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Bendy Wendy's memory problem



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Published Date: 09 May 2008
DOES Scottish Labour leader Wendy really know what she's doing? It's a fair question to ask. Only two years ago she was touting around Edinburgh a pomposity of professors who could tell us how to run our country better. Socialism had little to do with it, planning controls should be simpler while incentives and deregulation was also proffered.
Now our Wendy likes to tell trade unionists and Labour activists how much of a dyed-in-the-wool, red-blooded socialist she is. It must be something in her municipal Paisley water supply that affects the memory.

So to this week's astonishing reve
lation, that Wendy now supports an early referendum on Scots deciding if we want an independent state, rather like Belgium or Albania, when previously she had sided with Gordon Brown in running away from the idea.

What is she up to? Has she thought this through, or is it a panic response to Labour's worst local election results in England and Wales for some 40 years, and continued poor polling in Scotland?

Regular readers of this column will maybe recall that I have for a long time supported the idea of Alex Salmond being challenged to a referendum on the issue of Scottish independence.

Sadly, party leaders in both Scotland and London have shied away from this course of action, displaying all the political courage of mice and revealing an appalling lack of self-belief in their cause.

Instead, Salmond has been able to hang tough and look brave, when in actual fact he too is running away from a potential public soaking, postponing any such vote until he thinks he can win it – and that means not now!

Salmond has made the calculation that Scotland wanted minimal change – kicking out Labour and the Liberal Democrats – rather than the seismic shift of independence, so he wants and needs time to strengthen his following. So far the polls suggest it's working.

Labour's response to defeat was outwardly to do very little; indeed it has been hard to believe it has yet to come to terms with the result – many of its MSPs still betray such arrogance.

I know from my own discussions with party stalwarts that the truth has been different and that key people have been arguing for a change of approach for some time. The Calman Commission to study further powers for Holyrood was the first step, delayed by all the shenanigan's surrounding the financing of Wendy's leadership campaign.

Labour had concluded that to win a referendum it should be in a position of supporting a new improved Parliament rather than the current model, even if it isn't mentioned on the ballot paper. So the Commission was born, bringing the naive and unwitting Nicol Stephen and Annabel Goldie into its elephant trap.

While Wendy's announcement that there should be a referendum may have been tactical, as indeed will be the posturing of a disagreement with Brown – it makes her look stronger and more Scottish – the plan to call Salmond's bluff is now strategic. It has at last been grasped that Salmond must be confronted if his arguments are to be tested and defeated.

The question remains though, how does Wendy bring forward the referendum from a position of opposition? To do it from Westminster might be too heavy-handed.

She must therefore woo the support of Stephen and Goldie, unless she calls Salmond's bluff again and lets the SNP Government draft the question, leaving him nowhere to go but hold the vote sooner rather than later.

An inconvenient truth
If you have ever wondered how your taxes get spent on public health campaigns, here's an example.

This week, claimed an ITV documentary, "one in four of pre-school children is overweight or obese" taken from a Department of Health publication.

When my friend Tony Dowling pointed out to them that the document they were quoting had a typographical error saying age five instead of age 15, the producer simply ignored him.

The falsehood that our nurseries are swarming with obese infants will quickly become the received wisdom. As I write political nannies and bullies throughout Britain are dreaming up ways to spend your money controlling what toddlers eat. It's that easy.

Boris shines through
What an outstanding victory for Boris Johnson in the London mayoral election, with a million first preference votes, and how gracious he was in victory thanking Ken Livingstone for his past work.

There is a distinct lack of colour, personality and charm in today's politics and Boris brightens the vista by delivering all three.

Many people make the mistake of thinking he's a court jester, an entertaining fool, but it's as much a cultivated image as his blond haystack of a hairstyle. He's an acerbic writer and a bright intellect, but fully aware of his own limitations.

Still, I can't wait for his first gaffe. Only then will he find out who his true friends are. And he will need some, rather than the many sycophants who will now be saying he was always their man.





The full article contains 846 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 May 2008 3:03 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Brian Monteith
 
1

Jim Taylor,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 11:07:37
Wendy's problem is no different to that of Labour. They have both forgotten what they're supposed to stand for.

A confused electorate booted Labour out in Scotland. Gordon Brown is overseeing the same process in England.

R.I.P. Labour. Another 40 yeears in the wilderness, the price of your betrayal, would be too soon for your return.
2

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 11:19:38
Ref Boris - how many times must we hear this pathetic argument that we need more "characters" in public life. The man opposed the repeal of section 28, enthusiastically supported the election and re-election of George W Bush, and pushed hard in favour of the Iraq war. He is a right wing nut, and for Londoners to have elected him seems to me a profoundly depressing occurrence.
3

Lesley,

EDINBURGH 09/05/2008 11:21:25
Wendy has made a total fool of herself, and the Labour party.
4

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 11:26:19
#1 While you have a point, Jim, the notion that Labour was "booted out" in Scotland verges on a form of rewriting of history, which is unpleasantly commonplace especially among SNP supporters.

