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Saturday, 21st November 2009 Change Date

Bin men making privatising jobs easier, says Cardownie

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Published Date: 13 August 2009
DEPUTY city leader Steve Cardownie today warned bin men that continuing their industrial action would only make it easier for the council to give their jobs to the private sector.
Bin men are due to start official industrial action, "short of a strike", next week, following six weeks of an unofficial work-to-rule that saw rubbish pile up on the Capital's streets.

The council is already facing a £92 million "black hole" in its finances and a review into which services could be tendered out is already under way.

Councillor Cardownie believes that the current action will provide more weight for the argument to privatise refuse collection.

"We are resolved to see this through," he said. "We still think this is a good offer, we still want to resolve this satisfactorily and we still want to retain the service provision in-house, but we are under more and more pressure, as industrial action goes on, to look elsewhere for provision – and that is the private sector."

It has not yet been revealed exactly what next week's official action will involve, although the council expects that the level of disruption will be similar to the unofficial action that has now been happening for six weeks.

With private contractors having helped to now reduce the delays affecting rubbish collection to a matter of days, rather than up to four weeks previously, Cllr Cardownie believes the dispute will impact what people think of the idea of tendering out the service.

He said: "Members of the public will now get the chance to compare the kind of service that they get from the public sector in terms of the service the council provides and make comparisons.

"There is a process you have to go through to contract out work. It won't happen overnight but certainly we are looking at more efficient ways to do the service we do for the people of this city, especially during the recession and the massive cuts to public expenditure we will be experiencing. We'd be foolish not to.

"If more people think waste disposal (staff) are more prone to take industrial action, it will lend weight to the clamour that these services should be privatised."

Cllr Iain Whyte, the city's Conservative leader, has tabled a motion for next week's full council meeting calling for the city to "market test" how much companies would be seeking to carry out the service.

He said: "

This is the most visible service the council provides. At the moment, it is failing to meet the needs and expectations of council tax payers.

"Council employees have to consider that the service is there for the public and not just to provide a service for ideological or political reasons."

Officials from trade union Unite could not be contacted.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 13 August 2009 10:24 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Edinburgh Council
 
1

alfonsa pedrosa,

embra 13/08/2009 11:58:32
This is a great idea,maybe the unions will think twice,also other fools wanting to jump on the bandwagon.
2

XTX,

13/08/2009 12:09:10
Where do we sign up for this?

Why has it not happened yet?

Maybe then all our bins will be emptied, and the city will look a better place (if you excuse the tram works)

Im sure Paul the Binman will drag his 'on the sick a55' to his screen to comment on this story.

3

onetimeonlyagain,

Inch 13/08/2009 12:14:59
Can the council just hurry up with a solution on this? I am sick of constantly spraying massive blue bottles in my house! Stopped opening my windows for the smell of people burning their own rubbish! Not only is it disgusting, its also dangerous! The council have let this go on for to long!
4

Junglebhoy,

Livingston 13/08/2009 12:19:59
#5 Do what a lot of people are doing, take it to one of the four civic sites, then it's gone.
5

Bitchblonde,

13/08/2009 12:21:48
Sorry but it's not the econimic time of year to be striking. Sack the lot of them!!! They are lucky to have jobs at moment. For the god knows how many hundreds of bin men there are, there are another double the number of unemployed people looking for work that I am sure would be quite happy to take over where they left off. Idiots!!!
6

Bitchblonde,

13/08/2009 12:22:36
Whoops, I meant 'economic' above
7

Junglebhoy,

Livingston 13/08/2009 12:24:24
#7 Wonder if you would say that, if you were told to take an up to £6.5k pay cut.
8

FF,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 12:27:36
#6 Junglebhoy, that's a practical thing to do. But the fact is, people are not doing what they are paid to do.

And don't talk about "working to rule". They're not.
9

Big T,

13/08/2009 12:31:09
"Working to rule" is just another term for doing as little as possible whilst still getting paid...

...pretty much what council workers have been doing for years!!!
10

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 12:31:29
Others may not agree, but I think Steve Cardownie is beginning to look and sound more and more like Benito Mussolini with every day thay passes.
11

Foo,

13/08/2009 12:33:48
12

I think he has more of a Dr Evil look about him. He'd look great with a white cat under his arm.
12

James (1),

13/08/2009 12:34:56
Work to rule then strike! The council will not back down but will have the excuse to bring in private contractors.
As any miner will tell you, being right does not mean you will keep your job.
Still the bin men can alway apply to the contractors. This is just what they did with hospital cleaners. Out to tender, cheapest employed and standards dropped but did the public object? No they just put up with the increased infections.
13

cm,

edinburgh 13/08/2009 12:35:43
i love the way every one wants the bin men sacked for working to rule. and at the same time complaining that there are flies and smells and potenial rats etc etc. Do you not think that persons undertaking such a vital job which helps prevent the spread of diease and vermin should be paid a decent salary. yes there are people out there who would take their jobs for minimum wage but this is a crucial job which deserves a decent salary.
funny how there are thousands of bankers in the city who will receive bounus larger than a binmans pay, and your all harkinng on about the binmen. get it into perspective , binmen do a vital job which is not appreciated until they go on strike , bankers do (*&^ all and do not benefit anyone but themselves.

private contractors will ultimately cost us much more. do you think private companies do it for fun, no they do it for profit at our expense.
14

Mr Sensible,

13/08/2009 12:38:32
Jungle bhoy at 6. So a council tax payer who is paying for services of wich the collection and disposal of rubbish is one,that service is not happening as it should and your answer is "take it to one of the four civic sites" then it's gone.

What a fool you are,if you take what you say then why pay for a rubbish collection in the first place...your soloution is we all take our own rubbish to the tip and therefore no requirement for refuse workers.

Think again,there is a reason why domestic and business waste is collected go figure it out son.
15

Bring Back Poll Tax,

13/08/2009 12:44:47
#15 "yes there are people out there who would take their jobs for minimum wage" - yes - exactly because it's just unskilled manual labour that anyone with the intelligence to tie their own showlaces can be trained to do in about an hour and a half (plus the 3 days for inclusiveness training and Health and safety drivel).

