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Holyrood's PR fears over hawks tucking into pigeon

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Published Date: 19 January 2009
SCOTTISH Parliament bosses were warned that bringing in birds of prey to scare off pigeons could result in a "PR disaster" if the hawks began eating them alive in front of schoolchildren.
But it was suggested the parliament could "play up" the potential health risks associated with pigeons in a bid to win support for using the birds of prey.

The parliament announced last month that it had agreed a four-year falconry contract – costing £13,000 for the first year – to tackle the pigeon menace which has plagued the £414 million Holyrood building since it opened in 2004. Officials emphasised at the time that the hawks or falcons would be used to deter pigeons, not kill them. But documents released under freedom of information show there were concerns about the move.

In a report before the decision was made, parliament officials warned, under a section headed The Risks: "Several councils abandoned hawking when the hawks caught pigeons and began eating them in front of the public.

"As a wild animal there is no absolute guarantee the hawk would not attack and kill a pigeon. The hawks eat their prey while still alive. This would be a PR disaster if it happened in front of the school next to the parliament or perhaps at the public entrance."

Concluding there was evidence that hawking worked, the report said: "There are risks of negative publicity from animal rights groups, but perhaps by playing up the potential public health risks and by careful handling from MRO (Media Relations Office), this could be managed."

The documents also reveal that a four-week trial using birds of prey in the summer may not have been as successful as parliament officials claimed.

A report assessing the use of three different birds – a red-tailed hawk, a Harris hawk and a Saker falcon – said: "Both hawks were successful in flying to high points.

"The red tail was good at getting into some of the nooks and crannies, but often had problems on landing, failing to stop, and on one occasion flew into the windows of the Members' Restaurant."

The report also noted that care had to be taken because of the presence of baby pigeons: "Although the red tail had never killed, faced with easy pickings, there was always the risk."

The report added that measuring the success of the falconer was "perhaps more difficult than first imagined".

It said: "There was a perception that flying birds of prey would scare off pigeons and gulls, and a successful outcome (be] achieved fairly quickly. While in the immediate and short term the birds of prey unsettled other birds, in all probability they did not deter the nesting birds.

"Pigeons roosting on the building would fly off to a safe haven and after the falconer had moved away with his birds the pigeons were observed returning to their nests."

The report said that towards the end of the trial, there did appear to be fewer pigeons on the MSP block. But it added: "This may have been a perception rather than a fact."


The full article contains 522 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 January 2009 10:35 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: The Scottish Parliament
 
1

Hermitage,

Edinburgh 19/01/2009 12:03:35
Diddums.

Nature is red in tooth and claw (Tennyson) but the poor little children mustn't come face to face with reality, must they?

Pigeons, gulls, grey squirrels are all vermin, and should be culled.
2

Jules59,

Edinburgh 19/01/2009 12:03:47
I saw a hawk catch a pigeon outside Tollcross School on my way to collect the kids last Monday. No kids saw it luckily, though I think adults would have been more squeamish about it than the kids...
3

Foo,

19/01/2009 12:06:46
Pigeons, gulls, grey squirrels are all vermin.

They have as much right to life as you do.
4

Khartoum Colin,

Port au Prince 19/01/2009 12:07:36
"PR disaster" if the hawks began eating them alive in front of schoolchildren. I would have thought that any pigeon that gets scudded by a hawk is going to be well and truly Potted Heid by the time the hawk gets it beak stuck in.

5

Amenemhat,

19/01/2009 12:09:23
I'm glad the freedom if information act is used so well.
6

Louis Catorze,

19/01/2009 12:10:37
Yeah, we must protect 'the children' from the animal kingdom at all costs.

MSP's being suprised at the outcome of one of their plans...whatever next?