The difference in terms of the vote between the SNP and Labour was less than 0.7%. Labour undoubtedly lost the election, and some have yet to face up to that, but their loss was by an extremely small margin, and the mandate held by their successors is less than any previous Scottish government has held.

Labour introduced the minimum wage, working tax credits and the new deal, and has lifted more than half of the families living in poverty out of poverty. Wealth has been redistributed and the terrible social deprivation inflicted by the Thatcher years has now been overturned. These are important, genuine achievements by Labour, and the rewriting of history today is neither fair nor reasonable.
5

Vivas,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 11:28:12
Clever article ... outwardly attacking Wendy, when in fact it's a means to bed in a lie that unionists would very much like to take hold "out there". And which is contained in this line.

"Salmond has been able to hang tough and look brave, when in actual fact he too is running away from a potential public soaking, *postponing* any such vote until he thinks he can win it – and that means not now!"

Yes, 2010 is the date when Salmond thinks he can win it. The manifesto was smart enough to select that time in advance as the most favourable time to do do.

BUT HE HAS *POSTPONED* NOTHING.
I repeat...
HE HAS *POSTPONED* NOTHING.

2010 IT IS. AS STATED ALL ALONG.
*THERE IS NO POSTPONMENT*
6

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 11:35:54
#5 You're right, it's a clumsy choice of word, and a deliberate political ploy. What Salmond actually did was decide to delay it until he could pick enough fights with Westminster. He made this decision some time ago, indeed. But it was a deliberate ploy, and that is what the writer is getting at.
7

,

09/05/2008 11:37:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 09/05/2008 11:52:55
"Salmond has been able to hang tough and look brave, when in actual fact he too is running away from a potential public soaking, postponing any such vote until he thinks he can win it."

What nonsense! Ross Finney made the point on Newsnight Scotland that this issue is too important to just quickly discuss it and go straight to the vote. Labour do not trust the Scottish people to deliver the vote that Labour want, so they have decided the best way forward is to lessen the amount of time for a debate. This matter should be discussed fully and the media should be looking more at what the pros and cons of independence might in fact be. To rush to a referendum would be an abnegation of responsibility.
9

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 11:56:16
#8 Of course a broad discussion should be had; but this is not the reason for the SNP's 2010 plan. Any national campaign period on this issue does not need to take more than a year to 18 months - you can fully explore the pros and cons in that time if you want to. The 2010 date is about picking a time when the SNP think they can win it; nothing more, nothing less.
10

Season Ticket Holder,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 12:04:38
#6 Duncan in Edinburgh
What is also a "clumsy" choice of phrase, and a deliberate political ploy, (trotted out by Labour and repeated unthinkingly by journalists and by yourself) is to describe Alex Salmond's dealings with Westminster as "picking fights." The most refreshing change about the current Scottish Government is that they are free to represent only the people of Scotland, and are not tied to party allegiances in Westminster. This makes their position perfectly clear at all times - they deal with Westminster to represent the Scottish people, no-one else. To describe this as picking fights is to suggest that they should instead just accept what Westminster says, fail to argue the case for Scotland and fail in their duty as our elected representatives.

The Scottish people are slowly realising that the SNP are the only party in Scotland not driven by a UK wide agenda, and are therefore the natural leaders of a government which is tasked solely with looking after our interests. Why shouldn't Alex Salmond be given time to show that this type of governance is possible ?
11

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 12:10:08
#10 There is an explicit and carefully calculated policy within the SNP to pick fights with Westminster. It is a very effective way to achieve their stated aims, so why wouldn't they do it?
12

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 09/05/2008 12:17:36
#9, Duncan

What I find bizarre is that the Calman Commission have barely placed bums on seats and yet Wendy is crying out for a decision. So the conclusion I am forced to come to is that Wendy already knows what the policy should be. Or has she stupidly jumped the gun? Are we to go to the public and say vote for independence or something else but we're not quite sure what that something is, we'll tell you later? There has to be a proper debate and this is nothing more than posturing from a leader who has done absolutely nothing for her party since she took power.

Ross Finney, the Liberal Democrat spokesman, argued that the debate is of such importance that it merits full discussion. Annabelle Goldie no doubt thinks the same. The Lib Dems and the Tories thought they were in a pan-Unionist coalition with Labour until Wendy peeled off on her own to try and force the issue without thinking it through. Now any pollsters asking questions about support for indpendence can dispence with the three question option and simply ask yes or no? And we know who that favours. This is not even a good strategy.
13

Arfur,

09/05/2008 12:21:02
Has the Scotsman got a new editor or something?
14

Jade the Obscure,

09/05/2008 12:28:22
Er, no, this is the belly of Brian Monteith rumbling.
15

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 12:31:01
#12 Absolutely right. The time for this braveness was before they did the Calman thing - now it just looks like they have no strategy at all. From my point of view, right strategy, disastrously wrong time.
16

blackley,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 12:39:11
I think the SNP would have a very good chance of winning contrary to the opinion of the above. Given the pathetic non-engagement of most people in politics and elections even the Nazis could probably get in!
17

acanthus,

09/05/2008 12:44:54
Would be interesting if you could point to the instances where Salmond has picked a fight that was not in the interest of Scotland?

