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Vice law fails safety test



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Published Date: 18 April 2008
IT'S the type of business no-one wants in their neighbourhood. Women living near the city's "red light district" were fed up with being harassed by kerb crawlers after dark. Many were frightened of waiting at bus stops, as these were used by prostitutes looking for trade. Parents even found their children playing with used condoms and needles in local parks.
So residents were delighted when strict new laws on prostitution were brought in last year. They welcomed the Scottish Government's drive to get sex workers off the streets and criminalise their clients.

Kerb crawlers could expect a £1000 fine, a criminal record and to lose their driving licence. Women caught "loitering and soliciting" also faced fines up to £1000.

But six months later, many doubt whether these laws have had the desired effect. The Newhaven-based prostitutes' support group ScotPEP has released new figures showing that the number of attacks on prostitutes – called "ugly mug" incidents by the street workers – has doubled since 2006. They claim the laws have made life more dangerous for women, by forcing them to work alone and take more risks.

ScotPEP reported 126 attacks last year in Edinburgh, including 55 assaults and eight rapes. Although these figures cover all of 2007, it says the situation has got worse since October.

Ruth Morgan Thomas, the group's project manager, said more women were arranging meetings in discreet places over the phone rather than picking up clients on the streets. That has meant losing most of the precious few safety guards they enjoyed when they worked semi-publicly on the streets, close to other street workers who tended to keep an eye on them.

Police crackdowns on kerb crawling mean those who continue to work the streets tend to jump straight into cars with clients, without assessing them first.

Ms Morgan Thomas said: "The Scottish Parliament decided to go for criminalising both the buyer and the seller.

"One of the results was that women were driven into more isolated areas.

"Another impact is some men will be put off purchasing sex. But men who have raped and murdered sex workers will not be deterred by the prospect of a criminal record. Prostitutes are left with a smaller group of clients, but are more likely to be assaulted."

She said about 90 per cent of street workers were on drugs, compared to only ten per cent of prostitutes who work indoors. ScotPEP works with around 400 women a year, helping them access health services and report attacks to police.

Independent MSP Margo McDonald said the increase in violence was not surprising.

She said: "My reason for opposing the new law was it said one thing, but its intention was another. They were trying to eliminate prostitution. This needs a big police resource, and I don't think the police are in a position to deliver it.

"When we had the tolerance zone, the car registrations were often known to the women and the police. They were able to police it much more successfully in terms of women's safety."

But the Scottish Government claims the new laws have had some success in the first six months, although they cannot be expected to end prostitution and its associated problems overnight. It has also spent £1 million developing local strategies in Edinburgh and other cities.

A spokesman said: "The Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland has reported a significant reduction in demand."

Lothian and Borders Police say they have arrested and charged 24 suspected kerb crawlers since October.

And the changes have improved residents' lives. Most prostitutes tended to work in a three-square-mile area between Seafield, Leith Links and Ocean Terminal, although the city's unofficial "tolerance zone" in Leith was scrapped in 2001.

Rob Kirkwood of Leith Links Residents' Association, said

: "It's had a tremendous positive effect here. Women and girls can walk to friends and not feel they'll be targeted by kerb crawlers."

But he admits the problem has not gone away. He said: "We've made our community safer but we'd like to see more creative policies for tackling prostitution."

The debate on what these might be is still very much open. The much-cited example of Sweden – which has reported some success by decriminalising prostitutes, but prosecuting the men who use them – is difficult to equate to Scotland.

The Swedish initiative was combined with a comprehensive programme to educate women and help them find jobs. Sweden also has a much smaller sex industry and lower levels of drug addiction.

While Scotland's approach has improved life for those living around the city's traditional red light district, there remain deep concerns it is failing some of the most vulnerable women in society.


The full article contains 788 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

18/04/2008 10:15:33
What an awful mocked up photograph, blasé hooker leaning against wall lighting a fag...that image could not be further from the truth and is straight out of 'Pretty Woman'...was that the journo that wrote this piece posing for her article, cos it certainly is far from the reality of the skulking gaunt junkies that loiter nervously waiting for a punter...

