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Monday, 2nd November 2009 Change Date Latest Issue

Transport chiefs urged to scrap accident blackspot roundabout

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Published Date: 27 May 2009
TRANSPORT chiefs have launched a safety review of a busy city roundabout after a string of accidents.
Officials are currently investigating a number of measures to reduce collisions at Crewe Toll amid mounting pressure to replace the junction with traffic lights, similar to the project recently undertaken at Seafield roundabout in Portobello.

That
is thought unlikely because of the huge cost involved but a report is currently being prepared by transport officials after a call from local councillor Lesley Hinds.

Councillor Hinds said: "I live in the area and the only accident I have ever had was at Crewe Toll. All options need to be looked at to make it a safer place and I would have thought bringing in traffic lights at peak times might be an option.

"If it would help the situation by getting rid of the roundabout then the money needs to be found. It's unacceptable to just leave it as it is."

Earlier this month, it emerged that cyclists are more likely to be involved in an accident in Ferry Road – of which Crewe Toll is part – than anywhere else in the city.

Last November, a 35-year-old woman had to be freed from underneath a double-decker bus by firefighters using airbags and specialist stabilising equipment.

In February, Seria Ullah, 38, suffered serious facial injuries, including a shattered cheekbone, after being thrown from her bike nearby.

The new arrangements at Seafield are said to be working well, but the complexity of replicating the scheme at Crewe Toll means it is likely to be too expensive to carry out.

Inverleith councillor Tim McKay, whose ward includes Ferry Road, said he would be resistant to scrapping the roundabout after the difficulties encountered at Seafield.

He said: "I am a bit nervous about that given the problems they had at Seafield and the inconvenience caused.

"My perception is that the problem is the long stretches of road leading up to Crewe Toll and not the roundabout itself. We can't just replace every roundabout in the city – it would be too expensive."

A council spokesman said: "A report examining the options for improving safety at Crewe Toll roundabout will be considered by the transport, infrastructure and environment committee on 28 July."





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 May 2009 8:47 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Traffic issues
 
1

SandyBottoms,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 09:51:47
Why any cyclist would use Ferry Road instead of the perfectly good Ferry Road footpath is beyond me.
2

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 11:38:52
Dear God no!

"Officials are currently investigating a number of measures to reduce collisions at Crewe Toll amid mounting pressure to replace the junction with traffic lights"

"Mounting pressure" from whom, exactly, apart from Lesley Hinds? "the only accident I have ever had was at Crewe Toll"? Well, Lesley, you obviously need to pay more attention, or resit your test.

Another piece of unsubstantiated drivel to further the relentless drive towards CEC's iron grip on what remains of traffic flow in Edinburgh.
3

Padraig,

27/05/2009 11:52:59
SO the impetus for this "safety review" is a single councillor! In Edinburgh we have had enough of this kind of political control freakery that is trying to claim that roundabouts are "dangerous" when the reality is that they are safer than other junctions because they slow all the traffic and mean that drivers only need to be very careful of vehicles already on the roundabout (i.e. coming from the right).

On the other hand the "benefit" fo light-controlled junctions is that congestion can be increased by increasing the "all red" phase, which reduced the number of vehicles which can negotiate the junction in an hour - critical at peak flow times.

And, as a result, driving becomes more unpleasant, which the hard left hopes means that public transport becomes realtively more attractive. Deluded, just deluded, the lot of them!

It will be interesting to see how the next local election, far enough away now for local politicians to still feel secure, will treat this kind of dogma - unless the lunatic fringe is weeded out, both as councillors and officials.
4

Andrew,

27/05/2009 12:06:07
Drivers are the cause of accidents, NOT ROUNDABOUTS!
5

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 12:13:14
#5 Be quiet Jenny.
6

raythebear,

edinburgh 27/05/2009 12:13:59
#4 correct.
the reason it hasnt been changed is because seafield has used up all their cash
7

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 12:16:24
Tony/Jenny

We're still waiting for you to tell us if you've ever held a full UK driving licence...
8

Skip McClendon,

27/05/2009 12:19:24
#5

Erm....GT, do you actually know how roundabouts work?

