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Monday, 2nd November 2009 Change Date Latest Issue

Plug to be pulled on tram line

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Published Date: 20 November 2008
AN £87 million extension to Edinburgh's tram line is set to be scrapped amid a mounting cash crisis.
The city council today insisted that no final decision had been made on whether to go ahead with line 1b between Roseburn and Granton, but sources close to the project say it is now a "non-starter".

It comes as figures obtained by the Evening News show that the city council has so far banked just £3m of the £25m it planned to raise from developers' contributions for the first part of the project. Just £300,000 has been raised for line 1b.

A council source admitted that the economic downturn, coupled with fears that the cost of the main £512m project would soar, meant the 1b spur would be scrapped.

It is understood senior councillors had been summoned to a meeting with the local authority's chief executive following the resignation of tram boss Willie Gallagher last week, where they were asked to make up their minds about the future of line 1b by the start of next month.

But he added: "Nothing that happens in two weeks will change the financial situation. They were never going to have the money. The chickens have come home to roost and now line 1b will not be going ahead."

Another unnamed source said that while a "formal" decision had yet to be made, the final cost of line 1a was likely to "go north", sounding the death knell for the extension.

A total of £545m has been set aside for the trams project, with £500m coming from Transport Scotland and the remainder from the city council. The 1b spur was originally put on hold when the tram scheme was scaled back in 2006. However, TIE has secured a fixed price of £87m to build the line – if it can commit to the project before next spring.

City council leader Jenny Dawe today insisted that the spur line was not dead, and that a working group was currently exploring costs and funding for the project.

She said: "There is no point in speculating on rumour or innuendo. No decision regarding 1b requires to be taken until well into 2009. A working group is currently exploring the capital costs and funding options for delivering line 1b.

"The tram project continues to progress as planned. Our ambition remains to have a fully integrated transport system operational in Edinburgh in 2011."

Last week it emerged that tram chiefs are facing a battle to keep the project on schedule and expect a legal wrangle over inevitable cost rises.

The timetable for delivering the line by 2011 has already slipped, with work at the trams depot at Gogar in particular causing a headache.

TIE is confident of making up the lost time, although it is braced for the unavoidable rise in costs that will result, and disputes with contractors over who is responsible for the extra spending.

Mr Gallagher stepped down as TIE's executive chairman last week, citing family reasons for his departure.

The resignation is said to have come as a "bolt from the blue" for council leaders, and came just weeks after Neil Renilson announced his decision to retire from his position as chief executive of Transport Edinburgh Limited and Lothian Buses at the end of the year.

The decision not to shut Princes Street – which would have allowed the tram work to press ahead faster – and the effects of the global economic slowdown are understood to have put a strain on TIE's budget.

Shirley-Anne Somerville, SNP MSP for the Lothians, said pressing ahead with line 1b would be "sheer lunacy".

She said: "Residents of Edinburgh will breathe a sigh of relief to hear that common sense has finally prevailed.

"I hope that all efforts will now be concentrated on finishing line 1a efficiently, with minimum disruption to all the hard-pressed local residents, businesses and commuters whose lives have been blighted by the chaos for so long."

Mark McInnes, the city's Tory transport spokesman, said: "I think it's probably the right decision and the least risky one in terms of the council's ability to raise money through developers' contributions. I think not going beyond line 1a at this point is sensible."

Roadworks blamed as bus chiefs reveal cuts

All change for the following services . .

FULL details of fresh cuts to Lothian Buses services have been revealed, with bus bosses blaming "city-wide roadworks" and the economic downturn for the move.

Five more routes are set to be withdrawn or cut back, with frequency reduced on nine more services.

The plans will be submitted to the Traffic Commissioner tomorrow and will be discussed with the city council next week.

The council is proposing to spend £26,400 to save one of the under-threat routes, the X48 to Ratho, for the next few months. It says withdrawing it could "isolate" the community.

The news follows Lothian Buses' decision to cut 11 routes last month.

Passenger numbers have been badly hit by tram works and other roadworks, and are down seven per cent on last year.

Ian Craig, the company's managing director said: "We are disappointed to be proposing these changes, but it is a necessary response to falling passenger numbers caused by a combination of tough economic conditions and city-wide roadworks – the end result of which is a pressing need to further reduce loss-making operations."

He said the firm would try to minimise the effect on customers, and the vast majority would be able to access alternative services.

Among the buses to be cut are the X48, which will only operate during peak periods. The Ratho to Ingliston part is being completely withdrawn. The council says this will have a "major impact" on users, as there are no other buses connecting Ratho with the city centre.

Dave Henderson, the director of city development, said: "The most severe impact is undoubtedly the loss of the X48 service to Ratho.

"This community is isolated from the main road network and the X48 provides the only bus link to the city centre."

He said the complete withdrawal of the 17, which serves the Waterfront, would also have an impact on customers.

The X12, which serves Gogarburn and Leith Links, is also due to be withdrawn. Nine bus routes will now run less frequently, including the 22, which covers part of the planned tram route.

Cllr Phil Wheeler, the city's transport leader, said the authority would be working with Lothian Buses to minimise the impact of the cuts.




Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 20 November 2008 11:02 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Edinburgh transport plans
 
1

Anonym,

20/11/2008 11:47:39
Cue 'debate' about how everybody / nobody wants trams in Edinburgh...
2

JulesF,

Kirkliston 20/11/2008 11:48:08
All aboard the daily gravy tram story !

Ding Ding !
3

,

20/11/2008 11:48:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

Skip McClendon,

20/11/2008 11:52:17
#4

What, the rumour that we are getting a "fully integrated transport network" by 2011?

Adding a single tramline will not create a fully integrated transport network. It will replace the #22 Bus.

And damned EEN sub-editors...that headline got my hopes up that the entire White Elephant was being scrapped!
5

allknowing,

20/11/2008 11:52:28
Poo, i got all excited thinking the headline related to the whole scheme, but alas it wasnt.

Next, the whole scheme please, then return Edinburgh back to soem normality.
6

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 11:55:00
The '1b' extension is being cancelled - good.

Time to cancel the rest of this utterly crazy and largely unwanted project.

Remember folks, Labour, Lib Dems, 'Greenies' and Conservatives pushed this unnecessary project through in the SP.

7

Skip McClendon,

20/11/2008 11:56:29
#8

Kinda like the cheap tactic of employing a new Tram supremo to trick you into thinking that the scheme is viable, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
8

Hmm?,

20/11/2008 11:57:23
"An £87 million extension to Edinburgh's tram line is set to be scrapped amid a mounting cash crisis."

