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1

Mallory,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 12:00:37
Saving 1500 council salaries would go a long way towards helping the numerous cuts in important groups and services.
2

JulesF,

Kirkliston 30/10/2008 12:02:18
A flexitime system is similar to an honesty box.

Goose and Gander comes to mind !
3

Skip McClendon,

30/10/2008 12:02:50
Flexitime is a great benefit for working parents etc, but it is too easy to abuse.

There have to be better controls in place to target and abuse of the system. Simply allowing "keying" in an out, without any other controls, is a gift to some less than honest workers.
4

The Judge,

30/10/2008 12:05:29
"This appears to have been happening for some time and the practice must stop now.

No sackings
No disciplinary action
No balls

This is worse than the thieving councillors stealing their lunches. Yet once again ECC do nothing.

Remember all those tradesmen ripping off the council a few months back? Not one of them faced disciplinary action.

5

blackley,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 12:09:19
There are so many good folk working for the council but they are being let down by this cynical minority.
6

Jingsitsme,

EDINBURGH 30/10/2008 12:11:54
Take the flexi time away. That's what happens in the business world if it is abused.

They can't be trusted. We are being ripped off well and truly from top to bottom.

What are they doing about it? Nothing!!

Pay them for whistleblowing and we will soon weed the rubbish out

7

Victoria Ian,

30/10/2008 12:20:50
What a great investigation! They are hardly going to cheat the system now!!!!
8

Franky McNostril,

Bensonhurst NYC 30/10/2008 12:29:42
Free soup, a roll and a sleep, sounds great.

Ohh wait a minute, I didn't know the councillors were on flexi-time?
9

,

30/10/2008 12:31:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

Franky McNostril,

You need hands 30/10/2008 12:31:56
Has the girl in the picture got a massive left hand or what? It's bigger than her head.
11

Brian Ferrari,

30/10/2008 12:33:27
Obviously the work still gets done though. Which begs the question: Is the Council HQ over-staffed?
12

alex paterson,

edinburgh 30/10/2008 12:33:51
So what is new,council workers even sleep on the job.
13

Randan,

30/10/2008 12:34:21
#9 That's a bit harsh.
The time it takes to train the chimps means it'll probably only be about a 200% increase n productivity.
14

,

30/10/2008 12:35:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
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15

Hmm?,

30/10/2008 12:37:32
>>1 "Saving 1500 council salaries would go a long way towards helping the numerous cuts in important groups and services."

That's a great idea until you actually come to wanting something done and then find out you've got rid of the staff that would have done it.

Honestly, do people like you have half a braincell?...
16

Grad 1,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 12:39:19
If staff are starting late and/or leaving early then then this would or should reflect in their difficulty to achieve the work set out for them.
This highlights, more alarmingly, that Council management are unable to adequately review or monitor individual performance and explains just why it takes so long to get anything done when the Council are involved.
What it doesn't explain is how they able to justify many target related bonuses that they give and receive or if the taxpayer is getting value for money.
On the latter question I suspect the answer is they are a country mile away from providing value for money.
17

JFW,

30/10/2008 12:39:30
Why is flexi-time in place for staff that are should be available to the public during a normal working day, which you could reasonably expect to be 9-5. Has anyone every tried to get through to some council services after 2:30 on a Friday - I've often had to call the refuse collection people, on their so-called hotline, when neigbouring students would leave a load of bags out on a Friday afternoon to be ripped apart by gulls and vermin over the weekend. I never once got an answer after 2:30pm.
18

davethorn,

now living in England 30/10/2008 12:42:31
I worked for SEERAD for several months before leaving (either that or die of boredem). It was an hours culture not a work culture. All you had to do was work your 40 hours (no flexi-time) and usually very little productive work during the time you were paid. Thats because the jobs are dull, repetitive , no challenege and poor management. You can make flexi time work if you motivate your staff and cut the b***s**** .
19

Hmm?,

30/10/2008 12:43:03
"Staff are said to have been getting colleagues to clock them in and out of work at the council's new headquarters..."

