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'Prejudiced' neighbours make false claims against migrants



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Published Date: 14 May 2008
EASTERN European migrants are being unfairly labelled as neighbours from hell in Edinburgh because of "ignorance and prejudice", support workers said today.
The Edinburgh Mediation Service has hit out at the number of groundless complaints it receives from Scots about Poles, and other nationalities, living on their doorstep.

The most common complaint is that a house is breaking multiple occupancy laws
by cramming as many people as possible into a confined space.

Unscrupulous landlords have tried to take advantage of some migrants' shortage of money and sheer desperation to find a home in the Capital, by breaching HMO laws.

But the mediation service, which is called in by the council, police and other organisations to help resolve disputes, claims the number of complaints is completely out of proportion to the real extent of the problem.

Christine Schoeck, team leader at ECM, said "several" groundless claims are being made each month.

She added: "Often people don't bother to meet their neighbours and, if they are newcomers, they tend to make assumptions about how many are in a flat, or claim they are making a lot of noise, but it is not correct at all.

"We get people saying there's overcrowding, and that it should not be allowed, and there are more than are allowed to stay in one flat under multiple occupancy rules.

"The truth is a lot of people who resent the fact that they (eastern Europeans) have come make these assumptions.

"Sometimes people say, 'They pretend they don't speak English', which is a bizarre thing to say. In most cases, it is the neighbour showing ignorance and prejudice. It all comes out of not knowing and assuming the worst."

If the EMS is able to get both sides into mediation meetings problems can generally be resolved. However, in a third of cases, so many insults and accusations have been made that one or both parties refuses to talk to the other.

The city council investigates hundreds of city flats over complaints of breaches of HMO laws. In July last year, 433 city properties were under investigation.

In most cases allegations are dropped because they are untrue, or because the council has a policy of working with tenants and landlords to ensure they meet the rules.

However, there was a case of up to 18 Polish workers being crammed into a single two-bedroom property.

Karol Chojnowski, development manager for the Polish community portal Szkocja.net, believes there are also subtle differences in culture that lead to complaints being made.

He said: "We come from a culture where if you want to socialise you would go and visit someone. My parents did not go to the pub in the way Scots their age would have done, they would go visit their uncles and aunts and friends.

"Here, that would create the impression of a higher levels of people traffic going in and out of a place than there actually are."

Mr Chojnowski, 27, who has lived in Scotland for nine years, was himself the victim of false complaints.

He said: "This has happened to me. I used to live in Dalry and I had two brothers coming over to study at Telford College, last summer.

"There was a complaint against me and my girlfriend, who is Scottish, that we were accepting into the flat bigger numbers than we should have."

www.szkocja.eu



The full article contains 571 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Scotish Exile,

14/05/2008 12:16:32
"In most cases allegations are dropped because they are untrue, or because the council has a policy of working with tenants and landlords to ensure they meet the rules" ok, what proportion are untrue and what proportion are legitimate complaints.
2

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

14/05/2008 12:16:51
Wonderful subtle dig by Mr Chojnowski. "We dont all go to the pub. Sometimes we visit each other in our houses".

Does anyone else think that EEN reporting along the lines of " Free Caviar, Hooses and Champange for Poles" doesnt exactly help ?
3

FrankGallagher,

14/05/2008 12:27:11
God...and I thought that they were toiling for news yesterday.

Should read...Mr Chojnowski. "We dont all go to the pub. Sometimes we drive around p1ssed too".
4

alex paterson,

At the moment in Sevilla 14/05/2008 12:39:32
I wonder how many support workers have them as neighbours.
5

jambo1,

Rotherham 14/05/2008 13:52:43
for almost 16 months i had major problems from a migrant family, I was keeping incident sheets given to me by the councils asbo team, i logged everything I heard from this family, and by the way, this family was going out their way to cause as much disturbance they could, I even attended a medigation meeting along with this family, but after three weeks, they started up yet again, I had the asbo team in my flat during which this family were playing up, at the finish up, I went to the council offices for a meeting concerning the outcome, guess what, the council refused to take action against the said family, a few days later, it was published in the E N that a non-ethnic guy from the city has recieved an asb order
it just goes to show that these migrants get away with everything, oh and by the way, before anyone accuses me of being a racist, thats the last thing I would be, try living in a flat below a family of migrants and hear for yourselfs first
6

Bravetart,

14/05/2008 13:53:15
I know of a flat near where I live where you can see bunkbeds crammed into rooms quite openly. It is why they can afford the rent on their ridiculously low wages, not so bad when there are ten of you paying it.

