Saddam dead at dawn

1

Jakey Rowling,

30/12/2006 12:30:59

At last, a suspended sentence I can agree with.

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2

bill, england,

30/12/2006 12:41:35

It is interesting that Saddam was killed on the same day that John Scarlett was knighted.

If John Scarlett had not falsified the intelligence reports on Downing Street's (Alistair Campbell) instructions then Blair would probably not have dared to invade Iraq illegally and he might well have prevailed on Bush not to do it either.

These gangsters are guilty of killing hundreds of thousands of people, and they are also worthy of the noose.

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3

JG,

Fife 30/12/2006 13:10:55

While there is no doubt that the world would have been a better place without this despot, I am not convinced this "trial" and execution were the best courses of action. The repercussions remain to be seen. It would have been better had he been found dead down his rat hole.

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4

,

30/12/2006 13:13:24

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5

Faramars,

Iran 30/12/2006 13:16:47

As an Iranian , i am very happy that the saddam has been hanged because of his offences against humanity , particularely against our nation .

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6

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 13:22:21

Should he have been executed?

Conservative estimates are that he was responsible for:

killed overseas (Iran v Iraq and Kuwait): 1,000,000

killed at home (Ba'ath politics): 1,000,000

I think yes is the answer.

Not all Swedes are Neutral.

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7

,

30/12/2006 13:24:18

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8

ivor,

Paignton 30/12/2006 13:30:23

I wonder if another self righteous over confident idiot President would deservedly die with dignity? I can think of a puppet Prime Minister who would say " Now look fellas you misunderstood me, I can do no wrong"
The rule of law died here in December, just before Saddam justifiably died

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9

abracadabra,

30/12/2006 13:35:19

If justice has to be truly followed, when do Blair and Bush go on trial for the thousands that have died in the name of "freedom" and the thousands still to die through the instability they have created.

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10

Rossw,

Berks 30/12/2006 13:44:49

Saddam was indeed a brutal dictator who was groomed for the role by the same Western states who ultimately precipitated his demise. Those same nation states were happy for Saddam to slaughter his subjects with the weapons they sold him whilst it was expedient to so do, as it fitted the subversive objectives of agenccies such as the CIA.

Why has no Western leader been taken to task for the mass murder of the Iraqi conscripts who were slaughtered on thir retreat from Kuwait City. A rag tag army forced at pain of death to fight, butchered by gung ho yanks in tank buster planes.

No wonder we in the UK as the major ally of the the most subversive, blood thirsty nation on the planet are now almost equally as unpopular as they. I can only hope that Tony Blair and George Bush will spend an eternity in hell with Saddam, forced to listen the screams of terror and suffering of the tortured souls their misguided and selfish war has created.

Shock and Awe a real world weapons demonstration aimed at keeping the US defence industry in peak condition to feed their disproportionate need for everything consumptionist. What a cynical way to sell to the next generation of tin pot dictators, whom whilst doing the the bidding of the US will be allowed to get away with murder, just wait until they threaten the US lust for oil or something else of equal importance.

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11

,

30/12/2006 13:47:15

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12

,

30/12/2006 13:48:12

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13

,

30/12/2006 13:55:28

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14

Bill, Dunblane,

30/12/2006 14:00:02

10 - Rossw

Very well put.

I'm very afraid that there will be a high price to be paid for today's action.

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15

Jockyw,

30/12/2006 14:04:31

Now my Saddam bank notes etc must be worth a tad?

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16

antstrad,

South uk 30/12/2006 14:07:48

The death penalty should be in place for all those who think that a life is only worth a few years in jail as many killers do. Only then will a potential killer think twice before carrying that knife or gun or drinking before driving the car etc. Unfortunately for the likes of Saddam this would never have been a deterant but his fate has been partially justified in my opinion. Someone should have stubbed a cigarete out in his eyes and poured boiling water over him before choking him by hanging as he did to so many of his own kind!

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17

Mark j,

30/12/2006 14:09:53

Im am saddened. We the West arent better be are all about power and greed. no peace on our Christian and Islamic holidays.
One more violent death at the hands of another.
Saddam tortured killed maimed bombed gassed many people for power and greed. Now his country is invaded occupied hundreds of thousands dead, because he didnt put his people and nation first. Bush and Blair wanted him to save his people and nation he should have walked into the West's arms before the invasion started. A dog going back to its' master. He ego was too strong that he was all too willing to sacrifice his people then. He could have called Bush's and Blair's bluff if he just collapsed his government and walked right into enemies arms. Bush and Blair are guilty of mass murder,torture and have WMD too, when will they be held accountable. Live by the sword die by the sword.
Peace to all Saddam's victims, and family. May they gain some peace, those touched by violence seldom gain peace, and are forced to see acts of violence over and over again. The world is no better, hate bigotry disease drought famine and poverty exist and we just fight and kill.

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18

Booster,

West Lothian 30/12/2006 14:12:43

However much we all agree that Saddam was a monster, lets not overlook that his execution came at the end of a mockery of a so called trial.

As part of the occupying forces in that country we shoulder responsibility for that.
When future "trials" take place in that land we wont have much to hold up as a good example of how due process should take place.

It's a sick old hypocritical world.

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19

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 14:14:13

Dear RossW:

The "oh so poor" conscripts in the Republican Guard:

"...the (U.S.) 3d Armored Division fought its toughest battles in defeating elements of the Tawakalna Division of the Republican Guard.."

".. 47th and 49th Infantry Divisions, the Nebuchadnezzar Division of the Republican Guard, and the 26th Commando Brigade took heavy fire but stood and fought..."

"...the Republican Guard were regular, uniformed troops..."

They weren't exactly a "...rag tag army forced at pain of death to fight, butchered by gung ho yanks...."

The US Army cut-off and destroyed the cream of Saddam's army, not conscripts.

It was a war. Soldiers die.

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20

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 14:22:08

Saddam should have fled to Boston after the US toppled his regime. We don't have a death penalty in Massachusetts, unless of course, you're an unborn child, thousands of whom we sentence to death without trial every day! Our politicians would have wined him and dined him, put him on welfare and purchased him a summer home on Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard. Enjoy the 72 Virginians, Saddam. Yes, Virginians . . . it's a Quranic typo. Tell Tom Jefferson "hey" for me.

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21

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 14:24:19

Mr A. P. Palmer,

you are both off the point and a very sad person.....

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22

Rossw,

Berks 30/12/2006 14:27:34

Bill

One has to ask to what extent the lies told to precipitate this war were expedient to those bent on prosecuting such a war. My belief is that Saddam was doomed the moment that he stated his intent to trade oil in the Euro as opposed to the $US given the devastating implications for the US economy of such a quantum change.

Remember the Saudis alone have $7 trillion invested in the US, which amounts to about an eigth of the total value of the US economy. The US economy hinges on the power of the petro return dollar to afford it the luxury of having a hugely disproportionate armed forces to any other nation on the planet.

Iran has now come into sharp focus in the aftermath of it's leadership suggesting that they were going to set up their own oil trading platform using the Euro as the main trading vehicle. The Iranians are not stupid they know that they cannot match the US or Israel for that matter given the modernity and cutting edge nature of their arsenals.

America is using the Iranian nuclear programme as a potential excuse to attack them, the Iranians are not stupid they know they can not beat the US in any war but by legitimately trading middle east oil in the Euro they know they can blow a hole in the US economy. The US has so far successfully taken the UN with them from a sanctions perspective, ironic really the UN is an expedient vehicle when it suits the US and when it does not it is a dismissable sham of an organisation.

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23

Rossw,

Berks 30/12/2006 14:30:22

szwed

The republican guard were allowed by the allies to escape back to Iraq to protect Saddam, there was no will to replace him in US policy at that time.

Get your facts right, those murdered in what was described by US airmen as a turkey shoot were rag tag conscripts driving predominately civillian vehicles stolen from Kuwait.

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24

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 14:30:56

Off point and sad? Perhaps, true. But at least I didn't wake up a Swede this morning!

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25

Mr_Right,

Australia 30/12/2006 14:32:42

Hung for crimes against Humanity comitted in 1982

yet supported by Reagan and Rumsfeld in 1983,

It's a mad world right enough.

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26

walter,

30/12/2006 14:35:59

A Downing Street spokeswoman said the statement from Mrs Beckett spoke for the whole government, including the Prime Minister.

Mrs Beckett said: "I welcome the fact that Saddam Hussein has been tried by an Iraqi court for at least some of the appalling crimes he committed against the Iraqi people. He has now been held to account."

She added that the Government "does not support the use of the death penalty, in Iraq or anywhere else" but added that "we respect the decision" of Iraqi authorities.

So BLair and his government are happy that some one has been held to account by being put to death.

If they respect the decisions made and carried out by foreign authorities can we then presume that the people in this country who have been sentenced to death in foreign countries will now be deported to those countries for them to be held to account for some or all of the crimes they committed and were found guilty of by a court of law in those countries.

I suppose not, just another statement by this bunch of Hypocrites.

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27

Scunner,

30/12/2006 14:38:07

Bush and Blair should be next to stand trial for crimes against humanity. God will be their judge!

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28

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 14:38:08

Hey Rossw:

Weren't you a speech writer for John Kerry in the last US election? I see you're still working for Howard Dean, head of the DNC. Well done. How are things at the Trilateral Commission?

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29

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 14:39:43

Mr RossW,

"...America is using the Iranian nuclear programme as a potential excuse to attack them.."

Instead of " ..potential excuse.." read "...legitimate reason..."

Iran's closest allies are: Syria, Libya, and North Korea

A league of gentlemen indeed.....

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30

Booster,

West Lothian 30/12/2006 14:51:22

Hey Szwede (or should it be Turnip?) why dont you put your butt on the line and go emigrate to the US, sign up for the Marine Core and start walking the walk?

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31

Rossw,

Berks 30/12/2006 14:52:00

Andrew 29

If I had written Kerry's speaches he would have won, he was to wishy washy for my likeing. I must say I feel hugely more comfortable with the Democrats wresting some control from those Evangelical Republicans who are doing my head in with their inexorable drive towards Armageddon.

I must admit things get a bit heated here at the Trilateral commission when those pesky Japanese insist on reinstaing whaling otherwise things are great.

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32

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 14:52:11

Mr RossW and A.P Palmer,

would you object to this?

"...infantry, vehicles and tanks were confined..... by the Allies. As they tried to retreat, Allied ground attack aircraft heavily bombarded the trapped troops. Under repeated attack, some of the columns actually displayed white flags of surrender, but the pilots disregarded this since Allied ground forces were not in the vicinity, and "to cease fire would merely have allowed the enemy to move unmolested........"

.
.
.
.
.
I would hope not, it was Normandy, the Falaise Gap, August 1944. A legitimate act of war, despite Article 17 of the 1st Geneva Convention.

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33

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 14:53:32

Mr Booster, I did 7 years in H.M Forces, why would I join the circus?

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34

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 14:59:39

Mr Booster,
sorry to annoy, but I had to correct you rspelling:

Inflected Form(s): plural corps /'korz/
Etymology: French, from Old French cors, from Latin corpus body
1 a : an organized subdivision of the military establishment

I'm assuming you're an illiterate ex-Marine that migrated for non-intellectual reasons.

Also, why does everyone assume I'm Swedish?

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35

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 15:01:34

Apology:

"you rspelling:" ???????

Disgraceful.

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36

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 15:02:36

Amen and halleluiah on that note, RossW. Too bad the US was out of bombs after Nagasaki. Think about all the whales that would have been spared for the Norwegian and Swedish fleets! But a lesson for Szwed, the Japs didn't raise white flags. They just took it like good, devoted fanatics should! Shame on those cowardly Iraqis!

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37

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 15:07:51

. . . but back to the main point of this rant fest . . . does anybody have a link to a video showing Saddam dropping through the hole in the floor, his neck snapping and his tongue hanging out? The censors in the US Media (free press? bah!) won't show the final moment. I want my youngest to take it to school for show and tell.

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38

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 15:08:05

Mr A.P Palmer,

"But a lesson for Szwed, the Japs didn't raise white flags. " ????

My previous comment concerned the Falaise Gap.

Which was at Falaise, in France.

Which, unfortunately, is in Europe.

Not Asia.

So why the Japanese reference?

Another terrible indictment of the woeful state of education in the U.S.

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39

Commentator,

Edinburgh 30/12/2006 15:08:06

Here we go again... any old excuse for the US/UK/Bush/Blair-bashers to have their unjustifiable rants about how wicked we are in the West and how evil our leaders are. I doubt very much if any you armchair critics/politicians have ever lived in, let alone visited, a country ruled under a true tyrant. There is absolutely no comparison when you compare our democratic system to that of many non-western countries.

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40

johnsilverstoneII,

new york 30/12/2006 15:11:42

Yes, he got his just deserts, except that two others are stll free out there spreading their hypocrisy.

Why hasn't a trial been scheduled for the two biggest liars on the planet today?

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41

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 15:11:58

Well said Mr Commentator !!!

Ask how many ex-Warsaw Pact citizens would like to roll back to the "good old days."

Or Cambodians.......

Or non-Ba'ath Iraqis.......

Or Germans, Italians, Spanish, Argentinians etc etc etc.

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42

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 15:13:00

Mr Silverstone,

Mr McDonald and Col. Saunders are under arrest as we speak.

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43

Hugh Longmoor,

Thornton, Lancashire 30/12/2006 15:14:34

No tears for Saddam here.

BUT, where are the guys for whom he was "our sonovabitch" in the 1980s when he was fighting Iran:

"Tens of thousands of Iranian civilians and military personnel were killed when Iraq used chemical weapons in its warfare.
Iraq was morally (sic) and financially backed by Egypt, the Arab countries of the Persian Gulf, the United States (beginning in 1983), France, the United Kingdom, Germany, Israel, the People's Republic of China (which also sold weapons to Iran), the Soviet Union, and the Warsaw Pact states."

A few more candidates for the big drop who won't be going on trial any time soon.

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44

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 15:15:40

Hey Szwed:

Don't forget the poor, downtrodden, casino-owning American Indians!

The Jap reference was commentary for RossW. Pay attention!

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45

Finn,

30/12/2006 15:18:26

Saddam was guilty but this was vengeance, not justice.

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46

Pilrig,

30/12/2006 15:19:02

or the Scots to pre 1997.......

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47

waynelod,

Wales 30/12/2006 15:21:12

I also heard that Saddam was well hung - now he certainly is !

Do you think West Ham will win today ?

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48

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 15:21:54

Mr A.P Palmer,

you wrote "Pay attention!"

So why the "...lesson for szwed.."

See, I was paying attention.

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49

Kathryn,

USA 30/12/2006 15:22:55

Okay, so I have been reading all of these commets and I tend to see a common theme. Many of you seem to think that President Bush should be held responsible for all of the s in Iraq on the "war on " or whatever we are calling it now. Many of you think that President Bush should be broght to trial for all of the s.
Well, for all of you who didn't realize this, the President is not the one who declars war on any country. Congress are the people who have the power to declare war. Therefor, maybe the President isn't the only one to blame.
Also a message to Ross. I don't think that you being Sen. Kerry's speach wrighter would of caused him to win. That is a rather egotystical commet to make, dont you think?

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50

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 15:23:04

Mr Pilrig,

:0)

big style!

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51

johnsilverstoneII,

new york 30/12/2006 15:23:17

40. Commentator, Edinburgh,

As much as I appreciate your points, I do hope that you acknowledge that we have an obligation to demand honesty from leaders preaching justice and freedom from the pulpit. And to me, that includes Tony n George!

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52

Blacksheep,

sc. 30/12/2006 15:25:43

I think if the United States would live by example of other Countrys and not keep people in Prison for so long that have killed others We would not have such a problem here. And for those of you that think POOR Saddam go live in another Country

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53

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 15:26:02

Ms, Miss or Mrs Kathryn,

watch out for the commets!!!!!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

(p.s. also: declars, therefor, speach, wrighter, "of" instead of "have", egotystical, dont )

...and more commets!!!!!!

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54

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30/12/2006 15:26:08

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55

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 15:28:48

Come on Szwed, you can do better than that! Let's try again, "Pay attention!"

(Here's the place where you type a witty retort!)

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56

bill, england,

30/12/2006 15:29:22

23 Rossw, Berks

The lies engineered by Blair/Campbell/Scarlett et al were necessary to give Blair and Bush an excuse to change a regime which threatened the oil cartel. Their man Saddam was getting uppity and had to be got rid of.

You rightly point out that the Saudis (you know, those 9/11 guys) have too much clout to mess with and so do the Iranians.

You are correct in saying that America is using the Iranian nuclear programme as a potential excuse to attack them; unfortunately they have managed to get the UN sanctions precursor applied, as they did in Iraq.

We are in great peril, and have to get rid of the criminals Blair and Bush and their gang as soon as possible.

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57

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 15:30:33

Mr Gibson,

we should stop hiding behind laws?

What woul dyo suggest instead of law?

("most stupidest idoits " - tautology and misspelling, utterly reprehensible, no "tick V.G" for you )

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58

johnsilverstoneII,

new york 30/12/2006 15:34:34

szwed, sweden,

Levity is fine with me. Hope you won't one day find yourself at the short end of a bargain or perhaps a raw deal from your leaders.

TQ, all the same.

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59

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 15:34:39

Mr Palmer,

please refer to the following image:

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g380000/g386387...

I believe that is a white flag, but I do not believe that they are Gyrene's invading.....

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60

Rossw,

Berks 30/12/2006 15:35:24

40

That's the whole point, freedom of speech means that I have the right to criticise a decision to go to war which has proven to be disasterous for all concerened.

This country can be a rather stark place to be when you are at odds with the establishment, just ask Dr Kelly? Oops you cant he's dead.

If we surrender our freedom and civil liberties to a culture of government perpetuated scare tactics we will surely see a shift towards a society crippled by and stunted by those supposed measures designed to deliver security.

I am no hand wringer, I just cannot believe the duplicity and double standards employed in prosecuting a war against a nation which in real terms was barely capable of fighting sleep nevermind threatening the West with with weapons of mass destruction.

And when I hear ultra Republican Patriots like Scott Ritter a member of the UN weapons inspection team in Iraq from 92-97 say that our leaders have lied to us given his assertion that he had made it plain to anyone willing to listen. That Iraq had not even the foundations of a weapons program after the wholesale dismantleing of previous programs, never mind a fully functioning deployable in 45 mins threat that we were sold by Blair/Scarlett et al.

If you do not feel the need to question those who lead us when they make decisions which effect the world you live in, that is your right. As it happens I will always exercise that right so hard earned by generations of my countrymen.

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61

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 15:36:31

Listen up you European weenies . . .
I like to drive my SUV around town with the emergency brake in the ON position (to protect my children) and that means I need oil refined into gasoline for under $2 per gallon (you math majors figure that out in Euros per liter). I get 8 miles per gallon. This gets expensive. I like to drive on the right side of the road, too. All this means the US must capture oil fields as the spoils of war. "Invade Scotland!" I say. Oil from the North Atlantic works just as well as the oil from sandy places. Not even James Bond will be able to save you, though your horrible food just might. Fight On with Haggis!

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62

Uptown Tommy D,

San Francisco 30/12/2006 15:37:26

Let every supporter of Saddam remember and celebrate the proven fact that Saddam's hero, and the person that the Baath Party was designed around, was none other than that wonderful humanitarian Adolph Hitler.

There can be no support for anyone who, for his own agrandizement, kills more than 2,000,000 humans and allows his sons to follow in his footsteps. I don't care if you are Christian or Muslim. No religion on this planet advocates the killing of another human being. If you think that your religion accepts and allows it, then you should join Saddam on the gallows.