Are you talking about trying to secure more oil revenue?

Perhaps putting pressure on the government to allow a Scottish Minister to sit on the EU fisheries commisions negotiations you consider picking a fight?

Perhaps you mean by picking a fight trying to get back 40 million in health care benefits that Westminster is witholding?

I hope he picks as many fights as he can if this will be the outcome or perhaps yu think he should just cower like McConnell?
18

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 09/05/2008 12:46:05
2 - perhaps that is why he was elected . Personally I am sick of Blairite " celebrity politicians " and long for a grey man who will do a good job without the soundbites and trashing the office of PM .
19

familymanwith2jobsandawifeworkingfulltime,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 12:50:59
More nonsense regarding this stupid Scottish Parliament which is costing us a fortune.
20

Queen D,

Glasgow 09/05/2008 12:57:15
We have waited to have a debate on independence for 300 years, we can wait another two and a half!
Manifesto marked out the SNP timetable.
It is their ball! Something the other parties should remember.

The SNP stategy being to prove it can govern first seems more than sensible to me! It also smacks of a certain humility lacking in the previous incumbents.

This particular Labour debacle is highly amusing , in fact I have'nt laughed so much in years !
I noted for the first time at FMQs that there was little unruly noise from the Labour benches. Most pleasant! Was Lord Foulkes NOT in the chamber?

Labour appear to be friendless now at Holyrood.
Neither the Tories nor the Damp Libs have anything nice to say about them.

It is even better to note that Labour support a yes/no referendum as opposed to multiple confusion ! Excellent! That is after all the preferred SNP question.

So let it be written , so let it be done ! In 2010 of course!
21

Season Ticket Holder,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 12:59:43
#16 AM2
Your quote demonstrates the hollowness of your own argument. Alex says he hasn't "shirked from a fight with Westminster over Scotland's interests." He doesn't say he's PICKING fights just to be a troublemaker - that's what your're telling us. He's saying that he will fight if it will better the Scottish people to do so. I'm glad we at last have a First Minister who is able to stand up to Westminster and not allow them to railroad through legislation contrary to the will of the Scottish Electorate. That's what our Scottish Government is elected to do. You should be behind them, not twisting their words to suit your narrow opinion.

22

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 13:03:37
#11 > There is an explicit and carefully calculated policy within the SNP to pick fights with Westminster.<

"Explicit", "carefully calculated" and "within" are strong and precise terms. Do you have evidence for your assertion, or is it just your opinion?
23

Season Ticket Holder,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 13:04:33
# 19, AM2
you said "Multi-option opinion polls are consistently showing support for devolution running at around three times that of independence."

Go on then - back that statement up please, without resorting to missing out the most recent polls or ones that don't show what you're telling us. Remember your use of the word "consistently".
24

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 13:14:48
#24 Words and deeds, dear heart. What do you think the LIT is about? A policy so unachievable it has to be brought in alongside a £400m tax cut to make it palatable to the electorate. The UK government has no choice, when presented with a policy outwith the responsibility of the Scottish Parliament, other than to block it.

What about the sheep farming issue? The SNP banging on and on about how the UK government should be responsible for payments when the UK government did absolutely everything by the book, and the book says that the Scottish Government is responsible.

Of course they are picking fights. There are many similar examples, and there are too many dunderheads lapping them up and believing Salmond's hogwash that independence will cure these non-existent ills.
25

Merouane,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 13:20:47
#28. Kind of begs the question as to why Labour support a single question referendum.
26

Merouane,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 13:24:17
#27. That may be the way you look at it. But I think most people see the two as either being the same thing or having a large overlap.

You also seem to think that the 'break up Britian' thing is just a game. The very reason they want to 'break up Britan' is because they think it would be in Scotland's interests.
27

Merouane,

09/05/2008 13:29:34
#4. "...verges on a form of rewriting of history, which is unpleasantly commonplace especially among SNP supporters."

I find Labour supporters have an unpleasant habit of trying to smear SNP supporters in order to win support for their own party.
28

Merouane,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 13:33:32
#31. It's still pretty open to interpretation as to whether those things can be classed as picking fights. In each case Westminster has the choice not to let matters descend into what ends up being described as a fight. It's up to the electorate to decide whether the SNP are in the right and Westminster not playing ball... or whether the SNP is at fault.

I think the polls would suggest that Salmond is being given the benefit of the doubt by the electorate, but of course some people will see it differently.
29

John PM,

09/05/2008 13:36:02
I think the Scottish people were sick of puppets controlled by London which is exactly what they got with Jack McConnell.

The unionists have said from the beginning that the SNP's only interest in devolution was to wreck it however that's not actually true.

Devolution was designed to deflect the Scottish people from full home rule. The SNP eventually supported devolution as a stepping stone towards independence but the fact is that without the SNP there would have never been any devolution bill in the 70's or any subsequent parliament. Let's not forget that Labour swindled us out of it for twenty years after a clear vote in favour and allowed Scotland to face Thatcherism unprotected.

