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Lecturers' bid to march Army recruiters out of city college

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Published Date:
02 April 2007
LECTURERS have tried to have the Army banned from recruiting students at Edinburgh's Stevenson College.
Members of Scotland's biggest teaching union have taken exception to the Ministry of Defence setting up recruitment stalls to talk to students, mostly aged between 16 and 18, about a career in the Armed Forces.

Following a vote of around 50 union
members at the college, they made a formal approach to Stevenson's management asking them to ban MoD recruitment drives from the campus.

The college has turned down the request, but union members have vowed to carry on campaigning, taking their fight to a national level.

Gordon Plews, secretary of the Stevenson's branch of the EIS, which has about 220 members, said: "We asked the college to suspend marketing of the Army inside its doors.

"You have a lot of young, impressionable people in a college and we are asking whether this is the right environment for them to come in and recruit."

He said both opposition to the war in Iraq and the increased risks to soldiers which that campaign had brought, as well as the one in Afghanistan, were factors behind the vote.

"There are elements of both," Mr Plews said. "For some it's definitely about opposition to the war in Iraq. It's not about being anti-military or anti-Army.

"It's more dangerous for soldiers since we entered Iraq."

One of the teachers who backed the move, Donny Gluckstein, who teaches history at the college, claimed the Army were targeting low-income students with promises of free driving instruction and sports facilities.

He said: "These recruits are no more than economic conscripts, and the army is playing on their poverty and deprivation."

Stevenson lecturer Penny Gower, who is a member of the EIS further education national executive, is hoping the union will adopt the issue as a national campaign.

She has arranged for the question to be put to a vote of the union's full council when it next meets in June, alongside a similar call for a ban on Army recruitment in schools.

Susan Bird, principal of Stevenson College, said: "At Stevenson we run an active roster of careers fairs, volunteer fairs, and higher education fairs to present our students with opportunities that will help them plan for their lives after college.

"We invite a wide range of organisations to these fairs, including the police, the Army, local businesses, banks and charities. We feel our students have the ability to make the best decisions for themselves when they are presented with a range of options.

"In the past we have invited representatives of the Army to participate in these recruitment fairs, and we intend to maintain our relationship with the Army as it continues to provide career prospects, training and personal development opportunities."

She added: "We recognise the sensitivity of direct recruitment, and will not allow any organisation to set up displays without first discussing the merits of such a display with the college."

An MoD spokeswoman said: "The Armed Forces do not send any teams into schools unless at the request of the headteacher.

"We don't go into schools and colleges to recruit people to send them to Iraq - if there's a career fair then we would go in.

"Those who are not joining the Armed Forces because of Iraq, are equalled by the number who join up because of it.

"They don't join up to sit in barracks all day, but to do interesting challenging jobs, and the majority are keen to deploy.

"There's no secret what the Army is all about - it's explained at every level. We offer an exciting and rewarding career, operations and training overseas are a part of that."



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 02 April 2007 12:42 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: British armed forces
 
1

,

02/04/2007 11:03:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 495825, Article id was mapped to record!
2

,

02/04/2007 11:07:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 495845, Article id was mapped to record!
3

,

02/04/2007 11:17:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 495899, Article id was mapped to record!
4

robert SHIVAGO,

livingson 02/04/2007 11:20:37

OUR ARMED FORCES ARE BECOMING A HATED LOT .THE LABOUR PARTY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.SAVALAS SAYING .SOLDIERS --WHO LOVES YA BABY--NO ONE.WE NEED RECRUITS BUT NO ONE SEEMS TO WANT TO HELP.WE HAVE HAD NOTHING BUT BAD PRESS ON OUR ARMED FORCES ON A DAILY BASIS.THE LABOUR PARTY ARE DEAD AND THEY APPEAR TO WANT TO DO THE SAME TO ARE SODJERS

5

DAVID,

Edinburgh 02/04/2007 11:21:40

Liberal nonsense. Typical lecturer behaviour, did they ask the students first of all or did they just assume they needed this "protection"?

6

Swilly Tisher,

Loch Maree 02/04/2007 11:43:05

A job's a job.

7

alex paterson,

embra 02/04/2007 12:01:34

In theory it sounds fine,But the only people they would recruit would be Uni drop outs,Is the Army that hard up.

8

Scaramouche2,

02/04/2007 12:04:27

#7. Yes.