The 'problem' will never go away, time for us to grow up and deal with it.
2

calum,

18/04/2008 11:15:09
The danger presentded to women was from their own pimps and handlers who perpetuated their drug habit ..... and this policy was supported by Scotpep, Margo and a renegade senior police officer (now retired a long time ago). They should tackle the problems that put them into street prostitution in the first place, not endorse its continuation.
3

Jenny MacArthur,

18/04/2008 12:17:29
I'd be perfectly happy to have working women in my neighbourhood. So the first sentence of the article is a lie for starters. This 'journalist' can't even spell the words "no one" (which don't have a hyphen.) Pedantic perhaps, but when the first sentence of an article already contains two howlers, it suggests this rag should employ fewer school leavers to write for it.
4

Hearts Daft,

Tynecastle 18/04/2008 13:07:37
#2 Calum - Have you never heard of the phrase 'The auldest profession'. Prostition is never going to go away. The obvious solution is to have a designated area (not residential)where the prostitutes and punters can be properly monitored and protected. Whether we like it or not an individuals body is a resource and if they want to sell it for sex that should be their decision; not the decision of some middle class prudes.
5

Wull The Champ,

Sunny Leith 18/04/2008 13:27:51
I've never had a problem with women selling sex - that's their choice. I'd have no problem with them working in my neighbourhood if they would clear up their mess - leaving used johnnybags in playing fields is hardly treating the area with respect, respect has to be given to be received.
6

,

18/04/2008 15:26:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

James (1),

18/04/2008 18:49:44
#4 your right and we should allow drug dealers to sell their drugs on the street. They are only trying to make a living to feed their habit, just like prostitutes.
Lets allow all crime to be committed? Why try to stop it? These poor women need to claim benefit money AND get other money if they can.
If drug dealers were allowed to hang about schools they could make enough to get by and perhaps offer prostitutes cut rates.
Prostitutes cannot do any other job because if they could they would. So its better we follow Scotpeps idea and let them get on with it. Scotpep can provide unsubstansiated figures to "prove" more assaults are taking place.
Prostitutes are not going to lie are they? That would just make others pity them. Feeling sorry for them is not what they want. No we must take what they say as gospel. They pay their taxes so need our protection. Well I know they dont actually pay taxes but they would if it was legalised. They would have a union as well.
Forget Amsterdam having legalised prostitution and has pimp and drug problems. Thats abroad not here! Our prostitutes just need it to be legal and all the ills of the world will disappear.
All they want is a chance!

Scotpep is trying its hardest to allow them to continue with their life style. Freedom of choice. Imagine if schools subscribed to this way of life? Can you imagine teacher saying " Drugs are bad for you but if you are going to take them make sure the needle is clean" Responsible attitude? Please do not consider residents who pay their taxes, that is their own fault for having a job, not taking drugs and living where prostitutes want to operate.
Apparently prostitutes do not or cannot ply their trade outside their own homes?
Take drugs and apparently you get a dispensation from being law abiding.
Poor them!
8

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

18/04/2008 19:48:45
A lot of them live in Hostels, squats, or stay overnight with punters, or pimps, some stay in supported accommodation, some of the lucky ones who are able to sustain a tenancy have a home, but you will find that these are not normally in 'red light' districts and they would not make any money by standing in the street outside of their home.

7...what is your solution?
9

John Blackley,

Florida 18/04/2008 20:58:09
Prostitution is illegal, buying and using restricted drugs is illegal. The police have a responsibility to first look after the interests and safety of those who abide by the law. The police have a limited number of people to carry out this responsibility. Therefore, those who do not abide by the law will find their interests and safety - while breaking the law - of less importance.
10

James (1),

19/04/2008 00:28:02
#8 I would make sure that those breaking the law pay for doing so!
Prostitutes who are "working" would be reported to the benefits agency as self employed. So no need to pay them benefits.
Those kerb crawlers would have their cars seized as it was used in the commission of a crime and kept until the courts deal with the case. If found guilty they forfeit the car to pay towards the costs.

I am fed up with making out these women are victims.

Do gooders always trying to find an excuse why these women do what they do. There is no doubt they have a hard life but what should be done is they are given support to quit and "if" they either decided they do not want to or fail to keep their part of the bargain then just deal with them as any other criminal.
11

GmL,

Edinburgh 19/04/2008 01:01:02
#9 and 10, and others,I have to say.... again.... that prostitution, the exchange of sex for money, is NOT illegal in Scotland.
12

GmL,

Edinburgh 19/04/2008 01:03:00
#7, you have completely misunderstood, or perhaps misrepresented, the purpose of Scot-pep. You would be better served, and better informed, by reading their Annual Report. It is publicly available.
13

Julian,

EDINBURGH 19/04/2008 02:58:30
#11,

Well that certainly blows there argument out the water if you are correct. If it's not illegal then why are the buyers and sellers being arrested and fined?