The idea that 'Westminster knows best' is intrinsically insulting. So Labour have done a few decent acts, but they haven't done much for all those years in power. The minimum wage is still at an embarassingly low rate. Their latest effort in doubing the tax rate for the lowest earners showed that they couldn't care less about the working poor.

Duncan in Edinburgh claims "Labour has lifted more than half of the families living in poverty out of poverty." Oh really? Where's your evidence?

In fact during Labour's years ibn offuce the rich have got much richer while the gap between rich and poor has grown even larger. They have also supported attacks on civil liberties, ie ID cards and detention without trial. They have also used expensive PFI schemes and starved councils of investment unless they back the wholesale privatisation of housing stock.

Wendy can pretend to be a socialist but if she thinks we're thick enough to believe it while empty coat embraces Thatcher she's far wrong.
30

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 13:41:43
#35 My evidence is on www.poverty.org.uk. And I am sick of having this same discussion with people who wilfully misrepresent terms.

I completely agree that the gap between rich and poor has widened, as it has in every developed country in the world over the same period. I never claimed otherwise. What I claimed was that Labour has halved the number of families living in poverty, and that is a basic fact.

Yes, Labour has many faults; but their track record on the minimum wage, working family tax credits and poverty is admirable, and I am sick of these achievements being written out of history by people with no capacity for fairness.
31

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 13:42:33
#36 In my haste and irritation I mistyped: the number of families *with children* living in poverty is what I should have said.
32

Season Ticket Holder,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 13:42:35
#31 AM2
Ah, so you agree that Salmond doesn't say he wants to pick fights....yet in your earlier post you used a quote to try and prove he did want to pick fights.

Or are you doing a Wendy here and changing your mind?
Picking fights and fighting for Scotland's interests are 2 very different things, and your (or Duncan's) choice of the phrase "picking fights" is trying to paint a picture of troublemaking for the sake of it.
33

Sanny,

09/05/2008 13:44:11
9 Duncan in Edinburgh

Repeating your point ad nauseam does not give it any credibility. The FACTS are extremely simple. It has long been the declared policy of the SNP to demonstrate to the Electorate their competence in government BEFORE asking the people to make a decision on Independence. This is a right and proper approach, how else are the Electorate to see the lie that would be promulgated by the Unionist Party’s that the SNP had NO EXPERIENCE of government, a valid concern.

Is it not that, by being in (albeit a minority) Government and demonstrating a competence beyond that seen from Lid/Lab coalitions or the Cabal in Westminster, they are allaying the fear of the unknown. This is resulting in a constant haemorrhaging of membership from Labour whilst SNP membership grows apace. As a result Wendy has panicked and wants to do something – anything – to try and stop the rot.

Wendy may turn, Brown may turn, the rest of the unionist may howl, but the SNP are continuing to walk down the road they had planned and set before the Electorate, they will not be deflected from their purpose.

Now Duncan Which part of the SNP Policy on the timing of a referendum is it that you do not understand?
34

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 13:49:21
#26, I'd call those honest disagreements about policy, not "picking fights". Given that the Scottish government and the Westminster government are formed by opposing parties, it's hardly surprising that they should disagree.
35

Merouane,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 13:53:45
#40. Yes, it may only be SNP supporters that see it like that, but the number of SNP supporters appears to be rising!

The way I look at it, is not that the UK government needs to roll over and let the Scottish government walk all over them, it's that the UK government should be trying to assist the Scottish government not hinder it. Sure, Salmond may be laying traps for Labour in Westminster, but they are all to eager to fall into them. Because they can't bring themselves to aid a Scottish government that's not a Labour government.

That's why I think devolution is doomed to failure and why I think we need independence.
36

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 13:57:33
#44, you astonish me. An SNP government tries to acquire more powers for Scotland? Whoever would have believed it! And all those people doubtless voting for it because they thought it wanted to strengthen the Union!

37

Dr Egg,

First Man On A Tram 09/05/2008 14:01:02
#21 I recently confronted someone with the idea that the Scots had voted in another stratum of Politicians with the Scottish Parliament only to be met with, "Well, the Scottish Office would go if we were independent." So what would we do for Civil Servants then? It's all carp, it's all expensive and they don't actually serve us, they just do what they want anyway.
38

Ecto,

London 09/05/2008 14:04:09
As a Scot in London Boris was hobson's choice for many of us. Red Ken had been lining the pockets of his croanies and no one with a serious mind would vote for the Lib Dems. Not only do we have council tax in London but a surcharge for the mayor on top, this has risen year after year since old Kenny was appointed. At least the people have spoken and removed Ken sick of his waste and squandering.
39

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 14:04:54
#39 Why would the people need to be convinced of the SNP's capability to run a government before they can be asked whether they want to separate Scotland from the rest of the UK?

Are you seriously implying that an independent Scotland would mean a Scotland permanently governed by the SNP? Codswallop. The SNP is a single-issue pressure group dressed as a political party, and it would fragment immediately should separation from the UK be achieved.

