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Lothian Buses HQ is the next stop in pram ban campaign



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Published Date: 13 October 2008
MOTHERS were planning to protest outside Lothian Buses' headquarters today as they continue their fight to allow prams on buses.
Former Labour leader Wendy Alexander is the latest to back their campaign, saying the company has made the wrong decision in completely banning non-folding prams and buggies.

She joins Lothians MSPs Kenny MacAskill and Shirley Anne Somerville, wh
o are also supporting equal access for parents with babies.

More than 1400 people have signed a petition and the Scottish Parliament's petition committee is due to consider their case on November 4.

Lothian Buses claims its ban is in line with the Disability Discrimination Act, as they are ensuring there is space available for a passenger with a wheelchair. But disability groups have said it is unnecessary and that most parents are happy to leave the space if it is required.

Ms Alexander, who is a mother of young twins, wrote to the campaigners expressing her support. She said: "I have every sympathy. This is the wrong decision by Lothian."

Now parents and their children are planning to collect signatures outside Lothian Buses HQ today. They were set to display balloons with their logo on and hand posters to the company managers. They were setting up a stall on Princes Street to gather more signatures this afternoon.

Caroline Burgess, 27, from Barnton, one of the leading campaigners, said: "We don't want to antagonise bus drivers – we want to show our support for them. They've been put in a very difficult position."

"We would like to see them working with us on an education campaign, to ensure all passengers show consideration for people in wheelchairs."

Gillian Richards, 36, a graphic designer and mother-of-twins from Willowbrae, has designed a poster highlighting the huge variety of prams and buggies available. She said it shows the difficult position drivers are put in as they are expected to know which types are allowed on.

She said: "We want to show them the campaign is going on. We've already shown Lothian Buses the amount of support the public have given us.

"We are just looking for a compromise. If a mother has to get off a bus to make way for a disabled person, then they should offer her a forward ticket so she can get on the next one."

Catriona Black, who started the petition, said: "We just want to continue putting pressure on them. We don't want to cause any disruption.

"If this is successful, then we would like to see a wider campaign to increase access for everyone on buses. It should be possible to design new buses with space for more than one wheelchair or pram."

The Equality and Human Rights Commission for Scotland has already called for a "more flexible approach" and said wheelchair access should not mean banning prams.

The city council has also called for an end to the "fiasco" and is set to meet Lothian Buses in the next few weeks to discuss their policy.





The full article contains 509 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 13 October 2008 9:52 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

danbob,

13/10/2008 12:34:38
Would they have got prams on to the buses of twenty years ago without folding them up? No. So unless these silly woman have somehow had their hands and arms geneticaly modified so they cannot use them, fold the blessed things up.
2

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 12:44:57
The drivers have long since given up enforcing this ridiculous ban. It's about time that the whole matter was just quietly forgotten about.
3

Miss Scotland 1906,

On pram free bus and happy. 13/10/2008 12:47:44
Well said danbob.
Also when the bus gets full, sit your child on your lap and let someone have the seat.
The MOTHERS who are planning to protest outside Lothian Buses' headquarters today are having a go at the wrong people. They would be better off having a word with the lazy ones of them that put them all in a bad light, to which people are getting fed up with now.
4

Bob 2,

13/10/2008 12:50:55
Yawn............is this story still running

its been repeated more time than I can remember


me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me meme me me me me me me meme me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me
5

ZipptJeffrey,

Castle 13/10/2008 12:51:09
Instead of dissing decent mothers, who just wat to have a day out with their kids, why dont Lothian buses admit their stupidity on this and drop this pointless illegal rule. A lot of the upper management at Lothian Buses are just a hinderance to the company and need to be given their P45.
6

Miss Scotland 1906,

13/10/2008 12:51:46
Fed up with the ones who think because thay have a pram that they can jump the Q.
7

Miss Scotland 1906,

13/10/2008 12:54:43
#5 SSShhhhh
When the trams come, the pram bams can take them over and leave the buses to us.
The only good thing about the trams.
8

Miss Scotland 1906,

13/10/2008 12:56:27
I do not like the word BAM, but think it goes well with PRAM.
:0)
9

Linmal,

Livingston 13/10/2008 13:07:35
Oh please - is there no other news today? This has become so boring. Try walking with your pram. Edinburgh is a great city to walk in and if you want to use the bus get a buggy that folds - now get on with your lives and stop being a nuisance to the rest of us.
10

BobW,

On the bus 13/10/2008 13:10:13
They should think seriously about having children if they can't afford a decent car.

Please don't give in to them Lothian buses. It will be hell trying to get past full size non-folding prams.
11

Lothian Buses Driver,

East Lothian 13/10/2008 13:36:09
YOU LOT WITH PRAMS AND BUGGIES ETC ARE NOTHING BUT A PAIN IN THE REAR. IF I COULD GET MY WAY I WOULD BAN THE LOT OF YOU. PRAMS AND BUGGIES ON THE BUS CAUSE MORE AGGRO THAN ANY DRUNKS OR KIDS. BAN THE LOT OF THEM NOW.
12

o.a.p. jambo,

on the back straight 13/10/2008 13:39:51
Keep your policy Lothian Buses.
I just wonder how long the alleged support for the bus drivers, from the mothers, will last when the inevitable happens and the driver asks the mother to vacate the space and if required leave the bus to accommodate a wheelchair user.
If the drivers are being put "in a very difficult position" it arises solely from the actions of this group of mothers.
It is the responsibility of Lothian Buses bosses to ensure that their employees do not become embroiled in, or have to act as a referee, in any dispute between wheelchair users and pram pushers.
Therefore I repeat they must keep their policy.
13

Bob 2,

13/10/2008 13:42:36
On the other hand , at least if the pram brigade are outside LB's HQ, There will be plenty of space on the buses.

Nobody putting there TANK sized pram on teh bus, or squeezing upto the front of the bus queue.!
14

Bob 2,

13/10/2008 13:44:24
no13

it is amazing how a gentley spoken woman can turn so nasty in a few seconds, with vocabularly many have never heard.
15

craig7653,

Port Seton 13/10/2008 13:50:56
Here we go again. Why do all mothers think that they are the exception to every rule in life. As soon as they give birth this big chip on their shoulder pops out aswell. Why should everyone else give way to prams and buggies. I am sick of these mothers, and i am sick of badly behaved kids they drag up into society. Stick to your guns Lothian Buses.
16

Brian Ferrari,

13/10/2008 13:52:25
I wonder how they're all going to get to LRT HQ ?
17

Stan1,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 13:52:33
Ok, non-folding prams/chairs are too big to get on buses full stop. Ban or no ban. I am so fed up with people who have kids ranting on about how they deserve this and that. Why should you be able to get on buses en masse and block the entrance and ailses?? Just because you have kids? IT WAS YOUR CHOICE it is NOT A HUMAN RIGHT. Just fold up the chair or walk with it - that is why they have wheels. Sorry, but the rules are pretty common sense, if there is no room then you can't get on. You get to park closely to supermarkets, get on planes before other people and you possibly and/or husband get to leave work early to pick up the kids and get loads of paternity leave etc - what more do you want???
18

Jimmy B'Umlove,

East End (Boys) 13/10/2008 13:55:51
Buses are fur losers onyway!

It's maistly OAPs that git in ma way when ah huve the misfortune tae use the bus. Single mothirs are nae probs at a', the irritatin' yins are the old gits oot fur a bus run at rush hoor, takin' up a' the seats.

Leave slummin' it tae the people fae the slums!
19

Iain Bhern,

13/10/2008 14:02:35
#5, the rule may or may not be pointless (I'm not going to comment on that) but it is not illegal. If it were it would have been done away with as soon as all this nonsense became public.
20

Wullie Smith ,

Embra 13/10/2008 14:05:10
Havn't I read all this already , like 14 times already ?
21

fresian,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 14:46:20
Why not just get the Roslin Institute to clone Marilyn McLaren, and sit her in the wheelchair space, that way, no one else would want to sit there as it would frighten the children. If they managed to clone her without any legs, the driver could just lift her into the little box where the Metro's go when a genuine wheelchair user wanted on
22

Mallory,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 14:49:15
Couldn't Lothian buses fix a hitching rail on the rear of buses? They could tow these prams along behind.
23

Giraffe,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 15:15:56
No. 1 - a wheelchair user wouldn't have got on a Lothian bus 20 years ago either - it's called progress.

I am sick of hearing (and I bet it's mostly men or crabbit faced old women "in their day") saying mums now should fold up their buggies/prams. Where would they put them amongst everyones shopping from Lydls or suitcases. Then the new mums would have to carry their wee bairn in their arms then try getting off amongst the tons of people drivers pack onto the bus, not to mention some of the drivers should have jobs driving waltsers. Its easier/convenient leaving a baby in the buggy/pram, especially if you have shopping - what in God's name is wrong with that - its not laziness. The only folk with buggys/prams who are causing this problem is the ones who refuse to get off.
24

sazm,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 15:20:08
I don't see why it can't be first come first served with this situation. People in wheelchairs are no different from anyone else and although they never want discriminated against and to be treated the same as the next person, then they should be treated the same in all circumstances. If parents have a fold down buggy and someone in a chair gets on then it gets folded away, simple. And as some people forget, they were babies once too, would they have liked it if they were refused a bus in the p'ing down rain? Don't think so
25

danbob,

13/10/2008 15:26:04
24# You are right wheelchair users couldn't get on buses twenty years ago. And for this reason modern buses are a good thing. However the kneeling buses as they are called were designed for wheelchairs and not prams. The problem here is that when the first mother tried to wheel a pram on to a bus, she should not have been allowed to. It should have been niped in the bud there and then. This row is the product of a selfish society who have the idea that they must not be inconvienienced at any cost.
26

Don't believe the hype.,

Embra 13/10/2008 15:37:08
I hope the Police lift you for public order offences and the social work put your kids into the care of responsible adults.
27

Giraffe,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 15:38:22
danbob - I totally agree, it should have been nipped in the bud but I suppose as there are really not a lot of wheelchair users drivers probably thought they were just being nice letting prams/buggies on - which is fair enough, and yes, it's the the selfish silly witches who are too stoned to be bothered to get off the bus or do anything else.
28

WKKB,

13/10/2008 16:12:33
C'mon people... how big does a pram really need to be to carry a child. If you want something big enough to carry the child, the shopping and the kitchen sink get a car.
29

WKKB,

13/10/2008 16:17:44
a small folding pram I think should be acceptable but when you get these monster prams that can carry practically the entire family that's a little much, don't ya think? It's the people who want it all that seem to cause the most trouble for the people who tend not to have so much. Just because you have a bigger pram doesn't make you any more special than the mum who tucks her wee one in an 'umbrella stroller' as they were called when mine were wee. It folded up in to a walking stick height and about 4x4 square plus the wheels. It perfectly fit between my knees on the bus if I needed to fold it and hold the babes.
30

fresian,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 17:02:15
Great idea No 30, allow 4x4s to travel on the bus, thus increasing their fuel efficiency.
31

Miss Scotland 1906,

13/10/2008 17:10:54
Bring back the wee light blue cars.
Ban the Pram Bam.
32

I must have annoyed somebody earlier,

13/10/2008 17:54:36
I have just woken up from a long coma. Any news about the pram fiasco?
33

Jenny100,

EDINBURGH 13/10/2008 19:19:16
Not many comments from mums (or dads)I see. Probably too busy looking after the kids.
34

*raven*,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 20:16:57
completely agree that parents who refuse to move for wheelchair users are disgusting...but what about those of us who do have manners, always say thank you and please to those who let us past with the buggy and who are just trying to get from A to B like any other person? i will walk when possible, but like anyone else sometimes the distance is just a bit too far. i think its unfair to say we should all just walk and thats why prams have wheels. if thats the case then why doesnt everyone walk. i have been pretty much stuck in my area recently, having to limit what i do and where i go if the distance is too far because i am so worried about being told im not allowed on the bus or worse, getting to my destination then finding i cant get back.
if i was on a bus and the space was needed for a wheelchair i would happily vacate the space and everyone else i know who has babies would do the same. its just a few bad apples that have spoiled it for the rest of us, those of us who have respect and manners and who do care about other peoples needs.
35

