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Bus chiefs eye plan to scrap £1.20 flat fare ticket system

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Published Date: 05 May 2009
BOSSES at Lothian Buses are considering plans to scrap the popular flat fare system but insisted there will be no further ticket price rises this year.
The firm's managing director, Ian Craig, said it would be "difficult to maintain" the single price journey in years to come, and said the firm had looked into the possibility of introducing a two-tier setup.

Lothian Buses has blamed the tram works for contributing to a fall in passenger numbers, which led the company to cut a number of services last year and saw the price of a single fare rise from £1 to £1.20. Mr Craig said market research had shown the company that there would be resistance from passengers to paying more than £1.20 for a single ticket.

He said there would be no more fare increases this year, but hinted that a cheaper fare could be brought in for shorter journeys at some point in the future.

He said: "Flat fares have proved incredibly popular with customers, but as they start escalating upwards it will become unattractive.

"We are concerned that we are at, or close to, that point.

"It's going to be difficult to maintain the flat fares system in the years ahead.

"Ninety-five per cent of all our revenues come from our customers. Clearly, it's vital that we continue to offer them best value."

After so many profitable years, the 2008 accounts due in June are expected to show that the main bus network ran at a loss, and Lothian only stayed in surplus thanks to its tourist buses and the Airlink airport service.

The company is also understood to have hedged its fuel costs at $90 per oil barrel until September, striking the deal when fuel costs were much higher than they are now.

That cost £3 million in 2008 and will cost a few more million this year.

Councillor Andrew Burns, the city's Labour leader, said it was right for the council-owned bus company to constantly review fares. But he added: "Fare rates are a commercial decision for Lothian Buses and given current economic conditions, I would absolutely expect them to be kept constantly under review.

"The current flat fare for all journeys certainly benefits passengers in being simple and straightforward, but it would be entirely understandable if variable rates, which Lothian used to operate some years ago, were again under consideration."

Last month, it emerged that losses incurred by the tramline in the first few years of its operation will have to be subsidised by the bus company.

Transport chiefs plan to merge Lothian Buses and tram firm TIE into a new company, Transport Edinburgh Limited (TEL), in order to create an integrated service when the trams start operating in 2011.


The full article contains 472 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Realist,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 11:58:03
The first step to premium priced 'through' tickets for combined tram and bus journeys.

Don't say you were not warned!
2

hibbydoug,

edinburgh 05/05/2009 12:00:38
*Please enter your comment*Anything that Burns has a hand in is doomed to failure-he couldnae run a sweetie shop.
3

,

05/05/2009 12:01:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

Daudi Baldrs,

Norway 05/05/2009 12:01:25
Fuel prices down, ticket prices up.

Never been a better time to buy a car.
5

Old Cartha Boy,

05/05/2009 12:05:14
All heading towards the flat fare £4 for a tram or bus ticket...not that the trams will EVER be finished!
6

Sarcasm,

05/05/2009 12:17:39
He said there would be no more fare increases this year, but hinted that a cheaper fare could be brought in for shorter journeys at some point in the future.

That cheaper fare will be the £1.20 come next year then.
7

Daudi Baldrs,

Norway 05/05/2009 12:19:15
Remember that £1.30 is the upper limit.

If you can run a £700million tram for £1.30 fare, you can run a bus for £1.30 fare. Easily.
8

Voice o reason,

Innerspace 05/05/2009 12:27:45
Erm, Didn't Lothian used to have a 2-tier fare system a few years back, but scrapped it in favour of a flat-fare system which was at the time deemed to be "T' Future" ISTR a 80p to go so far along the route then £1 after a certain fare-stage.

9

I love to eat Sellotape,

05/05/2009 12:28:46
Could they not install a miniature "wheel of fortune" that passengers could spin to see what their fare would be?

"Sorry, pal, it's £43.75 for you."

"Well done, madam, for you only 10p."

This would be fairer for all.
10

Way Out West,

05/05/2009 12:28:46
The Lothian Buses chickens have well and truly come home to roost.

