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Salmond targets Burns' Day for independence launch



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Published Date: 14 May 2008
FIRST Minister Alex Salmond was today marking the SNP's first year in power by unveiling a raft of new initiatives.
And he said the Scottish Government was looking at using Burns' Day 2010 to launch its independence referendum bill.

Mr Salmond was expected to tell MSPs the SNP had already implemented many of its manifesto pledges from last year's election and i
s well on the way to implementing others.

And among the new measures he was due to outline were an increase in the amount of government information that is put into the public domain.

He was expected to announce a pilot programme for the pro-active publication of more information, arguing that openness and transparency means more than responding to freedom of information requests.

And he was also expected to talk about a new online initiative on public accountability, to be called Scotland Performs, which would measure progress in the economy, health and education.

But opposition politicians were waiting to see what the First Minister had to day about more controversial policies which they believe could spell trouble for the SNP, such as the proposed Scottish Futures Trust, which is intended to replace Public Private Partnerships, and its plans to introduce a local income tax.

Speaking ahead of today's statement in the Scottish Parliament, Mr Salmond said the government was "looking at" January 25 2010, the birthday of Robert Burns, as the date to launch referendum legislation.

He said: "If you are launching a referendum bill you should launch on a propitious day.

"It would also give more than enough time to get the bill through, and a decision by the people, in the autumn of that year."

Labour yesterday appeared to back away from its previous promise that it would "not vote down" the chance for Scots to have their say.

Duncan McNeil, chairman of the Labour MSPs, said: "We have no principle objection to a referendum. But that doesn't mean we're going to give up our right to scrutinise that bill."

And asked whether that meant Labour could vote against such a bill, Labour chief Michael McMahon said "yes".

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Gordon Brown was today seeking to regain the political initiative today by outlining the legislation the UK Government plans to bring forward over the coming year.

The draft Queen's Speech was expected to include measures to extend "personalisation" of public services like health and education, as well as reforms to regulation of the banking industry and new support for the housing market.

Mr Brown was expected to unveil plans for a community empowerment bill, giving the public more say over the police, NHS trusts and local government.

And he was expected to promise white papers on political party funding and House of Lords reform and a green paper on a British bill of rights and responsibilities.





The full article contains 478 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 14 May 2008 10:55 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish independence
 
1

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

, Newington 14/05/2008 14:12:28
Burns Day in 2010?

Salmond merely demonstrates that he's a timrous beastie.
2

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 14/05/2008 14:41:03
"Wee sleekit.cowrin.tim'rous beastie,
O,what a panic's in thy breatie" - it could have been written for Bendy Wendy.
Burns Day 2010 will do fine by me.
Scots Wha Hae.
3

Nicol Sturgeon is Eddie Munster,

Glasgow 14/05/2008 14:58:47
Is this the self same Robert Burns who extolled the virtues of the union.

More revisionist nonsense from the guttersnipe.

I'm sick and tired of hearing about his National Conversation. It is impossible to have a reasoned debate when the SNP refuse to table the nature of their particular brand of "independence".

Every argument is moot until they give us concrete written detailed plans for their plans.

O ! let us not, like snarling curs,
.....In wrangling be divided,
Till slap come in an unco loon
.....And wi' a rung decide it.
Be Britain still to Britain true,
.....Amang ourselves united ;
But never but by British hands
.....Maun British wrangs be righted.
4

Merouane,

Edinburgh 14/05/2008 15:18:26
#3. There is no set brand of independence. Just like there is no set brand of Union. Things change and post-independence, other governments will come in with different ideas from the SNP.

By the way, that's a pretty hilarious insult about Sturgeon... well done.
5

John Knox furr First Meenister,

High St, Embra 14/05/2008 15:23:06
Aye, the self same Robert Burns who was equally capable of bemoaning the loss of nationhood

What force or guile could not subdue
Through many warlike ages
Is wrought now by a coward few
For hireling traitor's wages.
The English steel we could disdain,
Secure in valour's station;
But English gold has been our bane -
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

Burns could face both ways, as can the Scots, as Salmond doesn't quite get...
6

Nicol Sturgeon is Eddie Munster,

Still Glasgow 14/05/2008 15:34:57
There may be no set brand for independence but it seems ridiculous that we have virtually no idea of what an SNp post union Scotland would look like.

Am I to believe that the SNP will cobble together an entire document outlining the nuances of independence during the next two years whilst simultaneously running the country?

They have had 30 years to produce such a document and have categorically failed to do so.

