Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Friday, 9th January 2009 Change Date

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the Edinburgh Evening News site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Misery for drivers as half-hour tailbacks hit Haymarket works



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 29 August 2008
DRIVERS are facing delays of up to half-an-hour around Haymarket as a result of the tram works.
The worst tailbacks caused by the roadworks – which are set to last seven months – have been at rush hour on Dalry Road and Morrison Street.

The jams are adding to misery for drivers facing a series of other roadwork delays across the city.

Drivers have had to cope with a series of diversions, no-entry signs and one-way systems since work started ten days ago.

Tram chiefs said they were monitoring traffic flows to see if anything could be done to ease the congestion.

First Bus – which routes most of its services through Haymarket – said it was facing delays of up to 30 minutes at Haymarket junction.

Juliette Turner, operations director for First in Scotland East, said:

"We understand how frustrating it can be for our passengers for their journeys to take longer than usual, and we want them to know that we are deploying staff to monitor the situation.

"Unfortunately, in these circumstances, there is very little that anyone can do. Everyone travelling on these routes will be affected by these works – car drivers, bus operators, delivery drivers and other road users."

Taxi drivers have been reporting regular hold-ups of 15 to 20 minutes.

Raymond Davidson, secretary of the Edinburgh Taxi Association, said taxis had been hit particularly hard because they have been restricted to only westbound access to Haymarket Station.

He said: "There is no doubt things have got worse since the Haymarket work got under way.

"Of course, it is not just at Haymarket, there are problems all over the city with roadworks."

Utility pipes underneath the road at the busy junction are being moved to make way for the £512 million tram line from Newhaven to Edinburgh Airport.

Initially, all eastbound general traffic coming from Roseburn is being diverted around Eglinton Crescent, while eastbound bus services avoid Haymarket on a diversion along Lansdowne Crescent and Grosvenor Street.

George McKendrick, Lothian Buses operations manager, said: "It is hard to predict where and when the traffic delays will occur and how long they will last. Most will be clear in a matter of minutes but others, as we've seen recently, can turn out quite lengthy.

"We regularly have to deploy up to 15 additional buses each day to maintain as reliable a service as possible."

There will be five separate phases of the Haymarket project, each with minor traffic changes, before finishing in February – with a break for the Christmas holidays.

A spokesman for TIE said: "TIE is committed to ensuring that the traffic management around its work sites is well planned and executed.

"The process does not end once the measures are in place. TIE employs traffic modellers to constantly monitor the traffic and works to ensure that should changes be necessary, they are made quickly and efficiently."

START DATE FOR MOUND JUNCTION PROJECT
WORKS for the next round of tram utility diversions on Princes Street will get under way next week.

The work at The Mound junction of Princes Street will get under way in October and is expected to involve significant diversions for bus passengers.

However, tram workers will be out on the street from next week preparing for this project. This enabling work will include removing parking from along the south side of Market Street from The Mound to Cockburn Street, as well as traffic signal work at The Mound. Work will also restart outside Fraser's department store.

The full article contains 598 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Bob 2,

29/08/2008 11:50:04
Great News

Just think 3 more years of this.

By then Lothian Buses will either go bankrupt or Services will be cut to the bone.

Other businesses affected by the TRAMWORKS have been FINCIALLY COMPENSATED …so why not the bus companies.

Edinburgh’s City Centre shops could be in danger of going bust as well, once Princes Street is closed off.

But who care about the Bus Travelling Public.
2

alex paterson,

edinburgh 29/08/2008 11:57:55
The City streets are a misery to drive at anytime and have been for years,there is always some excuse for ripping up the roads.
3

John Jamieson,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 12:04:06
Ocean Terminal, Livingston and Dunfermline shopping centres are obviously the greatest beneficiaries of the Edinburgh tram system so far.
4

Top Floor,

29/08/2008 12:04:48


Roadworks are an inevitable fact of life in cities these days. OK, we've got the tram works as well but utilities works, gas, water, telecom, seem to be on the increase as well.

Investment in these things is good but the disruption that they cause has to be properly managed.

That's the Council's job. Why is it when these stories come out the Council is conspicuous by its absence ?