7

elayne,

19/01/2009 12:12:35
i am a pigeon lover and look after some pigeons,so i find this highly distasteful!!! i think more humane methods could be used to scare the pigeons away from the building,holyrood have got their knickers in a twist about the pigeons,i know my 7 year old daughter would be heartbroken if she witnessed a hawk eating a pigeon,they have as much right to exist as you or i!!!!!
8

Liz,

Edinburgh 19/01/2009 12:20:39
#7
What about shooting them then? Quick clean kills by a trained marksman. Once they have finished at the Parliament they could clear out some of the other areas of the City as well.
Don't get me wrong, pigeons are beautiful birds but the disease infested ones with legs missing that hobble around the city centre really should be controlled.
9

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 19/01/2009 12:22:56
Where I live it is quite common to see big black-backed gulls swooping down and catching fledglings 'on the wing' in the early summer. It is not uncommon to see magpies raiding nests for eggs and fledglings too. Predation is normal and it's no big deal. #7. Nature is, to quote the old saw, red in tooth and claw. I take it you don't let your daughter watch wildlife programmes.

As far as I am concerned rats, pigeons, gulls and other vermin need to be controlled. Using hawks is, at the very least, a natural method (seeing that we're so precious about using firearms - even just air rifles - to control them).

10

Vivas,

Edinburgh 19/01/2009 12:24:14
The average city-centre pigeon is a piece of winged vermin. Dirty, diseased and depositing foul sh|t over surfaces. I welcome anything which controls their numbers and applaud this natural means of going about it.

And apart from a few squeamish Priscillas and Percivals, most kids enjoy a good gore-fest :-)))
11

Foo,

19/01/2009 12:27:06
I have never, ever heard of anyone catching a disease from a pigeon.
12

Hector the Red,

19/01/2009 12:29:28
Nature in its raw & most beutiful form, the strong picking on the weak, the hunter & the hunted. I'd say it would probably attract more peole than it would deter.

A good lesson in life for kids as well.
13

calum,

19/01/2009 12:29:32
I remember the dopey stairheid bully Margo MacDonald MSP proposing this solution and comments were made at the time that peregrines et al would kill and consume their prey on the wing and in front of the public ..... that is what they do because they haven't been trained to use a knife & fork with a napkin tucked in their neck feathers to soak up the glaur!! As for Animal rights groups, they clearly have no grasp at all about nature and its ways.
14

Edinburgh Writer,

19/01/2009 12:32:57
When I was a wee boy, if I'd had a chance to see a hawk killing a pigeon I would have thought it was fantastic. Let's not mollycoddle kids: if they find out a bit about nature at close hand, all the better.
15

steve 1511,

aberdeen 19/01/2009 12:33:40
is any hawk or bird predator large enough to catch politician.now that what i would call vermin control
16

Truthman,

DC 19/01/2009 12:35:39
They should not worry too much about the kiddies seeing nature at work when it appears that soon they will be seeing folks shooting each other in the street, as happens in the eastern part of my city.
17

Mr Bob Dobalina,

19/01/2009 12:36:16
#11 - I once caught something unpleasant from a dodgy bird.
18

Ecto,

19/01/2009 12:38:42
Que mad Elayne and her lunatic sympathy for flying rats, just poison the bloody things and be done with it then no soppy over protected child will witness them being torn apart by hawks and it would no doubt costs about a tenth of hiring bloody hawks, jesus these people are unbelievable at wasting money.
19

Sister Morag,

Lasswade 19/01/2009 12:38:46
Live and let live I say.

Can we instigate a cull on MSPs who drop fag ends in the street? Hello Mike Russell, Environment minister somewhat ironically...
20

Foo,

19/01/2009 12:43:01
#18 - Pigeons aren't flying rats.

Rats are rodents of the superfamily Muroidea.

Pigeons constitute the family Columbidae within the order Columbiformes, which include some 300 species of near passerine birds.

Good grief, where did you go to school where they taught you that!?
21

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 19/01/2009 12:43:48
#11
Clearly you have not been around much. "Pigeon fancier's lung" is a well-known condition you can get from pigeons. Here are some extracts from an Bird Control website :

"Candidiasis is a yeast or fungus infection spread by pigeons. The disease affects the skin, the mouth, the respiratory system, the intestines and the urogenital tract, especially the xxxxxx. It is a growing problem for women, causing itching, pain and discharge.

