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Orange Order loses bid to overturn marching ban



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Published Date: 20 June 2008
THE Orange Order has lost its legal bid to overturn a council-imposed marching ban, after a sheriff rejected claims the ban violated their human rights.
The Midlothian District Loyal Orange Institution of Scotland appealed after Midlothian Council banned an afternoon procession in Penicuik next Saturday afternoon (June 28) for fears it could lead to public disorder.

The local authority agreed to a
llow a 15-minute march at 9.15am but voted against the organisation's bid to hold a second parade at 4.15pm the same day.

Councillors took the decision at a special committee meeting on May 6 after hearing that marchers were drinking and urinating in public at the last afternoon parade in the town in 2002.

The order complained the decision went against their right of "freedom of peaceful assembly" as set out in Article 11 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

But after a one-day hearing at Edinburgh Sheriff Court today, Sheriff Kenneth Maciver decided the council had respected their human rights by allowing the morning parade and threw out the appeal.

Outside court, members of the Order said they intend to appeal to the Court of Session next week.

Midlothian Council has agreed that up to 100 marchers, including a 30-piece flute band, can take part in the morning procession, which celebrates the 318th anniversary of the battle of the Boyne.

The Order had wanted to march past the town's Sacred Heart Roman Catholic Church but agreed to change their route on police advice.

Jonathan Brown, counsel for the Order, argued it was annual tradition for the Order to march twice in one day in towns around Midlothian.

But Midlothian Council solicitor Richard McMeeken said the local authority had tried to balance the interests of the general public against the right of the Order to march.

Sheriff Maciver said he believed the council's decision to ban the afternoon march was "not an unreasonable exercise of their discretion".

"I think its fair for the council to have a degree of knowledge about what may occur on or around a specific celebration of this distant battle," said the sheriff.

"It has a position in Scottish society which will be familiar to the committee which was faced with making a decision on it.

"I cannot find that there is substance in the appeal and accordingly I dismiss it," he added.

The sheriff awarded expenses in favour of Midlothian Council.

Outside court Robert McLean, spokesman for the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland, said they would appeal to the Court of Session and were hopeful of a decision ahead of next Saturday.

"We are obviously disappointed with the sheriff's decision. We have just spoken to our legal team and we plan to appeal next week," said Mr McLean.

"It's everybody's right to peaceful assembly and for a sheriff to overrule that is wrong.





The full article contains 484 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 20 June 2008 4:14 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Midlothian
 
1

alex paterson,

edinburgh 20/06/2008 16:57:30
Good,these marches only incite trouble anyway,banging a big drum trying to burst the skin as they pass a catholic church.
2

erse detector,

20/06/2008 16:59:38
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA .
3

roberto,

20/06/2008 17:13:08
you have to admit the tunes aren't half catchy
4

True Jambo,

20/06/2008 17:24:16
Clowns.
5

,

20/06/2008 17:38:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

Lothian Unionist,

20/06/2008 17:38:56
Didn't take long for the usual insults and uneducated opinions to start manifesting themselves on this board.

Be rest assured that the sheriff has made a mistake here and the decision will be overturned after appeal.

Civil & Religious Liberties are for all of the population of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to enjoy, no matter the faith.

People who celebrate sanctions such as this are probably better off in Castro's Cuba.
7

Sam.B.O.,

Edinburgh 20/06/2008 17:40:12
Just read an article about thousands of "Orangemen" at a football game in another country having a drink and enjoying themselves with no trouble whatsoever - Orange order Rangers bampots ? - no the Netherlands ay Euro 2008 of course.
8

cheeses_of_nazareth,

Edinburgh 20/06/2008 17:45:42
Don't the Danish army have a group of musicians on bicycles that perform at the Tattoo? Maybe that would be a less aggressive way for the Lodge to celebrate some foreign battle between foreign kings.

