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Monday, 2nd November 2009 Change Date Latest Issue

Docks plan cleared for launch

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Published Date: 21 August 2008
THE massive regeneration of Leith Docks featuring more than 15,000 new homes is set to get the go-ahead from city councillors.
Officials today came out in support of the biggest planning application ever to come before the council, which is designed to create thousands of jobs, generate billions of pounds in investment and make Edinburgh's waterfront a "world-class" destination over the next 20-30 years.

However, the developer, Forth Ports, will be forced to meet a huge number of requirements, including a larger-than-expected contribution to the city's tram network of nearly £29 million.

The council is also set to demand:

• A minimum of 30 per cent family housing with three or more bedrooms.

• A new secondary school for 1000 pupils, three primary schools for more than 1300 pupils, and new classrooms at existing Catholic schools.

• A new swimming pool, sports hall, pitches and skatepark.

• £34m for transport improvements.

Just 14 objections to the massive plan have been lodged with the city council, including one by retail giant John Lewis, which warned that city centre shops will be threatened.

Other concerns have been raised by officials about the impact on air quality, with more traffic on already congested roads creating "the potential to compromise this council's ability to work towards EU local air quality targets".

Despite this, head of planning Alan Henderson has recommended that councillors approve the development at their meeting next week. He said: "The proposal... will achieve a number of benefits. These include: the creation of a new mixed-use sustainable community; (and] a development that will make a significant contribution to the city's housing stock."

City economic development leader Tom Buchanan added: "As Edinburgh continues to grow, the regeneration of the Waterfront will be of strategic importance and will play a role in the future economic, social and cultural life of the city which will undoubtedly benefit Scotland as a whole."

Eventually, nine "urban villages" will be created, with more detailed masterplans to follow. Independent assessors have said the application, together with developments at Western Harbour and Granton, will attract more than £5 billion-worth of private investment.

The first masterplan, for an area around Ocean Terminal dubbed The Hub, is likely to be published later this year, and will include a new cultural quarter.

The entire scheme covers 350 acres of industrial land around Imperial, Victoria, Albert and Edinburgh docks.

The transport improvements demanded by the council include new pedestrian and cycle routes; 19 road junction upgrades; a controlled parking zone enforced by council wardens; money to ensure buses run at least every ten minutes during the day; a car club car within 100 metres of every property; and a contribution to a cycle hire scheme.

Alan Robertson, managing director of the property group Jones Lang LaSalle Scotland, said: "There is an opportunity to replicate the outstanding re- generation efforts which have transformed the likes of Canary Wharf and Greenwich in London and reinforce Edinburgh's reputation as one of the top cities in Europe to live and work.

"I urge the council to approve this outline planning application."

The scheme includes 15,200 residential units, including close to 1000 houses. One-quarter will be classed as "affordable".

Twenty-six per cent of the land has been earmarked for open space, which includes a central Mulberry Park, and Leith Sands, which forms part of the Leith Links seaward extension.

Business use will be primarily centred around Ocean Terminal, with industrial land elsewhere, including a possible tram depot. Dozens of shops and restaurants will also be built, largely around Ocean Terminal at what will be called Waterfront Plaza, the main public space to the east of the existing shopping centre. Most of the shops are expected to be small, but there may be a supermarket serving the eastern part.

It is likely the scheme will also incorporate community and medical centres, libraries, churches and emergency service bases, with an estimated 80 new police officers needed.

Many of the proposed buildings have eight or more floors, while there are also plans for a tower that could be up to 28 storeys high.

Scottish Natural Heritage has objected, but this will be withdrawn once measures are agreed to protect local wildlife.

Checks will be made for 30 minutes prior to any excavation work to ensure whales or dolphins are not in the area, and no work will take place on the foreshore between October and March to protect the tern colony.

Fife Council has called for a cross-forth hovercraft terminal to be included, while Historic Scotland is concerned about the height of buildings.

Leith Harbour and Newhaven Community Council said the application "seems very professional and visionary, and is badly needed."