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63

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 15:39:15

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g380000/g386387...

Yes, I concede your point. These fellows went on to open the first gay bar in Tokyo!

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64

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 15:40:54

Mr johnsilverstoneII,

please do not misunderstand, I think that Messrs Bush and Blair are a complete and utter pair of w***ers.
I just do not understand why some people then take that as an excuse to denigrate our highly professional Armed Forces.
Yes, they are allowed to ignore an order if they believe it to be wrong, so a more liberal discussion of matters is highly preferable to the inane ranting "after the fact" found heretofore in this thread.

They probably left flowers for Lady Di as well......

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65

eekwol,

London 30/12/2006 15:43:07

I don't agree with the death penalty and would never support it. But that's an entirely different issue. However, as with the UK government, I recognise another country's right to have it. China does it everyday and nobody bats an eyelid. It is only when it is detailed on TV that the true horror of execution is brought in to the comfort of peoples' living rooms and people start questioning its morals.

However, Saddam's death smells of victors' justice. Bush and Blair were responsible for the deaths of many civillians in Iraq. Though I am sure it was unintentional, charges should be brought against each of them because the war was illegal and, consequentially, all the innocent deaths are therefore either manslaughter or murder.

I doubt very much that Blair will have a quiet retirement in 2007. As Saddam's death shows, killing innocent people is not something you are responsible for only when you are president - the responsibilities go with you to your grave. This will apply equally to Blair and to Bush.

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66

Rossw,

Berks 30/12/2006 15:43:29

Kathryn 50

It was an attempt at humour as it happens, though what's wrong with having a bit of ego?

Bush and his cohorts ran roughshod over your cherished constitution in 2000 and effectively stole the presidency, therefore I have no doubts about the lengths they would have gone to to precipitate the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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67

Jaye,

USA 30/12/2006 15:44:53

Is Saddam really dead or is it one of his many doubles? Only the CIA/MI6 Homos know for sure! England Forever, Sux!

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68

johnsilverstoneII,

new york 30/12/2006 15:46:34

Guantanamo, rendition flights, and all those abuses in Iraq? Didn't George demand respect for the Geneva Convn. at the start of hostilities in IraqWar2, and loudly proclaiming that he would hold Saddam personally responsible for any ill-treatment of GI's, then?

Smell the hypocrisy?

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69

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 15:47:46

Mr A.P Palmer,

very amusing.
And after "releasing" the poor donwtrodden Japanese what do they do?
Export Sushi, for God's sake...why, oh why?

As for sake.....tastes like hot water, makes you fall over. Add something interesting, like decomposed heather like we do.

Enough about the snipers,

Would Iran not still be seeking Nuclear weaponry if Soddit Hussein was left in power?

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70

andyrich,

england 30/12/2006 15:48:39

Sad 2 hear of the death of sadaam. it's the 21st century we live in! Has history taught us nothing? To kill someone to teach that killing is wrong, is a contradiction in itself. We're all guilty at whats hapening to the world.Religious wars! destruction of the our planet! Greed, power, judgement & self righteousness equal one thing only. "SELFISHNESS". Do we really think iraq will be a safer place now that man has HUNG the leader of iraq? well if so why haven't most leaders been hung then? Evil has many disguises. The British Empire has killed millions throughout time and seem to be proud of it.There is no right or wrong, just facts to be interpreted as one may wish to do so.Think guantanamo and the injustice of people who have been there for years but not even seen a courthouse. We have just added more fuel to the fire in my opinion. It's only my opinion based on humanity and it's behaviour, so please respect mine, as i would respect yours.Andy Rich

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71

daywalker,

west edinburgh 30/12/2006 15:51:08

should have been shot when he was found save all this agro...................

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72

johnsilverstoneII,

new york 30/12/2006 15:51:47

szwed, sweden,

TQ for the fresh air!

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73

andyrich,

england 30/12/2006 15:52:18

would you like me to say i am happy to hear, man has murdered man?Andy

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74

daywalker,

west edinburgh 30/12/2006 15:52:19

now be worse for our troops..:(

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75

Rossw,

Berks 30/12/2006 15:53:06

Andrew 63

I have my Haggis set to stun, if you Yanks dare attack it will be set to Nuke.

We Scots have our sights set on Texas and your oil reserves, remember the Alamo us Scots can fight like demons, just ask the Mexicans.

And your food is an even more effective killer/disabling factor I have seen those wobble bottomed people having to be removed from their houses by cranes and fire fighters.

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76

,

30/12/2006 15:53:43

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77

andyrich,

england 30/12/2006 15:54:22

report unsuitable! well i thought this was a space to x press my view expressing my horror over the sentencing to death of sadaam Hussein.

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78

andyrich,

england 30/12/2006 15:55:19

great news would be me telling a lie

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79

Saddam dead at dawn,

Pakistan 30/12/2006 15:56:05

It is not good for all Muslims to Saddam dead at dawn. America is the big terrorist of the world. Now a days everywhere specially in muslim's country killing the muslim's like fly...All muslim's hate to America's policies...America must change their policies for muslim's countries.

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80

andyrich,

england 30/12/2006 15:56:11

how are the soldiers getting on in iaq?

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81

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 15:56:18

Mr johnsilverstoneII

Guantanamo - non-uniformed combatants. I suppose they could have been shot on sight as spies.

I don't believe they were found in Iraq though.
Maybe ebay..

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82

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 15:57:39

The charming folks in Iran march to the beat of their own drummer. When I was on station in Mexico City from 1978 - 1982, where many post-Sha Iranians liked to hang out, I learned of the strain between the religious aristocracy and the pro-Western, well-educated, youth. These "kids" did a splendid job a play Jimmy Carter for the fool holding the US Embassy for over 400 days. Thank God for Ronald Reagan! Anyhow, even the pro-Western youth want Iran to become a nuclear power. The figure, "Hell, if France can do it, anybody can!" A nuclear Iran is inevitable. We in the West can only hope that the "youth" prevail over the religious whack jobs!

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83

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 15:59:56

Andyrich is barking. Totally. Rubber wallpaper for that man .........

I suspect that "Saddam dead at dawn, Pakistan" is alive and well and living in Woking.

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84

szwed,

sweden 30/12/2006 16:02:51

Goodnight,
may your god bless,
Happy New Year to the survivors.

Lang may yur lum reek.

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85

the count,

scotland 30/12/2006 16:06:56

The trial was made in a haste, it wasn't justice made ,its revenge taken.By invading iraq over a million have lost their lives with many thousands displaced.So accepting Lt Sadam was a war criminal in 1983 , who should be tried for the crime against humanity btn 2003 till now.

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86

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 16:07:26

Hey, Saddam dead at dawn: (81)

I've got a cartoon collection you've just got to see!

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87

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 16:12:25

I'll have you know that our wobble bottomed people got that way eating Italian. Yes, it's a small world.

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88

johnsilverstoneII,

new york 30/12/2006 16:14:19

szwed, sweden,

ebay maybe ....

but they were not.... shot on sight, tho' they could have been .......

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89

PSU1996,

US 30/12/2006 16:17:14

As a civilized society we should always take care not to destroy that which we cannot create.

We have a duty to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

That being said, we should never execute anyone. Remember, "Vengence is mine sayeth the Lord". However on the same token, it is important to protect the world from people like Saddam. Yet still that does not imply we need to execute him to uphold our sacred duty of protecting the weak. Nor do we need to torture and humilate. We simply need to lock them away from society and our mission would be accomplished. We are supposed to be better than these animals and I suggest that all of us hold ourselves to a higher standard.

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90

Rossw,

Berks 30/12/2006 16:21:34

Andrew

Strangely enough our wobble bottomed people are typically served deep fried battered Pizzas, pies, fish, chips and mars bars by Italians.

Is there an Italian drive toward global domination by serving the rest of us dishes of mass destruction served up within 45 mins, I think we should be told!!

Tis a indeed a small world.

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91

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 16:23:30

Hey Psu1996 (91):

The Lord will have his vengeance. It's our job to speed up the process of getting the criminals before Him.

I refer also to the sage wisdom of Ron White who said, "In Texas we not only have the death penalty, we've got an express lane on death row!"

And my own words of wisdom, "Electric chair? Try electric bleachers!"

The sooner scum like Saddam are put to sleep the better.

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92

Andrew P. Palmer,

Boston, Massachusetts, USA 30/12/2006 16:28:01

Well, this has been jolly. I must take my son to return bottles and cans for nickels and by booze for our New Year celebration. Happy New Year to all.

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93

the_truth,

30/12/2006 16:33:55

# 19, Loki

"Now the USA and Downing Street have a leader they can do business with".

Great sentence! the simple answer to this conflict!

By the way, I haven´t heard of any American lider who was hung due to the mass killing in Vietnam...

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94

Charles-Gerard,

Glasgow 30/12/2006 16:36:02

The hanging of Saddam Hussein will not bring back peace in Iraq and the normal live that those lovely people and friend where living before that stupid war...

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95

Maryb,

USA 30/12/2006 16:43:46

I believe that alot of people in our world today and in the past have committed horrible crimes...to kill someone because they have killed another is just wrong. I am glad the Saddam is no longer in a place of power but this was unnecessary. To sit here today and watch the news and read what you people have written is a disgrace. To see that you all can sit here and argue about things you can't control or change is such a waste of time. How about if we all could find a way to live is a world with no war...lol that would be nice. How about what our ancestors tried to teach us..treat others as you would like to be treated. Its amazing to me the true moral teachings that this era has lost.

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96

sheena,

Non PC World 30/12/2006 16:48:23

I have no doubt that Saddam deserved the death penalty but still find the whole process totally sickening and degrading. Unfortunately every news channel chose to show us most of the detail and I cannot get the images (of masked executioners, etc.) out of my mind. I have always thought that state sponsered killing in cold blood was abhorrent and somehow even less 'civilised' than the crimes that merit it. Perhaps if someone close had been murdered I would feel differently, but today, although I have no direct hand in this, nor could I have done anything to prevent it, I feel sullied and despair that this is the best response to evil that humanity can muster.

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97

Maryb,

USA 30/12/2006 16:53:14

AMEN Sheena. Well said.

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98

Oliver F,

UK 30/12/2006 17:03:03

Charles-gerard #96

"The hanging of Saddam Hussein will not bring back peace in Iraq and the normal live that those lovely people and friend where living before that stupid war..."

Wakey wakey charles-gerard. I hate to burst your bubble but there were very few "normal" lives during saddams regime before the war. The shia population of iraq, about 90% of iraqs muslims, were brutally oppressed by saddam and his sunni minority. Hundreds of thousands were tortured and murdered. Then there is the campaign against the kurds. Admittedly, Iraq is in chaos now but to attempt to paint a pretty picture of pre-war iraq is to totally misrepresent saddams regime.

I do agree with you that saddams hanging will not bring peace to Iraq. In the short to mid term I expect it to cause a huge escalation in violence unfortunately.

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99

J L K,

USA 30/12/2006 17:09:07

I read all these comments. Sorry but shame on you. Almost 3000 American Military have died to finally bring this man to justice. He had over 145,000 people killed. We have had several Presidents try to take this man out and could not. Now that we finally get someone in not afraid or we as a nation back him, you all want to condemn him for not getting it done fast enough and with out it killing or costing us the people of the USA anything. I am not happy with the President at this point in time. But I did vote for him and I bet many of you did also. He had to make a choice. That is why we voted him into office. So that we would not have to be the one's to do the dirty work ourselves. Bush is taking the blame for what choice's he has made. But remember most of us voted for him. Now let us stick together and get our military back home to there families. And get some peace back into our lives. Let us now go and seek out the man that started all this Bin Lauden.

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100

Stuart F.,

Burnaby, B. C. 30/12/2006 17:11:21

Saddam is gone and there are still things that he needed to be tried for. The release of gas on Kurdish populations and the indiscriminate killing of those he saw as " potentential " threats to his regime. According to some sources, he ran Iraq like a mafia god-father. He emulated Josef Stalin and had his enemies disappear.
For those who continually rail against Bush and Blair, remember this - these men be voted out of office through the democratic process. The freedom to express yourselves through the media, such as this, is safeguarded. In Saddam's Iraq, there was no such freedom as the media was State controlled.
Qouting Lord Acton, " Absolute Power corrupts absolutely."

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101

rpremo,

USA 30/12/2006 17:12:43

hey booster,It's MARINE CORP

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102

plok,

30/12/2006 17:16:01

The EN throws open forum on Saddam Hussein, yet censors comment on Michael Barrymore ! The despots & dictators on the EN editorial team are as much a threat to free speech as any tyrant.

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103

Fellow_Traveller,

ny usa 30/12/2006 17:19:04

i could write so many things but i'll keep it brief.

#1 i haven't "forgotten" about the two "SAS" dressed as "MUJ's" captured by some Iraqi police unit. if i recall , their car was loaded with RPG rounds, a launcher, explosives with batteries and timers, and other sundry "equipment". these SAS were dressed as "locals". these fellas were "rescued" by a british tank going through the wall of the police station. this raises SO many questions that i'll stop there.

2. Saddam has (now "had") been the CIA's man for nearly 40 years. Any one who doubts this is dangerously naive.

3. Iran already HAS old Sov-era nukes. the only question is how many, where they are; and if iran can 'deliver' any of them.

4. the coast of Iran has chinese anti-ship super sonic cruise missles sites. russian anti-aircraft missle batteries (state of the art and serviced by Russian technicians) dot the landscape of Iran already, with more being emplaced every week. why is this?

5. Should Saddam have been hanged? Clueless. try as i may, i cannot see anything good coming out of this sordid affair. i fail to see how muslims in general, can't help to be galvanized against ALL western governments/interests at some future point. maybe i suffer from ignorance. today's despised "war criminal" can oft times be tomorrow's "martyr".

6. something the people in my country fail to realize is that Each and Every time, some truly innocent person, dies or is some how otherwise desecrated in either iraq or in afghanistan; a billion muslims take very careful note. The gang rape of a 14 y/o Iraqi girl comes readily to mind. #2= the 64 y/o crippled guy in a wheelchair supposedly planting a mine or an IED being killed with WAY too many 'defensive shots fired'.

7. Iraq "obtained" an unknown number of nukes from some corrupt Soviet General 9during the fal

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104

Gildas,

Scotland 30/12/2006 17:20:00

Those who condemn Blair and Bush in the same breath as Saddam - and imply, or even overtly state, they should face the same fate - are devoid of perspective. To imply they are morally equivalent also reveals how unaware they are of the true situation in Iraq and, indeed in the Arab world, over recent decades.

The moral equvalence argument reveals a lack of both moral clarity and awareness of history. It reflects a postmodern inability to construct or use a framework of relevance in processing information.

There are many good reasons why hanging Saddam was the right thing to do.

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105

,

30/12/2006 17:21:03

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106

isah,

Saudi Arabia 30/12/2006 17:26:58

it is a painful news to hear that he will be executed but it his faith that he will die in that situation because of his wrongdoings.we are all die and it is fact , i am not a muslim but i believed in God,who is the almighty,King of all Kings and also i am a God fearing person.Why not put him in jail for the rest of his life,we have no right to take peoples life.

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107

busa01,

U.S.A. 30/12/2006 17:29:20

Once again we have to take drastic measures to rid the WORLD of another lunatic. It is unfortunate that the world has to point its fingers at the U.S. and blame them for everything from illegal invasions to being bullies. However , If thats the price we have to pay to protect the freedoms that we live under and the rest of the world doesn't than we will happily accept this. I only hope that mabe one day the rest of the world will learn to love freedom and their families enough to stand up off their gutless backs and protect them. Stop being cowards!!!

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108

ashamed of our US Government,

Western US 30/12/2006 17:30:10

The Iraqi prime minister's office said Saddam's execution was a "strong lesson" to ruthless leaders who commit crimes against their own people.

That comment above needs to be read and re-read by Bush! Bush... you should be next! You too have commited crimes against the US. Let's start by talking about how you stole your way into your position! I'm so ashamed that you are part of the United States. Although I'm glad Saddam is gone, Bush... you're just as bad. You know it! Your father knows it! He's a part of it too. I truly wish I could meet you and slap your face!

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109

bill, england,

30/12/2006 17:48:00

101. J L K, USA

"Almost 3000 American Military have died to finally bring this man to justice"

Did you vote for Bush so he could illegally invade Iraq and get rid of Saddam? Are you one of those like Condy who says the loss of American life and money was worth it? I hope not.

"Let us now go and seek out the man that started all this Bin Lauden."

What did Bin Laden start? Remember that like Saddam, he worked for the USA, so it is more accurate to say that you started it.

As far as getting troops home goes, I agree, the sooner the better. But it might have escaped your attention that the primary reason they are there is to sort out the mess that Bush and Blair and their gang have made.

In any event, a military withdrawal is fraught with peril. I hope that our so-called government for once listens to the military men and gives them the resources they need; most people have no idea of the dangers they face on our behalf.

How we can elect such rubbish as your Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeldt, Wolfowicz and Rice and our Blair, Reid, Beckett etc. to occupy the highest offices in our lands defeats me.

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110

barnrats2u,

Alabama 30/12/2006 17:49:47

To bad Saddam could not be excuted in the same manner in which he killed all his victums; chemical poisioning, being fed alive feet first thru a paper shreder, or other forms of torture he used. How about stoning? I like that one.
I too, would like information on the link that would shows the entire hanging. Anybody got that one?

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111

Rossw,

30/12/2006 17:50:45

Gildas

Those who condemn Blair and Bush in the same breath as Saddam - and imply, or even overtly state, they should face the same fate - are devoid of perspective. To imply they are morally equivalent also reveals how unaware they are of the true situation in Iraq and, indeed in the Arab world, over recent decades.

Nonsense, one carries out killings, or gives direct orders for killings to be carried out in his name, the other two hide behind lies and subterfuge and get other people to do their killing from a very safe and sanitised position in the chain of command. To make matters worse our politicians openly supported and armed Saddam during the period of his persecution of the Kurds. To me their is no difference in murder or murder by proxy when the state is involved, murder is murder.

The moral equvalence argument reveals a lack of both moral clarity and awareness of history. It reflects a postmodern inability to construct or use a framework of relevance in processing information.

What an astoundingly patronising assertion.
I have an expectation that politicians are given their mandate by the people and therefore should be guided by the will of the people and not lie and contrive to totally and utterly mislead and manipulate us into a disastereous conflict which has seen the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children. Those guilty of prosecuting illegal wars should not be above the law just because they are from a nation which claims some morally superior place in the world order.

There are many good reasons why hanging Saddam was the right thing to do.

Name them!! Even those in the Arab world who found him repugnant did not want him martyred.

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112

imran gulab,

pakistan 30/12/2006 17:55:16

i fully agree with isah .

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113

Lynne,

USA 30/12/2006 18:02:26

The death of Saddam helps to bring some closure to the families of the millions he tortured, maimed, and killed. No more rape rooms, no more acid throwing in the faces of women, whose families he arrested.

All the man had to do do was say IAEA come on in, look around to your heart's content, and all this could have been avoided. With the inflated ego of a brutal dictator, he played games, until it worked no more.

So far, it has cost us almost 3,000 to protect us AND you. Because if you all think, that this wasn't going to happen somehwere down the line in the next 5 years..then you do not understand what is happening in the Middle East.

Look around you..Iran is getting nukes for "peaceful" purposes (yeah, right) to destroy Israel, and every country in Europe is being invaded by Muslims, so too the US..

Let's just see how big the caliphate can be!!

In the meantime..It is my President you are knocking..He may not have had good intel, but he stands up for his principles, and he will get the job done..in spite of the politicians who are so called military experts..and think they know better than the generals or the Pentagon.