Quel surprise! Did anyone actually believe that there was any chance of any of the spur extensions actually being built?
9

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 11:57:49
City council leader Jenny Dawe today insisted that the spur line was not dead, and that a working group was currently rummaging down the back of all Cooncil furniture in the hope of finding enough small change to fund the gap . . .!
10

LUVMACITY,

IN THE LOBBY 20/11/2008 12:00:13
1* DON'T JUMP THE GUN, AS NO DECISION HAS TO BE MADE UNTIL NEXT YEAR.
11

,

20/11/2008 12:00:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
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12

Dragonlord,

20/11/2008 12:01:06
Here is the main point of this story: coupled with fears that the cost of the main £512m project would soar.
Now we said all along that the on time, on budget was never going to happen. All the pro trammies must now realise what we have been saying all along, that the tainset will bankrupt this city. Scrap it all NOW!
13

tumshie heid,

20/11/2008 12:02:47
Lets hope we hear the announcement soon that the whole damn thing is being scrapped.
14

fibi,

edinburgh 20/11/2008 12:02:58
Just confirms what those of us who did our homework knew all along . This line was never affordable or wanted, except that is by the poor folk at Telford College and Scottish gas who were "promised" a tramline to persuade them to move there. The "costs "have never been accurate . Even the bit that Tie seem determined to finish will cost c 1 billion . Quess who will have to pay the shortfall
15

,

20/11/2008 12:04:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
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16

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 12:05:11
If the Council DO decide to press on with this scheme - and not just Line 1b - against overwhelming professional advice, it should be on a Role call vote, to ensure that each and every one of them faces personal liability for the financial consequences.
17

The Judge,

20/11/2008 12:06:40
I bet that headline had a few of you going. Now I've been proved right on everything I've said about the tramLINE so listen very carefully I'm only going to say this once.

The project will be "mothballed" around 18th January, the utility work will cease sometime in March.

The tramLINE is dead.

18

tumshie heid,

20/11/2008 12:06:58
#16 There is no need to spread muck, this whole project reeks of corruption, jobs for the boys and back handers.
It is doomed and I for one am delighted as we progress every day towards the eventual cancellation of the toy train set.
19

Skip McClendon,

20/11/2008 12:07:43
#20

I'm not the source. Sometimes, I am on the sauce. Or, I would be if I could be bothered trudging along to the EEN office to pick up my caption comp crate of beer.
20

eric,

lothian 20/11/2008 12:07:43
Is that the time already.
21

Way Out West,

20/11/2008 12:09:11
'Ian Craig, the company's managing director said: "We are disappointed to be proposing these changes, but it is a necessary response to falling passenger numbers caused by a combination of tough economic conditions and city-wide roadworks – the end result of which is a pressing need to further reduce loss-making operations."'

This has nothing at all to do with the trams. It is all about making Lothian Buses fit for a sell-off so that the proceeds can be used to finish off the tram line.
22

Boswall,

20/11/2008 12:09:59
Hurrah!

1 down 1 to go :)
23

Way Out West,

20/11/2008 12:11:10
#23

If the trams are cancelled then the money has to be repaid to the Government. The trams are coming - end of.
24

allknowing,

20/11/2008 12:11:37
#20 not me either!!!
25

Linda,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 12:11:51
SNP was right to oppose this expensive folly and to cap the expenditure which will result in cuts to bus services and other city services as Edinburgh will have to pick up the bill for any cost overruns.
26

Randan,

20/11/2008 12:12:24
Meadowbank, line 1b, Caltongate.
Line 'em up, knock 'em down!
27

Skip McClendon,

20/11/2008 12:13:15
#28

Then the money should be repaid to the Government. Let them use it for something useful.
28

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

20/11/2008 12:16:50
See the BBC News website for a more accurate story!

I'm not surprised if it is Mr Cardownie: he's just a trouble-maker who has a vested interest in making sure Edinburgh's public transport isn't improved as he wants us all to use his minicab business! As for Ms Somerville, her researcher admitted to the BBC that they had no evidence whatsoever! What a pair of vindictive little numpties! In any case, Ms Somerville's comments about inconvenience hardly apply to Line 1b as it's almost entirely off-road. All the utility work on Leith Walk that she moans about would have to happened at some point anyway: the utilities were in a right state! We should be glad that it all got sorted in one go, rather than bit-by-bit...

Let's just wait and see, shall we... As is made perfectly clear, no decision has been made!!!
29

tumshie heid,

20/11/2008 12:18:01
#28 Repay the money and let the voters decide what they think of the clowns responsible for giving this ill fated scheme the go ahead at the next election.
Cancel it all and stop haemorraging cash for the sake of vanity.
30

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 12:18:06
Excellent!

Hopefully it will carry on like this, so in the end, Edinburgh will have had it's water, gas and sewerage systems thoroughly overhauled and the roads will be back as they were before all this madness started.
31

Skip McClendon,

20/11/2008 12:20:35
#20

And hey, why was I just "long time reader" Skip, while others got to be mental patients, stalkers, headcases, and tumshies?!?

Obviously, I must try harder...
32

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 12:22:03
ITV news were saying last night that line 3 would be promoted instead - if true, then this does indeed show a sense of pragmatism on the part of the developers and was one of the reasons why the project was phased in the first place - to avoid unforseen circumstances such as the credit crunch causing a downturn in building.
The project has a hugely positive benefit to cost ratio which (are you reading, Skip) means that it saves more money than it costs - irrespective of whether optional extensions can currently be afforded.
33

tumshie heid,

20/11/2008 12:24:36
#39 It will save a fortune in buses right enough as they will all be sold/scrapped to fund this farce.
34

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 12:24:41
The wonder is that Phase 1B has been kept on the cards for so long as it never did and never would stack up.

If the money has not been forthcoming from the private sector and the Council's coffers are diminishing, then it looks like the options being explored must relate to further borrowing.

No Granton development = woefully insufficient passenger numbers to cover costs = further strain on Lothian Buses to cover losses = further cuts to bus services/frequencies and/or fare increases = likely further reduction in public transport user numbers and consequent uplift in car use. How would this confirm to national and local government policy?

35

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 12:28:12
#11 The Genuine Mario Antoinette

Mario, this is just the usual pre-annoucement 'leak'.

The sooner the whole scheme goes down the same route, the better myself and the majority of posters on this matter will be pleased.

Cancel the trams now.



36

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 12:29:08
#40 Clearly you're not listening - all you have done is knock the project at every turn, irrespective of the evidence available, so why change now?
37

,

20/11/2008 12:31:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
38

Skip McClendon,

20/11/2008 12:31:44
#39

Yes, I'm reading but I'm still not believing.

All these billions to replace a single bus route and add yet another mode of transport onto already congested road space.

