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Mothers step up pram ban battle



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Published Date: 06 October 2008
MUMS are planning a leafleting and poster campaign as they step up their fight for better access for prams and buggies on Lothian Buses.
Campaigner Gillian Richards, a mother of twins from Willowbrae, has designed a poster highlighting the confusion about which ones are allowed on buses.

She says drivers are equally confused about which items to allow on, and is pushing the company
to adopt a "common sense" approach. They are also considering holding a demonstration, as well as handing a petition to the Scottish Parliament.

The campaigners have already won support from the city council and the Equality and Human Rights Commission for Scotland, as well as disability groups.

They have all called for pram users to be allowed to use the disabled space as long as it is not required for a wheelchair, and say there is no legal basis for the ban.

But Lothian Buses has insisted that its policy is in line with the Disability Discrimination Act. It said drivers can only allow buggies on that can be easily folded if required.

Mrs Richards, 36, a graphic designer, has designed the poster, which is based on Lothian Buses' information given to drivers.

She said: "When I saw the poster produced by Lothian Buses, I thought I just had to highlight the confusion this is causing. There are such an array of prams and travel systems that this makes it very difficult for the drivers. Their managers have put them in a position where they have to try to tell which buggy's which.

"The ones they recommend have no head support, and so are only suitable for babies over six months.

"I know in the past women weren't able to take prams on buses, but things are different now. There is an expectation that everyone can use public transport. Most mums go out to work now, and so they may need to use the bus to take their child to nursery."

Article 12 in Scotland, the organisation that promotes children's and young people's rights, has offered to donate £200 to the campaign to help print posters and flyers.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission for Scotland has already called for a "more flexible approach" and said allowing access for wheelchairs should not mean banning prams.

The city council has also called for an end to the "fiasco" and is set to meet Lothian Buses to discuss their policy.

Campaigner Catriona Black has launched a petition to the Scottish Parliament, which now has more than 1200 signatures.

She said: "We've had so many authorities making it clear that this ban is unnecessary and unreasonable.

"It's incredible that they have just ignored the pressure up to now. We're certainly not giving up."





The full article contains 460 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 October 2008 9:22 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Lothian Buses
 
1

Skip McClendon,

06/10/2008 12:13:58
Good luck to them.

I expect the usual moans from parent/child hating whingers on here though.

Only allowing folding buggies discriminates against the very youngest babies, who whom such buggies are not suitable.

With winter coming on, the idea of week or month old babies not being allowed to access buses in their prams is a scary one. At that age, babies are very fragile and can have their health endangered by being too cold.

The Lothian Buses ban discriminates against the youngest, most fragile members of society and it has no grounding in law. Disabled access is a requirement, as it should be. But nowhere in anti-discrimination law does it say you should discriminate against very young babies as a consequence of improving disabled access.
2

Grouchy,

Edinburgh 06/10/2008 12:18:29
Maybe some entrepreneur could start a bus company especially for mums with prams then there would be no argument about giving wheel chair users priority on Lothian Buses.
3

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 12:20:20

Yesterday I had a premonition that today I would have deja vu.

4

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 12:21:02

I had terrible trouble getting out of bed this morning.

Still, that's velcro pyjamas for you.
5

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 12:21:54

When I got up, I had a cup of coffee and a hot bath. Some might say that's a lot to drink but I was hella thirsty, likesay.
6

Liz,

Edinburgh 06/10/2008 12:25:56
You know what, I have never seen anyone in a wheelchair on a bus in Edinburgh.

I would love to know if this was a coincidence or this is acually a rather pointless and tiresome piece of news. How many journeys are taken every day by wheelchair users? Surely this is a typical case of using a sledgehammer aproach to something that was never a issue in the first place. If a wheelchair user wants on then the pram has to go simple, end of all these pointless news articles at the same time.