Cryptococcosis is caused by yeast found in the intestinal tract of pigeons and starlings. The illness often begins as a pulmonary disease and may later affect the central nervous system. Since attics, cupolas, ledges, schools, offices, warehouses, mills, barns, park buildings, signs, etc. are typical roosting and nesting sites, the fungus is apt to found in these areas.

Salmonellosis often occurs as "food poisoning" and can be traced to pigeons, starlings and sparrows. The disease bacteria are found in bird droppings; dust from droppings can be sucked through ventilators and air conditioners, contaminating food and cooking surfaces in restaurants, homes and food processing plants."

Then there's ecoli....................................
22

Ecto,

19/01/2009 12:48:26
Foo I agree I hate the bloody things they should be dispatched at every opportunity by whatever means possible
23

Lionking,

In The Sun burnt country o' western Australia 19/01/2009 12:49:16
#17 aye me too but Pennicilian is a wonder so it is ... LOL
24

Foo,

19/01/2009 12:52:09
Pigeon facts:

Pigeons are typically distinguished from mice by their size.

Pigeons are edible by humans and are sometimes captured and eaten in emergency situations.

Ancient Romans did not generally differentiate between pigeons and mice

People born in a year of the pigeon are said to get along well with "monkeys" and "dragons," and to get along poorly with "horses."

One of the oldest and most historic stories about pigeons is The Pied Piper of Hamelin, in which a pigeon-catcher leads away an infestation with enchanted music

The Black Plague is traditionally believed to have been caused by the micro-organism Yersinia pestis, carried by the Tropical Pigeon Flea
25

The Barred O' Leith,

19/01/2009 12:52:17
2. As Tollcross is the gaelic school, was it a Hawkeye the Noo?
26

Douglas,

Bathgate 19/01/2009 12:52:35
Good to have the welfare of kids uppermost.
How could we, as a country, live with ourselves if our wee angels suffered flashbacks while despatching another enemy soldier on the X Box or beat up a prozzie on PS3?
Scottish Parliament bosses need to get a serious grip.
27

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 19/01/2009 12:53:36
The numpties have decided against a cull and using the meat as food for people as would have happened in days of yore.

Obviously, given the article above they've got a 'no canned doo' attitude.
28

elayne,

19/01/2009 12:54:30
#11 neither have i!!!!
#18 im not mad!!far from it,i happen to have belief that animals/birds etc deserve to be treated with a bit of compassion,and my child is not soppy and overprotected,she is interested in nature and wildlife,which is better than "bratz" and computer games (like a lot her age)
29

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 19/01/2009 12:57:04
Contrary to what some people might think, birds of prey do not eat their prey alive. They kill it first.

The idea of having the pigeon problem dealt with using birds of prey is not that they will kill all the pigeons, but more that their presence will deter pigeons from nesting there in the first place. In which case, the birds of prey should be deployed during the nesting season.

This is actually a good idea. Pity that it has been hi-jecked and implimented by morons.
30

Lionking,

same as last post 19/01/2009 12:57:31
#24 I've seen all these magic things it's called nature taking it's normal course and to all you other posters that diagree..........get oot into your countryside or visit the Australian outback !!
31

Foo,

19/01/2009 12:59:43
#21 - That's a strange measure you use to determine if somebody’s 'been around much' - whether or not they have contracted a pigeon related disease.

I once got a rash from a tarantula if that counts?
32

Foo,

19/01/2009 13:03:42
#30 I was born and raised and currently live in the countryside. I know all about animals eating each other.

It's the fact that you seem to derive some sort of (sexual?) pleasure from animals being killed that worries me.
33

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 19/01/2009 13:04:00
#11, #29

read #21

34

elayne,

19/01/2009 13:05:35
#24 i do live in pretty much a country area!!!and i do realise that their is a food chain etc,but i happen to like pigeons,
#27 you have a point
35

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 19/01/2009 13:05:42
#34

One would have to wonder where you derived that from.