Welcome to the real world.
11

tog,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 12:50:38
Yes they did have a two tier system. In fact I think it was a three tier system. This was abandoned as apparently it was confusing for the passengers. A simpler flat system where passengers would pay more for short journeys was brought in and it was spun that this was due to public demand. I don't envy LRT having to sort out the mess the trams will create for them at the same time as having to subsidise the trams but please don't speak to us like idiots. It is also clear that the tram will be great for some journeys but will have a damaging effect on the cost and frequency of the wider public transport network in Edinburgh.
12

Daudi Baldrs,

Norway 05/05/2009 13:00:57
Car use will rocket.
13

Brian Ferrari,

05/05/2009 13:02:05
Shouldn't we be encouraging people to walk? I thought the flat fare was great for driving passanger numbers down.
14

arthur conan,

edinburgh 05/05/2009 13:05:17
Lothianbuses management are in s bit of a spin just now. not olny having to balance the books due tothe recession,lack of subsidy for the concession passes and the rocketing fuel costs last year they now have to bail out the tram project even before its finished.We have a good bus service in Edinburgh and the Envy of other cities.We do have low fares compared to others but i sadly think that the fares will rise in order to integrate the tram.Lothian buses has served us well in the past and i feel this is going to be the final nail in the cofin as we know it.
15

I love to eat Sellotape,

05/05/2009 13:10:16
10. I would like to know more about the Lothian Buses chickens.
16

Bob 2,

05/05/2009 13:10:55
After so many profitable years, the 2008 accounts due in June are expected to show that the main bus network ran at a loss, and Lothian only stayed in surplus thanks to its tourist buses and the Airlink airport service.

Scary, given the current worldwide economic climate

Could we see Tourist numbers drop and the profits made by the Tourist/airport services turn into a loss.

Making Lothian Buses financial position even worse.

If they are making a loss on their normal services jsut now, were is the millions going to come to prop up the TRAMS.


Transport chiefs plan to merge Lothian Buses and tram firm TIE into a new company, Transport Edinburgh Limited (TEL), in order to create an integrated service when the trams start operating in 2011.

do they mean hide the losses that the trams are going to make , so that we cannot see the true cost of the trams.

yip the £1.25 fare is looking even more unlikely
17

arthur conan,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 13:14:57
I suspect that is the reason to merge Lothian buses with transport Edinburgh, to hide the losses accumulated with the tram.We are going to regret ruining our bus company for years to come.God forbid if it went into private ownership.
18

Bob 2,

05/05/2009 13:20:20
didn't the fare go from
£1 to £1.10
and then £1.10 to £1.20 in January

the first increase was due, but not the £1.10 > £1.20

Yip the trams - going to encourage and improve the use of Public transport - todate and given the possibilty of more increases for commuters.....even more people will be abandoning the bus on favour of the car.

Lothian Buses low fares, new buses and frequent services was always an atrraction for commuters.

But fare rise, after fare rise will just put people off using public tranport

we've already had fares increases on some tickets, of over 25% in the last year.
19

Cod,

Squeezing Teetsville 05/05/2009 13:23:10
18 - Fresian

You are most obviously talking about yourself again. I've seen you on that zimmer giving out sweets outside the playground. Again.
20

Bob 2,

05/05/2009 13:23:17
way out west, don't laugh FIRST will no doubt have another fares review before the end of the year for all you passengers a way out west
21

Rambo The Jambo,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 13:23:19

People don't use buses because they are too poor to own a car.

I don't have a car and I am not poor. I choose to do without a car. If I want to go from Tollcross to Leith, for example, I walk. Can't be @rsed with the hassle of bus travel.
22

me150,

05/05/2009 13:25:15
The current system is grossly unfare to those on short journeys and definitely should be scarpped in favour of the old pay per stage system.

Also if the bus company are having financial difficulties we have 2 choices....

increased fares
reduced services

Which would you prefer?
23

Bob 2,

05/05/2009 13:25:45
7 Daudi Baldrs,Norway 05/05/2009 12:19:15
Remember that £1.30 is the upper limit.

If you can run a £700million tram for £1.30 fare, you can run a bus for £1.30 fare. Easily

think again as the buses are expected to subsidise the trams for the first 2 years for some strange reason
24

Bob 2,

05/05/2009 13:28:45
me150

both have already happened

increased fares
reduced services
25

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 05/05/2009 13:30:23
"The firm's managing director, Ian Craig, said it would be "difficult to maintain" the single price journey in years to come...."

This will particularly true when it becomes clear that the buses will be subsidising the operation and the outstanding financing of the Trams.
26

Statsman,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 13:35:10
Having a flat fare was simply a means to not have to employ ticket inspectors. I expect the reason for considering this return to graded ticketing is that huge price hikes are on the way - no doubt to pay for the trams.
27

Foo,

05/05/2009 13:36:57
Of course its easy to blame their problems on the trams.