Me? I'd pay to see the Orange Walk on pogo sticks. Rememeber the Battle of the Boing Boing Boing...
9

knightmason,

Stateside 20/06/2008 17:58:38
The Orange Order are celebrating not just the Battle of the Boyne but the Glorious Revolution and the Enlightenment that gave birth to modern democracies, the rule of law, political and religious liberty for all (including Roman Catholics) and those things we take for granted today. Orangemen are Christians, supporters of the Protestant faith, and are patriotic and loyal citizens and it is a sad day when people of this high caliber are denied the right to walk down the Queen’s highway.
10

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

20/06/2008 18:03:44
I still think that if they dropped the fifes and drums and did some Morris Dancing instead, we'd look much more favourably on these events.
11

Lothian Unionist,

20/06/2008 18:14:47
#10

Therein lies the problem, you would be quite willing too see a parade walk down the street if it was 'morris dancers' Why the problem with Orangemen?
12

Yada,

20/06/2008 18:18:24
Didn't take long for the usual insults and uneducated opinions to start manifesting themselves on this board.
Be rest assured that the sheriff has made exactly the right decision here and the decision will be upheld after appeal.
Civil & Religious Liberties are for all of the population of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to enjoy (including the right not to have bigots disturbing the peace), no matter the faith even though Mr McLean tried to convince Midlothian Council that the Orange Order was not a sectarian organisation.
People who celebrate battles that took place 319 years ago and 200 miles away such as this are probably better off in Castro's Cuba. Or possibly Belfast.

#9
You are joking, right?
Backed by Vatican money and with the blessing of the Pope, William III brought a degree of stability to England. If you lot are an example of the Enlightenment, can we go back to the Middle Ages, please? You all keep rabbiting on about Roman Catholics, for all the world as if it was only Roman Catholics that can no longer tolerate your disruptive bigotry.
Get a grip, son. Apart from the few remaining cretins that actually walk around looking like throwbacks to the 1920s with their paunches and their bowler hats, the only people who turn out are your alleged supporters in their alcoholic haze who think the whole thing is a just an excuse to go round insulting people.
And nobody is denying you the right to walk down the Queen's highway. If you want to march (and your right of "assembly" that your mouthpiece McLean is forever on about does NOT include the right to disrupt traffic) then go march out in the countryside somewhere where you're out of the way of decent people who would rather not be hassled by your drunken supporters or have to endure their insults, their foul language, and their vomit.
13

King Rex,

Canada 20/06/2008 18:27:13
If there was people urinating on the street as claimed, then arrest them. However, shutting down the whole march over a few bad apples is moronic.
Using this logic, we might as well shut down the St. Patrick's Day parades as well because they feature bands with names of IRA terrorists or have IRA terrorists as their marshalls as that is offensive to the loyal subjects of the Queen.
Fact is many uneducated will claim this a religious parade celebrating Protestant v. Catholic. It isn't that at all. Those who believe that need to be educated in the true history of the events of the Boyne. As stated, the Pope gave his blessing and support behind William III because James and his French counterpart were embarking on the verge of tyranny and even planned an attempted coupe on the Vatican to move it to France.
Those who continue to slander it with false history need to be shouted down and those who set a bad example at the these parades need to be legally dealt with.
14

knightmason,

Stateside 20/06/2008 18:29:07
I simply can not see the harm in passing by an empty Chapel.

The 12th of July is a day for all Britons to celebrate. Had James been successful it would have been a sad day for democracy. I guess many people are uninformed and don’t know that William’s Dutch Blue Guards were staunchly Catholic and carried the Papal banner against James at the Battle of the Boyne or that the Pope was in the Alliance with William against Louis with whom James had thrown in his lot. People are simply misinformed about the Orange Order.

Celebrating the William’s victory at the Battle of the Boyne is NOT sectarian.

