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Fight on to stop largest skatepark in Scotland



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Published Date: 13 October 2008
CAMPAIGNERS opposed to a new £750,000 skatepark say it will be the biggest of its kind in the country.
Issues of antisocial behaviour, excess noise and an increase in traffic have been raised by local residents in Saughton in what are believed to be hundreds of objection letters to Edinburgh City Council.

Campaigner Cathy Rush, who lives close to t
he proposed site, said: "The council is trying to pass this off as a recreational play area, but it is going to be the largest skateboarding park in Scotland, hosting competitions and people from all over the country.

"There is already a lot of antisocial behaviour and this skatepark is going to be unsupervised.

"This is going to be open potentially until 10pm, but the toilets are only open for four hours a day. Parking facilities are also already inadequate.

"The council should be repairing basic necessities in the park, but a lot of local residents say they feel it is a fait accompli."

The proposed facility for Saughton Park has been designed for use by skateboarders, BMX riders and inline skaters, and it was hoped the skatepark would be open by next summer.

Sunk below ground level, with special "anti-skate" surfaces on surrounding paths to stop skaters from straying outside the facility, the 70m by 30m park is to feature ramps, rails and tracks, as well as a viewing area for members of the public and artificial lighting.

Edinburgh City Council is confident the skatepark at Saughton Park will be widely welcomed.

City sports leader Deidre Brock said: "When we ask communities about what's needed locally, top of the list comes facilities for young people, and that's what we want to provide.

"I have received a number of comments that are very supportive of this proposal, because I think most people see how valuable a top-quality skatepark will be for the young people of our city."

But consultation on the planning application for the development, which runs until October 31, has revealed some opposition to the proposals.

May Simpson, who lives near Saughton Park, said: "There have been 520-odd objection letters that we know of.

"We are objecting because it seems to be the last resort after Inverleith and the Meadows wouldn't take it.

"The big issue we have is antisocial behaviour.

"They tell us it is for local kids, but it is for skateboarders. There will be a lot of traffic.

"

Addressing concerns raised by residents, a council spokesman said: "Edinburgh is the only major Scottish city without a skatepark, and Glasgow, Dundee, Perth and others tell us that they have seen a positive impact on local areas and a reduction in antisocial behaviour – that's why police are supportive.

"





The full article contains 462 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

mystic,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 12:34:43
Why is a skate park so important? Why does a city need to have one? Why is it more important than a normal park where everyone can use? Why can't they use the money more sensibly?

www.SeeingEdinburgh.co.uk
2

miffy the bonfire slater,

13/10/2008 12:36:44
£750,000 for a skatepark !!!!! UNBELIEVABLE WASTE OF TAXPAYERS MONEY.

There is a perfectly good, modern and well used skatepark in Ocean Terminal anyway, with the best transport links to the whole city to boot.

Stop this waste of taxpayers money now.
3

CharlieW,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 12:37:42
This, along with the previous and sadly successful campaigns by the yoofophobes of Brunstfield and Inverleith, is just NIMBYism of the worst possible kind.
4

,

13/10/2008 12:44:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Finbarr Saunders,

13/10/2008 12:48:27
Skatepark = Ned Magnet

Wouldn't want to live nearby.
6

Bob 2,

13/10/2008 12:52:59
or the Scottish Parliament building.!?
7

Rap,

13/10/2008 13:01:43
Charlie, would you be happy for it to be just across the road from you? Unmanned? Really? Perhaps the issue is just that no-one really wants a gathering of kids outside their house - and the location of the parks tried so far is wrong? The facilities are inadequate, the consultation with the residents is questionable and everyone gets the feeling it's a shoo-in already.
8

RichB,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 13:02:10
It is all so pathetic. The original plans for the Meadows (to build it where there is a poor, tired and now redundant playparl) were scuppered by the Friends of the Meadows - yet they seem to have no issue with the Big Top arrangements for the Fringe (regardless of the acts which are on) which ruin, and make unuseable, large areas of the grass there for a sizeable part of the year.

Bah.
9

,

13/10/2008 13:02:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

RichB,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 13:04:25
I've never understood why Bristo Square isn't just converted officially into a Skatepark - it's where the skaters want it to be, as their spiritual home, if you like ...