But it would be more accurate to blame the problems on the fact that it is a terrible service.

- Rude/aggressive drivers
- Abysmal punctuality
- Filthy vehicles
- Stops every 50 feet causing massive journey times
- Vandalised & unkempt bus stops
- Poorly lit bus stops
- Timetables that bear no relation to the reality of bus times
- Lack of mother/child facilities
- Poor driving skills
- Reduced service on a sunday (the day when most people have a day off!)

I do try to use the buses, but they make it so hard for me to like them.

In other countries buses are clean, on time and helpful. It's the direct opposite in Edinburgh.
28

Statsman,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 13:40:32
31 Foo

Stop it. You live in East Lothian. Either someone is paying you to be an apologist or you are crazy. Either way, your comments are not constructive.
29

Statsman,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 13:42:37
31 Foo

You are clearly talking about First Bus (East Lothian section) there and not LRT. It's quite obvious you don't live in Edinburgh.
30

Statsman,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 13:46:23
Lothain Buses I mean before some pedantic twit chips in.
31

Statsman,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 13:46:51
Lothian Arrgh.
32

Foo,

05/05/2009 13:51:00
32&33

It's amusing how many different things you accuse me of in four short sentences!

I do live in Edinburgh mid-week.
I am talking about LRT - First don't stop near my appartment.
My comments are more constructive than your b1tch at my comment.
I'm not being paid by anyone to comment

Anything else you'd like to dream up and sling at me?
33

me150,

05/05/2009 13:57:06
#37, OK then

Further fare increases
Further reduction of services

Which would you prefer.

Nothing changes the facts.
34

likkitysplit,

options 05/05/2009 13:57:46
#24

You missed the other alternative i.e. sack the management and get in people that know how to run a bus company!


35

Foo,

05/05/2009 14:00:33
37

How about management that can effectively run a public transport company, on time and in budget? Why does the alternative have to be your options? They manage in other cities around the world, trams or not.
36

Daudi Baldrs,

Norway 05/05/2009 14:01:13
#31

Foo - with respect, that's not a realistic list and it doesn't (any of it) bear any resemblance to the reality of Lothian Buses' service.

And if the Lothian buses are too 'filthy' for you, well, you are probably best steering clear of public transport entirely. Lothian Buses are cleaner than Scotrail trains. Trams won't be any different. Public transport doesn't smell of lavender fabric softener.

Never really noticed any problem with bus timetables either. It's a wonder they can operate a timetable at all in this f***ing warzone :-(
37

Daudi Baldrs,

Norway 05/05/2009 14:02:11
Edinburgh - closed for business!
38

Foo,

05/05/2009 14:04:41
40

Fair enough about cleanliness of public transport.

Hoever, you cannot deny that the buses often run in pairs and arrive at times wildly different from those advertised.
39

I love to eat Sellotape,

05/05/2009 14:06:04
Most of Edinburgh's public transport is cleaner than my pants.
40

Foo,

05/05/2009 14:07:30
40

On saturday I was on the No16, which originates at Silverknowes and goes along to Leith. Nowhere near the trams. Our bus was playing a game of leapfrog with the other 16 that was travelling along at the same time. Both arrived and picked us up ten minutes after the advertised times.
41

,

05/05/2009 14:15:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
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42

sceptic,

livingston 05/05/2009 14:18:50
Just another "bonus" from the emasculated tram system, now tram line of course.
43

,

05/05/2009 14:25:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
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44

,

05/05/2009 14:26:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
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45

,

05/05/2009 14:27:33
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46

NorT,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 14:40:25
It was always strange that you could get from Penicuik to Tranent for £1.20 the same fare as it cost to travel along Princes Street. This is all a pre cursor to the bus fares rising to £3.50 so that they are the same as the tram even although the buses go to a lot more places than the tram ever will.
47

Bletherinskyte,

On the number 3 to Gorebrig 05/05/2009 14:46:39
#40 Well said - couldn't agree more.
48

Foo,

05/05/2009 14:54:01
Gorgie_toney

Yes, but the bus I got was from Granton square to the Shore. Would you care to explain, without resorting to personal abuse, how the buses, which left from Silverknowes, could possible be delayed by the trams.

