Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Friday, 9th January 2009 Change Date

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the Edinburgh Evening News site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

SNP doesn't know where to sit under Thatcher's shadow



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 28 August 2008
ALEX SALMOND was furious when the media seized on comments in an interview which appeared to suggest he had some sympathy for Thatcherism. He even called a radio phone-in programme to denounce the idea. "Total tosh," he declared.
But the interview has revived claims that for all its left-wing rhetoric on Iraq, nuclear weapons and policies like scrapping prescription charges, the SNP has a fundamentally right-wing economic agenda.

The First Minister spoke in the interview a
bout why Scotland "didn't take to Lady Thatcher" and said: "We didn't mind the economic side so much. But we didn't like the social side at all."

Labour immediately condemned the remarks, with leadership contender Iain Gray arguing the Iron Lady's economic policies had been devastating for Scottish communities.

"Thatcher's economics had at their core the belief that mass unemployment was not just a price worth paying but necessary in a modern economy," he said.

But a defensive Mr Salmond told radio listeners: "I was commenting on why Scots, in particular, were so deeply resentful of Thatcher and I think here her social message, epitomised in the unfair poll tax and her comments of 'no such thing as society', cut against a very Scottish grain of social conscience.

"That doesn't mean that the nation liked her economic policies, just that we liked her lack of concern for social consequences even less."

Given Scotland's deep-rooted hostility to Thatcherism – the main reason why there is still so little sign of a Tory recovery north of the Border – it is not surprising the First Minister should want to remove any suspicion of sympathy.

But it's not that he was trapped into making his comment. In the interview – with Tory blogger Iain Dale for the magazine Total Politics – it was Mr Salmond who first mentioned Lady Thatcher.

One Labour source says: "It wasn't a slip – it's what he believes. He was sitting, having a cosy chat with a rising star of the Tory Party who isn't a real journalist. He must have felt very comfortable and he just came out with it."

Mr Salmond used to describe himself as a socialist and the party has chosen the label "social democratic", but the SNP's focus on independence as its raison d'etre means it has always included people of diverse ideological persuasions, from Glasgow MSP Bill Kidd on the left to Enterprise Minister Jim Mather on the right.

The SNP took great delight in outflanking Labour on the left when it announced the phasing out of prescription charges – an appropriate tribute to NHS founder, the left-wing Nye Bevan, on the 60th anniversary of the health service, as Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon pointed out.

And it has also scrapped the graduate endowment fee which students had to pay after they completed their course.

A senior Labour MSP says: "The SNP has managed to convince a large section of Scots that they are more left wing than Labour.

"But being relaxed about Thatcher's economic policies does let the cat out of the bag. And it's consistent with their pro-business, low-tax stance.

"The SNP wants Irish levels of taxation and Scandinavian levels of public services, but there is a contradiction there and they can't quite make up their minds."

The SNP has cut rates for 150,000 small businesses, reportedly boosting their profit margins by up to a third.

The business community also liked the decision to scrap bridge tolls and a survey earlier this year found 57 per cent of businesses thought the SNP was doing a good or excellent job.

Opposition MSPs argue even the council tax freeze, though a popular move in itself, reflects a right-wing agenda – opting for lower taxation against higher spending on public services.

The tight budget settlement for local government has led to controversial cuts in council services.

The opposition points out the SNP is eager to promote "small government" by abolishing or merging quangos.

And they say Mr Salmond has taken a tough line against local government workers' demands for a pay increase over the current 2.5 per cent offer.

A senior Labour source says: "Whereas at UK level Labour talked right to act left because it's centre-right aspirational voters who decide elections, in Scotland – which is traditionally left of centre – the SNP talks left to act right."

The SNP plays down its relationship with the Conservatives, but Tory MSPs played a crucial role in helping the minority government get its budget through the Scottish Parliament, with business rate cuts speeded up as part of the deal.

And after last year's local elections, the SNP lifted its ban on going into coalition with the Tories on Scotland's councils.

One SNP insider says: "That was a bigger sea-change than many people realised at the time. The Tories were no longer the bogeymen, we could do deals with them."

And the insider adds: "The party has not tied up its economic and social justice arguments. There are a lot of short-term fixes going on. We need to do a bit more thinking."

In his interview, Mr Salmond may have inadvertently highlighted the tensions – some would say contradictions – inherent in SNP policy. But it's strange how, 18 years after she quit the scene, Margaret Thatcher can still haunt Scottish politics.





The full article contains 893 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 28 August 2008 9:57 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 12:33:59
The best way to govern a country is to give people responsibility for their own actions and stop meddling and interfering in everyone's lives.