Not so much the migrants fault than the landlords who are doing this.
7

gorgeousgorgieboy,

Edinburgh 14/05/2008 13:55:28
I've a young Polish girl living in the flat below me and she is always having people round, loud music. Noisy beggars they are.

Shes got nice jubblies though.
8

Mr H 2u,

Embra 14/05/2008 13:55:45
Nice to see that the mediation service doesn't suffer from any inbuilt bias!
9

jambo1,

Rotherham 14/05/2008 14:02:10
EXUSSIE PLES, ANY BODY FROM YOUR CITY GOT ANY EMPTEE HOUSE FOR FAMILY OF 65 PLES, GRANDMA AND HER 64 CHILDREN COLD AT NIGHT SHELTERING IN LOVELY HOTEL IN GRASSMARKET
10

rabbitsfoot,

Leith 14/05/2008 14:12:57
It could be suggested that between the council and the mediation service they are helping to make the lives of immigrants and locals much worse by their indecision and politcally correctness. Immigrant or local, if you are anti social and you cant behave then you should be evicted. simple has that. No exceptions. If the council/EMS dont get this in the bud then Edinburgh could be subject to an unprecedented level of racially motivated crime this summer. The next time that a mediation takes place and the immigrantas dont comply, the n they have to be evivicted. There vcan be no exceptions or this will even cause more resentment. therefore leading to more anti immigrant crime. The council and the EMS cant have it both ways.
11

Man On Corstorphine Omnibus,

Edinburgh 14/05/2008 14:13:01
Edinburgh MEDIATION Service? An oxymoron, surely?

Given the comments from the EMS team leader, this organisation is clearly of the view that, no matter the circumstances, the problem is local people and not immigrants.

Also, the EMS seems to think that local people should not, for some reason, make complaints about breaches of the HMO regulations, even if there is clear evidence that this is true.

EMS - another useless, council-funded organisation staffed by pro-immigrant, left-liberal, brown rice and sandals types.
12

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

14/05/2008 14:22:21
5, You ARE being racist for the simple fact you cant see these people who are giving you grief as just that , people.

Some immigrants are good , some are bad. Some scots are bad , some are good.

A bit common sense is needed here on ALL sides.
13

alex paterson,

At the moment in Sevilla 14/05/2008 14:32:10
#12
What is required Mario is a bunch of fives,regular.
14

tumshie heid,

14/05/2008 14:46:51
#12 Agreed.
Why do we have to lump whole sections of society together just because of a few miscreants?
15

SamSung,

14/05/2008 14:58:47
the Polish and other Eastern Europeans are fine.generally nice folks and very friendly.

If we could just thin the herd of Students and English folk,i think things would be better.
16

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

14/05/2008 15:08:32
I'm not racist but I hate the Dutch.

:)

Its true....
17

parks is colin nish,

cape town 14/05/2008 15:35:26
who are these mediation muppets saying
"Unscrupulous landlords have tried to take advantage of some migrants' shortage of money and sheer desperation to find a home in the Capital, by breaching HMO laws."
eh no you muppets ,i have rented two flats to poles and never again. you rent to a nice couple fine then you start getting the calls and find there is, in one case 8 in the flat.
so you tw1ts(mispelt)dont blame landlords because if it was true the council are on the phone asking about details of leases and would have you in court in no time.the council have a fear of tackling immigrants and it leads to resentment from people like me who are unfairly treated which i dont believe is racist.
if i had the same problem with a british tennent it is easier to deal with them either making them stick to the lease or kick them out. FACT
18

