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City centre hardest hit as house prices in Capital fall



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Published Date: 09 October 2008
HOUSE prices in the city centre have dropped more than 11 per cent over the past year, according to the latest figures from ESPC.
It is the steepest drop in house prices in any part of Edinburgh. In the third quarter of 2007, the average city centre property sold for £268,849, but for the same period this year, that figure has dropped to just £239,049.

The Gorgie/Dalry area is second in the league table, with a 9.3 per cent drop in the price of one bedroom flats – the average price is now just £114,549.

Around Leith Walk and Easter Road prices dropped by 7.9 per cent, with Marchmont/Bruntsfield and Stockbridge/Comely Bank experiencing a 6.2 per cent drop.

However, experts said the steep drop in city centre prices did not necessarily mean it was going to be hit by a more profound long-term downturn than the rest of the Capital.

ESPC business analyst David Marshall said: "What you'll tend to see in any market is that if prices are going up in some areas, other areas will perform slightly worse. If that's prolonged, it may be reflective of a trend but at present I'd suggest that it's typical of the market that some areas perform better and some perform poorer. It won't be accurate at this point to say there were particular issues pertaining to the city centre.

"The one trend that we have seen is that the three and four-bedroom houses as yet haven't started declining in price."

His comments were supported by figures which show that four-bedroom detached houses in the suburbs had seen a 20.9 per cent rise in value since this time last year, with the average sale price now standing at £443,637.

The news came as the Bank of England announced a 0.5 per cent cut in interest rates, which many hoped would kick-start the housing market. However, Mr Marshall sounded a note of caution: "Short-term I wouldn't imagine it would have a massive effect. The overarching restriction on demand at present remains the size of the deposits that people need to get a mortgage.

"A cut in interest rates might lead into cheaper financing in the medium term but only when the lending criteria get back towards the middle ground. We have gone from one extreme, where credit was too cheaply available, to the other, where banks have now had to re-balance their books. Hopefully these measures will return us to a more sane middle ground, but it may not show through in the short term."

His sentiments were echoed by Roderick Urquhart, a partner at A & WM Urquhart solicitors in Heriot Row.

He said of the interest rate cut: "It's early days. There's too much other news at the moment to know whether it's going to make much difference.

"We've certainly seen a number of inquiries coming in over the past couple of weeks as regards properties on the market and also individuals thinking about selling, so there's definitely been a slight increase in interest and activity, but it's still quiet."


The full article contains 535 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 October 2008 4:10 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Mortgage and property news
 
1

allknowing,

09/10/2008 12:00:13
I though Edinburgh was immune to all of this. the EEN certainly published this everyday, with their pals the ESPC jumping on the same bandwagon.

Egg and face come to mind!
2

Statsman,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 12:07:36
Obviously.
3

Daff,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 12:08:01
#1
It must be great to have all this prior knowledge of what was going to happen. This has never happened before! If the Governments of every country in the world couldnt predict how bad this was going to get why the h$ll is EEN going to know! Get off your soapbox!
4

Liz,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 12:21:19
#1
Yes, so are they now telling us that Edinburgh is no longer immune?
Still some way to go though, £114,000 for a one bedroom flat in Gorgie is still on the high side. At sensible lending rates a person would need to be earning ~£30,000 to afford one. With the average salary in Edinburgh of ~£26,000 the numbers just do not add up.

The cheap money has gone and with it house prices will continue to slide. This whole mess was so predictable that those at the ESPC and this newspaper should hang their heads in shame for encouraging people into the market with their made up newsreports about immunity.
God forbid what might happen if things continue to go badly for our banking sector.
5

Brodric,

09/10/2008 12:30:17
Agree with 4 Liz - prices were too high for average salaries.

Greedy banks and mortgage providers thought they could get round it by offering massive mortgages (125% no deposit in some cases) so that the poor could afford to buy an overpriced house in places like Dalry, where the average should be no more than £80,000.

Disgusting, greedy, anti-society - I hope that the current situation sees a permanent change in the way banks and finance companies operate, and that prices remain affordable.
6

Liz,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 12:34:38
#3
For your information the FSA were warning about our debt problems as long ago as 2004.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2004/feb/09/creditanddebt.business

For whatever reason our esteemed then Chancellor, now PM chose to ignore these warnings.
7

Clen Peapus,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 12:42:51
#3 It isn't about predicting the future, it is about acknowledging the signs and indications, as highlighted by #6. "Property experts" maintained a pretence that everything would be fine in Edinburgh and the EEN regularly published their propaganda.

#1 is spot on – egg and face! The problem with “property experts” is that they are essentially salesmen, and will do anything to maintain the appearance of stability and growth, because it is in their financial interest to do so – they are not impartial in the slightest.
8

ccc,

09/10/2008 12:46:52
"The one trend that we have seen is that the three and four-bedroom houses as yet haven't started declining in price."

His comments were supported by figures which show that four-bedroom detached houses in the suburbs had seen a 20.9 per cent rise in value since this time last year, with the average sale price now standing at £443,637"

You having a laugh David Marshall !!

A 20% rise in 4 and 5 bedroom houses in the suburbs since last year !! I think you will find that is due to the staggerlingly low number of them selling. I have personal experience of one of the nicest areas in West Edinburgh - and the selling of a lovely detached stone built house at 17% less than its valuation. This was after a year on the market and having to advertise a 50k price reduction.

The only reason it APPEARS like they are rising is simply due to the skewing effect of so few sales.

Surely the ESPC should know this. It was after all the reason you gace for the random average sales figure of 245k across Edinburgh a few months ago..

4 and 5 bedroom hosues have fallen just as much as everywhere else. The main reason this has not shown through so far is the stupidity of the sellers in reasliing that teh game is finally up. Teh smart ones are out already. Teh fools are sitting waiting for the amount they want. Well good luck to them if they can afford to wait 5-10 years

I have been tracking a few areas and I do agree with the ESPC that there will be differences from place to place.

However a nominal drop of about 15% in Edinburgh from the peak of June 2007 is the real story. Pretty much across the board.

Anyone tracking properties and final sale prices will know this.
9

Plodjfriss, Hammer of the Numpties,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 12:48:33
Where's Easy Money these days?
10

Lord_S,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 12:52:45
"just £114,549" - ok - I'll take 10 of those hovels then! How can the author put the word "just" in front of that sum of money. Is the author so incredibly wealthy that £114,549 is nothing but peanuts. That sum of money is still almost 5 times the average wage! 5 times the average wage to live in a slum with unemployed, junky neighbours! In previous times 5 times the average wage would buy a proper house in a nice location. Get a grip!
11

NYC Hibee,

edinburgh 09/10/2008 12:56:52
The council need to make it more attractive to live in the city centre. Stop crazy parking permits, rates, licencing and traffic polices.
12

ccc,

09/10/2008 13:05:12
#9

He is in denial. A place in Egypt.

#10

Totally agree. People must remember that these flats were selling for 40k in 2003. People did not earn that much less back then. At that point they were a reasonable price.

No reason for these flats to stop dropping anytime before they reach 60k. Maybe less.
13

Bob 2,

09/10/2008 13:05:29
do they mean Houses Prices fall back to a MORE REAL PRICE and not over inflated
14

Jimmy B'Umlove,

East End (Boys) 09/10/2008 13:19:56
Ah'll tell ye this - ah blame the trams!
15

Bigwull,

edinburgh 09/10/2008 13:30:58
Gorgie Dalry losing value, due to the numpties that landlords are renting to.Jeeze what a mess my stair is in now with hash-heids,entryphone door kicked in within 2 weeks of being repaied, do the landlords actually care who they rent to, or are they just interested in DSS money.
16

Bottoms Up,

Blackhall 09/10/2008 13:39:26
The Gorgie/Dalry flats are still well overpriced at £114K (condidering they were only really built for the poor people).

They will continue to drop until they reach a more affordable £60K.
17

brettgallacher,

edinburgh 09/10/2008 14:03:41
let the een tell me again how flooding people in who then flooded the property market, thus prices went through the roof is helping our economy, the biggest con or pure fraud is the hmo rental market, heres how it works one migrant buys a 3 bedroom house paying one mortgage, one council tax,if he pays £500amonth, he then rents out every room to a family, who then work 16hrs in the local shop , takeaway etc then claim tax credits ,housing benifit, floods the local schools with children and who foots this mega bill oh i the scottish people
18

hassan i sabbah,

edinburgh 09/10/2008 14:54:40
Brettgallcher.Sit down man,your a bloody tragedy.
19

Noodle doodle,

09/10/2008 15:18:06
#10, that also means the 'high' was £123k. We sold one in gorgie for 95,000 two years ago and that was the average then, so they'd still have to fall about another 20k just to get back to 2006 prices!