Say what you will, but it is one less brutal dictator in the world..which I am sure gives the others pause to think..me next?

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114

Ge45ge,

Michigan USA 30/12/2006 18:05:54

Now that Saddam is out of the picture and my God rest his soul for what he did or had to do on this earth to keep his country together, only God will be the final judge.
There is no place like home but there home has been torn from them and there lives are in a living Hell. It's so much worse off now than it was 3 years ago.
Why do we as people allow bullies to rule over other countries demsnding them to be a democratic society when in all truth we don't really know if that will work in the long run say 1000 years or more. China is not jumping at the bit to do that and I don't see anyone going after them.
This may be hard to take but we none Arabs need to get our tails out of a country that really don't want Americans or any other none Arabs in it and I can understand that, I would't want China over here telling me what kind of goverment I need to start. No disrespect China, you seem to be doing very well.
Terrorism is not going to go away, there will be terrorist as long as there are bullies trying to take there riches and power. they just want to be heard and respected.
Let them have there land back and have there civil war and when that is done we ask them to have a goverment of there choise but no slavery and to have respect for all there brothers and sisters or WE WILL COME BACK TO YOUR LAND.
Are men and women coming home will need help and support and good paying jobs.
If I have offended anyone I am sorry.
Love & Peace best wishes to all.

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115

bill, england,

30/12/2006 18:06:18

106. Gildas, Scotland

"Those who condemn Blair and Bush in the same breath as Saddam - and imply, or even overtly state, they should face the same fate - are devoid of perspective. To imply they are morally equivalent also reveals how unaware they are of the true situation in Iraq and, indeed in the Arab world, over recent decades."

I can't follow your argument. These three people, and others of their ilk, would stop at nothing to impose their ideas on others. They lie, deceive and murder like a donkey trots. Of course they should face justice.

In fact, Saddam has an excuse in that he has never lived in a democracy with all that entails, so his behaviour is understandable if not forgiveable. On the other hand, Bush and Blair know better, and they have betrayed us remorselessly..

"There are many good reasons why hanging Saddam was the right thing to do."

Would you like to give me some of them? Bearing in mind that he was a creature of the USA encouraged and supplied to kill, that his 'trial' was a farce, and that his demise will lead to many further deaths, I can't think of any.

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116

optimistic,

nyc 30/12/2006 18:06:45

Execution was a walk in the park for sadaam only because he was already stone cold,He needed to have time to grow a heart then have it reaped out from his chest. He needed to beg for mercy. Hope this is a wake up call for all the heartless,crude and ignorant folks out there plotting to do the unthinkable. Was justice served? maybe .only if i am sure he is in the eternal pit of fire!!1

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117

First one in, Last one out,

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 30/12/2006 18:15:32

I bet My M-16 he's not Dead

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118

bill, england,

30/12/2006 18:19:27

116. Lynne, USA

Your ignorance is showing again.

He was sentenced to death for the killings of 148 Shias from the Iraqi village of Dujail in the 1980s, when he was in the employ of the USA.

He was not tried for most of the stuff which you refer to; it would have taken too long, and the desperate departing Bush/Blair gang need to have something to show to partially justify their crimes.

Damn right it's your president and his principles I am knocking; just like Blair. We should be ashamed for letting these gangsters get into power and do so much damage to our countries.

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119

Randy F,

30/12/2006 18:28:14

I am like many others, I want to see proof of his death, even though I am a white Canadian , I hated the man with a great passion for what he has done.

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120

bill, england,

30/12/2006 18:46:39

122. Randy F

I'm afraid you will never have proof of his death, unless his immediate family confirm that it was indeed him.

You may not be aware that his wife and daughter said that the man on trial was not Saddam Hussein. As far as I know, they are in Jordan and unable to return to Iraq, as are many others of his family.

The whole thing stinks; the involvement of the inveterate liars the Bushblair gang means that we can't believe anything.

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121

neel66,

bombay 30/12/2006 18:47:11

the whole gamut is covered by all of u here. that saddam was guilty there is no doubt. but seeing a old man going to the gallows on live tv (like a much hyped nba game) certainly sux.
now wholl send mr.PREZand his crony TONY to the same fate for invading iraq illegally and throwing their own kids into the line of fire.many thousands hv already been killed and maimed in the name of WMD while mr.bush sipped tea at the white house .many more will now be killed as mr.PREZ does his rounds at his ranch.what a sham!!!!lets pray all this tomfoolery ends .lets hope sumone shows mr.prez what a business end of a hangmans noose looks like.

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122

Chris West,

Port Harcourt, Nigeria 30/12/2006 18:48:02

I think it is a right step in the right direction in making sure that all corrupt and deadly leaders are brought to book.
I also hope this will go a long way to sanitise the entire political system across the globe.

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123

Map the Monkey,

Bermuda 30/12/2006 18:52:30

This is how we good Christian folk operate today. We bombed the Serbs on Orthodox Easter. We hanged Saddam on the eve of the festival Eid, traditionally an occasion for clemency and forgiveness. And when we slaughter tens of thousands of innocents we brush it aside like our Swedish friend "szwed", declaring they are all terrorists, members of the Republican Guard, vermin . You name it.

All we believe in is our righteousness. That's our Machieavellian religion pure and simple. But whatever Saddam may have been, he died in dignity refusing the hood. And his final words were "Palestine is Arab". We have created a another Arab hero. Can anyone imagine the "farting" president (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15994.htm) of the US and his sock puppet in Downing St. behaving so stoically in similar circumstances? Are you kidding!

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124

t.r.p.,

30/12/2006 19:08:47

I am Glad that he is dead because he has ruined family all across the world and here. I know some people who have lost their mothers, dads, and family members. Doesnt that fell wrong inside. Mostly with the war not ending. Havent you seen the death just this month it is around 106 Dead. That just makes me said that someone could do that to around 106 family that cried when they went off to war and begged for them to not go and now they might be dead. Also that Im Glad that he will never come back, i think he is not even in heaven because of what he has done. He should be with the devil. He might have been exicuted but it was for a good reason. Because he has killed some of your family members maybe.... and that we all can almost live in peace.

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125

NanC,

USA 30/12/2006 19:10:31

I love the passion of words. So many egos are involved in war discussions. If we move towards forgiveness and be kind to one another, we'll create peace. Sounds simple, very hard to do.

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126

ivor,

Paignton 30/12/2006 19:11:50

WELL! some of the comment is suitable.
The fact is a monster got dictatorial power and abused it.
In America an idiot got democratic power and abused it.
The United Kingdom too has failed in its duty to democracy.
The Arab people have little choice. We in the western (Democracies) should hang our heads in shame. Freedom requires responsibility. WE FAILED.

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127

Delta6,

In canada 30/12/2006 19:14:48

How can anyone feel sorry for this tyrant?! He was disrespectful to the tribes in his own country let a lone the entire world. He used children for crying out loud as human sheilds!!! He tourchured hundreds of innoccent people. Now certian tribes of Iraq and Iran are calling his death an outrage?? Where is your common sence? This monstrosity, he's not a human; deserved to die and that's it. He's dead and gone so get over it. Let Saddam's death be a warrning to other terrorist tyrants....your days are numbered just like Saddam. Thank God for justice.

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128

neel66,

bombay 30/12/2006 19:25:14

bill and monkey......... way to go peeps. hope more of us in the so-called civilised society thought like you.

u can bet the "farting" PREZ is all about his dads blasted ego from 1992. hell be beggin all the way to the noose.
as for his smelly sock puppet fm 10 downing... he makes me laugh.

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129

Heaven,

pgh pa 30/12/2006 19:30:55

Sadaam could envelope the dark as he could the light. I feel he suffered from severe mental problems, biplar and schizo. He gave his people free heathcare and re-built schools, yet he felt that traitors should be punished to the extreme. He just became a old gray haired man that was caught in a hole in the ground like some wild animal. He was the godfather of iraq. In america mob movies are so popular and loved... i think its a double standard. Saddam son's sicken me. They only embraced the dark. I I REJOICED WHEN THEY WERE MURDERED!! What comes around goes around. Now how about BIN LADEN? ANYONE REMEMBER HIM???????????????????????????? GOD BLESS BECAUSE THIS WORLD IS COMING TO A END!

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130

eddiemiggs,

He was a heck of a guy! 30/12/2006 19:36:31

Just kidding. Yes he was a brutal dictator, but if you ask me he thats the kind of person you needed there. Lets face it those people are animals and they feared him, thus they behaved. When we removed him WE destabilized Iraq. Now they're running a muck over there and it will only get worse. We need to get the F**k out of there and let them blow themselves up.

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131

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 19:39:57

#114 rossw
#118 bill, england

Rats! You both beat me to it!

#112 bill, england

Looks like I'm with you again.

Why was the Bush administration against Saddam being tried in The Hague? Robert Parry thinks he has the answer:

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/123006.html

For many exposes about all the Bush family read his past articles.

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132

,

30/12/2006 19:47:54

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133

Pocket Dictionary,

30/12/2006 19:50:01

Saddam was an evil dictator who had nothing to do with 9/11 or al-Qaeda. Iraq was one of the few Arab countries that allowed Christians freedom of worship alongside Islam.
The invasion of Iraq by America and the coalition of the coerced and the subsequent capture of Saddam was only intended to bolster the presidency of the idiot son in the White House aka Forrest Gump. Now it has all backfired on Gump, to date 22,000 injured US soldiers and 3,000 dead, well Forrest what does it matter now about casualties, this is your last term in office.
Saddam should have been handed over to the Hague for a fair trial as a prisoner of war and war criminal, we always knew the outcome, it's a joke to believe that anything other than execution was planned for Saddam by Gump and Iraq.
Did anyone else spot the irony of the executioner informing Saddam that he would be applying a protective scarf around Saddam's neck? Protecting him from what?

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134

amsmom2njkz,

american in germany 30/12/2006 19:58:23

I am very uneasy about the decision to execute Saddam. I know he was a tyrant, and caused many deaths, and maybe execution was the proper punishment,but I dont think this was a decision made by Iraq, or its people. The United States Govt. invaded a country and then had its President executed. He did not recieve fainrness, as to the one imposing his sentence was from a different religious sect, and they have extreme hatred towards one another. One final question.....Could Saddam, or any other dictator,invade America or any other country and set them up a Govt(sure to execute the leader), then have the Leader of that Nation executed? Somone help me understand how the Leaders of the Free World can get away with this.

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135

civilian,

world 30/12/2006 19:58:36

Once upon a time , human used to save him self from animals. In course of action, he got weapons, slowly , thirst for power began. Humans started kill each other for power. Finally today we saw one human being executed. Do we really believe in so called power called god? Is he there? Where exactly is he when so many evil powers are heading world. Directly or indirectly , US also is trying to grab power on oil tankers. Its an open secret. Why exactly do we have this so called law. If one person kills another, he is being punished. And law can kill a person and if a person kills another its an unlawful event. Great justice. This where we so called human beings reached to a stage . I am not at all supporting. If law itself is being directed in wrong direction, then who is responsible for this? In this so called power game, the final victims are the people. We the people choose these so called leaders and these leaders do things according to their whims and fancies. Why cant we have a central world law court and get the justice done? Why it should be at the wish of one authoritative country. US Rulers should understand that they are making USA people unsecured. USA troops are doing exactly the same thing under the roof of army where are others are called as terrorists. USA own soldiers in this oil thirsty power game against IRAQ. How exactly one nation can interfere into another nations issues and dump its army? Where is so called UNO? If USA is really a powerful country then let it show it in some other way. Can USA recover back IRAQ to the same stage when it was 3 years ago? Saddam is a an evil in shape of human being. He is one of the evil forms created by god. If saddam is target , USA should have targeted him, not the innocent people. B n B pair had equally killed the same people by name of searching the nuclear weapons. They are also liable for the same type of execution. Are they ready for the same? Powerful countries should be showering helping hand to poor

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136

C Kipp,

30/12/2006 20:02:33

Kathryn

Sorry it may just be mee but cant the President of the USA go to war for 100 days without going to congress

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137

uncle sam,

USA 30/12/2006 20:04:33

I Firmly believe that Saddam was brought to justice for at least some of his crimes, and that now move on to bring oter terrorists to justice

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138

bill, england,

30/12/2006 20:06:40

134. Alec in Chicago

Thanks for the link. Like I say, Bush the gangster.

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139

ivor,

Paignton UK 30/12/2006 20:13:11

The thought has just come to me. Someone mentioned that the SAUDI's have control of the American economy. Recently Blair cancelled the rule of law in the UK to stop a police investigation into UK/Saudi corruption, (in the National interest.)
I seem to think of them as Shia's. Please tell me if I am wrong. If so, is it them that have instructed the two B***s to deal with this lunatic Sunni?
I could be so bloody wrong, but is our western democracy (that we are so keen to export) proof against financial control?
I suspect there is more to this than we are allowed to know.

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140

bill, england,

30/12/2006 20:13:23

135. EJ, chicago

I support the death penalty if due process has been followed. But Saddam's 'trial' was a farce, a foregone conclusion from day one.

Don't think for one moment that I don't think Saddam was a monster; I do, but just and civilised values haven't been upheld today. Fair trial my foot!

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141

Lynne,

USA 30/12/2006 20:14:35

Bill
Your ignorance is showing..the trials will be going on without him. The reason they did that trial first, was because it was the easiest to prove, but they said they will continue the other trials. The defense rested on the the second trial..but you can only kill a man once.
Too bad too, as I am sure there are many Kurdish families who would like to be the hangman for that atrocity.
Need I say more.. that I knew it would be you with the insults.

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142

bill, england,

30/12/2006 20:15:42

136. Pocket Dictionary

The protective scarf was not for Saddam; it was for the executioners and that lovely rope that might have been splashed with blood etc.

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143

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 20:16:25

#137

"Someone help me understand how the Leaders of the Free World can get away with this."

Because they have superior weapons?

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144

Lynne,

USA 30/12/2006 20:23:32

And by the way Bill..the US was not in charge of the trials, it was the Iraqis and their brand of justice..
I would love to know when a trial under Saddam was fair and just. He got better than he deserved. He had a chance to prove his innocence, but that being impossible, he has paid for his crimes.
Pulling women and children from their homes and shooting them execution style is hard to disprove. (60% of those found in mass graves, were women and children) Gassing 5,000 people also hard to disprove..among his crimes.
It seems the only unhappy people in Iraq are the Sunnis, because their benefactor is dead, and now they have to learn to live among otheres without having the perks of being Sunni, and taken care of by Saddam.

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145

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 20:25:15

#141 bill, england

You're welcome! They've found someone smarter than Bush - and better-behaved and better-bred and reared; (heck, he's even better looking):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3430481.stm

- - -

For what Saddam's death might mean for Iraq: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1229-04.htm

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146

bill, england,

30/12/2006 20:25:57

144. Lynne USA

Forgive me, but I thought that in the USA as in the UK a convict was only sentenced when due process was finished.

Seeing as how it was not a fair trial by any stretch of the imagination, and as how only one of the charges was dealt with, the sentence and exeution was unfair to everybody

I'm sorry you feel insulted; I am also insulted by our criminal leaders who portray our nations in the worst possible light.

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147

uncle sam,

USA 30/12/2006 20:26:44

There is not perfect government. We follow a democratic policy where in the majority has rule. That is not perfect. There will always be the right and the left. We will never get 6 billion people to agree the same. But I firmly believe that you should support the chosen leader regardless of your beliefs. We should show a unity some how.there is a lot of middle ground and no one can be all right, but if the majority agrees on certain issues then the minority should also support these same issues

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148

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 20:27:44

#147 Lynne

The US could have demanded that he be tried in The Hague - just where they wanted Milosovic (and got him). But then Milosovic had nothing on the despicable Bush family...

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149

bill, england,

30/12/2006 20:33:05

I am aware that it was an Iraqi 'trial'; it should have been held in the Hague but you folks in the USA don't accept international justice.

Sunnis form about 90% of Moslems. I don't think you will find more than a handful who support Saddam, and I'm sure that most of the Iraqi ones see him as anything but a benefactor.

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150

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 20:35:05

# 150 uncle sam

"I firmly believe that you should support the chosen leader regardless of your beliefs."

Even when he disregards the Constitution - that "God-damned piece of paper," as Bush calls it? Even when he goes about dismantling the Constitution? Even when he breaks laws whenever it pleases him?

"Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism."
- Thomas Jefferson
[By the way, Jefferson was a (half) Scot]

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151

St. Francis of Assissi,

in the kitchen stroking my pussy 30/12/2006 20:35:45

why hang the guy,why not make him watch Heart of Midlothian,mind you he would probably commit "hari kari"

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152

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 20:36:40

# 152 bill, england

I hardly need to post, with you doing the job for me! (You do it faster, too.)

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153

amsmom2njkz,

american in germany 30/12/2006 20:37:01

Uncle Sam,
I am an American and at NO time will I bow my head and agree with things I think are wrong, just to "support" the leader of my Nation. I am not a puppet, nor will I be treated as one. I am an American and I am supposed to have rights and freedoms.

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154

bill, england,

30/12/2006 20:37:58

148. Alec in Chicago

Thanks for the links. That N'kisi is more accomplished than most politicians!

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155

uncle sam,

30/12/2006 20:39:34

i do believe that congress supported Bush at one point

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156

kiwipom,

Auckland, New Zealand 30/12/2006 20:39:41

I am disappointed that the Iraqi governmeny opted to hang Saddam Hussein with indecent haste. Clearly they wanted this chapter closed as soon as possible.
The consequences of their ill-judged haste will manifest themselves immediately in heightened levels of violence destroying any hope of reconciliation in the 'short' term.
Better that Hussein should have been kept alive to be tried for all the other heinous crimes for which he was responsible. To provide closure for the bereaved and to ensure that history records the whole undeniable truth.
This evil despot may well have been properly despatched but this was not the time.

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157

St. Francis of Assissi,

in the kitchen stroking my pussy 30/12/2006 20:39:56

where are all the Scots this is full of Americans and English people,mind to be fair the scots are sick of the non-news of the once great newspaper,Scotsman in name only its now like a tawdry tabloid

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158

bill, england,

30/12/2006 20:39:59

155. Alec in Chicago

Keep at it Alec, I need a break!

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159

uncle sam,

30/12/2006 20:40:35

No one should give up his or her beliefs but we have to at some point find a median

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160

sajana,

al ain 30/12/2006 20:41:49

accorging to my point of view
they should have done this execution today
and i am 100 % sure
he commited crime but not as gr8 as bush
if saddam hanged then bush shud be burned to death

on this holy day of muslims they shud not hav done this hellish thing

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161

becca,

USA 30/12/2006 20:42:15

Something was finally done with him thank god now maybe we can get this stuff over there taken care of and get our troops home!!

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162

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 20:45:12

# 161

Hang on just a moment!

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163

ivor,

Paignton 30/12/2006 20:46:57

UNCLE SAM

Support the leader right or wrong?
As a child I was dive bombed and machine gunned.
No doubt Himmler and Goering shared your view, but at 76 I have bitter memories of the results of such doctrine.
That is why America's ignorant isolation frightens me.
You as a nation are too dumb for leadership.
Good kind and generous yes, but dumb.

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164

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 20:48:22

# 161 bill, england

Two links for you, Bill:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/29/news/america.php

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/29/opinion/edsaddam.php

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165

Miss H,

30/12/2006 20:48:46

Post 16 says that 'The death penalty should be in place for all those who think that a life is only worth a few years in jail as many killers do.'

