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Hole found in nuclear submarine

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Published Date: 09 April 2008
SAFETY fears have been raised after a hole was discovered in the hull of a nuclear submarine berthed in the Firth of Forth.
The hole – about the size of a fist – was found during routine checks on the decommissioned sub HMS Revenge at Rosyth Dockyard.

The vessel is one of seven redundant nuclear subs stored at Rosyth by the Royal Navy since the early 1980s.

The breach, discovered during a routine inspection in February, was in one of six external ballast tanks of the Polaris submarine, and was immediately sealed by Navy engineers.

Although weapons and high-level radioactive fuel have long since been removed from the submarines, successive governments have failed to come up with a safe way of disposing of the radioactive reactor compartments, which remain at the centre of the subs.

Navy chiefs today said the hole had been caused by microbes in the water and was repaired immediately, with no danger to the public.

Environmentalists today said the incident was a reminder that a long-term solution for the ageing subs was needed.

John Large, a leading UK nuclear consultant, said: "This is a significant incident as it will force the MoD finally to make a decision on this after years of humming and hawing.

"The indecision and incompetence shown by the Ministry of Defence and Royal Navy over what to do with these boats has been absolutely staggering.

"They've had no strategy and just to leave them afloat to rot really beggars belief.

"You have to remember that up until 1985, the Royal Navy's policy on what to do with these old nuclear submarines was simply to dump them at sea.

"I would imagine that when they take Revenge out of the water it will be like a car's MoT – once they find one thing wrong, they'll find others."

The hole on HMS Revenge was discovered on one of six external ballast tanks, which are about half an inch thick compared with the inner hull, which is an inch and a half thick.

The vessel will be moved to a dry dock next month to allow the vessel's hull to undergo a thorough examination.

Pete Roche, an anti-nuclear campaigner and energy consultant, said: "This is very worrying news, but the problem is that nobody is coming up with any ideas on what to do with them."

In April 1983, Britain's first nuclear sub, HMS Dreadnought, was towed into Rosyth at the end of her service and six others have followed.

Stuart Hay, head of campaigns at Friends of the Earth Scotland, said: "This just goes to show the madness of going ahead with a new generation of nuclear power stations in the UK."

Royal Navy spokesman Neil Smith said: "The hole was immediately plugged. There was no chance of the boat sinking and absolutely no risk to the environment or wider community."

Forth U-boat to be protected war grave
CAMPAIGNERS have won their battle to have the wreck of a German U-boat, sunk off the Firth of Forth, declared a protected war grave.

U-714 was sunk in March 1945 by depth charges from South African frigate HMSAS Natal and the British destroyer HMS Vivern. All of the ship's 50-strong crew were lost.

Roger Williams, who was 18 when he dropped the depth charges, and Axel Schwebcke, the son of the 27-year-old German skipper who died, have campaigned for the wreck to get protected status.

The wreck of the U-boat was discovered by divers from South Queensferry Sub Aqua Club 18 months ago.

Mr Williams, who lives in South Africa, said his campaign was not about guilt or regret. He said: "It was the circumstance of the time. We have respect for seamen of all nations; that is part of the brotherhood of the sea."

Stevie Adams, from South Queensferry, who helped find the site, said he kept its location secret so it was not disturbed by looters. He said: "This protected status is great, because it does mean that people are told they can look but not touch anything at the site."

Committee on Radioactive
Waste Management




The full article contains 696 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 April 2008 12:28 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Nuclear defence , Environment
 
1

gorgeousgorgieboy,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 12:12:58
Pete Roche, an anti-nuclear campaigner and energy consultant, said: "This is very worrying news,


Prat. Its a non-story.
2

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 12:13:49
Oh! Here we go! Watch all the anti-nuclear dunderheads pick up on this one.
3

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 12:54:05
#2, yep, stand by for the Anti-Nuclear, Flat-Earth Green Loonies howling at the Moon for 24 hours over this one.
4

Iain fae Elgin,

09/04/2008 13:01:16
"Stuart Hay, head of campaigns at Friends of the Earth Scotland, said: "This just goes to show the madness of going ahead with a new generation of nuclear power stations in the UK.""

How does it? Are they going to be built with their foundations underwater or something?