Notice the words "are said". It's probably difficult for the Council to take any disciplinary action against any individiuals unless they can prove that those individuals have abused the flexi system. It might be difficult to get that proof.

You couldn't just rely on someone accusing (whistleblowing) people without some other evidence.

Presumably the Council are investigating and will take appropriate action against those involved.

Or am I being too sensible here?
20

johnny boy,

edinburgh 30/10/2008 12:43:06
Once again the public sector rips off the majority of the population. Flexi time equals a scivers charter. On top of this they still have a final salary pension scheme with retiral at 60 which is not propertly funded and therefore the rest of us have to fund them. Then they have the audacity to threaten us with strikes. When is The Graet Bristish public going to start a revolution against the public sector?
21

The Honest Lad,

Musselburgh 30/10/2008 12:44:30
#17 Thats cause were all away to the pub spending your taxes that get paid to us as salaries. Mmmmm Beer
22

,

30/10/2008 12:44:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
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23

Steven P,

edinburgh 30/10/2008 12:48:58
"An e-mail, sent on Friday by Mr Inch, warns staff they will face disciplinary action if they are caught during the spot checks being carried out over the next few weeks."

In other words, an amnesty for those employees at it already, and even a warning to alert them that they may now be checked.

Some disciplinarian Mr Inch. A cynic might think you were in on the scam yourself.

Any wonder that the general public have such a low opinion of local government loafers and free-loaders.
24

Prin the Dissolving Donkey,

30/10/2008 12:49:16
20.

"When is The Graet Bristish public going to start a revolution against the public sector?"

I'd rather have a revolution against maggot-brained retards who can't spell 'Great British'.
25

Scotish Exile,

30/10/2008 12:50:53
been going on for years and not just in the Council, most systems are wide open to abuse.
26

malcyh,

30/10/2008 12:51:15
First the honesty box issue with the councillors and now this.
Is it fraud?
27

,

30/10/2008 12:57:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
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28

Steven P,

edinburgh 30/10/2008 12:58:59
Draft UNISON press release -
"We represent 1700 local government employees, many of them idle, ignorant and wholly unemployable elsewhere. We strongly oppose any action to alter our members rights to abuse, cheat and manipulate their working terms and conditions."
29

Ecto,

30/10/2008 12:59:50
If this is true then the council should be judged on how many dismissals are made as a result of a thourough investigation, the unions should not be defending these parasites who are living of the rest of us, accruing their rich pensions.

30

Bob 2,

30/10/2008 13:05:06
20 johnny boy,edinburgh 30/10/2008 12:43:06
Once again the public sector rips off the majority of the population.

And of Course the BANKS have done so well, ripping the public off for years, while making huge profits, bonuses and salaries.

And when things go pear shape, they come to the Public Purse to bail them out from taxpayers money.
31

Ecto,

30/10/2008 13:06:37
#30 Bob you have a choice whether or not to be ripped off by the bank, you do not have a choice over paying the cooncil tax.
32

Randan,

30/10/2008 13:08:29
These council workers aren't stupid, in fact it looks like there's a few on here trying to deflect the criticism.
33

Randan,

30/10/2008 13:09:17
... but obviously they'll have clocked out for their lunch hour?!?
34

Big T,

30/10/2008 13:10:08
A long lie in the morning, sneaking off early to the pub and a final salary scheme that those of us non public sector workers can only dream of!
35

Bob 2,

30/10/2008 13:25:21
31 Ecto,30/10/2008 13:06:37
#30 Bob you have a choice whether or not to be ripped off by the bank, .

Don't think so... The FSA and the Government have let them off for years, BILLIONS in profits.... what ever happened to putting money away for a rainy day.

With banks lending money to people who shouldn't have been lent large sums of money.