OK so that means the entire British Cabinet should be hanged does it? After all they knowingly went to war on the basis of a lie and are therefore responsible for countless thousands of deaths including the deaths of UK service men.

Plus all the Tory politicians who previously did business with Saddam. Starting with Mrs Thatcher one assumes.

I guess there would be a lot of people who would quite like to see Maggie hang but I am not one of them, though I loathe everything she stands for.

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166

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 20:52:10

159 kiwipom

Righto!

Check out at least the first link I left for Bill, in my last post, #167

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167

uncle sam,

30/12/2006 20:52:49

If we do not start to stand together then we are all lost. As long as people allow the right and the left to keep us divided we will remain slaves to the system. I do not wish that people give up their rights and freedoms just to get along but, we can't keep on argueing among or selves. If we spend all of our time argueing about who is right or qrong then nothing gets done

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168

Lynne,

USA 30/12/2006 20:54:51

#151 Alec..It took almost 4 years of a kangaroo trial for Milosovic...and he died before they could find him guilty.

What a waste..of time and money

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169

uncle sam,

30/12/2006 20:55:08

I cannot believe that the majority of this panel believe we should stand alone and not worry about what is going on around us

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170

Wide Open Spaces,

Loveland 30/12/2006 21:00:32

I have been reading with interest some of the comments made here and had to put in my 2 cents.
Did Saddam get what he deserved? Yes I believe he did. Was the timing or severity proper? Good question, it will make him a martyr to some while others rejoice. Maybe he didn't have the WMD's that Bush thought he had but was he trying to get them? Yes and would he have used them? Yes, that has already been proven by his gasing of the Kurds in N Iraq and other places.
I dont envy Bush or Blair their jobs it has to be very difficult. Whether you like them or hate them just rememeber you have the right and you have the right to say so. Try that in the old Iraq or China or North Korea and see where you end up. That is why USA, England, Canada and other democratic country's are so great. There is a saying that I cant qoute accurately but basically says you can tell alot about a country by how many people want to leave! God Bless the west and democracy.

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171

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 21:01:09

18 uncle sam

Not all of Congress - but far too many fell for his lies. This administration doesn't just 'massage' intelligence - they manufacture it.

Even so, they authorized him to go ahead with military options if all other options had failed. So he pulled the UN weapons inspectors out of Iraq, declared their endeavors a failure because they had not found the weapons he knew were not there, insisted that Saddam Hussein had not been cooperating (lie!), and invaded.

Go read the story at the first link I posted, consortiumnews.com - and then a few of their earlier stories.

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172

amsmom2njkz,

american in germany 30/12/2006 21:02:35

Uncle Sam,
I for one do not want my country isolated or"alone", but with the grave mistakes of our Govt, we are isolated and alone. That is why I choose not to support my Govt right or wrong.

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173

Lynne,

USA 30/12/2006 21:03:12

#152..
Sunnis are only 20% of Iraq. Shiites are 80% and the Kurds are living nicely in autonomy..Get your facts straight.
And yes, the Sunnis thrived under Saddam, while they oppressed the Shiites.
That is the problem today. The Shiites outnumber the Sunnis. They (the Sunnis) are now living under a different kind of fear...the Shiites, who now have to learn how to live without feeling beaten down by the Sunnis.

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174

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 21:10:59

# 171 Lynne

I never said that sending him to The Hague would be more expedient. That is not why I advocated it.

What I said was that it ought never have been allowed to be run by/for Bush.

Why the rush? The charge is that a prime witness against Bush (and others) is no longer able to talk. Further, many on the Arab street see it for what it was - Bush's will.

Despite the delays and the cost, at least Milosovic wasn't made a martyr.

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175

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 21:11:50

# 173

That Saddam was trying to acquire WMDs has been shown to have been a lie.

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176

Sandra from San Antonio,

San Antonio,Texas 30/12/2006 21:13:01

As far as executing Saddam Hussein,I think it is wrong at this time,because of the emminent holidays for the Muslim people,and the fact that his death,at any time will cause a uprising.What should have been done,is that he should have been put in a cell with all the remaining people that he wronged.Now that would be justice...

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177

uncle sam,

30/12/2006 21:14:42

Alec in Chicago
That is interesting commentary but it is based on conjecture. If the Democratic party had any thing remotely close to proof of these allegations the printing presses would be on fire at this very moment. If you contend that Saddam was not involved in proccuring wmd, or upon recieving the wmd, using them. Let's just say i beg to differ

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178

Sandra from San Antonio,

San Antonio,Texas 30/12/2006 21:15:59

As far as executing Saddam Hussein,I think it is wrong at this time,because of the emminent holidays for the Muslim people,and the fact that his death,at any time will cause a uprising.What should have been done,is that he should have been put in a cell with all the remaining people that he wronged.Now that would be justice...

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179

Maryb,

USA 30/12/2006 21:16:01

eddie... lmao thats the funniest comment I have read today. "they" behaved so well that he had to torture and kill hundreds of thousands of "them." They are NOT animals they are living breathing people just like us. Just because they live differently then we do doesn't make then less worthy. I agree that we may have messed things up a little, but look at what they have accomplished in resent months. They will prevail and live life happily and in peace. They will learn that there is other ways to live life other than as you say behaving and being told what to do. Shame on you for being so cruel and inhuman. Your lack of humanity is disgraceful...shame shame shame

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180

uncle sam,

30/12/2006 21:17:07

I must also state that no one man has the power to
manipulate entire govts as easily as you guy feel Bush can do.

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181

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 21:17:32

# 173

As for our rights here in the US: Read the Military Commissions Act. Scary, scary stuff. Undemocratic and un-American.

The number of Americans fleeing is an interesting question. I am finding suggestions that that number is growing - and I may be one of them, if all goes well for me.

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182

,

30/12/2006 21:17:52

Comment Removed By Administrator

Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 255107, Article id was mapped to record!

183

rick_1965,

Midwest 30/12/2006 21:21:16

This is just another emotional appeal from a corrupt group of governments designed to direct attention from their true aggenda. When will people stop believing everything they are told by the media and government ? When we fall prey to our emotions we fall into our enemy's trap. Confusion , fear hatred are all tools of the enemy no matter where they come from. Awaken, question and consider the sources of the info that you recieve and use the amazing brains that you have been given to find the truth. Never stop searching.VOTE

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184

uncle sam,

30/12/2006 21:26:01

rick_1965
No truer words have been spoken.
The media is the single largest problem we have today and the politicians are using them to their advantage. Please consider your sources.

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185

Oliver F,

UK 30/12/2006 21:31:12

Ivor #142

The Saudi Royal Family/Government are Sunni muslims as is the majority of the country I believe. Not sure that they wanted saddam executed. Its the Iranians and Syrians who are mostly Shia muslims. Hope the information helps.

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186

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 21:31:47

# 180 uncle sam

Do a quick search; I've read a lot of articles about this administration's lies.

Read Common Dreams, Capitol Hill Blue, Free Internet Press, TomPaine....

Some of those very Democrats who supported the war have pointed out the lies they were told.

Google Ambassador Joseph Wilson, Iraq and WMD, Bush and signing statements - and read the Military Commissions Act, as well as the Patriot Act. Not conjecture.

Stop listening to Limbaugh, Falwell, and Robertson. By the way, the newpapers have been under pressure form the Republicans and their screaming mouth-pieces whenever they do publish something, yet they do, sometimes. Even the evening news on the major networks told some of the truth - but stories disappeared very quickly.

No, one man cannot manipulate a government. However one large group of people, well-placed and telling the lies that many of the people wanted to believe, can and do manipulate this government. We'll have to see what the Democrats do - and just wait for those investigations...

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187

Rossw,

berks 30/12/2006 21:32:09

#172 Uncle SAM

It is not about standing alone or together for that matter, it is about being seen to be fair and just when applying foreign policy.

How can the US be the worlds policeman when it blatantly ignores and subsidises a middle eastern nation which openly attacks it's neighbours and slaughters innocent men women and children without sanction? I am of course alluding to Americas unflinching support for Israel despite it's atrocious record on human rights and disproportionate attacks on it's neighbours in response to what in real terms are guerilla attacks perpetrated by a non representitive minority group within that country.

America desires control of the oil reserves in the Middle East whilst playing absolutely appalling, duplicitous politics with that region. To be seen as at least even handed would go some way to placate those more radicalised states who reputedly sponsor extremist terrorism against the West.

If America continues to only be seen to deliver its brand of justice to nations like Iraq and subversively interfere with the democratically elected regime in Venezuela, two of the worlds largest oil producers. You will become more and more isolated, as economic competitors such as the major European nations will sieze the opportunity to work with those oil producers wishing to trade in the Euro. This could ultimately change the whole picture in terms of world order given the US dependance on the Petrol return dollar.

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188

usa73,

USA 30/12/2006 21:34:43

Not sure this is justice! Just another level of injustice... I'm sad for all the victims of Hussein but also the victims of this war we are fighting for reasons only known to Bush. I suppose I should be happy that a person like Hussein is no longer with us but he will only be replaced by another. We are dealing with thousands of years of beliefs. you cannot make someone believe as you do and should not judge another because of how they believe. RIP Suddam, his victims and all the victims this war is bringing.

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189

Virgil,

Vancouver, BC 30/12/2006 21:42:04

I have read of Saddam's execution in today's Washington Post where it is reported that he refused to wear a black hood and that he died instantly.The comments from readers who followed this story were intelligent, articulate and knowledgable suggesting to me that a much higher standard of thought was given to the drastic deed that was carried out by the guilty in their attempt to divert guilt from themselves.Saddam was murdered for not playing ball with his murderers and the term "war criminal" has just become a euphemism for "world leader". The killing carried out under Saddam's regime pales in comparison to those of Britain, France, the US et al in their marches to colonize, brutalize and globalize "under-earthlings". Bush, Blair,Thatcher, Churchill, Hitler are just a few names past and present who are responsible as leaders for the miseries that have been thrown at humanity in our times. So did Saddam deserve to die on the gallows? The operative word here is deserve; and in the scheme of things past and present my answer is qualified,"Not in isolation"!

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190

chatmon consulea,

30/12/2006 21:45:10

IT IS REALLY SAD THAT MAN HAD TO DIE LIKE HE DID I DONT CARE WHAT HE DID IN HIS COUNTRY BUSH WILL HAVE HIS BLOOD ON HIS HAND GOD IS THE ONLY ONE THAT HAS THE LAST WORD SO BUSH NEED TO REMEMBER THAT

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191

ivor,

paignton 30/12/2006 21:46:52

Thank you Oliver.
I was it seems wrong, but this is because we cannot beleive a word our government says. Lying is unconstitutional but Lawyer Blair calls it spin and it seems our Parliament is prepared to accept this.
To the complaining Scot over the English and Yanks
taking over this Scotsman debate. May I remind him the English use the Scots for Government and fighting our wars. They are more prone to be action men than conversationalists!

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192

Map the Monkey,

30/12/2006 21:48:24

We kill thousands. It's called liberation. Saddam kills thousands. It's called tyranny.

Once all the celebrating ghouls have finished drinking the blood of Saddam, they might pause to reflect on the following:

Why was it suddenly more important to get to the bottom of a botched assassination attempt (a national passtime in Iraq) than to learn the truth about the Halabja horrors which have been on everyone's lips for nearly 2 decades? Would an examination of Halabja have shed light on the West's complicity with Saddam?

The other rationale for hanging SH is that every justification for invading Iraq has been exposed as a fabrication. All that was left was to show what a bad man SH was without exposing his long-standing "cordial" relationship with the West during the Iran-Iraq war. Bush and Blair can now point to the dangling corpse and say - "Look how bad he was. His own people executed him. Now you see why we had to invade."

Furthermore this was a trial where 3 defense attorneys were murdered and no cross-examination of prosecution witnesses was permitted. This would instantly be ruled as a mistrial in the West. But not in the Wild West where the farting president acquired his dubyaous values.

Our leaders and foreign policy are utterly desperate.

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193

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 21:49:20

uncle sam -

# 180
"If the Democrats had any thing remotely close to proof of these allegations the printing presses would be on fire at this very moment."

# 187
The media is [sic] the single largest problem we have today and the politicians are using them to their own advantage."

You can't have it both ways.

The politicians that were using the media most effectively were the Bush administration and the Republicans. They were so sleazy that many religious voters who had supported these phonies discovered - alas, too late - that they had been lied to and misled; and many switched their vote this last election in an effort to get some of the most unethical and most immoral members out of Congress.

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194

uncle sam,

30/12/2006 21:53:10

#190 Rossw
I must state the interest in oil or Petrol is not only a U.S. interest.
As far as Isreal. The Isrealis and Arabs will never find common ground. The U.S. support for Isreal has been great, even when their govt has gone in the wrong direction, Isreal's fight with the Arabs is over holy land not oil.

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195

LordWard,

SoCal 30/12/2006 21:53:19

166. ivor, Paignton

"You as a nation are too dumb for leadership."

Pray do tell, just what the heck does that mean? I agree with all of your other commentary in 166 except the quote above which I cannot fathom. Please explain or re-phrase, I ask.

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196

LordWard,

SoCal 30/12/2006 21:56:34

166. ivor, Paignton

"You as a nation are too dumb for leadership."

Pray do tell, just what the heck does that mean? I agree with all of your other commentary in 166 except the quote above which I cannot fathom. Please explain or re-phrase, I ask.

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197

C Kipp,

30/12/2006 21:56:50

I have had just about enough, yes things have gone wrong with this war and things should have been done better. But he KILLED and every one the KILLS should DIE and a lot worse than Saddam did and next should be Muggabe

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198

Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 21:58:44

# 195 Map

Indeed. Did you follow the link I posted? It's in # 134.

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199

uncle sam,

30/12/2006 21:58:55

Alec in Chicago
The fire I was refering to was the fire caused by speed in which the presses turned out th e proof of
the big republican cover up

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200

uncle sam,

30/12/2006 22:01:24

166 ivor
I chose to ignore the statement

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201

bill, england,

30/12/2006 22:04:03

167. Alec in Chicago

Thanks for those links!

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202

Roswell,

Brazil 30/12/2006 22:22:08

Saddam is not dead, the CIA just flew him here to Brazil this evening.

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,

30/12/2006 22:24:45

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eekwol,

UK 30/12/2006 22:28:48

Saddam was executed for crimes against humanity committed 25 years ago. He wasnt executed for anything else as all othe trials have been halted now.

Would those that support this execution please confirm whether, if another leader has committed crimes against humanity in the past then, they would support that leader's execution also? I am not naming names. Just want all the pro-executioners to answer this question.

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Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 22:30:53

# 202

Yes, I can read.

My response is, You can't say the media are the biggest problem and then turn around and ask why they are not publishing. You answered the question for yourself: The media are a problem - but mainly the news media. Read a few choice books:

The Case For Impeachment, by Dave Lindorff and Barbara Olshansky

Articles of Impeachment Against George W. Bush, by Center for Constitutional Rights

The Genius of Impeachment: The Founders' Cure For Royalism, by John Nichols

That should be a start.

By the way, "Petrol"? Just where is 'uncle sam' from?

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PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN,

USA 30/12/2006 22:34:22

Come on people.
So this is what we reduce ourselves to. Many need to remember that it was the Iraqi people that sentenced Saddam. It is so amazing that we all want to point fingers at this political figure or that political figure. War is war and people are going to die. All my life I have heard better safe than sorry. Americans had just been attacked and our President was standing up for us when he sent our troops to find the reported weapons of mass destruction. I admire that fact. I have many immediate family memebers that serve in different branches of our armed forces and they have all had a tour in Iraq. They all come home with the saddest stories told to them by Iraqi citizens. Those people were glad to see the Americans and the allies arrive. If you will all think back, they... the citizens of Iraq... are the ones that tore down the statues of Saddam.
I personally think the evil man got what he deserved.

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Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 22:35:20

# 204 bill, england

You're very welcome.

Did you follow the link in # 148? Was I over-selling him?

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Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 22:36:48

204

By the way, welcome back!

My meagre typing skills have been horribly challenged during your absence

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Marie, St Louis Missouri,

"The Hanging" 30/12/2006 22:36:56

Ok... I have read about how inhuman it is to carry out a sentence to someone that has been charged with mass murders. The point of the matter is not whether we agree with the sentence or not. The point is this... the man was tried and convicted by many. Many families are without loved ones because of his ruling. I have a son now over there that is fighting for the freedom that our presidents feels that they need and want. Who are we to cast the first stone? Are we without sin? Not only do I have a son fighting over there, but I am also the victim of a murdered child who's murderer has yet been caught. So you all tell me... What do you think I should do when my childs murderer is caught... kiss him or her on the check and say "I forgive you for taking something was and is so precious to me? Thank you for taking my childs life and any grandchildren that my daughter could have given to me? Thank you for taking the dreams of becoming a doctor that my daughter had?" I think not. This other monster will be tried and convicted by his/hers piers in the state that he killed my daughter and that state still has the death penelty. Every monster deserves what he/she gets handed down to them.

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Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 22:40:57

204 ivor

You may have missed it but about half of the electorate voted against Bush - so who is the 'average American'?

I do not equate you with the Blair you obvious detest. Please extend me the same courtesy. I said that Bush was a liar and a fraud before he formally announced the first time - and I was not alone.

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Lynne,

USA 30/12/2006 22:44:47

Marie,
first let me express my sympathies for the loss of your daughter. I too think that keeping them in prison is way to easy for their likes. They never thought of your daughter or your family before they murdered her. No one should have to bury a child, and I am truely sorry for your loss.
Second..Saddam got what he deserved..and Iraqi trial, and an Iraqi punishment..
You and your son will be in my thoughts and prayers, and hopes, that G-d is watching over him.

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JG,

Fife 30/12/2006 22:46:49

#212 Marie
I can't begin to imagine how terrible it must be to lose a child - and please accept my sympathies for your loss. I'm sure I would want whoever did it to be put down after they are caught too. But that has to be done after a proper trial and conviction, otherwise those who kill this evil person are just as bad as they are.

There are many questions still unanswered re this despot's trial (even if I will lose no sleep over his demise) and from what I saw on TV (and I have to confess I did not follow the proceedings very closely) the whole thing appeared shambolic.

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TF,

USA 30/12/2006 22:48:10

Is there truly video proof that he's dead??? Or was it one of his many "look-alike's"....... He still has so many supporters there, that I could see them trying to set him free, and fake a hanging.... If anyone has a link to the video, please list it.

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rick_1965,

Midwest 30/12/2006 22:48:59

Aren't we as citizens of these countries also to blame? Our election of dishonest candidates and allowing them to systemattically murder without being held accountable is shameful. Democracy is designed to function the best with involvement from it's citizens. Maybe the answer is within ourselves. Stand up for your beliefs and respect other persons ideas. Take responsibility demand punishment for dishonest politicians.We don't have to agree on all isssues. For a positve but not perfect outcome we must participate.

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Erica,

United States 30/12/2006 23:01:11

This is why the world is in shambles, look at you people oh our government is to blame. Right so it's our fault that he only killed thousands of people and it is all the governments fault. I have a good friend in iraq and you know what he told me, he wouldn't leave if the us pulled out , the troops are making incredible progress and you know what they signed up to be there, the military did not put a gun to their head and force them over. And to people in other countries BUSH is our president and that is why he is elected. Only two people have ever died for you, Jesus and the american soldier, just be thankful. One more thing I hardly doubt god is going to be angry with Bush, bush influenced but was not the one who actually killed hussein and the people hussein killed are gods people, hussein is like satan cast to where he should be. It just upsets me very much BUSH is our president not yours and if your little I hate bush tirade is over look at the evil person he has gotten rid of. God bless Bush and God forgive you.