... oh wait ... someone must get money now for the Udderbelly going up thre for four weeks a year ... ah, I see.
11

Rap,

13/10/2008 13:06:33
Foo, I'm sure genuine skaters are very well behaved, but you can't deny the park is likely to attract a less savoury crowd to a park which already has a lot of trouble? Perhaps skaters and their organisations should stump up for some paid organisers/wardens and then everyone would be happy.
12

RichB,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 13:06:38
It's very true that skaters aren't neds, however skaters do get hassled and pestered (and sometimes attacked) by neds at Bristo, attracted by the free entertainment.
13

S.E,

13/10/2008 13:08:00
#1 Councils have to provide football pitches, golf courses etc to stop people from doing this wherever they like, #2 As excellent as the OT park is it is too small to be Edinburghs main skatepark. The real problem here is ignorance. The reason skateparks have connotations of antisocial behaviour is because they always get built in rough areas so it is not the skaters who cause the antisocial behaviour it is the local youths of these areas. This is why Inverleith or the Meadows was so greatly desired as the location but unfortunately a bunch of curtain twitching snobs who have nothing better to do got it stopped. This time the skaters will win.
14

PG,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 13:16:53
People are always moaning that kids are hanging about the parks and streets with nothing to do. Surely giving kids something to do is a good thing? My kids both skate at OT and it's brilliant but small and expensive. Small kids have play parks so why shouldn't older kids have somewhere to go and get some exercise, hang out with their mates etc. Some people have forgotten what being a kid/teen is all about. Lets tar all youths with the same brush and assume that if they're outside unsupervised they're all having it off and getting rat-faced. Not all kids are like that. And anti social behaviour isn't limited to teens either.
15

Rap,

13/10/2008 13:20:25
PG, would you sign up to volunteer to act as a warden for the skaters and undesirables every night? Would youw ant this park right outside your door? This park already has a track record of trouble, so why one arth should residents assume this would lessen when more kids are attracted to the area?
16

Bling Crosby,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 13:20:56
waste of money.

by the way, anyone over the age of 18 that still skateboards is a loser and needs to grow up. Just thought i'd tell you.
17

S.E,

13/10/2008 13:33:05
#16 I am 27 and will still skate and will do till the day I die. I believe that you are as young as you want to be. I bet you are a simple overweight, big brother watching football numpty who has done whatever mainstream culture has told you to do your whole life. It is you who needs to grow up and realise that we live in a big wide world with all different types of people other than what television defines as "normal". Those who have the ability to think for themselves.
18

Jams,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 13:35:11
Can I just point out - NO TOILETS. Even for the decent law abiding skaters that leaves the adjoining sandpit and bushes as the only options. Will they be fined in the same way dog owners are?

As for the anti-social behaviour, I have no doubt that there are some elements (possibly a small minority) within the skating community who behave that way. More importantly however, an unsupervised park will be a magnet for any "Ned" who is looking for trouble or perhaps to pick up a few odds and ends like mobile phones and iPods.

It will also be a target for vandalism in the same way that the adjoining play park already is. The council would apparently rather re-build it every few years rather than protect it in the first instance.

If the council are going to do this they should do it right. Less froth and more substance - but then that doesn't look so good in the press does it!

19

PG,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 13:35:22
#15 All open areas have the potential to attract trouble. I doubt the park will be "right outside" anyone's door. I am assuming that reasonable consideration will be given to locating the park at some distance from houses. And yes, I would volunteer. Being young doesn't automatically make you a thug. Problem youngsters are usually lacking a firm parental figure and decent interests. Boredom is a huge factor in troublemaking. Maybe we should tear down any thing that attracts teenagers including the kids playparks where may teenagers hang out at night for something to do? Maybe we should just curfew all teenagers and make them be in the house by 7pm every night? Enforce enrolement in a nice moral youth club perhaps? I'm sure for every one of you bitching about how it'll bring undesireables to your park, there are other parents thinking that there is no way they'd ever let their child go unaccompanied to that part of town at night!
20

Rap,

13/10/2008 13:42:44
You assume PG? You don't even know where the location of the skatepark within the park is? How can you try and support something like this without all the details? I don't think any residents who are unhappy with this park doubts the need for this sort of park, or anything that will help entertain the young. But, try and see it from their point of view, they already live opposite a park that causes them a lot of grief. Can you see why they are sceptical that this park will only make things worse?
I don't think the problem is purely a youth issue, its a lack of facilities (particularly for the competitions the skatepark aim to attract) and lack of support for the existing problems. I'm sure if the park were to be manned then residents could be won round, but it's not.
21

Salvatori,

13/10/2008 13:44:42
Let's face it - only in Edinburgh would this be an issue.

For those that say it will attract undesirables, well any park does. And for those that say why not build park facility for everyone - there are plenty already.