With the added benefit of forcing further cuts in Lothian Buses services due to construction delays and falling passenger numbers due to commuter frustration.

And that's before we even get to the cuts to other services, and the inevitible future hikes in Council tax as ECC struggle to find ways to meet the rising costs.

39

Skip McClendon,

20/11/2008 12:33:10
#44

Much better thanks. Was feeling a bit left out there.
40

Skip McClendon,

20/11/2008 12:35:22
#46

Whoops...should have been "all those millions" not "all those billions" before the pro-Tram-Taleban have me beheaded for making up figures...
41

Skip McClendon,

20/11/2008 12:38:21
#49

What...on...earth?

Stop eating those cakes, Mario.
42

Bob 2,

20/11/2008 12:38:43
things can only get better !!!!!

So that will be £3m to the contractors for the cancellation of line 1b


The Whole Tram Project is turning into an embarrassment

Its having the complete opposite to what it was supposed to do

Improve Public Transport in Edinburgh.

Yet no one is being held accountable for this Utter Shambles.

Fares Up - Services Cancelled - Frequencies Reduced
43

,

20/11/2008 12:38:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
44

Bob 2,

20/11/2008 12:39:32
does anyone have a full list of the Proposed cuts to services
45

Bob 2,

20/11/2008 12:41:13
yip use the bus - what bus.

This can only mean increased car usage in/into Edinburgh as services are "cut"

46

tumshie heid,

20/11/2008 12:42:25
#43 I am listening, just refusing to believe the spin. Just because I don't agre with you on the tramline doesn't instantly mean you are right.
Mario:
I don't believe it to be childish either to look forward to the cancellation of the trams.After all I think that if completed they will just add to the congestion in Edinbuirgh by taking up huge areas of road unnecessarily.
I am dismayed at the cash wasted but that appears to be what councils do.
47

allknowing,

20/11/2008 12:44:31
Give it a few more weeks, and we will hear a lot more re cuts and cancellations. I cant wait!!!!

Remember, Willie left for 'personal' reasons. My e4rse!!!
48

I love to eat Sellotape,

20/11/2008 12:48:12
For more fascinating comment on this topic, log on to

wwww.simplemindedmouthbreathers.co.uk
49

,

20/11/2008 12:51:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
50

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

20/11/2008 12:52:39
#56

How exactly will the trams cause congestion? Most of the route is off-road, and of that which is on-road, the majority of the line is shared with other traffic. The tram line isn't a fenced-off reservation exclusively for trams! Or have younot looked at the detailed plans like I have? In any case, even if they did have exclusive paths, it's a darn site better than loads of buses queuing at each stop one-by-one!
51

Bob 2,

20/11/2008 12:54:43
funny how the EN gets a hold of these things

and many of the tram/bus stories have not been far off the truth.
52

Bob 2,

20/11/2008 13:00:33
no 61

buses queuing at each stop one-by-one!

well up until recently, Edinburgh had an Award Winning Bus Network, NETWORK, its going going .....g

we will have tram line, with one ROUTE, were as buses are going to different destinations.

I think yo will find that there is a reduction in available road space for buses/cars

Isn't leith walks bus lanes going so that cars and buses will share the same lane.

The Trams will have priority so that they can speed people from One Shopping Mall to another.

Buses will be held up as the trams speed through.

Pedestrians will also see their pavements reduced in size to accomodate the trams.

and the benfits are ?
53

New Town Resident,

20/11/2008 13:03:10
The scheme is even more pointless without 1b. Its no good hoping it will be built some day, the money will never be there now. Central UK government policy regarding trams has changed because they have been a failure in other cities so there won't be new Barrett money for trams.

Please can we have a really proper detailed debate about cancellation now? Its not knee jerk, this is a serious matter which might wreck Edinburgh finance for decade to come. Seems like its down to the SNP to lead this. OK, lets get serious. Quit the sloganising and the political games and start setting out the very real and robust case for cancellation based on the changed circumstances, starting with revisiting the original business case.

1. Where do the votes really lie in the council? Can some be lobbied? The few councillors I've met from both the Tories and Labour at social events say they are very uncomfortable with this project (of course that could just be to get rid of me, can quite see that!)

2. What will the cancellation fees be?

Please those who are open minded, don't fall for the 2 arguments the tramies are now reduced to;

1. "We have spent too much already." Bad economics, and anyway so far much of the money has been spent on utilities which would have been needed to be done anyway.

2. "Money saved would just go back to the government."

So what. Thats typical "lets spend our public sector budget by the end of the year or we will lose it thinking." The government is us, the taxpayer and we want our money back. And at least we will be protected from ongoing losses too if someone has the guts to cancel.

54

Farmernot,

20/11/2008 13:03:27
Jennie HeeHaw states that no decision will be made until next July.
OK so why has Willie resigned and sparked a "hiring process of likely people" to kickstart the resurgence.

Nope I'm afraid there's no smoke without fire so why wait 8 months for a decision that is a no brainer due to a funding crisis.

Jennie and her pals at City Chambers are in a right mess with this.
55

Decent,

20/11/2008 13:08:14
I love my car. I just wish I hadn't bought it from Arnold Clark. Do you know there is a website called Arnold Clark Sucks?
56

scotsol,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 13:09:38
At a bit of a tangent, remember the story a few days ago about the restaurant owner on St Andrews Square who was moaning about how tram network construction had meant he wasn't getting any christmas office parties this year? (he was full up last year, natch.)Well, the phase 1 works in the square are now complete, there is no traffic disruption or construction there, and phase 2 won't start till next year. So clearly the real reason for his downturn is his crappy food. TIE compensation payers, take note.
57

Bob 2,

20/11/2008 13:11:01
its no wonder people are abandoning the buses.

some routes are being diverted that much in Leith that they are virtually running a New Route. People are walking or having use other bus routes to get to were they are going.

may if they took off some of the Park & Ride Buses, that are running empty during the day.
58

Bob 2,

20/11/2008 13:14:40
69

funny there was holes in the roads and roads closed around the St Andrew Square the other day, with buses diverted. in all directions.

The east side of St Andrew Square was like a building site with No Entry Signs


you are refering to St Andrew Square in Edinburgh?
59

I love to eat Sellotape,

20/11/2008 13:15:18
68.

I do now.
60

Bob 2,

20/11/2008 13:17:18
66 hasn't TIE signed fixed priced contracts for the Rails and Trams?
61

hibbywul,

20/11/2008 13:17:31
Trams will never again run in Edinburgh.
62

Rap,

20/11/2008 13:17:44
"It comes as figures obtained by the Evening News show that the city council has so far banked just £3m of the £25m it planned to raise from developers' contributions for the first part of the project. "

So glad that our planners have absolutely no pressure to grant approval to developers along the tram route then. Totally independent from any financial interests, of course.
63

James (1),

20/11/2008 13:17:58
#49 has Foo got his identities mixed up or what!