jambo1,

Rotherham 14/05/2008 15:49:38
Mario, have you had a flat with migrants staying above you giving loads of noise 20 hours a day seven days a week? bet you havent, as for me being racial, no I am not, if I was I wouldn't buy my fags and newspapers from an asian shop
I am aggreived that for over a year I had to put up with all sorts of disorder from a family of migrants and the council taking no action at all, despite the fact the asbo team being in my flat during the noise disturbance happening during their visit, so do me a favour mate, get your own facts right before you call anyone a racist
I have never been racist in my life, true we have good and bad where ever we go, thank christ I dont have any bad neighbours or an even worse council where I am now am really pleased to say
19

roadstohell,

14/05/2008 15:57:02
Well well well, here we go again !
My Dad was a Pole, and they were the "first to Fight the Nazis", and at the end of it, they were stabbed in the back, and were sold down the river by Churchill,boy oh boy Then the labout party & the labour press started a smear campaign aimed at getting the Poles to go home,Riots in Leith & the Fife Coalfields, those that did were shot in the back of the head by the NKVD as soon as they crossed into East Germany. My Dad was a well educated man, but worked in crappy jobs because that was all he could get, because of prejudice. Well here is some good news for you "Pole hating " Scots, they are going home, !!!! in ever increasing numbers, because the Polish economy is improving. SO !!!!! maybe now you can clean your own toilets, and pick your own strawberries, Oh ! I forgot, these jobs are beneath you, you'd rather be on benefits and sit in the pubs all afternoon & night, moaning & whingeing.
I am fair scunnered
20

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

14/05/2008 16:14:56
Yeah some of these landlords are greedy barstewards, I heard one saying to someone visiting his empty flat..."Oh yes you could get a bed in here no problem"...referring to the cupboard/box room next door...walls as thin as paper so I yelled..."Aye ye feckin better no mate"....it went very quiet after that...get onto the HMO's dont let up, not for a minute...phone the polis...phone the agents...phone...the Whitehoose..anybody that'll give them and the landlord some grief.....

Dont know any Polish people but cannot understand why there is hatred towards them...they get the same shoite in America too do they not?...it'l be the same crap..."Taking all oor jobs"...(spoken from the deepest darkest corridors o' the bru)..
21

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

14/05/2008 16:34:56
Aye well, it used to be Indians , then it was Irish and whatever else.

Trouble is our immgrants unfortunately end up with our working class if they have no money. And the working class , by definition are stupid.

Cannae solve this one.
22

Listening,

14/05/2008 17:00:55
Much of the population is pis*** off at so many migrants taking our jobs, housing etc etc etc.

I bet there are responses saying they do jobs that our lot won't but if they weren't here then the jobs would still be done.
23

Listening,

14/05/2008 17:05:14
#18, well done you are exactly right.
24

roadstohell,

14/05/2008 17:06:03
#24, see my earlier post, better start tae get yer sleeves rolled up pal :0)
25

Listening,

14/05/2008 17:15:21
#26

What you state in your previous comment is not news to me. I posted something very similwr about 4 or 5 weeks ago. Poland is getting a lot of its workers back....good for Poland.

I am not against the polish, I infact know some pretty well, as I do Indians, Pakistanis, French etc etc etc.

I am NOT racist, I am quite happy to work with foreigners, I am quite happy to socialise with them.

My problem is that this country has been so PC for so long that the floodgates were left open for far too long. About 10% of the population is foreign born, then they have kids here. If this were only 5% just imaging how different things would be, and I bet there wouldn't be all these threads discussing this sort of situation.

It is now at the stage that housing is short, jobs are scarce and it is difficult to get your kids into school because of the number of immigrants.

The doors need bolted immediately, stop immigration.
26

tumshie heid,

14/05/2008 17:16:23
#24
More like much of the population are dismayed at such rubbish being spouted from people like you."Our jobs"etc Absolute tripe. If the indigenous population were prepared to get off their sofas and switch of Jeremy Kyle then perhaps migrants wouldn't come here as there wouldn't be any employment for them.
27