Until the SNP start doing that rather than carrying on stupid labour policies with alacrity, the better for all.
2

Bigwull,

edinburgh 28/08/2008 12:36:39
Oh the headline says sit, I must have misread it, 1&2 would the last tories left in Scotland GTF
3

capy,

embra 28/08/2008 12:41:03
Im not happy with what Salmond said re Thatcher.But in saying that, I was a self employed driver untill i was forced off the road by increased tax on fuel and vehicle.
So i am happy to see tax come down. What is wrong with helping buisiness and low tax. Labour has done nothing to re balance taxation in Britain. 10% tax rate anybody. Labour will use these remarks to beat the SNP with. Fair enough, but at least they do not invite Thatcher round for tea and scones.
4

tog,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 12:42:18
This is all a little ironic. Back in the eighties the SNP did not like the Tories economic policies but as a party that has always been fairly socially conservative were probably happier with Tory social policies. Now it is the reverse position. The truth is the SNP are a populist cultural nationalist party who will embrace any policy that helps them achieve independence. The SNP is a broad church with some libertarian right wingers like Mike Russell , social conservatives like Fergus Ewing and left wingers like Alex Neill and Kenny Macaskill and Eck doing a good job of keeping it all together. Popualism is difficult to sustain though, otherwise all parties would just embrace populist policies.
5

Porty Nat,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 12:43:11
Total mince, Iain. You need to get yourself some better SNP sources - and stop hanging articles on the comments of your 'senior Labour sources'. How about some attribution? It's not like they've said anything which might put careers in jeapordy - that's if they even spoke to you at all, of course!

All these unattributed quotes don't make you look like an insider - it just shows you up as lazy, uncurious and slanted. Must do better.
6

Calum Crubag,

28/08/2008 12:45:12
Thatcher was a maniac. Funny how Blair has openly admired her and her politics.

The SNP should do their own thing irrespective of whether some see them as 'left' or 'right'. Though, with Labour and Tory moving the political spectrum so far to the right, it's fair that Scotland as a nation should realign to something more constructive and progressive.

Leave right wing Labour/Tory and their sleaze and warmongering in the past.
7

Alan B,

28/08/2008 12:46:37
The scotsman seems to be going for gutter politics.

Salmond was asked by a journalist why scotland hates thatcher. He answers what he thinks is the motivation of the dislike of thatcher. Rightly or wrongly he viewed scots as not liking thatcher as predominately due to her social policies.

Things like the poll tax etc (possibly the rejection of the scottish assembly with the undemocratic referendum).

That somehow gets turned into Salmond liking Thatcher. What planet and what intelligence do these journalists have?

It is a difficult question to answer why others dislike someone. Remember the question was on what Salmond thinks scotland thinkgs not what his personal views are.

In relation to economic policies. Did scotland not like thatcher economic policies or their implementation? It is difficult to seriously say that scotland disliked the mass of thatcherite economic policies, when scotland has overwhelmingly voted for blair (and brown) who were big admirers of thatcher and implemented most of her economic ideology.

Labour have accepted that industry is better in the private sector and have not rolled back the privatisations in any big way. In fact there is more talk of them privatising things, with the exception of railtrack.

Labour have accepted an interest rates are the weapon against inflation and have adopted a right wing policy of making the BOE independent that thatcher would not do. There has been no return to the wages policies of the 70s. No return to Keynes economic policies. No return to capital controls or even quantitive controls on credit.

Labour have continued with the thatcherite economic policy of loading indirect taxes.

Labour have continued with home ownership and have not done much for council housing.

Labour have not rolled back the democratisation and other rules round trade unions.

So it is completely hypocritical for labour to be trying to make hay with this and shows how low as a party they have sunk.
8

Alan B,

28/08/2008 12:47:04
Maybe labour should invite thatcher round to tea again.
9

Cappo Del Monte,

28/08/2008 12:48:02
#3

Maggie was a great leader, one of the best this country has ever seen.
Hail Maggie j
10

Alan B,

28/08/2008 12:49:15
#tog

Back in the 80s labour did not like Thatcherite economic policies but adopted most of them in power under Blair and Brown.
11

Howard Moon,

28/08/2008 12:51:04
Agreed Porty Nat. I'm not an SNP voter, but this article is absolute rubbish, as Mr Swanson knows fine well. If the best Johnston Press can do to stem its horrendous advertising and circulation decline is print tripe about Chris Hoy being a true red white and blue Brit and Salmond being the true heir of Thatcher, it's in real trouble.