Note to Foo:- The rambling, insulting part of the minority support for the tram line is you. That allows you to insult others.

Mario is the name you use when you want to come over as sane!
You have mixed them up in #49 and should have signed in a Foo. Let's hope the new Mrs reins you in and ensures you take you medication.
Now repeat after me, Foo is the nasty one, Mario the good one!
You are going to forget this I just know it.
64

James (1),

20/11/2008 13:19:16
What are these personal reasons Willie left for?
65

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

20/11/2008 13:19:58
Sorry Bob2, but you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

The tram is not replacing every single bus route that goes up Leith Walk - you will still be able to get a bus that goes to "different destinations". The tram line will provide badly-needed capacity on the massively busy east-west corridor, whilst actually allowing the other bus routes to run more effectively, rather than be clogged up with this bulk traffic.

Buses and cars WILL share the road space that the trams use. LOOK AT THE PLANS!!! At some points, the bus lane will be shared with trams - at other points, the dedicated bus lane will go, with pull-in stops out of the traffic. Much as today - there is no solid bus lane all the way up Leith Walk, never was!

My point about buses queuing at each stop is that currently each bus has to wait until it reaches the stop... Lines of buses thus appear at each stop, sometimes blocking traffic. A tram allows several buses-worth to pick-up and drop-off simultaneously - a dozen doors opening at once is faster than one at a time!

Sarcastic comments about Lothian Buses completely disappearing are complete and utter nonsense, fatally undermining your equally nonsensical comments.

Get your facts right!
66

jdships,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 13:22:01
The Genuine Mario Antoinette, Foo

Why is it you persist with your arrogant nonsense of " if it isn't in agreenance with my thinking it's wrong " line ?

The fact that you cannot accept people have a right to express opinions without rude remarks being passed does nothing for your credibility.

I certainly do not agree with much you both write but acknowledge your rights to express your views and I would expect that you do the same to other posters without being rude.

By all means stick to your principles , I admire you for that, but take a wee look at yourself now and again.
67

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

20/11/2008 13:22:28
Sorry, second last line should read "...your OTHER equally..."!
68

tumshie heid,

20/11/2008 13:23:23
#Mario I very rarely use a car, preferring to zip through the jams on a motorbike. Over the years Edinburgh has been transformed into a maze of one way streets, dead ends etc. This in my opinion has artificially created congestion that simply wouldn't be there if these schemes were removed.
There will always be a "rush hour" as in every city but we don't need a giant trainset to solve a very insignificant problem.
People will always prefer their own vehicle to sitting on public transport as a car/bike etc is infinately more flexible.
To answer David I refer you to post #65 as he has summed it up nicely.
69

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

20/11/2008 13:26:02
Jdships: the problem is not people expressing "opinions" it them trying to pass of such opinion as fact. There is an important difference.
70

tumshie heid,

20/11/2008 13:26:29
I meant antiedinburgh not David.
71

Buttress,

20/11/2008 13:27:15
Well, seems the Chamber of Commerce crystal ball has clouded over:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7305597.stm

72

New Town Resident,

20/11/2008 13:28:56
#73. Yes they have signed forward "fixed contracts", but because its all imported they still have currency exposure, so its now fixed plus "15%". My question was "what is the cancellation charge for these contracts?" This is presumably commercially confidential, but i would expect the charges rise over time. A normal commercial company would be really on top of this and seriously thinking of cancelling now because of the time ratchet. Unfortunately TIE are hardly likely to consider this and the councillors are more concerned about political face than somebody else's public money. Oh, and by the way infrastructure prices are going through the floor right now, so actually cancellation and renegotiation would probably be a better option anyway even if you wanted to proceed- but these jokers wouldn't risk that would they, because that would involve a serious re-look.
73

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

20/11/2008 13:29:50
tumshie held. Good for you. Aren't you fortunate to have access to private transportation. What about the fifty-percent of households in Edinburgh that don't have the same privilege? Are we not entitled to public transport improvements? Are pedestrians not allowed car-free zones, a safe place to cross the road, the ability to get on a bus without it being held up by hundreds of cars holding just one person? The road space is not just for private use - it is a shared asset for all of us, and thus needs to be managed to accommodate this.
74

,

20/11/2008 13:31:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
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75

,

20/11/2008 13:31:22
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76

keit011,

20/11/2008 13:33:53
would have been better to use horse and cart is that not a greener way to travel these trams will probably have a bundle of technical problems for the first few years it seems a lot of bother. they could have done it from the dalkeith side to the airport passing the royal infirmary at least they could have expanded more its pretty restricted in granton leith and airport they all have unmovable things around them i.e firth of forth just one
77

tumshie heid,

20/11/2008 13:36:31
#87 Of course the public are entitled to good public transport but one vastly expensive inflexible tram line does not provide that.
A rethink of the (very good) bus service would have sufficed at a fraction of the cost.
78

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 13:38:27
Best thing to do now would be temporarily halt work on the trams until a clearer picture emerges og how much money has been spent, and how much more is likely to be spent.

May be as well re-thinking the need for trms at all - one line replacing the 22 bus won't ever make money.
79

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 13:41:39
Think of the finances like water in a bath - the trams are a door in the side of that bath.

80

,

20/11/2008 13:42:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
81

James (1),

20/11/2008 13:43:09
How did this project get started?
They ignored what the residents of Edinburgh wanted and thought it would be a great scheme worth the money and the public would thank them in the end.

What is now happening is that they are still ignoring the public and trying (you have to admit that, because they are trying. Every one in TIE management has their finger in the dyke trying to prevent the inevitable)to make this fiasco a success.

Unfortunatley the cost will out weigh the benefits. Bus services will be cut to stem the flow of money being drained by this line. You know it and I know it but it must never be said out loud.
What needs to be done is tell those who can seen this crash about to happen that they are wrong. Try to undermine their credibility.
We can print more money or more correctly we can increase their taxes should be the battle cry.
Get the tram line in at any cost!
82

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 13:45:12
#92

I too like trams, and agree that they work in other places.

None of which means TIE are competent.

83

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 13:45:23
100
84

,

20/11/2008 13:51:24
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Reason:
85

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 13:53:26

There will be no trams.

Nobody wants the trams.