Thought I have to bear in mind the bulk of the higher-priced 1-bedroom flats were the new builds, and those are the ones that have really taken the hit, not your old tenement abodes.
20

Desperately Seeking.......a solution,

09/10/2008 15:21:03
#17
Stand up, your a bloody hero......
21

reader,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 15:49:14
The average price for a city centre property is now £219,000, about the same as 1 year ago but 7% less than last quarter. However, seven years ago the average price was £100,000. No matter how far they fall, these prices will stay in the range of 'absurd' for a long, long time.
22

Bottoms Up,

Blackhall 09/10/2008 16:10:19
19#

Yes I accept your point about new builds.

You can now buy a two bedroom new build flat (with en-suite)in Pilrig Heights for £140K, direct from the builder. Not a great location but there are worse.

These first sold for around £240K, and more recently about £160K.

Still, probably worth waiting until the prices drop further.

23

ccc,

09/10/2008 16:25:19
I would be shocked if 2 bed new builds in places like Pilrig Heights stay above 100k for much longer.

I do agree new builds will be hit hardest - however this view that older tenement style flats will escapte without serious falls is misgiuded in my opinion.

These flats were selling for 40k 5 years ago. In that time apart from people earning slightly more exactly what has changed.....except for a massive credit bubble that ahs now popped.

When these flats were 40k I don't remember people queuing round the block for weeks to get them - because they were a bargain. They were not a bargain. They were a reasonable price.
24

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 09/10/2008 16:31:26

Order is melting
25

Angus R,

09/10/2008 16:32:32
#23 - What new build flats were selling for £40k 5 years ago??

please oh please show some evidence before you talk utter p!sh.
26

Clen Peapus,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 16:42:18
#23 I agree with the sentiments of your post, but like #25 I think your figures are exaggerated. There were no two bedroom private flats for sale in the Pilrig Heights area five years ago for £40k.

You could buy a one bedroom flat in Portobello for just over £40k eight years ago though, early 2000.
27

Lord_S,

Dump 09/10/2008 16:45:35
#25

ccc was talking about old tenement flats in Gorgie not new builds. Please read the comments before you talk utter p!sh.
28

Angus R,

09/10/2008 16:54:14
#27 - fair enuff but i'd still like some proof that there were 2 bed tenament flats for 40k
29

mystic,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 16:56:55
nice lassie in the pic though

www.SeeingEdinburgh.co.uk
30

Clen Peapus,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 17:05:17
#28 when someone writes about Pilrig Heights then continues to refer to "these flats", it is fair to assume that they are still talking about Pilrig Heights.

Anyway, that's a secondary point. The primary issue is that there were no two bedroom tenement flats for sale in Gorgie/Dalry in 2003 for £40k. Unless there are some really very horrific former local authority properties, which were near derelict at the time of sale.
31

Lord_S,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 18:37:13
Nethouseprices shows that you could pick up flats in gorgie for £59k - 70k in 2003. Might not be £40k but still a hell of a lot cheaper than now and that was after a few years of crazy boom.
32

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 09/10/2008 18:42:56
#29

True, but why is she wearing a harness?

33

googler,

09/10/2008 19:05:33
#30 - "however this view that older tenement style flats will escapte without serious falls is misgiuded in my opinion.

These flats were selling for 40k 5 years ago"

i.e. the older tenement flats, not those mentioned in the paragraph prior to this.
34

Jimmy B'Umlove,

East End (Boys) 09/10/2008 19:32:54
Ma plan is tae pitch a tent in ma gairden, ken, if the goin' gits tae tuff likes.

Eyther that, or ah'll move in wi someone, if ye ken whit ah mean.
35

ccc,

09/10/2008 20:11:14
Cheers #27.

"however this view that older tenement style flats will escapte without serious falls is misgiuded in my opinion.

THESE flats were selling for 40k 5 years ago"

If you read it properly it is very clear what I am talking about. If not then you do now !!

Anyway my brother bought a one bed in Gorgie for less than 45k. Cant mind the exact price. Just checked and it was actually at the end of 2002. Anyway you get the point !!

