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Dawe joins calls for Lothian Buses to rethink prams policy



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Published Date: 04 September 2008
CITY leader Jenny Dawe today joined the condemnation of Lothian Buses' controversial ban on prams and said drivers should be allowed to use their discretion.
The city bus company is facing growing anger over its policy of refusing passengers with prams or buggies that cannot be folded.

Lothian Buses insists the move is to comply with the Disability Discrimination Act, because it ensures there is space for a wheelchair.

However, politicians from various parties have already called for a "common sense" approach, believing that prams should be allowed on the vehicles if the space is unoccupied.

Parents have argued that in the event of a wheelchair user needing to board the bus, they would get off, ensuring priority was given to that person. However, bus chiefs say this would not happen in reality because parents are sometimes unwilling to disembark mid-journey.

Although the ban on prams is not a new policy, the issue came to the fore in July when drivers were told by the company to enforce it.

Cllr Dawe said today: "I think the (previous] situation where drivers used their discretion worked reasonably well.

"What I would like to see is Lothian Buses going back, and allowing their drivers to use their discretion. If there is space that hasn't been taken up by a wheelchair, they should allow the driver to decide (whether to let a pram on]."

The Lib Dem leader's views echo recent comments from her coalition colleague, SNP deputy council leader Steve Cardownie. He said drivers should be allowed to use their own judgement.

Mothers recently launched a petition to the Scottish Parliament calling for parents to have equal access to public transport, which has so far collected around 650 signatures. Cllr Dawe's intervention was today welcomed by the campaigners.

But, Nicki McIntosh Lewis, 26, an administrator and mother-of-two from Musselburgh, said she was not convinced that "driver discretion" would be the best solution. "We welcome anyone who wants to get involved," she said.

"But even with every politician on our side, it doesn't mean Lothian Buses has to do anything."

She added: "I don't think it would be fair to put the onus on drivers. I think Lothian Buses should tell drivers to allow passengers with prams to use the space, but let the passenger know they will have to vacate it if a wheelchair user wants to get on."

Iain Coupar, marketing director for Lothian Buses, said the firm carries an average of 300 wheelchair users each day. "Our policy is unchanged," he said. "There have been no changes to the terms of carriage. We're not saying no to buggies, prams or pushchairs, it's when they can't fold down."

Traditional prams and those with rigid shopping trays are completely banned, while "travel systems" that can be folded are allowed on only if the bus is not crowded. Folding buggies, including twin buggies, should always be allowed on board.


The full article contains 498 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

alex paterson,

edinburgh 04/09/2008 12:10:13
LRT drivers and the words,common sense just dont equate.
2

Grumpy,

04/09/2008 12:12:29
Lothian Bus drivers have lots of common sense - it's their masters who don't allow then to use it.

Just wait until one of the high heid yins has twins and the wife tries to board a Lothian Bus - I bet the policy changes then!
3

Cappo Del Monte,

04/09/2008 12:12:34
Post her pic above on all buses, that should scare everyone away, even the kids. That pic scares the c.rap out of me
4

FrankGallagher,

04/09/2008 12:22:01
prams, trams and automobiles
5

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

04/09/2008 12:25:03
Listen Dawes - & don't look at me like that - we don't want the buses clogged up with prams. Its not safe. Do these mothers carry public liability insurance with them ? Will they be the first to sue for damages to them, the kids & the pram when something goes wrong ?
6

john3,

04/09/2008 12:25:29
Aye and the drivers will be damned if they do and damned if they do not.
7

Florentine_Pogen,

04/09/2008 12:27:00
#3 Cappo, you are spot on. I can't make my mind up if that is Bella Lugosi, Doris Karloff or Maxine Schreck.
8

Labradoodle,

04/09/2008 12:33:18
is it groundhog day? could have sworn we've all commented on this before...............
9

alex patersons English teacher,

04/09/2008 12:34:14
Deputee dawg.
10

HG,

edinburgh 04/09/2008 12:39:15
The only problem with being asked to get off the bus to allow a wheelchair user on (which I have absolutely no problem with, by the way) is that you then have to pay another £1.10 to continue your journey as we have such a stupid inflexible ticketing system in this city... So I think progress needs to be made on two fronts: (1) Lothian Buses needs to stop discriminating against parents and carers in the name of the disability discrimination act and (2) they need to find some way of allowing people who are asked to vacate the space to continue their journey without financial penalty.
11

Linmal,

Livingston 04/09/2008 12:46:04
#8 It will be a long time before we hear the last of this one.