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 21 August 2008 2:14 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Some guy,

21/08/2008 12:07:54
They're struggling to get enough developers to progress the existing masterplan further along at Granton Harbour why do they need another one?
2

Spotty Geek,

Wauchope Street 21/08/2008 12:11:48
Leith will just be one big ghetto full of neds when it's finished
3

Cappo Del Monte,

21/08/2008 12:13:45
Thats got to be a whopper of a brown envelope that changed hands there, but as #1 says, they cant even get a developer just now to build at Granton, never mind the old bond site right outside FPA's main gate
4

Cappo Del Monte,

21/08/2008 12:14:06
#2 but they will be rich neds
5

Dunaskin,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 12:14:45
Cumbernauld-by-the-sea? What are all these folk going to do? Forth Ports are busy driving employers and jobs out of Leith, to replace them with McJobs in cafes.
6

Bigwull,

edinburgh 21/08/2008 12:15:50
How about re-developing and provide facilities to the west side of Edinburgh for a change. The Gorgie/Dalry area is fast becoming a dump.
7

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 12:15:51
This article is interesting given the fact that the likes of economists like Mike Holmes etc would have us believe that Edinburgh's property market is going to decline; obviously others with more knowledge take a different view with a positive attitude and do not share the views of others who merely leave comments on this site so that they can pretend to have something interesting to write about - pathetic!
8

Andrew Kent,

EDINBURGH 21/08/2008 12:19:24
A shame that this development is never going to be built given that they can't sell the houses that they have already built down there.
9

Dunaskin,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 12:20:08
#7 = go talk to a property lawyer - they'll tell you that things are grim. Good property in good locations (not new-build) sells, the rest is static.
10

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 12:22:36
No 9 - I am a lawyer and my firm has a massive property department so I think I know a wee bit more than you! This development is years away and I am certain by the time construction starts it will be business as usual, but keep up with the doom and gloom if you want!
11

Spotty Geek,

Wauchope Street 21/08/2008 12:28:03
9#

Just as weil my ma and pa bought this hoose in this good location
12

ccc,

21/08/2008 12:32:46
#7

"Mike Holmes etc would have us believe believe that Edinburgh's property market is going to decline"

Ehhh it already is decliningg. As confirmed by yourself. :)

There are developments all over the city being canned/put on ice at present.

Just where exactly is the (a)money & (b) demand going to come from for ANOTHER development that contains 15,000 new homes ?

Not long before the Poles start heading home in their droves too. Remember there were about 30,000 of them in this city at the last estimate.

As for 'doom and gloom' that is only your perogative. You are someone who has made very good money of this sort of 'development' and the great 'boom' of the past few years. This will now stop. With the greatest of respect don't expect any of us individuals to feel sorry for you. Take the good with the bad. If you can't cope with that you don't deserve to be in business. Again no offence intended. Just harsh reality.

What is 'gloom' for you is a 'bonus' for many others, including myself.

Let's not forget that.
13

Steven P,

edinburgh 21/08/2008 12:34:45
#10 is right in that any development is years away, but I'm intrigued by his/her prediction of a rteurn to 'business as usual'. Surely recent history of excess credit and inflated house prices is anything but the norm and that a return to a sustained period of realistic credit terms will follow. Where exactly is the £5bn in investment likely to come from?
14

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 12:38:59
CCC - you have missed my point! You are right the property market in Edinburgh is struggling but it will come back as soon as the banks become more comfortable with their lending! There will be no fire sale - this is just something that people have suggested so they feel they have something sensational to tell us/write about!

Do you not think it is nice to see a positive article for a change which shows that Edinburgh has some good projects for the future? The developers obviously take the view that things will change as do the majority of individuals involved with property.

This article is not just about housing!
15

Dunaskin,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 12:41:20
The Landlord - I agree that it will be years away - decades even. But I'm not convinced that the continued growth model is sustainable given energy supply/source problems, etc, so 'business as usual' in 2020 may not be what we imagine it to be.
16

,

21/08/2008 12:50:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
17

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 12:53:35
#24 - It ain't gonna come back for a long long time as the UK is on the brink of a recession coupled with major lasting changes in terms of affordability criteria and pricing of mortages.

Also, do not confuse promoters with developers. Forth Ports is promoting the scheme to make money but ultimately other companies will be needed to develop it. And many of them are on the brink of going bust.
18

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 12:54:19
#17 - Was addressed at #14, not24!
19

ccc,

21/08/2008 12:57:02
#14

"it will come back as soon as the banks become more comfortable with their lending!"