What are they proposing happens if two wheelchair users want travel at the same time?
7

alex paterson,

edinburgh 06/10/2008 12:28:08
Let the lazy Moos walk,its amazing how far you can get giving the kid fresh air,and it will sleep better at night.
8

john3,

06/10/2008 12:29:14
Perhaps tiny babies could be carried by mothers. One mother told me she does not want to get a folding pram as her 14 month old baby is more comfortable in a big one. She also said she would be willing to get off with the big pram if she got a tranfer ticket for the next bus? Perhaps LRT could oncsider this option and remove another of the whingers complaints. Ver very few of them consider giving up their seat despite occupying a large space. They might even consider buying locally.
9

Skip McClendon,

06/10/2008 12:29:37
#6 - Liz

"What are they proposing happens if two wheelchair users want travel at the same time?"

Precisely. The Lothian Buses policy is mince.

Blaming it all on babies is a simple out for them. The real answer is that their buses are not accessible enough. If 2 wheelchair users want on, they have no answer.

10

Cumberland Sausage,

06/10/2008 12:30:55
#7 - you're so predictable.
11

john3,

06/10/2008 12:31:59
#6 obviously does not travel much by bus. Remember the reason bus designs changed was to accommodate wheelchairs and if she cares to get out and about she will be surprised how many do use the bus service and perhaps more would do so if they knew they could board
into the space provided for them.
12

Linmal,

Livingston 06/10/2008 12:32:43
Does nobody stop to think that there might actually be a health and safety issue here? ie - a foldable pram is safer for all bus users, not just mothers and babies? Some of these large prams take up an inordinant amount of space and can be very difficult to manoevure round particularly if you aren't too good at getting around in the first place.

This lady says they are looking for a common sense approach, well I would say that works both ways.

And don't you think we have heard enough about prams anyway - it stopped being news about a month ago.

Lets face it, we are all getting a bit bored of it.

P.S. - ever heard of the saying "you can please all of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time" Well I would say this applies here. You are just never going to win no matter what is decided on this one.
13

Marathon,

06/10/2008 12:33:28
what a lot of pointless skoosh!
14

the dog,

embra 06/10/2008 12:33:42
#3 same here
15

dobsta,

06/10/2008 12:34:21
maybe reason you dont see as many wheelchair users on buses is the fact some cant be bothered to take abuse from pram/buggy users when the are politely asked to vacate DESIGTATED space.and yes this does happen on regular basis,just ask the drivers who will confirm this.
16

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 12:34:47

#6

You know what? I have seen a wheelchair on a bus in Edinburgh. In fact, I've seen this phenomenon twice in about ten years.

The statistical probability of two wheelchair users requiring space on the same bus at the same time is so slight that it is more of a philosophical notion than a question, like the one about whether a treee makes a sound if it falls over in a deserted forest.

17

Skint and Appalled,

on top of old smokey 06/10/2008 12:42:20
Mrs Richards comments .... "know in the past women weren't able to take prams on buses, but things are different now. There is an expectation that everyone can use public transport. Most mums go out to work now, and so they may need to use the bus to take their child to nursery.

Sorry what's different now - except Mums are lazier.

Most Mums, life myself, have always worked and had to get babies/children to nursery, school, etc. etc. We managed without any problems because we had no choice and had to!


18

Nemo 1977,

Edinburgh 06/10/2008 12:50:38
#6 - me neither. And I am on a bus every day
19

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 06/10/2008 12:50:57
What pram ban?

The bus drivers are applying common sense and letting prams on board.

Why don't we all just quietly forget about this ridiculous experiment and return to normality?
20

Liz,

Edinburgh 06/10/2008 12:53:47
#11
Yes, you are correct, I have never got on a bus in my life - I just came on and made that up to get some attention....

Sadly, I do need to travel on our awful buses very often (not quite every day but not far off) and it is true I have never seen a wheelchair user on them what is the point of saving the space if it is so rarely used.

21

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 06/10/2008 12:54:14
#16:

Good point there.

Almost every time I travel on a bus, there is someone there with a pram or buggy, complete with baby or toddler.

I've seen a wheelchair on a bus about three or four times in the last few years.

It's bus lane syndrome all over again---reserve part of something for a minority and to hell with the consequences.
22

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 06/10/2008 13:01:00
#22:

I can't recall.

However, I saw an old bloke who had wet his pants on a bus the other day.
23

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 13:08:38
When was the last time anyone saw someone famous on the bus?

Me, I've only ever seen famous folks on trains and aeroplanes.