There are skate parks in Glasgow , Dundee etc and all over England so why not Edinburgh - our Captial city? Oh right, that's because Edinburgh is full of stuck up nimbys who can't understand the issues of skateboarding at all.

The skating fraternity in Edinburgh is huge and needs catered for. Would you rather kids smash up phone boxes and hang around on street corners (not the remit of a skter I can assure you) or perhaps stay fit and out of trouble by skating? I know what I'd want.
22

fresian,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 13:49:55
Most of you hit the nail on the head, neds will hang about anywhere. The majority of skaters I have met do not fall into that category. I'd be quite happy to see it built at the Jewel playing fields. The only problem may be that the skaters would be targetted by the feral brats around there.
23

Salvatori,

13/10/2008 13:50:39
16 - tell that to Tony Hawk, Rodney Mullen etc. They've acheived more than you probably will in your entire life, and have the bank balance to prove it ;)

You're obviously unaware and uneducated to the huge industry of skating, BMXing and other extreme "urban" sports.
24

Rap,

13/10/2008 13:51:16
Salvatori, no-one is saying not in Edinburgh. The residents are saying why there? Is this really the best location, or the one where public response is expected to be less organised than Inverleith and the Meadows? Is there no brownfield/industrial site more suitable? Can no-one organise supervision?
The nature of the sport and competitions is that a lot of people will congregate and the facilities cannot support this (would you be happy with skaters using the bushes when the loos shut at 4pm?)
25

elayne,

13/10/2008 13:52:52
most kids who skate are not neds,neds dont have the brains or finances to afford all the gear(unless they nick it of course!)
26

PG,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 13:55:07
http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/WAM/doc/Drawing-754190.pdf;jsessionid=E1353A1B30DAD6F87FC4C57104C5B992?extension=.pdf&wmTransparency=0&id=754190&wmLocation=0&location=VOLUME1&contentType=application%2Fpdf&wmName=&pageCount=1

Yip as I suspected not exactly on anyones doorstep. Surrounded by greenery, carpark, playpark and trees/shrubs shielding it from the nearest street. And they've included CCTV which ok isn't a great substitute for it being manned but it's a park!!

Interestingly, the application has a status of decided - an no published objection letters.
27

Salvatori,

13/10/2008 13:58:51
24 - Nope. But a solution to the problem - revisit the plans and build some toilets.

The skatepark hs to be built somewhere and this issue has been disgracefully rumbling on for years. The meadows would've been an ideal location, but was opposed just for the sake of it by self interested nimby's (who consider the meadows their backyard!)with no understanding of the issues nor ethos of skating and skaters.
28

Bling Crosby,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 13:58:52
skateboarding is for kids.
29

It's me!,

13/10/2008 14:01:01
Repair the pavements first!!!!!
30

Rap,

13/10/2008 14:01:47
PG, residents live across from the site on Balgreen Rd. and those next to Stevenson Terrace weren't even consulted formally - never a good move if you want them involved and on-side on a scheme.
CCTV is no use to stop trouble, just a poor attempt to record poor quality images of trouble makers. Not a deterrent.
And the reason the application is shown as pending consideration (not decided), which means that the Sub-Committee meeting hasn't met yet to decide on it. And the objection letters are not always scanned in as they come in, but are usually in place a week before the sub-committee meeting. The only complete record of the application is in paper, in the council offices.OK?
31

Rap,

13/10/2008 14:05:18
Salvatori, an awful lot of demands to meet the needs of skaters. But how about you skaters showing some understanding of residents instead of being rude about NIMBYs? ever thought not every wants large groups of kids congregating near those houses when existing problems within the park are not dealt with.

And just throwing in some loos now is no use. It's not costed with the plans. Cllr Brock should have included these things from the beginning instead of pretending they aren't a problem.
32

Ali Menzies,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 14:08:01
Skateboard park users (this does not just include skateboarders)of Edinburgh have been in need a proper facility for about 20 years. The money that is going to be spent on this facility was allocated for a skatepark over 5 years ago. As a tax payer I do not believe this is a waste of money. The council are trying very hard to provide a well needed facility for the people of Edinburgh. It is a disgrace that the Capital of Scotland does not have a skatepark. Lets hope that the council manage to get the plans passed this time.

The people of Saughton should be welcoming an opportunity for the local kids to have something to do with themselves. I am sure that it is only a minority that is against these plans. This park will reduce problems in the area and not increase them.
33

Salvatori,

13/10/2008 14:17:52
31 - Ok maybe calling them stuck up was a bit rude (although not really come on now), but only in Edinburgh would this meet such resistance as the issue is passed from pillar to post.