And do you not want nuclear power then? Unless your telephone/email is run off a wind turbine, you NEVER drive or take public trasnport, and you grow ALL your own food, you can keep your holier than thou approach and stick it.
5

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

Newington 09/04/2008 13:01:49
Put them in as baggage at Heathrow Terminal 5 and you'll never see them again.
6

The_Doctor,

09/04/2008 13:02:58
All nuclear subs have holes in them. They are to let the crew in an out, or possibly to shoot missiles out of.
7

Environmental Terrorist,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 13:04:26
Oh dear... they found a hole in a ballast tank. If I get a hole in my bath, I patch it up. With nothing in the bath, there is nothing to leak out.

I'm certain there is no 'harmful' materials sitting around in a ballast tank. Complete non-story to further the SNP's policy on ridding scotland of nuclear weapons anyone?
8

,

09/04/2008 13:05:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

Phil MaGlass,

Voorburg 09/04/2008 13:06:20
no6 hahaha
10

n1vek,

edinburgh 09/04/2008 13:07:58
I was working next to Dreadnought in the mid 80's & she looked like you could poke your finger through her hull. Why don't they at least lift them out of the salt water or even better store them in Plymouth.
11

Bob 2,

09/04/2008 13:08:39
No2......nothing to worry about?

ever wondered why they have been dumped up north for storage.

No5..given the locality of Most (all) Nuclear Power Stations next to the sea and rising sea levels due to Global Warming...there foundations may be underwater.

12

Farky,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 13:16:02
Now it is clearer than ever why the SNP are anti nuclear!

Send these rusting hulks to the Thames Estuary and let them rot there... Right outside Westmister would be even better. No chance of that but Westmisnter seems to think it's acceptable to dump nuclear waste in Scotland!

I do wish the Scottish people would wake up to what abuses of their own country are happening right under their noses.
13

Unimpressed one,

09/04/2008 13:16:23
'Stuart Hay, head of campaigns at Friends of the Earth Scotland, said: "This just goes to show the madness of going ahead with a new generation of nuclear power stations in the UK."'

'Royal Navy spokesman Neil Smith said: "The hole was immediately plugged. There was no chance of the boat sinking and absolutely no risk to the environment or wider community."'

Should the government listen to FoE loony and base it's future civil nuclear programme based on his 'expert' rant or the navy's spokesman? Hmm, difficult call to make.
14

Florentine_Pogen,

09/04/2008 13:57:50
Has Vlad been informed about the state of his sub ?
15

Raoul Duke,

09/04/2008 14:06:16
And why wouldn’t the SNP, or anyone in this country, want rid of nuclear??? I would like all the clowns on here to actually justify their 'green loonies' statements. Please justify why we should actually have nuclear weapons and nuclear power, as opposed to not having nuclear weapons and using renewable forms of power. Naw, never gonnae happen.
16

steve 1511,

aberdeen 09/04/2008 14:17:05
as we are assured by the london labour government that the subs are safe, they should be berthed in the thames next to hms belfast in central london as a tourist attraction,i am sure londoners will apreciated this gesture of goodwill from the people of the central belt of scotland and its government,the south east has had billions pumped into it with the olympics,cross rail and the channel rail link,so i am sure mr brown will find the millions required to fund this tourist attraction that could be up and running for the olympic visitors
17

Gastric Antral Vascular Ectasia,

09/04/2008 14:41:20
Hey steve 1511, have you heard about this great new punctuation mark? It's called the "full stop". Look, I've just used one there. And another. They're really great devices, full stops. They help form sentences, as opposed to monotonous streams of semi-coherent ranting that make some people want to stick pins in their eyes.
18

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 15:19:48
Steve 1511,

You can't use them as a tourist attraction. A little matter known as the Official Secrets Act puts paid to that.

Unimpressed:

I'd go for the Navy guy's account. He has in all probability passed numerous courses on nuclear reactors in general and nuclear submarines in particular. Whereas the FoE bloke is probably going on nothing more than hearsay and supposition.
19

The_Doctor,

09/04/2008 15:33:36
Royal Navy spokesman Neil Smith said: "The hole was immediately plugged. There was no chance of the boat sinking..."

Isn't that a bit of a design flaw for a submarine? I thought they were supposed to sink?
20

THE BPRENTICE,

09/04/2008 15:33:45
Royal Navy spokesman Neil Smith said: "The hole was immediately plugged. There was no chance of the boat sinking and absolutely no risk to the environment or wider community."

Is Neil Smith the new Chemical Ally?