9

Cynicaltalk,

E Lothian 02/04/2007 12:09:52

How about these lecturers stop trying to bring their own political beliefs into the education sector.

Teach people who wish to be taught and just do your job.

If ADULTS wish to join the armed forces, then give them the credit they deserve. Treat them like asults and let them make their own life choices.

Whats a worse choice? Join the armed forces for 3 years. Get fit, meet good mates, get taught discipline,teamwork and gain qualifications. See and experience the world, not just see it on telly. Yes, there is a danger of physical injury or death.

Or stay in Edinburgh, get a job that your 'right on' lecturers want you to get. Bum around Edinburgh trying to find your vocation. And drink in Lothian Road, where there is a real chance of physical attacks and stabbings. Maybe death.

10

spiggot,

02/04/2007 12:21:19

Perhaps the problem for the lecturers is the way that recruitment is carried out - videos suggesting a glamorous fun-filled life in exciting places - when we know the reality is likely to be death by an improvised roadside bomb in Basra or from friendly US firepower!

Perhaps Universtity students can see through this but I still see, every weekday morning, poorly dressed youngsters who look like they're just out of school on Waverley Bridge. waiting for the minibus to take them in for their basic training........ Get these lying recruiters out of the secondary schools too!

11

Cynicaltalk,

E Lothian 02/04/2007 12:42:03

#10

Do the police show videos of officers getting stabbed by crazed herion addicts, or do the fire service show video's of fire crews pulling dead kids out of crashed cars?

No, they show video's of police officers having a laugh with revellers at Hogmanay, or firefighters showing groups of cute photogenic kids around a fire engine.

And of these poorly dressed youngsters you see each morning. In 12 weeks time they will be marching past their family and friends at a passing out parade, chests swelling with pride and a sense of achievement. Smartly dressed men and women. with a sense of confidence and belief that they did not possess on that wet monday morning when you seen them getting on that bus. Trusted with the security of this country and its allies.

Whereas if they had went to Stevenson college and never considered the armed forces, they would be waiting at the same bus stop, on the same bridge, to go to the same job, monday to friday, same routines, same faces, same experiences. No sense of purpose or being. Just another shirt and tie face in the city centre rush hour.

What a great motivation i now have to study at Stevenson!

12

PJ,

Edinburgh 02/04/2007 12:53:53

Lecturers should stop trying to bring their own political opinions to class, to suit their own agenda.

MOD recruiters have as much right to recruit as another company, at the end of the day they can't join at 16 - 18 years of age without parental consent.

And #10 when I was in the Army, the main concern was improvised roadside bombs, a sniper or a car bomb on the streets in Northern Ireland. But it seemed acceptable for Edinburgh's Stevenson College, to allow recruiters in then.

At the end of the day, when you join the Armed forces there is and always have been a likelyhood that they may go to war. But that goes with the uniform.

13

Cynicaltalk,

E Lothian 02/04/2007 13:14:26

Good point #12

When they were putting troops into NI, or saving the oppressed people in Bosnia from horrific ethnic cleansing, nothing was said about military recruitment. We were respected.

But now, because it is seen as 'cool' to jump on the anti Iraq war bandwagon, everyone is determined to make headlines and show the world how they are anti war.

If they want to make a stand against the war in Iraq, then don't make it to the detriment of students who would make a good career in the military and build a life as a result of it. Hijack another platform and do it from there.

14

spiggot,

02/04/2007 13:34:51

#13 "When they were putting troops into NI, or saving the oppressed people in Bosnia from horrific ethnic cleansing, nothing was said about military recruitment. We were respected"!

The comment I posted at 10 was in no way meant to be critical of our troops..... it was about the lies told to them about forces life and the impossible and illegal tasks set them by our criminal politicians!

15

PJ,

Edinburgh 02/04/2007 14:26:48

I would like to take bets that Edinburgh's Stevenson College, has never mentioned to their students that as many as 5,000 people die every day as a result of work-related accidents or illnesses, according to the International Labour Organisation at the end of 2005.

The UN body said the global death toll from work-related incidents and disease was an estimated 2.2 million a year, 10% higher than three years ago and a staggering 90,000 people died in China alone due to work related accidents or illness in 2001.

Workers in industrialized economies are vulnerable to communicable diseases such as malaria and exposure to hazardous substances. The latter cause an estimated 440,000 deaths a year, with exposure to asbestos killing an estimated 100,000 workers every year alone.

16

I'm no really here,

02/04/2007 14:47:53

Yes right, and I'll take my queue from what College lecturers think? If their not Liberal, their Green, or worst of all both.

They should be reminded that Colleges and Universities are public facilities, not their private playgrounds.

17

Ken S.,

England 02/04/2007 14:57:21

".. a lot of young, impressionable people in a college.."

Just ripe for being fed a politically correct diet by the lecturers but to be cosseted from any notion of a worthwhile career. (Being sent to contentious places such as Iraq is politicians' fault, not the Force's)

18

bill-alba,

Fife 02/04/2007 15:15:00

Cynical...The adults that want to join..well they can of course go to a recruitment office..
When I was a bairn in the mid 60s..they came round the school and it was either the forces or farming..

19

dyon gollins's back,

at College 02/04/2007 15:25:59

Better to remove the Trotskyist scum who're behind this campaign to undermine the army and our gallant lads in the middle east and Iraq etc.

20

Mallory,

02/04/2007 15:52:20

Better to learn a trade in the Forces than sit around whinging at a FE College. These b*****y teachers should join up and shout their bile at the insurgents in Afghanistana and Iraq. They will surely be impressed.

21

Scaramouche2,

02/04/2007 15:54:02

And the Army are not honest either. Their recruitment posters should read Join the Army ... and See the Next World!

22

Hezza,

Axis of Ignorance 02/04/2007 15:55:49

The lecturers at Stevenson College are not exactly the cream of the academic world, are they? To turn away a potential recruiter from your campus is very short-sighted; would they prefer their students went to work in the local Tesco instead?
I disagree with the way the war in Iraq has been handled, but that is a political matter, not an army one. These imbeciles seem unable to differentiate.

The army offers an excellent career, with both academic and non-academic training that can be applied on civvy street, not to mention the leadership and self confidence traits that are so hard to impart and that are highly prized by industry.

I wonder what this group plans to do next? Ban copies of the Scotsman being sold on campus because they disagree with the political stance? I wonder if Robert Louis would approve of their narrow minded views?

23

PJ,

Edinburgh 02/04/2007 15:58:55

Ok worst case scenario terrorists decide to hold lecturers hostage (not to bright) at Edinburgh's Stevenson College, who would the Liberal/Green pencil pushers expect to rescue them an angry student body armed to the teeth with rulers and a protractors or the SAS!

You decide!!!

24

Polmonto,

02/04/2007 16:18:18

#24, #25 You hit the nail on the head. These people are idiots...

Stevenson College Report Card:

Could do Better. Lecturers have consistently struggled with coherent thought this term, made several bad decisions and became the laughing stock of Edinburgh. Hopefully next term will bring progress as we move on to the lego element of the course.

25

Thistledhu,

fife 02/04/2007 16:28:14

firstly the college lectures stance is an example of the opt out of life lifestlye that many of our educators lead we are right and you the rest of this tiresome uneducated world wrong. If there are poorley educated youths at this college perhaps we should be looking more closely at them instead of letting the lectures have a go at the army for offering a oppertunity to make a life for themselves.
but to add to that the recruiting procces is a long one and only 1 in 5 actually make it to training recruit, select, train. is the process and all the way through this the recruit can say no thanks im off.
and as for #10 I see them on wavelry bridge Really? the training of recruits is all done in england now so i dont know who you were lookiing at but it isent as you try to make out. and as to lieing any recruiter caught lieing to recruits is removed from post and disiplined the wrong type of recruit who dosent understand what they are joining is no use to anyone.

26

Moray Stewart,

Edinburgh 02/04/2007 16:45:04

Leftist nonsense. "You have a lot of young, impressionable people in a college and we are asking whether this is the right environment for them to come in and recruit." - this could apply to any employer (especially McDonalds). As for the nonsense about economic conscripts, most people work because they need the money - is that evil?

The more I read of Unions the closer I come to canceling my membership.

27

Cat,

Musselburgh 02/04/2007 17:06:10

"this could apply to any employer "
Excuse me but what other employers are in the business of killing people ?
That's what the army does, it employs people to kill.
And the British Army has a particular line in killing; in the service of American imperialism as it rampages around the globe causing mayhem.
The British army is desperate for new canon fodder, keep them away from our young people.