47

Obviously I didn't get on both buses. I got on one then watched as they both overtook each other the whole way. And there's traffic in other cities, what makes Edinburgh different? Your reaction was nothing more than personal abuse.

Benj Dover. Hahahahahahahahaaha. You're funny.

Statsman, try writing something intelligent rather than playing along with your sick minded friends who can't do anything other than insult me.
49

Foo,

05/05/2009 14:56:05
45

Gorgie toney

You're a real hypocrite. I've seen many many personal insults you've made to people. Vicious, nasty and personal attacks against others. I've also seen many, many of your comments removed, so you can remove yourself from whatever imagined moral high groud you think you occupy.
50

Deez Nuts,

Mario under a stolen address 05/05/2009 15:01:24
It should be at least 5 pounds. I remember when you could get to malaga on a merry go round for only 17 pounds. Those days have gone of course .

People are big and fat nowadays and they should be made to walk. there is a direct correlation between fatness and how much you earn, so the big people shoudl walk and save their bus money to buy apples and other fruit instead of spenging it all in Freezerland.
51

Deez Nuts,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 15:02:43
52 why would anyone want to travel from Penicuik to Tranent ?
52

JWW,

Whitburn,West Lothian, 55.86667 -3.68500 05/05/2009 15:02:52
How long will it be before Lothian Buses attracts a "suitor"?
53

,

05/05/2009 15:08:31
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54

,

05/05/2009 15:08:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
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55

Deez Nuts,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 15:09:38
Fat people shoudl be made to walk. cars should be abolished.

Youre not taking this seriously foo.
56

Statsman,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 15:11:25
58 JWW

Nice pun. Very good. :D
57

I love Big Fat Mixu,

05/05/2009 15:29:42
I've just come back from a weekend in London and I paid £6.30 for a 4 zone travelcard. I used this on 5 tube journeys, 4 bus journeys and 1 trip on the DLR in one day getting around London and it didn't bother me as I know the transport service is great.
Ask me to pay £1.20 for a single with out transport service, I'd rather walk everywhere.
58

I love Big Fat Mixu,

05/05/2009 15:32:34
Oh! I'll also add that most bus stops and all tube/DLR stations will tell you how long you have to wait on the next bus.
59

AlexanderTheMeerkat,

Meerkat Heaven 05/05/2009 15:36:10
I have a daily laugh at the illuminted traffic signs on Calder Road heading into town "Visit Edinburgh City Centre for shopping and leisure".................

Really brightens up my day, ha ha ha ha.

Thanks to CEC
60

TRUE RED,

edinburgh 05/05/2009 15:45:56
Should read Ian Craigs comments in The Sunday Herald "Annus Horribus" it states that when the trams actually start serving the city in 2011 it or they will soak up 10% of the bus companies passengers forcing the company to look at redundancies and fleet reduction etc. They are already holding talks with unite to cut back on the firms £55 million wage bill. Ian is probably more outspoken than the last MD ,(One N R who was inspirational in bringing back the trams) By stating that the TRAMS are actually strangling the councils Golden Goose IE Lothian Buses
also dont forget fares rose from £1 to £1.20 in a year because, not off high fuel costs, but because of a near 11% wage rise over 2 years. He also states that long distance passengers would not appreciate susidising shorter distance passengers . I think he got that one wrong surely its the shorter distance passengers who are paying the same fare as longer distance passengers that are doing the subsidising .
61

ouime,

edinburgh 05/05/2009 16:23:42
what a clasic from #18, 'only stupid, poor people use the bus'!! I have a degree and a well payed job but still choose to use the bus.
'Lothian Buses has blamed the tram works for contributing to a fall in passenger numbers, which led the company to cut a number of services last year'.
bull s**t. they cut the numbers of buses (without Consultation) to cut down on congestion because of the tram works.
62

James (1),

05/05/2009 16:29:11
Could we not introduce a two tier bus fare such as £1.20 for those who do not want the tram and say £1.20 plus donation of £3 for those that want it?
Surely all pro-tram would consider £4.20 cheap at the price to have the mode of transport that was responsible for cutting the bus services?
That way the majority, if we believe Duncan and the other three, will be paying towards White Elephant tram ways.