roadstohell,

14/05/2008 17:39:13
well, lets clear up one thing. unlike my dad, these Poles nowadays can 7 want to go home. My Dad couldn't, he had been in a Siberian Labour camp, fought the Nazis and if he had gone home the Russians would have shot him. (historic note, a train of 6,ooo Poles that fought for the Allies in WW2, disappeared within 1 day of returning behind the Iron Curtain, shot dead by the side of the rail tracks) Luckily, the "new" Poles dont have this.
POland sufferd as an "occupied nation" until the fall of communism.
If you had ever been in Poland, and seen the tidy clean streets,no Neds hanging abut the corners, you would understand that most of these folks will NOT stay here one minute longer than they need to. They are NOT immigrants, BUT Migrants, as members of the EU any member state can be your "home". We could get jobs in France, Germany etc etc , but how many do ?
Ach I'm seek o trying to talk tae bigots, Scotland is NOT the "friendly ,wee couthy country" that many Scots would have you believe. I was born here, I know the psyche of the Nation, I suffered religeous and racial bigotry 1st hand, so you cannae fool me, Scotlans need to have a good long hard look at itself.Too many are happy to draw the bru, sit in the pub, while thir youngster run amok outside. C'mon stop blaming Poles/Asians etc etc,if we as a Nation look into the mirror, we would see that "sadly" ww are NOT a patch on previous generations, the "spine" that held Scotland upright has dissolved away. And that is the plain truth, ye might no like it , but that's the way it is. Gie yersel a shake Scotland, show that there is sth left, make yer forefathers proud, not ashamed.
28

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

14/05/2008 17:44:20
I still stand by my earlier statement and some of you are just proving it to me . I am not a snob BUT...

I just get funnier every day , ce'st nest pas ?
29

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

14/05/2008 17:52:48
29 I predict that once The Netherlands and Belgium open their doors to Poles then they will be off like a shot, out of this miserable up its own ass wi fitba and booze country.

Scotland has a massive problem with poverty of spirit.
30

rossthelab,

embra 14/05/2008 17:56:47
What do they feed them in Poland, they seem like a race of Ivan Drago's!
Also I would be slightly put out if someone was literaly 'living on my doorstep'.

I vill break you.
31

roadstohell,

14/05/2008 17:59:46
aye, fitba, booze, bru, bigotry ,bone idle

Braveheart ma *rse...........

Listen mate, as soon as Belgium, Netherlands & Germany open their doors, in aboot 21/2 years time, whooooosh !!!
" Bye , and thanks for all the fish"

Then who will the whingers blame ?

Oh , haud on , the usual suspect "THE ENGLISH",

Jeezo, like a needle stuck ina record
32

csf1874,

14/05/2008 18:23:05
being half german i must admit i feel these polish get everything their own way,but it aint all them some scots are just as bad,but if these eastern europeans want fairness they have to abide by the laws of this country,which they dont..just watch crimewatch 1 month,abdul this marek that.even my country is overun by the turks,crime areas.
33

csf1874,

14/05/2008 18:26:52
britain is just a joke ,theirs no britsh in britain anymore,immigration is all pc greatness,but it has gone out of control..roll up roll up come on in big bucks to be had and you dont need to work,benefits is the wage
34

Listening,

14/05/2008 18:35:08
#29, less of the sob stories.

We appreciate what you are saying but the problem as stated is a problem due to the numbers of immigrants, migrants being the PC word but the only difference is the word.

Due respect for your dad, we would never wish to sully his name but the problems we are discussing were not problems of his day and he is not responsible for the problems.

The two are seperate issues and there is no need to link them.

I will also add that Scotland has, like most other countries, become lazy but I woulds bet it would be different if a policy of limited immigration were in place and had been over the past few decades.

I will also point out that immigrants are NOT the cause of the problem but have made the problem worse.
35

Bravetart,

14/05/2008 19:44:48
Roadstohell, obviously not paying attention.

I said it was unscrupulous landlords who were to blame.

Diddy.
36

roadstohell,

14/05/2008 20:08:58
"being half german" mhhhh speaks for itself, hardly "unbiased " then.
"Bravetart" paying very close atention, I was not addressing the issue you brought up ! " ty jest glupie, nie ja" !
"Listening" NOT sob stories, just plain facts & history, these are connected, as I intimated , " I have heard this particular song before"
The POLES DO NOT GET BENEFITS UNTIL THEY WORK UNINTERRUPTED FOR 24 MONTHS -FACT all this whingeing about taking our benefits is just the crap you have been fed by the gutter press, and you all swallow it !
OBTW I was born here in the 1950's in Stockbridge,(when it was a slum), I have never taken a penny in benefits, never been out of work,Paid off many times BUT found work, sometimes 2 jobs( once even 3) @ once to feed my wife & kids, when others went "oan the seek" etc etc for years at a time.............
Ach enough, I'm totally scunnered, same auld moans & greetin, blaming abody else, get up & show some "smeddum"
37

csf1874,

14/05/2008 20:33:01
yeah course the poles and romanians never do anything wrong do they..immigration should be tighter and less
38

Jingsitsme,

EDINBURGH 14/05/2008 20:33:22
Well I would far rather have a polish person live as a neighbour than some from Asia who pile so many people into the one house and don't keep their surroundings clear and don't integrate.

39

Listening,

14/05/2008 20:37:12
#38

OK settle down before the ticker gives in.

I am not picking on you, your family, the Polish. I am picking on our consective governments inadequate immigration rules.

It is the government(s) that are to blame here. The problems would have existed even with half the immigrants but the fact remains that the number of immigrants has made the problems worse.

What is the problem with stopping immigration? None that I can see and it would maybe allow the UK to recover a bit.

That is all!!
40

roadstohell,

14/05/2008 21:06:09
Mhhhh integration is another interesting point, I mean the ex pat Brits in Spain integrate dont they ?
Or when you speak about Asians, well ,you have to consider the level of "integration" that the British showed during the British Empire!!!!!

I bet many "asians" wished that the British had stayed at home during Queen Victorias reign !!!!!
Oh of course that was different, wasn't it ?
We weren't Immigrants then, jusr RULERS
41

is it me?,

14/05/2008 22:33:40
42
I was with you until you played that last card.

Of course the Asian/African countries have been much better places to live in since the end of British Administration, haven't they ? But that's a different thing.

I like Poles,
42

Artemis,

14/05/2008 22:33:45
#5 - your story doesn't "go to show" anything. It's one story. You can't say that all migrants behave badly with no consequences based on the example of one group of people in one flat.
43

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

14/05/2008 22:35:36
Ach well....some things never change eh?....maybe there will be a 21st century version of 'Love thy neighbour' coming on the box imminently....with Polish instead of black people...still, could be worse...imagine being Polish AND black and working in Scotland...oohyeye..eye...welcome in my close anytime...as long as you dont make too much noise or ahl hiv tae sort ye's oot!
44

is it me?,

14/05/2008 22:37:30
...sorry, cut myself off there.
I like Poles. They're a bit like Fifers and many off them now are.

45

is it me?,

14/05/2008 22:59:42
17
You have to be making it up for your own bigoted reasons.

If you're a landlord and have ever drawn up a missive you'd know how to spell 'tenant'(not 'tennent'), if nothing else.
46

,

14/05/2008 23:23:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
47

Conan the Librarian™,

14/05/2008 23:26:03
45
Lol.A Catholic Pole in Larkhall, next door to a Fijan Orangeman.
48

tumshie heid,

14/05/2008 23:57:43
#40
You can't resist spewing your racist bile can you?
I notice that you are trying to be clever by saying "some" Asians as if to say that you don't mean all of them.
What difference does it make whether you are Asian,Polish or Scottish?I can think of many areas in Edinburgh where white Scottish people don't keep their surroundings clear and their idea of integration is throwing an old sofa out the window.
49

James (1),

15/05/2008 00:09:24
I think we should stop picking on the racists! Surely they have a right to say what they think?
Whilst they may not be a minority the should be treated with respect.
50

,

15/05/2008 00:28:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
51

,

15/05/2008 05:29:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
52

jambo1,

Rotherham 15/05/2008 10:34:30
#44 am sorry if I made out that all migrants cause trouble, I cetainly didnt mean it to look as if they do, some of them seem to have a law of their own and they please themselves to cause anti social towards other people
53

jambo1,

Rotherham 15/05/2008 10:35:50
# 52 that is racist towards scousers, your comments should have been removed for that

 

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