Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

Endinburgh Council
 
 
Saturday, 7th November 2009 Change Date

Pram ban petition backed by hundreds

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the Edinburgh Evening News site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Sign In
Register
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 03 September 2008
HUNDREDS of people have signed a petition in their campaign to overturn Lothian Buses' controversial ban on prams.
Mums launched the petition to the Scottish Parliament calling for parents to have equal access to public transport last week. It has collected over 440 signatures.

Lothian Buses began enforcing the policy in July, which they say is in line with t
he Disability Discrimination Act. They only allow buggies that can be folded to use wheelchair space if it is unoccupied.

But parents protest that these are unsuitable for young babies, and say they are prepared to leave the space if a wheelchair user gets on board. Disability groups also say there is no reason why they cannot use the space if it is vacant.

Campaigner Catriona Black said: "This policy shows a lack of understanding of the challenges facing parents and carers of infants.

"All of the parents of young babies to whom we have spoken agree that they would readily leave the bus to vacate the space."

Lothians MSP Shirley Anne Somerville is planning to lead a delegation of parents in a meeting with the bus company. Eight MSPs have signed a motion to the Parliament, saying the policy discriminates against parents with young children.





The full article contains 211 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 03 September 2008 10:38 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Starkravingsane,

Edinburgh 03/09/2008 11:57:07
Because self-enforcement doesn't work. They won't leave the bus when asked to do so. That's the nub of the problem.
2

allknowing,

03/09/2008 12:13:47
Agree with no.1

No manners or respect for fellow passengers. I you wonder why more people dont use buses, they are full of the type.
3

Peekay,

03/09/2008 12:35:44
I think you will find that cars are equally populated by people with no manners or respect - but the consequences are much worse.
4

thehitmaster,

Penicuik 03/09/2008 12:40:44
When will this end? When will the Evening News actually report a story worthy of the news. With all the negative spin this paper puts on public transport in Edinburgh it's a wonder anyone wants to use it! Can you please now print a voucher which I can complete and fill in and send to the EN with wording such as "I have had enough of only ever reading about Lothian Buses and people who have nothing better to do than complain, complain, complain".
5

john3,

03/09/2008 12:40:52
They say they will vacate the space now but wait
when, and if they succeed, they will rapidly change back
to old habits + they are soon replaced by newer parents
who never signed it anyway.
Start a petition for the ban which would soon get as many and more signatures by people left standing while mother sits AND takes up the buggy space.
6

rover,

Edinburgh 03/09/2008 12:41:59
Most of these prams are foldable so why not fold them up or are mothers now a days to lazy, we always folded ours.
7

Grouchy,

Edinburgh 03/09/2008 13:02:52
#5 I would sign that petition. I would also support a ban on mums travelling with children still in their buggies / prams during the rush hour.
8

Howard Moon,

03/09/2008 13:21:51
#8

Yes, that's one of the reasons why they keep going on about this. They'll be able to claim trams solve this and a myriad of other problems because they are predominantly designed for people to stand, not sit, and so there will be plenty of space for prams/wheelchairs etc.

Still don't fancy standing with a load of suitcases to go from leith to the airport, or shopping bags from home, but that's just me.
9

Brodric,

03/09/2008 13:31:45
Ofcourse mums with buggies are petitioning. They think they have the right because a precedent was set when they were allowed on in the first place.

However, there is a huge difference for a wheelchair user to gain access. It is the only way they can live a semblance of normality for travelling around. But, for pushchairs etc, there is another option - they can be folded.

Try sitting on the long row of seats behind the driver of a No 22 bus when one of those baby "tank" with three huge wheels gets on. Everybody gets their toes run over as there is just not enough room for the "tank" to pass. Its almost a lethal weapon. Its happened to me twice (no apology on either occasion).

Then there is the point of how much space they use up. One mum and one baby vehicle uses up at least three seat, often four, and with the "tanks", the whole row of 5 seats is used. Mum pays for one ticket.

I have yet to see a mother fold up her baby vehicle on a busy bus to allow other paying passengers a seat. I had to stand, with crutches, whilst one lazy young mother and her mum took up the whole row.

Drivers don't have enough time to police the situation - and the mothers obviously often don't have the respect for others to do anything other than sit there whilst their baby vehicle takes up space.

I agree with No 6 - Rover - let them fold up their baby vehicles before they get on the bus. And lets have no more debate on it.
10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 03/09/2008 13:33:59

Why is everyone 'stereotyping' mothers with Babies,?

This new disease of hatred towards mothers with babies in Edinburgh is atrocious, we should be ashamed of ourselves!
Not all mothers, have no-courtesy, and must use our buses for, 'may-a-reason'.

If this Edinburgh-disease has no apparent resolve, then MSPs must get involved to bring resolve.
11

Brodric,

03/09/2008 13:37:14
No 10 - Shore - get a life.

LT have stranded and abandoned mothers. What cockypop, what twaddle you are talking. Do you seriously believe yourself?