28

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 02/04/2007 17:10:52

#4. robert SHIVAGO, livingson is correct

Tony and this Iraq war, based on twisted lies & personal profit for the political elite have ruined the reputation & image of our armed forces - much to the detriment of the country & us all.

Time to get this lot out in Westminster too - although if it had been South America - the army would probably have done it for us by now ...

29

Thistledhu,

fife 02/04/2007 17:31:50

cat please wake up and live in the real world where there are many dangers and threats to us all to deal with them we need armed forces who need young people to join them but allways by there own choice
remember democracy is the sure posesion of only those who are prepared to defend it

30

chics311,

Florida, U.S.A. 02/04/2007 17:59:23

as Plews secretary of the union branch noted,.'You have lot of young, impressionable people in a college.' I think it would be a good idea to kick his ass out onto the street, so that he can no longer poison the minds of the students with his ultra left leaning,p.c. claptrap,which I just know he spouts.

31

Rucsack21,

Paisley 02/04/2007 18:22:24

Obviously they are now looking for the more intelligent youngster for the Army.In the past they would visit ordinary schools in their respective recruiting areas and set up demos of weapons etc etc and the soldiers would be speaking to the youngsters of what life was really like in the Army.Sadly, they only show the nice side of the Army life like ski-ing, boating,parachuting and other sports. They will not tell the youngsters that you might get killed when you are on active service like Iraq and Afghanistan or other theatre's of active operations.Seems like desperation times have arrived.

32

Thistledhu,

fife 02/04/2007 18:38:37

#33 wrong !!!! one of the questions asked in the several interviews that potential recruits are asked is do you realise there are dangers in being in the armed forces. this image of people just being told about skiing etc is nonesense the young people of this genaration are far brighter than you give them credit for rucsack

33

PJ,

Edinburgh 02/04/2007 19:55:06

#29

You never read any other comments!

If you had bothered to read my comments on #12 "at the end of the day they can't join at 16 - 18 years of age without parental consent." #16 "as many as 5,000 people die every day as a result of work-related accidents or illnesses!"

So you can go back to you hot chocolate and biscuit people like myself were willing and are willing to put on a uniform and do the job. No-one asked you to do the job!!!

34

Richard Lionheart,

02/04/2007 21:44:22

I understand that the navy are to recruit at the Edinburgh Gay Pride march!

35

Pilrig,

Livingston 02/04/2007 22:21:42

The trade's f***ed son, better bein' a jannie.

36

Beachcomber,

Embra 02/04/2007 22:32:37

#31 Thistledhu. Well hotfoot it along to the Army Careers Office
at the double, sign up, and do your stint in Iraq or Iran. Remeber only 4 moths training, inadquate equipment. If you make it, you will have prooved to us all that -

"remember democracy is the sure posesion of only those who are prepared to defend it"

Good luck.

37

Jim Lahey,

02/04/2007 23:48:39

Have these lecturers forgotten what happened in London only 2 years ago? How about we just disband the military all together? Oh but what will all those people too "stupid" to go to college do?

These students are grown adults and ee more than enough negative horrors about the war on the news each night. I'm sure they are smart enough to grasp the gravity of their decision and should be getting a pat on the back, not condescending ridicule!

38

walter,

03/04/2007 00:00:40

LECTURERS have tried to have the Army banned from recruiting students at Edinburgh's Stevenson College.

Have these lecturers even considered that the people who wore uniforms in the past are the ones who now allow them to be the people they are today.
It is only when a brave man wear a uniform and lay down his life that another can stand up for his principles.

39

Thistledhu,

fife 03/04/2007 10:00:03

beechcomber sure thing will do that no problem only thing is ive allready served 22 years in places rangeing from NI Bosnia to yes surprise surprise Iraq. its not 4 months its six and thats just basic you then go onto further training prior to any deployment and plus being guided by other more expirenced soldiers beside you show me a individual who says he/she only had 4 months training then went straight on ops and i will show you a liar

40

Adamski,

Edinburgh 03/04/2007 10:07:39

Only in Britain. Typical. If they were recruiting for some bag on the head wearing Islamic organisation no one would say boo as they'd be so scared of offending a minority.
When it comes to recruiting for this countries own legally constituted armed forces they are up in arms (pardon the pun).
This country really is fecked up. We've sown the seeds of our own downfall.