And since when was being critical of the war in Iraq and against nuclear weapons being stored in Scotland 'left wing rhetoric'?
12

Merouane,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 12:51:37
#8. "That somehow gets turned into Salmond liking Thatcher. What planet and what intelligence do these journalists have?"

Planet Labour. Ian is intelligent enough, but he has a job to do and the News has an agenda to push.
13

Vivas,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 12:55:16
Will the last political journalist left at The Northbrit/Evening NaeNews please turn out the lights. I'm sure Johnston Press can't afford so many salaries going out the door just to reheat SLAB press releases.... So heres some free advice, just get SLAB to fax over whatever they want printed that day and hire some trainnee on 18K PA to attach the copy to that days edition. Save The Northbrit a bl00dy fortune that would and without any degradation of current journalistic standards !
14

Alan B,

28/08/2008 13:00:06
Another issue regarding whether scotland disliked thatcher for social policy reason or economic, where you draw the line between the 2.

For instance when the EU introduced the european social chapter, it is really economic policy. Is the poll tax which Salmond classified as a social policy not an economic policy as it is a tax.

The problem for a polician which genuinely tries to answer a quesion is that it is then open season on journalist and political opponents to, deliberately misinterpret what someone is actually saying.

That is probably why politics has decended into blairism of sofa politics and not atually discussing policy.
15

Cappo Del Monte,

28/08/2008 13:00:43
#2
Hi petrolskull
you have been quiet of late, been on hols?
hope it was good
16

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

28/08/2008 13:08:17
Thatcher said "There's no such thing as society" in repsonse to some dimwit claiming that "society" would pay for some half-baked project. In context, Thatcher was saying that "society" ddoesn't have any money, only taxpayers do. I think most Scots would go along with that.

As for the accusation that the SNP are "right-wing". The Socialist Nationalist Party wouldn't know right-wing if they found it in their soup.
17

Calum10,

28/08/2008 13:16:42
Groundhog Day for the Hootsmon press and it's dullifying Anti-SNP rhetoric.

PS Still no apology for the Hootsmon lies over Chris Hoy.
18

Tynietiger,

28/08/2008 13:54:20
If anyone read the article re Thatcher, in very next sentence Alex Salmond rubbished Thatcher's economic policies.

Also unfair to blame SNP for Council Cuts (Edinburgh received twice rate of inflation increase) when current administration inherited a budget shortfall.

On Council pay curb SNP in Scotland offerring 2.5% Labour in London offering 2.4%

Scottish government is constrained by lowest ever post devolution "block grant" from London at a time when
UK Treasury benefiting from North Sea oil tax windfall.
19

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 13:59:39
#7:

Margaret Thatcher was most certainly not a maniac. Blair was a maniac, so is Brown. And so are the vast majority of their stupid band of morons they have the cheek to call a political party. Blair aligned himself to Thatcher for one reason and one reason only---so that he would appear more palatible to the electorate.

Stupid labour policies bear absolutely no resemblance to Tory policy in any manner, shape or form. The labour party in general have a far lower level of intellect than the average Tory and as such are only capable of knee-jerking their way through power. They take notice of extremist lunatics and base policy decisions on their rantings. They get their priorities wrong, they try to ban their way out of issues and to hell with freedom of choice. They increase taxes under false pretences and waste the money. They embrace mind-numbing political correctness and try to impose their ridiculous ideas on everyone else. And they collectively would have difficulty running their own baths, let alone a country.

They have ruined this country over the years and there are many indications that the SNP are following in their footsteps on quite a few issues.

#3:

GTF indeed??? The likes of you don't deserve the vote pal---and in a proper, meritocratic society, you would not be allowed anywhere near a polling station. And learn some grammar whilst you are about it.
20

Team Scotland,

FC UK No! 28/08/2008 14:01:37
There has been a shift to the 'right' in economic terms by every UK party. The most dramatic shift has been that of the Labour party. The obsession with this and other organs with pinning this entirely on the SNP is simply shorthand for -

"They were meant to be rubbish and it's not fair!"

The shift towards 'Neo-liberalism' by the body politic of particularly the USA and UK is well documented. What is less discussed is the relentless shift towards authoritarianism. The SNP has moved a little but in the main the other parties have repositioned round the SNP's version of Social Democracy.

If anything UK politics is now to the right of the USA insomuch as there are still mainstream leftists on the political stage in the USA when in the UK those few that still exist are not being replaced.