Oh yes, you need the odd driver too, they're not exactly rare either.
16

binty jinty,

edinburgh 13/08/2009 12:47:19
i think you lot that are against the bin men should wake up and smell the coffee, privatise the bins council tax goes through the roof, after all they want there wages left as they are not asking for any wage rise as some of the misinformed members of the public seem to be thinking and council officails want to lead them to believe, back the bin men kick on paul take them all the way.
17

Foo,

13/08/2009 12:47:45
16

Yes, If you are bored, why don't you?
18

FF,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 12:48:41
#12, Peter. I disagree. Steve Cardownie is not like Benito Mussolini.

If he were, he would be getting the trams to run on time
19

rob hadnum,

13/08/2009 12:51:55
poster a) see me, I support the binmen, solidarity wi the workers and all that, he council boses are the bad ones

poster b) see me, I hate the lazy gits, sack them aw and give the jobs to somebody else

day after day after day after day after day after day
20

Xena - Warrior Princess,

13/08/2009 12:55:18
I support the binmen all the way, they all signed contracts for their jobs. The Union appears to have let them down big time, they should never have agreed to these changes in pay and conditions without checking the consequences and then cry foul when people realised they were to lose money. As council tax payers they should ask us if we want private contractors, which I don't.
21

paul the binman,

13/08/2009 12:55:50
Is this the same council that last week said the investigation into service changes are put off until September?Is this the famous ex socialist who threw his toys out of the pram and joined the SNP,can we be seeing the true face of a possable SNP government within an Independant Scotland,cheer up Stevie,you've still got the Torys and the Liberals to join yet before you get the full set.Mind you,you may be a bit far right for the Torys but not far enough for the liberals,ooopppps a bit political there,sorry if I am upsetting any one,would'nt want the same punishment as some other people are getting.
22

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 13:00:38
#23 FF,

"........he would be getting the trams to run on time"

True, but he would also probably be feeding the binmen on a diet of castor oil!!
23

Ecto,

13/08/2009 13:01:19
EEN- Bored with Bin Men Stories

Cooncil- Sort this out either sack them or outsource the lot

Bin Men- Get back to work or the end is nigh for the lot of you

Now no more about BINS please
24

Big T,

13/08/2009 13:01:24
#25

As a council tax payer I want my bin emptied!!!
25

binty jinty,

dunfermline 13/08/2009 13:04:03
# is this a new thing with the council a 3 days inclusive training and health and saftey drive,its never been known to happen in the past.
26

chuck nor,

13/08/2009 13:04:30
steve cardowie self employed private hire car operator/driver/councillor .three jobs and owner a house bellevue ter eh .keep it real eh
27

,

13/08/2009 13:05:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
28

Bling Crosby,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 13:06:40
THAT DUDE IN THE PHOTO LOOKS LIKE JOHN LOCKE FROM LOST.

OPEN THE HATCH JOHN.
29

paul the binman,

13/08/2009 13:07:44
If they gave the private sector the same 3 day health and safety training then, where and when did they do it,or are you saying they moved the private sector in days before deploying them and also informing the public and the workforce about it
30

Gie's a break,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 13:11:46
Obviously under a work to rule Clown Cardownie doesn't have to wait three weeks for his bins to be emptied or he'd be just as unimpressed as I am with the private sector contractors.

Only real solution is to move to a street on which a councillor lives. It appears they don't have to wait three weeks for each collection!!
31

Bling Crosby,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 13:11:49
#34 HOW'S YOUR BACK?
32

Spock,

13/08/2009 13:13:03
#9 If you care to open your eyes you will see that many people in this city have either lost their jobs already, taken a pay cut, and or taken a pay freeze, and or been on a four day week since last year.

IF THEY DON'T WANT TO WORK GET RID NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
33

paul the binman,

13/08/2009 13:14:34
I've got no problem with my back,must be mixing me up with some one else,maybe the poor sap the council are hounding huh?
34

Bling Crosby,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 13:16:39
#38

OH COME OFF IT.
35

JWW,

Whitburn,West Lothian, 55.86667 -3.68500 13/08/2009 13:19:59
I wonder if Councillor Cardownie has ever read the novel,Fame is the spur?
36

the plum,

13/08/2009 13:22:44
mmmm...yeah privatisation works...just lokk at the railways...thanks thatcher, for privatisation the country is in a much better state now that sahreholders have to be paid back rather than providing an accountable service...thanks thatcher...thanks...thankyou...

getta hair cut maggie
37

,

13/08/2009 13:25:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
38

chuck nor,

13/08/2009 13:26:28

33 more like chunk fae goonies
39

chuck nor,

13/08/2009 13:29:41
42 ya pure mad dafty
40

the plum,

13/08/2009 13:32:10
#42
so if you are as thinck as pig5hit - you don't deserve to decent wage? is this right? is this what you believe? do you believe in a class system? you appear to be a collosal green pus filled scab of putridness. everyone deserves a decent wage so that they can try and provide their family and themselves with a decent life and comfortable pair of shoes not held together with rubber bands like your mind and morals appear to be...i question your motives...i question you humanity...i question you...good thing the rubbish is not being picked up, other wise you might find your self at the tip...RUBBISH.
41

the plum,

13/08/2009 13:32:37
42











bin
42

the plum,

13/08/2009 13:37:20
DIGESTIVE BISCUITS...

YOU ARE VOMIT
43

chuck nor,

13/08/2009 13:38:56
42 choob
44

diamondkid,

13/08/2009 13:45:03
Cardownie's a plum.

Why are these private contractors from England? That's what I want to know!
45

the plum,

13/08/2009 13:48:39
dimmondkid...

OI! he may be a plum, but he is not the plum.
46

diamondkid,

13/08/2009 13:51:29
#50

True that....I'd be outraged, he's giein plums a bad name!
47

FF,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 13:53:29
I'm not a big fan of Mr Cardownie, but in this case he's saying it as it is.

The Council have made an offer that is worse than what bin men have at the moment but which is still at the top of the range for refuse collectors in Scotland:

£18,000 to £20,000 earnings against £14,000-£18,000, rising to £22,000,
http://www.careers-scotland.org.uk/CareerInformation/Occupations/HealthandMedicine/PublicandEnvironmentalHealth/RefuseCollector.asp)

Bin men have the choice of accepting the deal. If they don't, the Council can easily outsource to private contractors - going rate, minimum wage to £6 per hour)

Bin men, over to you ....
48

the plum,

13/08/2009 13:59:59
diamondkid

thankyou or as the french dustmen might say...'mercy buckets'.