Everyone has to give way to traffic from the right, or traffic already on the roundabout. That's just how roundabouts work. It's the same rules no matter what you are driving - car, van, bus, double-decker tram, etc, etc...

9

Dorian,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 12:23:56
Leave the roundabout as is. There are already pedestrian crossings with lights, just make them timed lights as well as button operated. Sure the cars would be back from the roundabout, but rather that than the near accidents I see every day.
10

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 12:25:12
It is a fact that roundabouts are less safe than traffic lights, particularly for cyclists - whether or not this change will ever happen is questionable; I wonder if those arguing against improved safety have ever had to deal with the aftermath of a road collision? If not, perhaps you could go out with the police to attend an RTA before making such ignorant comments.
11

Foo,

27/05/2009 12:25:32
The problem's not the roundabout, it's the lanes which sweep from inside to outside very sharply. People never have a clue what lane to be in here apart from those who use it regularly.

Buses and lorries don't get held up here at all, it's a very fast roundabout.

Repaint the lanes into just 2 at each entry point and exit and you'll slow traffic down and make it easier to understand.

Oh, and GT, as a non driver, you don't have a say in this issue.
12

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 12:26:56
#8 I can comment on air traffic control systems. It doesn't mean my comments have any value.

As to your "wealth of experience" - for it to have any bearing on this issue it would need to include a reasonable period during which you "experienced" driving a vehicle unsupervised on UK roads. And, let's be absolutely honest here, age does not automatically imbue wisdom.
13

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 12:28:47
sorry that should be #9 G-Tone
14

,

27/05/2009 12:30:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 27/05/2009 12:32:42
I'm with GT on this one !
16

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 27/05/2009 12:33:32
Its sad that some people put their journey time before safety........
17

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 12:33:42
#16 G-Tone -"As a bus passenger I do have a say in it, whether you like it or not."

Er...no. You don't. As a bus *driver*, however, you would.
18

Skip McClendon,

27/05/2009 12:34:24
...actually, now that I re-read your post, GT, it seems that you are advocating drivers (well, car drivers at least) giving way to traffic from the left at roundabouts, while others (buses, lorries, double-decker trams) give way from the right, or don't give way at all.

Yes, that's really going to improve road safety. With super-duper ideas like that one, are you perhaps a City of Edinburgh Transport planner, or Councillor in charge of transport?
19

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 12:34:31
Go away Road Raga. Just go.
20

DAVID,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 12:34:52
It's a ridiculous waste of money to convert roundabouts to traffic light controlled junctions. More nanny-state interference from council officials, slowing down journey times and creating a much greater volume of emmissions and pollution due to more stop-start during journeys.

When do the sane majority start getting a say on these hare-brained schemes so we can cancel them before they start?
21

totally indecent,

27/05/2009 12:40:15
The only problem with this roundabout is the stupid decision to put pedestrian crossings two feet away from each exit/ entrance and the inability of some drivers to pick a lane instead of queuing in single file half way up Crewe Road.
22

Bob 2,

27/05/2009 12:45:04
Look Folks

GTs always right, sometimes confused, but never wrong.

Best bet is DO NO POST comments on his comments, he just likes to wind people up.

Only GT is allowed to make comments about comments.
23

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 12:47:18
For the astonishing amount they would pay their golf club cronies to convert this roundabout, CEC could pay for a traffic police officer to stand in a raised box in the middle of it at peak times to direct the traffic for the next 20 years. This could be in effect next week with zero disruption. What a novel idea. Not. Of course, though a little bit "iconic", this system wouldn't strangle the traffic flow 24 hours a day, bringing vehicles to an unecessary halt in the middle of the night.
24

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 27/05/2009 12:47:44
GT for prime minister !
25

Sarcasm,

27/05/2009 12:49:01
28
With all the time you spend on the bus, it's little wonder the police haven't been able to get a hold of you for those chip throwing incidents.

What happened to the time you insisted you were a former member of the police.