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bill, england,

30/12/2006 23:02:48

Lynne (from the other closed thread)

The US "is counting on oil revenues to help pay for reconstruction of the country."

Take a careful look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_of_Iraq

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,

30/12/2006 23:09:26

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,

30/12/2006 23:11:59

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Ge45ge,

Cheboygan mi. 30/12/2006 23:12:50

173 loveland
Don't you know that soon the way things are going you won't be able to say what you want without big brother hearing you.
Can't people see that the one world order is making it's move and it's trying to disarm the world so it will be easy for them to take over. that's what happened in Germany with the Jews they disarmed them and it took one german to rule many and take them to there end.Now you may say what does this have to say about Saddam.
It has nothing to do with Saddam or Iraq or oil it has to do with changing the laws of the worlds most powerful nations and making the people's believe that to lose there rights is for the good of all mankind, therefore making harmony with the people and take controll with little problems. My Grandfather was a Jew in Germany and He told me never disarm yourself. He had numbers on his arm but he would not talk about them my Pa Pa died when I was 9 years old. I trust his experience and when I see or hear this country asking for other country's to disarm it scares scares the hell out of me deeply.
Why does only the most powerful want to have the bombs or guns when we know that they only, America was the one to drop two bombs on Japan on civilians.
I can't but worry about this country of mine and where it's going.
I wish with all my heart the people of this land could be the people to control it's destiny. My Father please take care of us and the worlds people who love you.
Love & Peace to all, We are not part of the worlds war mongers, they will burn in hell and for ever remember there sins aginst mankind and the lives of us all.

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,

30/12/2006 23:18:50

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221

Erica,

United States 30/12/2006 23:24:06

#206 IVOR, Get over it, only two people have died for you Jesus and the american soldier, where were you realatives in england when we hit normandy and for that point america is already a super power country, maybe you are the misinformed english person, it seems like Blair is the only one over there that really cares about ridding the world of an evil dictator, now if we could only turn back time and put saddam in england, and then watch your reaction when we didnt do anything. And just so you know the first election may have been botched but he did win the SECOND TERM free and clear. And if we are the public inempt americans then you england people are the public misinformed self centered people, who only think a man who killed thousands of his own people and ours didn't deserve to die. At least half the US was smart enough to vote republican twice in a row, because we support our government and reccognize a greater good for iraq and our people, rather than reading a one sided newspaper and making decisions. Its about pride in our country and faith in the government.

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JG,

Fife 30/12/2006 23:24:58

#221 Erica
First of all, please stop shouting!!!

Have you been celebrating New Year a bit early? Hogmanay isn't until TOMORROW night, dear!!!

I think everyone is sorry that so many American (and British too, remember) troops have been killed in Iraq. I doubt those families will be having a very happy New Year.

The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 - remember "WMD"? Please bear in mind that it wasn't only Americans who were killed in the Twin Towers either.

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Erica,

United States 30/12/2006 23:27:02

sorry i have very many people close to me in iraq and it hurts me to hear other people ruining our country, i cant understand why a man who killed thousands in your eyes doesnt deserve to die and if we hadnt killed him you know he would have just kept on going. Sorry.

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Lynne,

USA 30/12/2006 23:27:04

Bill, It's not going to happen...would be nice...but it belongs to the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds.
Try as you might...these things will not change.

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Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 23:29:16

# 221 Erica

Iraq did not attack us. Those people were based in Afghanistan.

Keep your examples. They are obviously from unreliable sources, if they have led you to believe that Iraq was connected to the WTC attacks - or did you misread that?

As for me personally, I read CENTCOM's newsletter.

You are entitled to love Bush - but that doesn't make him any less a liar, hypocrite, criminal, traitor, or idiot.

By the way, show us some courtesy:

Don't fill lines with the same word typed ad nauseum, and turn off the caps lock: shouting is rude - just like your idol Bush.

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Wally,

Arizona 30/12/2006 23:29:59

I like Roswell's comment in 205 - we really don't know if the man hanged was Saddam or not. He could've been a drugged up double programmed to play a role. Remember, the CIA took Saddam under their wing in the mid 1950's when Saddam was 18, the CIA helped him come to power and the US government gave $40 billion worth of aid to iraq in the 1980's. deception is normal. Saddam could be alive somewhere.

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is it me?,

30/12/2006 23:36:33

#200. C.Kipp. I agree.

I've been overwhelmed by the divisions in this debate and was at a loss as to how to get into it.

I'm saddened by the antagonism expressed between allies. Mutual co-operation against oppressors has prevailed in the past ,and I'm grateful for it. That's why I'm alive today. God bless our American Allies in WW2.

The Muslim states don't understand these divisions and see them as a sign of Western weakness. Try expressing an opinion in Saudi Arabia.

A bad man was hanged today; it's done. Move on. If anyone has issues with present administrations, OK ,raise them now, but don't give encouragement to extremist opportunists.

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Yane,

Melbourne 30/12/2006 23:37:14

I always feel a bit sick when they kill these people -- drug traffickers, tyrants, bomb exploders one and all. It always seems very quiet -- we won't be hearing from them any more and I'll be going where they've gone -- soon enough ...
But have a good New Year everybody I do love reading your posts. Even though yev shattered my belief in world peace. There was a showdown on these pages a week ago about a punnet of rasperries...

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ivor,

paignton 30/12/2006 23:38:33

Ouch! Alec of course you are right. If the election wasn't close the count could not have been fixed.

Reading the contributions I conclude that we need to take responsibility for our politicians. (It might save hanging them later)
I have recently become aware of a quotation from Edward Gibbon's "Decline and fall of the Roman Empire"
I do not know how it resonates in Amnericans ears but it clangs in this Englishman's ears

*The people regarded all religions as equal
*The philosophers regarded all religions as equally false
*The politicians regarded all religions as equally useful.

To me those phrases and our situation are familiar and alarming.

To those contributers who say it is wrong to kill.
May I point out that the command issued by Moses was not to murder. If he meant do not kill his succesor would not have been told to kill all including the beasts in the promised land.
Would these same protesters be prepared to disarm the armed forces or even the police?

To Uncle Sam I would say that my remarks do not include members of the armed forces. I too have served and forfieted my civil rights and accepted the duty to obey the last order.

On discharge however I resumed the duty to watch and call the politicians to account.

Now it is late for an elderly Englishman and I go to bed. Good Night and God Bless Christian and Muslim neighbour wherever you are in the world.

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Wally,

Arizona 30/12/2006 23:43:24

I like Ge45ge's comments in 222.

You know the one who made us is going to judge us. and he is no respector of persons. and he sees the lies being told. Being American will not protect us.

It amazes me also that some people (Erica) speak pro-war because they have friends in Iraq. I know people in Iraq too.

If you support the troops, then you should want to bring them home. They're engaged in unjust killing in Iraq, they're engaged in military enforcement of an unjust empire. They're also being exposed to the depleted uranium dust which can ruin their health and kill them. Remember, over 15,000 US troops from the first Iraq War have died from gulf war syndrome. They're being picked off 5 per day now, but when they get home the real death starts and continues over time. Why do people want this for their own friends & family? What a horrible effect it has on a man to be told by his own country's leaders to kill people unjustly. And what horrible payback to America will come from this unust war and others.

If you support our troops you should want them home. Zogby did a poll - 72% of of the US troops think policy should be changed to bring them home. But the blood-thirsty war-mongers want them to be sacrificed - and for what??? nothing.

A lof of american children were born with birth defects after their fathers participated in first Iraq War. This is not a good deal. this is human sacrifice.

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Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 23:47:13

# 232

Decline and Fall is indeed a great work.

Sleep well, Ivor!

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Alec in Chicago,

30/12/2006 23:49:02

# 233

On the nose, Wally - at least your political points...

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Bill, Dunblane,

30/12/2006 23:49:37

Erica,

'i cant understand' is the only bit in your posts that makes any sense.

Too much Fox news.

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James Donald,

Midlothian 30/12/2006 23:50:14

#221. Erica - "I love BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH etc...." - another Yanke headcase reading the Scotsman. Wonder why they bother - maybe trying to achieve spiritual domination over us lesser mortals.

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,

30/12/2006 23:51:24

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Wally,

Arizona 30/12/2006 23:57:25

here's the bad news from Amerika. A few days ago the US military released its plans and it was reported in the boston globe. By 2010 the US military may be 50% non-US citizens. Today according to Army Times of the soldiers on the ground in Iraq today almost 20% are non-US citizens. And now the US leaders have openly told the Americans in the Boston Globe article that this trend will just continue, many more foreign soldiers in the US forces. A fascist empire in other words is openly being built.

When non-US citizens are killed among the US forces they are not counted in the big death toll reported by pentagon. that list is always labeled 'American' which cleverly excludes many of the US dead.

The US army has purchased advertising campaigns in Mexico and in other latin american countries also to recruit people. citizenship is promised right in the ads they put into mexican newspapers. Latin American papers have noted that US Army recruiters are in mexico, central america & some south american countries.

Rome went from 10% foreign soldiers in its army to 90% foreign soldiers in its army within 100 years. It seems the US is on a faster path.

Already the Americans are incapable of controlling their own government. 85-90% of the democrat voters are strongly anti-war. Yet all the top democrat politicians are pro-war. Many polls show that 60-65% of the Americans want to pull the troops out of Iraq. but in a vote in the US congress about 1% of the congressmen wanted that. The voting machines will not allow 3'rd party candidates to prosper. Yet both political parties will not allow candidates that represent the Americans.

The greatest of the nations is sinking into fascism and tyranny. The whole world should fear of this.

The Americans should not be concerned about being loyal to the ones who rule the American nation. Instead they should be concerned about loyalty to the one who made us. Fear not the one who ca

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,

31/12/2006 00:00:06

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JG,

Fife 31/12/2006 00:01:26

#238 Alec
I try to do my bit!! I thought maybe Erica had been imbibing a bit early - probably the only reasonable explanation for her rantings!

As someone else said, she is entitled to love Bush if she wants to. Perhaps an eyesight test would also be in order!

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Alec in Chicago,

31/12/2006 00:02:25

# 239

Wally, can you give a source - preferably a link?

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240

,

31/12/2006 00:03:06

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241

,

31/12/2006 00:04:20

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,

31/12/2006 00:05:14

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uncle sam,

31/12/2006 00:06:52

Wally
you appearently ain't from around these parts are you?

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Jockyw,

31/12/2006 00:07:22

Bush more than b-LIAR needed a result.....

But where is Bin ladden?

Even the best trained troops with the best weapons can't find him. The US ha sthe best weapons money can buy but they sure don't have the best troops. Scared & young - who fire at anything then ask questions unlike the British forces who ask before engaging.

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rpb,

31/12/2006 00:09:09

why does the BBC only have a west of scotland opinion page?

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,

31/12/2006 00:11:01

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Wally,

Arizona 31/12/2006 00:11:04

http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts190.html

Unlike bush Paul craig Roberts is a real American conservative. He was a high-ranking Reagan administration official who actually authored the tax-cut bill of 1981. He is hated by the Bush neo-cons of course. Listen to him, he tells you what is in Amerika today.

in christian terms I'd explain it like this - the people of the greatest of the nations have been turned over to idolatry and a reprobate mind. As it says in Romans 1:28 a people once greatly blessed by the creator have turned from his ways and thus are unable to think clearly even.

But we will persevere and we do know our fait which we will await patiently. A remnant will survive and the whole world will be blessed as a result. We are not the ones in charge. But the one who made us is. The rule of man is being discredited. The people are being given a choice and each will choose his own fait.

Pride goeth before the fall.

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uncle sam,

31/12/2006 00:11:34

#202
I'm from Georgia

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Wally,

Arizona 31/12/2006 00:18:01

Regarding bin Laden - of course we know that is a family where they have multiple wives and many many many children, cousins, etc. But one of the Bin ladens was the main financier of george W Bush's oil company that he owned in the 1970's. And another of the Bin Ladens was partial owner of the carlyle Group which Bush family also shares ownership in. The washington Post famously published a photo of George HW Bush at stockholder meeting in washington DC the weekend before sept 11, 2001 where senior Bush sat in a chair next to the Bin Laden business partner.

The US government suupported both Bin Laden and Taliban for many years. The last paycheck from US taxpayers to Taliban government was cashed in August of 2001.

They might say they got bin Laden, but it is not likely that they actually will.

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250

rick_1965,

Midwest 31/12/2006 00:20:17

221 Erica
Let me clarify. First I never put the blame on any certain government nor specific pres or pol. That would be exposing my views, Something that usually leads to pointless arguments that I don't think are productive in this type of setting. Not many will change their minds and that probably isn't as important as learning and considering other ideas from people that may have different views than myself. What I was saying is: as citizens of democratic countries we are to some extent responsible for the actions of our government. No matter the country we live in. After all, we voted them in and they are representing us and our country with actions and deeds.
Also, I believe in god, and believe that he is the one and only god. The god of love,peace,patience and understanding. The God that loves believers and unbelievers equally. The god that loves S. H. as much as he loves his son that died for all. I believe he will judge and punish the guilty. I try to leave this job to him as I could never be as fair a judge as him. I believe in faith.I cannot possitively prove that my faith is the correct faith. I don't feel that my God would want me to hate someone that does not believe as I do. I think that people who use the name of god to promote hate and histeria are everywhere in these times. These people are evil and sometimes so slick that they can trick even the most faithful believers that don't use their teachings, faith and brains to sort the truth from the lies. I am one who was tricked. I believed that all that cry out the lords name and claim to be his are not. Some are fakes that trick people for their support, votes , money and lives.

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truce,

NY 31/12/2006 00:29:29

I believe what has happened has been a result in the stupidity of ones mind therefore that being said I am in disbelief we would bring a hanging back but it so much more cruel than to just simply have a needle shoved in the arm and them to go to sleep. well to each they're own belief.

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uncle sam,

Georgia 31/12/2006 00:32:34

truce
We did not bring back hanging. SH was tried and hung in Iraq

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253

Wally,

Arizona 31/12/2006 00:37:46

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/200...

here is the key article I spoke of. But this is just their way of letting us know what they've been doing for years. Army Times had an article about it and said that of the troops on the ground in Iraq actually fighting almost 20% are non-US citizens. There are units where most of the soldiers don't even speak English. I've personally seen US Army personnel who are foreign sourced at the local Army post.

This is nothing new, the Boston Globe article only brings it out into the open. Many deceived Americans don't know anything about it, watch them go into denial. As I said latin American newspapers have talked about it for years. US military recruiters stationed in foreign countries recruit foreigners living in those foreign countries. People in the Mexican & Nicaraguan armies are recruited. Some of them death-squad members trained at Fort benning previously.

Eventually, they'll be brought to Amerika and used to police the Americans. Like they did in New orleans. and the stupid flag wavers can't even see 2 feet in front of their faces.

A US Army report that inspired the Boston Globe article says that by 2010 it is quite likely that 50% of US forces will be non-citizens. The payoff for these people (if they survive the wars and the depleted uranium and the vaccines) is that they'll retire with good pensions in American suburbs and bring their families to America.

America is facing massive immigration. Both democrats & republicans favor this though 80% of Americans do not. The Heritage Foundation analyzed the legislation that Bush supported this year on immigration and proclaimed that it would mean 100 million new legal immigrants in just 20 years.

America as we knew it is now gone. The stupid flag-wavers

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Oliver F,

UK 31/12/2006 00:42:57

Erica #224

"#206 IVOR, Get over it, only two people have died for you Jesus and the american soldier, where were you realatives in england when we hit normandy"

Since you decided to bring world war II into this erica let me correct some of your revisionist history. You hint that england and the allies would have been lost without the USA entering the war. Let me remind you that the USA didnt come to europes aid militarily till you were attacked by Japan at pearl harbour.

Until that point you were happy to give the UK huge loans to buy american arms to fight the war. The US contribution to the victory in world war II were and still are greatly appreciated but you didnt "come to our aid" till you were attacked at pearl harbour.

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,

31/12/2006 00:54:47

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Wally,

Arizona 31/12/2006 00:58:56

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=42531&am...

look at this analysis on this page. common farmers murdered by an Apache helicopter. and they do this in our name with our money. and many Americans gloat over this, I've heard them.

It is said that they hate us for our freedom. But the government that coined that slogan is taking away our freedoms. and they hate us for what our government has done.

http://www.nola.com/frontpage/t-p/index.ssf?/base/news-5/...

When the payback comes, when the world finally hates America very badly and works up its nerve and its capabilities to invade America we will be decimated. but we will turn to our creator and he will protect us. and he will descend, and he will judge the people, and he will bring his Kingdom here.

For all of the hatred generated towards America, I tell you that our nation plays a special role, it is a special nation and it is a role that we have not chosen, nor can we avoid.

The people of the world are in the same situation as the Ameicans, in that they too will have to choose that they will recognize and follow and worship the creator or else the day will come that they will not be able to live any more. We are all in a time of testing, a time of trial, a time of choosing, and later on our time of judgement will come.

The American nation the greatest of the nations is but a lynch-pin for these events. When its destruction comes, then you will see.

I not only speak of the prophecies in the christian bible, but the prophecy spoken by George Washington at Valley Forge. The one who made us is not inactive or dead, he is alive and well and in charge.

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Wally,

Arizona 31/12/2006 01:07:35

for that first link in 259 - you have to scroll up and see the Youtube videos above that actually analyze and explain exactly why it is that these are just poor common farmers being wasted. There is no actual evidence they even have weapons, and yet they're wasted. and this video circulates all over America where proud flag-wavers gloat and laugh over it.

killing & death & destruction - these are bad things. When they are brought forth in an unjustified and unprovoked manner, then they are especially bad.

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rick_1965,

Midwest USA 31/12/2006 01:12:28

Oliver
I am sorry and hope that you don't think that all Americans are puffed up with pride so that cognitive functions have almost completely stopped. We are very diverse in customs and ideas. The tide is turning and many are coming to the truth. Progress seems slow but is picking up speed.
And about history, we are taught that our country has made damned few mistakes. The wars and conflicts in our nations past are studied and romanticized into our youth at a young age. History until recently was largely reported from a White mans view point. Particular issues and varying views are not many when discussing slavery,Indian,working conditions of the poor and other such issues. They make the problems seem like they where almost magically solved or just leave them out when telling about our past.

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259

Wally,

Arizona 31/12/2006 01:19:57

Oliver F in 257 - you are correct about WW2 history.

erica is a bit over the top in 224. She starts out talking about Jesus and then she speaks for violence and killing which Jesus was opposed to specifically. Jesus did say that he who lives by the sword will die by the sword. at the end she says "Its about pride in our country and faith in the government." Anyone who's read bible knows that nothing good comes from the people. and that governments of men never provide justice. and that when the people walk away from god, then god puts tyranical governments that are evil in charge of the people. Take a good hard look at hollywood. Do you really think that this ugly culture spreading around the world is good? It is rebellion from god. and true to his word he has given us a tyranical government that rules today.

But the good news is that this rule by man will be wiped away and the Kingdom of Heaven will be built here on earth. and that the people will be separated, some welcomed into this kingdom and some barred from it.

As I've been explaining - pride goeth before the fall. Proverbs 16:18. Erica shows a lot of pride.

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260

Map the Monkey,

Bermuda 31/12/2006 01:22:30

Erica:

You are insane.