49

Scooped,

13/08/2009 14:00:20
Maybe they should privitise the roadsweepers as well. I was up the High Street this morning and I saw 3 of them with pickers leaving most of the stuff behind. Surely working to rule for a ROADSWEEPER should mean using a brush. One of them was wearing a pair of trainers as well which must go against Health & Safety. Where are the managers or are they hiding in an office somewhere earning more than the men?
50

Bling Crosby,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 14:02:07
#45
are you telling me these lazy tubes deserve the same as a policeman or soldier or nurse.

shut up.
51

paul the binman,

some where in an Al Q'aeda bunker in edinburgh 13/08/2009 14:03:00
Surely then,the council should drop the offer to £6 an hour and we should be happy to except that too,because its better than being unemployed,thats some argument mate,every employer in the future can use this argument.It will give the council even more money to spend on important new "shinny things".After all,infact wait a minute lets drop the offer to right on the legal minimum wage that will save even more money.The idea may catch on and then everybody will only take the minimum wage no matter what job,OOOH,I know lets say,everybody contributes the same and every body only takes what they need.Hmmm,if only we could put a name to this idea.....
52

Captain Jacks Back,

13/08/2009 14:03:17
Let's take a vote. Would you let the creep pictured babysit yer bairns?
53

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 14:03:58
#52 FF

"..Council can easily outsource to private contractors - going rate, minimum wage to £6 per hour)"

True, the guys doing the work for a private contractor will probably only receive the basic wage. However, as we all know the 'Contractor' will levy a huge bill (aka profit) on the Local Authority who wll simply pass this expense on to the CT payers of Edinburgh.

Like one of the earlier commentators, I hope that we, the public, are consulted as to whether or not we want a private contractor involved. For myself, I most certainly do not.



54

paul the binman,

13/08/2009 14:05:32
#56,welcome to the world of private services,these are the same private staff working all through out the center.Just think of the money saved by not issuing safety equipment......
55

FF,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 14:11:20
#58, #60

I want bin men to accept the deal, not least because I believe it's best for them. I don't want the service outsourced, but the in-house service has to justify itself as being better than the private one. And right now it isn't, because the work isn't being done. Outsourcing and £6 per hour is a very real option. And if I were a bin man I wouldn't be taking my chances.
56

John Knox furr First Meenister,

High St, Embra 13/08/2009 14:16:39
C'mon the binmen! Nice to see Cardownie looking so young - what age is his latest wife?
57

Cod,

Orange Juice 13/08/2009 14:22:45
61.

I've never known a binman like Paul before
Do do do do do do do do
My bins are smelling and he's a bore
Do do do do do do do do
The seagulls are screeching at my door
Do do do do do do do do
Go do some work, do you what you're paid for.
Do do do do do do do do
58

chuck nor,

13/08/2009 14:24:20
56 that is the private mob. dafty
59

Mr. Borat Sagdiyev,

Kuzcek, Kazakhstan 13/08/2009 14:24:45
Alright Cardownie, so this gives you an excuse to outsource bin collections.

How about this then. Where do we stop with teh privatisation... how about we privatise the whole Council and its services...

...Meaning we don't have to pay you lot any Council Tax.

Your choice Cardownie, Council-run services or no Council Tax; you can't have both. Your choice. Now choose!
60

the plum,

13/08/2009 14:33:46
bling crosby...

...you utter 5crotal discharge...yeah i am saying that they deserve fair pay so that they can provide themselves and their families a decent life...they should not feel grateful to have a job...it's a job ya 8ellend...they should be paid fairly in a way that reflects this day and age...it is not your job that makes you who you are it is what you say and do...so what you say makes you a stuck up, self satisfied, pompous git.


make me shut up...

wahta to55er you truly are.

pathetic...
61

onetimeonlyagain,

13/08/2009 14:34:06
Why do binmen honestly think they deserve that sort of salary? They clean bins for god sake? They no doubt left school with no qualifications, so what makes them think they are worthy of a salary that high?
62

Foo,

13/08/2009 14:39:06
67

"There are two reliable ways of telling if you have won an argument. The first is if your disputants switch from discussion of the facts to accusations about motives; the second, more obviously, is if they descend to mere abuse."

Try and get your point across without abuse.
63

,

13/08/2009 14:39:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
64

Peperami Sausage,

Livingston 13/08/2009 14:43:28
Less of the 'bin men' I know some bin wimmin. Not very pc! Bin people, perhaps? Refuge collectors?
65

Peperami Sausage,

Livingston 13/08/2009 14:46:13
Sack Cardownie. That would save a few bob. He just talks rubbish anyway.
66

the plum,

13/08/2009 14:49:00
foo,

gee thanks for the tips on how to win an argument...and thanks too for your advise on how to get my point across...i mean i have see how day after day you manage to win arguments on this website...may i in return try and offer somer advise to you?

when writing on here very day, try not to be a condescending and patronising all knowing cretin that is generaly viwed as ar5e pluke.

thanks again!

xoxo
67

FF,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 14:50:06
#71

Refuse to collect?
68

FF,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 14:56:39
On this occasion I don't think Cardownie is talking rubbish. Bin people would be wise to listen.
69

paul the binman,

13/08/2009 15:01:28
Be interesting to see how long the legal tendering and job evaluation takes before a contract can be issued.
70

Bling Crosby,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 15:02:22
#67 in that case we should scrap all levels of management and employment bands and pay brackets, doesn't matter if someone is as thick as sh!t compared to someone who has worked hard to get where they - because it IS ONLY A JOB.

Mr Lazy Binman should get the same amount of money as Mr Neurosurgeon because his family need the money and away from the job he is a wonderful guy.

Is that what you are saying?

Plum by name.....
71

paul the binman,

13/08/2009 15:03:16
Still,think of all the lovely money to be made from selling of refuse depots and Powderhall,mmmmmm lovely money......shinny things for council......
72

Foo,

13/08/2009 15:05:20
73

It's not about winning or losing, it's about exchanging ideas and getting a point across.

All everyone see's from you is playground style abuse directed at those whom you disagree with.