I think you should read what #13 has said. The banks HAVE ALREADY become comfortable with their lending. What has happened in the last 5 years was the EXCEPTION not the rule. Why do you not know this if your business is property !! Do you not read about the past ?!! I assume you either have a short memory or you are too young to remember what 'normal' lending is.

As for the story itself nothing against 'positive' stories about Edinburgh. However all we have had for years is 'positive' stories about this city with a distinct lack of REALISM.

Remember this time last year ? Do you know what the 'positive stories' were about Edinburgh then ?

Yes you guessed it - The Granton Redevelopment.

As I said a distinct lack of realism. I said back then Granton would be a disaster and it is.

How can the story above have any place in an honest and realistic evaluation of the current situation ?

Yes this Leith development MAY go ahead sometime in the future, but that is likely to be well over a decade away, so why write a story about it today...
20

Keith 1,

Edinburgh, UK 21/08/2008 12:59:07
It is very simple. These developers need to build to meet depend not build based on predicted demand. The reason I say this is that noone (on earth anyway) can predict the future. This is confirmed by the current situation as noone 12-18 months ago seen this downturn coming although common sense tells you it was a bubble waiting to burst.

It is only sensible that building work stops for now and over time they sell the apartments that have been build or are nearly completed first, which they will do eventually. I guess this article is taking a medium to long term view I have no doubt that in years to come we will be saying "credit crunch - what was that"!
21

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 13:01:10
Graeme - I am not aware of any major developer being on the brink of going bust so I am not sure who you are talking about? Perhaps you are just speculating?
22

ccc,

21/08/2008 13:02:27
#14

And yes this article is not just about housing. However with over 15,000 residential units at the centre of the plan - housing is clearly the driving factor behind all this.

"The scheme includes 15,200 residential units, including close to 1000 houses"


Maybe they could have a plan for a redevelopment somewhere that does not include thousands of cheaply built 'apartments'....

The above plan includes 14000 'apartments' and 1000 houses.....

It is simply another greedy poorly thought out idea.

Crazy thought I know..
23

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 13:04:29
CCC I think you have failed to grasp the situation fully and you are simply trying to convince yourself that we will have a melt down and you will be able to afford a house! You can convince yourself as much as you want but at the end of the day whilst things are not brilliant now it will come back!
24

Buttress,

21/08/2008 13:07:30
This is one of the developments Historic Scotland has asked UNESCO to look at as it is concerned the tower height will affect the WHS.

Canary Wharf? Ghastly and soulless place.

25

Bill MacD,

21/08/2008 13:09:10
More insipid 'international' design from our disastrous planning numpties. Vision? Yeah, right. Respect for local idioms and traditions? Give me a laugh! Just the latest faddish styles that could be anywhere in the world. Please, before this city is permanently ruined, let's sack this bunch of trend-following ideas-free idiots and get people involved who can create new build that speaks about Edinburgh for future generations, and isn't just a desperate bid to show off in architectural journals to other faddish architects.
26

Dunaskin,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 13:10:13
#21 - lots of big builders are laying off workers. This is fact, not speculation. Bovis, Barratt, Persimmon, you name 'em.
27

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 13:13:57
You are right they are laying off workers as they slow down due to the current poor market situations - this is normal! You mentioned the developers were going bust which is absolute rubbish (there is a difference) - read your own comment!
28

ccc,

21/08/2008 13:18:23
#23

Why do I have to explain this so often. I can afford to buy a house !! Easy.

So many people instantly think if you have any money sitting there 'YOU MUST BUY A HOUSE'.

They just don't get that there are good times to do this and bad times to do this. If you CAN afford to wait it makes sense to do so.

In recent times I will give you 2 examples:

1998 - Great time to buy your first house in Edinburgh.
2007 - Horrific time to buy your first house in Edinburgh.

I will simply wait for the next 'great time' to appear. The longer that takes the more cash I will have. Win win situation. (Unless the entire financial system collapses of course !! )

Why do you not agree with this ? Unless of course you think that history will not repeat itself and if you didn't buy in 98 you are goosed forever.

