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Trams are on the right track as transport bosses seal the deal



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Published Date: 15 May 2008
TRANSPORT bosses have agreed the deal which will bring trams back to the streets of the Capital.
Council chiefs and trams firm TIE announced they had successfully concluded negotiations with German and Spanish contractors, covering vehicles, track and other infrastructure.

And the price they agreed is £512 million – £14m more than originally
expected, and £1m more than reported in the Evening News on Monday.

The first tracks will be laid by September this year and the first tram is set to run in Edinburgh in July 2011.

Protracted contract negotiations and record low exchange rates against the euro have been blamed for the price rises.

In a statement, the council and TIE said the final contract negotiations had been conducted in "difficult and uncertain international economic conditions", combined with "an extremely heated UK construction sector".

The statement stressed the price remained within the £545m funding figure set for the project.

The tram tracks and overhead wires will be supplied by a consortium, Bilfinger Berger Siemens (BBS), whose members have been involved in the construction of over 30 urban transport schemes around the world.

The tram manufacturer, CAF, is best known in the UK as the company that provided the first train fleet for the Heathrow Express in a consortium with Siemens. It has recently supplied the trams to Seville's new tram system and has put into service a fleet of trains for Northern Ireland Railways.

TIE chairman Willie Gallagher said: "I'm pleased that these negotiations have now reached a successful conclusion.

"These pressures on costs are not isolated to the tram project. The fact is that every major construction project in Scotland and in the UK is and will be impacted by these exact same factors. We have sought to successfully deal with them now.

"From the start of the procurement process my team set out to drive a fair and hard bargain."

He said TIE had brought together an international project team with experience from all around the world.

And he added: "We look forward to building the Edinburgh tram project on time and on budget."

City council leader Cllr Jenny Dawe added: "I am delighted the intricate and tough negotiation period has reached a satisfactory conclusion. This has not been easy, particularly in the prevailing global economic situation, but I am confident we have a fair deal.

"We are now well on our way to delivering an excellent tram project for Edinburgh that will connect vital growth areas in the city and provide a first class modern, attractive and additional means of public transport."





The full article contains 438 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Amenemhat,

15/05/2008 12:10:59
Is this the Gordon Brown school of economics "it's the rest of the worlds fault that prices go up"
2

Niadh,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 12:11:55
I'll believe it'll be on time and budget when i see it.
I'll also expect the books to be audited by NAO.
I don't trust this lot not to try and fissle the figures to make it look good to the public.
3

Niadh,

edinburgh 15/05/2008 12:12:24
that should be fiddle
4

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 12:14:08
That's an increase of £14 million over roughly 14 days, or £1 million per day.

On that basis, by 2011 that could easily add another £900 million + to the total cost.

Trams = bunk
5

Bob 2,

15/05/2008 12:18:27
And he added: "We look forward to building the Edinburgh tram project on time and on budget."

oops...its already behind schedule

and as someone asked...

Has a fixed Price Contract been signed for this?

Amazing how the EN headline has changed from

"Costs rise as trams contract signed"
to
"Trams are on the right track as transport bosses seal the deal"

6

alex paterson,

At the moment in Sevilla 15/05/2008 12:32:24
Cant wait to see these beautiful pieces of engineering gliding through the City,i will make a point of coming over just to see them.
7

Optimus Prime,

Cybertron 15/05/2008 12:35:30
BUILD IT AND PEOPLE WILL COME.......
8

Bob 2,

15/05/2008 12:40:24
yip and see all the empty shops,

This is Princes Street...used to be Edinburghs main shopping street...now its Tack to Go.
9

Jenny MacArthur,

15/05/2008 12:42:23
Fantastic news. Anything that further winds up the moaning anti-tram whingers here just HAS to be great value for money. Listening to them whine makes life such a joy.
10

vote them out,

15/05/2008 12:44:50
Edinburgh Council tried to close 22 schools because of a shortfall in the council budget of £10 million.

This shower of wasters have spent an extra £14 million on accessories for their jumped up train set and they are celebrating.

11

vote them out,

15/05/2008 12:45:11

Take all the councillors that are in favour of the tram and tie them to the tracks in time for the grand opening only then would be money well spent.
12

Bob 2,

15/05/2008 12:46:08
but jenny what else would you have to moan about in your comments....welcome to the Commentors Club........
13

Steven P,

edinburgh 15/05/2008 12:50:23
Was anyone else of the opinion that these contracts and prices had been concluded ages ago - why wait until gbp/euro exchange rate is at historical lows?