The suggestion that the SNP need to prove their governance credentials before a referendum is such convoluted nonsense it doesn't even bear the mildest scrutiny. Post independence, should such a scenario occur, the SNP will have no reason to exist, let alone govern.
40

Ecto,

London 09/05/2008 14:07:07
Wendy has also gone mad in my opinion, she was on Channel 4 news the other night and performed woefully, she could not answer any the questions put to her in a coherent fashion, Wee Eck outshines her comletely, there is no credible opposition to the SNP in Scotland. Wendy should go and go now.
41

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 14:09:05
#49, > The SNP is a single-issue pressure group dressed as a political party, and it would fragment immediately should separation from the UK be achieved.

I hope so. I think it's good, however, for people to see that it's possible for Scotland to be governed in the interests of the Scottish people, rather than the interests of the London-centric UK parties, without the world coming to an end!
42

Sanny,

Upwey 09/05/2008 14:17:28
16 AM2:
Once again your selective memory is working well! I totally agree that Alex Salmond is prepared to stand for Scotland’s interests, unlike the Labour toady’s that proceeded him as Scotland’s FM’s. That, believe it or not, is his job and a dam good fist he is making of it. As I recall both Blair and Brown insulted Scotland by not having the common courtesy to congratulate the FM on his election and you say the FM is picking fights?
Your last sentence “I think that just about says it all.” Perhaps the listeners knew only too well the FM’ good manners would not be reciprocated!

19 AM2
The only purpose of a multi option is to confuse the issue and or play on the fears of the unknown. Why not a simple yes no option on independence? Increase – or decrease - of powers do not require a referendum, they are allowed for in the Scotland act therefore their inclusion is simply a distraction.

27 AM2

Haven’t you worked it out yet The interests od Scotland and those of the SNP are one and the same.

Your third statement is yet another of you stock-in-trade obfuscations. I know from previous exchanges that you are familiar with Niall Aslen debunking of the GERS and the Myth of Scotland being supported by the English taxpayer.

Tell me of one other country that allows its neighbour to remove its resources without payment? Unless of course you go back to the Glory days of Empire. Actually I know of another that nearly fits the bill but I doubt if you are aware of it!

28 AM2
As said before Variation of Devolution does not require a referendum. Instead of all these various options clamouring for attention may I suggest a primary referendum with the two top choices going into a secondary referendum? But of course that would get us back to a basic Yes/No to independence situation.
43

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 14:32:43
#51 Scotland is not, currently, being governed in the interests of the Scottish people. It is being governed in the interests of the SNP, specifically with the aim to improve the chances of success in an independence referendum. It is simply untrue to suggest that this equates to the interests of the Scottish people. If it did, you wouldn't need a referendum.

This trite lie about the SNP being the only party with Scottish interests at heart is one of the least pleasant aspects of SNP support. It is damnable.
44

Sanny,

Upwey 09/05/2008 14:34:58
49 Duncan in Edinburgh,
I can’t believe your response is to be taken seriously! Until May last year the SNP were an unknown in government, whereas we have had experience of governments of all the other parties. Where do you have difficulty with this concept?

You attempt at obfuscation is almost on par with AM2. Nowhere have I said, or implied, that the SNP would be permanently in power in an independent Scotland! I would expect that other Scottish based Party’s, as opposed to London centric Party’s, would contest all elections. The SNP itself is in fact a very broad political church and who is to say that it may not morph into a new kind of Political system. All things are possible in the best of all possible worlds.

Your last paragraph doesn’t even warrant a response. The convolution I suggest is in your thinking, or lack thereof.

45

Sanny,

Upwey 09/05/2008 14:37:47
53 Duncan in Edinburgh
This must be my last response to you Duncan, you are totally devoid of any logic in your thinking thereby making it impossible to have a reasoned discussion with you.
46

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 14:39:35
#54 My point was entirely clear, and salient. The SNP exists in order to achieve independence. There is no logical reason why it should need to prove itself in government before asking the independence question, because should it achieve independence, the SNP will no longer be necessary.

The decision to delay the referendum bill until the end of the parliament had nothing to do with proving the SNP's credentials for governance, and everything to do with giving them time to pick enough fights with Westminster, and enough holes in devolution, to persuade the simple minded that independence was a better option.

Few honest, intelligent SNP supporters would disagree.
47

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 14:44:20
#55 I'm also right, which I appreciate must make it doubly difficult for you. x
48

Season Ticket Holder,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 14:52:33
#53 Duncan
you said
"This trite lie about the SNP being the only party with Scottish interests at heart is one of the least pleasant aspects of SNP support. It is damnable."

The trite lie is yours when you talk of Salmond "picking fights"

The SNP are the only party with ONLY Scottish interests at heart - that makes a huge difference, and allows them to argue for Scotland without fear of damaging their party's interests in the rest of the UK. If you want a good example of how UK interests don't mesh with Scottish interests you need only look at at Wendy and Gordon's stramash. Will the Scottish Labour Party be seperate party from Labour when all this dust settles? It would be a great thing if they were, and Labour politicians could join with the SNP at Holyrood with the set purpose of representing the people of Scotland,. Which is what they should have been doing these last 8 years.
49

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 14:58:43
Why is she called Bendy Wendy ?

