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Department store goes down in history after being listed



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Published Date: 01 December 2008
IT is perhaps not as loved as the Scott Monument or Edinburgh Castle, but a 1960s department store is to join the list of city buildings saved for future generations.
The Bhs store on Princes Street is to be given a B-listed status by government agency Historic Scotland.

The move means that planners will now need consent for any alterations to the building.

The decision drew criticism from deputy council le
ader Steve Cardownie, who said it could jeopardise future developments on Princes Street and told Historic Scotland to "get a life".

Dr Deborah Mays, head of listing at Historic Scotland, said: "If you wanted to point to an example of a purpose-built, post-war department store, this really is the best example.

"It shows how the approach to enticing customers through and around the shop has changed from the time that Jenners, for instance, was constructed and is the result of a deliberate attempt to reinvigorate the retail provision on Princes Street to cater to more modern shopping needs."

But Cllr Cardownie said the decision could stall investment in the famous shopping street.

"Each to their own, but some of them (Historic Scotland] need to go out and get a life," he said.

"I'm sure people will be surprised by this decision and will be looking with a new sense of wonderment at this building."

The building, at 64 Princes Street, was completed in the late 1960s and was among a group of developments built with first-floor walkways.

Dubbed "panel buildings" after a panel of Edinburgh planners, the ultimate intention was to create a continuous second street above Princes Street.

Designers RMJM, who would later work on the Scottish Parliament building, were also responsible for other city icons such as the Royal Commonwealth Pool and Edinburgh University's David Hume Tower.

Leading architect Malcolm Fraser, whose projects include the Scottish Storytelling Centre on the Royal Mile, said not all modernist buildings deserved a bad name.

He said: "There are a lot of very bad 1960s buildings on Princes Street, but this is not one of them.

"I think it's interesting that there are people who would wipe out all traces of the 1960s, but I note that there were, 40 years ago, those who felt the same about all Victorian architecture. The building that Bhs replaced was fabulous and I still regret its passing. I applaud Historic Scotland for taking the initiative here."

Dr Miles Glendinning, director of the Scottish Centre for Conservation Studies at Edinburgh College of Art, said there was a "nostalgia" for the design of the 1960s and 1970s.

He said: "This is an excellent decision. The Bhs building is significant in urban design terms as an exemplar of the Princes Street plan of the 1960s. There's a lot of nostalgia among the public for the sixtiess and seventies. The decision to list this building might baffle someone of Princes Charles' age, but younger people very much appreciate and comprehend modern design."





The full article contains 506 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 01 December 2008 11:39 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Sister Morag,

Lasswade 01/12/2008 12:20:30
"...get a life"?

Nice to see Mr Cardownie proferring a well-argued and mature contribution to this issue.
2

Buttress,

01/12/2008 12:27:09
I agree, possibly it's Cardownie who should get some understanding of architecture and Historic Scotlan's role (as an arm of government) in protecting this.

Sadly, that quote says a great deal about how the city 'leaders' see heritage issues.

www.eh8.org.uk

It should be possible to conserve what is good about Princes Street without resorting to damaging demolitions.

3

Starkravingsane,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 12:30:10
I still remember old Forsythe's store. That was a beautiful, grand building and a fine institution. Lost in time now.
4

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 12:32:54
It would be interesting to know if the owners had any option in this decision, or is this just another example of conservation/heritage paranoia?

Admittedly, as it was built in the 60s it would porbably just fall down by itself anyway.



5

Buttress,

01/12/2008 12:33:49
Mind you, I think considering Fraser's involvement in Caltongate and the demolitions for that, maybe he should have kept quiet?

6

Buttress,

01/12/2008 12:36:25
Actaully Peter, (more of your ill-informed comments I see) it is a good example of a period in Edinburgh's architectural history.

Deserves the listing. But then you are happy, or at least pretend to be in the persona you adopt for these pages, to see historic buildings demolished and think the Caltongate development a good idea, so I think maybe any comments you make should be put in that context.
7

Buttress,

01/12/2008 12:46:06
"The decision to list this building might baffle someone of Princes Charles' age, but younger people very much appreciate and comprehend modern design."

What appalling ageist rubbish though!




8

aleex,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 12:47:43
Oh dear, city councillors slamming heritage watchdogs when the Council has pushed for demolition of listed building to create the Caltongate monstrosity.

Cardownie - if the Council could be trusted to make sensible decisions over planning, demolition and construction in Edinburgh, there would be no need for Historic Scotland to list buildings!
9

Buttress,

01/12/2008 12:57:15
No doubt Cardownie will be pushing for the demolitions which are proposed of listed buildings and a nasty glass facade scheme further along Princes Street, for a hotel and department store, which both EWH and HS are not happy with.

The glass hotel proposal is really, really bad design.

But hey, heritage issues can't be allowed to get in the way of fat development profits, can they?

This is why we have Historic Scotland Cardownie - not that it's perfect, but at least it does give us some protection from folk like you.