It's the end of the line.
86

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 13:55:40

#106

And the Grassmarket spur

"Got 50p for a cuppie tea. Uh used to manuj the tram skeem so ah did but a left for personal reasons hic"
87

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 13:57:24
Council should have thought this one through - instead of trams, maybe a Chicago Loop style monorail, and jetpacks for the elderly.
88

James (1),

20/11/2008 14:00:29
#103 well said Foo! (Do people other than actors in the Pink Panther actually say Ah so?)If so I bow to your superior knowledge.

We must continue this discussion but if we could delay it for an hour so your medication can have time to work.
zai jian
89

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:01:18
The tramworkers christmas party is costing £100 per reveller as they are travelling in a brickproof motorcade to norf Berrick for chicken in a basket and 15 pints of cider.
90

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 14:01:55
I find the vision of the council of a modern Edinburgh very seductive. I see an Edinburgh, clean, bright and airy. People all smiling in the sunshine as they sit and chat alongside the boulevards,sipping wine enjoying conversation,smiling and laughing. Whilst, busy 21st century people pass to and fro being prosperous,vibrant and happy.
Masses of happy,smiling and busy vibrant people being whisked silently,efficiently from the airport to the seafront development to busy & vibrant meetings that are always happy & prosperous. ( sigh !!!!!)
91

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:02:22
Why would anyone have a door in their bath?
92

,

20/11/2008 14:04:46
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Reason:
93

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:06:36
#118

Me too. She must have got the shock of her life.
94

James (1),

20/11/2008 14:06:37
#117 Please ignore Foo he floats in and out of sense.
You watch. In one hour the medication will bring him round.
Don't make the mistake of taking what he says as true. However he has his moments. The bath is one of the types designed for older people to stop them having to step over the high side.

95

Decent,

20/11/2008 14:07:21
Sorry to keep going off subject but I am bored today. Did you guys notice mystic seems to have gone to his own wee website in the sky. Do you think if I start a petition to get rid of full stop man that will work too?
I'll put you down James.
96

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:07:48
#120

But he said he kept coal in the bath?
97

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:08:45
#121

I.aint.getting.on.no.damn.tram.fool.
98

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

20/11/2008 14:13:17
"TIE has secured a fixed price of £87m to build the line"

Heh. Nobody's getting fixed price these days. Wait until next year and offer them half of that.
99

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:15:44
And its easier to transport coal to the bathroom if you can rest your sack on Thora's seat ( chair lift )
100

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 14:17:16
I hear that the Holiday Inn Hotel is getting rid of staff and will close soon
101

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 14:17:33
that's the one down @ Ocean Terminal
102

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 14:18:38
Now if only the Trams had got there quicker !!!
103

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 14:19:08
all these luddite attitudes are harming Edinburgh
104

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:20:32
#131

Luddite attitudes?
105

,

20/11/2008 14:21:28
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106

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:23:15
Tell you what, folks - if the trams had any chance of being successful,(and by succeess I mean running beyond one line) then the PR people would be on here with their ding ding spakker talk.

They're not because they've been handed another brief.
107

,

20/11/2008 14:23:15
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108

,

20/11/2008 14:23:51
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109

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 14:26:10
we need some music on here,
I'm listening to talking Heads just now,

"we're on a road to nowhere".....lalalaalaaa
110

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 14:26:29
then "highway to Hell"
111

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:27:48
What does Donald Anderson think about the invasion of Iraq in 2003?
112

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 14:27:58
what's happening to all the soil that is being dug up ?

Is it being stuffed down carillon's workies legs, or is it being stored in the roof of the Clowncil buildings ?
113

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:29:16
Where does the Councillor Reverend Ewan Aitken stand on Labour's support of George Bush, given that Guantanamo Bay isn't exactly founded on Christian principles?
114

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:30:36
Can Jenny Dawe operate a Roland TR-808?
115

James (1),

20/11/2008 14:31:08
#136 deggo yeggoo speggko eggy language?
116

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:31:27
Is Cammy Day a fan of Country & Western music?
117

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:32:10
Has Alex Salmond ever met Jocky Wilson?
118

,

20/11/2008 14:34:31
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119

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 14:35:04
alex salmond IS jocky wilson
120

,

20/11/2008 14:35:21
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121

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:35:45
Welcome to tramtime, with your host Rugby Newsagent.

"Hullo uvrybuddi! You're my besh pal!"
122

,

20/11/2008 14:35:55
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123

,

20/11/2008 14:37:00
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124

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:39:24
Trams cancelled. Edinburgh breathes a sigh of relief.

"But they've got trams in Berlin"

Yes, Berlin isn't Edinburgh.

Die trams sind schweinscheisse.

125

tumshie heid,

20/11/2008 14:43:05
#131 A luddite is afraid of new technology. Something that a tram can't be described as.
126

,

20/11/2008 14:46:57
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127

,

20/11/2008 14:48:24
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128

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:52:36
#158

You've got egg all down your blazer.
129

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 14:53:19
Sorry #158, Grozny had trams, they were all used as barricades though
130

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 14:54:37
Mhh why not horse drawn trams ?
When we descent into anarchy, at least then we can kill em and use them as food. The horses not the trams
131

Statsman,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 14:56:24
Phase 1a is now no longer financially viable either. It will have lost a lot of projected passengers due to losing Phase 1b. It's time to pull the plug on the whole thing.
132

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 14:58:37
The parliament building is great and very inexpensive.

People just don't like change. That's why nobody in Edinburgh has broadband or a mobile phone,

L U D D I T E S
133

tumshie heid,

20/11/2008 15:01:07
#157 Woof!
Will there be jakie ejector seats fitted too? Very handy when an unsavoury character sits next to you, just press the button and whoosh he's gone.
134

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 15:01:26
What to do:

Jetpacks for the elderly, and the door in yer bath brigade

Chicago Loop style monorail for everyone else

Sinclair C5 and Segways for the self-styled petrolheads.

Extend the Union Canal into Edinburgh city centre to replace the 22 bus with a ginormous electrically powered Kayak.
135

Bob 2,

20/11/2008 15:04:32
78 AntiEdinburghWhingers

think you contradicting yourself

catch u later
136

Skip McClendon,

20/11/2008 15:12:55
Personally, I think the time is now right to pull the plug on the entire Monotram project.

Spend the money on a better conceived project. Like a giant skyscraper made out of popsicle sticks. Or a 50 foot magnifying glass. Or an escalator to nowhere.
137

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 15:16:39
I remember a bit of research done by some halth institute in London recently. They found that the hands of 40-50% of people on public transport had faecal bacteria on their hands !!!!!!!!!

That's why I ride my motorcycle :0/
/
138

Skip McClendon,

20/11/2008 15:17:13
#172

Hey, it's my tax money that's paying for it.
139

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 15:21:27

The tram scheme is probably off the rails for the time being.