On the Glasgow edinburgh train I once seen Magnus Magnnusson.

And I saw william reid of the Mary Chain on the train, but it might just have been a geezer with stupid hair.

At airports/ on planes there's always a celebrity. I seen Craig "Wee Nation" Brown once at the airport. Taxi for a fonny or what?
24

JT,

06/10/2008 13:11:37
what happens if a wheelchair user wants to get on during the rush hour and the bus is near to capacity, are some people who pay for their ticket unlike alot of wheelchair users (who get a concession pass) to get off and wait for the next bus?? Dont fancy that this winter! Its the same with buggies? If the bus is full, you have to wait for the next one, the rest of the bus users have to wait.
25

Journalistic licence,

06/10/2008 13:15:51
#19 and #6 if you use the #15 bus then you won't, as it's two steps up to get on, they don't lower for access and there's a huge big pole in the middle of the entrance.
26

bumf,

06/10/2008 13:36:47
The simplest solution is for pram users to boycott the buses until the European Court of Human Rights has had the time to make a definitive ruling on this.
27

,

06/10/2008 13:45:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
28

Casey Beer,

06/10/2008 13:47:25
"MUMS are planning a leafleting and poster campaign"

When did 'leaflet' become a verb? If it has, why hasn't 'poster' become one too?

Mums could be planning a 'leaflet and poster' campaign.
29

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 13:50:13

Leafleting became a verb in 1925. Poster hasn't become a verb because nobody hands posters to people onna de street.
30

Mallory,

Edinburgh 06/10/2008 13:57:04
..Only allowing folding buggies discriminates against the very youngest babies, who whom such buggies are not suitable. ... says #1

What nonsense.

Large parts of the world will never suffer the infestation of eight-wheel designer child movers. How do women and youngsters manage there? Back and front harnesses for a start.

Then again these sensible ladies don't need to take so much in the way of creams, nappies, liquids, feeds, issues etc with them.

If you can't collapse the pram or stroller then keep it out of our buses and show a load more consideration for those who need the wheelchair space.

31

Mallory,

Edinburgh 06/10/2008 13:58:26
#25

That's nothing Joe - I once shared a taxi with Cyril Smith MP. It was quite a squeeze..
32

ikonoclast,

06/10/2008 14:05:13
29 & 31, your borderline racist comments (i hope they were intended to be humourous) actually hint at a solution: male and female-only buses. As most pram pushers are female, they would automatically use the womens' buses, while all wheelchair users could be designated as male and use the mens'. Problem solved!

To anyone who says this is a stupid unusable scheme that could never see the light of day, I suggest you have a look at how the tram project is progressing.
33

Skip McClendon,

06/10/2008 14:07:12
#34

Yawn. It's not about babies verus wheelchair access. You have fallen for Lothian Buses spin.

This entire debate has been manafuctured by Lothian Buses to cover up for the fact that many of their buses are not wheelchair friendly. Blaming it on the babies is just a convenient excuse.
34

Linmal,

Livingston 06/10/2008 14:17:44
#38 I would not say those comments were "borderline" racist. I would say they are blatantly racicst and as such, totally inappropriate.
35

NorT,

Edinburgh 06/10/2008 14:18:38
There is an easy answer - buggies only allowed on buses of they are folded up.
36

,

06/10/2008 14:26:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
37

Pacob75,

06/10/2008 14:29:23
39 - Do you actually get the bus often?

I ask because from what I can see MOST of LB's buses seem wheelchair friendly to me. Also, I think it is YOU who have fallen for the EEN spin - they manufactured this debate not the bus company.
38

Decent,

06/10/2008 14:31:48
Oh for God's sake you're not even allowed to say black now without being called racist! Get a life Linmal - how's this for racist - get back to Livingston and stay there. What about Tim dimwit being so anti-Scottish? Nobody calls him racist!
39

ikonoclast,

06/10/2008 14:32:32
40, I was giving you both the benefit of the doubt in case irony was your intent. If it was, then you need to make it much more obvious. There are posters on this site who would take your comments at face value.
40

Mallory,

Edinburgh 06/10/2008 14:32:58
#39 - No skip I ain't fallen for spin. From either 'side'

Fact is that I find it very offensive that selfish parents block limited space on buses, and in some shops, cos they are often too thick or too selfish to consider others.