Chances of that being true ? About 1 hundred to one. If that.
29

Dunaskin,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 13:18:43
#27 - I did not say that the developers are going bust - Graeme did.
30

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 13:19:54
#21 - A number of smaller developers have gone under and there have been plenty of stories of property companies having significant problems including Barratt, Bovis, etc. Over 75% of listed property companies have now issued profit warings.

These companies that continue to operate have had to take drastic action including stopping new developments and laying off thousands of staff or else they would have gone bust. They remain significantly financially constrained and are highly unlikely to be able to finance large scale apartment developments, particularly those in secondary locations like Leith.
31

ccc,

21/08/2008 13:21:16
#27

"You mentioned the developers were going bust which is absolute rubbish"

Ehh do you know anything about these companies ?

Let's take Barrats as an example.

Current worth - Circa £300 million.
Current debt - Circa £1.5 BILLION.

Major assets - Land Banks.
Land banks = dropping in value very day.

Not bankrupt...............................yet.
32

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 13:29:13
Ha ha ha ha - trust me when I say this these companies have extremley deep pockets and there is only likely to be one casualty out of them all! Just because they off load employees when the market is rubbish it does not mean that they are on the brink - this is just common sense! I would like to see where you get the fact about profits warnings but even if 75% of them are all it means is that they will not have distributable profits this year, however, they have been making huge profits for years and will continue to do so in the future. The profit warnings have arisen because the crunch came about swiftly and caught them out; that is all!

CCC - missing my point again!
33

East at Easter,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 13:34:30
Fantastic new for Leith. What a place it will be to live and work. Amazing !
34

elayne,

21/08/2008 13:36:16
"affordable"my @rse!
35

Spotty Geek,

Wauchope Street 21/08/2008 13:45:53
34#

Don't want to know about your @rse hen
36

ccc,

21/08/2008 13:50:20
#32 LANDLORD

"I am a lawyer and my firm has a massive property department"

"I would like to see where you get the fact about profits warnings"

BARRATT PROFIT WARNING

http://www.homemove.co.uk/news/11-06-2008/barratt-developments-in-crisis-as-share-price-plummets.html

BOVIS PROFIT WARNING

http://www.homemove.co.uk/news/07-05-2008/bovis-homes-issues-profit-warning.html

WIMPEY PROFIT WARNING

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/taylorwimpey


So let me get this straight:

You are a lawyer and your firm has a massive property department

Yet you don't even know these PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT companies have issued profit warnings....

Please tell us what company it is. This is scary. This is really scary. You simply do not have a clue about the business you work in.

"These companies have extremley deep pockets"

Jeez you donn't get it do you ? These firms do not have extremely big pockets. THEIR CREDITORS DO. Have a look at BARRATTS books. They have 5 TIMES MORE DEBT THAN THEIR NET WORTH.

So as long as their creditors are going along nicely with their big pockets full of cash - then yes you are right the builders have nothing to worry about. Oh woops...

37

Spotty Geek,

Wauchope Street 21/08/2008 13:52:59
I have to agree with the Landlord.

Persimmon announced a fall in profits today, but they are still making a profit - all they do is shed staff -and if they need any more cash they go for a rights issue.

Don't feel sorry for the builders - they are very quiet when things are going well (the last 15 years)
38

ccc,

21/08/2008 14:06:27
"and if they need any more cash they go for a rights issue"

I get a funny feeling that may not work out as expected. Just ask HBOS and B & B.
39

noswod,

Honesty 21/08/2008 14:47:53
They are building shops and restuarants and 16,000 flats where are the folk going to work ? Canary Wharf was designed to provide jobs and profits. Theres no strategic thinking behind the development other than the max profit per sq foot for the developers. No one has raised the point that is closing down the Port and associated industry a good idea ? Simply putting up flats without developing an industrial base to employ the people in them is daft. As for the Leithers they have no voice in it.
40

eric,

Lothian 21/08/2008 14:48:23
It looks like a little corner of Glasgow harbour.
41

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 14:48:24
CCC - once again you have missed my point (at least you are consistent)!

I am not the lawyer for any of the companies you have mentioned or a shareholder so why would I know that they have all issued profit warnings! Furthermore I am a corporate finance lawyer and not involved with property tranactions etc.

What I am trying to say is that these companies will survive and you clearly think that because a company issues a profit warning they are going under! When a company issues a profit warning it only means that it is unlikley they will be able to pay their shareholders a dividend that year - it DOES NOT mean that they are warning their shareholders they are about to go bust! As I mentioned before the developers were caught off-guard with this one and I am sure that in a few years time they will be distributing dividends as normal. I hope you can appreciate the difference but I doubt it!
42

Spotty Geek,

Wauchope Street 21/08/2008 15:02:38
They'll just fill these flats with scum on benefits
43

Andy Pandy,

Loanhead 21/08/2008 15:48:24
As the snow flies
On a cold and gray granton mornin
A poor little baby child is born
In the ghetto

And his mama cries
cause if theres one thing that she dont need
Its another hungry mouth to feed
In the ghetto

44

tomias,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 15:57:48
Excellent transport services
45

Statsman,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 16:23:19
£29m for trams. That clearly did not influence the decision in any way.
46

Some guy,

21/08/2008 16:31:26
#46 all developers that want to build in that area have to contribute to the Trams. The developers haven't paid the money yet, it is a condition of the approval that the money is to be paid and is the same for every development near the route.

As for the property market everyone keeps saying no demand... Landlord is right there is still huge demand for property in Edinburgh the difference is that banks wont lend the money any more. The initial cause of the banks stopping lending here wasn't due to making huge losses on the mortages, it was knock on effects from investments the bank had in the american market.
I have to say i'm not a financial expert but i dont get the stricter mortgage conditions. Surely if your profits are falling then you want more customers not less?
47

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 21/08/2008 16:52:40
#47 Thank you - at last someone with some sense!

I am no finance expert either but I think they have introduced stricter conditions within the mortgage market to reduce their potential liability to additional losses whereby at this point in time the majority of banks have not worked out the full extent of their losses; thus after a few years once they have the complete picture I hope we will see 100% mortgages back.
48

ccc,

21/08/2008 17:25:13
#42. BUSTED !!!!

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/City-builders-hit-a-brick.4399709.jp

Comment #25.

So 3 days ago you were "a solicitor within one of the largest property firms in Edinburgh"

Today you are "a corporate finance lawyer and not involved with property tranactions etc."

Wow !! That is some change of proffesion in the space of 3 days.

Nobody listen to what this chump has to say. Clearly talking out of their backside. Although that was pretty obvious all along.

:)
49

Lord_S,

Ediburgh 21/08/2008 17:45:32
Nice one ccc!

I doubt anyone would fall for his nonsense anyway. Would a genuine "corporate finance lawyer" write something as juvenile as: "I am a lawyer and my firm has a massive property department so I think I know a wee bit more than you"? I seriously doubt it.
50

ccc,

21/08/2008 17:54:56
#50.

I was starting to believe 'The Landlord' !!

Scary thing is - a fair few people in seriously important positions actually do know very little.
51

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

21/08/2008 20:16:44
Leith docks will be sunk if the City's economic leader - Councillor Tom Buchanan - has anything to do with it. Look at the mess he left behind as chairman of the Alnwickhill Proprietors Association.
52

Goat Boy,

21/08/2008 20:56:17
THIS is the real reason for the tram fiasco.
53

THE BPRENTICE,

21/08/2008 21:45:27
they should sort out the Seafield stink-fest first!!!
54

Spotty Geek,

Wauchope Street 22/08/2008 08:53:31
Landlord

Well done for irritating these numpties

Keep up the good work!
55

The Landlord,

Edinburgh 22/08/2008 09:40:18
CCC - you are so dumb it is funny!

The firm I work for has a massive property department but I work in the corporate department what is so difficult to believe about that! My firm is almost full service which means we also have private client lawyers; employment lawyers; tax lawyers - this is common CCC and there are thousands of firms that operate this way around the world! Just because we have a property department it does not mean we only do property! You are really really stupid!!!!! Ha ha ha ha - it is funny though!
56

,

22/08/2008 10:12:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
57

Lord_S,

Dumpinburgh 22/08/2008 13:00:39
Seems to me that CCC is one of the only posters who isn't delusional. I'm a pychologist specialising in delusional fantasy so I think I know a wee bit more than you. see - I can lie too!

In my expert opinion the delusional ones are those that have been conditioned to 'enjoy' paying massively for awful little houses and flats in desolate schemes. Some people have a lot of growing up to do.

 

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