Let's look at the facts:

renilson, gallagher, ross, brand and now even sargent have all went.

The trams are costing too much so they kick line B.

But without line B it's not a network, just a one-dimensional shopper tram that won't get used.

Domino effect basically.

Ding ding, funeral for a light rail infrastructure that the council were desperate for, so they could go on a jolly to Sweden and return full of stories about modern vibrant cities and their trams.

The bath door has been opened folks, and the water's spilling out. Point of no return has been reached, trams will not be running. Rugby Newsagent is just there as the bad news breaker.
140

Skip McClendon,

20/11/2008 15:27:41
#176

The cakes must be mellowing you out now. I was worried earlier that some of the more exotic ingredients weren't agreeing with you.
141

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 15:30:41
I hear that there is s new book & film coming out that features Edinburgh ---- "Tramspotting"
142

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 15:30:55
Here's Mario commuting to work through the modern and vibrant streets of a tram enabled city

http://www.cable-car-guy.com/images/cable_tram_20_8_98.jpg
143

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 15:31:02
or is that "bamspotting"
144

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 15:32:14
#180

Those jokes are so old a moth flew off them
145

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 15:34:47
181# thanks
146

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 15:35:17

L U D D I T E S
147

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 15:35:47
Do you think we don't have the will left to take this all seriously ?

148

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 15:36:29
DiD I spell it incoorectly ?
149

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 15:36:48
'Mon the trams!

150

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 15:39:44
#173 roadstohell,

"40-50% of people on public transport had faecal bacteria on their hands"

That just proves that we should 'dump' (on) the trams.

The whole scheme is crazy, it's cancellation will be the only good thing to come out of the current recession.

The Scottish Exec should tell TIE/Edinburgh to get lost when they come begging for more money.

151

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 15:40:51
Case of Corona and free miniature of Glayva to #134
152

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 15:46:40
Moral Dilemma

"you're in the cab of a runaway tram and see five people tied to the track ahead. You have the option of sending the tram on to the track forking off to the left, on which only one person is tied. Surely you should send the tram left, killing one to save five." ?

153

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 15:46:52
TRAM CHIEF STEPS DOWN

Crawford Arbuthnott (63) of The Grange has stepped down as tram chief.

"There'll be no trams" said Arbuthott yesterday in a press conference at Leith Victoria boxing Club.

Sipping a glass of water Mr Arbuthnott, who is affectionately known ans Rugby Newsagent on account of never having had a real job, said "Helen Martin's the one for me, gina Davidson's too young, she probably listens to youngster music like Black sabbath and the Jackson 5. Trams, I mind the trams"
154

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 15:47:48
188# thank you
155

,

20/11/2008 15:51:51
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Reason:
156

World class concrete,

20/11/2008 15:52:59
Well, this all puts paid to the "Line 1 is just the start, we'll be building more lines in no time" arguments.

Not even both the lines they planned to build now, let alone any more lines. Definitely not a network then. So what's the point of just one line? They should have stuck to building a rail link to the airport which was all that was ever needed.

By the way, there was even less activity than usual in the Leith Walk excavations this lunchtime. They must know the writing is on the wall for the trams.

Cancel the whole mess now!
157

,

20/11/2008 16:01:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
158

Uncle Piehead,

20/11/2008 16:07:08
So we're all agreed then - trams may or may not be a good thing.

159

SV650s,

20/11/2008 16:07:51
It's not the lack of money they're worried about, it's Granton's teenage numpties who'll be stoning the trams on a Friday night after a couple of bottles of Bucky...
160

,

20/11/2008 16:07:53
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161

NHSMail,

Glasgow 20/11/2008 16:10:39
Ha ha all you edinbgg3rs i hope the roadworks are there to 2015
162

,

20/11/2008 16:13:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
163

Decent,

20/11/2008 16:19:59
173 - I'm more worried about the fact they had hands on their hands than the bacteria. Were they mutants?
164

Decent,

20/11/2008 16:20:24
Or maybe weegies?
165

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 16:22:00
#201

Yes, the Evening Times comments are gash. Although if this was in the times it would have your words reproduced with funny lines round it.

___________
| gash :( |
|___________|
166

,

20/11/2008 16:25:56
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167

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 16:26:00
_____________
|
|
| --|
|____________| ASH
168

,

20/11/2008 16:26:27
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169

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 16:27:53
HOW MUCH PROFIT TRAMS WILL MAKE:

£0
170

,

20/11/2008 16:28:00
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171

,

20/11/2008 16:28:43
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172

,

20/11/2008 16:30:55
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173

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 16:34:08
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=+?++~~=+::.:.MMMNNOZNMMN.,,,=~:==+=~:::
++=~=++~,:=+,~,MO8OOZZZM..+:,:=+=~+++==:
~~+++=::~++:+~,..8OOO8,,:~,==:::++===+++
+++=:::++~~+~:~=~~Z?$~:~:==:=+~::=++====
++~::=++~=+=:~+~=+::==:+::=+~++=~:~++++~
~::~+++:++~:~++~+=::=+:++:~==~=++=::~=++
174

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 16:35:13
#215

mickey mouse after he got run over by a tram
175

snoopy,

Still waiting an eternity on a night bus to Mussel 20/11/2008 17:07:34
Well done the council.

In the matter of a few months they've managed to start a project hardly anyone had paid money for to cover it, run an award winning bus company into the ground and ruin the streets in the city centre of Edinburgh.

All without even trying!

**claps**
176

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 17:10:00
The contractors must be waiting with baited breath for cancellation of the Granton spur - they pick up £5 million in compensation for offering a fixed price contract.
Signed up for by TIE when costs were obviously starting to escalate for the rest of the network.
How much will the No22 replacement cost us in the end ?
It should never have been started.
177

,

20/11/2008 17:22:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
178

snoopy,

Still waiting an eternity on a night bus to Mussel 20/11/2008 17:24:56
#218

EEN says it's £512 million but I bet that this project will be like the parliament and will just continue to rise and rise.

Imagine how many new BUSES we could buy for £512 million!
179

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 17:27:02
Go on Jenny Hee Haw, you can't put it off for ever, the longer you leave it the worse it will be, go on, you know you have to, go on do it, do it now..............
180

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 17:28:35
Nobody here will say " I told you so", just take a deep breath and say it ............ go on, go on go on go on go on ...............
181

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 17:37:52
is that "gibber" with fries to go ?
182

Pond Hall,

20/11/2008 17:44:27
comment 217 - best comment of the day

Yip The Edinburgh Council are making a fine mess of Edinburghs bus network.

The roadworks at Portobello are a Classic example.