You might get a bit more sympathy from the public towards your precious cause if you weren't so abusive. As it is, you're simply perpetuating the binman stereotype as one of an abusive oaf with neither the wit nor intellect to conduct a reasoned debate

If you actually tackled the criticisms of those arguing against the binmen in a thoughtful manner, who knows, you may even win them, and yourself a little support.
73

paul the binman,

13/08/2009 15:11:07
Did you do history or has the last 100 years past you by#77,is it your true desire to see a return to the days when it was'nt what you do but what you know that marks you out for future living.If you take your argument on a sliding scale,god help nurses,lets face it,they know less than a Neurosurgeon,so by your argument their pay should be way below his.Boy the 20th century must have passed you by. "flash" Victoria is no longer on the throne and workers have democratic rights,sorry but thats just the way it is now......
74

Junglebhoy,

Livingston 13/08/2009 15:11:19
#17
Jungle bhoy at 6. So a council tax payer who is paying for services of wich the collection and disposal of rubbish is one,that service is not happening as it should and your answer is "take it to one of the four civic sites" then it's gone.

What a fool you are,if you take what you say then why pay for a rubbish collection in the first place...your soloution is we all take our own rubbish to the tip and therefore no requirement for refuse workers.

Think again,there is a reason why domestic and business waste is collected go figure it out son.

Firstly (Dad), well you called me "son", think about it yourself, your bins are being emptied, albeit very late, therefore, would this not be a good time for homes to recycle as much as possible. If I lived in Edinburgh, I would be encouraging my neighbours to do exactly that, and assisting those who do not have transport to dispose of "landfill" items.

Can I just add that council workers are not all binmen. The WTRule also include Street Cleansers, Graffiti removers, Mechanics, Gardners, Road workers, amongst others. They are all losing vast sums of money, this dispute is not all about binmen, it is about single status. Judging by your comments, and that of others, we should then be sacking ALL council workers (that work on the front line) and outsource it. RUBBISH. Pardon the pun.
Paul, keep your head up mate, dont let the b@stards beat you, there are loads of people out there who support you, and your colleagues.
75

Bling Crosby,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 15:15:19
#81

typical lazy binman talk.
76

the big team in edinburgh,

13/08/2009 15:20:57
lazy bin men get back to work and stop moaning.think yerself lucky that you have a job o.k !!!!!!!!!
77

WHS,

sunderland 13/08/2009 15:24:24
The council will not privatise the service – as it would not just affect the cleansing teams (i.e bin men etc) all the back office staff would loss there jobs – and the cost of doing this would have to be passed on to every householder.. so sacking them would not really help any one ! Anyway – you should stop looking at what the papers are saying and go ask the council employees – and they will inform you all that all is not what it seams!!! -
78

Junglebhoy,

Livingston 13/08/2009 15:24:53
#77 So how much should a "binman" get then?
79

paul the binman,

13/08/2009 15:41:40
#83,sorry I thought this a debate or an exchange of views held by differing oppinions.OOps sorry,public perception,me binman,you clever than me,sorry,forgot my place dont hit me master,me be good in future.....
80

WHS,

sunderland 13/08/2009 15:43:52
Nice one (87) Paul - they have no idea of the real truth!! they just sit in the wee cosy house -
81

Sedov,

13/08/2009 15:45:44
What a stinker (Ghengis) Cardownie has turned out to be. He is using the same bosses scare tactics that he used to fight against when he purported to be on the workers side as an activist for Socialist Worker. Now he is just a burocratic careerist.

The bin men know very well what they are up against without him trying (again) to further his political career out of the publicity.
82

Foo,

13/08/2009 15:47:29
80 rs

Give it a rest.
83

Concerned Citizen,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 15:54:05
Steve Cardownie, You have just shown what a lowlife you really are when you threaten ordinary working folk in this way. Do you really value the staff who work for you ? Remember that the people of Edinburgh do have the ultimate power to threaten your way of life , simply by not voting for you or any of your fellow councillors in the future. Also remember what you do in office you do in the name of the People of Edinburgh and for the People of Edinburgh.
84

Southside,

13/08/2009 16:01:19
FF 56. Incase some folk misunerstand you.

What Steve Cardownie is saying is:

The council will bring in private contractors to do the work, the council do not have the money to pay the binmen what they want.

Binmen, you can argue and shout from the hills, you can write to newspapers and go on strike. The council have to make savings. They are offering to safeguard your jobs in the meantime if you accept their proposal.

If you don't accept their proposal the work will have to go out to private contractors.

Private contractors will get the work done for £6 to £7 per hour, this is a nobrainer to me.

Binmen loose their jobs and go and sign on. Lady at desk at jobcentre says to you, theres a company advertising for binmen, take the job or loose your benefits.

The council will not back down because you don't have the public backing you.
85

Southside,

13/08/2009 16:02:46
91. I think he is doing it for the citizens. The council have to cut costs and they have to start somewhere.

86

,

13/08/2009 16:08:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
87

WHS,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 16:09:13
92 = the were told that they were going to loose 6.5k off the top of there wage - thats what its all about!!
88

FF,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 16:22:48
#96. They weren't told that. They were told basic pay will go up by £2K and their attendance bonus would be replaced by a flexibility bonus so the overall pay remains about the same. The deal isn't as good as it is now, but it's much better than anything else that's going.
89

the plum,

13/08/2009 16:23:06
foo

i am not a refuse collector...i am just shocked at the amount of self satisfied and pompous creatures who treat the refuse collectors as if they were there rubbish they are underpaid to pick up. sweeping statements to the effect that these people all failed school and so the somehow deserve to have an underpaid job, be looked down on by society and treated like scum...not all people are academicaly gifted or have wit or have the time to sit around everyday leisurly contributing condescending and patronising post (like your self)...you don't have got top marks at school to be a valued memeber of the community...though by a lot of the comments apparently in edinburgh you do...a refuse collectotr may or may not have got great marks at school...it really doesn't matter so long as they are nice people who do the best they can and love and look after their family and friends.

i think they deserve a decent pay...and those who disagree fair enough that is their right...but those who talk tripe...like bling ding and make them out to all be lazy unitelligent dossers...well like they said plum by name....

in bling ding's case...what a slimey, yellowey vile puddle of bile...

foo...bu99er of
90

Southside,

13/08/2009 16:26:16
WHS, If they don't go back to work they will loose all their wages.

THE COUNCIL NEEDS TO CUT COSTS.