The whole thing is pretty obvious to me, we live in a very selfish society nowadays and people think they should be able to do exactly as they please.

Before any of you start shouting, I am not against mothers with or without prams, I am a mother myself. What I object to is the premise that you have a right to do whatever you please regardless of the consequences to those less fortunate than yourself.

All that is required is a bit of good old fashioned manners. Let the lady with the pram on - if it doesn't take up half the bus that is. If parents had a bit of common sense they wouldn't buy a pram that couldn't be folded down anyway. There are plenty around nowadays and surely it would make life easier? I am a bus user, but if the bus isn't convenient, ie when I've got a lot of shopping, I use a taxi. Not hard is it?

I don't think you should be made to get off if a wheelchair user needs to get on (unless the size of your pram would prohibit this) but, having said that, I haven't seen that many wheelchair users using buses anyway.

#11 I agree that there should be a way of transferring the ticket as you should not be penalised for good manners.
12

HG,

edinburgh 04/09/2008 12:54:57
#12 Good to see some common sense and pragmatism. If people could be relied on to balance up their interests with the interests of others, this issue probably wouldn't have arisen in the first place.
13

gorgeousgorgieboy,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 12:56:19
Any human being who aspires to be a Councillor is clearly not fit to hold office.
14

Duncan in Edinburgh,

04/09/2008 13:00:30
Can anyone tell me if that picture is one of the council approved ones or one of the real-life shots that the EEN was told off for using?

With dear old Jenny it's sometimes difficult to tell.
15

Skint and Appalled,

on top of Old Smokey 04/09/2008 13:11:36
While it may be the case that SOME pram users would move to allow a wheelchair access, it clearly is not everyone as was shown only last week when a mother refused to fold down her buggy to allow a wheelchair access - which is why a total ban on buggies/prams should be enforced.

I have said previously that I have children, used prams and buggies at a time when you could not get them on a bus anyway - the remedy is walk or make other arrangements.

There's no point in bleating on about how many children, etc. etc. how you have to be at a place at a certain time, etc. etc. the fact is that there was a time not so long ago when you could not use prams/buggies on the bus and us parents managed to cope just fine.

Get off your high horse and get on your walking shoes!
16

thehitmaster,

Penicuik 04/09/2008 13:12:23
YAWN, YAWN, YAWN.. It's all been said before, its all been commented on before. Common Sense peoples, common sense!!
17

Disgrunted Ebardonian,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 13:12:53
As I have said before re-introduce the little sprinters readapt them and use them for buggies and wheelchairs only, they could run between the hours of 9am and 6pm that way it would stop the congestion that it creates and everybody would be happy
18

Pacob75,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 13:24:35
Whilst most (not all) folk with prams would be happy to get off should the space be required by a wheelchair user, I wonder if they would be just as happy to do so during the winter months?

I can see the headline now:

"FURY AS PARENT LEFT OUT IN THE COLD"

Cue more hysteria from parents and councillors alike.

LB cannae win as far as I can see.
19

Pacob75,

04/09/2008 13:28:13
22 - I see your point but in a business sense and in this current climate, they wouldnae last long as they'd be a commercial failure from the start.

There is however a service for wheelchair users/elderly/infirm available throughout Edinburgh & the Lothians already - it's called "Dial-A-Bus"
20

Nick Nick,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 13:33:27
Call me old fashioned - but it shouldn't be a "prams or wheelchairs" debate - if the Council are so determined to force everyone to stop using cars, and encourage them to use buses and of course trams - then these public transport options should accommodate both prams and wheelchairs.

Simple as.
21

Des Gruntled,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 13:36:28
What's more concerning to me, was the sight last week of a 90 year old women being told she could not get on a bus, because she was using one of those wheeled tartan shopping bags, and there was apparantly not enough room for both her and her bag, for which most likely she needs to support her. She waited 2 minutes and got on the next bus no problem.
22

Mario Antoinette,

(the new Paul Voltaire) 04/09/2008 13:46:22
This would not happen if we had trams.
In Europe you can take two prams and half a dozen weans on a tram for free.
I love trams.
23

Skip McClendon,

04/09/2008 14:04:29
This whole debate continues to be daft.

"We have to ban all prams, because a very small minority of people MIGHT make a fuss about getting off to allow a wheelchair user on". This is the most flawed logic I have ever encountered. Why ban everyone because of the behaviour of a small minority?

Some able bodied adults fail to give up the "priority of elderly or disabled" passengers seats on the bus when an elderly or disabled person gets on. Should we therefore ban all able-bodied people from buses too?

A small minority of drunken numpties cause problems on public transport. Should we therefore ban every single person who has had a drink from using public transport.

