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Police want 'extreme' drink-drive penalties

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Published Date: 07 January 2008
A TOP Lothians police officer today called for tougher sentences to tackle a "hard-core" of drink drivers, including the one in four offenders who were two or more times the legal limit.
More than 130 people were arrested for drink and drug driving by police in the region during the four-week Christmas crackdown. The number of drivers held has remained largely steady over the past five years, leading to fears that the safety message is not getting through.

The officer in charge of the campaign today called for tougher penalties to dissuade serious and repeat offenders. Inspector Jill Kerr, from the force's road policing unit, said custodial sentences or lifetime driving bans could be among the measures considered.

Across the Lothians, 133 people were arrested for drink driving over the festive season. The highest number of arrests were made in Edinburgh, where 64 people were caught by police checks.

Worryingly, more than a quarter of those tested in the Lothians were found to be more than twice the legal driving limit.

The figure is down on last year's total of 153, but is a slight increase on both 2004/5, when 130 people were arrested, and 2005/6, when there were 117 arrests.

One of those caught was a 45-year-old woman in Tranent, East Lothian, who was found to be three times over the limit, and who had been charged with failing to provide a breath test last December.

Insp Kerr, who co-ordinated the drink-drive campaign, said: "The figures are down on last year, which is encouraging, but over the last four years they have been quite steady and it seems there is a hard-core of drink drivers who are just not getting the message.

"The fact that 25 per cent of those people arrested were found to be more than two times over the limit is very concerning, and too many people are drinking too much and then driving.

"We need to get through to them, and I feel that tougher sentences may be the best way to do that."

Current sentences can see drivers banned for up to two years and landed with hefty fines. A custodial sentence or a lifetime driving ban are among the measures which Insp Kerr agreed could be looked at.

"Certainly I feel we need to look at a more extreme form of punishment, as this kind of behaviour cannot be tolerated," she said.

During the crackdown there were also 24 arrests in Mid- and East Lothian, 38 in West Lothian, and just seven in the Scottish Borders division. The figures included two arrests for drug driving.

The majority of offenders – 84 per cent – were male, with almost half of those arrested men aged between 26 and 55 years old.

The second largest group was men under the age of 25, which covered 30 per cent of the arrests.

• Almost a third of young motorists in the UK admit to drinking and driving, with many saying they feel fine behind the wheel after consuming alcohol, a survey revealed today.

A fifth of 17-24-year-olds also owned up to driving while under the influence of drugs in the survey from motoring website and magazine Auto Trader.

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  • Last Updated: 07 January 2008 12:16 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Alcohol & binge drinking
 
1

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 07/01/2008 12:46:48
I would suggest that Inspector Kerr's job is to enforce the law not to prognosticate on punishment custodial or otherwise.
2

Pen Fold,

Here 07/01/2008 12:49:53
have said it before and will say it again, the drink driving laws are a joke in the uk.

the police need the power to set up road stations and pull over cars at random to test drivers. this way folk run a massively increased risk of being caught.

this has been the practice in australia & new zealand for many a year (at least 15 years)and stations can/are set up 24 hours a day.

last time i was in oz i was breath tested 4 times within a 3 week period. i have driven in uk for last 8 years and have not been breath tested a single time.

the practice here seems to be you will only get caught once you do something wrong on the road. not really "prevention over cure" is it?

if the law makers are seriuos about lowering the number of drink drivers they must introduce this type of practice, until then it is only lip service.
3

Hmm ...,

07/01/2008 12:58:22
... it seems to me that the problem is not that the penalties are inadequate but the enforcement is largely absent - more police watching out for offenders would increase the likelihood of being caught.
For those who are caught, the penalty is draconian - loss of licence and subsequent problems in getting insurance.
Only a belief that they are unlikely to be caught encourages the irresponsible to drink and drive, whereas there is no alternative to taking alcoholics off the road - they cannot control their own drinking so can't be expected to adhere to any law, however draconian.
Reducing the drink/drive limit will do nothing to improve road safety but will either increase the police's conviction rate or reduce pubs and hotels business or both.
4

James (1),

07/01/2008 13:17:20
What does Inspector Kerr think should happen to a police officer using a police sign in a private car to get free parking on George Street? Has she ever heard of anyone having done this?
Would that be fraud? If a Constable did this, would the penalty be any different than say an Inspector doing it?
Lothian & Borders Police would surely not sweep such a blatant abuse of position under the carpet, would they?
5

an interested party,

07/01/2008 13:20:55
well said number 1

the polis have to pass the buck to anyone else otherwise it would simply be them failing to do there job.

if said cheif of polis wants to be involved in the making of laws rather than there inforcement he should stand for some political party and make it clear that what he is about

if not back to crowd management
6

Mister Niceguy,

07/01/2008 13:46:26
#2 - agree entirely.