The most important decision for this country in the last thirty years and the party wishing independence managed to put together an internet forum which is unreadable as a means of expressing our views.

I'd like to know their views first and foremost.

7

blackley,

Edinburgh 14/05/2008 15:38:47
Okay fine to independence but what do we do about all those numpties in the west of Scotland with their twisted sectarian mentalities. they'll ruin it for everyone.
8

Nicol Sturgeon is Eddie Munster,

Inside Blackley's mind 14/05/2008 15:46:18
I was thinking the self same thing about the nationalist xenophobes who make up about a third of our country.

Where will all their bile be directed if they get their way?
9

Nicol Sturgeon is Eddie Munster,

In heaven now. 14/05/2008 15:54:55
I have no idea if your quotes are verbatim AM2, if they are you have made me a very happy man today.

No doubt we will be treated with Salmond's new interpretation of Burn's work which will clearly show had he been alive today the thought of a free prescription would have turned him to the nationalist cause.

He might have dies of cancer due to no money for drugs but if he had hay fever is runny nose would have been sorted for free.

Priorities!
10

Merouane,

Edinburgh 14/05/2008 15:57:25
#6. Well maybe you should listen a bit more. I have a pretty good idea of the kind of Scotland that the SNP want to see. If they continue as a force post-independence, then we might see that happen. I wonder what sort of vision the Labour party has for a post-independent Scotland... have they made any comments regarding that?

#8. Who are the nationalist xenophobes and how do you you know they are ~33% of the population?
11

Nicol Sturgeon is Eddie Munster,

Glasgow again 14/05/2008 16:04:55
Merouane...please direct me to the information source which explains the post-independence structure of our...

NHS
Armed Forces
Transport system
Border control
Currency and controlling entity of our currency
Border control
membership of EU
Benefits system
12

Merouane,

Edinburgh 14/05/2008 16:21:33
#12. I don't think you understand the philosophy behind the SNP. It's about trusting a parliament elected solely by the Scottish electorate to make decisions on these issues. Post-independence there will be elections and parties will stand on these issues and we can elect who we see fit to govern the country.

I'm sure there will be movement of people in and out of the SNP that will see a different party with different ideas exist then than does now.

To answer your question, we can have a good idea of how the SNP thinks with regard the NHS and transport as they are already devolved. For the others, you might want to have a look at http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/194791/0052321.pdf to begin with. I also suggest that you contact someone from the party, I'm sure they'd be very happy to help you out.
13

DavidPerth,

Leeds 14/05/2008 16:26:10
#12 You and your type are the reason I haven't psoted here for months - you are so closed to an adult discussion. Both extreme nationalists and unionists spoil what should be a mature discussion.

For the record, the NHS in Scotland will be exactly the same post independence as it is now.

You do realise #12 that the 4 NHS countries are ALL independent of each other already, don't you? That would be why there is a Scottish Government Health Department.

With this level of mature discussion and the continued statistical rants of AM2 do you understand why I don't post here?

David
14

DavidPerth,

Leeds 14/05/2008 16:28:40
#12 You and your type are the reason I haven't psoted here for months - you are so closed to an adult discussion. Both extreme nationalists and unionists spoil what should be a mature discussion.

For the record, the NHS in Scotland will be exactly the same post independence as it is now.

You do realise #12 that the 4 NHS countries are ALL independent of each other already, don't you? That would be why there is a Scottish Government Health Department.

With this level of mature discussion and the continued statistical rants of AM2 do you understand why I don't post here?

David
15

Stephen Cowley,

Edinburgh 14/05/2008 16:40:48
Hi AM2,

You quote Burns:
“To the British constitution, on Revolution principles, next after my God, I am devotedly attached” – Robert Burns
However, when the 1688 Revolution happened, there was still a Scottish Parliament, so that particular quote is not to your purpose.

We might agree though, that it is anachronistic in some ways to claim his support for a modern political party. His Whig/radical position, with a touch of sentimental Jacobitism, would suggest some of the ground since divided between SNP/Labour, with possibly even some room for pro-home rule conservatism in the Alick Buchanan Smith mould.
16

Jimmy the Pie,

14/05/2008 16:42:51
Sounds good to me Alex.

Keep up the excellent work.

Scotland is proud of you.
17

Highland Mighty,

14/05/2008 17:07:16
18. I come back and STILL the nationalists think they speak for all of Scotland!

No, you don't. You speak for a minority, always have and always will.

What's the latest publicity stunt from SNP Central? £600,000 to create a "Centre of Excellence for Scottish sport"?