50

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 15:00:17
#53, we'll just have to disagree on this point. Your opinion of the SNP is obviously as low as is mine of the London-based parties!
51

Alberto.,

09/05/2008 15:01:37
Could it be that Wendy is suffering from the dreaded feeling that is currently infecting the New Labour crowd, that of PMT - that is 'Political Mental Trauma' - with such rantings, combined with recent current activiities from the Public, it would appear to be well embedded - and obviously, without any known cure!!

The great pity is they are still there!
52

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 15:08:49
#58 The way you blithely - no, offensively is a better word - dismiss the efforts of all non-SNP politicians as being somehow anti-Scottish, or poisoned by association with the rest of the UK, is disgusting. I can list you a hundred non-SNP politicians from the past 50 years who stand head and shoulders above the opportunist and populist eejits who currently represent the SNP.

History started a long time before Alex Salmond, sunshine.
53

me150,

09/05/2008 15:10:53
Have any of you actually thought about this.

The best way to make a new leader look good and get a resurgence of support for the party is to have the current leader perform a few gaffs and make the party look ridiculous.
54

Merouane,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 15:12:17
#63. Hmmmm, so who's your tip to take over from Wendy?
55

me150,

09/05/2008 15:12:35
#53 I agree wholeheartedly.

SNP stands for easy popular politics to win votes not effective politics to look after Scotland or the interest of it's population.

56

me150,

09/05/2008 15:14:53
#64, I know of no-one that could do this job and that includes all other parties.

Probably best abandon the Scottish Parliament and get our best into Westminster to see if they can have any impact there.
57

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 15:17:08
Can someone tell me why this women is called Bendy ?

If she advocates money for a new Forth Bridge/Upgrade to the a9/implausable scottish project will she then be known as Spendy Wendy Bendy ?
58

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 15:17:22
Sorry Duncan , carry on man.
59

Season Ticket Holder,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 15:21:00
#62 Duncan
You seem determined to take offence and put words into others' mouths. I don't dismiss anyone's efforts. But the Scottish Parliament was set up precisely to serve the Scottish people, so those who are elected to it should do their very best to do just that. Having to water down your policies, or change them entirely, because your parties UK interests are different than Scotland's is just plain dishonest. The remarkable thing is that Scotland didn't take much notice of what their own Parliament was actually capable of, until the SNP demonstrated that those elected to it could make great changes without having to ask permission outside Scotland. Long may it continue. Take off your blinkers and see the new Scotland approaching.
60

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 15:31:01
#69 Of course what you say dismisses other people's efforts! You have stated quite baldly that every politician from every party outwith the SNP has failed to act in Scotland's interest and has somehow capitulated to the interests of others.

I can hardly be accused to leaping to offence given that that is your direct accusation. My response is simply to say that there are many figures from the Labour movement and beyond whose contribution in Scotland's interest has towered above what Salmond and his populist cronies have done, or are every likely to do for our country.

You're the one who made the claim that everyone other than the SNP is failing to act in Scotland's interests. I am simply exposing the deep unpleasantness of your lie.
61

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 15:35:40
#70, it's only fair to say that the SNP would have been unlikely to have led an independent Scotland into the Iraq war!
62

Merouane,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 15:37:25
#66. Ok, so who are our best then? George Foulkes perhaps? ;)

To be honest, I don't think the quality at Westminster is any better. Perhaps we should ask Norway if they could govern us. Maybe we could elect a few Scottish Labour members to sit in the Norwegian Parliament.
63

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 09/05/2008 15:44:49
Duncan in Edinburgh, what you describe is not a political party it's a movement,as some used to see the SNP back in the fiftys and early sixties, and you know what, it didn't work, that made it too easy for opponants to say what you just did, many hard decisions were taken along the way and not every member could live with it, but the SNP did change into a political party prior to 1974 and that's when unionists started to sit up and take notice and to really start talking about things like devolution, not that they wanted it, but to stave of the growing tide of nationalism, it's true that tide has ebbed as well as flowed at times, but now it seems to be on it's way to full flood.

As for the SNP not governing in the people of Scotlands interests, the majority of those same people would seem to disagree with you.

With regard to the government lifting people out of poverty, this is about the crulest con-trick they have pulled, given that poverty in this instance is seen as a finacial level, who sets the level, the government, so add even just 50 pence to someones income to take them above that level and they have seemingly been lifted out of poverty.

They take hypocracy to ever lower levels!
64

Season Ticket Holder,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 15:49:45
# 70
You're behaving like a prat - I said no such thing, and if anyone is bored enough they can look back thru the posts to check. You're determined to be the poor chappy defending a vicious attack. grow up.
65

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 15:52:14
#73 None of that changes the fact that the SNP remains a vehicle to achieve independence, and it does not need to prove any skills in governance in order to bring forward a referendum. I assume you do not believe that an independent Scotland would continue to elect an SNP government ad nauseam?

As for your claim of a majority disagreeing with me, on what possible basis do you make that claim? What evidence is there that a majority of Scots believe the SNP is the only party governing in Scots interest?