Need a fair bit of work and all but still. Just trying to give some perspective here.

A similar flat last summer would have been sold for about 100k. That rise is ridiculous. Have FTB wages risen over 100% in that time ? Not even close. Maybe 20% if you are lucky.


I reckon a fair price for a 1 bed in Gorgie in similar condition today would be about 60k.

Still a long way to go people until prices hit long term normality.

Simple fact remains.

Long term average is average home = 3-4 times average local salary.

Last year in Edinburgh it was 8 times.

Prices have to half.

Yet to have an opposing argument that is based on anything other than hope.

A long term average is known as such for a very good reason..........

36

suse,

09/10/2008 20:14:32
good.
37

techpunk,

09/10/2008 20:25:21
#23 #35

ccc

"These flats were selling for 40k 5 years ago. In that time apart from people earning slightly more exactly what has changed".

this changed:

"Anyway my brother bought a one bed in Gorgie for less than 45k. Cant mind the exact price. Just checked and it was actually at the end of 2002. Anyway you get the point !!"


yes, we get the point. welcome back (!!).
38

ccc,

09/10/2008 20:48:47
#37

So what is your point ? My initial memory was of a 40k flat bought in 2003. It was actually a 45k flat bought 6 months after. Wow.....

Doesn't change the point does it ?

Houses in this city are way overpriced. Some of us have been saying this for well over a year. Some of us have been denying this for well over a year.

I don't need to point out who were spot on.

:)
39

Ian down under,

Musselburgh 09/10/2008 20:50:42
East Lothian's the place. Nice towns, less drug gangs with Bren guns or flintlock pistols, less traffic and fast electric trains to the Waverley, congestion ?? what congestion??
Cheers.make my mortgage 150%
40

easy money,

brazil 09/10/2008 21:22:29
in 2018 a one bed flat in Edinburgh will be £200k....

41

Geed,

09/10/2008 21:44:41
@ 40 wooohooo, I was begining to lose faith in you. Thankfully you are still firmly deluded. : ]

Many many good reasons why property will continue to slide in Edinburgh in the former posts. Can't see any posts suggesting property will not continue to collapse, a cold winter beckons.

Also when is a representative of Johnston press going to come on this comments section and defend themselves against allegations of property ramping and supporting vested interests to ensure Edinburgh's property values remain massively over inflated. I know why. You have no defence. Shame on you Scotsman, shame on you EEN.
42

Decent,

09/10/2008 22:03:28
#17 - You are talking rubbish. If it is an HMO flat that means he has an HMO Licence from the council which means he can only have one person per bedroom. It also means he has to follow HMO regulations i.e mains smoke alarms, fire doors etc. This can cost a landlord £20,000 + to upgrage his property. Then there is the licence fee £330 to £370 per annum. Some landlords are selling as it it not worth their while to rent anymore .
43

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 09/10/2008 23:29:30
The property price drop has only happened since Alex Salmond and his bunch of SNP clowns entered the arena - so we all know where the blame is. Next time you vote - think with intelligence. No way was the clown Salmond going to put an end to the tram project. No way has he increased police numbers. No way has he stopped the council tax. No way has he put an end to student debt. Yes a Salmond vote was a wasted vote. Fortunately I saw through his fantasy election manifesto and thought none of it was possible - shame on the clowns who thought it was all true and fell for his lies and voted for the SNP!! Well remember SNP voters - you brought us into this mess - perhaps next time you vote, please use your brain - if you have one!!
44

Decent,

09/10/2008 23:47:28
Away and stick a screw driver up your nose! Who could dae any better eh? They all polititions at the end of the day - look it up - selfish b@stards oot for themselves. Up yer bottom!
45

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 10/10/2008 01:25:23
the.worst.is.still,to.come.this.is.only.the.start
46

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/10/2008 02:30:55
"ESPC business analyst David Marshall said:"

Hmmm. He used to be "Property expert". So getting it wrong often enough does warrant a status downgrade?
47

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/10/2008 02:33:38
"However, experts said the steep drop in city centre prices did not necessarily mean it was going to be hit by a more profound long-term downturn than the rest of the Capita"

Translation: the rest of Edinburgh is going the same way.

So who exactly are these "experts"? It's not the same guy in his previous identity is it?