What Cardownie is saying is: if they don't go back to work soon they are more than likely going to loose their job.

He is trying to help them believe it or not. He is trying to tell them, thats the deal.

If the council have not looked at bringing in private contractors and have some rough costs from them then they are fools.

The only way the binmen can win against the council is by public backing. They don't have the public backing. They are infact getting the publics back up.
91

the plum,

13/08/2009 16:26:58
not all the public...
92

Southside,

13/08/2009 16:33:47
100

They sure don't have the public backing. The recent economy has dictated that thousands have lost their jobs. The job centres are full of folk looking for work and are willing to relocate their families to get work.

I think what the council have offered in pay is decent enough and so would a lot of folk living on £60 or £70 a week.

It difficult times for most folk just now and thats the folk in employment.
93

Sedov,

13/08/2009 16:38:09
#99 I am sure that if you asked the good people of Edinburgh is they minded losing £3000 per year from their income they would not be too pleased -the bin men's cause is a good one and right is on their side.

PS The word is lose - meaning a cut in this example.
The word loose as you have used in your post is something that is slack or not tight or has escaped

such as: there's a moose loose aboot the hoose.
94

Sedov,

13/08/2009 16:40:15
#102 - the word is IF and not IS
95

Captain Jacks Back,

13/08/2009 16:40:37
Dear all

There is no pint debating whether the bin men deserve a higher wage, low wage or the same wage. The refuse collection service is being lined up for privitisation. There is no doubt about it. The current management within Services for Communities wants to outsource the service and everything is going according to plan.

Was Mr Cardownie not pleading the case against Edinburgh Leisure being formed just before it was. He is playing a political game of deceipt as usual. The privitisation is a definite go ahead the commments against and the please against are pure show.
96

Concerned Citizen,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 16:42:18
#93 - why not start at the top ? Put a ceiling on all council posts ,of say £75,000 , effect from today. So no one can earn more than that. Every post earning more than say £30,000 take a 15% pay cut effective from today.
Then simply half the number of managers then give the responsibilties of the one who are laid off to managers who are left without an increase in pay. Give managers £2,500 extra only if they go on flexible shift work. This would make the city more efficient as there would always be a senior manager on duty 365/24/7 in all department.

Saving made would allow the valued refuse collector's equal pay claim to be paid in full and it would also reduce the council tax by many millions.

Stop penalising low paid members of staff for the mismanagement
97

Junglebhoy,

Livingston 13/08/2009 16:44:07
#101 Actually, the vast amount of people I have spoken to, in Edin, have given the workers (not just binmen) their full support. Or maybe you dont get out very often. Go and speak to some council employees, and get the real story. They get suspended for giving views, trying to tell you the truth.
98

Southside,

13/08/2009 16:48:21
Seedov, thanks for the prompt.

I am only stating the clear facts. You can argue points until your blue in the face. You don't have to tell me that folk don't like to lose £3k a year.

The facts remain the same. If the council don't chop their wages or renumerate their package, then they will have to put it out to tender.

They want to keep it inhouse and thats why they have adjusted wages. To keep the cost comparative to what the private sector would probably charge.

From where I'm standing and looking at the facts, the binmen only have two choices to make just now. Take it or leave it. This choice will be taken from them soon.

I'm not trying to wynd folk up here, I'm just pointing out the obvious.
99

Southside,

13/08/2009 16:54:15
105,
I know of a lot of folk like tradesmen who have lost 10 and 15k a year. You probably don't know about it because they never went on strike and they never marched up and down the streets. They new there was a recesion and thats the deal take it or leave it.

Why not start at the top? How do you know its not already been done?

I don't work for the council and I don't make up the rules. I do work in management and I do know that things can only be discussed so much before drastic measures are taken.

100

Foo,

13/08/2009 16:55:14
98 Plum

Mate, you were doing so well, up until the last two sentences.

101

Junglebhoy,

Livingston 13/08/2009 17:03:18
#105,
I know of a lot of folk like tradesmen who have lost 10 and 15k a year. You probably don't know about it because they never went on strike and they never marched up and down the streets. They new there was a recesion and thats the deal take it or leave it.

Their jobs were their choice, I bet pro rata, their profits would be more than your regular binman.

Tell you what, lets take £3k from everybody's paypacket, and then see exactly who will be marching down the streets.

I have sympathy for your tradesmen friends btw.
102

Bonus for doing hee haw,

ED 13/08/2009 17:05:12
Hey Paul the binman

It has not escaped my notice that you have dodged the questions i asked of you couple of nights back

First, next week will you be taking industrial action short of strike action?
Second do you hereby undertake in the evnt of the strike to declare yourself as being so and not therefore not claim sick pay?
103

Southside,

13/08/2009 17:07:50
110, You said it. Their jobs were their choice.
104

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 13/08/2009 17:15:54
#98 plum, they are over paid for the menial job they do, at the end of the day they 'use' the health and safety' issues to make their jobs easier, ie not touching bins that have lids open a wee bit overloaded! just incase there is a needle sticking out. ermmmmmm no lets look at this fact closely. handles on wheely bin, lid open, bin on wheels, solution, hold onto handles with 2 hands tilt gently and pull towards machine that does the hard work, machine (lorry for the uneducated) then lifts the wheely bin securely and empties contents into vast area and then crushes said rubbish, when bin comes back down grab both handles and take said wheely bin to whence in came from (now thats the real hard part!) can someone point out where the problem is? just because the lid is open but not to the point that you cant hold onto it safely? yet the bin people (pc correctness there! notice) seem to think that it will harm them if they do try and touch it. not thats taking things beyond a joke. facts, look at all the posts since this story broke, i'll wager that the majority of people are against the bin people. for goodness sake look at the situation, you are more than signing away your job, dont give the council the weapon they need to bring in privatisation which is what you are succeeding in doing big style, just do the work you are paid for without complaint, do it properly and work a full shift (3 shift pattern or not) and then you will win over the vast majority of the populace. left wing lunacy has more than had its day,scargill etc! no way will you win and i honestly believe you know that but you are clinging to some idea that you are bigger than the city!
105

archie12,

13/08/2009 17:25:35
I'd be fascinated to know just what many of the verbose posters do for a living and just how they can condemn others so strongly for "menial" shift jobs with Health and Safety constraints. Some of the insults and remarks are disgraceful.
106