Lothian buses' present 'rules' need to be better enforced and parents should fold their buggies before boarding.
41

Skip McClendon,

06/10/2008 14:39:35
#48

And what about parents of very young babies, for whom folding buggies are unsuitable? Should those parents risk the necks of their fragile babies by carrying them in an unsuitable buggy, without neck support, just so that you can have a wee bit more legroom?
42

KTCB41,

06/10/2008 14:40:46
I though that Lothian Buses moved to their ban on non-folding push chairs after having tried the common sense approach but been confrunted by some people who refused to give the designated wheelchair space up to a wheelchair users.
This "campaign" seems to suggest that Lothian Buses have not already tried that. Perhaps someone can clear this up?

What ever happens and the rights and wrongs of this Lothian Buses seem likley to loose this one so for the benefit of their own PR they should just say that people with push chairs can get on the buses no mater how big or inflexible they are.
43

An Enemy of the People,

06/10/2008 14:47:37
What about obese folk who use those battery powered three wheelers. Do they count as disabled if their battery runs out? It would need a crane to get them onto a bus. Maybe Lothian should be planning for that too.
44

o.a.p. jambo,

on the back straight 06/10/2008 14:58:38
I have already made my position quite clear on this subject and I will not be repeating it !
45

Mallory,

Edinburgh 06/10/2008 15:08:00
#48

try http://www.littlepossums.co.uk/

there er plenmty others
46

Skip McClendon,

06/10/2008 15:17:49
#55

I don't need one, thanks. I don't have a small baby, but I am considerate towards those who do.

I just love the general tone of the anti-parent posts on here - "Parents are selfish, blah, blah blah".

These people need a new dictionary. "Selfish" means people who are only concerend with themselves. Parents are concerned with providing the best for a child, which is a different matter entirely.

The people who want babies kicked off buses so that THEY themselves can have more legroom / a quieter journey etc, etc are the truly selfish ones.
47

o.a.p. jambo,

on the back straight 06/10/2008 15:18:49
I think I made a mistake in my earlier post but I'm not sure.
Think I'll take my bike for a walk and get the Sunday papers.
48

Linmal,

Livingston 06/10/2008 15:30:48
#41 The references to black and jew in those two postings were blatantly racist and have no place in decent society.

#46 What has this to do with anything? I am entitled to my opinion, as are you, but not in a way that is offensive to others. And no I won't go back to Livingston and stay there. I'm an Edinburgh girl, just happen to live in Livingston but Edinburgh is my home.
49

,

06/10/2008 15:38:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
50

,

06/10/2008 15:42:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
51

Starburst,

Borders 06/10/2008 16:01:24
What a lot of talk about something that was taken into account when giving PRAM its name.
Simple - take mother and kids on the bus leaving the pram and get the
PRAM-TO-YOU-LATER perambulater???
52

spud the enforcer,

06/10/2008 16:03:29
god forbid how the hell can this pathetic hack keep getting away with dragging up the pram non story, was hazel mollisons last journo job as a writer for the beano
53

handsome love guru. And very rich. HEE HEE HE HE,

06/10/2008 16:14:47
Try walking, no wonder scotland is right up there in terms of obesity. The places were designed for disabled passengers not lazy pram pushers, who moan when a disabled person boards the bus. Before disabled places were available you had to walk or fold down the buggy/pram.
54

Brodric,

06/10/2008 16:27:47
LOUD SCREAM

When is this going to end? I am sick of hearing about it. LRT made a decision and they should be allowed to abide by it. The spaces were created for wheelchair users. Mums thought that that was a good idea and wanted to jump onto the bandwagon.

Agree with threads 12 Linmal and 18 Skint and Appalled.

Thon wifie heading the whole thing obviously has nothing better to do with her time. And a well wrapped babe in a pram is not going to catch a life threatening cold. There's more chance of that for the wheelchair user.
55

Linmal,

Livingston 06/10/2008 16:38:49
#60 Was there a joke?!?! I don't think so! I like a laugh as much as anyone but not at the expense of someone else's colour or religion.
56

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 16:52:09

#65, no there was no joke: when people say something you must take it literally, like when Ian Brown from Tramchester said "I am the resurrection" - he really did mean he was the messiah.