You are right though; in advance of lifting half of families with children out of poverty, the Labour government did redefine what poverty meant. They threw out the Tories' measure of an absolute income, and introduced a new measure with a far lower bar to entry. So in fact they first acknowledged that many more people were living in poverty than the Tories had, and then set about helping them. Which makes their achievement all the more impressive, and important.

Hypocrisy? You cannae even spell it chum!
66

Merouane,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 16:07:26
#75. "The SNP remains a vehicle to achieve independence"

Of course it is, but you seem to think that they want independence just for the hell of it. They would argue that they want it because it is in Scotland's best interests.
67

ochone,

Sauchie, clack's 09/05/2008 16:23:20
75~ there goes that hair trigger of a temper of yours again Duncan, maybe I can't spell it, that does not mean I don't recognise it when I see it, after all I have wittnesed it in the guise of varous unionist governments for many years and now in your reply.

The truth is that after independence there will be a readjustment to ALL political parties, it will then be up to the members to argue what they stand for, what is most important to them, and once again the voters will choose, my hope is that it will bring the kind of people into politics at all levels who have been turned of in the past because of much of what went on, I hope that we will see a new style of politics, but one where the first level of interest will be the welfare of all the people of Scotland, whether they are Scots by inclination or birth, whether they wanted independence or not and no matter what their colour, creed or religin etc, I have heard much talk of this kind of thing over the years under British rule, but it never amounted to much.

BTW I never said there was a majority who believe that the SNP is the only party governing in Scottish interests, but continuing polls show that the majority believe that the SNP are best at representing Scottish interests, again and as Season Ticket Holder was saying, with the unionist party's there are times when there is a conflict of interests between Scottish and British interests and not surprisingly when, as they have all said themselves,at the end of the day they are British party's, the interests of Britian usually come out on top.

The SNP do not have that conflict of interest, that is a simple fact.

As for the poverty thing, it's the ammount of help that's important, that's what can change lives and not just gestures to make some government spokesperson look good when he or she announces them in parliament.

It also makes you wonder where all those people suffering the poverty came from living under such a wonderful system as they ha
68

ochone,

Sauchie,Clack's 09/05/2008 16:26:17
77 Continued.
they have done!

BTW, there is a sort of unoffical protocol on these pages, not set up by me, which goes along the lines of, if your down to having a go at someones spelling it usually means you've lost the arguement.
69

Farky,

Scotland 09/05/2008 16:34:54
Independence is the best option. Not sure it is inevitable but it by far the best option for Scotland.

For far too long the Scottish people have been powerless to improve their own country. We now at least have a government that is able and willing to stand up for Scotland.

Can't see anything wrong with that!
70

Merouane,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 17:02:19
#79. I think it is inevitable so long as the UK government (whether Labour or Tory) continues to work against the wishes of the Scottish government. I really can't see any UK government being so enlightened for that to change... so independence it is.

I just hope the Unionists, north and south of the border, don't make the whole process any more difficult than it has to be.
71

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 09/05/2008 17:03:56
#49

"The SNP is a single-issue pressure group dressed as a political party, and it would fragment immediately should separation from the UK be achieved."

I think that is wishfull thinking on your part.

The traditional British Model of Tories on the right, Labour on the Left and the LibDems taking on the impractical utopian votes may not be the political model we see in an Independant Scotland.

The SNP is showing the value of having a party that is not wedded to left/right ideology but will be pragmatic and seek practical solutions for problems.

I know that this is bad news for Class Warriors such as yourself, but just because it is inconvenient doesn't make it untrue.

#75

"What evidence is there that a majority of Scots believe the SNP is the only party governing in Scots interest?"

I think if you look at the polls you will see the increasing support for the SNP as a judgement on their policy of sticking up for Scotland.


72

shivago8,

livingston 09/05/2008 17:11:43
Wendy is a housewife---nothing else
73

puskas,

East kilbride 09/05/2008 17:12:13
It seems yet again that the Duncans' of this country are losing the debate.
I shall not bother to answer any of his quotes as others have tried and failed miserably. The unionist populace is gradually disppearing down Wendies U - Bend due to the fact the Duncans of our green a pleasant land keep on dripping at the mouth with the same discredited pro-union argument..

The tide has turned gentlemen, towards Scotland becoming an independant nation..

All the gobbleygook from the unionists with stats etc. has failed as the majority of voters in Scotland will show in 2010 or 2011..

The fear with the Duncans of this country is because their attempts of fear are now failing like they haven't done in the past..

I shall finish now by saying. I overhead on the radio a short time ago that the latest opinion poll for a GE by voters in Scotland would give the SNP a resounding victory for Westminster.
Anyone out their know what the % figures where as the broadcast didn't provide them...

Mr Salmond yer daeing a fine job ma man...



74

Andrew Allan,

09/05/2008 17:32:01
#16.,AM2.
'– “I've never shirked from a fight with Westminster over Scotland's interests.”
– “Machiavelli was not nearly Machiavellian enough for me.”

Put those two together and they run to the heart of his kind of politicking.'