As the Capital city we should be leading by example. I was in Leeds recently and saw a couple of excellent skateparks - busy and unmanned and in residential areas. Perhaps a starter for those concerned about the skatepark would be to consult residents in areas like this as to the impact of the skatepark on the local community...
34

Rap,

13/10/2008 14:24:42
Salvatori - now you are thinking logically. But unfortuntely, this is too late. This should have been done before the Council planning application was submitted, and it wasn't. Look as the planning application and see how many neighbours were consulted, and yet over 500 are complaining. Someone didn't do a very good job at involving the community, so public feeling will always be poor.

But you are right, they should have got a few happy residents up to speak, instead of just having local cllrs with agendas speaking. I think communities have the right to be concerned, but most of their concerns can be addressed, but they haven't. And it's too late.
35

PG,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 14:31:09
Rap I think you should read what I said carefully.

Across the road and shielded by trees isn't on someones doorstep. It's across the road and through the trees.

Neighbourhood notification letters have to be sent out to houses with a direct view onto the proposed development, or along boundary walls. Maybe the houses you refer to didn't fall into that criteria.

And if you look at the associated documents
http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/WAM/showCaseFile.do?appType=DC&appNumber=08/03325/FUL
it does indeed say the application has been decided.

36

,

13/10/2008 14:36:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
37

Rap,

13/10/2008 14:43:16
"8. Will there be adequate toilet facilities?
Male and female public toilets are located in the park Winter Garden immediately to the south of the skatepark. These are open from 9.00am to 4.00pm. Toilet facilities are also available for public use in the Saughton Sports Complex to the west. The City of Edinburgh Council Services for Communities will keep the need for possible additional public toilet provision for all park users under review.
Should this need arise there is scope for the refurbishment of previously used public toilet facilities located centrally within the park on the east/ west footpath,some 200m from the skatepark."

So, it doesn't look like "adequate toilet facilities" will be provided before the event.

"6. How would skaters get to the park and would it affect parking?
The experience of other local authorities has shown that the majority of people using the skatepark would travel by foot and public transport or cycle so it would have no significant impact on parking. Saughton has good bus transport links.

And no change to the already poor parking facilities, with people parking on the grass.
The Gorgie/Dalry CC was not consulted on the plans, despite being listed as consultees.
38

THE BPRENTICE,

13/10/2008 14:44:36
This money should be used for helping Edinburgh's ice skating rink and maybe building another? Or the ocucil could build a Council Owned Tennis centre that sponsors young talents? No offence meant to any skater bois out there but its a lot of money to blow on a hunk of half-pipe.

If a skatepark is built it should be off in the borders where extreme sports 'dudes' already go to do their bmx riding ... surely land will be a bit cheaper there?

Not sure about the ned factor down in the borders though - it seems the further out of the city centre you get ... the more mental the folk ... no proof of that - just an observation.
39

Rap,

13/10/2008 14:45:18
PG, the status on the front two pages of the application is pending consideration. The closing date for the application was only last week, so even if the CEC do want to push this through, it's unlikely any decision has been made. And the neighbourhood notification is determined by the address used for the application, and not who overlooks or not. So, a "more convenient" address was used and not all residents were officially informed, not invited to consultations.
40

PG,

Edinburgh 13/10/2008 14:55:44
# 37 Glad to hear it! Can't believe there is so much opposition to providing this facility. There wouldn't be if it was for golf or tennis or football.
41

miffy the bonfire slater,

13/10/2008 15:55:03
#13 you are working for the council aren't you? as are most of the pro-lobby on here.

BTW none of the council's golf courses, football pitches, tennis courts, swimming pools etc are FREE, so why should these skater people get preferential treatment at taxpayers expense.
My information is that the skatepark in ocean terminal is in fact bigger than the proposed one AND somewhat underused.
If this skating thing is such a massive business why is there not more commercial skateparks? Lack of demand I reckon.

42

WKKB,

13/10/2008 15:55:12
There are skate parks all over California. I know it's not Scotland but I've seen them working for the kids. Some are in upper class neighbourhoods and some in poorer areas but where ever tehy are they give kids something to do. The key to their success is that they are maintained and there is hired security on the scene at all times. The security people are employed to stop any violence that may erupt as well as act as a first response team in case of injury. The toilets are open as long as the skate park to make sure young men aren't watering the garden walls of the surrounding homes. It can work if the council and the skaters work together. The council MUST make sure there are hired personnel at all times on the scene and it can't just plant it and walk away.