Bernard Manning, he was a funny man.
He could tell onetwothreefour five jokes just like that
Jesus, he was a funny man.
57

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 16:53:28

Th trams are on strike for the next three days. Rosa Parks will have to borrow my Cinquecento instead of hogging my tram seat.
58

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 16:54:07

#67 you are a racist ignorant thug
59

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 16:54:42

#68 shut it, ya secular Christian HONKY
60

,

06/10/2008 17:00:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
61

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 17:11:48

Sometimes I like to play a percussive tune on an adjacent passenger's head. And sometimes I don't.
62

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 17:15:55

How comes the only people who use the word 'ignorant' are always pure Foundation Maths type folks?

Riddle me that.
63

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 17:16:17

#73 you are ignorant
64

rs,

. 06/10/2008 17:25:04
AAAAAAAAGGGGHHH


IS THIS STORY STILL RUNNING and the same comments again and again

the EN WOULD be better just setting a link to the other 5 or 6 times that it has run this story.
65

Flies roond shïte,

06/10/2008 17:29:09
Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z...

Yeah, there are some lovely steaming piles of it on here today. But which to choose? It's all pungent!
66

,

06/10/2008 17:47:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
67

Joe Smith.,

Moscows 06/10/2008 17:50:04

I mind the auld days when people had respect for the weans n that, know?

Pure let rem oan ra bus n that, know?

See theez mawz wi' thir protest, ah hink it's proper sivil rites n that, no?

Goanny len mi a tenner fur ma tram ferr? Ah'm no a beggar ahm wearin a BergHoss jaikit
68

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 17:54:06

2 THINGS I NEED TO KNOW:

1) Why do I get a screensavers spamvert 'tribal fusion' every time I log on to EEN. Is this EEN's doing?

2) Why was Saino's at Rose Street shut today for 'unforeseen circumstances'? Did somebody die in the tinned soup aisle?
69

Rollo Tommasi,

06/10/2008 17:58:48
Good grief. There wouldn't be a problem here if all parents could be trusted to fold up a buggy or leave the bus if a wheelchair user needed on the bus. Unfortunately, experience shows that too many can't.

Instead of campaigning against Lothian Buses, why don't these parents lobby their fellow parents to behave responsibly and reasonably if they're allowed to take a buggy onto the bus? And why don't they highlight bus-friendly buggies to recommend to expectant parents? There are plenty of foldable buggies on the market that are suitable for small babies - including some of the cheapest.
70

MARCHER,

Edinburgh 06/10/2008 18:00:40
Answer one question for me: What did mothers do before these buses were on the road?

Am sure you know the answer - we all folded up our prams to get on the bus or walked in winter or sun, I did exactly that with my own children.

#59 - I have been on a bus umpteen times with a wheelchair user and the abuse from the mothers at the time occupying the space is dreadful - on numerous occasions they have been abusive and absolutely refuse to give up the space for a wheelchair user. Not that long ago, I was on a 29 bus when a wheelchair user came on and a mother was there with a 3 yr old toddler in a foldable buggy. She ranted and raved about having to give up the space - even threw the child's toy at the bus driver, resulting in him getting the police.


I really hope that Lothian Buses win to be honest - its easy to fold up a pram with a small toddler/baby. Think its a case that since they feel they don't have to do it, then they will not.
71

Not a taxi lover.,

06/10/2008 18:20:04
I concur with #80 & #81.
72

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 18:30:13

It's not a "pram ban battle" - it's a rattle chucked out of the pram.

It's all bravado - wee wee and mustard
73

Truthman,

DC 06/10/2008 18:50:19
As I recall, real cows are not this pushy.
74

The real dracula,

06/10/2008 19:53:13
Oh for goodness sake cant this subject be allowed to die.

Its trivial and boring. Its obvious some of these parents have far too much time on their hands
75

lothianer,

06/10/2008 20:57:26
As a Lothian Bus Driver. If passengers were to read the notices on ALL Wheelchair Accessale Buses, It states "Only ONE unfolded baby buggy allowed on this bus - additional buggies must be folded". Also there is the "This space MUST be vacated for a Wheelchair user"

So basically, If you have a buggy, you unfortunately can't board the bus, and if a Wheelchair User wishes to board, you MUST vacate the space accordingly.