The reason they don't automatically hike the price for the too dim to understand marketing is that when they do it they will tell you it was always on the cards but they held off back in May 2009.
Dah! Is that right? Must be, cause they would nae be able ta say it otherwise.
Preamble to fare rise that is coming because of tram deficit.
63

,

05/05/2009 16:57:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
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64

The real dracula,

05/05/2009 16:58:02
Personally it is other bus users who put me off using buses . That and the fact that the bus service isn't convenient to get me to work and back. (a 10 min car journey takes an incredible hour on the bus ,,,,no way)

I dont want to sit beside someone who smells like they haven't washed in a month , smells of stale booze and fags , or is suspiciously rummaging about in their crotch. Nor do I want to here a cacophony of different phone conversations , music or kids screaming.
The peace and quiet and convenience of a car is priceless.
65

Euan,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 17:09:13
Sadly, these proposed fare changes are yet more evidence that this may well be the beginning of the end for Lothian Buses as we know it.

If the company is going to report a loss for 2008, then how exactly is it going to function at all if the company is merged with the tram line operators?

It is going to be a very sad situation indeed to see this once great bus company being systematically bled dry by being forced to prop up the tram project to tune of what could amount to £10 million per year.

Every single penny of profit will be sunk into the trams leaving nothing left at all for future investment in new vehicles and staff.

Something has to be done to avoid this happening. It just cannot be allowed that our local and perfectly good bus company will have this ridiculous burden placed upon it by the ignoramuses in charge of the tram project.

I say enough is enough, drastic action has to be taken by the Scottish Government to halt the trams immediately.

It is simply not good enough to see our capital city being dragged down in so many different ways all in the name of creating an almost totally useless and ridiculously over-priced tram LINE.







66

Help the locals,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 17:16:51
I don't know what you are all moaning about. Try using First Buses they are diabolical
67

Chris R,

Melrose 05/05/2009 17:51:48
54 Foo,

The bus you got on at Silverknowes - Before the bus got to where you got on, WHERE DO YOU THINK THE BUS HAS BEEN???? Princes Street perhaps?? Dohhhh....
68

Ackey,

Sunny Leith 05/05/2009 17:55:37
Man i knew this was coming, lets hide the true cost of the crappy trams by merging the companys....we didn't need the feckers but oh no lets spend half a billon when could have been spent better elsewhere.....

A total joke.
69

Euan,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 18:07:09
#77

It is indeed possible that the 'master plan' scenario you mention could indeed be true.

But if you look at it more closely, it just couldn't work. As the tram line would only serve such a small proportion of Edinburgh residents, the more likely scenario is that people would either:

A. Use their cars more to get to where they are going.

B. Use bicycles or walk.

or

C. Stay in their local area and rarely venture far from their local vicinity.

No-one is going to want to pay what will surely end up being £3 - £4 for a single tram fare simply to get up Leith Walk and into town. Or why would anyone in their right mind pay that (or more for that matter), to get from the airport to the city centre.

The #35 bus already serves me very well in that respect and currently it only costs me £1.20 from practically right outside my front door directly to the airport.

How long that particular fare stays like that remains to be seen...



70

Daudi Baldrs,

Norway 05/05/2009 18:18:30

Very good level of debate here today folks. Well done.

71

,

05/05/2009 18:47:52
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72

,

05/05/2009 18:56:16
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73

Foo,

05/05/2009 19:01:10
86

Explained by the fact I have used the same bus service more than once in my life. Try to keep up.

ps

Notice many of your removed too.
74

,

05/05/2009 19:06:21
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75

Ronnie Fae London hfc,

05/05/2009 19:08:43
why dont they bring in the same as we have here in london like the oyster card ? it can be used on bus, trams, and underground bus is £1-10 a go with a cap of £3-30 per day great value and you can go from north to south, east to west the cash fare is £2-00 even for just one stop they should look at this
a happy scotsman in london
76

Foo,

05/05/2009 19:10:25
92

Tell me what part of this statement you dont understand and I'll talk you through it

"Yes the bus THAT DAY was from Granton square. A DIFFERENT day I stood and watched one sit for half and hour"
77

Foo,

05/05/2009 19:11:02
oh, I see, you have that sort of mid:

"Yes the bus THAT DAY was from Granton square. A DIFFERENT day (in Silverknowes) I stood and watched one sit for half and hour"
78

Foo,

05/05/2009 19:12:14
94

No late. They are all, always late.