I don't think it's necessarily a terrible idea, we need places for kids to go so they don't become 'neds' but the council must insure the safety of anyone living nearby. Maybe the location isn't the best and new locations can be sought.

One thing I've learned in my years working with the youth, in most cases they will live up to what ever expectations they've been given. If people expect them to become big nothings in life they will and on the other end if you give a youth a plan for something better and help them achieve it, small or large they will generally live up to it and make something more of themselves. This is where family values breaking down on a daily basis is failing our kids.

I do believe location is key however and if Saughton isn't right they need to keep looking.

43

Unimpressed one,

13/10/2008 16:27:43
Given the level of damage caused to the nearby play park by yobs, it's likely the proposed skate park would be a buckie and graffiti wonderland.
44

miffy the bonfire slater,

13/10/2008 16:45:03
#44 too right,

and they are going to sink it into the ground, right next to the Water of Leith, which has been known to flood. Did no one at the Council even visit the site.

Also, the tranquilty of the Rose Garden will be destroyed. The Rose Garden and Winter Garden are promoted on the Councils own website as being a safe and interesting place for blind people to visit, so I doubt that youths on skateboards will mix well with blind people in the gardens and coming and going.
It's an accident waiting to happen.
45

CINDY,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 16:52:54
They tried to put this monstrosity in the Gyle Park (off Glasgow Road)after it was rejected from Inverleith. Sighthill was also turned down so guess Saughton is the only one left! Why not build it at Ratho next to the climbing wall facility - loads of space there with no close "neighbours" to complain - ah..no transport services..well maybe the trams will go out!!
46

!Ya basta!,

13/10/2008 17:20:54
43 - totally agree. We need at least 5 more skate parks around the city in different locations. Kids have a lot of fun with boarding, biking and skating. It's healthy, good for balance and coordination, encourages creativity, generally is non-competetive and its what kids want to do now. Too many people living in the 19C in Edinburgh let alone the 20C or even 21C. We need some in the Borders too please.
47

Don't believe the hype.,

Embra 13/10/2008 17:22:44
#37 Do you think you were being clever pointing out where Cathy Rush lives? No doubt she will be aware who you are and deal with you in due course. Why not tell us where you live. would you be comfortable with that? Since when did you become the voice of the SCC?
48

ikkleloti,

Saughton, Edinburgh 13/10/2008 17:27:16
32 is right!!!

I would volunteer to be a warden and I only live just up the road!!!
49

Transgression park,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 17:34:43
I cant believe some of these comments, I run and own Edinburghs indoor skatepark at Ocean Terminal which i decided to open after years of failed attempts by the City Council left the city without adequate facilities for one of the most popular sporting passtimes in the world.

Any person who thinks this is a sport for neds and trouble makers can come to Ocean Terminal and see that this multi million pound shopping centre has not been turned into a magnet for trouble since we opened and can also watch the very self disciplined young people who frequent this park participate in a very serious sport in a self regulated and orderly manner.

The people opposing this should look at the root causes of the social problems they believe this will bring and will see that bored teenagers=trouble and any police officer or teacher will tell you this for nothing...
50

MOE,

GORGIE 13/10/2008 18:25:10
The playpark is vandalised regularly also junkies needles are also found,problem is this is next to a primary school.Now you want to spend 750,000 on a skatepark in a area where we have a ice rink,football pitches,bowling green,two junior football teams I think the kids are well looked after in this area.I have also been told by the local neibourhood watch a petition with over two hundred signatures is being classed as one objection enough said
51

miffy the bonfire slater,

13/10/2008 20:04:50
#51

This whole debacle is beginning to stink of Council spin, lies and underhand tactics.
It is becoming obvious that the person or department driving this forward are well versed in such tactics.

It's a right disgrace the way local folk are being treated.
52

Transgression park,

edinburgh 13/10/2008 20:40:57
I think MOE is missing the point....the skateboarders etc are not going to be playing football or going to the bowling green...They want somewhere to practise their sport of choice and at present the council are not facilitating this need, Perhaps less of the current park users would be using it as a place to shoot up drugs if it were full of people who would see them doing it and report them to the police...there would also be fewer junkies if young people were encouraged to take up healthy and disciplined hobbies such as skateboarding instead of hanging around childrens playparks where they are easily enticed into becoming drug users as there is little else on offer.
53

Finbarr Saunders,

13/10/2008 21:36:25
#9 - Foo - I'm quite sure the vast majority of skateboarders are well behaved kids.