One of my best mates is a scientist that is involved with nuclear waste mgt on the south coast - going by stories I've heard about the state of things down there - I wouldn't be too quick to say this is a non-story, what John Large is saying should be of interest.
21

Captain Flint,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 15:51:17
I served with HMS Revenge's Port Crew right at the end of her service life in the early 1990s. I can't say that this incident surprises me greatly, given the state that she was in for her last couple of patrols. Her primary circuit was cracked to damnation, but the MoD persisted in sending her to sea in spite of the warnings of her engineering staff.

In comparison, this wee hole in a ballast tank is a bit of a non-story, but it does emphasise the urgent need for something to be done with these old boats instead of leaving them in the water to rust away.

They need to be taken out of the water and have their reactor compartments cut out, welded up and stored in a secure compound. This is what pretty much every other nuclear navy does with their reactor compartments. (Apart from the Russians; They just chuck them into the sea while no-one's looking.) The pressure hulls and bulkheads round the RCs are plenty thick enough to prevent any radiation getting out. In a hundred years or so, the levels of radioactivity will probably have dropped enough for them to be scrapped as normal.

There's plenty of space in Rosyth for the RCs of the seven boats that are there just now, but it shouldn't open the door for more and more nuclear waste to end up there.

PS Perhaps Mr High Octane thinks that this kind of event strengthens the case for nuclear power?
22

Robert12,

09/04/2008 16:23:03
Classic EN - This story is from last weeks Dunfermline Press...
23

Paul Voltiare,

09/04/2008 16:25:07
Thank goodness it wasn't below the waterline or we would have had another Titanic on our hands.
24

Iain fae Elgin,

09/04/2008 16:28:08
#17...

The so called 'green loonies' don't like CO2 emissions, they don't like big wind turbines because they shred birds and make the landscape look ugly, they don't like nuclear because of the waste, they don't like tidal barrages because of wildlife, and for a realistic amount of electricity to be generated from solar panels you'd probably have to cover half of Sutherland in them (sheep have rights too you know!)

Many green ideas are indeed sustainable on a micro scale, but try applying on a macro scale to the general population and it doesn't take long for the flaws to become apparent.

Nuclear waste is undoubtably a problem, but the alternative is a lot worse. Better future generations inherit a radiation problem that they might be scientifically able to deal with rather than the present CO2 nightmare that they invariably won't be able to sort.

25

yockel,

09/04/2008 16:54:01
Move them to Portsmouth?
26

Jimmy the Pie,

09/04/2008 17:00:40
Quick tell Daft Hamish Macdonnel

As this hole has just appeared it must be the fault of Alex Salmond and his SNP government. Let Red Wendy know. She'll put a spin on the story.
27

Saintee,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 17:17:51
#26

So you you are happy to give future generations a definite, serious problem (ie nuclear waste) rather than one that is still unproven (the "CO2 nightmare").

The only nightmarish thing about the CO2 thing is the way people present global warming as "fact" and foolishly, unquestioningly accept the rubbish that is spouted about it.

28

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 17:42:14
Sorry to knock anybody's faith in the RN. If their spokesman is Neil Smith, Head of Regional Media and Communications, Royal Navy then his knowledge of nuclear may not be as great as some of the comments suggest.
29

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 17:45:17
#23:

"PS Perhaps Mr High Octane thinks that this kind of event strengthens the case for nuclear power?"

No. I don't. However it doesn't weaken the case for it either.
30

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

Newington 09/04/2008 18:24:49
If these microbes in the water can eat their way through half an inch of submarine, why don't we just leave the waste there and let them eat their way through that too?

The poor wee beasties must be pretty hungry eh?
31

John Knox furr First Meenister,

09/04/2008 19:45:20
Ahoy there, Cap'n Flint writes, "a hundred years or so, the levels of radioactivity will probably have dropped enough for them to be scrapped as normal."
Well, that's good enough for me. Break out the rum!
32

tomias,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 21:50:28
Tom Lrher is 80 today; see his Von Braun somg and bombs going off
33

is it me?,

Edinburgh 09/04/2008 22:07:49
"move them to Portsmouth;Plymouth; the Thames". ...anywhere but Bonnie Scotland.

These boats belong to The Royal Navy of Great Britain, of which Scotland is still a part. These are OUR boats.

Stand up anyone who thought that Devolution would only entitle Scotland to the good bits.

(Sit down Alex, you toly).
34

,

09/04/2008 23:15:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:

 

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