Mounted presumably.
26

Foo,

27/05/2009 12:50:55
GT

The North Korea of comment makers.
27

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 12:51:27
#29 Bob 2

Yes, GT is in fine form today. He's in fire and brimstone mode over on the schoolgirl pregnancy thread. He's even managed to advocate hanging, though hopefully not for the girls involved.
28

The Jenny whine Mario n’ Tony net,

27/05/2009 12:53:15
buses will benefit from this junction change with quicker journey times for the thousands of passengers. To hell with the selfish, obnoxious car drivers - they can sit in their traffic congestion and fume that the bus is getting quicker.
29

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 12:53:23
Tony, was your war pistol amongst the cache of WWII arms they found in that river the other day?
30

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 27/05/2009 12:54:30
Pedestrianise the roundabout - now there's an idea.
31

DAVID,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 12:54:41
I'm not a selfish obnoxious car user, but I do like to live my life free of excessive and expensive state interference.

Rather than heavy-handed state socialism could we not try a bit of laissez-faire? I actually think we'd all get by just dandy without Kafka-esque interference, as many road experiments that remove street lights, street furniture around the world are discovering. But I wouldn't expect Edinburgh council to have woken up to this sort of thin yet.

And well-said to the poster that highlighted the stupidity of having trafficl ights on 24 hrs per day - totally unnecessary.
32

Bob 2,

27/05/2009 12:56:29
24 Skip McClendon,27/05/2009 12:34:24
...actually, now that I re-read your post, GT, it seems that you are advocating drivers (well, car drivers at least) giving way to traffic from the left at roundabouts.

Skip...the highway code does indicate this a bit

Roundabouts (184-190)

On approaching a roundabout take..... You should "be aware of the speed and position of all the road users around you"

When reaching the roundabout you should "watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all"

So think about it HGV/Bus may have moved onto the roundabout as no traffic was coming from the right....along comes a driver sees nothing from the right....but fails to see the 40ft high 15ft high bus already on the roundabout...accelerates and brakes causing a shunt as he or she failed to see the HGV already on the rounabout




33

Bob 2,

27/05/2009 12:57:39
comment 37 is this another of GTs posts
34

Nettie,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 12:59:22
Having been a driver for over 20 years, the only accident I have been involved in was also at Crewe Toll as well - not through my fault but through someone else running into me, jumping the gun at the roundabout and hitting me.
35

Sarcasm,

27/05/2009 12:59:32
#36

Oh you did, a good while ago in a hissy fit trying to outscore someone taking the bait.

I book marked it on another PC, fornication such as this, I'll try to find it.
36

GJS,

27/05/2009 13:00:09
Tony, why do you decide that it is drivers' "excessive speed" that prevents large vehicles from entering the roundabout? If they drove slower, the bus would still be waiting for the same number of vehicles - probably waiting longer, in fact, for the same number of vehicles to pass.
37

Nectar,

Leaf 27/05/2009 13:02:27
Given the collapse in circulation for the Scotsman, EEN and most other newspapers, they will now do anything to drive people to their websites and comment boards.
Bear this in mind when you read the antagonistic posts of "readers" such as Gorgie Tony or Alternative Fuel Head. They're EEN sub editors that post contrary and undefendable positions on any subject from dog poo (Fuel Head claims it isn't a problem) to trams (Foo)to anything else (Gorgie Tony).
I realise the irony of a post encouraging people not to post, just don't be suckered in by EEN staffers trying to stir the pot to drive up web traffic.
38

antifa,

27/05/2009 13:04:14
Incandescent - GT may be mad but your comments that only drivers have a say in road planning is also bizarre and illogical.