But an unsupervised skatepark in Saughton will attract an undesirable element and it would be very foolish to deny otherwise.
54

Forbeeola,

Corstorphine 13/10/2008 21:49:16
All these anti-skatepark comments make me sad, im a 21yr old student studying business but also a BMX rider. I am part of the team at ocean terminals indoor park. I give lessons, to any person who feels normal cycling is just a bit boring!
The bmx community in edinburgh has doubled since OT opened. Many of the new guys were just hanging around lieth. I could tell you many a story of troubled teen becomes bmx superstar.
We put on a show at this years festival, which featured kids who had only recently got into these sports! A show that got a 5 star rating!
My views are the bulk of people who dont want a skatepark on their doorstep dont really know what these sports let alone a skatepark is.
You live near a park, deal with it.
Edinburghs parks are for the people not just you and your dog!
Young people are the future, young motivated people like myself not kids sitting on benches, looking for something to do. If you have any questions about the scene in edinburgh please contact me, ill change your mind!
Are parks not for fun? Saughton Is a great park, it could be even better with this proposed skatepark!

for all those clueless people please go to www.transgressionpark.co.uk its the website for the OT indoor park! So you can catch up on the BMX? skate scene! cheers!!
55

Neily,

13/10/2008 23:12:18
Some of these comments are very disturbing. Saughton Park is being thrown a tremendous opportunity to hold a unique facility with our nations capital in one of the biggest growing participation sports in the country/world.

Please, if anything think of the positive effect this will have on the area, the skateboarders of Edinburgh or at the very least the children that will grow up with access to such a facility.

Skateboarding is a skillful, healthy and demanding sport which appeals to those disengaged with traditional team sports. We don't want to banish our children to some backwater industrial brownsite, we want them to enjoy the public parks just as everyone else is able, knowing they are in a safe environment.

Skateboarders are not 'neds' or anti-social troublemakers, they are just people having fun, they look out for each other and a skatepark of this size is proven to reduce crime in the area.

This skatepark would be an investment in the future of your children and community.

56

Rap,

13/10/2008 23:59:36
Neily and others,
You all seem incapable of reading comments clearly. I don't think one person on this thread has suggested skaters themselves are the problem. Agreed?

The concerns of local residents are not being addressed, or even acknowledged by you, or any other skaters. It is fact that this park experiences quite a few problems as it stands, vandalism, intimidation, needles, etc. Check with the Police, and you can confirm the facts. So, residents are understandably concerned that this problem will not be dealt with before an attraction (be it skating or anything else that will attract genunie enthusiasm and those looking for trouble) only inflates the problem. How can you not at least acknowledge these worries? This is not anti-skating (actually listen to the concerns of residents) but the associated trouble it is likely to bring, which is well founded since trouble already happens there.
57

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 14/10/2008 04:06:15
A thought from left field! Will the tax payers be held responisble for defending the council in law suits? Anyone injured using the facilities in this compensation mad culture we live in, is sure to see the potential.Next question, who will pay the compensation, because it will happen,guaranteed?
58

Neily,

14/10/2008 07:09:00
Rap, you mention that there are issues within the park already. This can only be helped by a facility such as this. Big skateparks have a kind of diluting effect. They grow as small communities themselves with regular crowds of people using them. It is the mere presence of a specific use that deters the more sinister side of society thinking that your park would be a good place to conceal such activity and also give police and authorities a focus.

I have seen this up and down the country at the various other skateparks. Skaters look out for each other their presence will deter other more nefarious users of the park.

Take a look at Livingston, Perth, Dundee and Glasgow. Every one of these skateparks has improved the area in which they are situated.
59

Rap,

14/10/2008 08:08:56
Neily,
Residents want guarentees, particularly considering the issues they are already dealing with. And there is no guarentee that any skatepark will always improve every area they are inserted into. If the statistics were that convincing the skatepark would already be installed in an area which has relatively little trouble. And if the skatepark is installed, and just say the local neds do cause trouble for skaters and residents, then you can shrug your shoulders but tax payers money and residents have to put up with it.

Dragonhead, there is a theory that by having no supervision then there is no legal responsibility by the Council. After all, in a £750K budget you'd think they may be enough for a salary for a warden for the skatepark, but no.
60

Rap,

14/10/2008 08:29:40
And Neily, regardless of the zen-like aura skaters will bring to the area, the facilities at the site (toilets, parking) are not being upgraded to deal with any new visitors. This should be the minimum requirement.
61

PG,

Edinburgh 14/10/2008 10:55:22
TP and Forbeeola, my kids LOVE Trangression which has been a relief for me after trying for years to find a sport they'd enjoy. It's a brilliant facility, nice and safe and I can leave them whilst I go off shopping. Last time I picked them up, I saw several well educated and professional people I know picking up their well brought up, well behaved kids - hardly yobs at all!