In any event, pigeons ARE a source of disease.
36

Dragonlord,

19/01/2009 13:05:53
Strange that picturs of a Buzzard in the press killing a bird that is rare to this country is hailed as great photography but a hawk killing a pigeon is awful. Kids need to find out about life, and if they see this then the teachers need to explain life goes on. NOT get out the councilor and wrap them in tissue paper.
37

Foo,

19/01/2009 13:12:57
#38 - #24 had more than a hint of joy when describing animals being killed.

OK, so do we eradicate everything that is a source of disease? Bleach the streets? Declare war on the animal kingdom?

Have you EVER caught a disease from a pigeon?

If you knew what you were talking about you'd never call me PC. I simply don't take pleasure in killing things. Why do you?
38

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 19/01/2009 13:13:22
Possibly less a case of Foo as of fu', I suspect !
39

Foo,

19/01/2009 13:16:23
#41 Ah I see, when you can't think of what to say just bash out an insult.

Very poor.
40

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 19/01/2009 13:17:22
I never called you PC at any point. Furthermore, there is not the slightest hint of anything I've written that suggests I derive any form of pleasure from the thought or act of killing. However, I am pragmatic enough to accept the need for it in such circumstances.

I am a genuine country boy not some townie living in the countryside. I may not have caught anything but I know two people who got pigeon fancier's lung some years ago.
41

Speedy Gonzales,

Edinburgh 19/01/2009 13:17:59
#21 - pigeon fanciers lung
I've only heard 2 people suffer from this, both indeed were fanciers, both used a practice where they stuck the pigeons head in their mouth, and then proceeded to inflate the pigeon so it appeared more 'attractive' to the female. Now I'm no doctor, but that practise has a slightly higher risk of infection than your average person on the street would encounter with regular pigeons!
42

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 19/01/2009 13:22:52
My comment was that pigeons are a source of various diseases. Something you professed not to know. Well you know now.

As for the Pied Piper, every version of the story I have read says the piper cleared away a plague of RATS.
43

Foo,

19/01/2009 13:23:20
#43 - OK, I might have confused you with peter at some point! Sorry about that!

My point is that you can kill the pigeons but more will move in, and unless you slaughter the whole pigeon population they will just reappear.

They don't actually do any damage, they don't harm anyone; in fact they clean up all the puke from the weekend binge drinkers so just let them get on with it!
44

Foo,

19/01/2009 13:25:08
#46 - Yeah, you're kind of missing the point there. Never mind...
45

Foo,

19/01/2009 13:52:19
#50 - And your point is?
46

Spamhead,

Bathgate 19/01/2009 14:00:34
A bird of prey is more ethical than most the kill is usually quick, whereas a cat will either kill for practice and fun and take time and pleasure from it.

In both cases kids should not be protected from nature, this nanny state is only storing up trouble in the future kids need a major slice of reality. and watch worse in cartoons, and the discovery channel.
47

Prester John,

19/01/2009 14:08:14
#47
"They don't actually do any damage, they don't harm anyone"

This is only one of, literally, hundreds of articles on this subject :

"Pigeon Damage and Damage Identification
Pigeons can be found in large flocks around sizable buildings, farms, cliffs and bridges. Pigeons are very easily identifiable birds due to their messy habits. They leave their droppings everywhere they go, particularly, their roost sites. Pigeon droppings contain uric acid that makes them extremely corrosive. The droppings are the direct cause of millions of dollars worth of damage to buildings and other property; those particularly vulnerable are painted surfaces, canvas awnings, signs and other similar surfaces. A tragic example of the corrosive nature of pigeon droppings is the 2007 Minnesota bridge accident, which was found to be a direct result of droppings eating away at the metal supports until they were weakened."
48

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 19/01/2009 14:09:24
then :

"Health Hazards with Pigeons
There are many health risks associated with pigeons and their droppings. You don’t want to turn a blind eye towards pigeons, underestimating the risks associated with these birds. The bacteria, fungi, and ectoparasites that they and their droppings harbor are numerous. Some of the diseases associated with pigeons are histoplasmosis, cryptococcosis, listeriosis, Newcastle disease, and salmonella. Pigeons also carry many ectoparasites such as ticks and mites that can infect their human hosts with such wonderful diseases as encephalitis, avian pox and meningitis.
WMNR can provide you with a safe and effective abatement of disease carrying contaminants. Bird droppings, nests, and carcasses can be safety removed and the site disinfected to reduce the health risks to you and others that may come in contact with the contaminants."
49