James(1)
It used to be illegal in this country to be actively homosexual or for women to vote. I suppose you would have supported imprisoning people on that basis back then.
14

GmL,

Edinburgh 19/04/2008 13:17:23
No.13. The sellers are arrested for soliciting. The buyers are arrested for kerb crawling. Both are under the broad umbrella of public nuisance.

However, the act itself remains legal; which, of course, means that sex workers are perfectly entitled to the protections and rights that more "conventional" members of society enjoy.
15

James (1),

19/04/2008 13:50:49
#13 why have you made such a stupid statement guessing what I might have supported in years gone by?

Would it not have been better just staying quiet if you had nothing sensible to say instead of showing yourself up?
16

James (1),

19/04/2008 15:59:13
#11 Perhaps you should use your legal skills to defend these prostitutes because it would appear that the police are charging them for committing no crime and the courts are sentencing them.
"THE" legal system is at odds with your legal system.

By the way where did you gain your legal qualifications?
University of Google?
17

James (1),

19/04/2008 16:20:34
#12 the following is a direct quote from Scot-Pep site:

Our staff and volunteers will not:

· breach your confidentiality
· attempt to take control of your life
· attempt to persuade you to leave prostitution
· make any moral judgement on your lifestyle

So the last two bullet points speak volumes about them.
If they were to at least try to get these women off the street I would have some respect for them but they are just liberal live and live types. Now that philosophy would be great if it was not done at my expense.
Prostitutes provide nothing to society. They are there to serve their own needs which could be because they are drug dependant. There are help groups for this.
These groups try to get people off drugs. Scotpep dont try to get prostitutes off the street. So I would not believe any statistics they provide because they are too gullible an organisation.
Please do not think I am against the workers and volunteers who run Scotpep, they are obviously kind hearted people.
I am against how Scotpep operates. They see tax paying residents as the enemy and prostitutes as the oppressed.
While the law has protitution as illegal then it should be rooted out.
18

GmL,

Edinburgh 19/04/2008 19:04:34
You have taken a couple of quotes out of context. You should be aware that, if a woman wishes to exit sex work, then Scot-Pep will assist them. That is akin to the drug agency that reduces harm to the addict, until he/she is ready to kick their habit.

"They see tax paying residents as the enemy". Please provide evidence for that. It is well documented, however, that Scot-pep sympathise with those residents who are affected by sex workers.

"Prostitutes provide nothing to society". I am sure there are many sociologists and the like who would argue that point.

And.... again...."While the law has protitution as illegal then it should be rooted out." Prostitution is not illegal.
19

James (1),

20/04/2008 10:20:03
#18 So why are prostitutes having to move on? What right have residents to complain?

I have not take anything out of context. Those are direct quotes from Scotpep. That is what they are telling these women.
So if Scotpep say our staff/volunteers will not "attempt to persuade you to leave prostitution"
That can only mean they are condoning their life style.

Scotpep are complaining that women have to move out of residential areas due to complaints made by residents and the police now doing their job. Yes thats right, doing their job. Not turning a blind eye as before.

I still stand by they provide nothing. Similar to drug dealers but I am sure some sociologists could make a case for drug dealers as well.
20

GmL,

Edinburgh 20/04/2008 11:58:27
They provide nothing?? Other than the execution of NHS Lothian's policy to reduce the spread of BBV/HIV? A policy that is, even if you do not agree with its morality, saving you and I a substantial amount of money.

As for the legality issue, look at what I said earlier about the offences surrounding sex work.
21

James (1),

20/04/2008 13:10:20
#20 Do you want to try explaining again?
You appear to have compared Scotpep with Prostitutes?

1-Scotpep provide support for prostitutes!

2-Prostitues provide nothing to society!

Point 2 is what I said and I would suggest you try reading first and comment second.
(This is only one example of your confused thinking)

Also your logic about Scotpep saving me money is correct but by Police removing the problem (Prostitutes and punters) we also are saving money.
My view on Scotpep is they are a waste of time.

Police are able to give 24 hours attention to this problem and in my mind they should.
These women are sponging off us whilst making money.