My wife uses them every day. Late. THEY ARE NEVER ON TIME
79

Foo,

05/05/2009 19:15:35
GT

Anyway, I'd love to sit and be insulted by you all night, but frankly, I have a loving family to go to, and I rather suspect that this is the site is the only escape you have from your terrible existence, so there's every chance you'll try keep me here as long as poss.

Sorry your life sucks, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Try being a bit kinder, people might have conversations with you. As it is, you are really, really hated on these boards.
80

The new waspy,

05/05/2009 20:41:49
#106
Never mind you'll soon be 60 and get your pass.
81

is it me?,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 21:11:47
#106 rs & 107 waspy

Don't come on here with your smug comments about Senior Citizens getting aboot the Toon. You're subsiding nobody, sitting there Googling yerselves like mad.

It's folk like me that's fought all over the world that's given you the freedom tae excite yourselves aboot a wee public transport affair.

I've got a bus pass but never use it.

In fact I hardly ever leave the house because the state of the tramworks gives me flashbacks to the conditions in Dien Bien Phu in 1954, when I served a wee while in the Legion.
82

krusty the klown,

05/05/2009 21:43:38
#109 - well, perhaps you should have joined a proper british army - or were you just serving drinks in the british leigon at the time?
83

is it me?,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 22:11:46
110 krusty

I was in a "proper" British Army, both before and after, but there wasn't much else doing on in 1954, so I had to do something to pass the time.

Don't mess with me klown.
84

The new waspy,

05/05/2009 22:13:51
#109 is it me?

Skuze me???

I was having a wee dig at RS which he got and you with your head so far up your nevermind did not.

Use your pass before its too late, the world is ahead of you.

Explore.

I use mine when I can saves me a fortune and I dont live in Edinburgh

I love it so "it must be you"
85

wolfette,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 22:22:01
so we'll be going back to "fare stages" and different fares for different journeys .... and possibly different prices on different routes?
86

The new waspy,

05/05/2009 22:28:46
#113
Why not.
The rest of the civilsed world uses this system.
Stage fare payers = small subsidies.
Flat fare payers = big taxes
87

is it me?,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 22:40:06
112 waspy

"Skuze me"

If that's a modern apology, I accept it. Just know your place in future.
88

Think Tank,

05/05/2009 23:11:14
For the last time:

The buses and trams are the SAME F*CKING COMPANY.

You can't subsidise one with the other when the majority of your users are Ridacards/Day Tickets that work on both!

89

Robert12,

05/05/2009 23:18:55
Instead of doing away with routes and raising prices they should do away with about a third of all bus stops.

Benefits:

Less bus stops for the council to maintain (These are NOT maintained by LRT).
Reduced bus journey times.
Less stopping and starting meaning lower fuel consumption.
Less buses required due to the shorter journey times.

You know things are silly when you can practically have a conversation with the people at the next stop.

It's still a cheap service but more and more people are being put off using it due to increased prices and journey times. This will continue until someone actually manages traffic flow in the city centre properly. Worrying hole in George Street today...
90

Julian.,

edinburgh 05/05/2009 23:21:26
Euan,

"No-one is going to want to pay what will surely end up being £3 - £4 for a single tram fare simply to get up Leith Walk and into town"

I'm beginning to see a pattern with some of your comments. Make a completely unrealistic prediction to put the trams in a bad light and then present it as if it was inevitable.

I just hope no one keeps a record of some of these and then throws them back at you in the future when we know the actual outcome.
91

KWC,

Edinburgh -- Home of the Tram 05/05/2009 23:22:04
Surely we, the public, can petition the Council NOT to allow the merge of buses and trams -- in the interest of we, the public?

It is obvious to a blind man that this is simply a scheme to hide the catastrophic loses that the trams will occur, and will simply result in a much more expensive bus system. It is essentially a tax on the publica transport users in the city.

The buses (which I use every day) aren't bad. Why kill them off? The trams are organised by numpties. Keep them separate and if they are as good as claimed, then the public will flock to them. Except me that is. I live South Side so will never see, or want, a tram. Funny that. When they were being 'sold' to us as a concept I remember the artist impression of how they would look on Liberton Brae. Aye, right as they say.