Everyone pays for Britain's roads through their taxes so everyone has a right to comment - the cyclist, car or bus passenger is as much a stakeholder as the driver.
39

It's heading straight for us!,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 13:04:23
1. Crewe toll roundabout is a nightmare. the problem is that traffic can enter it at speed and the centre is too small making it a mad dash - if coming from Telford Rd you have to pick a lane, generally both lanes are going straight through so its a race to see who gets through first and cuts the other off! Traffic lights would be a bad idea here too. Seafield Road is much worse since the lights were put up, ive seen near misses there nearly every day as once again there is real confusion about which lane people should be in. It also take much longer to get through
40

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 13:10:01
The fact remains that paying for a traffic officer at peak times ONLY would dramatically reduce accidents at this, or any major roundabout for a tiny fraction of the cost and without the upheaval of another drawn out "replacement" "project". The officer could quite easily prioritise buses, though letting the slowest-moving, most frequently stopping vehicle through first remains firmly in contradiction of logic when stops are not recessed, as the traffic can only flow as fast as it's slowest component.
41

,

27/05/2009 13:10:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
42

Foo,

27/05/2009 13:11:40
^^Would a staffer use language like that^^

I think not.
43

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 13:15:06
#55 - could be a double bluff. Let's see if your #54 gets pulled.
44

Nectar,

Leaf 27/05/2009 13:18:30
#54,55
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
45

Foo,

27/05/2009 13:19:09
57

Yeah I know. Cool huh?
46

Foo,

27/05/2009 13:20:31
61

Haha, yeah whatever. You better hope I don't work there otherwsie I'd be busy pulling up eveyone's account details/IP address
47

Foo,

27/05/2009 13:21:00
63

Oh yeah? By who?
48

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 13:23:58
#49 Antifa

"Everyone pays for Britain's roads through their taxes"

Oh dear. Still on this ramble are you?

It is a *fact* that annual revenue from drivers exceeds many, many times the entire transport budget for the UK, including local road maintenance allocations made to Local Authorities as a CoSLA-agreed component of their Revenue Support Grant. The reason that driver revenue is mixed up in the Consolidated Fund is so that it can also be used to fund additional spending programmes outside transport. To claim that other forms of taxation held in the same pot therefore also fund transport programmes demonstrates a laughably poor grasp of public finance.
49

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 13:29:09
#66 G-Tone

So, what you're telling us is that your "wealth of experience" actually consists of aimless, freebie bus journey's on your own?

Awesome.
50

Redman.,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 13:46:46
I wonder what the comparative costs of providing a flyover for cyclists/pedestrians to use would be compared to traffic lights? It wouldn't have to be anything special, just a simple footbridge from each junction to the central island.

Alright, perhaps that's a disingenuous use of the word "simple", but does it really come down to wiping out a roundabout? The top of Chesser Road has become a nightmare since Asda got their way and the roundabout there was replace with lights. Are we sure that traffic signals really are better than roundabouts in *every* case?
51

Redman.,

27/05/2009 13:54:49
Absolutely Gorgie_Tony, I am aware of all of those. I am also aware that they may cause a hazard for birds or low-flying aircraft which is why I posed it as a question, rather than proferring it as a definite solution.
52

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 14:10:16
#70 Tony - thought you were off for a ride on the 38 half an hour ago?
53

Skip McClendon,

27/05/2009 14:10:29
Everyone leave GT alone. He has successfully proved that buses and lorries are too big, and cause congestion by slowing poor car drivers down at roundabouts. The solution is to ban all buses, lorries, double-decker trams etc, etc from the roads so that cars can whizz through roundabouts more easily, giving way (or not) in whichever direction takes their fancy on that particular day.
54

badger464,

27/05/2009 14:37:56
Consider this, a large lorry intending to travel from Crewe Rd South to Crewe Rd North waits to enter traffic flow on the roundabout, when a gap appears and there are no vehicles coming from the right the driver sets off, then a car driver heading west on ferry road approaching the roundabout looks to their right sees a gap they can fit into if they don't slow too much only to find their path on the roundabout blocked by the lorry which moved on to the roundabout before them, so the car driver pulls up sharply to avoid hitting the truck but the driver of the car following who is probably still looking right doesn't see this and rear ends the stopped car on the roundabout, result traffic chaos for an hour or so.

Ok, that was just a hypothetical situation, but thats how accidents happen by drivers not taking proper care and attention.
55

Foo,

27/05/2009 15:03:56
74

Consider this:

Little Timmy is crossing the road at Crew Toll. At the same time flight EZ8118 from Amsterdam is making its final approach. Whilst this is happening, a tanker truck fully laden with petrol is making its way to the Shell garage at the roundabout. Just as Timmy presses the button to cross the road, Max, a 17 year old boy racer is just getting his Saxo VTR to 6500rpm heading towards the roundabout. Just as the green man light up, the coke that the petrol tank driver has been drinking rolls under his brake pedal. At the same time, the pilot of EZ8118 has a fit and splashes his scalding coffee in his co-pilots eyes and onto the auto pilot. Max, seeing Timmy crossing the road panics and drops the anchors. Petrol truck man behind him tries to slam the brakes on-nothing! Flight EZ8118 goes into a roll and nose dive.

Timmy impacts Max's bonnet at 74mph. Truck driver SMASHES into the bank and starts pushing them into the grounds of the Ferranti building. Flight EZ8118 nose dives into them just as they plough through the walls of Ferranti, setting off a new developmental missile they'd just finished gluing together that day.

The resulting fireball takes out Granton, Pilton, Stockbridge, Muirhouse and Crew Toll.

Ok, that was just a hypothetical situation, but THAT’S how accidents happen.
56

calum,

27/05/2009 15:07:57
Notice how GT always stresses that he's not employed by a newspaper - that's because he's contract agency staff and technically not empoyed by a newspaper.
He claims to be a gay, disabled, ex-serviceman, in his mid 70s (at least), part-time occupant of the benches outside the church in Gorgie Road etc. etc. etc.. He's a bored newsroom hound waiting foir the next scoop who usually gets the graveyard shift because he's a junior and that shift is the least productive for an evening provincial newspaper. In other words, he's a complete fraud.
57

Wullie Coyote,

27/05/2009 15:30:25
Great! Let's put Crewe Toll out of action for 18 months, like they did with the roundabout at Portobello.

Or maybe we need another tram line.
58

Anth,

Embra 27/05/2009 15:41:09
Just for Incadescent. He's right that fuel duty accounts for a pretty high proportion of tax, but VED is waaaaaaaaaay down the list and Council Tax is almost the same as fuel duty. For 2008:

Income Tax £155bn
NI £104bn
VAT £83bn
Corporation Tax £51bn
Fuel Duty £26bn
Council Tax £25bn
Business Rates £24bn
'Other' taxes £16bn
Stamp Duty £13bn
Tobacco £8bn
VED ('road' tax) £6bn
Capital Gains £5bn

So by my reckoning a high income smoker has more right to the road? No?
59

Statsman,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 16:09:38
They could put part-time traffic lights on it to smooth the flow without replacing the roundabout. It would make the roundabout safer at a fraction of the cost.

The problem is drivers having to 'push in' to the traffic flow because most of the traffic is going from Telford Road to Ferry Road towards Leith (or vice versa).
60

Herman The German,

27/05/2009 16:09:47
#66.G T
I have seen you on the 38 bus,siting upstairs at the front pretending to drive,war pistol in hand(really 99p toy from Woolies), muttering under your breath about bad drivers,teenage pregnancies,the youth of today and etc, ad nausem.
61

badger464,

27/05/2009 16:22:01
#75 You forgot to explain how the truck restricted to 56 mph manages to push a car into a pedestrian at 74 mph
62

Marie Antoinette,

27/05/2009 16:22:10
Build an Arc de Triomphe-themed pedestrian footbridge over it and get drivers to go the opposite way round while honking their horns. Then you can call it a tourist attraction.
63

antifa,

27/05/2009 16:26:15
67 - what nonsense. VED brings in £6bn. The annual transport budget of central government alone is more than £15m. So, to confirm, everyone who pays tax pays for our roads.

In addition, anyone who pays to get on a bus is also paying for the use of the road since this makes up a proportion of all bus companies' costs.

