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Cardownie calls for 'common sense' over bus firm pram ban



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Published Date: 08 August 2008
DEPUTY council leader Steve Cardownie today called for a "common sense" solution to Lothian Buses' controversial ban on prams.
Pressure is mounting on the council-owned transport firm to abandon its policy of ordering drivers to refuse to carry mothers with rigid prams to ensure there is space for wheelchairs.

The company insists the move is to comply with the Disability
Discrimination Act, but it is the only major bus operator in Scotland to enforce such a strict ruling.

Mothers have started a letter-writing campaign, and today the Evening News has printed a petition coupon to allow everyone to have their say.

Cllr Cardownie today said he was perplexed by the situation, and called for drivers to be allowed to use their own judgement.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it," he said. "I would have thought this was a matter of common sense. I have certainly seen more people on the buses with prams than in a wheelchair.

"But, of course, parents choose to put their child in a traditional pram and wheelchair users don't have a choice. So if a driver lets a mother on, and three stops down the road a wheelchair user gets on, the wheelchair user should take priority.

"That requires goodwill on the parents' behalf, but I'm sure most parents would understand the situation, and there would also be pressure from other passengers."

Disability groups have also called for a similar "common sense" approach.

However, it is known that drivers have reported several instances where mothers have been asked to leave a bus to make room for a wheelchair user, but refused.

Lothian Buses recently posted pictures in all its bus depots informing drivers which type of buggy to let on. The information is also available on its website. Traditional prams and those with rigid shopping trays are completely banned, while "travel systems" that can be folded are allowed on only if the bus is not crowded.

Folding buggies, including twin buggies, should always be allowed on board.

A group on social networking website Facebook, called Mums need to use Lothian Buses too, has so far attracted around 90 members, who have all been urged to write to the firm.

Close to 50 letters have so far been received by the company, which a spokesman said were split 50/50 over the ban.

Caroline Burgess, 27, one of the campaigners, said: "We're starting a letter-writing campaign. We've asked everybody in the (Facebook] group to write. We never really wanted this to become a big issue, but we just want them to come to a better agreement.

"I think now's the time for Lothian Buses to back down and say they're sorry, they've made a mistake."

Edinburgh West MP John Barrett has also written to the firm, asking managers to allow prams and non-folding buggies to use the space when not occupied by a wheelchair.

But Lothian Buses has insisted its policy is in line with anti-discrimination legislation.

A spokesman said: "In order to ensure that wheelchairs can be accommodated on our vehicles, we are unable to carry prams as they cannot be folded.

"We can, however, carry one unfolded buggy if the wheelchair space is unoccupied."

'They've treated me unfairly'A MOTHER has criticised Lothian Buses' refusal to give her a full refund for her season ticket, which she says she is unable to use due to the pram ban.

Caroline Burgess, 27, from Barnton, says she is "disgusted and appalled" by her treatment after writing to cancel her direct debit.

Although the bus company has agreed to waive a £20 cancellation fee, she still has to pay for the Ridacard up to August 11.

But she says she has been unable to use it since the ban was enforced in mid-July.

She said: "I feel they have treated me very unfairly.

"I have only used the card a handful of times since the ban on prams was enforced."

She added "This whole situation has caused me a lot of distress and upset. I have been unable to see friends and get around the city with ease."

Stephen Ryan, Lothian Buses' commercial manager, said he was sorry Mrs Burgess felt she was had been treated unfairly.






The full article contains 716 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 August 2008 10:04 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Lothian Buses
 
1

Skip McClendon,

08/08/2008 12:04:49
Knownothing is slow off the mark with the comments today. 4x4 broken down again maybe.
2

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

08/08/2008 12:09:42
The current policy that Lothian Buses has IS common sense: selfish parents who insist on purchasing monster prams are NOT displaying common sense.

Asking such parents to get off the bus for a wheelchair user simply isn't practical. For a start, I am certain that many such parents would hurl abuse at the driver, and refuse to leave the bus. The simple issue therefore is to ban huge prams that cannot be folded, and only allow buggies and prams that actually take into account other bus users.

Well done Lothian Buses for having a clear policy (now clearly displayed on their website), and well done for providing more low-floor buses than almost any other bus company in the UK, that make lives easier for all of Edinburgh's DECENT citizens.

BOO HISS to Hazel Mollison for whipping up a nonsensical frenzy!
3

Sarcasm,

08/08/2008 12:12:06
Maybe All blowing needs the 4x4 for her pram.