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261

Gildas,

Edinburgh 31/12/2006 01:26:29

114 Rossw
118 Bill, England
134 Alex, Chicago

'To me their is no difference in murder or murder by proxy when the state is involved, murder is murder.'
The point of what I said was that there is a difference between the two. There is plenty of evidence to prove that difference. Your comments reinforce my point that you can't differentiate. I agree with you that to sex up the dodgy dossier was wrong. Maybe he (Blair) even believed all the intelligence evidence. But on that basis you accuse him of murder. Despite the mistakes the invasion of Iraq was more a well justified attempt to rid the world of a tyrant who did despiccable things directly leading to the murder of around 1m people (not inlcuding those who died from starvation or the wars with Iran); who shot and tortured people who didn't agree with his views. It was also a well justified attempt to halt the advance of Islamist totalitarianism.
I do apologise if I patronised you. However your response underlines precisely why I challenged your moral equivalence argument. Again you make assertions of equivalence based on your own presuppositions. For example, what makes you entitled to call the war illegal? A declaration of a Security Council or the full UN which includes representation of a bunch of tyrants. Not a lot of moral authority there.
There was a moral imperative to intervene. Just because the justification used (in part) turned out to be false does not mean it was not right to do so. Let me say again, those who say so display a lack of moral clarity!

Bill, your suggestion that 'Saddam has an excuse' is just one reason why I suggest you have failed to put recent events in a sensible perspective.

And you ask for good reasons why Saddam should be put to death. Here are just 3 to be going on with:
1. He deserved it. Life for life. 2. Pour encourager les autres (tyrants). 3. To re-establish the rule of law administered by the state in I

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262

Alec in Chicago,

31/12/2006 01:36:16

# 256 & 259

That's it, Wally.

The Heritage Foundation? Joseph Coor's monster, loved by John Ashcroft and Rush Limbaugh? (Isn't Coor a member of the Council for National Policy?) The Heritage Foundation takes credit for much of the Bush administration's agenda.

No doubt these people are happy to see Saddam gone - and with him any first-hand testimony about the Bush family (etc.) and their criminal acts.

Jesus? The Bible? Now you're babbling way off topic. By the way, check to see how many of the crazy End-Timers back Bush.

As for Roberts, Reagan's administration stank - all of it - including the economics: look at that debt! However, Roberts does think that Bush should be impeached - and I like his comparison of Bush's supporters to brown shirts. (Many fo those same supporters are in or back the Heritage Foundation - like Ashcroft and Limbaugh.)

Religion should never be tied to politics - it's un-American.

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263

Alec in Chicago,

31/12/2006 01:46:52

# 264 Gildas

What are you talking about?

Saddam's government was not Islamist - it was secular. (The Islamist militants hated him for that.)

I have made no moral equivalence argument - ever.

I have never stated that Saddam Hussein ought or ought not to have been hanged. I said that he ought to have been tried in The Hague.

I never asked why he ought to have been put to death.

I never made any one of the three arguments for not hanging him that you attribute to me.

My name is Alec, not Alex. (You sound like an American, there: they almost never get it straight.)

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264

Oliver F,

UK 31/12/2006 01:49:54

Rick #261

"Oliver
I am sorry and hope that you don't think that all Americans are puffed up with pride so that cognitive functions have almost completely stopped. We are very diverse in customs and ideas."

Do not worry Rick. There are many americans I have argued with on these boards/forum posts. Some I have agreed with, many I have not. We have discussed many issues and often the discussions have become heated. I can say with all sincerity that although these discussions have become heated and sometimes, regrettably, come down to name-calling on both sides, mostly I have been of the view that the americans I argue with are genuine in their beliefs and have the right intentions. Well, mostly LOL

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265

,

31/12/2006 01:50:04

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266

Alec in Chicago,

31/12/2006 01:59:36

Correction: I questioned the advisability of hanging him, and making him a martyr.

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267

Wally,

Arizona 31/12/2006 02:39:42

Alec in 265 - I did not mention the Heritage foundation to shill for them. They are a very pro-republican pro-bush group. they are also well funded and employ a lot of lawyers who systematically read and analyze all legislation under consideration, then they advise the congressmen on the legislation. No group in Washington does this as much as the Heritage Foundation does.

and when they analyzed a few months ago the immigration legislation that Bush supports they showed that that legislation would mean 100 million new legal immigrants in 20 years. this is the exact opposite of what 90% of the bush supporters want.

So it goes in Amerika. The people are deceived en masse. Uncle sam - take note.

The Democrats & republicans are tweelde-dee and tweelde-dum, two sides to the same coin marching hand-in-hand for the real rulers who are not public figures. The media is bought & paid for by the real rulers and brings nothing but deception and petty conflicts among a divided and deceived people.

what does it say in Hosea 4:6? It says that his people are destroyed through lack of knowledge.

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268

Wally,

Arizona 31/12/2006 02:44:06

There's a lot of great comments some interesting funny and passionate on this board here. Thanks to Scotsman for allowing it on their server.

The nature of the truth and the nature of the people is such that when seeking the truth they find controversy among themselves first.

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269

infidel in a strapless bra,

ann summers 31/12/2006 03:14:02

OK - I cannot be bothered reading them all - but now that one of the freaks that oversaw death in the middle east is dead - can we now see the hanging of Blair and Bush too, just to she we are not racist?

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270

Alec in Chicago,

31/12/2006 03:14:53

GILDAS

It seems I was guilty of sloppy posting. When I agreed with rossw and bill, england, I only meant to go so far as to say that it is not a statement of moral equivalence to say that Bush is also a liar and a criminal, and that he ought to stand trial.

Bush ought to stand trial, not because of comparisons to or contrasts with Saddam Hussein, nor because of him or in spite of him; but he should stand trial for reasons unconnected with what Saddam Hussein did or did not do.

George Bush illegally invaded a country, instigated a civil war, caused death, injury and destruction - and gained nothing for the people he was 'liberating'.

I only meant agreement with the statements that arguments against Bush are not necessarily arguments from the stand-point of moral equivalency - nor do they necessarily indicate a lack of clarity of thought. My perspective is fine. Bush was gunning for Saddam Hussein. He sought an excuse to invade. He lied the country into war. He ought to face trial. Just for what he did.

And I took issue with the condescending tone of your post.

As for the rest of the arguments in 114 and 118, well I did not intend for my concurrence to be taken as a wholesale agreement with every detail of those arguments. If you read my other posts, I think you'll see.

I do apologize for the sloppiness of that posting.

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271

Bill, Dunblane,

Bored rigid. 31/12/2006 03:16:37

Gentlemen,

Could you look at the title of the forum you are posting on?

This is not really the place for US bible bashers and others to discuss specifically US policy / politicians / groups etc. except where it is relevant to the question in hand.

However, no doubt you'll carry on.

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,

31/12/2006 03:21:21

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273

amsmom2njkz,

american in germany 31/12/2006 03:28:51

I have been reading the posts that I have missed....and I have to say, if it was ALL Iraq, and American Govt had nothing to do with it,(Saddam's Execution), then why are we still in Iraq? If the Govt in Iraq can handle a man such as Saddam, we are no longer needed. right? As for the people posting about having friends family in Iraq, My husband was there twice and I can tell you he wasnt happy to find out not only the American public was duped into this war, but so were they.(The American Troops). Was Saddams life worth 3000 and counting American/Allies lives? If Iraq had been soley responsible for the execution of former President Saddam then I would respect their decision and maybe it wouldnt bother me, BUT Saddams blood is on the hands of the American Govt, and that my friend offends me.

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274

Mark j,

31/12/2006 04:57:22

re 212
Marie,
I wont offer sympathies to you. I know all too well what you and your family feel. I lost my brother Paul 31/2 yrs ago. He was strangled and beaten to death then dumped in a wooded area. We arent over his death, my parents as a shell of who they once were, the wound is deep and time seems just to ease the sharpness of the pain.
I offer you this, im no bible thumper. But within my faith and conscience I have come to a degree of acceptance of life and fate. I will never condone any violence, any act of violence is unjust. Personally, i believe Alberto Saucedo who murdered my brother ruined many lives including his own. He got 13 yrs and will be deported. I refuse to see him as a monster, this gives him more power. I refuse to feel anything for him, i wont entitle him with forgiveness nor ill will. Forgiveness is not for me to give. Justice wasnt given our family, he was allowed to cop a plea bargain. I hope they find the person that murdered your child, they have to answer for their crime. I still dont think more death added to that of my brother's would make me feel nor my parents feel better. Inspite of this horrible reality we have seen beautiful acts of kindness and love from unexpected sources. God still teaches us grace and love for humanity. My brother is in God's hands so is the life and journey of Alberto. I wish i could extend my arms to you from this keyboard. Peace to you are yours. As for Saddam, the world makes many of these kind of folk, simple truths are corrupted for the sake of greed and power. Find the powerful, and the source of wealth and greed isnt far away. Do not believe for a moment that the USA and UK act out of common goodness for humanity when they bomb civilians. There is oil there. Saddam was a rabid dog killed, inhumanely.

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275

Faramars,

Iran 31/12/2006 06:03:01

#221 Dear Erica
Your idol " Bush " himself is a criminal and must be tried in a competent court and executed like Saddam .he is responsible for killings of thousands of people in different countries and particularly responsible for killing of american soldiers in Iraq and Afghanestan . Bush is a criminal and a threat to world . the evidence is wellcoming !!!!! him when he travels to a foriegn country even in euroupe. As a friend i recommand you to choose another idol . Bush is not entiteled to be worshipped . best wishes ,happy new year

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276

Lynne,

USA 31/12/2006 07:19:03

#278
Before you blame Bush, look to you own gov't for supporting terrorism, both financially and with training insurgents. The whole world knows these foreign insurgents are trained in your country and smuggled into Iraq and Afghanistan.
Your country is duping you..when you scream Death to America, and Death to Israel..the reality is, that the President of your country is one sick animal who wants Armageden, and he wants to lead the way.

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277

Alec in Chicago,

31/12/2006 07:34:45

278

I saw that your president was booed out of a university auditorium - even though it was nearly packed with bussed-in supporters. Iranians are waking up, finally.

Look to your own; Bush is for the US to tend to, first.

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278

Lynne,

USA 31/12/2006 07:35:52

Alec...How many more resolutions was the UN supposed to pass before it was "legal" to invade Iraq?
You seem to forget there were 17 already.
As far as a civil war goes...the Sunnis and Shiites have been at it for years, and the Kurds were gassed by your friend Saddam, so please...take a look at the whole picture.
I take issue that this war was illegal..It wasn't..The UN as usual was ineffective, and as for WMD's EVERYONE got the same intel and believed it. It might have proved wrong, but then again, Saddam refused to let the IAEA investigate. That was all he had to do. The whole war could have been avoided if he let the inspectors in.
The Bush bashing is all one sided with the same old claims.
The troops want out, we don't belong there etc. Well, the troops, believe it or not feel they are doing their job, and want to finish it, so they don't have to go back again. You only hear the bad...never the good, about what they are accomplishing. Take the time and write to them, watch them being interviewed, maybe you will learn something. And don't forget this is a VOLUNTEER Army, there is no draft, and each and every one of them knew what they were doing when they signed on the dotted line.
There was no gun in their back.
They get tired of seeing and reading the elite media's stories..they want people to know what is really happening all over Iraq...not just Baghdad.
You should be supporting them .

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279

Faramars,

Iran 31/12/2006 08:22:10

Dear Lynne
thank you . please verify one case in which iran has supported terrorism .

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280

Kenny A,

Scotland 31/12/2006 09:08:05

No 4, Getting close, not a public toilet but a pigsty perhaps, filth should rest with filth.

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281

kpm,

manchester 31/12/2006 09:12:42

alas saddam, your real trial now begins in a higher court

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282

Kenny A,

Scotland 31/12/2006 09:14:14

274 Well said Bill

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283

JayJay,

Glasgow 31/12/2006 09:15:19

I can only reflect that we really truly are to blame for all of this. We back and arm Saddam, then stick him on the gallows for crimes committed when he was our chum. We attacked him over still missing WMD, then decided that it was for crimes against humanity. When are we going after the thug Mugabe, the variety of thugs in Darfur, the very execution friendly chinese and the remainder of the planets thugs and despots? Why single out Saddam? Oh yeah, he did 9/11!!!!!!!!!
Watching events unfold, I have very regrettably concluded that Iraq, and indeed the wider Middle East is no place for us whiteys, trying to enforce our brand of democracy on the people. How on earth is today's Baghdad any better than it was under Saddam? He might have been mad and bloodsoaked, but he at least knew perfectly well that the country was a giant civil war waiting to happen. Why didn't Dubya understand that when his father was perfectly aware that Iraq would explode post Saddam.
We need to leave the Middle East well alone. It is for the people there to decide when the time is right to see the clerics and despots for what they are. Sure we can help if asked, but we intervene at our peril. We just have no idea what makes these people tickand whatever our best intentions, it is inevitable that our troops will very quickly become the enemy.

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284

Finnking,

Tampere, Finland 31/12/2006 09:23:19

Lynne.

Your posts (here and others pages) are refreshingly articulate and it's obvious that effort has gone into their construction. However, you seem to arguing from a set of false foundations.

The UN: It simply cannot be regarded as the last say in the legality of war. It has NO mandate from the people of the World. It was formed from the League of Nations (controlled by the pre-WWII terrorist state-UK) and is now controlled by the US. It simply cannot function in the way it should when some rich and powerful western 'democracies' have a veto. Go on the UN web site and look at the use of vetoes.

Iraq Oil: True, the oil is not being pumped directly to the USA. However, the US now has (or is still trying to create) a client state that is an important member of OPEC (itself and illegal cartel: illegal in terms of the neo-liberal economic practices promoted by US government for other economies (not their own)). The US now controls the FLOW of oil from Iraq. That gives power to the US.

The €: Saddam converted Iraq's reserves into Euros. The US has changed it back.

Iraq WMD Claim: You say that that the intel was there to support this claim. Where/who exactly? The people who were responsible for searching in Iraq ten years prior to invasion was the UN (Blix etc). They found nothing, repeatedly. I read US newspaper web sites at the time and this was reported but you had to really search for it. Your own Condi Rice, just before 911, clearly stated (scoffed) that Saddam was no threat to anyone. Here's the clue: Not one of Iraq's neighbours regarded Iraq as a threat except Israel and ALL of Israel's neighbours regard Israel as a threat.

WMD2: Why shouldn't a nation state have WMD? With US/UK/Israel stomping over the world it is perfectly rational to regard them as threats and collect WMD as a deterrent.

WMD3: Saddam gassed the Kurds: Okay, so did the Iranians. The Kurds have been treated badly by ALL tyrants i

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285

Finnking,

Tampere, Finland 31/12/2006 09:41:21

Erica:

Oh dear. Bush's 2nd election was even more rigged than the first. Look at Ohio voting, read your own journalist Greg Palast on the subject. God, even the Russian observer left the States in disgust at how the elections were being run! Clue: When a man who grew up under a Stalinist regime is appalled at the corruption of a US election - WARNING!

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286

Helen,

31/12/2006 09:41:43

I have never visited any country which has the death penalty. When I go shopping I boycott products from countries which have the death penalty. Countries which have the death penalty cannot call themselves civilised. It is a sick and evil way of snuffing out lives without offering the opportunity for atonement. In the USA for example, a high proportion of those executed are black, poor, have mental health problems...it's just barbaric. People would be better campaigning for a world wide end to the death penalty than bleating about how Saddam Hussein got what he deserved. It would have been better if he had been kept in prison for the rest of his life to reflect on the enormity of his crimes.

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287

True Brit,

31/12/2006 09:54:12

Just a quick addendum to #287 Let us remember that it was the British Government that FIRST gassed the Kurds. Who was brought accountable for that?? No one, because the British were the victors. Let us remember just how the British used poison gas (Mustard gas) against the Kurds in the early 1900s - a point in fact if my memory of history serves me correct, it was the first time in warfare history that such a weapon was used from the air on the general populace - perhaps as an experiment??, whey were only wogs after all.

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288

Finnking,

Tampere, Finland 31/12/2006 10:14:35

The main article has a highly selective (propaganda) list of 'key dates'. Some additions:

1982: President Ronald Reagan decided that the United States "could not afford to allow Iraq to lose the war to Iran", and that the United States "would do whatever was necessary and legal to prevent Iraq from losing the war with Iran."

1988:the cruiser USS Vincennes shot down Iran Air Flight 655 with the loss of all 290 civillian passengers.

1994:The U.S. Senate Banking Committee released a report in which it was stated that pathogenic (meaning disease producing), toxigenic (meaning poisonous) and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq, pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce. It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."[40] The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Anthrax Bacillus) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding that "these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."

To help the Scotsman's (so called) 'journalists':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War#_note-10

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289

Gildas,

Edinburgh 31/12/2006 10:25:14

Alec 266 et all

Apologies for spelling your name wrong. I am in Edinburgh, Scotland, though.

Certainly Saddam's regime was Baathist and not Islamist. What the two have in common is totalitarianism. A weak response to one acts as an encouragement to the other. Islamism thrives on, and gains sustenance from, what it perceives (I believe correctly) as a weak response by the West. And Saddam was not above making use of, or providing a haven for certain Islamists where it suited his purposes. This 'response of the West' issue is just one more of the many reasons why it was right to invade and liberate Iraq.

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290

eekwol,

London 31/12/2006 10:27:47

It wasn't only Saddam that was guilty of the 1982 crimes against humanity. Those that helped him during that time should also be tried for conspiracy to murder. Iraq's government should therefore demand the exradition of all those that supported Saddam in 1982. First up for extradition is Baroness Margaret Thatcher. Extradite her to Iraq and if she is guilty she must die by hanging as well and a video of the execution must be taken to let everyone in Iraq know she too has gone. I would then like a picture of Thatcher's dead body to make sure she has gone. I am sure Blair would be "opposed in principle" to Thatcher's execution but I am also sure that he would respect Iraq's right to have the death penalty. Next up for the gallows, Donald Rumsfield who met Saddam during the 1980's. I would like a photo of his dead body as well.

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291

bill, england,

31/12/2006 10:49:10

293 Eekwol

The list gets longer.

You are right; Saddam was the fall guy (sic) for the USA and others' policy of using all means to defeat Iran and their Shiite sympathisers in Iraq..

He was hanged for helping his friends, and they are also culpable; let's see them on trial.

Let's see democracy and the rule of law prevail; after all, that is our excuse for murdering millions of people in the Middle East isn't it?

Time to sit back and reflect on our crimes, and work out some way of making atonement if we sincerely want peace in the Middle East.

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292

,

31/12/2006 10:57:34

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293

Rossw,

berks 31/12/2006 11:05:38

Gildas

You seem to have this extremely disturbing view of the US as a kind of arbiter for truth, justice and moms apple pie. So you think the US spent 100's of $billions invading Iraq to stop the the march of Islamic totaliterianism so that the world can become a safer place to live for the wider populus????

Do you also believe in Santa and the tooth fairy (sorry kids)? You are joking arent you? America invaded Iraq and maintains an totally inequitous policy against the Moslem for the selfish purposes of supplying gas to it's electorate for less than $2 a gallon and to maintain it's hugely dispraportionate armed forces(petro return dollar) which is the reason it can maintain a dangerously misguided policy in the Arab world.

Attacking a nation state which has posed no threat to your nation or any of the surrounding nations except when encouraged by the US to so do (Kuwait,Iran) to maintain your highly skewed policy is illegal and in short morally reprehensible. If the US was truly the arbiter of truth and justice there are many more dictators and genocide merchants plying their evil trade in the wider world, why not deal with them? Because it is not economically viable!! No profit to be made from attacking Mugabe or stopping the Rawandan genocide or intervening in Somalia.

As for me hating the US nothing could be further from the truth. I taught summer camp in the US as a student and made some great frienships, I have worked for a number of US companies and travelled extensively across the US making the aquaintance of some wonderful, warm and generous people.