Incidentally, I also pay road tax as a car-owner (not always a driver, sometimes a passenger), though I try to cycle to work as often as i can.
64

antifa,

27/05/2009 16:26:29
£15bn rather.
65

Statsman,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 16:43:50
82 Marie Antoinette

That idea sounds world class and iconic.
66

Statsman,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 16:49:58
Does anyone remember the sculpture on the York Place/Elm Row roundabout? It looked like a scaffolding put up by someone that was on something.
67

Wullie Coyote,

27/05/2009 16:53:03
Such as a stepladder?
68

Mingin The Merciful,

27/05/2009 17:03:29
Put Gorgie Tony in a giant Wicker Man at the centre of the roundabout.

Drivers will have something amusing to distract them while they are waiting to pull out.

We can also have a sweepstake on who will strike the first match. I'm betting on Foo.
69

Wayne Kerr,

Comely Banker 27/05/2009 17:45:02
Pyongyang!

No I'm not in North Korea.

That's the noise I make when I... well, you know ;o)
70

Statsman,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 17:53:05
92 rs

That was it! Thanks. I couldn't find any pictures of it when I had a look earlier.
71

Sarcasm,

27/05/2009 18:06:19
Gorgie_Tony.

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=3341691

Post 31
Euan - my driving standards are of the highest - when I was a police officer I passed the highest advanced driving test - so I don't spout garbage. I have not failed any test 100 times.

Keep on motoring "Tony"
72

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 18:32:51
#83 Antifa

I said "driver revenue". Vehicle Excise Duty is just that: duty (though a very unusual one as no other duty has to be paid repeatedly. In its present guise, it should more accurately be named Vehicle Use Tax)

It is *included* in revenue accruing from drivers, but merely one of the many streams.

#78 Anth

I know it's difficult to understand but try thinking of it this way. If I go to the pub with a bunch of folk, we each put a tenner into a pot for rounds and I leave after just one pint. It's logical, sensible and entirely truthful for me to say I paid for my own drink, regardless of what the others spent the remaining pot on.
73

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 18:37:53
#79

"They could put part-time traffic lights on it to smooth the flow without replacing the roundabout. It would make the roundabout safer at a fraction of the cost."

Indeed, but CEC can't be trusted to operate traffic lights only part time. They can't even be trusted to switch the "temporary" 50 mph limit signs off on the A90 outside peak/hazardous times. Mark my words, "part time" lights go in there and before you know it, you'll have vehicles stopped there with no other vehicles in sight.

A (proper) traffic officer at peaks times would avoid CEC's burning temptation to just leave restrictions on 24/7 "just, because!"
74

Wullie Coyote,

27/05/2009 18:42:44
100!!!

Couldn't resist it :-)
75

Incandescent,

27/05/2009 18:45:12
#95 Sarcasm

Nice one - that's the old fraud well and truly busted!
76

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 19:27:19
#78 - The figures do not separate out the VAT paid on fuel and, immorally in my view, on fuel duties (prob another £7bn or so there), VAT on new car sales, maybe another £5bn or so, VAT on servicing and repairs, company car tax, insurance premium tax, etc.

The total taxes paid by road users is close to £50bn.
77

Julian.,

edinburgh 28/05/2009 01:57:07
On a related subject, does anyone know why cars coming into town at Donaldson's school are made to divert up Magdala Crescent and back to Haymerket Terrace while buses and taxis are allowed to go straight on. Meanwhile, all the tram works on that stretch have disappeared... Ludicrous!!!
78

Foo,

28/05/2009 09:15:52
104 The liar Gorgie_Tony

Sure. Despite the fact that multiple instances of the same user ID not being allowed, and despite the fact the language is in the same bitter style, and despite the fact that everyone knows it was you, you just claim it wasn't.

GT, you've been caught out as a liar and hypocrite. SHAME ON YOU. SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!
79

Speedy Gonzales,

Edinburgh 28/05/2009 09:35:45
#103
It may well be signed for bus/taxi only but plenty of cars rightly or wrongly ignore the signs.
I'm no expert, but I would guess the diversion is still on beacause of the works at west maitland street. There aren't enough lanes open to handle the volume of traffic that would normally be there.

 

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