Any of the pro-trammers care for a wager on the tram project coming in at gbp 514 million or even gbp 545 million? Very generous odds available.
14

Steven P,

edinburgh 15/05/2008 12:53:38
#6 Alex -
Wait a few years and you can come and see them in an East Lothian museum next to that other great white elephant of transport engineering - concorde.
15

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

, Newington 15/05/2008 12:58:56
"TIE chairman Willie Gallagher said: "I'm pleased that these negotiations have now reached a successful conclusion."

After Labour's halfwitted nonsense with Wembley, could someone please check *NOW* whether inflation has been addressed by the contract?
16

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

, Newington 15/05/2008 12:59:46
"TIE chairman Willie Gallagher said: "I'm pleased that these negotiations have now reached a successful conclusion."

After Labour's halfwitted nonsense with Wembley, could someone please check *NOW* whether inflation has been addressed by the contract?
17

Saloux,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 13:05:37
Another £14 million chucked down the drain - lunacy and all for what!!!
18

Padraig,

15/05/2008 13:13:17
Friend of Fernando Poo said "After Labour's halfwitted nonsense with Wembley, could someone please check *NOW* whether inflation has been addressed by the contract?"

Inflation and price escalation are what the "optimism bias" provision is intended to provide against. And the Department for Transport Guidelines commissioned by Alastair Darling while he was Transport Secretary (and before he warned the then Scottish Executive against going ahead with the trams)provided for light rail projects to carry a provision of 57% on top of the total cost to be 80% sure of coming in under budget. See http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/ltp/major/proceduresfordealingwithopti3687?page=1#a1003

But did tie build in 57%? Don't be silly - they would have scared off the politicians if they had done that!

Expect more cost overruns - or a much shorter line!

And forget the Granton Spur.
19

Bob 2,

15/05/2008 13:22:07
hopefully the price has been set at the current euro/GBP rate.

surely

20

Hibernia,

15/05/2008 13:22:11
#9 you are a well noted joke on here with your foolish comments.
21

Annoyingboi,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 13:28:23
This place is an absolute joke
22

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

15/05/2008 13:36:35
I love to read the tram grumbles too.
23

Loki - The Scourge of the Schemies,

EH1 - looking down on the tram route. 15/05/2008 13:38:08
#9 Fantastic news

It is indeed, Jenny.
I generally avoid public transport but will make a point of boarding the first service westbound on Princes Street to Edinburgh International Airport with a view to pointing my finger at and laughing at the whingeing hordes who will presumably refuse to use it on account of their principled and 'differently expert' views on the system.
24

Incandescent,

15/05/2008 14:01:03
#9 Jenny

Shush!
25

,

15/05/2008 14:04:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
26

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

15/05/2008 14:08:01
I was the one millionth person to click on it , and I won a bridie !
27

Exiledman,

Dublin 15/05/2008 14:08:37
You're all right...and all wrong. The trams will be late & overbudget and building them is horribly messy. But they'll be fab. Dublin has 2 lines (one being extended) & 6 more lines planned or in construction plus a metro about to be built. It already has a tunnel & an urban railway (ok the traffic is still crap and the tunnel is a mess but...) If Embra doesn't start now it'll fall further behind. Still, I wish we could power the trams on the s***e spoken by politicans...
28

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 14:10:08
"TIE announced they had successfully concluded negotiations with German and Spanish contractors, covering vehicles, track and other infrastructure."

So the main contractors are Spanish, German (and I believe also French).

Did any UK big players/contractors just have their estimates/tenders turned down, or did they smell a rat well in advance and just not submit any?

Hope this ridiculous project falls flat on its face about halfway through. At the next Local and Scottish parliamentary elections, the electorate should remember who dreamt up and who forced through this folly.
29

Leila,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 14:23:40
#27: You do realise that Dublin trams were built with EU money don't you? So that aspect isn't comparable with Edinburgh. And, was one of the justifications not reduction in congestion? Yet you say "the traffic is still crap" ???
30

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

15/05/2008 14:40:54
DID YOU KNOW that trams were invented by Robert Louis Stevenson in 1968.

The first tram system in the world ran from Duddingston Loch to Los Angeles and was colloqially known as the Guilty as Hell Railway.

Ronnie Corbett also was the first man to discover Ectoplasm.
31

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 14:44:51
#30 The Genuine Mario Antoinette

That's the Innocents Railway you're abusing you old Devil's Advocate.

Hope that the Ectoplasm wasn't all down the front of Ronnie's trousers?

32

Scotish Exile,

15/05/2008 14:46:12
I would like to know why the contracts seem to be priced in Euro's. The project is in the UK, our currency is Sterling, so the contractors should have been asked to price in Sterling, and the contractors should therfore take the risk in currency fluctuation.
33

megz,

glasgow 15/05/2008 14:46:38
#28 i doubt they will vote anyone out. I kept hearing that the majority of people in edinburhg didn't want the trams, yet they voted in those that did want the trams. So if it is true then its their own fault.

Personally i like the idea of a tram in principle, i just think that perhaps the money could have been better spent on schools and other services just now.

It could end up a white elephant like the millenium dome or people might really like it, could go either way.
34

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

15/05/2008 14:50:11
32 If i purchase something from a company in the eurozone, the cost will be shown in euros. Its as simple as that.
35

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

15/05/2008 14:50:44
33. I hope we get a White Elephant AND trams.
36

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

15/05/2008 14:51:27
32 or if you prefer, WE are buying THEIR services. not the other way round.
37

Billy Effluvia,

Paris, France 15/05/2008 14:53:35
... so are the trams going to be white, or is that just an expression? I think white trams would be sort of cool, particularly if they weren't covered in adverts.
38

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

15/05/2008 14:58:08
38 I think , and I'll leave you to your moans - here's mine - they will be that dirty maroon colour so loved by our city fathers. NOthing to do with football its just a grubby colour.
39

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 14:59:03
#33 megz

" doubt they will vote anyone out. I kept hearing that the majority of people in edinburhg didn't want the trams, yet they voted in those that did want the trams"

Megz, when the excess (i.e. the balance above the £545 million) which the City of Edinburgh Council will be responsible for finding and has to be paid, it can only come out of the Council Tax. God knows what the final bill will be, but let us suppose £1 billion, the town will have to find £455 million - bloody tough!!

I can't see anyone voting Labour, Green, or Lib Dem then.

40

Saloux,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 15:07:52
Why do people say that they look forward to getting the tram to the airport - it isn't going to the airport - a shuttle bus or something is going to take people to and from the airport to wherever this tram stop is going to be - really convenient!
41

megz,

Glasgow 15/05/2008 15:12:18
#39 If they face a whopping bill for council tax then it is their own fault for voting for a party that wanted the trams i have no sympathy for them. Hopefully that won't be the case though and it will come in on budget and time....you never know.
42

megz,

glasgow 15/05/2008 15:15:46
i would feel sorry for anyone affected that didn't bring it on themselves it must be said.
43

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 15:20:02
#41 Megz

Sorry Megz, it is behind schedule now and arguably over budget, it has gone up by £14 million in the last 14 days or £1 million per day. However, I am sure TIE will tell us these are just little glitches.

Let's see what the situation is in another year (very interesting I'm sure).

May I also raise the point that many voters just had no strong feeling for/against the trams and of course voted for political groups for good reasons other than just these damned trams.

Cheers,

Peter
44

Boy Wonder,

15/05/2008 15:26:44
Any bets on the price going up again and again over the next 2 years??
45

megz,

Glasgow 15/05/2008 15:32:59
Spose i could be being a bit harsh on the voters :). Essentially i do like the idea of a tram, but like i said they money would have been better being used for schools which are more important.
46

GGTTH#1,

15/05/2008 15:41:28
Boy wonder that would like betting on a peaceful turnout and dignity in defeat from the Rangers fans.