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 17:39:27
It's amazing how swiftly a discretely deposited binbag is moved when it has been left in the entranceway to the City Chambers. I recommend it to all my fellow citizens.
107

Junglebhoy,

Livingston 13/08/2009 17:58:34
#113 The problem could be,To move two bins the binman would need four hands, ever heard of an extremely windy day? When you have had your nose broken by one of these bins, etc. Dont talk about H&S issues, something you obviously know nothig about. Do a risk assessment and you should come up with more than one explanation. Here, I will help you, weight of the bin (people do put bricks etc in them), weather, you guess, condition of bin, need I go on.
108

Junglebhoy,

Livingston 13/08/2009 17:59:31
#115 Lets all do just exactly that. See if the private sector respond.
109

paul the binman,

13/08/2009 18:23:20
Mr French actualy has a ban on him being anywhere near his place of work,the fact that he has been suspended means he is unable to approach or even take an active part in any strike or industrial action for fear of instant dismisal,once more,democracy in action.#113,Lets see,taco in switch on, engage gear disengage brain and point automatic bus at road,taking care to use the middle of 2 lanes and also ignore all speed limits and governers on vehicle,does that some up your day then ?
110

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 13/08/2009 18:23:21
#116 what planet do you come from, ok lets have the scenario of bricks in a bin, ermmmmmmm and its windy and raining for good measure or snowning even! weight=heavy, heavy =not prone to being swept away with high winds, law of physics (?spelling?) well the bin sat quite happily at the fence/hedge all night and morning till it was emptied. then take your weight alone theory, ermm again, what part of bin on wheels dont you understand? i dont know if you are old enough to remember the days when the bin people actually came into your garden, went round the back of your house, lifted a galvanised bucket that was full to the brim with ash from the fire and household rubbish, took it to the side loading small lorry and emptied it, when the lorry was gettin full one of them went inside to try to create more space to get more in. then to answer your other point, broken nose? please x[lain how someone can be so stupid enough to get their nose broken by pulling a bin by the designated handles, surely they sould be looking where they are going rather than sticking their noses into bins! or is that part of their job? rake through bins and see whats in them? if they are pulling the bin then if the lid does blow then at the worst it would hit their back or the back of their arms, and considering its very very light then i imagine it wil do no damage. condition of the bin, hmmm ok lets say that its a defective bin, now this will be part of the new contract i feel, report it if the owner doesnt. simple eh? now please go on
111

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 13/08/2009 18:30:40
118 tacho not used any more, not automatic theres a thing called a spliter box some coaches have 26 gears 4 separate braking systems a microphone to tell your passengers history etc, knowing where you are going and working out time scale to make it as comfortable as possible for said passengers at all times, keeping within the law in all countries you visit, being aware of laws etc, lifting heavy cases out and in, cleaning coaches, cleaning windows toilet etc, being clean,pleasant and mannerable every day no matter how you are feeling, understanding road condition (ie skiing trips to the french alps or dolomites in italy, fitting heavy heavy chains when needed or ordered) speed limiter fitted meaning maximum speed of 100 kph ( thats 62.5 mph) oh in germany its 90 kph unless you have a tempo regulation which is extra form of road insurance. happy now?
112

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 13/08/2009 18:33:32
oops sorry tacho not used its a swipe card that costs the driver (yes me!) £76 per year plus a medical every 5 years cost £150 to me and wages that are exempt from the national minimun wage structure and are extremely lower that yours. there are of course extras as most will be aware of (tips etc) but you have to work damn hard for that.
113

Junglebhoy,

Livingston 13/08/2009 18:38:50
#119 That assessment would cost you your job. Obviously you can remember galvanised bins. Now lets try your origional theory, you pull a bin by two handles, BEHIND you? Not forgetting to gently tilt towards you, first. Try it you plonker, and come back to me. Taking time to turn around, thats the only way to achieve this, well that adds time to a collection, doesnt it? Go watch refuse collection workers anywhere in this country, how many pull a full bin behind them? None I think.
114

Concerned Citizen,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 18:41:25
I know there is resession is here. I know saving must be made .

This deal is unjust and will penalise those who are already low paid. The deal is bad. Any deal that 'protects' to current pay levels does not serve the employee well. It does mean that employee will lose out in medium to long term whatever lies the management tells you. Its equivalent to a pay freeze for the term of the 'protection'

This deal is unjust as the council should have budgeted as many other councils have to be able to pay this 'Equal Pay' in full.

Edinburgh's Council has fudged the issue by linking a so called 'flexible working' issue.

It is really unfair for people to say to the refuse collection staff 'take it or leave it' after all they have all serve this city well and it is what feeds them and their families. It is only right that they defend their wages and conditions. We should ALL be supporting them.
115

Junglebhoy,

Livingston 13/08/2009 18:44:37
#121 And I bet you do not declare your tips to the taxman either?
I have an LGV license, I too have to pay for my medical every 5 years, pay for my own Digi tachograph card, so what.
Lifting heavy cases? Have you had any manual handling training? Could be a problem if you hurt yourself. Oh yes, it is only binmen who havent got a clue. Go drive to Switzerland, and stay there.
116

taxiedin,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 18:45:06
hope Mr cardownie and his team are all getting pay cuts the same level as the binmen.
117

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 13/08/2009 18:46:39
122 plonker? now theres a great example of debate. i will not dive to your level of conversation, personal attacks are not required or needed or liked.
118

Concerned Citizen,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 18:47:00
In fact , try implementing the plan I mentioned in previous posts regarding management pay and conditions.