A journey from Hell is the best description, 75mins from Edinburgh City Centre to Port Seton. 25 mins longer than usual

The Lights apparently timed to give cars from Seafield Priority, 15mins at a snails pace

Even East Lothian has joined in, with temp traffic lights in Port Seton Tonight.

Back on the bike tomorrow.
183

snoopy,

20/11/2008 18:27:14
#226 why thank you!

And I will say it (to the council) WE TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!

Now I emailed Lothian Buses the other day to complain about the massive reductions in services. In the reply I got, one of the reasons listed for the reductions (along with the credit crunch) was the "disruption to the network caused by the tram works." Now common sense tells you that if there is going to be a reduction in services, fewer bus drivers will be needed and there will be redundancies.

Now given that LB are owned by the council, that in effect means that the council are making their own staff redundant for this blooming tram network!

And I thought that the government always wanted to CRACK DOWN on unemployment not rise it!

Also, in the article the other day in EEN it said that the bus services in East Lothian could be cut back. Now given that East Lothian is NOT getting the trams, why should we have to suffer?!
184

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 18:27:27
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7740439.stm
185

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 18:32:27
Remember that Carillon got it's fingers badly burned in a similar fiasco with Nottingham trams, so much so that they said they would never become involved in a tram project again. So what inducements were Carillon promised by CEC/TIE etc etc to get involved with Edinburgh's tram fiasco, mhhh , must have been something very,very tempting
186

Bob 2,

20/11/2008 18:34:39
78 AntiEdinburghWhingers

I think you in for a surprise when the trams are up and running.

read the comments, the plans online don't give that much detail.

well up until recently, Edinburgh had an Award Winning Bus Network, NETWORK, its going going .....g

Do you think that it will win another award within the next few years.


Do you think the council and TIE will allow the Trams to be stuck in traffic like the buses are.
Dont think so
you'll find that the Trams will
187

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 18:36:07
Mmhh go to the Carillon website. You will find them crowing about many different types of project that they are proud of. However, absolutely NO mention of the Edinburgh Tram project, !!!!!!

Mhhh already rewriting history and sistancing itself from the disater that is unfolding in front of us, that is Edinburgh trams.
188

Incandescent,

20/11/2008 18:38:53
#227 "has Gorgie_Tony went on Holiday ?"

I think so. So has Jenny M. Wait a minute...
189

Bob 2,

20/11/2008 18:41:09
78 AntiEdinburghWhingers

I think you in for a surprise when the trams are up and running.

read the comments, the plans online don't give that much detail.

well up until recently, Edinburgh had an Award Winning Bus Network, NETWORK, its going going .....g

Do you think that it will win another award within the next few years.


Do you think the council and TIE will allow the Trams to be stuck in traffic like the buses are.
Dont think so

Trams will be given Priority at Junctions, flying through while cars & buses will be held up.


The tram line will provide badly-needed capacity on the massively busy east-west corridor.... so why is LB reducing the frequency of the 22 on the West - city centre north corridor.

East - West - has there been a change to the route, is the Tram Line now heading EAST to via Portobello or Milton Road ? NOPE could be the answer

A tram allows several buses-worth to pick-up and drop-off ..yip but the buses are going to different destinations.

A double deck bus will seat more than a Tram.

We will wait and see the FACTS when the line is up and running...in 2011? 2012? 2013?
190

Bob 2,

20/11/2008 18:42:17
in fact when you watch the tram videos there is little sign of any buses or cars on the road.
191

Phil o Brian,

20/11/2008 18:52:24
Hi. I heard a story recently that an owner of a small hotel on the tram route applied to extend his hotel and was told by the planning dept that he would have to contribute £150,000 to the tram scheme, if he wanted approval for his plans. Anybody else heard stories like this. IF its true, its almost theft.
192

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 19:09:05
I heard that there would be a network of tramlines, that they'd be delivered on time adhering to budgetary limits, and with a fare of £1.30

I also heard that Jenny Dawe has a calf that lays golden eggs, and a magic porridge pot.
193

,

20/11/2008 19:20:29
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Reason:
194

john z,

edinburgh 20/11/2008 19:39:51
Edinburgh Trams. A very bad idea. It will NEVER be finished, as the money is running out, the exchange rate with Europe is going the wrong way (big time), and construction costs are going through the roof.

Just think many years from now, tourists on tour BUSES, will get taken to see part of the 'preserved' tram track of the tram system Edinburgh never needed and never finished. Maybe they'll dig up a part of the road, and put it into the museum in chambers street.

Edinburgh trams - a good way to lose a lot of money very quickly.
195

,

20/11/2008 19:40:40
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Reason:
196

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 19:47:27
Oh boy do you see that slide in the share price !!!!

wooops !!!!!!!!!
197

Euan,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 19:48:30
This is great, great news, and is a victory for common sense.

However, the next step HAS to be taken, and that step is to completely scrap the ENTIRE tram project.

Enough is enough.

We have already seen far too much public money poured down the drain..






198

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 19:49:19
Oh boy look at Carillon's trading !!!!!!!!!!!
199

Just a tax payer,

EDINBURGH 20/11/2008 19:52:56
Sooo SAD "they are pulling the plug". It would be better and sensible to SCRAP the CCRAP project and save our schools from closure. Please help: I would like to organise a public protest outside City Chambers to let the "CLOWNCILLORS" know that NOBODY wants the trams.
200

Euan,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 20:15:00
#247

Very well said.

It is utterly disgraceful that The City of Edinburgh is seeing everyday services axed, schools closing, community centers closing and even bus services being cut and not to mention scores of businesses being put under massive financial pressure due to the construction of this insane tram project.

Yet at the same time hundreds of millions of pounds is being squandered before the very eyes of the citizens of this city on a next-to-useless and totally un-necessary tram LINE, yes LINE.

It is so obvious that if this insane project is allowed to continue any further, the local taxpayer is going to be burdened with years, if not decades, of crippling construction and running costs of the trams.

A very sad state of affairs indeed..


201

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 20:27:31
indeed, it seems ridiculous, if this was happening in say France, there would be protests, public & unions etc etc. BUT here we sit meekly, and type away ( I criticise myself here too), and moan, whilst the clowncil just does whatever it wants. I bet it would be impossible to get permission to mount a protest. The clownic will make sure that the Police won't issue any permission, OR it aould get it's Carillon thugs to stop any protest.
202

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 20/11/2008 20:27:40
why.would.a.city.so.small.as.EDINBURGH.go.through.this
203

murren59,

Isle of Arran 20/11/2008 20:33:27
ah hope that this cancellation hus'nae anyhing to do wi' ma auld Embra granny verbally abusin' the skivin' but sensitive workers as reported in yesterday's paper...
204

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 20:33:44
#253 because the clowncil has ideas waaaay above it's station
205

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 20:38:52
Edinburgh is NO less a Capital city for not having trams. Edinburgh was doing very nicely thank you, growing and thriving, BEFORE this madcap scheme was hatched and fed to the gullible mout breathers that comprise our Clowncil. They were fed this and had their egos massaged and were led to believe that we NEEDED this tram line, that the very fate of the City hinged on this nutty project. They were blinded by a vision in which they saw themselves as the shining ,glimmering guardian angels of Edinburgh, and you know what ?