Considering these statements the first minister has said, the first one should tell people he is not about to let westminster walk all over Scottish interests, which at least most people should approve of I would think, and the second statement for those who don't know already states a fact, and that is that Machiavelli wasn't actually what we call Machiavellian, he was in fact intuative recognizing what he actually saw in front of him, and how thing could work out in theory philosophically speaking.
75

gus1940,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 17:35:28
#2

Anything to do with the fact that Monteith considers himself to be a 'character'.
76

Andrew Allan,

09/05/2008 17:38:01
#70., Duncan in Edinburgh.
'Of course what you say dismisses other people's efforts! You have stated quite baldly that every politician from every party outwith the SNP has failed to act in Scotland's interest and has somehow capitulated to the interests of others.'

Personally speaking Duncan I would change politician to party to make this statement correct.
77

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

09/05/2008 18:00:39
She's in turmoil. It'll be that time of month.
78

Alan B,

09/05/2008 18:33:15
#Duncan in Edinburgh

U talk about the snp picking fights. Can u give some examples so far as i can see it has been labour picking all the fights.

1)blair would not congratulate salmond on the victory
2)brown would not either until embarrassed by the press
3)the exposure that brown tried to do a secret deal with Campbell to keep the snp from power if they won the election. thankfully the lib dems had some morality as did jack mcconnell.
4)brown reported not anwering salmonds phone calls.
5)brown refusing to put in place the communication system between the parliament that labour actually created at the time of devolution.
6)blair not telling the snp about the libya thing.
7)brown withholdng money from scotland that should have come about because of barnett. prisons and personal care (i believe).
8)lit:
a)the treasury declaring it illegal even though it was not their job to it is the preciding officer of the sp. putting pressure on a legal decision.
b)brown trying to withhold council tax rebate money that if the snp dare to not abide by his policy of keeping council tax.
9)the withholding of money for farmers even the farmers union was blaming brown.
10)refusal to hand over powers for scottish election despite his own report into the election debacle saying it should.
11)the lowest increase in the scottish block grant since the parliament came into being. is that just a coinsidence or was brown vindictively attacking scotland because it voted snp. (if the increase in the first yr is 0.5% based on cpi (2.5%) and real inflation is running at the much higher level of over 4% (rpi). Is that not a cut?

Can u give an example where the snp have actually engineered a fight with brown.
79

James (1),

09/05/2008 20:47:09
Duncan you appear to be living in the past and not willing to join the rest of us in the present!
Labour had plenty of time to get things right and did not.
Now whilst SNP may not be the best party they are better than Labour so that has to be a good thing?
Labour are slowly self destructing right in front of us.
Brown has had years to plan what he would do when he got in the hot seat.
Now he is there he appears to have amnesia.
Alexander is a joke and not long for this political world.
You go on about Labours past glories. Like some football fanatic going on about their teams cup wins in years gone by.
History! What was done in the past is all well and good but it does not mean they are the party/team of today.
I voted Labour most of my adult life (when they were actually the Labour party) and would rather not vote at all than give them another chance to shaft me.
Local Labour were a conceited ignorant shower who ignored their public (and paid the price for it) and it is clear to see that this Government has taught them well.
80

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 09/05/2008 20:52:56
Well Brian, a pretty good commentary, it must be difficult for you defending the Labour Party now.You are so right also that the SNP are, according to their MANIFESTO, waiting until 2010, so by that time the SCOTTISH people will have seen the benefits of being an INDEPENDENT NATION AGAIN. The overwhelming majority will vote YES for INDEPENDENCE and NO to having to wait another 300 years to have the opportunity to be asked again.I'll keep reading your stuff, at least I know where the enemy is!!!!
81

karinxxx,

09/05/2008 22:11:25
Is this the same brian montheith that was a conservative MSP then became an independent because he brought down mcletchie and then he montheith had to hand back taxi expenses?
82

Auckland Arab2,

09/05/2008 22:39:53
pomposity of professors - would these be the same crackpot Labourites the Scotsman is fond of quoting when it suits their anti-independence stance?
83

Daniel Salaman,

Nicosia Cyprus 09/05/2008 23:29:26
I would like to change the question of this subject with no offence to Mr Brian Monteiths article 9 may 2008,Mr Brians says,does Scottish Labour leader Wendy really know what she is doing? I say does Britains Labour leader Gordon Brown know what he is doing? I thingk that both both mention leaders above,are now seriously damaging our National British political interests,just take a good look at the Labour Partys popularity is down to rock bottom, Polls - 26 their lowest rating ever since records began going back to the 1930s. would it be to much to say that no one under the sun on this planet sould be surpriced at all. Gordon Brown has lost hope of having any chance of a political recovery.Britains economical damage under Gordon brown government its for sure irrecoverable.In a recent article of mine in the internet news scotman, i have said that Gordon Brown was never cut out as a politician,furthemore i have never ever thought that he had any partiqular charismatic talent in politics, and to make my point to you as clear as crystal,the PM has no future in British politics.He serves no perpose by staying at No 10 he is only delaying the enevidable. People in this country have ma