Notices carrying almost identical wording can be found on Buses in Fife and Manchester. So its just not Lothian Buses!

And in my 2 years as a Bus Driver I have carried atleast an average of 3 Wheelchairs a week, sometimes 3-4 in a day! And I have also received abuse from Parents with a Buggy or Pram when they cannot Board the Vehicle due to a Wheelchair being "in their space".

In turn I have also received abuse from Wheelchair Users when either a Parent with a Buggy or Pram or even a person with just shopping refuses to vacate the Wheelchair Space.

I also note the lack of mention about the amount of abuse us Drivers take on a DAILY basis. We get no thanks! just F-ing and C-ing from the passengers.

In my own opinion, Buggies or Prams should be allowed but if a Wheelchair wishes to board, the space MUST be vacated, no arguments!

76

Poetess50,

Dundee 06/10/2008 21:03:12
If I pay for my seat on a bus, why should I have to give it up for someone with a pram? I am happy to give up my seat for a disabled or elderly person, but NOT someone with a pram! After all, the babies already have a seat, and the parents can stand!!!
77

Bob 2,

06/10/2008 21:05:02
This article sums up todays society

SELFISH and all they think about is Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me
78

snoopy,

Musselburgh 06/10/2008 21:18:14
#86 Very well said.

I've noticed, ever since this story appeared in EEN that a lot more mothers have been asking the drivers if it's ok to take their buggy on this bus (well on the buses I've been travelling on anyway). Everything would be fine if ALL mothers were going to do this, but sadly they're not.

And when are mothers going to learn that the wheelchair space is not "their space"?
79

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

06/10/2008 22:01:37
#4 - well you shouldn't put them on your boyfriend
80

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

06/10/2008 22:02:19
#3 - I saw that one coming
81

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

06/10/2008 22:03:28
#5 - and you've got the stomach for it, to say nothing of your mouth
82

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

06/10/2008 22:05:14
#20 - a bus driver applying common sense ? C'mon, your having a laugh
83

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

06/10/2008 22:07:32
#73 - well said, never a truer word
84

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 22:34:54

#90 - 94

Your maw sits on a washing machine for thrills
85

Brodric,

06/10/2008 22:54:29
No 95 - sitting on the washing machine is no big deal - or insult. You should try it sometime - or have you already>>>
86

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 06/10/2008 23:04:49

What a comeback, Antio.
87

spud the enforcer,

06/10/2008 23:37:27
i totally agree with Lothianer, only tonight coming home from work i witnessed a ignorant mother refusing to fold up her buggy thing as a wheelchair was coming on, that poor driver took loads of abuse and NO ONE except me had the courage to stand up and tell her to shut her chavvy gob and do as she was told, anyway that same ned maw was on the bus as i got on and i tripped over her humvee buggy as it was sticking way out into the gangway, she got a mouthfull from me for that,

remember though its not all mothers with prams buggies that cause problems, 99% are fine its just the ignorant chavvy neds who think the world owes them a living
88

Julian.,

edinburgh 07/10/2008 01:15:12
#98,

And don't tell me, you were with a guy called Walter Mitty.

EEN: Your headline is wrong...as usual. It's a non-foldable pram ban. Those foldable versions are still welcome on board.
89

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 07/10/2008 01:23:12
I was on a 44 bus late last year. The buggy/wheelchair space was occupied by a young mum and her buggy, who got on in Musselburgh at about 9pm at night. The child was less then a year old. When the bus got to Willowbrae Road, a guy in a wheelchair wanted on the bus. The driver turned round to the lady with the buggy and asked if it could be folded to allow the wheelchair user access. The lady explained the child was sleeping and could not fold the buggy. This was explained to the wheelchair user. What did he do? He simply forced his way on board, shouting to the driver that he had every right to the space occupied by the buggy user. Well, the unfortunate mother was most embarrassed by all the commotion and decided to leave the bus. The driver asked her final destination and she told him Leith. This obnoxious wheelchair user caused a young mother and child to get off a bus, many miles from their final destination on a very cold and dark night - shame on the wheelchair user - you ought to be very ashamed of yourself.
90