48

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/10/2008 02:38:04
"ESPC business analyst David Marshall said: "What you'll tend to see in any market is that if prices are going up in some areas, other areas will perform slightly worse. If that's prolonged, it may be reflective of a trend but at present I'd suggest that it's typical of the market that some areas perform better and some perform poorer. It won't be accurate at this point to say there were particular issues pertaining to the city centre"

David, here's a free clue: we're in a debt-deflation. That's normal after a credit bubble. Asset prices are going to fall. A lot. The asset which will fall most is the asset chosen as the Magic Token during the bubble. It wasn't tulips this time. It wasn't stocks either. I know, I'm giving it away, but yes, it was domestic housing.

Who'd have ever imagined?
49

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/10/2008 02:45:09
#3 Daff reckons:

"It must be great to have all this prior knowledge of what was going to happen. This has never happened before"

True. Well, apart from the Tulip bubble, the South Seas Bubble, The Mississippi Bubble, The Canal Stock Bubble, The Railroads Bubble, and the Wall Street Bubble of 1929.

Even if we limit it to property we could look for a very similar tale in the 1837 crash in the US, the Miami housing crash in the US, The Mississippi Bubble, and the Artisan's Mortgages Bust in the UK 1911 (house prices fell by 90%).

It's happened before. It's true to pattern so far. It'll happen again (best guess around 2080).
50

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/10/2008 02:48:43
Liz figures: "

Yes, so are they now telling us that Edinburgh is no longer immune? Still some way to go though, £114,000 for a one bedroom flat in Gorgie is still on the high side."

Worry not young lady. Typical peak to trough fall in the primary asset in a debt-deflation is two-thirds. Given that this is the biggest credit bubble in history, I'd be astonished if it didn't go further than that.
51

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/10/2008 02:53:38
#6 Liz: Yes, the FSA warned. It's worse than you think though. Mervyn King admitted that when he was head of the Bank of England, he and Gordon Brown exacerbated the housing bubble by cutting interest rate to goose it. The intention was to prevent a recession.

Greenspan and Bernanke did the same thing in gthe US in 1998, 200, 2001, and 2003.

The trouble with preventing a debt-deflationary recession is that more and more debt gets heaped upon the system.

Now, after ten years of putting it off, they can't delay it further.

They'll go down in history as the men who prevented a recession at the cost of a depression.
52

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/10/2008 02:56:57
#9 is curious: "Where's Easy Money these days?"

Oh, I think he's arranging finance to invest in those flats in Gorgie which will be worth three squillion quid in only two years...
53

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/10/2008 02:58:47
Japan down 10%. Looks like Brown and Paulson were wrong: we can't borrow our way out of debt.

Who could possibly have known that?
54

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/10/2008 03:09:31
#35 ccc: Good analysis, but in a debt-deflation, prices don't just fall to trend, they undershoot roughly as much as they overshoot.

That won't last of course and there will be a move to trend. However, at the bottom, lending won't be available at any price. Only those with cash preserved through the bust will be able to take advantage.

Short form: Sell everything. Pay all debts. Hold cash and gold in safe places (could be that won't be banks for much longer). Buy at 10% at the bottom.
55

Linmal,

Livingston 10/10/2008 11:16:40
I know some people see property as a way of making money but I, and many like me, treat it as a home. Obviously its nice if it increases in value, something to pass on to the family, but we need more affordable housing for young people to have a chance in this life, not greedy property speculators to line their own pockets. A house is only worth what someone will pay for it and its high time these crazy prices were capped.
56

easy money,

brazil 10/10/2008 13:26:09
we'll be in a rsisng market again in less than 2 years....better mortgage deals, serious pent up demand in Edinburgh will drive prices upwards again....

the ghettos in Georgie & Leith may suffer in the short term but even these fleapits still command over £100k in the "so called" bad times....i dont think we've got anything to worry about....

i've never coined in so much rent since the early 90's so this while media creation has been good for me...long may it continue...

deluded fools like poo, ccc and the gaylord_s remind me of the types that told me property was finished back in the 90's....sorry guys this is Edinburgh and even Pilton and Muirhouse are still selling for over £100k....

the base rates will tumble and the prices will rise agin in 2010....
57

Lord_S,

Mexico 10/10/2008 16:25:28
Easy - get a job instead of sitting with your hand out begging from your tennants you lazy slob. Oh, and remember to take that medication.

 

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