So eh....no.
47

PaulB,

15/05/2008 15:51:08
#40 the trams ARE going to the Airport - why do people keep insisting they won't be! Look at the trams website and look at the route map before you make these assertions! I can't wait until they are up and running - and hear all the calls for them to be extended to other areas of the city.
48

megz,

glasgow 15/05/2008 15:54:46
trams? i thought it was one tram or is it just one line with more than one tram on it?
49

,

15/05/2008 16:04:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
50

Leila,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 16:09:41
#47: because the trams won't actually stop at the Airport - they'll stop at an interchange at Gogar and then people will have to take a shuttle bus the rest of the way.
51

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 16:25:22
Leila #29 you say
#27: You do realise that Dublin trams were built with EU money don't you? So that aspect isn't comparable with Edinburgh."
Yes it is. The UK is a net contributor to the EU so an element of the Dublin trams were paid for via UK taxes. A high element of the Edinburgh trams is being paid for from UK taxes. The same thing and very comparable.
52

Jolly Jack Tar,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 16:37:01
"record low exchange rates against the euro have been blamed for the price rises" - So if the pound rises against the Euro we'll get it cheaper? As if!
53

PaulB,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 16:52:52
#50 Leila - where did you get that nonsense from? Prove it to me and I will believe you. otherwiswise stop writing complete drivel!
54

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 16:55:32
Peter #28
"So the main contractors are Spanish, German (and I believe also French).Did any UK big players/contractors just have their estimates/tenders turned down, or did they smell a rat well in advance and just not submit any?"

Under EU rules the contract would have to be put out euro-wide. If all the expertise in providing the best tram systems are in Spain and France then it makes sense that these are chosen. I'm not sure who the British tram manufacturers are. Bombardier at Derby are in the UK but like so many things these days are not a UK firm.
55

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 16:59:50
#54 Scallywag

Thanks for that Scallywag.

So it's just another EU stitch-up and another good reason to withdraw from Europe.
56

Robin Bankes,

Culross 15/05/2008 17:28:19
#50 Leila - because the trams won't actually stop at the Airport - they'll stop at an interchange at Gogar and then people will have to take a shuttle bus the rest of the way.

Have a look at the map. You will discover that the tram line DOES extend to the airport via Gogarburn (RBS)and the Ingliston Park & Ride.
57

Kirsty Boyd-Williamson,

New Town 15/05/2008 17:32:03
Does anyone know if the trams will have a separate First Class section?
58

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 17:48:29
#55 Not a european stitch up, just this countries inability to compete in certain markets, selling off our assets etc, etc but that a whole other post.
59

Whoppitt,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 17:56:54
For £512 million, we could have had the south suburban railway, the Corstophine spur extended to RBS and the airport, ane the Murrayfield to Granton spur connected to the mainline at Haymarket. Probably also the Waverley line to Eskbank and Penicuick.

What we get is the trams that will not improve transport in Edinburgh much as they will replace the existing excellent bus service.

The obvious is not necessarily the most likely - there is an existing mainline railway track running along the edge of Edinburgh Airport - but no station.
60

PaulB,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 17:58:20
Leila - I am still waiting - presumably this was a scare story from you. In which case please apologise for lying! THE TRAMS ARE GOING TO THE AIRPORT IN 2011 !!
61

Euan,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 18:29:00
Disgraceful.

The first word that springs to mind when this idiotic and shameful tram project comes to mind.

#10 has hit the nail on the head.

The amount of money being wasted here is disgusting.

The residents of Edinburgh are literally being shat on by TIE and certain lunatic members of the local council.

Vital, everyday services are being cut, schools are being closed and the City is facing bankruptcy, yet at the same time it always seems possible to find the extra millions to pour down the tram drain.

Heads should roll, people should be held accountable for this travesty.

Willie Gallagher - YOU SHOULD BE FIRST, RESIGN NOW.





62

Whoppitt,

15/05/2008 18:42:01
Let's not forget that the council are selling off the five-a-side football and cycling area at Meadowbank to pay for a refurbished stadium, yet managed to find £40m to pay for the new council offices.

We need a Boris in Edinburgh!
63

Leila,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 18:46:28
#60: this was a misunderstanding by me, I was in error and I accept that trams are scheduled to go to the airport. By the way, I don't do scare stories, and I don't intentionally lie.
64

Whoppitt,

15/05/2008 18:54:36
Leila - I also thought that they wern't going to the airport, and it took me a while on the web to be sure one way or the other.
65

Mallory,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 19:32:35
#23 Loki says "I generally avoid public transport but will make a point of boarding the first service westbound on Princes Street to Edinburgh International Airport"

So the Tram line ends up at the Main terminal does it?
66

Loki - The Scourge of the Schemies,

EH1 15/05/2008 19:45:18
#65 Mallory - So the Tram line ends up at the Main terminal does it?

Yes,near enough. On the way it will have stops at Gogarburn and the Ingliston Park & Ride.

From the Edinburgh Airport Master Plan:
"Tram
Edinburgh Airport is aware of the facilities that have to be provided to make the tram attractive to air passengers and this will form part of the work of the ASAS with TIE as the key stakeholder."
67

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 19:53:41
I find it disgusting that public officials have the power to squander/waste our money on these ridiculous 'jobs for the boys' projects.

Scotland is fast becoming a white elephant parading ground - Sponsored by the people hating Labour party and the Yellow Lib dems ....

Trams really suck(!) and it gives these sniveling little councillors a opportunity to cause more vengeful congestion so they can say how right they were about the congestion charge.
68

Euan,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 20:07:47
#67

Very well said.

These ignoramuses should do the right thing: step down from their posts NOW and hold their hands up and admit to us all what they really are - nothing more than money-squandering, greedy, selfish imposters who are driving this fine City into the ground.

69

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 20:24:24
#23 Loki

"I generally avoid public transport but will make a point of boarding the first service westbound on Princes Street to Edinburgh International Airport"

No chance Loki, the first tram will be totally occupied by Councillors, hooks, crooks, and bottlewashers.


70

Euan,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 20:28:03
#67

Very well said.

These ignoramuses should do the right thing: step down from their posts and hold their hands up and admit what they really are - nothing more than money-squandering, greedy, selfish imposters who are driving this fine City into the ground.

71

,

15/05/2008 20:31:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
72

Euan,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 20:45:54
Sorry, duplicate post there!
73

Euan,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 20:48:02
#71, Mario

Bain's the butchers, Stenhouse - quite simply the best mince pies in town!
74

Loki - The Scourge of the Schemies,

EH1 15/05/2008 20:49:41
69 No chance Loki, the first tram will be totally occupied by Councillors, hooks, crooks, and bottlewashers.

A quiet word at my club is usually enough to ensure that certain windows of opportunity open up. ;-}
75

Dr Itchifani Atischu,

Sunset Microsystems Inc 15/05/2008 20:57:00
Peoples of Scotland to be greatly proud of tram. Many city have tram and make great speed. I very much pleasantly looking forward to tram from airport. Will mean when visiting my R&D center in Scotland Scottish secretary no more need to drive to airport to take me to company house in Edinburgh. Give her more time to prepare our spa bath after the long tiring journeys I am having.
76

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

15/05/2008 21:57:56
Everyone knows im a radical militant vegetarian green nazi.
77

THE BPRENTICE,

15/05/2008 23:06:40
.....after 33 years in business Walkers Ironmongery on leith Walk is closing down thanks to the disaster of the tramwork...to quote one of the officials that attended a very recent meeting with the Leith residents group - he said a main artery has been cut off...people can't get to the businesses very easily and they are suffering from it.

There is talk about some help now for the businesses in Leith Walk - BUT they were too proud for too long and with hindsight, they should have united a lot sooner against the devastation to their businesses.
78

Bertie The Bat,

16/05/2008 06:26:01
Let the train take the strain.
79

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 16/05/2008 10:52:35
#74 Loki - The Scourge of the Schemies

"A quiet word at my club is usually enough to ensure that certain windows of opportunity open up."

So Loki, which category do you belong to, Councillor, hook, crook, or bottlewasher - I ommitted the 'tin basins', so you might be one of them?

In any event, keep your complimentary ticket, it should be worth a lot on E-Bay after the tram system is closed down.

By the way, I admire someone who is - "The Scourge of the Schemies", now that's an orginisation I'd really like to join.
80

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 16/05/2008 11:25:06
#74 Loki - The Scourge of the Schemies

Loki,

re my last post at #79, I have made the sweeping assumption that the tram system will be completed, but God knows when and at what cost.

Cheers,

Peter
81

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 16/05/2008 12:19:24
#67 Name one city, anywhere in the world, which has closed down a modern tram system because it was such a disaster - many cities that have them want to or are expanding them.
82

eric,

lothian 16/05/2008 12:25:47
can we have a subway like glasgow now to go with it.wont hold my breath
83

geekpie,

forfar 16/05/2008 17:26:51
any tram shortfall could be made up by reintroducing the bridge tolls. Driving is cheaper in real terms than it was in 1997. No wonder there are so many cars.

 

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