What do you think hard working women did before they were allowed, erroneously, to take prams and buggies (unfolded) onto buses?

Oops, sorry, did you think that life begun with you and your generation. Ask your mother. She folded her buggy like everybody else.

There are many fold up models for newborn babies. But, lets be serious, who is carrying a newborn on the bus? What do you mean newborn? 10 mins, 10 hours, 10 days, 10 weeks? Newborns are not allowed at nurseries, so what are you doing carrying a newborn around?

Buy one of those baby carriers for your front for carrying the babe on the bus - and fold your buggy. They work well - and you can be sure you will be given a seat.
12

Brodric,

03/09/2008 13:41:22
Charles, love you lots, but your thoughts are clouded by your situation.

Nobody is stereotyping mothers. Not all mothers are as selfish, self-centred and tunnel-visioned as some of those signing this petition.

This is not about making a woman's life more difficult. It is about the overall safety and comfort of people on buses.

There are many methods of managing the situation of transporting babies and toddlers. Lets not abandon all reason in this argument.

More worrying are the people who expect toddlers to give up seats on buses for adults. For clarity I mean here the situation where a mum has no knee room for more than one toddler.
13

Brodric,

03/09/2008 13:42:44
Oh, one last comment to Shore no 10.

What is wrong with walking when you can? We walked miles with the kids when they were young. Much healthier.
14

Skip McClendon,

03/09/2008 13:53:38
And the child/parent haters come out in force once again. Funny how these childless "experts" seem to think they know all about how to care for children. The ones that really make me laugh are the "oooooh, how selfish are parents" posts. "These parents are really selfish because they want their babies to travel in safety, which means I don't have enough room to stretch MY legs right out on the bus". Pathetic. Also, if you are sitting in those seats at the front, aren't they a priority for elderly or disabled passengers? How selfish of you.

#10 - Excellent points on how none of the posts on these topics are from people with disabilities complaining. In fact, the disabilities' charity supports the removal of the Lothian Buses ban.
15

Lynn. S,

Edinburgh 03/09/2008 14:38:33
No10,

I am a young mum with a 3 month old baby and I totally support the ban. To be able to take a buggy unfolded on a bus is not our god given right that space was designed for wheelchair users, when i use the bus I put my daughter into a baby carrier that straps onto me. It provides great support for her head and it is much easier than getting on and off buses or even walking along the street. Both my arms are free to carry shopping and I only take up 1 seat on the bus. Many times I have seen other young mother's on the bus with buggies and they have refused to move if someone with a wheelchair wanted to get on the bus. It's time this silly debate was over just remember Lothian buses are not banning buggies totally they want people to fold buggies just like they used to before they put wheelchair space in.
16

Starkravingsane,

Edinburgh 03/09/2008 14:50:29
When my baby was newborn, if I went out, I used a chest carrier. Must nicer to be able to steal a wee kiss every now and again when sitting on a bus or walking along the road. Newborns don't need to be laid out flat in prams. Certainly they are not supposed to be put in light folding buggies until they are about 6 months, but they're so snuggly before hand that other methods of carrying them should be considered. And yes, I have done the big pram all the way from Bruntsfield to John Lewis and back again on foot. It was a bit of a hike - but baby slept beautifully after fifteen minutes of pushing.
17

PaulB,

Edinburgh 03/09/2008 15:43:26
No more bus stories - please! and EN, stop having such a downer on Lothian Buses - we take things for granted far too much in Edinburgh. We would miss them if they were sold or went out of business. Best bus company in the UK!
18

Andanotherthing,

03/09/2008 16:01:27
Shore No 10. Has anyone noticed that the people who comment on this story are not disabled or young parents?

How would anyone know the status of others on this forum?

Shore 10. You do not seem to understand that new born babies CANNOT travel in fold up buggies and to try to fold a pushchair with a baby thats a few weeks old on a moving bus is very dangerous.

Buggy for new babies are advertised on shop websites. No one is suggesting that a buggy should be folded on a moving bus.

Shore 11. And the petiton has now reached 613 on-line signatures-

Has there been a sudden baby boom in Edinburgh? Didn't read about that in the EEN.
19

TeeMcSee,

Edinburgh 03/09/2008 17:13:29
Starkravingsane @21,

Oh well, lucky you to be living in the city centre where you are within walking distance. What about parents living on the outskirts of town, John Lewis to Moredun sound good or how about John Lewis to Muirhouse? Public transport is a vital link for everyone...full stop. Or perhaps people in the City Centre would rather that we were kept in our schemes?

Power to the Parents!
20

Sunny Jim,

03/09/2008 18:14:29
Where's the online petition to keep the buggies off the buses? That's the one I want to sign.
21

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 03/09/2008 19:00:05

TeeMcSee ~27,

'Well-Said'! "Power to the Parents!"

And,..

LONG LIVE THE BABIES REVOLUTION!