Would you consider it acceptable if taxi drivers who are self employed(no offence meant by comparing prostitues with taxi drivers)also claimed benefits by saying they were unemployed?

As I said too many Liberal minded do gooders. That type of thinking has put society where it is. A PC world where to speak the truth means you have probably infringed someones rights and caused them to have a nervous breakdown and they will be seeing their lawyer to get compensation.
Your views are just that, your views and I have the right to have mine.
Mine is that we need to get rid of this problem and not make it easier for them to go about their "business".
22

GmL,

Edinburgh 20/04/2008 17:24:42
"your logic about Scotpep saving me money is correct"

"My view on Scotpep is they are a waste of time"

Which is it?





23

James (1),

20/04/2008 18:09:06
#22 Why are you answering a question with a question?
The 1st question I asked was you appear to have confused Scotpep as providing nothing when in fact I actually said "Prostitutes" provide nothing.
I tried to throw you a bone by agreeing that "if" Scotpep did what you say they have done, then yes they will save me money.
Living without gas or electricity would also save me money but I am not prepared to do this. I am however prepared to do without Scotpep.
To clarify, if Scotpep closed down tomorrow I could not care less. They are a self interest group.
The 2nd question was "Would you consider it acceptable if taxi drivers who are self employed(no offence meant by comparing prostitues with taxi drivers)also claimed benefits by saying they were unemployed?"

Please feel free not to answer these questions as like Scotpep with prostitutes I would not wish you to face up to reality and actually have to think.

(mmm! Wonder what question will come back?)


24

GmL,

Edinburgh 20/04/2008 19:11:02
Your insults do your argument no favours at all, and I am not going to rise to them.

You have your sense of morality, which clearly differs from mine. It is clear that we are not going to agree on any of this, which makes all of this redundant.

I will finish with one comment, though, which deals with the "reality" jibe. The reality is that, as long as there are men and women prepared to pay for sex, there will be men and women prepared to sell it. No matter one's morality, no matter the legal position of the society it occurs in, that has been the case for thousands of years. No society has managed to expunge it, and I am not sure that any ever will.

That is all :0). I has been fun debating with you.
25

James (1),

20/04/2008 21:20:04
#24 I apologise for being rude.

We will never agree about this subject as our views are opposites.(But we do agree to disagree so there is hope?)
Your view (as I see it) is that men and women are always going to do this so lets "just make it legal so they can get on with it".
I don't not agree with this view.
Why bother with having any laws and then ignore the ones we don't like?
26

Julian,

EDINBURGH 20/04/2008 21:24:15
James(1)

Quote from GML:
"your insults do your arguments no favour"
Wise words indeed.

You ask why I guess at what you may have thought about past activities which were illegal.
Simple answer. Because you always use the illegality argument as a basis for your case against prostitutes.

With statemetns such as:-
"I would make sure that those breaking the law pay for doing so"
So, would you have made those homosexuals pay back 70 years ago when it was illegal?
27

Julian,

EDINBURGH 20/04/2008 21:30:07
James(1)

I offer an olive branch. I do agree with your opposition to the argument that just because things will always happen we should just give up and not bother having laws against them. That's a badly thought out and defeatist attitude.

On prostitutes though I completely disagree with you. They should be allowed to get on with it as far as I'm concerned. And if they're causing a nuisance with their behaviour or are dodging taxes then that's a separate issue and not one which should be used to make prostitution illegal. It's rather like saying we should abolish alcohol because of all the bad effects that has.
28

James (1),

21/04/2008 11:46:45
#27 Sorry but I cannot agree with your last comment part of which is "They should be allowed to get on with it as far as I'm concerned. And if they're causing a nuisance with their behaviour or are dodging taxes then that's a separate issue and not one which should be used to make prostitution illegal."

It is not a separate issue. It is all part of the same issue, part of which you want to ignore.
I don't and it is because of people like you with this type of attitude wanting to ignore part of the problem or should I say all of the problem because you think it is of no matter because you have lower standards than me.

With regard to your homosexual example then the answer would be yes! Now it is legal I don't care what people get up to.
No doubt we will have some government apologist coming on saying we are sorry to all homosexuals.

Just because it is legal now does not mean it is right. I personally do not think it is normal but since it is legal let people get on with it.
That type of life style is done by the minority of the population and in todays society the minority rule.
We are ruled by the PC touchy feely, don't want to offend by having an opinion brigade.
It is like fashion. It will change.

 

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