Really? Just how much will £600,000 buy? A new gym, some extra staff.......and then what?

That's a fraction of the amount the PL football clubs even spend on their academies.
18

Scotsman in Dublin,

14/05/2008 17:07:59
#9 AM2, Where on earth do you get these quotes? BNP handbook of propoganda?

To give you the benefit of the doubt I looked up one of your quotes. “To the British constitution, on Revolution principles, next after my God, I am devotedly attached” – Robert Burns

I googled this quote but only found two valid links to this reference. One was by you in another Scotsman thread and the other in "The Project Gutenberg EBook". Immediately after your quote in Gutenburg was this -

"In this letter, another, intended for the eye of the Commissioners of the Board of Excise" This quote was from a letter Burns wrote for the benefit of his employer. Burns was often forced to deny his nationalist and republican beliefs, in order to A. Keep his job and B. Keep his head. Bear in mind the times, some of his friends were deported for their beliefs and Burns himself only narrowly avoided this.

Get your own heroes AM2, these would be Edward Plantaganet, Margaret Thatcher, Butcher Cumberland etc. Burns was a real Scot.

I cant wait to see yout response but unfortunately I have somewhere to go now. Perhaps if I had a full time job doing this like you I could sit and listen to your nonsense all day. Perhaps tomorrow you'll have some quotes of the pope extolling the vitues of Islam and Ian Paisley on his love for the Catholic church!
19

pehman,

sussex 14/05/2008 17:12:39
From the article ;-

Mr Brown was expected to unveil plans for a community empowerment bill, giving the public more say over the police - (read this as 42 day detension)

And he was expected to promise white papers on political party funding (or to put it another way, getting blab out of the £20 million black hole they're in) and House of Lords reform and a green paper on a British bill of rights and responsibilities.
20

Conan the Librarian™,

14/05/2008 22:22:44
25
I think he was talking about at least two, more recent, revolutions.i.e. The American and French ones...And there is the chance that he sent four carronades to the French Convention.
Perhaps that has been "excised" from your memory?;-)
21

,

14/05/2008 22:30:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 15/05/2008 00:42:12
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.1804171.0.0.php
23

FS,

Stirling 15/05/2008 00:49:51
Where have Brown's proposed changes to the British constitution gone? A long while back there was talk of getting rid of the discrimination legislation on Catholics marrying the monarch (or something like that) and more importantly legislation giving the HOC the right to declare acts of war - this was prevented over a year ago when Brown began as big changes. Does anyone know if these seemingly progressive plans are going to actually be put into practice?
24

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 15/05/2008 00:59:06
"O wad some po'er gift tae gie us, tae see oursel's as aithers see us"

As an autonomous country, with new maps, www.future.scot,international representation, H.Q.s of companies setting up here, Scottish Embassies in countries around the world. Our own radio, Our own Media control, our own language back, a natural outlook to progress -not to fast- and not too slow. A myriad of respectful gestures to the seaports and the reinstating of our old trade routes with the addition of new, a philosophy of efficient operating systems severed from the old imperial sludge. Building with the traditions of our past using the advancements of the present. Investing in real leaps in power generation. Rebuilding our communities, having a more humane existence. Having our country back.

Thats how we should begin again.

25

John Knox furr First Meenister,

High St, Embra 15/05/2008 01:07:49
#30 I don't like it. Just sounds like your problems getting aired. Get some help. New lines drawn on maps aren't going to transform your life, y'know. They're not real!
26

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 15/05/2008 01:25:15
31 Perhaps you missed the first sentence. You obviously see problems before solutions.You project rather badly. Hail the Unionist.

Pretending to be thick and reactionary, how many monikers is that now?
27

Royster,

15/05/2008 01:37:38
Didn't Robbie Burns serve in the local militia? That more or less proves he was a unionist.
28

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 01:38:14
QUOTE: "....asked whether that meant Labour could vote against such a bill, Labour chief Michael McMahon said "yes"."

And it might also snow in July but the chances are so low we don't give it a second thought.

Labour will be 'DELIGHTED' to support the Bill in Jan 2010 in order to reflect the public mood. To vote against would guarantee the loss of their seat in 2011 as opposed to just probably lose their seat as it stands now.
29

,

15/05/2008 10:06:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
30

The Answer,

Glasgow 15/05/2008 10:11:16
This is the future under the SNP, 10 months in power and 10,000 male scots jobless (1000 a month)

Wellcome to scotsland, the place where lots of men dont like to work.