Lets see how rigourously they would defend their pay and conditions.
119

paul the binman,

13/08/2009 18:48:07
Oh my god we underestimated you,your a rocket engineer by comparison,here was me thinking your Blackey off on the buses...and here is some basic maths for you,time taken for bin to complete a cycle on vehicle =45 seconds.Bins on average route =1500.Time taken to complete route as per councils instructions as being carried out by crews now =67500 seconds,or 1125 minutes,well I think you get the picture,prior to this dispute the men would "top hat" bins,ie remove the single bags and fill only one bin so cutting down time,they would also move 2 bins at atime and run across bisy roads,all against council instructions,I agree,foolish in its self,but it did mean the council were able to cut back on the number of vehicles and crews required,so,how about some one from the council rubbish these claims then......oh and before I forget,add in driver and crews break and trips to and from the tip,
120

Nosser1952,

edinburgh 13/08/2009 18:51:10
unless you work there,you will see that everything is being done to make the guys go on strike ,privatising has been the plan from the outset,if the private companies do as good a job as the temps are doing just now were in big trouble.As for cardownie,s Im alright jack attitude he should remember he,s been on more sides than the Italians
121

paul the binman,

still in his Al Qaeda bunker near SNP headoffice 13/08/2009 18:54:08
Oh and before anyone tells me ther are 2 crew,yes but that still means it takes longer than the hours they are employed for
122

philip barrs is a bandit,

edinburgh 13/08/2009 19:01:39
Steve Cardownie + Labour + Snp =Right wing !Is this the same Cardownie who claimed expenses for flights to Russia where he got married the same year he tried to claim for ripped trousers.Is this the same Steve cardownie claimed £7000 in expenses in 2006,i know who i thinks worth there money and it isn't you cardowie traitor!
123

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

13/08/2009 19:01:56
I don’t believe that I have ever met Mr Cardownie and know little of his past history.

I am aware however that he was previously a senior member of the local labourites and has since jumped ship to join the SNP.

This probably explains the vitriol directed towards him from the few remaining labourites in the city who, just like their national counterparts, have seen their power base disappear like snow off a dyke.

As far as the issue of bringing in private contractors to carry out local authority services is concerned, although I am in principle opposed to this concept, I would refer those Cardownie detractors to the recent proclamation from Steven Purcell, leader of the labourite Glasgow City Council, who threatened to do exactly that during a recent dispute with his council employees.
124

Junglebhoy,

Livingston 13/08/2009 19:09:42
122 plonker? now theres a great example of debate. i will not dive to your level of conversation, personal attacks are not required or needed or liked.

#113,119 Try reading your own posts. You obviously seem to think that a binman needs to have instructions given to him, very precisely, and slooowwwlllyyyy. My apologies if you think plonker was personal, I thought your name was Rodney?
125

philip barrs is a bandit,

edinburgh 13/08/2009 19:29:37
Cardownie would make Himmler look like a Socialist!Lower than a Snakes belly that one!
126

MARTYR,

13/08/2009 19:59:08
One of the Edinburgh 'is the best city in Britain' awards is based on the cleanliness throughout the City. And the citizens of Edinburgh should take pride in our cleansing staff who contribute to this award.

I also think it’s unfair to demean cleansing staff for carrying out an essential job that improves the visual amenity of the City.
127

valleyjim,

glesci 13/08/2009 19:59:36
SAVE PAUL THE BINMAN. See me? See ma man? See us? We love Paul The Binman (PTB) so wae dae. Bit weer weegies so wi ur.
128

valleyjim,

13/08/2009 20:07:59
Re-instate "Paul The Binman" or youse ur "gettin it".
129

TDB333,

saughton 13/08/2009 20:16:34
#56 scooped
the PEOPLE you saw in the high street today were either the private contractors or the poeple employed
by r.b.s. to clean just that strech of road
130

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 13/08/2009 20:17:06
tips??? considering that the tax man takes x amount off me each year, surmising what i make in tips. thats clever eh?
its blakie by the way
my posts do not personalise, but if the cap fits?
now theres rocket science time taken etc and allowed time, and you are trying to tell everyone that you actually do that? now think carefull considering that 'we' the public of edinburgh watch and see you when you can be bothered to appear!
if you read my posts you will see that all i am saying is you have had a free ride for a very long time and now thats over so you are trying everything you can to sidestep it. blatantly obvious that you will never win and any support you may have had has dwindled and all you are doing is sealing your demise by your own actions.
131

TDB333,

saughton 13/08/2009 20:19:30
s,cuse the spling on the beeeeer!!!!!!yeee haaa
132

Foo,

13/08/2009 20:33:58
141

lulz @ comparing a truck to an F1 car.

Like comparing a microlight to a Euro-fighter typhoon.
133

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 13/08/2009 20:44:35
#143 thank you foo for making me smile and laugh n1
134

Taken For Granted Council Tax Payer,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 22:04:22
I fear that once again the people that are most neglected in this situation are the people that PAY for everything involved in the dispute: Wages, damaged vehicles, probably more expensive stand in private firms, security cover, lawyers, you name it.

We also endure third world refuse services with rubbish strewn in the streets ,added health problems,rats, seagulls, disgraceful eyesores for not only we residents but tens of thousands of tourists and visitors, damaging the credibility of not only Edinburgh and it's rulers, but the whole of Scotland.

I understand that the bin men are free to exercise their rights as an employee in that if they no longer like the job they are doing they can leave.

They are free to join the hundreds of thousands of unemployed people in Scotland. Many of the existing unemployed would love a fairly secure Council job with perks and pensions.

Fair days work for a fair days pay is a great adage.

So is working in a services oriented job where the customers/ council tax payers are paying for a service they are not receiving, while the employees "work (?!) to rule" and do not deliver the service being paid for.

The rules should be amended to be simpler:

1. Turn up for work.
2. DO job.
3. Get paid for your time and efforts.
4. Repeat Steps 1 - 3

Let's get Edinburgh bin men into the 21st Century.

Let's get this dispute sorted out.

Perhaps if council tax payers stopped paying until normal service was restored, thereby depriving the council of the ability to pay ANY council worker, including the associated employees - bin men, therefore exposing the people causing this issue to go without the wages they are paid for not providing a satisfactory service, and then perhaps good sense will prevail.

The Council Tax PAYER is sick and fed up of being a pawn in this game. Take action.

Give the bin men an option. DO your job or leave.
135

paul the binman,

moved along the road to tip bins over 13/08/2009 22:09:03
#132,of course your so right,this has nothing to do with wages being slashed and every thing to do with it being anti SNP.
How about the fact that its English companys being used,or is that the Liberal part of the council.
Get your head out of the sand,not every thing in the world has a nationistic bent to it.

Even a Labour council would be getting as much grief,but then again they had a fairer solution.Dont believe me,then go and check out the councils web site and also the minutes and budget from the last council in office.
136

Taken For Granted Council Tax Payer,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 22:14:40
#148 That is not leaning towards being a racist comment is it?