This has political dangers in the current economic climate. Various attempts are being made to look more accurately at the political spectrum. One such effort is the Political Compass. The link below shows the dramatic lurch to the right of the Labour party in the last 36 years.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/enPartiesTime.gif

More importantly than an economic shift in my view, it also shows a lurch towards authoritarianism. Now that a long recession looms, interventionist politics will make a return. The old parties of the Left (New Labour / Neo Liberal) used to be libertarian but are no longer. In a military state such as the USA this raises the prospect of Military Keynesianism, using war (plunder) to boost their economy. New Labour as an authoritarian party drifting back to the left will, as now, copy the USA. The consequence if we do not stay awake is Fascism.
21

Traquir , Alba,

28/08/2008 14:02:27
The Unionist rag the Scotsman should be sued
for gross misrepresentation by Chris Hoy & Alex Salmond.
Their blind Unionist sycophancy masquerading as journalism has been exposed as nothing more
than biased utter garbage.

Their two "major" "scoops" for which they have penned
copious articles in the last week have been
exposed as completely artificial concoctions that
spin lies and slander in some feeble and desperate
attempt to save this rotting Union from it's
natural fate.

Story 1 :
"Chris Hoy: Scottish team in Olympics would be 'ridiculous'"
see - tinyurl.com/6e3xov

Today's Daily Record
"Scotland can stand alone at Olympics.. with enough investment, says Chris Hoy"
"Scotland could form a world-class team - with the right investment in sports."
"I feel a bit upset that I have been quoted as saying the idea of a Scottish Olympic team is ridiculous."
"If and when a Scottish team was put together, I would be delighted to represent Scotland in the Olympic Games."

see - tinyurl.com/6apykg

Story 2 :
"Alex Salmond: Scotland 'didn't mind' Thatcher economics - SCOTSMAN.COM EXCLUSIVE"
see - tinyurl.com/6mh9rt
Ian Dale the interviewer stated -
"Quite how Labour has managed to spin Salmond's remarks about Thatcher in the way that it has is quite astonishing - but the Scottish media has such a Labour bias it makes English newspapers look positively balanced by comparison. Every single Scottish media outlet is biased against the SNP."
see - tinyurl.com/5n2r6f

The Unionistas of course are so blind they will still
deny that there is substantial bias in the press -
apparently they enjoy the fruits of a completely
slanted playing field - Democracy British Style.

Speaking of bias when are the Scottish Papers going
to report on the major North Sea oil story from
over 3 months ago.

"'North Sea oil will last for 100 years'"
- tinyurl.com/54wl8e
"North Sea oil 'will last for another half century'"
- tinyurl.com/6ml3np

Saor Alba
22

DaveK,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 14:12:20
Didn't Alba make cheap music players for Argos in the 80's?
23

Tynietiger,

28/08/2008 14:15:01
Traquair

All very well posting on these sites but constant letters to the press is required.
24

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 14:18:59
21 Team Scotland
Neo liberalism is inevitable if you are in an EU of 27 countries. The freedom of movement people and capital therein prevents any one member departing from this model significantly as it would render its economy vulnerable to the competition of others.
25

Traquir , Alba,

28/08/2008 14:22:18
24 Tynietiger

You are correct the blogs alone is not
enough to rectify the Unionist bias in the Scottish
press. I am additionally following other avenues
in addition to the blogs to build up pressure.

Slàinte mhor
26

Ugly George,

edinburgh 28/08/2008 14:23:38
21 Team Scotland
Political Compass - is this the group containg the likes of John Cruddas MP? If you read the pronouncements of Cruddas you observe that he is either deluded fantasist or (perhaps more likely) he is seeking to gain power in the Labour party by sucking up to the trade unions and acting as their mouthpiece.
27

"Hoots" Fandango,

28/08/2008 14:31:36
No wonder Edinburgh is "least happiest" in the UK. Having to read peesh like this every day would give you the dry black burning boke.
28

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 28/08/2008 14:32:09
Alex Salmon set out years ago to re-align the SNP with a so called socialist spin in order to steal the Labour vote by kidding on the party had changed from its roots as Tartan Tories. The fact is he has succeeded in winning a slim majority of seats over Labour last May therefore it would suggest he has won over enough traditional Labour voters in their central belt heartlands as well as conning other floatng voters throughout Scotland whose interest in politics rests mainly on the sound bite during election times. In truth its a gey sad reflection on the voting public at large but thats how it is I'm afraid. Its will only be when the gNATS policies (sorry proposals) fail to materialise or come unstuck due to uncosted budgetting that people will eventually awaken to reality again.