466,000 more people in England are in employment than a year ago!

-1000 less people in scotsland are in employment than a year ago!

234,000 more males in England are in employment than a year ago!

-10,000 less males in scotsland are in employment than a year ago!

13,486,000 males in England are in employment!

only

1,327,000 males in scotsland are in employment!

5.78 million is the size of the public sector UK wide

4.8 million public sector workers England

yet a massive

586,000 public sector workers in scotsland

compaired to only

486,000 in Yorkshire and The Humber (which has a larger population than scotsland )

population figures for scotsland are also bogus

4,174,000 persons aged 16 and over!
888,400 persons aged under 16!

5,062,400 Total population ?

However the official population figures state

5,138,000 mid 2007 official population figures?
5,157,000 mid 2008 official population figures?

75,600 of scotslands population dont appear? why?





Labour Market May 2008 page 35 (scotsland aged over 16 numbers)
tinyurl.com/6blszk

HMRC Children under 16 numbers (tab6)
tinyurl.com/5lrnza

Population figures PESA2008 Table F1
tinyurl.com/3p5py5
31

Stephen Cowley,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 10:47:33
Hi AM2,

Interesting stuff. My point was that the 1688 Revolution was indifferent between a Scottish Parliament or none and so less to the point than might be thought. It's centenary was certainly widely celebrated in Scotland and it's terms were well known, so I'm not sure why the passage of time is relevant.

You quote Burns again:
“I would say there existed a system of corruption between the executive power and the representative part of the legislature, which boded no good to our glorious constitution, and which every patriotic Briton must wish to see amended.” – Robert Burns

This would appear to refer to the Court of George III and his dismissal of Parliament that was considered an abuse of Prerogative (limited by the Revolution settlement) e.g. by Law Professor John Millar, Burns' contemporary.

Your quote at least shows that Burns was not opposed to "amendments" to the British constitution, or presumably in current day terms to that of Europe.
32

MoClana,

15/05/2008 12:06:07
Christ AM2 your getting pretty desperate. Each time you make a comment it is proved to be utter nonsense.

Over the months you have predicted SNP minority goverment wil falter - its got stronger. The SNP referendum will never happen - its now going to happen. Support for independnece is falling - its actually increasing!

And now your trying to tell us Robert Burns was a Unionist with a spat of copy /pastes.....let it go man.
33

Stephen Cowley,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 15:51:54
#43
Hi again AM2,

Burns' constitutional understanding must certainly have run deeper than the idea that it "evolves" with legislation and legal rulings. The 1688 Revolution for example, reasserted (on the Whig view) the requirement for tacit consent of the people. That principle had been compromised under George III, per the interesting quote you give.

That is some way from Scottish self-government of course, and Burns' later views have to be seen in terms of the European political crisis provoked by the French revolution.

You would stretch the evidence to see him as a Burkean enthusiast for the Dundas despotism though.
34

,

15/05/2008 17:31:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
35

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 15/05/2008 17:32:17
"Independence Launch"

Has a ring to it.....


36

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 15/05/2008 17:36:33
From the other day.......
"109
Peter,
Labour Perrier Award Shoe-ins 12/05/2008 11:24:54

Hoi! Fairfax - Loads o'money, see my English wad yer scrounging Jocks. Scotland didn't have a national debt prior to the Union - we inherited the English one.

Scotland wasn't bankrupt prior to the Union, we were in surplus and had an economy that was growing rapidly which the Union killed, stagnated and didn't reach the 1707 levels for over 50 years and has underperformed ever since.The only folk in trouble were the Lords and Land owners who signed up for the Union as they were skint after buying into Darien by mortgaging their lands to the Edinburgh middle classes who by 1706 were looking to call in their mortgages.

A quick look at international law says you are talking mince - England will not be entitled to squat diddly as it has already had its cut of Scotland's assets as part of the UK. Scotland on the other hand could seek reparation for damage caused the the country by English interests - e.g. Westminster Parliament - as by any stretch of even your deranged imagination it is dominated by English constituencies and therefore is English centric in its actions.

My bet is that when independence comes it will happen far more smoothly and quickly than all the Unionist barbed wire on the border folk make out as an amenable and quick divorce is in the best interests of both parties. Prolonged and fractious negotiations will kill the 'City' and damage an English economy which is heavily dependent on financial services for its wealth."

Hail the union fuhrer.
37

,

15/05/2008 17:39:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
38

,

15/05/2008 17:44:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:

 

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