BUT why should youngsters have to pay to practise their sport - not aimed at you guys but at all the people on this forum who seem to think we should treat skateboarders differently simply because they don't understand the culture. What makes providing a good practise area in a park so different from providing football or golf facilities? Ahh it's because they're mainstream sports! Have they forgotten football hooliganism? Do they feel safer walking throught he park in front of some youth with a huge metal stick in their hand? Wow - it borders on discrimination really. They moan if kids skateboard on the streets - where are they meant to practise?! My kids want to get better every time they go to TP and there is hardly anywhere they can go to practise without encountering someone moaning. I'd like to see more small practise areas in parks all over the city. They won't draw any more yobs than any other facility.
62

bluehead,

edinburgh 14/10/2008 11:26:02
they need a skate park like they need a hole in the head, it would also be a complete waste of money although Edinburgh is becoming well known for throwing money down the drain,like they are doing with the crazy tram system that nobody wants except a handful of trampots,who seem to have unexplored territory between their ears.
63

miffy the bonfire slater,

14/10/2008 12:06:23
#59 Neily = Council worker, probably involved with delivering this project.
64

Transgression park,

edinburgh 14/10/2008 18:26:52
I agree with PG that the council should have tried to distribute the spend over several parks in the city rather than on one big park, I will however support the proposal for a large park that is well designed and well built in favour of seeing the money being wasted on small prefabricated poorly designed parks that most councils seem to construct around the country at the detriment of the sports and public opinion of these parks.

I would like to add that I spent 5 years doing feasibility studies on skateparks and having visited over 140 parks around the UK and interviewed over 7000 local residents,police officers and park users on the impact of these parks on their local area I found overwhelming support and praise even from those who had been actively campaigning against the parks prior to construction and if the City Council ever manage to build this park Iam sure the local residents will also find that this park will have a positive effect on the area.
65

Neily,

14/10/2008 21:08:55
I'm going to sign out of this discussion after this in the hope that most people will be able to see the positives in this situation. I was looking at the headline for the article and I found it a bit odd because I don't see it as a fight to stop the skatepark from being built, it's been a 10+ year struggle to get it built. A lot of people have put in an awful lot of work to get here and been through a lot of heartache for the sport they love.

Secondly in response to TPs comment above, #65... In the words of the grandfather of Scottish skateboarding, Kenny Omond…

"Big skateparks are inherently safer than small ones because skaters look
after each other and users will outnumber any gangs of neds set on
causing trouble."

This is the effect I have mentioned in previous comments. Rap, unfortunately, no can offer guarantees regarding trouble levels as a result of a skatepark and anyone who tries is fabricating. All that we can offer you is past experience of similar installations and there is nothing but positives. Please go visit the other skateparks mentioned, you won’t find marauding gangs of neds causing havoc. Speak to the police in Livingston who frequently comment on how well the skatepark there operates unsupervised.

I don’t want to muddy the waters here with a story of an indoor park but the one in Dumbarton has proven police statistics saying that it was responsible for a 35% drop in youth crime in it’s surrounding area.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6577681.stm

Wouldn’t you want the Saughton area to produce the next wave of skateboarding/BMX superstars? There are currently 3 or 4 Scots from around the country making big splashes over in America, bred on the skateparks similar to this proposal. I’m talking about kids I’ve watched grow and develop into worldwide professional atheletes.

Please don’t let small fixables such as toilets and parking get in the way of this tremendous regeneration opportunity.

La
66

Neily,

14/10/2008 21:10:59
continued from above..

Lastly, for the record, Miffy, I’d love to say you were close but you’ve pegged me completely wrong. I am a father, a taxpayer, I work in Edinburgh and primarily I’ve been a skateboarder for 15+ years. If we ever get this built, it’d be my local park, I’d hope to take my kids there and love to introduce you to the skateboarding culture.
67

Frankly Mister Shankly,

14/10/2008 21:58:40
28. Did you decide that or is that an actual law? You're a sad case.
68

miffy the bonfire slater,

14/10/2008 23:21:02
#67 too late, built my first board in 1974 with a pine deck and imported Cal-Slal trucks with rubber wheels. Now that is retro and we were the vanguard.

Wester Hailes, the Forestry Commission offices (after a pint in the Struan with the Edinburgh Surf club guys) and the Mound were our Nirvana, that and Pease Bay on my Bilbo Popout when the surf was up.