The Orange Order is not anti-Catholic; we are pro-Protestant and embrace civil rights and liberties for everyone. The O.O. is no more anti-catholic than the K of C and other Catholic fraternities are anti-Protestant.
15

Jingling Geordie,

Sunshine on Leith 20/06/2008 18:54:04
#14
The Orange Order is not anti-Catholic!!! Aye, and Bin Laden isn't anti-west.
Well done to Penicuik perhaps Edinburgh can follow this bold move by our country cousins and disinfect our fine city of the scourge of these marches both Orange and Conolly.
If Robert McLean's next appeal fails (as seems likely) then I recommend he take his case to the Interplanatery Appeals Council on the planet Zeus 7 light years away.
Do these people celebrate and march on the date of the Battle of Bannockburn? of course not, yet it is the most famous battle in the history of our small country..............nuff said.
16

Jingling Geordie,

Sunshine on Leith 20/06/2008 18:54:34
#14
The Orange Order is not anti-Catholic!!! Aye, and Bin Laden isn't anti-west.
Well done to Penicuik perhaps Edinburgh can follow this bold move by our country cousins and disinfect our fine city of the scourge of these marches both Orange and Conolly.
If Robert McLean's next appeal fails (as seems likely) then I recommend he take his case to the Interplanatery Appeals Council on the planet Zeus 7 light years away.
Do these people celebrate and march on the date of the Battle of Bannockburn? of course not, yet it is the most famous battle in the history of our small country..............nuff said.
17

King Rex,

Canada 20/06/2008 18:58:05
Well, I guess the news of me being anti-Catholic will have to be told to the man who was best man at my wedding...Portuguese Roman Catholic. Or his uncle, who happens to be a priest employed at the Vatican. Or many of the other workers and friends I have and had on both sides of the pond that were Catholics.
18

Coghill,

North 20/06/2008 19:43:43
#16

I am an Orangeman and am not anti-Catholic and have dear and close friends who I love & respect who happen to be Catholic. They have a right to their religion and I have a right to mine. I resent being called a bigot and I think those who are accusing the O.O. of bigotry are the real bigots and it is a shame.

Bannockburn is great day in Scotland’s proud history and Scottish Orangemen are just as proud of Scotland’s heroes as anyone else. It was also a great day when a Scottish King brought the crowns of Scotland and England together. I just wonder how different things would have been if he moved the capital to Edinburgh rather than moving to London.

The Battle of the Boyne furthered the ideals that are written into the Declaration of Abroath only not just for Scotland but for the whole of Britain and laid the way for a Union that has been beneficial to all. The Magna Charta, The Declaration of Abroath, the Act of Union all things we should celebrate.

“It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” – Abroath 1320
19

Jimmy the Pie,

20/06/2008 19:50:41
The only thing I'll be celebrating about the Act Of Union is when we leave it.

It can't come quick enough!!!
20

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

21/06/2008 00:21:28
I-ll tell you what lads, next time you decide to march down a road why dont you look cheerful ? Why dont you hand out balloons to kids ?

Is it a celebration or are you truly just a bunch of sad numpties living 300 years ago ?

Up to you , you decide. If you march about looking like a bunch of nippy bigoted inbreds then what response would you like us to have ?
21

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

21/06/2008 00:34:40
13 Maybe in Canada. In scotland Bigotry is alive and well and mostly living in West Lothian and further west , rearing its head every time a certain football match occurs.

I repeat , if its a celebration - look like your happy. Have it in a field with a marquee , live music , kids games whatever you want. Be aware that now - in the 21 century the UK is a secular society which doesnt really want you rubbing it in peoples noses by parading down roads where you arent percieved as being very nice.

Compromise. And for Gods sake, try to look happy.
22

jimb4abobor2,

Edinburgh 21/06/2008 03:29:14
just another sad story about rites in the UK ? if goverment and everone else had there way there would be no rites anymore. just shows another budget deficet in the law for protection well if we dont have the march then well save money as officers wont have to attend better to ban it than run it and they always think on the outcome never the amusement. pity they did'nt think about that when they introduced 24hr drinking causes a lot more problems than a march.
jim
23