What about a bit of leadership and control for a change ?

5

NYC Hibee,

edinburgh 29/08/2008 12:11:56
id hope that, given they are re-routing all the utilities along these routes, no further roadworks will be required for years!
6

FC Barcelona,

29/08/2008 12:19:05
my heart bleeds for drivers stuck in long queues in their cars !!!
7

JeB,

the city 29/08/2008 12:27:09
Please, can we all just stop going on and on about the trams. everyone knows how much opposition there is, there is no need to rehash it over and over again. it's boring.
8

Liz,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 12:33:34
#7
I feel worse for the poor sods stuck on all the buses that are caught up on this too at least car drivers have their own space.

It does explain a sudden increase in the cars near where I live though - I assumed it was because the schools were back but it seems more likely that it is people trying to avoid Haymarket.
9

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 29/08/2008 12:34:52
Hooray !!
10

capy,

embra 29/08/2008 12:34:57
It is not just along the tram route that there are probs. All over the city roads are being dug up. While i understand the need to replace pipes, repair etc, it seems that there could be a lot more care in planning this work.
I work for a courier company and i now have to explain to customers why it takes so long to move items around the city. What is my bug bear is the small sections of roadworks that spring up with temp lights with nobody working at them, and then remain there for months. If i didnt know better i would say it was being done on purpose....
11

Top Floor,

29/08/2008 12:40:20
#12 capy, you're right, the council should use its powers more effectively to deal with the random instances of unnecessary roadworks with no obvious signs of work being carried out.

No need to allow a bad situation to become worse when we can do something about it.

The Council seems unable or unwilling to get its hands dirty and try to sort out a few problems.
12

Bob 2,

29/08/2008 12:42:22
Yip more holes in the roads

Spot the TramWorker ....how do you apply for a Tramworkers job

Free City Centre Parking
You Stand about looking at Hole for a few minutes and then disappear for the rest of the day.

The so called experts at TIE have clearly failed in Project Planning, their timescales for the tramworks are well out.
13

Optimus Prime,

Cybertron 29/08/2008 12:42:35
BUILD IT AND PEOPLE WILL COME....
14

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 12:52:56
Time to stop it now - the money spent will have been wasted, but better to cut losses now.
15

Georgy Pordgy,

Outside 29/08/2008 12:55:39
Wow a story about traffic jams in Edinburgh caused by tram works - How interesting, must be a slow news day
16

valleyjim,

haymarket 29/08/2008 12:58:39
#9 Your right, lets talk about kenny richey.
17

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 13:02:21
"Tram chiefs said they were monitoring traffic flows to see if anything could be done to ease the congestion."

And what are they going to do when their stupid toy train set is in place? Come on everyone. Wake up! These disruptions are soon going to be PERMANENT.
18

InsideEdinburgh,

Spying on TIE 29/08/2008 13:03:07
#1, compensation for the Bus Company.
Who do you think is going to be running the trams?
Ask yourself this, why wasn't the tram operations put out to tender?
Why is it that a part-council owned company just happened to be given the tram contract?
Kippers or just plain fishy? The choice is yours!
19

Ron D,

Enybru 29/08/2008 13:07:53
"misery" - nonsense. It doesn't seem to be puting them off driving. The worse they make it for car drivers, the better.
20

Incandescent,

29/08/2008 13:11:53
#21 Ron. You appear to be an eco-nut incapable of reasoned debate, so I'll just say: GIRUY!
21

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 13:12:07
#15 Optimus Prime,Cybertron
BUILD IT AND PEOPLE WILL COME....

Optimus,

Why would people come to Edinburgh to see/ride on a silly, piddling over-expensive tram line?

Please elaborate and explain.
22

,

29/08/2008 13:17:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

Howard Moon,

29/08/2008 13:20:05
You're right #19. I'm always amazed that people seem to think that after 2011/12/?, everything will be back to the way it was. Edinburgh never needed this, it needed to re-establish the commuter rail lines (and maybe add some new ones) out to places like Eskbank and Penicuik, and give Edinburgh back its suburban rail network. For £200 million max we could have had this, as well as electrified all the buses on what was an excellent network. Shame.
24

Incandescent,

29/08/2008 13:20:18
#24 Foo - I think that is actually "drams".
25

eDUCATIon,

29/08/2008 13:22:58
Heres a novel idea dear Kooncil, TIE numpties waste of space.