Too many car-related tragedies on the roads and a significant number of these are drink/drug related. I'm not convinced stiffer penalties will help though.

More random tests is fine by me. It will also catch those driving without their licence having already lost theirs for previous offences. Maybe reserve the stiffer penalties for these repreat-offenders.
7

The Judge,

07/01/2008 14:42:14
Crush their car and take away their license for 10 years a years ban obviously isn't working.
8

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 07/01/2008 15:04:03
PenFold:

With all that going on in Oz & NZ regarding drink driving, can you say what they are doing about the (presumably) large number of drivers who are incompetent but sober?

It's all very well getting emotional about drinking and driving and saying "this should happen" or "that should happen" (The Judge) but in reality you are missing the point.

The fact is that nowadays, only a tiny proportion of crashes are caused by drunk drivers. Even if no-one ever drank and drove and this tiny fraction was totally eradicated, it would be insignificant in comparison to the number of crashes caused by SOBER drivers.

The drink-drive laws as they stand, work. They say that in the Lothians, 133 people failed the test. How many passed it? I would imagine that the number who passed is into five figures, which renders the 133 almost insignificant. Out of those 133, how many were involved in a crash? Out of those, how many actually caused the crash because they were drunk? Not many, I'd wager.

Scrap the breathalyser and introduce a driving simulator test. This would catch people who are incapable because of drink, drugs, tireness, illness or just plain incompetence. It would address the majority of causes of crashes. Combined with a tiered driving licence system it would make our roads a lot safer to boot.
9

James (1),

07/01/2008 15:30:13
#8 I appreciate you are making a serious suggestion but I disagree with the way you dismiss the pass/fail rates as one cancelling out the other because so many passed. The driving test is "meant" to assess whether you can drive. Once passed it does not mean you stop learning. The conditions for driving mean you have to be under a limit regarding alcohol. Your "driving simulator" is a non starter. You have said the numbers who passed the breath test is in the five figures and if we take your guesstimate as true then you are going to put a fraction of those people through a simulator (because to sit that type of test will take quite some time. Then if they fail you need to have a evidential measure of this). There needs to be a quick test (breath test meets this) however there also needs to be a real deterrent.
I would suggest siezing their car if they fail both the breath test and station procedure until the court case and then confiscating the car along with a ban if found guilty.
10

Jimmy the Pie,

07/01/2008 15:35:03
Plod should be hunting down Wendy and her gang of criminals, and leave lawmaking to the Scottish Government. Did Westminster not veto any change in the drink driving laws in Scotland??

"Where's Wendy" is coming out as a board game in time for next Christmas
11

Groucho,

07/01/2008 17:02:09
Would a decent public transport system help? After all, It's obvious that people drink at Christmas time.People also travel around. Why take most of the public transport off? Wouldn't it make more sence to increase the number of buses?
12

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 07/01/2008 17:58:46
You say that once you have passed the driving test, the learning process begins. In some respects, I couldn't agree more.

What I have always been advocating is a tiered system of driver licencing with even the "entry level" being about twice as demanding as the current test. I advocate three levels of licence, each with time limits for passing. IE, once you have passed level 1, you then have 2 years to pass level 2 otherwise you have to re-take level 1. In total you have 3 attempts at level 1 (including "back classing") before you are disqualified for life.

Level 3 would be the only level that does not carry any time limits, although it may be prudent to require regular assesments to ensure that the standard is maintained.

Once you have categorised the drivers' ability in this manner, you have a far better yardstick by which to apply the driving simulator test. You would also make it very much in the interests of the driver to maintain a standard at all times. Drive like a "nugget" and you could face a very real threat of a permanent loss of licence.

Currently, drivers get away with what they can and do as little as possible when driving. My proposed scheme would turn that on it's head and force drivers to become competent.

Chairmans Gordon's suggestions (#12) would not have the desired effect---if they had any effect at all beyond crininalising millions of safe drivers. Notwithstanding drink, drugs etc, the bottom line is "are you safe to drive?" If the answer to this is "no" for whatever reason, you should not be on the road.

 

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