Can't be easy trying to hold down her Greggs' delivery job in her "4x4".
4

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 12:31:10
#2 That is a good point - if parents actually did what they said they would do there would never have been any problem; there was an incident the other day with a parent who hurled abuse at the driver simply for asking them whether their buggy folded (in addition to the incidents the drivers themselves have reported), never mind asking them to actually follow the rules, which are there for the benefit of all passengers. Lothian Buses have to cope with all passengers as well as obey the law, and they are being sensible in both cases.
5

Matt there,

Somewhere 08/08/2008 12:32:49
For goodness sake! There's room for a pram and a wheelchair!
6

Mallory,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 12:33:53
Fold these buggies and stop being so selfish - or pay double as two spaces are being used
7

Dorian,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 12:36:12
"That requires goodwill on the parents' behalf, but I'm sure most parents would understand the situation, and there would also be pressure from other passengers."

Unless of course the mother is a fag smoking chav bam pot.

Mother's should get a free pass to get on another bus if asked to make space by exiting the bus for a wheelchair user.
8

Embra boy,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 12:39:17
#6 Yes - buggies do fold, and they're OK on buses, the problem is rigid (old fashioned) prams which don't fold. It's all in the article!
9

alex paterson,

edinburgh 08/08/2008 12:40:13
Try pushing the prams you would be surprised how easy it is,and its great exercise.
10

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

08/08/2008 12:40:14
Mr Harrington - I quite agree. I have been horrified to see parents hurl abuse at drivers - once even just because there was already an unfolded pushchair on the bus, and the subsequent parent didn't want to fold hers!

It is not the job of Lothian Bus drivers to have abuse hurled at them, and the more that Lothian Buses display their policy on prams/pushchairs/buggies the better. Hopefully then other passengers can offer support in such situations (even though of course we should never have to!).

It really beggars belief - Lothian Buses has spent a fortune on new buses that not only allow wheelchair access, but make access easier for everyone, including parents with children. And what do a group of parents do on Facebook? Moan, moan, moan!

Ten years ago, you simply weren't able to get a buggy unfolded on to a bus, and parents somehow managed to cope, as they are forced to do in other cities where companies like First and Stagecoach run vehicles that are twenty or more years old!
11

Simon M,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 12:40:44
Turncoat Cardownie should keep his views to himself. If he agrees with the notion that wheelchair users should get priority, then what is his problem? Just trying to get his name in the paper, that's all.
12

Embra boy,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 12:42:32
Hear hear! After all, I'm not allowed to use my cigarettes on the bus, so why should mothers be allowed to use prams?

Incidentally, this is all irrelevant - I'm sure that the trams will accommodate everyone!
13

the dog,

embra 08/08/2008 12:55:17
simple solution
******** BAN THE BLOODY LOT O THEM ********
these spaces are designed to carry wheelchairs not buggies end of story and end of confusion for all concerned
14

KTCB41,

08/08/2008 13:31:43
I notice that they report the Evening News has printed a petition coupon to allow everyone to have their say that, I trust that means that those in favour of the wheelchair space being used by wheelchair will be accomodated in this "coupon".

Not clear why this story requires two reporters?
15

Florentine_Pogen,

08/08/2008 13:44:52
Cardownie - biggest oxygen thief & expenses fiddler in Edinburgh. Of course this post will be deleted, notwithstanding the fact that he had to "hand back" some of his ill gotten gains a while back after being rumbled.

He'd do very well at Glasgow City Cooncil.
16

LUVMACITY,

iN THE LOBBY 08/08/2008 13:45:57
Caroline Burgess wants a rebate on her bus pass? Why should she when the service she paid for is still available to her. On purchasing her ticket from Lothian buses I don't believe a condition was that she could take her pram on board.
17

Labradoodle,

08/08/2008 13:49:15
Is this story STILL going on?? I'm surprised folk still have the energy to comment on this.
18

alex paterson,

edinburgh 08/08/2008 13:54:48
Steve Cardownie is a very clever man and knows exactly what he is doing,gon yersel STEVE.
19

Spout,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 14:23:47
#16 - well said.

She got the £20 cancellation fee waived - put that towards an easily collapsible buggy that can easily go on the bus. When my daughter was a baby everyone had to do it. And she's only 11 now!

Can't believe the EEN is giving oxygen to some of the serial whingers in this "campaign".