Why dont you employ some people who are skilled in the art of waving their arms about and get on with actually DIRECTING the traffic at these pinch points during rush hour???

Too much like a good idea??? Thought so, thats why it will never happen.



26

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 13:23:14
InsideEdinburgh (20) - Is it not Transdev who will be running the trams but it is to operate alongside Lothian Buses under the Council-owned umbrella company of TEL?

27

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

29/08/2008 13:23:50
Apparently the buses were so slow, one passenger tried to alight on a passing pram.
28

Wee Keef,

29/08/2008 13:27:11
#24 - Foo - That is not even close to being an accurate statistic. Please quote your sources.
29

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

29/08/2008 13:29:07
#18: He's back in the pokey. It's almost as if he doesn't like freedom.
30

FED UP WITH COUNCIL DEPARTMENTS,

29/08/2008 13:35:08
Anyone else seen the nice new road under the A1 at the fort has been dug up again by BT before it was even used by the public. Can anyone tell me who will be paying for the road to be reinstated. I am sure it will be us again !!!!
31

Niko Bellic,

Castlemilk 29/08/2008 13:36:35

#5 that's the kind of thing Norman Tebbit used to say when his party were trying to wreck the country. Are you a tory or something?

32

JT,

29/08/2008 13:36:37
is the spokesperson from TIE on drugs - well planned and executed! ha that has to be the funniest thing ive heard in ages about this. Can they honestly say this is going to be for the benefit for the whole of the city - i dont think so. I have yet to see anyone work on the tram roadworks, or do they have invisability cloaks on???
33

KTCB41,

29/08/2008 13:41:06
This story is about delays for road users because of the Tram works. It's not about how good the the Trams will be when they arrive. It must be possible to have a reasoned debate about how well TIE is doing in terms of it's project management of the tram line installation without a discussion of how effective the trams will be.

You could be of the view that the Trams may be a good idea but that TIE are making a shambles of the installation, for example.

I'm all for Lothian Buses being compensated like other businesses, that'll be a few thousand pounds of it's business rates.
34

Niko Bellic,

Sing Sing 29/08/2008 13:59:25

#37 - what do you care? you live in Switzerland and drive a Lexus
35

svensl,

bruntsfield 29/08/2008 14:07:35
Being a cyclist in Edinburgh I could be laughing at the cars being stuck in traffic due to roadworks. However, roadworks have left the roads in Edinburgh in such a bad state that even cycling is out of the question. Nowadays, you need a full suspension mountain bike to cope with all the potholes. And if the council does decide to resurface a road then only two weeks later will it have been ripped up by utility companies.
36

Smasher,

29/08/2008 14:14:28
I see you Edinburgers won a recent survey of the unhappiest people in the UK. Well done and keep up the good work.

If you're not happy, here's a suggestion. MOVE elsewhere. I think some dump in England won the happiest place. Relocate yourself there. Best do it quickly. The value of your flat is going down quicker than Gillian Taylforth in a lay-by.
37

Douglas,

Bathgate 29/08/2008 14:16:47
#23 Peter vd/c and unaware that old Optimus is, in fact, Kevin Costner.
Steeerike three. You're out!
38

The Judge,

29/08/2008 14:17:20
99.9% of Edinburgh doesn't want the tramLINE and that's a cold stone fact.

When the tramLINE is massively over budget will the ex councillors and New Labour MSP's who forced it upon the city against the will of the people be surcharged by the same amount?

39

Niko Bellic,

Benelux 29/08/2008 14:17:37

#39 - why don't you get a motor scooter. You could also get a parka with a big target on the back and you could get some records by The Small Faces. Because as it is, you're a boring square.
40

Niko Bellic,

Alpha Centauri 29/08/2008 14:19:14
#40

What do you care, you live in Benelux
41

eric,

Lothian 29/08/2008 14:36:09
All this hassle and cost to have 2nd best to Glasgow subway again,and no train link to airport.
42

Smasher,

29/08/2008 14:47:45
No 44

I thought a Benelux was some brand of vacumn cleaner.