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

13/10/2008 21:58:03
#33 - no, go back to sleep, please.
36

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

13/10/2008 21:58:58
#34 - or down the pub -& not looking after the kids
37

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

13/10/2008 22:00:36
Prams ? - I blame the parents.
38

Robbierunciman,

Romney Marsh 13/10/2008 22:12:10


The only person with legal rights here is the wheel chair user and this Pram lot are trying to curtail them. I can see pressure been brought on a wheel chair user to wait for the next bus 'for the sake of the children' (and the convenience of the mum) if LRT were to concede. The comment about an 'onward ticket' if a pram has to get off a bus is odd - haven't they noticed the stickers with the £2.50 all day fare on the front of the buses.

I think part of the problem is the design of bus they have chosen. Most only have one door. London has some large modern buses with two doors that make it easier for prams and wheel chairs to get on and off.

Perhaps LRT could specify a design of folding buggy that is acceptable?
39

thaijambo,

Edinburgh 14/10/2008 00:04:19
I was at a bus stop at York Place yesterday. 2 woman where at the stop with their small fold away buggies - however they made no attempt to fold the buggies, would have been simple to do, as they waited on the bus.
40

Miss Scotland 1906,

Edinburgh. 14/10/2008 09:33:53
Bring on the trumpets.
41

SeaChelle,

14/10/2008 10:14:17
I wonder if any of the previous posters have ever had to fold up a pram whilst holding a young, probably sleeping , baby? It is unrealistic to expect parents, because in the 21st century it's not just mothers who take their children out for the day, to try to juggle baby, pram, shopping and possibly older children as it's fairly obvious reading the posts that other passengers are unlikely to offer to help, although it's hardly fair to presume everyone is like all of you, some people have hearts. It is far safer for a small child to travel in a pushchair with it's brake on than to be carried by a parent, especially if the bus driver thinks they're on the dodgems. So give people with prams a break, perhaps make it a condition of taking the pram on that if a wheelchair user wants on the bus, then fold up the pram on the bus when the shopping and older children are safe, and there might be a fellow passenger with compassion who will either hold the baby or fold the pram for you, I wouldn't hold my breath though.
42

Miss Scotland 1906,

14/10/2008 11:16:33
#43
So when a baby is asleep, you can never move it. Rubbish.
I have seen for myself mums NOT moving their prams for a wheelchair user. The bus driver can not say anything because the mum will have a hissy fit.
If you think going on a bus is like the dodgems, then don't go on them.
43

sazm,

edinburgh 14/10/2008 17:41:15
As i said earlier, these people complaining about buggies must have been born adults and their parents must have always walked or driven a car themselves. Wheelchair bound people are able to queue like any other person!!!
44

Miss Scotland 1906,

14/10/2008 20:07:26
#45
Do you have a point?
NO.
You say Wheelchair bound people are able to queue like any other person.
I wish mums with prams would queue like other people, but they think because they have a kid it gives them the right to jump the queue.
What did you do before the new buses came?
Fly.
Stop being lazy and fold your buggies and before the bus comes would be good.
45

sazm,

edinburgh 15/10/2008 15:11:06
#45 are u a bus user with a baby or in a wheelchair? Well why ru getting ur knickers in a twist. I have a car but sometimes do get a bus with my baby and i DO fold my buggy up and carry it on. Can i just ask what would happen if someone in a wheelchair was refused entry on a bus because of a wheelchair user being on already? I'll tell you what, it'd be in the paper then next day saying "wheelchair user told no"! ALL I AM SAYING IS BABIES AND DISABLED FOLK HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS SO QUEUE & FIRST COME FIRST SERVE
46

Miss Scotland 1906,

15/10/2008 16:28:28
#47
Why are you talking to yourself.
1st sign that you are going mad.
Keep the mad off the bus.
47

sazm,

edinburgh 16/10/2008 09:50:42
#48 shoosh

 

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