I despair for the US under this morally bankrupt regime who have ridden roughshod over the US constitution for their own selfish ends under the guise of patriots. I am merely disenchanted with the US as I am with those running the UK at this time.

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294

bill, england,

31/12/2006 11:09:00

295. Non!!, East Britain

Don't forget that Saddam was given the go-ahead to invade Kuwait in 1990 by his friend the USA.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27c/057.html

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295

ROXY ROOLS,

31/12/2006 11:18:20

Look..he's deid an that's that...best thing for him.Reap and you will sow...
Meantime, please excuse me... i have 'black bun' and shortbread to make.and if ye a' have nuhin better tae dae wi yer time, awa an learn the wurds o 'auld land syne' ready for the nite..noo mind hangin has been introduced for them that dinna ken the words or link their arms too early.
cheerio an a the best.....
RR

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296

Rossw,

berks 31/12/2006 11:23:41

Roxy Rools

I think you need to learn the words, to that end I have supplied them plus translations;

AULD LANG SYNE

Words adapated from a traditional song
by Rabbie Burns (1759-96)

Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
And never brought to mind?
Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
And auld lang syne?

CHORUS:
For auld lang syne, my dear,
For auld lang syne,
We'll tak a cup of kindness yet,
For auld lang syne!

And surely ye'll be your pint-stowp,
And surely I'll be mine,
And we'll tak a cup o kindness yet,
For auld lang syne!

We twa hae run about the braes,
And pou'd the gowans fine,
But we've wander'd monie a weary fit,
Sin auld lang syne.

We twa hae paidl'd in the burn
Frae morning sun till dine,
But seas between us braid hae roar'd
Sin auld lang syne.

And there's a hand my trusty fiere,
And gie's a hand o thine,
And we'll tak a right guid-willie waught,
For auld lang syne

Meanings

auld lang syne - times gone by
be - pay for
braes - hills
braid - broad
burn - stream
dine - dinner time
fiere - friend
fit - foot
gowans - daisies
guid-willie waught - goodwill drink
monie - many
morning sun - noon
paidl't - paddled
pint-stowp - pint tankard
pou'd - pulled
twa - two

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297

Rossw,

berks 31/12/2006 11:26:41

Roxy Rools

Bye the way, all the best to you as well.

I am sure it was a simple typo, but could not resist the urge to publish the lyrics to our Bards wonderful Hogmany standard.

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298

Royster,

31/12/2006 11:36:07

I'm against the death penalty solely for the reason that an innocent person could be executed. However, no doubts here.

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299

ROXY ROOLS,

31/12/2006 11:41:50

THANKS..was just an error....did not mean to abuse the vernacular or otherwise...would never dare insult the bard especially having been able to recite 'TAM O SHANTER' and others from schooldays

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300

Rossw,

berks 31/12/2006 11:41:57

Royster

Surely being against the death penalty means that there are no exceptions?

We cannot be selective whether we got him bang to rights or not?

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301

ROXY ROOLS,

31/12/2006 11:46:47

ROSSw
sure it was just a simple typo...but it's HOGMANAY

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302

radical pink,

fife 31/12/2006 11:52:11

It seems to me evil thrives when good men/women do nothing. The hanging of Sad-dam had little to do with due process and will do nothing to bring closure to the victim’s families.

Nor will his execution lessen continued crimes against humanity, if anything his hanging highlights the abuse of power permeating political office on a global scale and if this form of justice is seen to be right then there was room for a mass hanging.

At the very least this should be a warning to the rest of the world’s murderously despotic individuals to stop what they are doing...but of course they won't!
Power is such a beguiling addiction for the soulless and as long as the money Gods are in power, they will at every turn overrule peace, love and harmony.

Capturing and imprisoning everything and everyone within spitting distance of an imagined reality that only the mad and imbalanced share. Hell, I feel really sad that we still rely on violent retaliation and vengeance to right wrong and that we the ordinary mortals of this beautiful planet have somehow given control of our lives and liberty to the politics of greed and control.

My wish for 2007 is equal access to life and an awareness that awakens the majority to STOP living the lies and conflict created by elected politicos of inequality, death and destruction. People must assume power over their own lives, live according to their dreams, expectations and what they know to be right.

And since most of us know right from wrong we don’t need overpaid inexperienced individuals in government leading us up all the wrong paths, we need people of experience, vision and integrity to sustain this wonderful world, not the reverse.

2007 will I hope be the year of learning for the unwilling and my non astute prediction for 2007, is that nature will fight back. Climate change of the weather kind will be the absolute least of our worries…..the outcomes will lend to painful learning… but….evolve great

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ACM,

Glasgow 31/12/2006 11:55:09

It should have been a much slower and more painful death. It should have taken him at least 48 hours of suffering to die.

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Finnking,

Tampere, Finland 31/12/2006 11:58:17

Radical Punk: Thank you.

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Rossw,

berks 31/12/2006 12:00:19

Roxy

Wrong again!

Hogmany

Hogmany is a grand celebration of a new beginnings which happens in the days following the Winter Solstice (shortest day of the year). This is the time of year when the days gradually begin to grow longer. In summer our days are so long that sunset can be as late as 10.30pm, and the night's sky is more a navy blue than actual black. In winter through the days are very short, with sunrise about 8am and sunset at about 3.30pm. The lengthening of the days would have been a lot more exciting back in the times of candlelight and no television, so perhaps this is why Hogmany is so well loved (well that and the amount of alcohol that is consumed!)

The meaning of Hogmany
Why is Hogmany so important to the Scots?
Hogmany Traditions
Traditional Greetings
Auld Lang Syne – a history
Auld Lang Syne -- the full song - and its translation!

I also include two pieces from the late Georgian Book ‘William Hone, The Every Day Book, 2 Vols. London’ the first may not be as interesting as the second to Scottish readers:

1.January 1 - New Years Day
2.Hogmany.

This second piece ‘Hogmany’ places a different slant in interpretation of the Hogmany concept – and though the tenor is archaic it is well worth the read.

What's in a word? The meaning of Hogmany

The origins of the word Hogmany are the subject of a great deal of debate. Some believe it comes from Haleg Monath, meaning Holy Month in the Anglo-Saxon language, and other's claim it's derived from the Gaelic oge maidne, meaning New Morning. Still others believe it may also have been a variant of the Scandinavian words Hoggo-nott and some think it is a French phrase inherited from the days of the Auld Alliance Homme est ne' (meaning "man is born"). It is also thought that the festival could have been brought south by the invading Norsemen or that it has it's origins in Celtic religion. Still others believe

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Finnking,

Tampere, Finland 31/12/2006 12:14:07

Then let us pray that come it may,
(As come it will for a' that,)
That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear the gree, an' a' that,
For a' that, an' a' that,
It's coming yet for a' that,
That man to man, the world o'er,
Shall brithers be for a' that

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Rossw,

berks 31/12/2006 12:21:05

Finnking

Nice sentiment!!

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SylviaAnn,

Australia 31/12/2006 12:22:39

What a sad person Erica is,who was so cruel as to brainwash her with the word Bush and shouting it on top of that.9/11 was sad we do not doubt that,but who could have executed such a brilliant plan of attack they had it down right to the last minute,you cannot deny that,USA did not have a clue what was happening to them,someone invading them.I do not think that Saddam should have been hung he is now a martyr to his people,he should have spent the rest of his life in jail not molested just left to stay in jail for the rest of his life,which could have been a much longer punishment.Now he's just dead.

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MissC,

Edinburgh 31/12/2006 12:42:18

I saw a cell phone video clip of it on myspace my blood kinda went cold..

There was alot of shouting and you even saw his face once he was hung, pretty sick!

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Ken 1,

Glenrothes 31/12/2006 12:53:18

Excellent.....a bit too quick....but excellent

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Sprout,

Dollar 31/12/2006 13:22:25

So he is dead, should we be surprised? The Americans needed him dead because as a former 'friend of America' he knew too much.

He was killed because the USA needed him dead

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Doooogie,

Lincs 31/12/2006 13:44:53

JLK said: "Almost 3000 American Military have died to finally bring this man to justice"

Oh really?? Is THAT the reason they were sent? Is THAT the reason they were told they were being sent? "Right chaps, listen up - our mission is to bring this Hussein chap to justice. Thousands of you will die in the process, but keep your chin up, that's it...."

I always (perhaps naively) understood that the official reason for sending troops to Iraq - oh yes, sons and daughters of people from nations other than the US too - was to assist the nation of Iraq to move into their own form of democracy. I'd no idea we'd sent thousands of young men and women to their deaths in order to watch CNN show the noose around his neck.

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ian k,

Edinburgh 31/12/2006 13:47:08

It would have been best to keep him locked up he hated that more than anything

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Oliver F,

UK 31/12/2006 14:04:58

Faramars #282

"Dear Lynne
thank you . please verify one case in which iran has supported terrorism"

I guess lynne has been too busy answering other posts to answer you faramars so let me answer your question for you. Six little words will do for a small starter; Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Iraq insurgency.

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Finnking,

Tampere, Finland 31/12/2006 14:06:51

A poem for you all but mostly for my Mum in Edinburgh-

There’s mair sincerity in a shovel,
Than onythin’ made tae kill.
The plight o’ the spade’s handler,
The maist sincerest still.

We hear the dogs o’ war declare,
Democracy and Freedom!
But we a’ ken whit they a’ ken,
Thir’s nae dignity in dein’.

Oor bairns are sacrificed for what?
The birkies’ 40 shillings?
These clowns, fae a’ nation states,
Are the only yins a willing.

We the masses just canny compete,
Wi’ the cuiffs, the guns an’ tanks.
While we play the game within their rules,
And pay oor tax in thanks.

Their rules include the most divisive tool,
The Painted Lines of State.
Within these zones, the schools spew oot,
The principles of hate.

The barrier o’ a Painted Line,
A Flag, or an Anthem, or a Nation.
Are no a part o’ Nature’s way,
But keep us in oor station.

There’s nae sic a thing as poverty,
In the hied o’ a man whae’s free.
Gie him shovel, dirt and seed,
And then just let him be.

Dinnea vote nor pay the tax,
Ignore the calls for bairns to dee,
Instead o’ the gun pick up the spade,
Then, Brothers, we’ll a’ be free.

Stephen McKay

Happy New Year Maw!

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sheena,

Non PC World 31/12/2006 14:25:30

Spent a terrible night last night. Unable to sleep and only the yanks posting. I read them all but was unable to form a response. How do you argue with people who believe that either a) Bush is all powerful and therefore always right, or b) God is all powerful and therefore always right, or America is all powerful and therefore always right.
Glad to return to cynical, Scottish normality today, where we do not believe in anything, even ourselves.

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Lynne,

USA 31/12/2006 14:29:29

#278

Let's see..Ahmadinejad wants to wipe Israel off the map, he is now making nuclear weapons, and yes I know we have them..(but I trust our men more than Ahmadinejad to NOT push the button).
Bush is not responsible for the death of American soldiers in Afghanistan..the Taliban is..being trained in Pakistan, in Iraq the foreign insurgents are responsible for the deaths of American soldiers by IEDs supplied by your country and Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs...get your facts straight..

Iran is not sitting on the sidelines while they suppost Hamas, and Hezbollah either.
The fact that he denies the Holocaust ever was, shows your heads have been in the sand for the last 60 years.
As far as I am concerned, he and his crew of clerics are an abomination to humanity..

So, before you bash Bush..look homeward.

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Gildas,

Edinburgh 31/12/2006 14:34:27

Rossw #296
Yes I do believe removing Saddam Hussein (at great cost in $s and US and British lives) was to make the world a better place. The old chestnut you serve up (that they just did it for the oil) does have a grain of truth in it. The Middle East is at the heart of the bulk of world strategic issues at the moment. But if you can raise your thoughts above your belief that it was just for the oil, you might like to consider the following primary issue. Islamist totalitarianism is as threatening to the world as was Stalinism or Nazism. Saddam, whilst not a true Islamist, was certainly a destabilising influence on just about everything you or I would call worthwhile in our country and in the Middle East. (OK I am making I generous assumptions). I fear your effective approach is to roll over and put your paws in the air. Thankfully, Churchhill, Solzhenitsyn and many others had, in the teeth of much appeasement advice, much more clarity of vision.

I'm not here to defend many things which are wrong , some of which lead you to detest - OK, if not the USA then current US policy. But the issue with which I entered this discussion is still the issue. Your comments show little ability to put these world events in a rational perspective. For example, your comment:
'Attacking a nation state which has posed no threat to your nation or any of the surrounding nations except when encouraged by the US to so do (Kuwait,Iran) to maintain your highly skewed policy is illegal and in short morally reprehensible' So the US is morally responsible for Iraq invading Kuwait! And that responsibility absolves Saddam from the consequences of his invasion! Perspective is required.

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Finnking,

Tampere, Finland 31/12/2006 14:40:43

Lynne, Who supports the most violent state in that area of the world? The state that even bombed an Iraqi nuclear power plant? Israel has invaded countries in the region something like 20 times. They couldn't do that without HUGE US support. There are arseholes on all sides; the bigger the power - the bigger the arseholes.

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Lynne,

USA 31/12/2006 14:49:46

Please..I'm not here to defend Israel, but idf you want to go into it..here goes..
Israel is a SMALL country, who from the day they got statehood were invaded by 6 Arab countries..
Every war was started by other Arab countries..the problem is Israel wins..so that makes them the bad guys.
We support Israel because it is a democracy in the Middle East...so far the only one.
People here complain Saddam was hung by the Iraqis on a holiday. What about the 6 day war and the Passover bombing of a hotel? Same thing. Did you complain then? Did any of you?

You have selective memories or amnesia..dpending on how you want to look at it. And that is all I will say for Israel on this post..Because I am sure I will be called a Zioinst, Israel Apologist etc., and that is not for here.

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Oliver F,

UK 31/12/2006 14:52:48

Finnking #322

"Israel has invaded countries in the region something like 20 times."

If you check the history finnking you will find that often Israel was attacked first provoking those wars.
Israel is surrounded by hostile nations and has the right to defend herself against attack despite the fact some people expect her to just sit and accept attacks without retaliation.

Let me ask you finnking, if sweden were to start sending suicide bombers into finland and to fire rockets into finland, wouldnt you expect the government there to respond? If so, why do you expect israel to be different?

I wouldnt use your words but I agree there is wrong on all sides. I just wish there could be peace in the middle east but I dont see it happening anytime soon.

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Lynne,

USA 31/12/2006 14:57:34

#322

Please tell me what 20 times Israel invaded in the region. They are still being rocketed while there is a cease fire agreed to by both sides. So who are YOU kidding. I'm sure that Israel will not turn a blind eye to it much longer either. Because a cease fire in that area means only the arabs can fire on Israel, but Israel is not to fire back!!

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Lynne,

USA 31/12/2006 14:59:31

#322

oh yes..you can thank Saddam for the suicide bombers on Israelis...he paid them or their families $10,000 to become a suicide bomber..
Don't get me started!!!

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TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 31/12/2006 15:22:51

Have some of the posters not heard of concision and precision - their comments ramble on and on, are repetitive, and to read all the more lengthy postings would be a day-long chore

Unless you are an "expert", "specialist", or have the gift of writing smoothly and elegantly in an amusing yet knowledgeable way, can we dispense with all this over-written, shrill palaver of the typed type?

I will never forgive Sadam for three reasons (but I have others):

1. The fires of Kuwait where his retreating troops set aflame the oil wells of that invaded country and caused an ecological and business crisis of huge dimensions;
2. The gas attack on innocent Kurds that resulted in the death of blameless children, women, and old men and the resultant photos of the carnage that shocked AND sickened the world and
3. His insane, evil, and downright devilish torture methods used on anybody who opposed him or even made a polite suggestion on how he could better control situations.

For these three reasons, and many, many others, I have no pity for him and although I oppose the death penalty in this case it was full justified. May Sadam Hussein, despot and murderer, ROT IN HELL!

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Oliver F,

UK 31/12/2006 15:24:41

Timothy #327

"Unless you are an "expert", "specialist", or have the gift of writing smoothly and elegantly in an amusing yet knowledgeable way, can we dispense with all this over-written, shrill palaver of the typed type?"

In a word, no. Its called freedom of speech. Even the proletariats have that now, you know?

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Wally,

Arizona 31/12/2006 15:24:57

For RossW in 296 - regarding Somalia: Somalia is oil-rich although it may not be being pumped much out of ground yet. and the invading force that is advancing now in Somalia is a US puppet force.

Do not under-estimate the US' ability to manipulate events in many nations. they only use US troops as a last resort.

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Kenneth,

31/12/2006 15:25:19

History is written by the victors. Eight months of special studies that result in, "The war is not going well", provides the victors a third party with which to distance themselves from the biggest loser of all of this, Dubbwa. Look back in history and the same tactics are used over and over. Big guy screws up. Big guy finds sacrificial lamb. Big guy sheds responsibility. Big guy obfuscates. Confusion sets in. White Knight, (one recently passed on), arrives to clense and move on. Issue is relegated to tired itellectual discussions. Issue is forgotten.

Vietnam took twenty-five to thirty years and now is a revered touch stone. The big issue is how long from now will it take for the big exit? Is it permitted to use the Scotsman to organize and run a pool? It will take at least a year or two. The pool might be in the millions. The next big issue is how long will it take for this colossal screw-up to become a revered touch stone of nationalism. It took over eleven years in Monty Python's Olympic Hide and Seek game for the seeker to find the hider.

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Kenneth,

31/12/2006 15:31:54

#325 Lynne

These issues of rocket attacks cloud the real issue. The Palistinians were turfed out of their lands in 1948 with the aid of the West. Millions of Palistinians live in hell because of this. Isrial puts itself above human justice for all by making their plight more important than the plight of the people they robbed. Until the robbed receive some sort of justice those that cannot forget will fight on. Cannot forget, must not forget, sound familiar.

The only thing that is worse is that millions of us profit from our distance by keeping the area in turmoil by not allowing a cohesive Islamic union to maintain the aircraft carrier "Isrial", there so that we can consume more. People die for it there. Here we pay more at the pump.

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Oliver F,

UK 31/12/2006 15:41:06

Kenneth #331

To claim the rocket attacks cloud the issue is to miss the point. If there is to be any peace between Israel and the Palestinians then there need to be genuine negotiations and concrete moves towards the two-state solution.

A crucial part of negotiations are trust and the ability to stick to agreements. For the past month or so there has been a supposed ceasefire yet for the past month the palestinians have been violating that ceasefire by rocket fire and the Israelis have shown remarkable restraint.

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330

Finnking,

Tampere, Finland 31/12/2006 15:42:55

Lynne and Oliver: It is really hard to argue with such ignorance of historic facts. I grow tired and weary of trying to explain the benefits of reading beyond the mainstream press. Read, search. Wht do we 'assume' that Israel has the Right To Be? Talk to the indigenous peoples from that area, I have. They(Muslims/Jews/Christians) will tell you that they didnt have 'enemies' before the creation of Israel. The last act of agression from Israel on Lebanon? We were told, repeaedlly, that it was because a Israeli soldier was kidnapped. No mention of the palastinmian doctor and his brother being kidnapped by Israel the day before. You want to know the Israeli acts of agression? Look it up! I say that Israel has rennaged on every so called cease fire. You don't believe? Look it up. Work at it and you will see that there are idiots on all sides.

Swedish suicide bombers? Crazy arguement. Tell you what, let's look at the morality issue here: We are told that suicide bombing is bad but sanctions/bombing/invasion are good. Some poor yank soldiers get thrown in jail for abusing prisoners. Bad. Yet, bombing folk is good? This is a Class War issue. If you want the Palestinians to stop suicide bombing, then sell them F16s, Apache helicopters etc.