We know the "road to damascus" is a long and twisting road but whilst we've still got guys like Tavish Scott around then hope will spring eternal. Bring on the LibDem revolution!
29

Porty Nat,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 14:35:37
#29 - I must say, Galen, it takes some chutzpah to refer to a rival party as gNATS, when your own is led by a Clegg.
30

Merouane,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 14:35:57
#28. Yes, there's definitely room in the market for a politically neutral non-reactionary local paper for Edinburgh.
31

"Hoots" Fandango,

28/08/2008 14:36:01
Liberal for Life

"Whilst we've still got guys like Tavish Scott around then hope will spring eternal. Bring on the LibDem revolution!"

Yer having a laugh no?
32

"Hoots" Fandango,

28/08/2008 14:37:24
31

Nobody would buy it.

Regarding this paper, I get better information reading my tea leaves.
33

Penicuik Laddie,

28/08/2008 15:36:55
Is this the same Labour Party who is slagging Salmond off who wined and dined the old bat at Number 10 and then set aside £3m for her state funeral.
People in glass houses... and once Miliband takes over watch as Labour goose step even further to the right than the current bunch of right wing tories.
34

Linda,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 15:41:32
Excuse me but were Liberals not part of the last failed administration which introduced Student Graduate Endowment loans and wouldn't say boo to Westminster in case it upset London.

Tavish Scott is more of a Unionist than the other two Labour contenders just as Iain Grey is more tied to LOndon than the other two Labour hopefuls.
35

Team Scotland,

FC UK No! 28/08/2008 15:43:17
Ugly George,
#25 Neolib

It certainly increases the pressure to conform. To me economics is 'housekeeping' and I am not wedded to any particular model. If the conditions change and a different economic model is the best fit, then so be it. It is social policy that defines a culture and for me that is the battleground. My present concern is what happens during a long recession (depression?) when a largely libertarian Western Europe moves to the left? The consequences for the more authoritarian cultures such as the UK have the potential be unpleasant.


#27 Political Compass –

I have no idea. I stumbled across it looking for a more modern expression of political leanings. I do not like traditional 'right' and 'left' as they lack a dimension. Of those I have seen the Political compass seems to be the best attempt. If there is a better one I would be interested to know.
36

Linda,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 15:44:20
Also how about article on Gordon Brown's attempts at Britishness, more union flag waving than the BNP but still tries to appeal to Middle England by flying by flying St George's flag at Downing Street and praising Paul Gascoigne's goal for England against Scotland as the finest goal he has ever seen.
37

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 28/08/2008 15:55:19
Perhaps Ian could tell us the point of this story, after all it isn't new, it doesn't cover anything from anybody that hasn't been said before, so could it be Ians not so subtle effort to help his pals in the Labour party?

Labour sources, SNP insider, pretty sloppy stuff at that.

Why havn't any of the union press seen fit to print the link to the article so as to let people make up their own minds? their not scared are they?
38

Merouane,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 16:34:49
#33. I'd buy it. Sure plenty other folk would as well.
39

Alan B,

28/08/2008 16:50:31
#Team Scotland

One area I would question of your analysis is it right or left to be authoritarian and conversely is it right or left to be libertarian.

In economic terms the left is socialist that support pulic ownership of the means of production and the right capitalist.

Both economic groups socialist and capitalist have authoritarian leaders over the yrs.

To me the right is about small government not interfering in peoples lives. In its extreme it is anarchism.

If we live in a liberal democracy. Liberty is the right and freedoms of the individual. Whereas democracy is the will of the majority.

As such i would see the right as being the liberal side.

ie if you are right you then support both economic and social liberalism.

One of the issues is more that those on the left economy many times are more liberal that those on the right economically.

In many ways it makes it difficult to categorise right and left in social policy from the terms of liberty and authoritarian.

40

Nikostratos,

28/08/2008 17:27:29
Good agenda for labour...snp economic policies where's the beef
41

Marian,

28/08/2008 17:53:50
Read Iain Dales' blog http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2008/08/alex-salmond-margaret-thatcher-truth.html for the truth about what Alex Salmond actually said to Iain Dale in the interview and make up your own mind.

Note that Iain Dale states:

"Labour has seized on the highlighted passage and called on Alex Salmond to apologise. It is astonishing that even eighteen years after she left office Margaret Thatcher still dominates much of our political discourse. Quite how Labour has managed to spin Salmond's remarks about Thatcher in the way that it has is quite astonishing - but the Scottish media has such a Labour bias it makes English newspapers look positively balanced by comparison. Every single Scottish media outlet is biased against the SNP. A point I made in an unpublished part of the interview..."

"Anyone who seriously thinks that Alex Salmond has turned into an admirer of Margaret Thatcher must want their heads read. As he has been quick to point out, it was Gordon Brown who invited her to Number Ten, so it’s a bit rich for Labour to make hay with his remarks!"