Fact is if the buggy can't be folded, its banned from the bus. Get used to it.
20

PaulB,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 14:44:15
This is such a boring story - get a folding pram end of story - no need for petitions etc just give us all a break!
21

edna b,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 14:45:32
Lothian buses' has this ban in place to protect the safety of ALL passengers no matter their age. If a baby is in a pram it is not restrained at all,were the bus to brake sharply the baby would be flung forward and run the risk of serious injury. Then EEN would a story worth printing. Finaaly the pictue on page 9 of tonights edition clearly shows a mother standing with a BUGGY not a pram.
22

Bertie The Bat,

08/08/2008 14:50:30
Looks like the trams stories are having a rest for a while.Now its the prams stories.Sheesh!
23

Russell339,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 15:06:37
I have to laugh, Caroline Burgess from Barnton !!! Barnton, hahaha, she doens't live anywhere near Barnton..... try Clermiston, or perhaps Drylaw, or even Bramble Drive......Barnton, how comical.
24

,

08/08/2008 15:25:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
25

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

08/08/2008 15:39:46
"Try pushing the prams you would be surprised how easy it is,and its great exercise"

I've had this great idea which will make them easier to push: put wheels on them, one at each corner.

I'm off to patent it now...
26

allknowing,

08/08/2008 16:38:56
"called for drivers to be allowed to use their own judgement."

Thats where the problem lies, they havn't got any!
27

Incandescent,

08/08/2008 16:47:30
I notice Skip McClendon recent appearance on the boards coincides with the disappearance of our own "devil's advocate", Duncan in Edinburgh. Coincidence?
28

Incandescent,

08/08/2008 16:47:43
McClendon's even
29

CarolineB,

BARTON - EDINBURGH!!! 08/08/2008 17:09:50
23 – Who do you think you are? Why do you think I live somewhere other than Barnton? Actually don’t answer that. I imagine that you probably think that I don’t have a job, don’t have an education and don’t have a husband – well I’ve actually got all three.

You carry on hiding behind your online persona.

More to the point what difference would it make if I lived in another area? Would I have less right to use public transport?

Get a grip.
30

CarolineB,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 17:18:05
21 - the picture shows a car seat on the chassis of a pram. I have been refused entry using this.
31

Axelfols,

Bay Jing 08/08/2008 17:21:48
What happens if a wheelchair wants on the bus and there's already a wheelchair on board?? Wait for another bus, same as a parent and buggy!! Eureka!!!
32

Labradoodle,

Sunny Lenzie - happy birthday to ME! 08/08/2008 17:24:29
#23 you seem to think you know a lot about this lady - buses appear to be the least of her problems - I think she may have a stalker on her hands too..
33

Labradoodle,

waiting to board a bus with a bouncy castle - I do 08/08/2008 17:32:25
Why don't we just strip out all the chairs from the bottom deck - then we can all fit in. Everyone would be standing, well except babies and wheelchair users - they would be sitting in their respective mode of transport.
Problem solved - can the EEN now start writing new, exciting stories as this one is boring me now.
34

Florentine_Pogen,

08/08/2008 17:56:16
Don't know why wheelchair-bound folks would want to get on a bus in Edinburgh seeing as it takes 2 hours to get anywhere. They'd be quicker just pushing themselves along to wherever they want to get to.

They could also have wee pavement races with the clinically obese single mums pushing their buggies laden with Desiree, Chardonnay and JeldWen plus 14 bags o' messages fae Farmfoods.
35

,

08/08/2008 18:54:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
36

lothian bus driver,

08/08/2008 18:58:03
allknowing,08/08/2008 16:38:56
"called for drivers to be allowed to use their own judgement."

Thats where the problem lies, they havn't got any!

we are not allowed our own judgement if we were we would let you all on with what ever you liked as we could not give a monkeys but we do like the £10.45 an hour so we follow what we are told to do. up ye ya muppet.
37

allknowing,

08/08/2008 19:27:46
£10.45, WOW, big earner you!!!!

So if your bosses told you to drive off a cliff, you would do it? If they told you to drive a double decker up Ravelstone dyke, around the very tight corner at Mary Erskines, encroaching the road of other users, you would do it. Hold on, you do. Ya muppet!!

Enjoy the low life passengers. Bet its fun waking up in the morning.
38

elayne,

08/08/2008 19:34:09
why not ban smelly people from buses instead,it makes sense!
39

Bravetart,

08/08/2008 19:39:00
My ex used to work for Lothian buses, you can dream of £10.45 per hour!

Here is an idea, why don't the wheelchair users fold their chairs down...oh wait. See there lies the point; we mums have a choice, we can carry our child and take a smaller, lighter, easier to manage buggy rather than a huge cumbersome thing. I speak as the mum of twins, who didn't have that option with two small babies to carry.