Look at the organisations within the USA and Israel who are fighting against the oppression within these counties. It's not just me ranting.

We, the people, must rise above the propaganda.

Ach, it's Hogmanay and i'm a long way from home. Will light sauna, have a beer and some whisky. Let's ALL hope that 2007 involves a lot less killing and a lot more understanding.

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Oliver F,

UK 31/12/2006 15:55:23

Finnking #333

"Lynne and Oliver: It is really hard to argue with such ignorance of historic facts. I grow tired and weary of trying to explain the benefits of reading beyond the mainstream press"

I grow tired and weary of arguing with apologists for terrorism. Your dismissal of the swedish suicide bomber argument is the crazy one. You dont deal with the issue. Why should israel put up with suicide bombings and other palestinian terrorism when other countries wouldnt? Why is israel supposed to show restraint when other countries have the right to defend themselves?

There is a desperate need for peace in the whole of the middle east. There are extremists on both sides and there are heinous acts of violence by both sides. We need to work with the moderates to try and bring peace. That is my prayer for 2007.

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Lynne,

USA 31/12/2006 16:03:59

#332 and 333
Why not take a trip over to Middle East Crisis..I get tired of debunking all of you over and over again..along with others who prove that you are wrong in many of your beliefs because of what you have been spoonfed. You will find that much of land in Israel were bought and paid for by the Zionists..among other things.
Like I said, this is not the post for that.

Happy New Year All...got to run.

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Finnking,

Tampere, Finland 31/12/2006 16:08:18

Okay, let's imagine that Scotland was given to the Zionists after WWII and this state was heavily funded by US and furnished with 200 nukes, F14s, Apaches attack helicopters etc (all attack weapons). Then, as millions of Jews arrived to the former scotland, this state started moving into Northumbria and planting houses there by pushing out the locals. Imagine on................

Anyway, enough.

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Lesley,

Edinburgh 31/12/2006 16:11:09

What completely disgusts me, and I am surprised that no-one else has mentioned this, is the revolting voyuerism on display here.

I could not continue to watch last nights news - watching a human being (however dispicable they may be) being prepared for execution - the rope and noose clearly visible - commpletely turned my stomach. This is cold bloodedness at its most awful.

There is not a newspaper for sale in Scotland today that does not bear photos of this mans final minutes (noose and all) or his dead body.

Today I am completely ashamed to be part of this sick society. By all means punish the man but do in behind closed doors. Some of us do not feel the need to see (although had CNN broadcast it live in its entirity I would not have been surprised.)

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Rabhairt,

Cannons Creek, Victoria, Australia 31/12/2006 16:22:12

Saddam was a murderer and probably derserved to die, personally I don't think it will make much difference to the war in Iraq. It is a joke that the Australian Wheat Board gave him in excess of $200,000,000 in bribes and this probally went towards his policies of genocide, the USA sold him chemicals and weapons when it was to their advantage, bloody hippocrits, do they think we are so stupid that we don't know that their only interest is in the oil, human life is not an issue.

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336

Wally,

Arizona 31/12/2006 16:25:27

Gildas 321 - there is a large amount of responsibility in US government for Saddam invading both Kuwait and Iran. That is because 1'st & foremost Saddam was a US puppet first associated with the US in the mid-1950's when he received protection from by the CIA from the Iraqi government who wanted to arrest Saddam and kill him for crimes committed in the 1950's. Saddam came to power with US help. Saddam was greatly aided by the US once in power.

US ambassador to Iraq April Glespie said publicly that Saddam asked her for a meeting to discuss his possible invasion of Kuwait. He asked her directly if the US would mind. She told him that the US would not mind. Then he invaded. That is historical fact.

Also US government asked Saddam to invade Iran and told him there'd be billions of dollars in grain given to him if he did it. This is historical fact.

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337

Rabhairt,

Cannons Creek, Victoria, Australia 31/12/2006 16:27:44

337 Leslie Edinburgh, well said.

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mbalamula,

zanzibar 31/12/2006 16:44:36

since we are so keen of showing live pictures ie of people being hanged show us the pictures (live)of Aerial Sharon roting on his death bed

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Wally,

Arizona 31/12/2006 16:47:12

I am sympathetic to Faramars who is from Iran. The US is wrong to threaten war with Iran or to engage in war with Iran. Iran is a peaceful country that has not invaded anyone (unlike US). The US should be friends with Iran instead of enemy.

The leader of Iran did not say that he wants to wipe Israel off map. If you read his long letter to bush and his long letter to American people you will see this. He said that he thinks that Israel will be wiped off the map because of the injustices Israel has done, he did not say that he wants to do this. the world-wide media reports incorrectly on this point. Read his letters and you'll conclude that he is a man of good will.

In the 1950's it was the US that installed Shah of Iran who was a tyrant. By contrast iran is not an aggressor nation.

Lynne & Oliver will harp that Iran funds Hamas. But the US funds Israel and Israel is much more beligerant than Hamas. Palestine does very little damage to Israel while Israel does massive damage to Palestine (and lebanon a few months ago).

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Wally,

Arizona 31/12/2006 16:48:29

I enjoyed the Hogmanay information.

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Gold R,

Macon, GA 31/12/2006 16:57:51

Its a good thing that a tyrant like Saddam and his 2 sons can no longer harm people of Iraq. We can be truthful to our selves, family, friends and neighbors. My wrongful act to rectify others mistakes will make things only worse. Lets not support evil when for our selfish gain, not now and not in the future. Lets not be selfish and think of only our selves.
Lets not blame each other for all the problems. Lets work for peace. We are all sinners and are at fault in one way or another. We all can do a better job. If we can be less hateful and give up our greed this world will be much better and safer place to live.

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Oliver F,

UK 31/12/2006 16:58:16

Finnking #336

I agree with your analogy. I have said many times on these boards/forums that Israel has commited wrongs. I do believe they should dismantle the settlements and cede land for peace but that hasnt worked so far has it? Anyhow, its going off topic so I wont respond further on the topic of israel/palestine.

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Wally,

Arizona 31/12/2006 17:02:37

http://www.juancole.com/2006/12/for-whom-bell-tolls-top-t...

Read this article about history of Saddam & US.

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JG,

Fife 31/12/2006 17:05:47

#337 Lesley
I am not sorry that Saddam is no longer with us - he was indeed a very cruel man, but I was also sickened by what I saw on the news. I suppose I watched with a facinated repugnance. Playing out his last moments on TV made me feel really uncomfortable.

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Sambo,

The deep south 31/12/2006 17:11:21

If you believe in the death penalty.
Does that mean that you believe a woman should be hung like a man?

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346

LD,

31/12/2006 17:15:57

#336

OK, let's imagine your neighbour sent suicide bombers as well as firing rockets into Finland, creating havoc and killing civilians in the process! Would the government of Finland allow such actions to go on without retaliation and surender to these terrorists? Be fair.

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bill, england,

31/12/2006 17:18:01

345. Oliver F

Israel/Palestine is not off topic.

The Zionist invasion of Palestine starting in the 19th century is the root cause of most of the unrest in the Middle East. The unrest has been further fuelled by USA foreign policy.

Saddam modelled himself on Nasser after his success (with USA help) of repelling the Franco/British/Israeli invasion of Egypt in 1956.

Massive support has been given to Saddam because of his support for the Palestinian cause, and among his last words was the statement "Palestine is Arab".

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348

Rossw,

berks 31/12/2006 18:12:16

Gildas;

Islamist totalitarianism is all part of the invented subterfuge, they have to have some half baked reason to persue their illegal invasions of strategically important lands which just happen to be populated by Moslems who just happen to be a little pissed off at this policy. Therefore it follows that Islamists are hard line and a bit like the commies they want to rule the world, so you publish extremes of Islamic doctrine to the masses which state that Allah created the Earth for true believers and the rest of us infidels must convert or die.

I dont swallow this horse shit as it happens and have seen no real evidence or platform for Islamist domination of the world. Islam is being radicalised by the policies of the West but not to the extent that we are led to believe. As I stated previously I hugely more afraid of the ultra right wing evangelicals who are bent on inexorable delivery of the world to Armageddon, I shit a brick every time I listen to one of these nutters.

As for America's manipulation of Saddam in both the war with Iran and the invasion of Kuwait, it was morally reprehensible and resulted in the death of over a million human beings. The CIA and the other agencies who concieved of this policy must have known that bloodlust would ensue, therafter the world's supposed policeman stood back and reaped the benefit of the instability which followed. Therefore in my opinion they were morally responsible for the carnage which resulted from their carefully concieved strategies.

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349

TonyBLiar,

still at the beegess 31/12/2006 18:37:34

whew

aren't W and I glad he didn't pull the old Pinochet trick and pretend he was too sick to stand trial.

again like Pinochet, we couldn't understand how saddam didn't have a law which said he was immune from prosecution - after all that's what W has for all his soldiers who murder innocent Iraqis.

hope no-one spoils the ending to ElCid which is on the box at hogmaney - I'm taping it while over here at Sir 9oops) Robins. The CID certainly knew how to deal with marauding Muslims. hope my tape works on W's vcr.

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350

Dudley,

New York 31/12/2006 18:41:41

Let your imagination go for a moment: Now that saddam has spent about two days in hell, can you just imagine what an evangelist, a good will ambassador, a kind and caring person with, instead of an evil charisma, a man who could lead and fully convince all his people that all the while all of them were dead wrong and their twisted beliefs a bunch of hog wash, that the devil was behind every action. Can you just imagine, if he were permitted to come back from the dead and from the horror of that place in hell: can you just imagine! what a changed person he would be. Mass killings, suicide bombers - all in the name of God. Garbage! When will be realize that this war is not against flesh and blood, but it is a spiritual battle. Pray for all the troops on duty there that until a spiritual revival occurs and men's hearts are changed, it will go on and on and on and....

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351

Kenneth,

31/12/2006 18:55:56

Lynne & Oliver 332

The bottom line is that Isrial invaded Palistine and stole the property and rights from the people who were there for centuries. Isrial made claim to the area on a history that goes back thousands of years. They said that because they could trace their ownership back further than anyone. Their self proclaimed rights coupled with the sympathy from the west for the holocost, and the geopolitical advantage of having an ally of that sort in the area lead to the establishment and support of Isrial. One can insert anywhere along the timeline any number of issues that against the basic truth amount to a tit for tat continuing battle. For every Isralie killed TEN Palistinians are killed. One can use the words: killed, murdered, victim, soldier, waiting for a bus, eating in a restaurant, driving in a car, colateral damage, etc. It doesn't matter. Until Isrial and the West address the only issue at hand-establishment of a valid, true, reasonable, and realistic Palistinian state, the killing will continue. Isrial will continue to accept slaps in the face(including the occasional death) until they say it has gone too far and then invade somewhere and kill ten times the count and a thousand times the damage to teach the: terrorists, victims, Palistinians, Hamas, ungrateful people a lesson.

History is written by the victors and the news we get in the West is biased along with our guilt over the holocost and other wrongs done to the Jews. It is, however, impossible to satisfy the Jewish need for a homeland by stealing it from a people who were thousands of miles away from WW2. Yes Jews were dealt the short end in the Middle East over the years. Yes Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years. Two wrongs to not make a right. If one trys to fit this square peg into this round hole then one must face the consequences. The consequences are that people regardless of what race or religion know that they have the right to fight

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352

Bull3540,

Texas, USA 31/12/2006 19:02:18

[Sami al-Askari, political adviser to prime minister Nouri Maliki, who also witnessed the execution, said Saddam had struggled when he was taken from his cell in an American military prison.]

This has been widely reported as incorrect; he did not struggle at all.

[He said that Saddam had "refused to have his head covered with a bag", adding that: "Before the rope was put around his neck, Saddam shouted, 'God is great. The nation will be victorious and Palestine is Arab.']
Again, inaccurate, he never said this. He walked quietly and asked only that his koran be given to "Bander" whose identity at this point is unknown.

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353

St Monance,

Toronto, Canada 31/12/2006 19:08:27

The invaders of Iraq alleged they were bringing democracy and justice to a suffering populace. Instead, they have murdered as many innocents as Saddam, have created instability and civil war, and taken the secular rights Saddam had imposed away from women.

To top it off, they now take pride in the murder of another individual. But of course, the US remains one of the few countries, like China and Iraq that employs capital punishment. So much for democracy and justice. This is all about George W's Edipal complex: got to outdo Daddy at war.

Compared to many of the world's tyrants, Saddam was a mere amateur. But those other tyrants could beat George W and Tony, so they'll leave them alone to continue the massacres of Africa and North Korea and Iran, et al.

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354

amsmom2njkz,

home 31/12/2006 19:22:26

here is a video for those of you wanting it........WWW.PANDACHUTE.COM.....Not the best but it has some details not seen

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355

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta,California 31/12/2006 19:50:26

I love this Arab system whereby a criminal who commits murder and is sentenced to death, is then excuted within 30 days of the sentencing. No reprieves no nothing just a rope around the neck and dropped until dead.

Here in the USA the trial lawyers make a multi- dollar business dedending criminals awaiting excution.
It takes up to 20 (twenty) years or more, before we kill a murdering criminal in the USA and up to 22 years in California. How pathetic is that.

The USA should adapt the IRAQI sentence/execution rule...30 days and you are toast.

And forget all the whining about barbaric methods etc. Think for once about the victims and the misery their families and friends go through.

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356

Gold R,

Macon, GA, USA 31/12/2006 20:08:12

I apologise on behalf of our country for all the suffering that we may have caused to citizens of other countries, for their personal loses. I beg for forgiveness to the mother who lost her child, wife who lost her husband, sister who lost her dearest brother..... we call it Collateral damage...... but for you , mother, its your nearest and dearest. Please forgive us. Common citizens of USA are not evil. We are god fearing and peace loving people.

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357

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta,California 31/12/2006 20:11:21

#50 Kathryn.

We are fully aware that the US Congress declares WAR.
But are you so naive to think that Bush and his gang did not bend and distort the facts which led to Congress making the decision to go and attack IRAQI.
Bush's gang ignored all the scientific reports stating that Saddam Hussein did not have WMD. that's a fact.

And remember IRAQI did not attack the USA.
Bin Laden attacked the USA and he is still free.

Bush's true colors are now plain for all to see. It amazes me that a moron and ex drug addict like Bush could con millions of Americans like that.

But wait why I am amazed, when we spend 37 cents of our taxpayer’s dollar on military and war efforts, but only 4 cents of our taxpayer’s dollar on education.

For as long as we have a mass tide of mediocrity or worse a mass tide of LCD's (lowest common denominators) badly educated in the USA . There will always be opportunities for evil people like Bush.

Galactic Cannibal thank you.

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358

Ken 1,

Glenrothes 31/12/2006 20:17:08

If the Americans had handled things properly when they caught him all this clap- trap would be dead...

WHEN THEY FOUND HIM -IT SHOULD HAVE REMAINED SECRET

AFTER INTERROGATING HIM FOR 6 MONTHS, THEY SHOULD HAVE TAKEN HIM BACK TO THE HOLE, SHOT HIM AND DECLARED HE HAD JUST BEEN FOUND.

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359

bill, england,

31/12/2006 20:47:02

360. Gold R, Macon, GA, USA

I would like to say the same on behalf of the millions of British people who opposed the invasion.

I also offer apologies for our stupidity in electing such politicians as Blair and his gang, and allowing him to continue his criminal activities.

I know that our troops are doing their best to help you recover and rebuild your country, and the people of Britain offer our full support to them and to you.

I apologise on behalf of our country for all the suffering that we may have caused to citizens of other countries, for their personal loses. I beg for forgiveness to the mother who lost her child, wife who lost her husband, sister who lost her dearest brother..... we call it Collateral damage...... but for you , mother, its your nearest and dearest. Please forgive us. Common citizens of USA are not evil. We are god fearing and peace loving people.

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360

Lynne,

USA 31/12/2006 20:57:09

Kenneth...go read and learn

Israel was created in a peaceful and legal process by the UN. It was NOT created out of Palestinian lands.
It was created out of the Ottoman Empire, ruled by the Turks for 400 years..who lost it in WWI when they were defeated. There was no "Palestinian" lands at the time becauase there were no people claiming to be Palestinians.There were Arabs who lived in the region of Palestine, but they considered themselves Syrians. It was only after WWI that the present states of Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq were created....also out of the Turkish Empire by the British and the French...(the Victors)
Jordan was created on about 80% of the Palestine Mandate..originally designated by the League of Nations as part of the Jewish Homeland. Since then Jews cannot own property there. 2/3 of its citizens are Palestine Arabs, but it is ruled by a Hasemite monarchy.

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361

Lynne,

USA 31/12/2006 20:59:24

..Israel came to occuppy the Gaza Strip at the end of the 6-Day War because hostile Egyptian forces were poised to launch attacks from Gaza into Israel.It retained sovereignty over the area because Arab leadership unanimously rejected Israel's offers to return conquered territories in exchange for peace, and because every Arab state had rejected UN Resolutions 242 and 338 calling for peace negotiations and the establishment of recognized borders for ALL states in the region. Israel retained control of the Gaza Strip after ceding all the Sinai all the Sinai Peninsula in its peace treaty with Egypt in 1979 because Anwar Sadat did not want sovereignty over more than 1 Million Palestinians in the Strip.

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362

Lynne,

USA 31/12/2006 21:02:19

ISRAEL AND JERUSALEM FACTS
>
> 1. ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1312 B.C., TWO MILLENNIA BEFORE ISLAM;
>
> 2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD;
>
> 3. AFTER CONQUERING THE LAND IN 1272 B.C., JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS;
>
> 4. THE ONLY ARAB RULE FOLLOWING CONQUEST IN 633 B.C. LASTED JUST 22 YEARS;
>
> 5. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT;
>
> 6. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;
>
> 7. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MUHAMMAD NEVER SET FOOT IN IT;
>
> 8. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE
> BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR
> BACKS TO JERUSALEM;
>
> 9. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;
>
> 10. VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES HAD TO FLEE AS THE RESULT OF VIOLENCE AND POGROMS;
>
> 11. SOME 630,000 ARABS LEFT ISRAEL IN 1948, WHILE CLOSE TO A MILLION JEWS WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES;
>
> 12. IN SPITE OF THE VAST TERRITORIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARAB REFUGEES WERE DELIBERATELY PREVENTED FROM ASSIMILATING INTO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES. OF 100 MILLION REFUGEES FOLLOWING WORLD WAR 2, THEY ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH THEIR CO-RELIGIONISTS. MOST OF THE JEWISH REFUGEES FROM EUROPE AND ARAB LANDS WERE SETTLED IN ISRAEL, A COUNTR

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363

Lynne,

USA 31/12/2006 21:02:58

Kenneth the above is for you.

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364

Alexandria,

usa 31/12/2006 21:08:20

Alec, Chicago, having not voted for Bush, father or son, I find myself agreeing with a majority of your comments (tho I am sure you don't need my vote). Majority Vote in the USA doesn't , in itself, mean anything anyway as we are well aware. What gets one into a position of power here is Money, lots of it, Oil Money, self-interest Money, the Bushs have plenty. I support 1/20/09, Bush's last day in office. He will go down in history as one of the most damaging pres. this country has ever had. He has torn apart this country as well as others with his tactics, he does not represent the majority of the people living in this country. He is allowing a take over of the good old usa, 1 or 2, english or spanish. Oh he_ _, way too many issues to get into. Let me know where you decide to land when you flee, seems all the countries worth going

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