An outright ban like this, as is almost always the case, discriminates against more people than it protects.
24

The cook,

Scotland 04/09/2008 14:06:19
#11 - entirely agree, there would HAVE to be a proper system in place to allow the parents who have to vacate the bus to travel onwards with no extra cost.

I want the pram ban stopped but I also believe the pram and owner would have to vacate the space for a wheelchair user when the situation arises.
25

The cook,

Scotland 04/09/2008 14:09:22
#30 maybe the small minority would get larger if they had more of a friendly reception. No wonder people in wheelchairs are daunted by travelling on the bus.
26

Skip McClendon,

04/09/2008 14:10:35
#33

Eh?
27

Duncan in Edinburgh,

04/09/2008 14:13:02
#18 I'm gorgeous.
28

Skip McClendon,

04/09/2008 14:29:18
#36

You don't? Bad news for all those senior citizens currently heading for the big international stena stairlift convention in Antwerp with David Urquhart Travel. They are going to get a bit wet.
29

go boil ur heid,

edinburgh 04/09/2008 14:34:24
jobsworth overpaid bus drivers. they are still upset they couldn't get their unifoms in black. numpties, talking about disabled people. who in god's name is more disabled than a little child. lets all sing lothian buses anthem deutchland deutchland uber you know the rest
30

Brian Ferrari,

04/09/2008 14:39:13
Let's have a bit of blue sky, outside the box thinking here.

If the prams won't fit alongside wheelchairs INSIDE the bus, why not tow the prams along OUTSIDE the bus?



31

Duncan in Edinburgh,

04/09/2008 14:44:21
It's so-called political correctness gone mad.
32

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 04/09/2008 14:47:49

Is that a picture of Jenny Dawe or an evil warlord from Star Trek Voyager
33

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 04/09/2008 14:48:44

#41 - you can't say "mad" - it's now "otherly sane"
34

Pacob75,

04/09/2008 14:52:04
39 - your moniker says it all really, 'nuff said!
35

Jorge,

04/09/2008 15:14:40
Isn´t the point of having a pram is to walk with the child, it rains you put the hood up. I totally agree with Lothian Buses not to let prams on the transport and this woman JD should have better things to with her time and our money than support lazy women. I am sick and tired of women claiming to be full time mothers, that means they don´t work and want all the benefits of people who do, scroungers.
36

Skip McClendon,

04/09/2008 15:21:29
#45

You've got legs as well. Do you walk everywhere? If it rains, you can put your hood up.
37

McHatter,

Leith 04/09/2008 15:38:39
#2: You don't seriously think an LRT "high heid yin" or his family would ever travel on a bus do you?
38

Pacob75,

04/09/2008 15:47:29
49 - Yeah, what about reporting on the real hard-hitting issues that affect everyone like: Pineapple on pizza - Yes or No?
39

Skip McClendon,

04/09/2008 15:51:32
#50

No. Fruit. On. Pizza. Ever!

(Tomatoes excepted)...
40

FrankGallagher,

04/09/2008 15:59:29
Yeah, but what about pizza on pineapple....whole different catergory
41

stats ,

EDINBURGH 04/09/2008 16:01:14
All prams and pushchairs shoud be banned it is a wheelchair space not a pram or pushchair place

they should be made to walk with thier prams and pushchairs like my parents used too have to do
42

alex patersons English teacher,

04/09/2008 16:31:31
58.
theres no need to hum and haw,ian couper has pacific policy for this.

Hawaiian boil your heed.
43

wee_zoe_x,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 16:36:51
What is the actual problem here or is it that know-one has any work to do and feels like having a moan all day long?

Buggy/pram on the bus, wheelchair user wants on so the buggy/pram gets folded up or just gets off - simple!!

And those without children, do you walk everywhere?? Or is it just us with the children that have to because we have babies in a buggy? Infact, do any of you have children?
44

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 16:37:12
#39 "who in god's name is more disabled than a little child"

Eh - a disabled person? Children are small, but they're usually quite able.

The rules are simple enough - parents can get on the bus with a buggy which folds, but not with a child vehicle which is the size of a SmartCar and has wheels like tractor tyres. Seems not too unreasonable.