They believed it !!!!!!!!!!

Talk about being blinded by their own vanity and arrogance
206

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 20:46:41
If the trams and the tracks have been manufactured they can auction them off.

They CAN'T build just one line - makes no sense at all and would do **** all to calm traffic.

They can try and pretend they'll get the money later for line B - but that's delusional.

BYE BYE TRAMS

BYE BYE TIE

I hope new tram chief doesn't get his hopes up about still having a job by February.
207

Niko Bellic,

20/11/2008 20:49:09
________________
| |
|trams = gash |
| |
|_______________|
208

Andrew Kent,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 21:16:23
Common sense at last! Woohoo! Bye bye trams! Now all that is needed is to scrap the remaining part of the line and fix the roads. Perhaps the mony saved could go towards the south suburban line, meadowbank and some new schools?!
209

Andrew Kent,

Edinburgh 20/11/2008 21:56:31
Interesting:

'Carillion said the "payment issues" were down to "contractual matters" and denied rumours it was going bust.'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7740439.stm
210

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 22:08:07
Carillon is going bust, the work on the flood protection scheme @ the Inch has all but stopped
211

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 22:14:22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4O2xXMOFsw
212

roadstohell,

20/11/2008 22:39:38
how rude
213

Ian down under,

Musselburgh 21/11/2008 01:51:54
Stunning, what a bunch of backward looking moaners we've become. We get the chance of the first link in a decent, modern transport system, albeit a small part and all people do is cheer. Great to know we can get on with increasing road traffic with all the fumes and mess and the need to find more parking places. We know better than these foreign nutters with their clean and efficient electric tram and rail systems.
Don't forget when the oil runs out and the price will keep on rising over time, the current fall is temporary, we will rue the day we lost the chance to break away from the oil/car duopolies.By then we'll have lots of postings about how if we'd had the foresight we'd have invested in tramways and railways back in the early 2000s.
Just as well the industrial revolution and the coming of the railways was a while ago, if these comments are anything to go by we'd be walking to Berwick or Inverkeithing to catch the trains because we'd have been too smart to allow them into our town with all their construction disruption.
Enjoy the traffic jams for ever I'm off overseas.
214

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 21/11/2008 08:19:22
BBC News 24 as I type yalking about Manchester trams.

Manchester been heralded as tram heaven by Edinburgh councillors after their visit there.

Comments are congestion is disgusting, public transport adds an hour and a half to her journey.

Guess what, now looking at congestion charging!!! This is what the people in Edinbiurgh who aree qualified in road management have been saying, it's the Swiss model. Bring in trams, create the additional congestion, then slip in congestion charges.

Look at Manchester now - pull the plug on the whole mess.
215

tumshie heid,

21/11/2008 10:09:19
#268 Where do you think the energy to power the trams comes from? Its not a giant hamster on a wheel at Cockenzie you know. The coal for the power station comes in by those nasty lorries and trains burning diesel fuel.
The trams are dead, Hoorah!
216

,

21/11/2008 11:21:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
217

Redbruce,

Edinburgh 21/11/2008 15:13:41
#78

at the show-and-tell at St Mary's Cathedral I was told different things by different TIE reps, but the most candid of them told me that routes 10, 22, and 25 were definitely for the chop, and that 11 12 and 16 were to be terminated at St Andrew's Square, the plan being that this was to be a "Hub".
22 and 25 fair enough as the tram duplicates a fair bit of these routes, but not the others.
The phrase used is "intergrated" transport service. It will certainly be "interrupted", going from bus to tram to bus is not going to get me to use the tram. It's an unattractive prospect. I suppose we have been getting softened up for this blow for a few years, with the introduction of the ugly light-green cones on bus-stops saying "Interchange"
I am happy with the bus service down Leith walk as it is and don't want it diminished. With regards to passenger carrying capacity the tram will take 250 every 15 minutes, taking off six bus routes is a 6 x 70 = 420 reduction. 250 would probably do outside peak hours, but not in the morning and evening rush .
Suggestion to speed up buses- bring back conductors. Bus journeys became slower and a bit tedious when One-Man-Operated buses were introduced in the 70's. The trams will have conductors so why not the buses?
218

T-bone,

21/11/2008 15:33:14
#270 tumshie heid, you are exactly that....neeps for brains!
#268 is absolutely spot on.
Travelling regularly, on business, to many European cities, Stockholm, Freiburg, Munich, Dresden, and many others, they all have immaculate tram, and in some cases underground systems which function on schedule and with thousands of passengers using these services daily. They do not see the levels of city centre congestion abroad that we see here in Britain.

When I tell my foreign colleagues that not one city in Scotland has a tram system they can't believe it. We are DECADES behind, and if we continue cancelling public transport initiatives our cities will grind to a halt, and parking charges will end up through the roof!

Fortunately I don't work in Edinburgh Aberdeen Dundee or Glasgow but I feel sorry for those who do!!
219

molehill mountain,

edinburgh 23/11/2008 09:48:22
Bored..Trams are happening get used to it..Edinburgh has moved on.History
220

22shifter,

Edinburgh 26/11/2008 21:11:49
With the admission that line 1b will not go ahead any pretense that there will be a Tram "system" or "network" is gone, just one amazingly expensive line linking the airport, where it's not wanted, the financial sector at the Gyle where soon the only things moving will be empty 22 buses and tumbleweed, and the shiny new waterfront where building is coming to a standstill.
Forget the construction costs, the operating loses will cost the Edinburgh tax payers dearly for years.
The original scheme from the late 80/early 90s was actually more sensible, making use of old rail lines and tunneling under the city centre, an Edinburgh version of the Tyneside metro which has been a big success.
This scheme is more about transferring taxpayers money to corporations than providing Edinburgh with world class public transport.
221

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 08/12/2008 11:18:41
If the tram project is cancelled then the developers are laughing all the way to the bank as they will still have to be paid the cost of the project, thats in the contract. having said that if it is cancelled then I want all the deisel buses withdrawn as a health hazzard and replaced by electric buses. I have consulted my legal team over this

 

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