It is all about having a little consideration for others.
40

Jambo 3,

EDINBURGH 08/08/2008 19:48:57
Being a regular user of LRT buses I have never seen a wheelchair on a bus - What's all the fuss about ? Bring on all the nurseries and their prams !!!
41

Capitalistic,

edin 08/08/2008 20:11:43
Buses where designed to take wheelchairs after years of no access and no way to get around the city. Then all of a sudden there where spaces for wheelchairs that were also usefull for taking prams. Now pram users are saying that the space on the bus is for them, and, they have lost the capacity to fold the prams and cannot get around without the wheelchair spaces. Away and brake your leg then try to get up to Princess St on the bus with your wheelchair. These spaces where made for folks who will not walk for a while, or, in lot's of cases not walk at all. A few years ago there where no places for prams and people got on with it (including myself with my kids) These spaces on the bus are for wheelchairs you selfish bunch of chancers. Get a life fold your prams. These spaces are for those who need to move about and cannot access other forms of transport. This is a case of I'm ok stuff the disabled. Great society we live in.
42

Paulie9,

Musselburgh 08/08/2008 20:18:50
I'm sorry but why should decent parents who would be quite happy to step off a bus in favour of a wheelchair customer be penalised for the bad behavious of a minority of "bam pot chavs"? By the same token why let on all young people when a significant minority are going to play their MP3s at full volume and ring the bell 30 times as they get off? What is the problem with having a big sign on the bus saying come on in to all prams but warning parents that if a wheelchair needs on they have to get off? Other bus companies do it and Lothian is in the minority, digging their heels in and looking increasingly stupid as they pander to folk like knownothing who despises everything about buses anyway!! And Alex Paterson might try walking a pram more than 3 miles. Sometimes it's nice for a mum without her own car and who may be bored out of her skin stuck in the same edge of town community to get into Edinburgh once in a while. Why is Lothian denying public transport to a significant portion of the community?
43

jdships,

08/08/2008 20:26:45
Cardownie and common sense just don't go well together !!!!!!!!!!!!
44

Dr DoGood,

edinburgh 08/08/2008 20:28:18
Once again the EEN has got involved in something it knows nothing about,this paper creates an image of people doing something wrong trying to sell more papers and everyone falls for it everytime,lets ask Mr Rodden if he has ever attended any training on how to drive a bus or n what the DDA rules are for a bus driver,infact lets ask him if even drives a car or lives in Edinburgh,if you ask me I think he is a complete pillock who needs to get out there in the real world before telling others what to do,while on the subject of the EEN lets start a campaign to stop their delivery vans stopping in bus stops and using bus lanes,back to mainpoint of so called story ,LOW FLOOR BUSES were designed to make easy access for disabled passengers nowhere in the design or the carrying capacity as shown on board each vehicle is a pram or buggy mentioned,each vehicle clearly states as it has to by law the cappicty of that vehicle and if the driver allows the to be overloaded he is liable to prosicution and on each vehicle it staes ONE WHEELCHAIR thats it end of story no more arguements ok
45

Dr DoGood,

edinburgh 08/08/2008 20:33:48
As for Cardownie he represents the same council that informed me only yesterday that their Parking Attendants do not target easy pray by going up and down side streets but constantly patrol main roads like the Bridges and Surgeons Hall area where no illegal parked vehicles ever park without getting a ticket, this includes the Balmoral Hotel etc Hello council get a life a get out there
46

C Blackstock,

Edinburgh 10/08/2008 00:37:37
This had been blown out of all proportion!! I think the EEN must have had a lack of material when they came up with this one and I also think a lot of you have far to much time on your hands. I am a first time mother who does not drive.. lives outwith city centre and is reliant upon Lothian buses to take me on journeys which are NOT within walking distance. The policy from Lothian buses has not changed in nine years. I have never had trouble using the buses in Edinburgh with my pram and I am very grateful to Lothian buses for the service they provide me with, it has always been satisfactory. The majority of parents I believe would get off the bus to allow a wheelchair access as I know I certainly would, and I take great offence from those that beg to differ. Lothian buses have a clear policy on this matter and I can't believe this story has developed,therefore worrying mothers with prams needlessly!!I am very grateful that the service is there and thank all the drivers for using their discretion when it has come to myself and my daughter travelling with Lothian buses!!
47

Daddykoolest,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 21:14:38
Hazel Mollinson seems to have the bit between her teeth and won't let this go. Her next "story" concerns a disabled child, while they don't enjoy the same benefits as their adult counterparts are seemingly stuck between two stools.

It doesn't help that Caroline B and other have helped back Lothian Buses into a corner and that really there is no easy solution.

Interestingly she have stuck rigidly to championing the mother's cause while ignoring the plight of the disabled.

Lothian Buses should be applauded for investing on low floor buses, switching to single door buses and creating priority seating for old people and disabled.

Perhaps after she has stopped pursuing this cause, she should try shifting her attention to those who have been dignified and silent throughout.

 

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