137

is it me?,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 22:14:52
Here's a plan:
I'm really,REALLY sick of this garbage on these columns from illiterate binmen and their semi-literate supporters.
Can regular posters please ignore any future articles on the bins dispute and let them get on with it?
Please try. It'll be like the Planet of the Apes and they'll wipe each other out.
Then we can get back to having a civilised laugh.
138

paul the binman,

13/08/2009 22:17:52
#174
1,the men turned up and did the job better than the council planned it.
2 They did the job so well and so fast the council were able to cut crews and numbers.
3 This then meant the council having to pay for overtime to cover the shortage in manpower.
This then led to this new proposal that we do the same job,and in some cases more work,for less money
I agree,lets get it sorted,but not at the price this council are trying to force on us.
Mind you I like the way you think people should be treated,take the offer or your sacked,nice to see the Thatcher spirit still alive and well,"Im all right jack"
139

Taken For Granted Council Tax Payer,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 22:21:46
#151. I am not "all right Jack". I took a decision to work for myself. If I do not work I do not earn any money. The downturn has badly affected me as my customers have cut their spending and I make much less.

Perhaps there is a "Thatcher" spirit in me. Instead of sitting around whinging I "get on my bike" and find additional things to do to make up for the lost earnings.

140

paul the binman,

13/08/2009 22:22:13
AW sorry,is the real world upsetting your fun,sorry we can't give you something to laugh at,its only our livelyhoods at risk,as for planet of the apes,as I remember the illiterates wiped the rest out,mind you I suppose you have all the charms of one of the Orangatangs,muppit.
141

is it me?,

Edinburgh 13/08/2009 22:25:25
153
No comment.
142

Pilrig,

Livingston 13/08/2009 22:32:32
The SNP made a big mistake when they allowed the likes of Cardownie into their ranks.
143

Pilrig,

Livingston 13/08/2009 22:33:56
Embra loves serfdom
144

tumshie heid,

13/08/2009 23:07:20
The binmen are sealing their own fate.
They have a menial but important job, however anyone could get the gist of the job within hours so they are not indispensable.
In this economic climate they are very foolish to risk losing their jobs for a ludicrous attempt to hold the city to ransom.
Its not the 70's now.
145

WHS,

sunderland 14/08/2009 08:09:55
(114) It is skilled (Driving HVG) not every individual can do the job - it takes skill - ok!!!! - you need your HGV licence !!!
146

Bring Back Poll Tax,

14/08/2009 08:54:04
#67 ".they should be paid fairly in a way that reflects this day and age..."

Indeed - it's just a menial job that could be carried out by a trained ape. It's only worth the minimum wage. Let's not drool on about these mechanicals being custodians of public health - the burger flippers and chicken dunkers who ensure that most schemie dwellers get a hot meal now and again have an equal healthcare role but their job could also be handled by a robot so minimum wage it is until such time as the technology becomes cheaper than their labour.

The Council isn't there to provide premium salaries to folk who were either too thick or idle to pass a few achingly simple exams and gain the qualifications to get a financially rewarding job with career prospects. Thet're there to ensure that the streets are swept and lit, not carry out any fanciful social experiments.

Even if the council has to take a one time hit on mass redundancies to ditch teh whole sanitation department and replace it with a private contractor, getting rid of twerps like these who think that they can hold the city to ransom will be worth it.
147

Junglebhoy,

Livingston 14/08/2009 09:57:35
#159
Indeed - it's just a menial job that could be carried out by a trained ape. It's only worth the minimum wage. Let's not drool on about these mechanicals being custodians of public health - the burger flippers and chicken dunkers who ensure that most schemie dwellers get a hot meal now and again have an equal healthcare role but their job could also be handled by a robot so minimum wage it is until such time as the technology becomes cheaper than their labour.

The Council isn't there to provide premium salaries to folk who were either too thick or idle to pass a few achingly simple exams and gain the qualifications to get a financially rewarding job with career prospects. Thet're there to ensure that the streets are swept and lit, not carry out any fanciful social experiments.

So, according to you, all council workers are idle, and thick?
Well, Bring back poll tax, I may not have any qualifications when I left school, but does that make me thick, or idle? I am not a binman now, but have been in the past. I have also served my country in the forces, driven lorries for 39 years, and if it wasnt for guys like us, you would not have any food on your table. But of course, we must be a trained "Ape".
As for "twerps", I know who is one, and its not me.
148

MARTYR,

14/08/2009 10:40:51
#159 > Refer to #69 – You’ve definitely lost the argument. Did you have a misspent youth, because your imbalanced comments towards cleansing staff reveal a psychological personality disorder.

Please keep the debate hospitable.
149

tumshie heid,

14/08/2009 10:59:40
#159 and you show that you were in the forces don't you?
People in the forces are fed the "serving your country" tripe everyday by officers who don't want you to wake up one day and realise that you are just a number/political pawn.
You are just there to make up numbers and if injured, another gullible fool will be brought in to replace you.
150

Bring Back Poll Tax,

14/08/2009 12:09:26
#161 So what high level skills are required by scaffies that might justify payment above the baseline for utterly unskilled manual labour? What peaks of moral philosophy do these operatives scale on a daily basis that raise them to the level of adulation?

STEP 1 -WHEEL BIN TO LORRY
STEP 2 - PRESS BUTTON
STEP 3 - WHEEL BIN BACK TO WHERE IT CAME FROM
STEP 4 - REPEAT UNTIL NEXT FAG BREAK

the punters that the Council employ can't even manage step 3 so it's high time that they are replaced by a simple contract.

I was astonished when a Council flunky at one of the "consultation" sessions years ago said that there would be no staff savings despite the new lorry/bin/mega-bin system requiring only a fraction of the number of bodies needed to pick up bin bags - anyone not working on the new hardware would be retrained as a litter warden. Where are they? Are they all still stuck in remedial classes trying to pass their exams in "ticking boxes on a wee form" and "wearing a tie"?

151

MARTYR,

14/08/2009 19:31:45
#163 - Left hand LGV driving, hazardous chemical treatments, Road traffic accident maintenance, oil & blood spillage removal, fire debri removals, flood prevention work, contaminated waste removal, the list goes on and on. These activities require extensive skilled training and a competence certificate to carry out the functions.

How many people do you know who have the expertise to walk in to this job and undertake the work straight away?

 

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