You are incorrect. I actually live at the end of the Tram line and I'm all for it. All these moaners would have us cycling around town if they had their own way. Trams are the future. Well done to the brave, thoughtful people in charge for ignoring all the doom and gloom merchants of Edinburgh.
43

,

29/08/2008 14:48:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
44

Raoul Duke,

29/08/2008 14:48:49
Simple solution - Ban cars from entering the city centre, or charge these drivers 20 quid a time for the luxury
45

lord john,

Borders 29/08/2008 14:59:26
Iam travelling up to Wariston Rd. From Kelso. I intend going through Musselburgh ,Commercial St.,Junction St,.onto the Ferry RD,.Is Their delays on this route with the tram work? Any help?
46

snoopy,

Musselburgh 29/08/2008 15:08:58
Lord John, if you are intending travelling via Leith then you may well face some delays. I'm not entirely sure, but I THINK that the Foot O The Walk is still affected by tram works.

Also, if you're travelling through Musselburgh, does that mean that you're going to go via Portobello? If it does then there's major works at the Seafield end on the roundabout at Kings Road. I got stuck in a massive traffic jam there the other day, delayed for over an hour on a number 26 bus was not fun.

A journey that usually takes around 40 minutes to get into town took 2 hours!
47

lord john,

borders 29/08/2008 15:37:37
Many thanks, Snoopy.
48

James (1),

29/08/2008 15:41:16
#48 Do you mean like a congestion charge?

How long were you in your coma? If you have not been unconcious then welcome to Edinburgh. Visitors are most welcome. Sorry for the delays but when you return in 2012 you can have a go on the tram line.
49

Raoul Duke,

29/08/2008 15:49:47
#52 Jim - Yes of course.

1. Congestion charge
2. Emission charge
3. Parking charge
4. Road Tax
5. Fuel Tax
6. Higher Council Tax for owning a vehicle

Have I missed any?

Drivers should have to pay the lot.
50

Mr Fuzzy,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 15:56:31
#12
Too right - if it's not purple pipes, it's yellow pipes, blue pipes, or a new "in the middle of the road pelican crossing", a leaking water mains, sewers clogged with leaves, pipes being installed to a house or half the road fenced off and being resurfacing.

On any bus route, there seem to be at least five separate areas of roadworks, all with temporary traffic lights.

The worse case was when a narrow trench to a house was being dug. The trench was fenced off as a 1 metre wide strip, and on each side there was a temporary traffic light, both of which were at red!
51

Niko Bellic,

Pearl Harbour 29/08/2008 15:58:51

#53

7. World of Warcraft
8. Bob's Fish (Rodney Street)
9. People with more than one shoe
10. The bus stop outside Stow College
11. Fallen arches
12. Eastern mysticism
13. Duncan Bannatyne's bank account
14. Thanksgiving turkey dinner
15. K2

52

Raoul Duke,

29/08/2008 16:02:44
#55 - you're obviously on drugs.
53

Statsman,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 16:05:28
"TIE employs traffic modellers to constantly monitor the traffic and works to ensure that should changes be necessary, they are made quickly and efficiently."

http://pets.onas.ru/monkey_office_man.jpg
54

Incandescent,

29/08/2008 16:07:11
#53 Raoul (rhymes with...)

Drivers are already paying everything on your list except congestion charge. Your ludicrous "higher council tax for owning a vehicle" is known as the "residents permit scheme". It is a fact well known in government (much ignored by the likes of you) that VED and fuel tax bring into the UK Consolidated Fund many, many times more income than is spent on transport infrastructure and "green initiatives". Drivers therefore subsidise numerous other avenues of government expenditure, without which the government would be in very serious trouble indeed. On top of that, drivers are now being used as a cash cow to bail out inefficient local government by means of the cynical expansion of the controlled zone.
55

Incandescent,

29/08/2008 16:09:17
#56 Raoul - "#55 - you're obviously on drugs."