41

Thistledhu,

fife 03/04/2007 10:16:04

#42 think your getting to the truth of the matter the Army are a easy target as they tend to ignore this rubbish. im afraid keeping a dignified silence just gives the tree huggers the impresion there myths are facts.

42

no more roads,

Edinburgh 03/04/2007 12:07:51

The glorification of the British army is misplaced in the light of last week's cover-up which saw the conviction of only one man in connection with the brutal killing of an innocent Iraqi hotel manager by invading British troops. Perhaps the constant attacks on Iraqi civilians in an illegal war might be the reason these principled lecturers are trying to prevent young Scots being press-ganged into a paramilitary with scant regard for human rights? Any reputation our armed forces had for protecting vulnerable people evaporated with the long line of shameful conduct stretching from Iraq and Afghanistan back to Northern Ireland, Eire and Aden, with unarmed civilians the enemy in every theatre. Disband the armed forces now and empower the UN.

43

Adamski,

Edinburgh 03/04/2007 12:51:28

#44 Lol Disband the army. I wonder what alternate reality you live in?.

To quote Homer (Simpson) "I'm the magical man, from Happy Land, who lives in a gumdrop house on Lolly Pop Lane!".

I notice you call yourself no more roads. I take it you don't have a job to get to either then?.

44

no more roads,

Edinburgh 03/04/2007 13:36:09

Adamski: Homer Simpson was recently voted the ideal role model for American families. And this is the country with which we are in a murderous partnership. I leave you to think about that for a few hours, while the steam in your lugs dissipates. I dont understand your comment about jobs, but I travel by bicycle and we don't need any more roads.

45

Richard Keith Munro,

USA 03/04/2007 19:20:01

Of course, we have the same left wing ingratitude in the USA. It is easy to mock the men (and women) who guard you while you sleep as Kipling wrote. Very easy. But the world is a very dangerous place. I am very appreciative of the character and courage of the British soldiers, sailors and airmen and Royal Marines I have known. Every American servicemen knew that Brits like the Aussies were 100% reliable; most knew that America was Britain's best friend and had been the guarantor of its independence in two great wars for national survival. Most remembered that Britain was the recipient of more economic aid and food in the post war than almost any country in the history of the world.

How to explain the change in attitude? Well, the Spanish example since their terrorist attacks in their country is the best explanation -sheer cowardice and appeasement. Far be it for me to lecture brillant Scottish and English scholars but the price of this appeasement and multicultural surrender will be servitude and humiliation. I remain, and always will be a lover of England and Scotland both but I have no regrets whatsoever that I am an American by choice.


When I read such prejudice and anti-American virulence in Scotland and England I am very glad my uncle, a graduate of Glasgow University, a veteran of the US Army Air Corps (1942-1945) did not live to see this sad state of affairs.

Ditto for my father, cousins and grandfather and great uncles who served in the US Army, Canadian Armed Forces, and Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders -ALL VOLUNTEERS- to assure the survival and success and independence of the UK. Others worked seven day weeks building liberty ships so the people of the Isles did not starve.

Who do they expect them to save them next time?

And ladies and gentleman make no mistake there will be other trials, great trials in store for the Isles from within and without.

Adam Ferguson and Burns both bitterly oppos

46

Thistledhu,

fife 04/04/2007 09:40:02

Cant but help to agree with the above post in its main No more roads ? fine for nice bike ride to work if its close bu but if youre in a house 30 miles from a hospital and you are haveing a heart attack at one in the morning how you going to get there?
another case of reality that many of your ilk cant face

47

Thistledhu,

fife 04/04/2007 09:53:13

# 44 The un must stand out as the most corrupt orginisation ever along being corrupt and inept
lets look at some examples of UN brilliance
Rwanda Un troops orderd to stand back and look no while children and UN Troops as well are massacerd

Large kick backs for the oil for food program with one of the guilty parties being Kofi annans son

Sebrinica while the serbs who carried out this massacre are rightfully being hunted down the UN High ranking officials who prevented any military action to save the so called UN enclave go unpunished Dutch UN troops looked on as men and boys as young as 10 were led away to be shot.

UN police in bosnia being heavily involved in human trafficing


Un food aid sold openly in markets

incompatent corrupt in a word not fit for porpose the world deserves better than these people


 

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