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 19/01/2009 14:11:55
http://www.birdguard.com/pigeon-control.html
50

jenny,

musselburgh 19/01/2009 14:19:55
The last four times I have been walking up the Royal Mile passed the Parliament, I have encountered the new(ish) leader of the Labour Party "enjoying" a cigarette just outside - I'm beginning to think he must be a fixture there with his fags - do you think he could be employed to smoke out the pigeons?
51

D Williams,

19/01/2009 14:33:53
Is this becase the pidgeons are sh*tting on our world-class Parliament building ? Makes a change from MSP's sh*tting on those who put them there.
52

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 19/01/2009 15:06:17
And the same kids will go home and play gory video games and watch Nature programs on telly where one animal eats another.

Bl@@dy PC nonsense.
53

Foo,

19/01/2009 15:43:25
#60 - Your website's rubbish.
54

Top_Dawg,

19/01/2009 18:47:53
Well there will be a bost for the menu at Holyrood!
55

nozza, born n bred bingham now living in newcastle,

cramlington 19/01/2009 19:12:59
theis things we see flying about are what you call crowp. they are not racing pigeons and you certainly wouldn't want to keep them in a hut in your back green. theis crowp are full of disease and fleas and we should treat them like the vermin they are. most real pigeon fanciers i know, if they catch crowp in the pen, they will nut them, break their neck, WHY? BECAUSE THEY SPREAD DISEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
56

elayne,

19/01/2009 20:18:12
#45 that is done to inflate the crop,which male pigeons do as a courting ritual,i agree it is pretty dodgy sticking the birds head in your mouth

most diseases pigeons have(and yes i know they do sometimes)are easily treatble with "spartix" or "baytril"with a good success rate for the birds recovery,and i know nature is harsh etc but i like pigeons so all who dont,,,deal with it,and leave us animal lovers alone!!
57

Fifi la Bonbon,

19/01/2009 21:09:04
All this talk about pigeons' "rights" - since when did a wee bird have a right not to be killed and et by a bigger bird?
58

is it me?,

Edinburgh 19/01/2009 21:51:18
Wee birds have bigger birds to bite 'em,
...and so on, ad infinitum.
59

is it me?,

Edinburgh 19/01/2009 21:57:40
Foo likes city pigeons because they eat human puke.
I think we should have more rats. They do the same thing.
And they don't knock off at 5 o'clock.
60

La5t_minit,

19/01/2009 22:27:27
What about setting the hawks on the children and worrying about how the baby pigeons would feel?.

Politicians have been picking the bones of everyone for years and showing no remorse for their actions, why the sudden interest in how people feel?
61

JIM IN USA,

florida 19/01/2009 22:35:52
It's OK for these poor wee bairns to tuck into a cow,pig,lamb turkey or chicken. maybe the hawk should cook the pigeon and eat it from a plate then it would be OK. Teach the children about nature in the real world.
62

Foo,

19/01/2009 23:10:52
Only a headcase would insert a pigeon head into their mouth and blow.

Mental.
63

Brisbane Jambo,

20/01/2009 03:02:53
Much a doo about nothing really.....
64

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 20/01/2009 03:39:18
you.see.it.all.the.time.over.here.hawks.everywhere.swooping.down
65

,

20/01/2009 09:15:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
66

Zugspitze,

20/01/2009 10:43:09
People need to get some perspective here. If these children are going to school on the Royal Mile or visiting Parliment, they will probably see FAR worse than a bird being eaten by another. When I lived on the High Street my 4 yr old son had to step over vomit, faeces and broken glass on a regular basis as well as trying to avoid condoms left strewn about in closes. THAT is upsetting to a child, not nature. I'd rather comfort my child after having seen a completely normal act of animal life rather than rush him into the nearest shop to wash his hands after he accidentally touched a used condom stretched over a bollard!

 

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