36

Crivvens,

30/10/2008 13:26:45
You have a basic choice when you compare a public sector job to a private sector job; low wages high job security with pension or higher wages low job security and buggerall pension; its all swings and roundabouts.
37

Lally Mc,

Leith 30/10/2008 13:47:41
Unlike the workers of TIE, Banks, Standard Life, John Lewis etc Council staff DON'T get big bonuses and why should they they are paid to do a job and believe it or not there are lots in the council who are dedicated to their work and this is despite the fact they are still fighting for a decent pay increase. Still I suppose you could say the ones who have been having a lie in are keeping up with those on the dole who get paid for staying in their bed or standing in the pub all day.
38

Barbapapa,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 13:54:45
Do the employees of City of Edinburgh Council not realise what a luxury flexi time is??? Abusing the system is going to ruin it for everyone else, the very same people who really need it. I worked for Edinburgh Council for a while and although they are not known to be high payers, there is a contributory pension scheme and flexi time. Don't ruin it for everyone else!!!!
39

The Judge,

30/10/2008 13:57:53
#37 Some council staff receive annual bonuses. Low end, low skilled council workers don't, well apart from the highly paid low skilled staff at the old cleansing department.

This is just another case of theft, along with the tradesmen who ripped the council off nothing will ever happen. The unions have the council by the balls and there's not a dammed thing we can do about it.

Very easy solution, scrap flexi time for all office workers and introduce fixed working hours. If the staff don't like it they can always find another job.
40

Ron S,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 14:11:12
This might be more serious than it at first seems.

The normal way of 'clocking-in' these days is by using a personal employee identity card. The only way to cheat therefore, is to use someone else's ID card to gain entry, to fool the system into counting that person as present. If this is the case with CEC (perhaps someone could confirm this) then we have a serious problem not only with fraudulent claims for payment but also with both health and safety, and data security.
eg:
a) Not knowing how many people are in the building in case of a fire or other emergency.
b) Potential fraudulent use of ID by employees access CEC data otherwise not available to them.

How many CEC employees have thus fraudulently accessed data on me? Or you?
41

Angus R,

30/10/2008 14:21:56
Hark at all the holier than now comments who are posting whilst they should be at work.............oops!!
42

,

30/10/2008 14:38:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
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43

Scotish Exile,

30/10/2008 14:48:45
#42, simple solution, let them hang loose
44

Dunaskin,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 15:15:45
Lots of private-sector businesses work flexitime systems. My employer does. It does get abused in a steady low-level way; for instance, we get 30 mins for lunch (no clocking in/out) - but lots of folk take more that that. Some folk come in early and have breakfast(!!) within working time. But at the end of the day the system works, and the work gets done. It isn't just women who benefit - quite a few dads here (myself included) take and collect children from time to time and the flexibility is a real benefit, and makes for a happier and more productive workforce. Back to work....
45

,

30/10/2008 15:29:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
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46

,

30/10/2008 16:00:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
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47

Man On Corstorphine Omnibus,

30/10/2008 16:13:28
Those "workers" at Edinburgh City Council are a bunch of skivvers who by abusing the flexitime system are effectively robbing the council taxpayer.

But what does this incident say about the so-called management? Director of Corporate Services sends out an e-mail effectively warning said skivvers that spot checks will be taking place.......so, of course, they'll behave for a few weeks, then of course things will get back to "normal".
48

Lally Mc,

Leith 30/10/2008 16:16:31
No.39 Do you work for the council and get a bonus? I do and don't, nor am I highly paid and I am dedicated to the work I do
49

Jingsitsme,

EDINBURGH 30/10/2008 16:44:41
#48 well you must be one of the very few!
50

Robert12,

Edinburgh 30/10/2008 17:57:31
Yet more utter tosh from the Evening News.

How exactly do the employees get past security if their pal has their pass? You could have walked past those guys for the past 20 years and they still refuse to let you in without a pass! Also, as managers get copies of the clock ins, is it not likely they may notice if an employee is clocked in at 8:30am when they didn't turn up til 10am?

What is more likely is staff are clocking out for lunch then clocking back in after half an hour whilst taking an hour. Just because it's been sent to 1700 staff in Corporate Services doesn't mean the whole department has been doing it. