Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

Endinburgh Council
 
 
Saturday, 7th November 2009 Change Date

Sorry, your back garden belongs to us!

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the Edinburgh Evening News site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 16 August 2008
A COUPLE have had their garden cut off by a 7ft fence to make way for a car park – after first being told to bring in the washing.
Maureen and Graham Muir had always feared it could happen but were not quite prepared for the reality of the large fence cutting off around two-thirds of their lawn.

Mrs Muir had been enjoying a cup of tea at the bottom of the garden at the couple's home in Lady Road when three men arrived out of the blue and told her they were reclaiming the land, which belonged to a property next door.

Mr Muir, 51, said: "They told her to take her washing in as they were claiming the back garden. She was understandably very upset and was in tears.

"We couldn't believe they could take it away. We've been looking after the garden for nearly 20 years. Now the builder has put a fence up through our garden."

The couple, who run the Ardgowan guesthouse, bought the property 19 years ago but say they were unaware at the time that the garden did not belong to them.

When they discovered this ten years later, they say they were told not to worry, as the land, near the former St Margaret's School, had little value.

But now Ashford Property Development, which bought the land two years ago, has applied for permission to build a hotel with car parking spaces.

Mr Muir said: "As far as we knew the garden had always been part of the house. It was only when we thought of building an extension that we looked at the title deeds and found it actually belonged to the property next door.

"When it came up for sale, we offered to buy it but were refused. We thought it was the right thing to do, but I wish we hadn't said anything now."

The Muirs, who have four children, have now appealed to their solicitor for help. Nigel Griffiths, MP for Edinburgh South, has also taken up their case, writing to the city council arguing that Ashford Property Development did not have permission to erect the fence in a conservation area.

Mr Muir said they received the letter on Friday, August 4, and the men arrived on Monday, August 7, to put up the fence.

Ashford Property has applied for permission to transform the former St Margaret's School for Girls into a 115-bedroom hotel. The firm modified its plans after it was refused planning permission in March.

A spokesman said there was no dispute over the ownership of the land.

He said: "Ashford's property deeds clearly show the boundary limits and there has never been any evidence or suggestion from any party that these are not correct.

"Since taking ownership of the land, Ashford has extended considerable goodwill to Mr Muir, whose guesthouse clients have used the access from Lady Road as an overspill car park."

A city estate agent said that it was extremely important to check boundaries when buying a property.

He said the Muirs may have a right of access to the land, as they have been using it for more than ten years.




The full article contains 537 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 16 August 2008 10:42 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

alex paterson,

edinburgh 16/08/2008 12:26:45
A bit rough after the couple have been there for almost 20 years,but he did no it could happen at some time,on the bright side its less grass to cut.
2

,

16/08/2008 12:32:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

,

16/08/2008 12:36:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

Casey Beer,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 12:55:12
A good, another non-story!

So a couple has knowingly used someone else's land as their own for at least 10 years & now they get upset when the rightful owner reclaims it.
5

The faithful=,

Gracemount 16/08/2008 12:57:40
Had something similar 5 yrs ago about boundary fence that had been up for 11 years.Think some scottish law about if you look after the land and the boundary has been there for more than ten years it cant be reclaimed.It needs a lawyer but think this is for sure a scottish law.
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 12:59:01

Just shows, check the small print, and if the couple had been in the right, they could of told them where to go in NO uncertain terms!
7

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 16/08/2008 13:04:39
4 Casey Beer

Sometimes the so-called "non-stories' are the most interesting.

We can't get bogged down in politics and council shenanigans all the time.

This was a good way to start my day.
8

Casey Beer,

16/08/2008 13:10:13
#7 Fair point. I'm glad you're having a nice start.
9

john3,

16/08/2008 13:15:07
What did Ordnance Survey show? Their solicitor at the time of purchase should have known and any responsible buyer would have checked their boundaries.
10

ScotsUltraNationalist,

Nova Scotia 16/08/2008 13:39:04
Edinburgh needs car parks. Badly.
11

Vlad Tepes,

Snagov 16/08/2008 13:44:37
#9. OS detail though would have been no guarantee though solicitor should have checked Tile. Under the current Register of Title practice (not here 20 years ago)the legal extent of the boundaries would have been guaranteed and clearly shown on the Ordnance based Title Plan. Furthermore the discrepancy would have been highlighted by the Land Register if the solicitor had sought a pre-registration report from them.
12

Climate change is a fraud,

16/08/2008 14:40:20
So the garden doesn't belong to them. What are they complaining about?

Do they have difficulty understanding the concept of private property?
13

Who let the dogs out?,

16/08/2008 14:44:24
If i live in princess street gardens for 20 years, can I claim its mine?
14

The Judge,

16/08/2008 15:08:10

The Muirs, who have four children, have now appealed to their solicitor for help. Nigel Griffiths, MP for Edinburgh South, has also taken up their case, writing to the city council arguing that Ashford Property Development did not have permission to erect the fence in a conservation area.

Well at least Nigel will be "earning" his £250k salary and expense this week.
15

alex paterson,

edinburgh 16/08/2008 15:08:31
#2
Know,sorry about that.
16

Statsman,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 15:20:25
All your back gardens are belong to us.
17

Joanna,

Cambs, England 16/08/2008 15:21:29
I really don't get what their problem is. They knew the garden wasn't their property and even tried to buy it, which further proves that they knew it wasn't theirs.

Subject to planning permission the owner(s)can do what they like with their property, including stopping other people from using it.

Nice litte earner for the solicitor tho'!
18

Hamish Scott,

16/08/2008 15:36:52
"Sorry, your back garden belongs to us!"

IT'S NOT THEIRS.
19

Highland Property Bubble,

Inverness 16/08/2008 16:20:57
And the winner is.................
Their solicitor.
20

wolfette,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 16:47:18
#5 - only if the rightful owners or their heirs can't be traced. In this case, the rightful owners were clear.
21

Scotish Exile,

16/08/2008 17:19:07
Its not their fecking land, so get on with it, and EEN, stop printing these non stories
22

Kitti Kat,

Newtown Square 16/08/2008 17:58:51
Rather than fuss about something that isn't going to change, why don't these people just have a nicer fence installed on their side of the property or have tall shrubs planted? Probably cheaper than legal fees and easier on the nerves. The car park will most likely win and since the fence the builders installed is sort of tacky looking, why not have a really nice looking fence ?
23

Mr Fuzzy,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 18:20:52
#13
Squatting is only legal in England - Harry Hallowes won himself a 800 square-metre plot in Hampstead Heath.

They are in the middle of a row of terraced houses with a communal back wall. On the other side of the wall, there is another property at the back which is orientated at a different angle to theirs. So it looks like their house developers didn't update the land registry and the existing owners are just taking advantage of the situation to expand. Even Google maps seems to be confused as to where exactly Lady Road ends.
24

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 19:25:25
# 14 - yep, I've seen wee Nigel's pathetic MP letters too - they always finish 'Naturally, I am concerned about this and would be grateful if something could be done'. Er, in this case, Nigel - NOTHING. The Muirs might have had 20 years of free use of it but the land doesn't belong to them. End of. Unlike the fraudulent claims for constituency office expenses he weaseled himself out of!
25

Joanna,

Cambs, England 16/08/2008 19:44:35
Are the chairs in the picture his? Maybe the MP and the solicitor should just ask if the owner of the land could pass those back over the fence.

That's a case that they might have a chance of winning. :D :D
26

stuartyboy,

edinburgh 16/08/2008 20:05:18
Why this company want to build yet another hotel
is beyond me,there are more than enough hotels in
the area as it is.I can sympathise with this couple
but this is the sort of dirty tricks these companies
pull,it's all to do with money,and power mad people,
now regardless of the rights and wrongs of this case
and whom the land belongs to,i'm sure a bit more tact
could have been applied.
27

The Judge,

16/08/2008 20:42:33
#27 Nigel is bending the rules not breaking them, no fraud is being committed.

I'd love to know how much his sisters trust fund has made over the last 10 years and how it got a "change of use" from retail to office space from the city council. If only the local media could spend the same amount time and effort on that as they did with David Mcletchie's taxi bill.
28

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

16/08/2008 21:37:40
#2 - No
29

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

16/08/2008 21:40:21
If they have been looking after the land for 20 years, then they should clain legal entitlement to it. See a lawyer.
30

THE BPRENTICE,

16/08/2008 22:11:52
#3 classic!!
31

Bravetart,

16/08/2008 22:14:11
I hope these people get a lawyer as if they have had their garden fenced or walled in, as it looks like in the picture then after 10 years it is theirs.

Happened to my mum's next door neighbours who took over a vacant piece of land next to them. It is now included in the deeds of the house.

So good luck to them.
32

Candyfloss,

Livingston 16/08/2008 22:16:27
I emphasise with them this has happened to me in a way.
Garden looks onto school and a new extension has been built and now where there was a path there is a horrible metal fence that I have to look at.
33

indune1,

Canada 17/08/2008 04:32:01

These people are plain bl**dy stupid or trying to play the court of public opinion.

I hope their lawyer is family.
34

Julian.,

edinburgh 17/08/2008 04:35:45
"A COUPLE have had their garden cut off by a 7ft fence"

And how exactly is it their garden? Sloppy journalism.
35

donald,

glasgow 17/08/2008 05:45:18
It is true that if you put a fence around land you can claim it after ten years. This happened all over the East End of Glasgow by persons with no connection to Labour Cooncillors. They just happend to be born with this knowledge.
36

jarmon,

17/08/2008 07:30:31
So who is in charge of ashford development properties--mr. scrooge? I think it is poor public relations and downright greed to take that little piece of property from those folks.Remind me to never stay in one of their hotels.
37

Charlie S,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 08:58:04
#29
(History lesson)
This was a Hotel before it was a school
it was a corner property and and the house to the left.
then they built an extension linking them together.
38

The-Doctor,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 09:03:24
It is great that Griffiths can help - it took him 4 weeks to respond to a letter I mailed him about a problem I was having with an Edinburgh School. Thankfully my MSP was able to help, as Griffiths was a waste of space.
39

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 09:52:08
#30, you're right, of course - it was a muddle, not a fiddle. And I'm sure his sister really appreciated the 'treats' paid for by the taxpayer. But did he ever pay the money back? And before wee Nigel makes a complete @r5e of himself wittering to Das Kooncil (AH - Too late!) about Ashford 'erecting a fence in a conservation area', somebody should point out that the (temporary) Herras fencing in the fotie is commonly used to prevent idiots wandering into construction sites.

40

,

17/08/2008 12:39:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
41

Anonym,

17/08/2008 15:23:48
"A COUPLE have had their garden cut off by a 7ft fence"

And how exactly is it their garden? Sloppy journalism.

(37 Julian.,edinburgh 17/08/2008 04:35:45)

Not so Jules. Part of the garden IS indisputably theirs, and now there is a big new fence where their land ends and the disputed land begins... given that the fence was not there before, I put it to you that the statement you feel is 'sloppy journalism' is actually rather precise and to the point.
42

Jenny MacArthur's Humvee,

17/08/2008 18:08:53
Blame it on the trams, if that fails Kenny Richey.
43

,

17/08/2008 20:20:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
44

Julian.,

edinburgh 17/08/2008 23:23:13
#44 Anonym. Of cousre when you choose a name like that, some might suspect you are the writer of the article.

But sorry, I disagree.

The statement clearly implies that the whole thing belongs to them. Both the bit before and after the fence. Anyone reading this would surely come to that false conclusion.

Misleading journalism is probably more to the point.
45

Rachman,

18/08/2008 09:38:50
Time for a lawyer to comment. You can sit on someone else's land until the cows come home, won't make it yours. If you register a title to it, or your existing title is capable of including it (by being vague) then ten years will do it.

In this case, it looks like neith applies, so the original owners get to keep what is theirs, seems fair enough to me.

Edinburgh house prices are still rising.
46

Coach,

Lasswade 18/08/2008 11:18:53
Classic case of NIMBY
#46 and his meetings and web site.
Try buying a hoose in Wester Hailes or Muirhouse or Craigmillar.
47

Pazuzu,

18/08/2008 11:22:34
I live in Porty, does the beach belong to me?
48

Douglas,

Bathgate 18/08/2008 11:38:27
Only if your name's Sandy McFloater. :o)
49

,

18/08/2008 11:59:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
50

Paul Voltairé,

20/08/2008 12:23:22
I'm back

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.