They can even get on the bus with a Hawaian pizza, provided they keep it zipped up, and are prepared to move it to make space for a wheelchair if necessary.
45

tomias,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 16:42:57
NEWS J DAWE pregnant- now running for depute First Ministership; takes the bus no less.
46

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 16:46:18
#64 - Eh?
47

Boy Wonder,

04/09/2008 16:47:37
Can't we have this pic of Sir Les Paterson, Australian Cultural Attache to the Court of St James and well-known drunk, for the caption competition. I have 100s of suggestions for that! :D
48

Disgrunted Ebardonian,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 17:28:20
23* Thank you for your comment I also mentioned Dial A Bus last time this subject was in the paper, but at the moment they are struggling as it is, to cope with the passanger situation, Would the bus company or council be willing to invest in this venture and supply Dial a bus with more transport to help them cope I very much doubt it. Maybe they will build a tramline for disabled and perabulators only, Im sure that would solve a problem espcially if we have the tourist best interests in mind.

49

Scotish Exile,

04/09/2008 17:35:09
Well done to LRT, prams are a bloody nuisance, as are the birds that push them. They think they have the right of way, and own the bus and pavement etc. Stay in your boarded up Council schemes and do us all a favour!
50

Disgrunted Ebardonian,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 17:37:22
Nice One 52 lmao
51

Disgrunted Ebardonian,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 17:49:29
Another Big hazard on the buses are the passengers who chose to sit in the luggage section and amalgamate around this part of the bus instead of moving up the bus this causing great difficulty to get on and off the bus espcially if you are a mum with a folded up buggy and a baby with a shopping bag and a dog and she has her mother and grandmother with her and there is poor uncle lost his marbles muttering to himself I must phone Peter at the LRT lost property shop to see if he has found my marbles, and as he has his wheelchair with him he is having to stand up and fold it to get it through the throngs of standing passengers who are complaining about him poking them in the legs as he struggles to get past. Just a typical day on public transport.
52

Disgrunted Ebardonian,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 17:59:50
Nice One 52 lmao
53

Disgrunted Ebardonian,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 18:08:37
When did we last see an inspector on a bus throwing passengers of because the bus was overcrowded?

How many safety laws are the bus company breaking every day?

If there was a head-on crash and the standing passengers at the front of the bus were severly injured who would be at fault?

How is it that a bus can roll up to the back of another bus without any strain on the brakes and yet every bus stop they approach the driver thinks he is Bronco Bill the passangers are thrown about the bus until he decides to put his foot flat down on the floor?
54

Peperami Sausage,

Livingston 04/09/2008 20:00:51
Listen, everyone has a choice, if you're not happy don't use it. Anyone who begs to differ is a blue pass holder, miserable moaning faced sod who goes 1 bus stop after waiting an age for them to sit down, then another 4 hours to alight. No wonder bus drivers are grumpy. Lazy, spoilt and with the 'best bus company in Britain'. Think about the other poor British citizens and what they have to endure. You wonder why there's an obesity problem in this country?
55

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

04/09/2008 20:42:06
#28 - now you know how we feel about your comments
56

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

04/09/2008 20:42:29
#77 Awe dont say that
57

Dr DoGood,

edinburgh 04/09/2008 21:37:33
Jenny Dawes as your the leader of the so called council can you please fix all the potholes and cracked pavements as they are damaging the wheels on my buggy every time I have to go and get the bus oh sorry thats what the council is supposed to do and as this is Edinburgh council that would not be possible but we can stick our nose in to something that might get us a few votes next time round
58

Robbierunciman,

Romney Marsh 04/09/2008 21:56:59
I think pram users are pushy. I recall cycling down a cycle path and finding it blocked by a woman with an off road pram who seemed to think it was her personal space and it was her duty to get in way of other users.

More power to LRT, keep off road prams off the buses.
59

Factually yours,

Aberdeen 05/09/2008 10:27:09
Central belters never know when they're well off - or over-subsidised.

£1.10 single and £2.50 all day?

Try £1.80 single, £3.70 all day!!!!
60

Factually yours,

Aberdeen 05/09/2008 10:30:25
and the weegies aren't much better -

only £1.50 single, £3.20 all day!!!
61

Starkravingsane,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 10:35:03
And what if, when a pram driver leaves the bus, she finds herself at the back of the next queue with another pram ahead of her? Who should be allowed to go first?
62

the dog,

embra 23/09/2008 12:24:38
EDITOR SAYS - its a quiet news day what shall we do

LOW LIFE NO BRAIN REPORTER SAYS - i know lets drag out the buggy brigade story again its always a winner
63

Simon M,

Midlothian 26/01/2009 15:27:24
The Lothian Buses policy is "common sense" as the News would have it. These buses have wheelchair spaces, not buggy/pram spaces and wheelchair users should rightly take priority for these spaces.

Horsefaced Dawe doesn't know what she is talking about.

 

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