Unlike you, who clearly haven't taken your medication.
56

Statsman,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 16:13:00
47 Foo

How can anyone claim it is only a 'vocal minority' that are against it and keep a straight face? I have yet to meet anyone in favour of it.
57

Raoul Duke,

29/08/2008 16:13:08
#58 Inc - They clog-up roads and pollute the environment, too right they should be paying for it! My points 2-5 should have started with the word 'Higher'. I am sorry for any confusion.
58

rs,

.of a comment 29/08/2008 16:14:46
37 The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

Read the article, Normal Utility replacement does not involve the congestion that the TRAMWORKS at Haymarket are causing.

The 30mins delays as the report states are due to the TRAMWORKS.

and we've got just under another 3 years of it ...great
59

Raoul Duke,

29/08/2008 16:22:41
Incandescent - And the award for dullest poster of the day goes too...
60

Incandescent,

29/08/2008 16:25:20
#61 Raoul

What is it about my explanation you didn't understand? Drivers pay for the roads, NOT council tax payers. the road maintenance budget is allocated from the UK Consolidated Fund to the Scottish Consolidated Fund and subsequently allocated to Local Authorities proportionally within Revenue Support Grant. As driver revenue greatly exceeds these budgets, it also supports the "green initiatives" so dear to you, as well as significant proportions of social security, health, policing etc. The government has been milking motorists to prop up their profligate expenditure to a ridiculous degree. Isn't it a trifle unfair for them to be expected to pay even more?

Furthermore, the roads that drivers pay for are "clogged up" deliberately by council policy.
61

Incandescent,

29/08/2008 16:27:53
#63 - Raoul "Incandescent - And the award for dullest poster of the day goes too..."

LOL! A classic childish response in the absence of sensible debate. Oh well, if you can't beat 'em...

Raoul - and the award for dullest-witted poster goes to...
62

Raoul Duke,

29/08/2008 16:36:40
Incan - Anyone who uses the term "LOL" really cant say anything to anyone.

Drivers cause a huge disruption to public transport users, pollute the city and should have to pay more for doing so.

63

snoopy,

Musselburgh 29/08/2008 16:38:15
Has anyone posting on here actually met anyone in favour of the trams yet?

I've met a couple of people. They reckon that trams are a good idea because it will boost Edinburghs economy.

Another friend reckons that the trams will be popular at first because people will be curious about them. He reckons that will wear off after a month or two.

Personally I don't reckon that the trams are a good idea. At the minute with all the roadworks that are happening, I reckon that they are damaging Edinburghs economy rather than helping it because some of the smaller traders, if they've not already been forced to close, I predict will be forced to close.

Plus, I don't understand the route of the trams. From what I know, it's either Gogarburn to Ocean Terminal or Airport to Ocean Terminal. Either way, for most of the journey it's going to replicate the route already covered by Lothian Buses number 100 service. Why would Lothian Buses want to offset against the airport bus?

Then there's the 3 or so more years of roadworks. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm already fed up of the many diversions my bus has had to take because of them!

Still, if this all fails, it will be funny to watch the council try to get out of this one!
64

Niko Bellic,

Dublin 29/08/2008 16:43:05

#66 Why comment here, then. Why not comment on the Low Countries Evening news. For all your clog and windmill news.

#70 You are a donkey
65

Incandescent,

29/08/2008 16:47:12
#70 Raoul

DRIVERS pay for the roads. If council tax or Lothian Buses dividends are required for repairs, it is purely because ECC have blown the budget they were given on schemes designed to create the congestion you refer to. Public transport users are effectively "enjoying" subsidised travel on roads paid for by motorists via the exchequer. Likewise it can be fairly said that buses cause huge disruption to other road users (the ones that actually pay for the privilege). As for pollution, the vast majority of breathing problems due to traffic fumes are cause by diesel particulate of just the right size to pass through the alveoli in the lungs, the greatest source of which in Edinburgh is...buses.

But, by all means, don't let facts get in the way of your obsession.
66

Incandescent,

29/08/2008 16:49:08
Sorry "CEC" - whatever...
67

Charles MN,

29/08/2008 16:53:54
#70 If you check the pollution stats you find that 55% of the pollution at Haymarket comes from buses and about 10% from cars.