Yada,

21/06/2008 15:59:43
OK, knightmason! Just suppose for a minute I accept you're not anti-Catholic and you're not a bigot. Why do all Orange marches have to go past Catholic churches? Why is it that every route proposed that doesn't go past a Catholic church is always "unacceptable" to your pal McLean? Why is that over the years local Councils have had to impose conditions banning the playing of music when you all pass a Catholic church because you insisted on winding up the volume? Then they had to ban the beating of the Lambeg because the drummer was just about taking the skin off it? So now it's a side drum to keep the beat only and the bandsmen can mouth "**** the Pope" as they go past instead. AND don't tell me they don't; I've watched them.
And where does it say in the European Convention that you can bus 5,000 people into a town with a population of 18,000, about 6 of whom actually attend Orange meetings (which is what you wanted to do in Penicuik a couple of years ago) so that you can disrupt everybody's Saturday by what any neutral onlooker would describe as deliberate provocation?
And if it isn't the bandsmen that are causing the trouble it's their fishwife-mouthed womenfolk and the grubby little hangers-on who are there to get pissed and insult everyone.
By all means march if you have to. Just go and do it in the countryside somewhere where the only animals (apart from yourselves) are the sheep. And stop pretending that organising a mass demonstration (sorry about that word) outside my front door has anything to do with your human rights. Presumably my human rights to the peaceful occupation of my property don't count for anything.
I know my history and I also know that the only places in the UK where there is this sort of arrogant presumption about "human rights" and the right to screw up law-abiing people's lives every July are the Central Belt and Northern Ireland.
South of the Border you'd be laughed out of court so don't pretend this is for the benefit of anyone but
24

Orangemedic,

USA 21/06/2008 20:25:38
I'm an American Protestant and I have to say, I find the goings-on in Scotalnd and Ireland very disturbing. The Parades only seem to be an excuse for bigotry on both sides, but the OO must take the blame because they are responsible for bringing people out on to the streets. They have watching people urinite in front of little kids for decades now and done nothing. I heard one comment from an Orangeman calling Catholics "the unwashed", yet he seems to have no problem allowing his childern to follow hoards of people drinking and openly urinating in public.

How can old people possibly enjoy the summer months when this is going on?

Most of the people on these parades have no knowledge or interest in Christianity, its just an excuse to annoy their neighbours
25

Fanling,

Switzerland 22/06/2008 20:52:33
#18 Coghill,North

It's Arbroath NOT "Abroath".
26

Coghill,

North 23/06/2008 17:58:57
24

You are NOT Orangemedic.

I know the guy and he is an American Orangeman and it is pathetic that you have to play games and impersonate good people like him.

18

A simple typographical error that does not detract from the substance of my post.
27

fresian,

Dubai 24/06/2008 09:24:17
I can impersonate an orangeman, everytime a break wind!
28

celtic4,

USA 05/07/2008 22:53:18
I live in the United States, and have read about the Orangemen. And everything I have read underlines the fact that the OO IS anti-Catholic. I am not Catholic but I do not march against them. Freedom is what this country is based upon, and for freedom we shall die. All religions have their rights. I am glad I am not kin to the OO.
29

Ian down under,

Kawerau 07/07/2008 04:59:54
What is patriotic to Scotland about celebrating a Dutchman who was brought in to subdue the local population after they killed the sitting [Scottish descended] monarchy.
This is not about democracy, religious belief or anything else.
This is simply strutting and bullying.
Expression of religious belief is a basic right but this strutting is not an example of that.
I have no religious affilliations and I have family members who are masons, orangemen and roman catholics.
30

hassan i sabbah,

edinburgh 08/07/2008 12:39:06
Knightmason "sad day when people of this high caliber are denied the right to walk down the Queen’s highway." Obviously not been to an orange walk in Scotland recently!Daft goatlover;)
31

Goskun,

12/07/2008 16:59:13
"June 28th"...anyone, or am I missing the point here. ?
32

Old Cartha Boy,

15/07/2008 14:11:28
Knightmason "sad day when people of this high caliber are denied the right to walk down the Queen’s highway." Obviously not been to an orange walk in Scotland recently

I think this needs explaining. I have seen the police in Glasgow stand idly by, feet away, when the "stewards" of an OW have thumped and kicked a citizen who tried to cross the road between bands...barbaric stuff!

 

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