,

07/10/2008 10:44:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
91

Tarija,

Edinburgh 07/10/2008 11:35:10
I Lived in Aberdeen, Greenock, Inverness, London, New Zeland and Australia (all these cities and countries have excellent busses and are family friendly. I now live in Edinburgh (the capital of Scotland) with my two children and the first thing that I noticed was the unwelcome buss drivers, the terrible service for families and now this band on prams. Edinburgh should be ashame!!
92

Linmal,

Livingston 07/10/2008 11:56:02
#101 What planet are you from? Most people don't act like that? I have come across some very beligerent disabled people and some very nice ones too, but on the whole we have become a very selfish society who only thinks of number 1. The bus service in Edinburgh is, on the whole, a good one, and no-one should have to wait too long. As 100 said it was very bad form for the disabled person to force a mother and baby off the bus at night. He probably would only have waited a few more minutes and, by the way, he doesn't have to pay any fares, the young mum does. What if she didn't have any more money to get home? Shocking, quite shocking.
93

Velvet,

Edinburgh 07/10/2008 12:25:23
I've been virtually housebound by this ban. I'm the disabled mother of an 8 week old baby, cannot drive and couldn't possibly afford to take taxis everywhere (what disabled person can??). Although my buggy folds it's quite heavy (it's what I need to lean on to walk as I can't use my cane when pushing it!), I can't walk far, and I'd need to get the bus to go more than, say, two stops at most.

I'd be unsafe to hold the baby in one arm and somehow fold the buggy and store it with the other, whilst on moving transport. I'd be more than happy, therefore, to get OFF the bus if a wheelchair user - i.e. someone more disabled than me - wanted the space. But instead I'm in a position where even if I'm allowed onto a bus one way, I risk being stranded on the other side of town if I'm going for a hospital appointment or social call.

Disabled people DO NOT WANT this ban. It unnecessarily pitches the Disabled against parents, and this is completely unreasonable of Lothian Buses. When it comes down to it, the two parties concerned - parents, and people with disabilities (who Lothian say they're working to help) don't agree with this. All that's needed is an information campaign to ensure that parents realise the wheelchair space MUST be vacated for a wheelchair user.

With all the information against them, Lothian's stubbornness is the equivalent of a child sticking its fingers in its ears and singing "la la la, I can't HEARRRR YOUUUUU!".
94

babies-on-buses,

Edinburgh 07/10/2008 14:05:08
Join the facebook group @ www.babies-on-buses.co.uk and sign our petition.
95

Decent,

07/10/2008 15:48:49
I would rather stick pins in my eyes.
96

Concerned Mum 1969,

Edinburgh 08/10/2008 14:42:35
I am a bit disappointed about all the negative comments here.
FYI, we (Mums) are not lazy. I personally walk with my pram and my baby pretty much everywhere but sometimes I need to get there a- faster or b-it's simply too far away to walk.
I have read some of you saying you are bored by this issue, well stop reading then. If you are reading that means you are not so bored after all right?

Also, yes 20/30 years ago mothers were doing everything, walking everywhere etc. etc. You also didn't work full time and have everything else to deal with, times have changed deal with it! You didn't complain? maybe you should have instead of just taking it.

So please have some understanding and stop being so nasty to mothers who just want to be able to get on a bus with their prams!

If there is a wheelchair I have yet to meet any mother that wouldn't give up her spot. However, when I was 9 months pregnant NOBODY ever gave me his/her seat on the bus, how's that for decency then?
97

Selle,

Edinburgh 10/10/2008 12:27:14
#85 "Its obvious some of these parents have far too much time on their hands".

Aye, well if they can't get on the buses...

I've carried my 2.5 month old around in a front-sling and will continue to do so until she gets too heavy, then switch to a back-carrier. I prefer it to the pram (as does baby), takes up less room, is more convenient and helps me get rid of that pregnancy weight. Yes, it's harder to carry a weeks worth of shopping plus baby, but it does cause amusement from the other passengers and (#107) on occasions elderly gentlemen have offered me their seats!

 

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