What is causing the congestion on Princes St?
68

Raoul Duke,

29/08/2008 16:55:02
You simply do not need to drive into Edinburgh city centre, there are plenty of alternatives available and more to come.

People who choose to drive (and that is what you are doing) should have to pay extra for the previlege. That is all.
69

,

29/08/2008 17:02:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
70

Incandescent,

29/08/2008 17:04:22
#77 Raoul

I've always written in the third-party, so I'm not sure why you assume I drive into the city centre. However, should I choose to do so, I already pay handsomely for the privilege, thanks. Your arrogance in presuming to judge the "needs" of others is quite breathtaking and a hallmark of your sort. If you genuinely think that the CEC plan for "congestion charging" was motivated by anything other than a desperate attempt to balance the books, you are sadly deluded.
71

,

29/08/2008 17:05:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
72

Niko Bellic,

Dublin 29/08/2008 17:07:59

Nobody wants the trams.
73

Charles MN,

29/08/2008 17:08:25
#77 As incandescent has already spelt out people who drive do pay lots more. For many there is no choice but to drive.

There are many places around Edinburgh where the bus "service" means a bus every two hours, with no buses after 6pm and none on a Sunday.

74

Incandescent,

29/08/2008 17:10:17
#80 Foo

Hearsay I know, but on a recent flight (gasp!) I sat next to a couple from Corstorphine. They were quite forceful in their anti-tram views. Go figure.
75

Niko Bellic,

Dublin 29/08/2008 17:16:06

Foo sounds like the name of a poodle
76

The Judge,

29/08/2008 17:20:54
#80 I can show you the results of the referendum, in case you missed it Edinburgh voted against the tramLINE. What more do you protrammies want?

77

Niko Bellic,

Tramistan 29/08/2008 17:22:48

#85 there are no pro-Trammites - if you see pro-Tram posts here, they are the result of homewokers in the employ of an evil PR company - 50p per pro-Tram post.

78

Incandescent,

29/08/2008 17:32:21
Having firmly vanquished Raoul with the forces of logic and fact, I'm off for a well deserved pint. 'Night all.
79

Skinnybob,

29/08/2008 17:40:01
I don't know what the fascination is with trams. As far as I can see it's simply a slightly upmarket version of bus that, because it's on rails, can be driven by someone with an even lower IQ than a bus driver.

And at the end of the day it'll still be used mainly by the sort of jaikies that you avoid contact with by taking the car.
80

Niko Bellic,

Dublin 29/08/2008 17:47:35

#88 not really many jakeys on the bus. It's mostly RBS and Stranded Life employees heading to Lothian Rd and the Gyle for another day of pointless 'financial services' misery.

81

Niko Bellic,

Dublin 29/08/2008 17:49:41

#89 that's not very nice. We can't all have double-barrelled names and be middle class like you.
82

Niko Bellic,

Dublin 29/08/2008 17:55:29

No I mean your real name
83

Niko Bellic,

Dublin 29/08/2008 18:03:20

Ladies & gentleman - Mario's real name is Tarquin Sellotape-Tramfare.

What happened to "I love to eat sellotape" - he was on a roll, but I guess he just couldny stick it.
84

snoopy,

Musselburgh 29/08/2008 18:18:06
#80 All you need to do is Google it and you will see that there are petitions against the Trams :)
85

Euan,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 18:18:07
The perpetrators of this disgraceful tram project should be hanging their heads in shame.

They are systematically destroying Edinburgh and making life as miserable as possible for tens of thousands of it's citizens.

The construction of the tram line is one of the worst ever projects to have been give the green light in Scotland and is fast becoming a national embarrassment.

TIE is a completely useless, badly run company. It is full of half-witted ignoramuses who have no concept of what they are involved in. Their half-baked attempts recently at trying to gain funding for the non-existent Granton spur are quite simply ludicrous.

They are unable to focus any of their resources on matters that really count, ie trying to at least get the FIRST tram LINE finished on time and on budget with minimum disruption to locals.

The whole project should be scrapped NOW before we waste any more valuable public money on this farce.



86

The Judge,

29/08/2008 18:23:26
#89 I don't normally make things personal, but shouldn't you still be on your fake month holiday? I noticed you couldn't even keep that up.

Seriously Mario, or whatever you're calling yourself this hour, you are nowhere near as funny as you imagine.



87

Niko Bellic,

Sing Sing 29/08/2008 18:33:47

#97 - Mario's like Steve Martin. He's not funny anymore, but he keeps cranking them out. Cheaper By The Dozen 2 - now that was a stinker.

88

Dr DoGood,

edinburgh 29/08/2008 19:18:30
what is causing the congestion and major hold ups is obvious...... car drivers...........................
your inability to read simple road signs............
MAJOR ROAD WORKS IN HAYMARKET AREA PLEASE FIND ALTERNATIVE ROUTE.......................... that means don't go via Haymarket unless you have to dead simple really so stop whinging
89

jdships,

29/08/2008 19:25:14
8 The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

The buses are suffering as much as the cars so what's the advantage of using them. ?
90

jdships,

29/08/2008 19:29:56
89 The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

Ive probably told you this before but you should really try harder to learn to debate sensibly .
Your so called "humour" is wearing a bit thin and
you would then be accepted as a genuine contributor to this forum .
91

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 19:58:43
Statsman (57) - Very entertaining link - scarily near the truth, in fact!
92

Ian down under,

Kawerau 29/08/2008 21:35:43
Eggs>>>>>>>>>>crack, smash, mix, pour, cook>>>>>omelette
93

Ian down under,

Musselburgh 29/08/2008 21:36:48
Catch the train!
94

tumshie heid,

29/08/2008 22:11:02
How we all look forward to the utopian dream of an Edinburgh without roadworks where we can all hop on and off trams with gay abandon.(Not at all)
Stop this bloo#y disgrace now and return the roads system to how it was before Begg and his cronies wrecked them.
Perhaps if we didn't have so many vacant pieces of road painted green so that no one can use them then we wouldn't have as much congestion. The crazy road closures/one way systems that have been introduced over the last while are contributing greatly to this dire situation with the trams.
Take alternative routes? You can't because they have all been closed off over the years.
95

Maxibus,

29/08/2008 22:15:51
When the Tram line is finished Shandwick Place will be closed. Perhaps the signs should be put now advising car drivers to re-plan their journey.
96

GorgieRepublic,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 23:25:15
They do seem to be doing roadworks on umpteen major routes at the same time as well as the tram work, its just plain daft, take the alternate route and oh look, it has a different set of utilities digging it up. I asked my local councillor why the Gas board ripped up Gorgie Road for months, relaid it then dug up more bits again weeks later then the water board came along months later and started digging up the same bloody streets. His reply was the council had no control over this, it was all the utilities fault. Why the council can't do anything is beyond me, at the very least they could name and shame utilities for digging up a road not long after another company did the same stretch.

And while we're at it, every sodding morning a huge tailback on Dalry Road and of course there are selfish eejits parked in the bus/cycle lane during rush hour even though they know they shouldn't (quite a few of them belong to the shop owners) and they are doing it and adding to the blockage because there isn't a single warden to be seen, they seem to have abandoned Dalry and Gorgie and the result is more folks parking illegally during rush hour just to make life better for the rest of us.
97

Julian.,

edinburgh 29/08/2008 23:58:40
#85 The Judge,

What more do we want. Evidence of this referendum where we voted against the trams would be nice.

Funny, because the only referendum I heard about in recent years was the one proposing road tolls. And the only link to the trams was that it was to finance line 3. Absolutely nothing to do with the current project. But then again, maybe I missed it.
98

Julian.,

edinburgh 30/08/2008 00:05:09
JUDGE,

How do you know how funny Mario thinks he is?

EUAN,

Just interested but at what point would you not want this project scrapped? 1 month from completion with £475m spent on it? I've got a horrible feeling that you would still be calling for the whole thing to be destroyed.
99

Applecrumble,

Balerno 30/08/2008 00:42:36
Hey I was on that bus this morning - it got through in 50 seconds. And that was rush hour.
100

rs,

..of a comment 30/08/2008 11:19:34
74 Incandescent, 29/08/2008 16:47:12

DRIVERS pay for the roads. ... Likewise it can be fairly said that buses cause huge disruption to other road users (the ones that actually pay for the privilege).

Likewise it can be fairly said that CARS cause huge disruption to other road users by there inefficient use of road space. Look at the A720,A1,A90,A71 at peak times......tail to tail with cars (80% empty in most cases)

Bus Passengers pay taxes in various ways, which contribute to the repairs of Edinburgh's Roads , IN FACT Incandescent, many bus passengers OWN CARS , so they are directly paying towards road maintenance.

Take all the cars off the roads ....and Public Transport will run more efficiently...causing less pollution.

Cycling and Walking are the only pollution free mode of transport in Edinburgh?


How much pollution does all the Cars on the bypass cause..... moving along at a snails pace at the peak times

99 ..You cant beat the Use Alternative route on the East Side......Roadworks at Portobello Roundabout ....Use Alternative Route.. And on the Alternative Route ....GasWorks..think theres a sign saying use alternative route..you can't beat it
101

Euan,

Edinburgh 30/08/2008 11:21:15
#109, Julian

I think that scrapping this project now, or scrapping it even with just months to go would still be the correct decision for this City.

The tram line is going to be a money pit for decades to come. It will be the ball and chain around the neck of Edinburgh and will never, ever pay for itself as there will simply be far too few people using it.

Any running costs shortfall(which is an absolute certainty)will have to be have to picked up by the local taxpayer, and that of course means well above inflation council tax rises for every citizen in this City.

It would be most prudent to scrap the whole project right after the utility pipes etc have been moved. Many of them may have needed upgraded/replaced anyway so at least the money used to do this would have been put so some sort of proper use.

I will never be setting foot on a tram in Edinburgh out of principle.




102

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 30/08/2008 12:51:16
#112. Agree 100% - cut our losses and scrap now.

103

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 30/08/2008 13:00:40
When the tram line eventually starts operations, the business plan shows it expects to lose about £10m per year. This loss may well have increased given the massive rises in electricity costs which are highly unlikely to have been factored into the original plan.

The only way it reaches break even on an operating basis is through doubling the passenger numbers. However this requires massive development at the Waterfront, Edinburgh Park and two new RBS style developments at Gogar. None of these are likely to happen for many years, if ever. TIE's own revenue and risk document which takes a low planning case (which is arguably still ambitious in the current climate) suggests permanent deficits of more than £10m per annum for the tram line.

Even if we pull the plug after spending hundreds of millions it still makes sense compared with racking up ongoing massive losses.
104

John1,

Stirling 30/08/2008 16:27:27
64 incandescant:
"the road maintenance budget is allocated from the UK Consolidated Fund to the Scottish Consolidated Fund and subsequently allocated to Local Authorities proportionally within Revenue Support Grant"

Unfortunately councillors have the power to divert this money to whatever pet project they think will win them votes, Stirling Council has only recently started using more than 5o% of the grant for the purpose for which it was intended. Stirling has the second worst roads in Scorland. Guess who is first? Does Edinburgh follow the same policy?

On the tram subject: Would it not be simpler and cheaper, with zero disruption, to build a railway station near the airport and run a shuttle bus? An existing railway passes on both sides of the airport and on the south side at least there is an existing subway under the A8 which could be used by the shuttle bus. This would involve buying some land but would involve NO roadworks on the A8 and NO disruption to existing traffic.
105

rs,

. on the bus 31/08/2008 09:16:52
115 ..... too sensible


Edinburgh has the South Suburban Line , track in place.

On the north side many of the "old railway" tracks have been converted to cycle paths.....

So could the reverse happen and convert them back to Railway tracks.....No Disruption to Traffic on the roads!!!
106

Julian.,

edinburgh 31/08/2008 21:41:40
Euan,

Thanks for that confirmation. Your answer has just confirmed that you are either blinkered and/or against this project no matter what. To scrap it 1 month before c