42

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 28/08/2008 18:06:42
thatcher? don't labour love her! thatcher this, and thatcher that! constantly digging her up! if this is the plan of attack from the labour spin doctors? then their in worse shape than i thought! slab do realise (a) she's not prime minister anymore? (b)the conservatives are not in power? (c) you are the goverment in westminster (d) offer something positive (e) the people of fife can think for themselves
43

Nikostratos,

28/08/2008 18:08:10
#42 Marian,

so what are the snp economic policies are they pro business free market, low tax, light regulation(Thatcherite) or old socialist government interventionist high taking Over regulated restricting interfering (commies)?

do let us know....

P.S


perhaps Thacherism should now be termed Salmondism in Scotland
44

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 18:10:12
This is the first year of the festival that has seen ticket sales down 10%. It's also the first year that the SNP - Salmond and the rest of the clowns - have been in charge of the country. Tourist numbers are also seriously down this year. Needless to say - Salmond and his lying manifesto need to go - roll on the next election - Cheerio Alex et al!!
45

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 28/08/2008 18:54:28
Senior Labour source====> Ian Swanson
Junior Labour source====> Eddie Barnes

Frothing Labour source==> "Mad" Maddox

46

Nikostratos,

28/08/2008 19:24:55
Alex seated himself beneath the monetarist Tree in the meditation posture and vowed not to rise from meditation until he had attained perfect Thatcherism. With this determination he entered the space-like concentration on the free market.
Conquering all Government interventions

As dusk fell, Keynes the chief of all the demons, or mixed economy, in this world, tried to disturb Alexs concentration by conjuring up many fearful apparitions. He manifested hosts of terrifying demons, some throwing spears, some firing arrows, some trying to burn him with fire, and some hurling boulders and even mountains at him. Through the force of his concentration, the weapons, rocks, and mountains appeared to him as a rain of fragrant Saltires, and the raging fires became like offerings of rainbow lights.

With this concentration he removed the final veils of ignorance from his mind and in the next moment became a Thatcher a fully enlightened monetarist.

Seeing that Alex could not be frightened into abandoning his meditation, Keynes tried instead to distract him by manifesting countless beautiful women, but alex responded by developing even deeper concentration. In this way he triumphed over all the "neoclassical synthesis" of this world, which is why he subsequently became known as “Alex Thatcher.”Attaining monetarism

Alex then continued with his meditation until dawn, when he attained the laissez-faire concentration. With this concentration, which is the very last mind of a limited politician, he removed the final veils of ignorance from his mind and in the next moment became a Thatcher, a full monetarist being.

47

Porty Nat,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 19:29:20
45 Gorgie Tony - you are a fool.
48

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 19:36:08
#48 - I have obviously hit a raw nerve with you. You are abusing me - that is something I never do with other posters (unless they abuse me). I respect other posters point of view - I do not mock them - like you do. I have every right to voice my opinion without having to take abuse from those that disagree. It's clowns like you that voted for Salmond - and look what a mess he is making of it. Remember - you made your bed - now lie in it.
49

Team Scotland,

FC UK No! 28/08/2008 19:37:39
#40 Alan B

I think we may have srossed wires. I am not arguing that left and right equate to Authoritarian and Libertarian, rather that because these concepts run across the economic spectrum they provide a second dimension. Left and Right are rather vague terms originating in distinctions between the French Aristocrats and revolutionaries. I think the terminology is out of date. You correctly point out that both the left and right have had authoritarian leaders. This shows authoritarianism can be a facet of both the left and the right.

I believe that we used to live in a liberal democracy but now we live in an authoritarian democracy. Fiscal freedom has been maintained or even enlarged but we are increasingly less free as individuals. This has been masked by an economic boom. Once this passes the nature of the authoritarian culture that has developed will become clearer. Those in the USA who preach 'freedom' in reality mean fiscal freedom. These ‘freedom lovers’ are usually authoritarian on social issues.

Anarchism is a right wing philosophy but unlike the neo-conservatism espoused by the American republicans and to a lesser extent New Labour, anarchism espouses both fiscal and personal freedom and is therefore libertarian. At the opposite end economically are those who espouse state control of the economy but favour personal freedoms. They are familiar to us as the social democrats that Labour used to be. Also on the left economically are those who favour state control of both the economy and of social issues, the fascists. This is why figures like Stalin could so easily drift from socialism to fascism, the economics are similar.
50

watcher4,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 19:37:49
Nothing new about Salmond and the SNP s love for the Tory`s. It would be even better for them if they can get their dearest wish, for a one Party State.
51

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 19:43:09
#45 “Gorgie_Tony” writes:-

“ This is the first year of the festival that has seen ticket sales down 10%. It's also the first year that the SNP - Salmond and the rest of the clowns - have been in charge of the country. Tourist numbers are also seriously down this year. Needless to say - Salmond and his lying manifesto need to go - roll on the next election - Cheerio Alex et al!!”

Har de har de har!

I guess you are the best respondent that the unionista cringers could find at short notice,

I suppose you also believe that the SNP government is also responsible for the ticket office fiasco in relation to the “Fringe”, the rain in August, the credit crunch, the late appearance of butterflies in Scotland, midges in Skye, the price of a gallon of vehicle fuel, the increase in the income tax of the lowest paid, the insolvency of Zoom Airlines, the low life expectancy in the Calton area of Glasgow, (lower than Delhi in India).

“Roll on the next election” indeed.

What exactly do you people have to offer the people of Scotland?
52

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 19:52:59
#52 - let's vote in a party that doesn't breaks it's promises. Salmond promised to increase the police officers by a 1000 - the numbers have fallen. He promised to cut student debt - he relented on that. He promised to get rid of the council tax - I am still paying it. He promised to reduce class sizes - schools are closing, thus increasing class sizes in the remaining schools. He accepted half a million pounds from Scotland's biggest homophobe - then rewards him with a failed hovercraft project. He has thrown the Forth Road Bridge toll workers on the dole, and caused traffic chaos in Edinburgh. He promised to scrap the tram project - what can I say!! His party is now considering pouring more money into the tram project to extend it!! Salmond is a complete failure. All those that voted for the SNP should ask for their money back - he is failing to deliver - and is damaging Scotland in the process. All he wants to do is wage war with Westminster - it is his personal vendetta - in the meantime - those in Scotland suffer as a result of his selfishness. Roll on the next election!!
53

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 20:17:37
#53

All the SNP manifesto aspirations were predicated upon having a four year term of power.

It may have escaped your notice, but as yet, our government has only held minority power for less than 15 months.

Perhaps you would like to inform us why you think that the SNP is responsible for the “Tram project”?

Is it the case that you are not particularly well informed regarding Scottish politics in general, or Edinburgh issues in particular?
54

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 28/08/2008 20:27:04
I wish people would wake up. The terms "left wing" and "right wing" have been out of date for years. Only utter idiots still think that people have to select policies on different issues according to some absurd notion of matching "left" and "right" wing matching sets that originated in the Cold War. Intelligent people choose whatever they think is the correct solution for the problem at hand, regardless of their choices for other issues. Only clinically retarded, fossilised politicians would deliberately frame their policies such that they fitted a "left wing" agenda a la 1970s or 80s. Rip van Winkles who are living in the past like this are in serious need of a wake up call.
55

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 28/08/2008 20:36:21
Quote: "Labour immediately condemned the remarks, with leadership contender Iain Gray arguing the Iron Lady's economic policies had been devastating for Scottish communities. `Thatcher's economics had at their core the belief that mass unemployment was not just a price worth paying but necessary in a modern economy,' he said." Unquote
So Iain Gray has taken it upon himself to state that Margaret Thatcher believed in mass unemployment. Iain Gray must be stupendously thick. But that's what I expect from Labour. They state what their opponents HAVE to believe in order for their own position to be justified, rather than daring to find out what their opponents really believe. Unbearably thick, actually.
56

argonaut,

musselburgh 28/08/2008 21:21:06

i read the first few lines of this story and quickly realised that the hootsman truly is struggling with reporting the news of scotland. to suggest the snp / thatcher had anything in commmon is just silly - dumb as. at the end of the day the snp have scotland interests at heart . thatcher never!
57

JWW,

Whitburn, West Lothian 28/08/2008 23:03:13
In 1979, which party instigated a vote of no confidence in the Labour Government which led to Thatcher winning the resulting General Election?

Do Leopards ever change their spots?
58

Marian,

28/08/2008 23:14:08
Here we go again with this 40 year old chestnut about the SNP letting in the Tories. The fact is they didn't. Read Jim Callaghan's memoirs, “Time and Chance”, in it the then Prime Minister noted:-

“ in his ( ie Michael Cox, Labour’s Chief Whip) view, the difficulty within the (Labour) Party, was much greater than any from the Scottish National Party, and the Whip’s judgement was that the government could not rely on the votes of Labour members from the north" i.e. they were prepared to vote down their own government, rather than support a Scottish Assembly."