No matter, I still hate the idea of the Council not properly listening to local people and pushing something through which is half @rsed and ill conceived. I have been told that the guy organising the consultation etc is certainly not to be trusted.
69

AndeeB,

Edinburgh 15/10/2008 13:29:59
#16. Steady - you obviously do not have a clue do you ? This Skatepark is a welcome bonus for all Skaters. AND for your info, Skateboarding is not just for kids it is a world recognised sport with many adults officially recognised for it !!!! My son is an amazing Skateboarder, as are most of his friends. AND for your info, i taught him alot of what he knows now. YES i still skate and im 32 - i still BMX and Mountain Bike too and am in the midst of teaching him how to ride Motocross ! Childish isnt it ?? Now go and sit on your sofa and peer out your window with the rest of the curtain twitchers, to see who else you can pick on, while the rest of the world keeps active - idiot !

As for the comments about it attracting NEDS, that's as maybe, this will happen anywhere as long as there is an attraction of some sort. Skateboarders are constantly getting moved on by Police, Security and the likes for doing what they enjoy. At least if they have somewhere to go, and they will in their droves, it will keep them off the areas where they "seem" to cause trouble. Dont tarr the Skate community with the same brush as the Ned culture. You will find that they are not what you think they are, they are just extreme sports fanatics looking for somewhere to go. Many of them from the "upper class" families in Edinburgh, yes you would be surprised !

#66 & #67 well done, you are completely right. # 50 my son is at O.T. all the time with his friends, great place and atmosphere. After reading this i am seriously considering submitting a pettition to Edinburgh Council's planning department in favour of this Development - perks of the job lol.
70

Benzo,

Livingston 16/10/2008 10:03:31
hi , i'm a skateboarder from livingston (originally from edinburgh).

I absouloutly can't believe that the locals are turning down this chance to get a world class skatepark.

are you out of your mind?

"anti-social behaviour" -skateboarders, inline bladers and BMXers are not anti-social it's the junkied up neds who live in the area. Its the parents/locals faults if they can't keep them on their leash.

"excess noise" -the nearest houses are a fair walk from the area ,too far to hear the skateboards.
71

A. Chin,

Everywhere 17/10/2008 14:02:46
So much negativity, so many lies, so much misinformation.
OT is rubbish and geared towards BMX, most skaters in Edinburgh DO NOT use it as it is far to expensive, badly built and poorly maintained.
Saughton has always had idiots 'playing' in the parks, skaters will not add to that problem, indeed they may even dilute it. The area needs all the help it can get and should be welcoming any investment with open arms. If they feel comfortable living next to a huge prison I'm sure a skatepark in the area won't make any difference.
More important I think is the fact that this money was allocated to the capitals skateboarders more than 5 years ago! And came out of a campaign that was started in 1987!
Edinburgh really needs to get over itself, as the capital of this wet, windy and very grey country, should the skaters not be looking for an indoor set up, learning from the mistakes made at OT and getting a SKATEBOARDER to design the park. Look at the success of UNIT 23 in Dumbarton, It has been hailed as the best indoor park in Europe and is busy from open to close, with a canteen, lockers, toilets, free parking and extensive equipment for hire.
This farce has been going on for far too long, I only hope that something gets built before the kids that can't find anywhere to skate, take all this image branding to heart and begin to play with neds at on your doorstep...
72

A. Chin,

Everywhere 17/10/2008 14:04:41
So much negativity, so many lies, so much misinformation.
OT is rubbish and geared towards BMX, most skaters in Edinburgh DO NOT use it as it is far to expensive, badly built and poorly maintained.
Saughton has always had idiots 'playing' in the parks, skaters will not add to that problem, indeed they may even dilute it. The area needs all the help it can get and should be welcoming any investment with open arms. If they feel comfortable living next to a huge prison I'm sure a skatepark in the area won't make any difference.
More important I think is the fact that this money was allocated to the capitals skateboarders more than 5 years ago! And came out of a campaign that was started in 1987!
Edinburgh really needs to get over itself, as the capital of this wet, windy and very grey country, should the skaters not be looking for an indoor set up, learning from the mistakes made at OT and getting a SKATEBOARDER to design the park. Look at the success of UNIT 23 in Dumbarton, It has been hailed as the best indoor park in Europe and is busy from open to close, with a canteen, lockers, toilets, free parking and extensive equipment for hire.
This farce has been going on for far too long, I only hope that something gets built before the kids that can't find anywhere to skate, take all this image branding to heart and begin to play with neds on your doorstep...

 

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