A few stinky nappies will sort it out! :)
22

Sunny Jim,

03/09/2008 19:02:15
I'll give you another wee true story. When travelling in Africa we saw a woman giving birth at the side of the road on her way to work. After giving birth she wrapped the baby up, put it on her back and continued on her way to WORK. What do youse want, jam on it?
23

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 03/09/2008 19:09:01

Sunny jim,~31,

That's for you, if you call it 'civilisation'
24

Sunny Jim,

03/09/2008 19:12:51
It doesn't matter what you call it. My point is that the women here dinnae ken they're born. Women have bairns every day in every corner of the world and they don't make the fuss they do here. They're all going about the maternity ward shuffling their feet and carrying rubber rings, what's all that about?
25

Sunny Jim,

03/09/2008 20:55:18
And letting them take buggies and all their baby paraphernalia with them will help will it. I was one of nine and we were all traipsed the length of the Great western road hanging onto a pram when we had to go to town. Mothers today, pah!
26

Brodric,

03/09/2008 22:44:45
TeeMcSee - what nonsense about people being kept in their schemes.

Edinburgh mothers have been using buses since the year they were created - without the need to take prams and buggies on board. And Muirhouse to John Lewis is definitely possible by foot, though the walk home is definitely much easier. I know, I used to walk from Silverknowes to Princes Street on a regular basis after the birth of my first child, pushing a pram. And I never felt deprived or annoyed that I couldn't take my pram on the bus. On the birth of number 2, I had a huge pushchair that I used to fold up and carry on the bus, even when pregnant with number 3 child - and so on and so on.

Read 20 Lynn and 21 Starkravingsane for excellent posts and good points.

Shore - we all (mothers with problems and others) at some time in our lives need to go to hospitals when we are physically less able. This may mean taking a taxi or asking someone to drive us, or even asking someone to look after baby/toddlers. After all, hospitals are not somewhere we want to expose our little ones to too often, especially these days.

And though I sympathise with the lack of mobility you experienced due to the c-section, the bus, complete with baby and buggy, is not your only option.

Like the Real Mario Antoinette, I tend towards the idea that small buggies, like the old McLaren, could be allowed on; but it would never stop there. On the bus the other day, three mums got on the bus with buggies. Of course only one could get the space, the lucky first with the huge "tank", who incidentally got off 2-3 short stops later (could have walked, and it was a nice day). The other two mums were clearly disgruntled that they had been beaten to the prime position, one to the point of casting dirty looks at the lucky one.

That space is for wheelchair users. People who really do need the extra space it takes to house the wheelchair - on an everyday basis. Their condition is permanent and they should hav
27

Brodric,

03/09/2008 22:46:36
continued.

That space is for wheelchair users. People who really do need the extra space it takes to house the wheelchair - on an everyday basis. Their condition is permanent and they should have the option of travelling on public transport. When not in use by a wheelchair, the space is for the general seating of passengers. And it should stay like this.
28

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 04/09/2008 10:02:02
Why dont all you anti baby people on here start a petition of your own to get every female in scotland sterilized so that there can be no more babies born in scotland that should free up the buses for you. also as the population reduces due to extinction there will even be more room for you, yes extiction because no more babies being born means just that may suit you just fine, hope you families have to push babies home in the pouring rain and get pneumonia, nb babies under three months old are mot suited to push chairs their bodies have to be supported by a prambulator, because of the bone structure is too soft their heads and neck have to be supported
29

Pacob75,

04/09/2008 10:42:20
40 - What a lot of rubbish you spout. No one here is "anti-baby" as you put it, but merely fed up with the constant articles against LB and selfish mothers in general.

It's no hard to understand - if your pram/pushchair/buggy doesnae fold then ye cannae get on the bus, get used to it.

Anyway we're only talking until the child is 6 months old.

GET A GRIP!
30

Brodric,

04/09/2008 11:43:22
Pacob75 - well said - let common sense prevail - and we are talking about a very short period with alternative forms of transport (including walking) if required.

Good comment also Mike Bull 38.

daveserviceman - all that rot about pneumonia and the pouring rain etc is ridiculous. Have you seen the state of children these days with obesity and all kinds of small health problems, including allergies, caused by the lack of exercise and mollycoddling of children and people in general. Children need a certain amount of exposure to the elements to develop strong immune systems. And a baby well wrapped in a pram is well protected and warm enough.

Mothers used to put their children out in the garden or outside their houses in the street to get fresh air every day. Women used to air their houses every day to change the air. There are sound reasons for this.

A bit more walking would help the health of the nation.
31

The cook,

Scotland 04/09/2008 13:56:13
I think Brodic talks sense here if you read all her postings. Lets simplify it, the first pram or buggy can come on if the wheelchair space is not taken and must vacate it if a wheelchair user needs it. Plain and simple. How else can this possibly work? You have to think of people who have no choice in how they can get about. No wonder hardly any disabled people currently use the bus with all the anti-wheelchair carry on...

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
RSS Feed of this article's comments
Delivery formats: RSS, Atom, Javascript & Email
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.