I wait anti-heritage Coun Cameron('I voted for Caltongate, Haymarket Tower and the ruination of the Odeon') Rose's reaction with interest. His blog is always amusing.





10

Arfur,

01/12/2008 13:02:03
ugly building on a ugly street.

these buildings should be geeting ripped doen not given listed status. you really have to wonder about some folk.
11

scotsol,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 13:06:02
#3 - Forsyth's building is still there, you know, just called Top Man now. For once I agree with Cardownie, though. BHS is nasty 60s dirty concrete tat of the type that has wrecked Princes Street.
12

Buttress,

01/12/2008 13:07:17
Wonder about who?

I think it a worthwhile building to have listed. Not ugly, unlike the one Malcolm Fraser has designed for Caltongate... now that is ugly.

;-)
13

Buttress,

01/12/2008 13:08:29
I like the Listed Commonwealth Pool too, and hey, I'm older than Prince Charles!

14

Boy Wonder,

01/12/2008 13:14:58
It's bloody Council needs to get a life!! Somewhere else!!!
15

alex paterson,

edinburgh 01/12/2008 13:16:19
Well said Stevie C.it is a disgrace.
16

AbandonAllHope,

01/12/2008 13:23:58
Cardownie's out of order here, sounds like he's a bit of a thug in his head.
17

Buttress,

01/12/2008 13:27:04
I think Cardownie is out of order too, but just shows what Philistines are running the show in the city.



18

Finbarr Saunders,

01/12/2008 13:57:02
#1 - Sister morag - "...get a life"? Nice to see Mr Cardownie proferring a well-argued and mature contribution to this issue."

Is it true that, when challenged , Cllr Cardownie challenged the head of Historic Scotland to a "square go" to settle the issue?
19

Buttress,

01/12/2008 14:00:06
With Malcolm 'Saviour of HBOS' cheering him on?

20

dba,

Haymarket 01/12/2008 14:54:29
Dear Councillor Cardownie,

'Get a life eh? Well, Steve, how about the draconian cuts to the budgets of many charity and voluntary groups across the city at short notice earliet this year? How about the archictectural vandalism of the Caltongate and Haymarket developments? How about the annual Kultral 'Hiroshima' devastating East Princes Street Gardens? How about police personnel and vehicles being abusde by senior councillors going drinking after a football match? How about the utter mayhem of the trams project?

Seriously - Steve - you may well have to 'get a real job - and a real life' come the next elections for you appear to have a slight 'reality deficit' as to whom and how you are supposed to represent the citizens of Edinburgh!
21

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 01/12/2008 15:39:19
#13 Buttress,01/12/2008 13:08:29

"hey, I'm older than Prince Charles!"

My God Buttress - you're not Camilla are you?

"it is a good example of a period in Edinburgh's architectural history."

Well, there's a thing. Then why are so many of the buildings of the same era now either no longer with us or on the verge of collapse? For example: Portobello High School, Lothian Rgion HQ in George IV Bridge and many more besides.

Buttress, there are oo many dung heaps being wrapped up in cotton wool in Edinburgh, the philosophy seems to be if it's 'old' conserve it. Sorry, that's neither viable nor desirable.



22

Buttress,

01/12/2008 15:47:12
What era is your uPVC windowed listed building then Peewee?

While I agree that there was some crud built, which no-one would be sorry to lose, the BHS building is both a good example of the type and viable. Which is why it was listed.
23

Spathiphyllum,

01/12/2008 16:00:41
It is ugly.
Princes Street is ugly.
Jenners isn't even Jenners any more.
24

TM,

LA, USA 01/12/2008 18:50:12
Not relevant to this story of course but I thought I would post a link to a story about Donald Trump being sued regarding his latest real estate developement.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/around_town/real_estate/Trump-Sued-Over-Chicago-Tower.html

You want to see ugly architecture just let Trump go forward with his east coast golf developement....
25

Think Tank,

01/12/2008 19:53:50
I think the BHS store is probably the best example of 1960s architecture that absolutely deserves listing. I hope that by preserving this example, some of the more weary and uninspiring buildings on the street may meet their maker all the sooner.

Steve Cardownie has proven himself, across a wide range of matters, to be a man who speaks before thinking. Let nobody forget that he has strong views on accountability and falling on one's sword in the event of perceived public error (re: tram road works on Princes street). We're watching you Steve.


26

elayne,

01/12/2008 20:14:50
#25 yes its quite a good example of the architecture of the 60s without being too harsh looking and brutalist(like the st james centre)it actually fits in quite well within the area,modernist architecture has its place in edinburgh too
27

Peter Wyngarde,

01/12/2008 23:58:52
Perhaps we could knock down Steve Cardownie, I for one would feel that would make a major contribution to making Edinburgh a better place to live...
28

onecoleslaw,

Wit's End 02/12/2008 15:14:17
Just because something is old, it doesn't necessarily follow that it's worth saving.

Not that I'm standing up for them, but the planners can't win. Knock something down - you get a pasting, prevent something being knocked down - you get a pasting.


 

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