So let not New Labour attempt to re-write history yet again.
59

John PM,

Edinburgh 28/08/2008 23:28:50
Labour have shifted to the right while the SNP have remained on the left. On nuclear weapons, privatisation of the health service, fees for education and numerous other issus the SNP are on the left of the Labour. Salmond was trying to explain why the Scottish people hated Thatcher and he was right. Labour invited Thatcher to No. 10 under Blair and Brown and showered praise upon her. In those circumstances their Scottish branch are acting like complete hypocrites.
60

Castaway,

28/08/2008 23:40:33
Gordon and Margaret go back a long way.
One of Mr Brown's "biggest and earliest political memories" was of an occasion in 1983 when the then-prime minister invited him into her office in the Commons to discuss over "a tumbler of whisky" a speech he had made.Guardian Sept 13 2007
Gordon Brown said Margaret Thatcher,knew something about how to run an economy.Telgraph 26 Apr 2005
Brown heaps praise on Thatcher: FT-Sept 4 2007
Brown: I'm a conviction politician like Thatcher. Independent Sep 5, 2007
Thatcher visits Brown for tea at No 10. Guardian Sept 13 2007
Brown: I want Lady Thatcher portrait to hang in No 10. Mail Online 15 Sept 2007
Tebbit praises Brown as 'Thatcher's natural successor. The Times Sept 26, 2007
Gordon Brown 'admires' Margaret Thatcher. Telegraph Sept 5 2007
Thatcher thrilled by Brown praise. Sept 9, 2007 Times
61

Matt there,

somewhere 29/08/2008 01:17:17
Ian Swanson, is it VERY cold and dark on the planet you live on?
62

Islay Herald,

29/08/2008 09:42:56
Another rabidly anti-SNP story. I'm not looking for the opposite, but where can I find proper impartial journalism? What the Johnston Press need to realise is that people ain't daft, they can see 'spin', and I for one am not in the market for paying to have someone's opinions rammed down my throat. How low do the circulation figures have to fall before this is realised?
63

Islay Herald,

29/08/2008 09:54:24
52 / Gorgie Boy - What you either fail to appreciate or are trying to ignore is that the SNP is a MINORITY government. In other words, it can't get jack s*$t through without the support of other parties. He wanted to cut student debt, but the other parties refused to let it through. He's in the process of trying to get rid of council tax (and he's frozen it in the process) but labour and the tories are against this. Ditto with the trams project. I'm guessing you are perhaps a supporter of one of these parties. I'm also quite happy with NOT paying a toll every time I want to cross the bridge. Another point I would make is that you need to judge the SNP's success on 4 years, not 1. Is there a valid reason why you are jumping to your conclusions after so short a timescale? What were you expecting? He's not Gandalf.
Another point I would make to you is that the Westminster government have slapped us with the tightest budget in years, leaving very little room for manouvre. I think John Swinney's done quite well with what he's been dealt. Is Salmond a failure? Nope. At least, the opinion polls don't seem to suggest others share your views. neither do the voters of Glasgow East. Come back and ask me in 10 years, not 1.
I don't agree that he only wants to wage war on Westminster. he's certainly standing up for Scotland more, which is something the other parties won't do. Would you rather he laid down and let London walk all over us? Anyway, it's got to be better than spending Billions of taxpayers cash on waging war on innocent Iraqui civilians.
64

Porty Nat,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 10:05:40
Gorgie Tony - I reserve my mockery for those who, like you, so clearly deserve it. As for being a fool, let's examine the evidence, shall we?

Your regular contribution is unintelligent garbage like "SNP = Tartan Tories = cuts cuts cuts", irrespective as to the story under discussion. The other week you tried to blame the Edinburgh tram roadworks on the Lib Dem/SNP run Edinburgh Council, despite the fact the project was forced through by Labour and the Lib Dems in Holyrood.

Today, it's the fall in Festival ticket sales that are apparently the fault of the SNP. Not computer problems with the ticketing system, not the credit crunch leaving people will less money in their pockets, not a poor exchange rate making the UK an expensive place to vacation, not even a rise in the cost of air travel reducing visitor numbers. So, your latest contention, as anyone with an ounce of common sense will know, is complete cobblers.

Now, if you genuinely believe all that you write, then I stand by my assesment. If you don't and are just putting your nonsense out here for the purposes of propaganda, then it is you who is treating the rest of us as fools.
65

JWW,

Whitburn, West Lothian 29/08/2008 10:57:34
Has the trappings of power turned Salmond into a Westminster poodle?

Can people really change that much after only 15 months in Government?

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 

Featured Advertising