I like the idea of the two tier system advocated above: one fare for those who support the buses and another for those who support the trams.
92

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 05/05/2009 23:28:49
Think Tank (116) - The buses and trams are not the same company. The decision on the merger has still to be taken.
93

Julian.,

edinburgh 05/05/2009 23:29:14
Robert12,

I agree. You have to wonder at the people running this company. The buses are run completely inefficiently.

Have you noticed how when the bus stops everyone has to wait for passengers to get off before getting on...totally inefficient.

And why the h@ll do we not move to a system of prepaying for your tickets with inspectors to check on them like they do on the continent...in fact, just like they're planning to do with the trams...totally inefficient.

Meanwhile the people running the thing talk about moving to a two tier ticketing system like it was a new idea...when they just abolished such a system a few years ago.
94

The new waspy,

05/05/2009 23:29:21
#115
Go away you silly fool pretending you fought in 1954 in the Legion between wars???
Listen Walter Mitty I think you are posted! you would be over 80 if you had did what you say you did.
Think you are Gorgie Tonies other half and he is a sad one as well

"Modern Apology" what the flecks that you insignificant little moron who pretends to be a veteran when men so much better than you gave their lives.

You are one really really sad person
95

Julian.,

edinburgh 05/05/2009 23:36:57
SarahB,

You might be correct there but are they not majority owned by Edinburgh Council?...which effectively makes them part of the same group.

I just don't understand comments like the one from Andrew Burns about bus fares being a commercial decision. Have Labour so forgotten their principles that they even allow companies owned by the council to charge whatever they like to the public. Blimey, the buses are a public service which relieve congestion on our roads and allow those who can't afford a car to get around. Surely there are more important things other than profit to consider when setting bus fares.
96

The new waspy,

05/05/2009 23:41:08
#117 Robert12
Could not agree with you more.
When I have visited Edinburgh with the family over the years they think the bus system is great but cant understand why there is so many bloody bustops.
97

Julian.,

edinburgh 06/05/2009 04:19:49
GT,

Well I did warn the lad. Some of his brash predictions aro going to come back to haunt him when the thing is up and running. At £3 to £4 for a tram ride I wouldn't have thought there would be many takers. Even TIE aren't that stupid.
98

Very Concerned Resident,

06/05/2009 07:47:30
#123 You need to read between the lines on this, or I should say the legislation! City of Edinburgh Council don't even have an elected member on the Board of Lothian Buses, as the 1984 (I think?) de-regulation act prevents it being feasible. Thus, the politicians are right to state the formal legal position but they do weild significant influence on the bus company privately and behind-the-scenes. And don't forget the main politician doing this at the minute is Wheeler who is Transport Convener - maybe therein lies the problem, as I see he is quoted no where in this story?
99

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 08:24:16
Julian (123) - I think Edinburgh Council owns 91% of Lothian Buses' shares, with the three neighbouring Councils holding the rest.

I agree that there is a problem with the Council's belief that it cannot interfere with the LB's commercial operations but, at the same time, it intends to bind it to the tram losses and leave it to take whatever measures it deems necessary to cover those losses - none of which measures, I believe, would be conducive to attracting/retaining public transport passengers.

I think the Council should either commit to subsidising the trams/buses or not go ahead with the proposed merger at all.
100

Leila,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 09:49:19
#126 Gorgie Tony: I'm trying to be polite here, but is it possible that after all this time, and despite all the information which is available to the public, and despite your visit to the mock tram, you still don't realise that on 2011 Edinburgh trams there WON'T BE A TOP DECK?!!
101

TramGremlin,

06/05/2009 13:14:15
# 131
won't be a top deck because there won't be a bottom one either (well not in 2011 anyways!)
102

is it me?,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 19:35:32
#122 waspy

A bit late to come back, but we old soldiers need our sleep.

What's wrong, have you never heard of someone being in their 80s before ?

I was in my 30s at D-B-Phu. After I'd finished in Korea. Although that never really finished; maybe I left there too soon.
103

Linmal,

Livingston 17/06/2009 13:49:50
People in Edinburgh don't know just how lucky they are. You can't travel to Livingston Centre from my house for £1.20 - not sure exactly how much it is now, but last time I had to buy a ticket it was £1.60. I buy an annual ticket for work as it is more economic but it costs me, wait for it, £850! An annual ticket on Lothian Buses - £440! Scandalous, just scandalous, so don't complain too much, you have had it easy for years.
104

ih8hibs,

04/08/2009 12:16:18
Paint the buses Maroon and White as they should be.

 

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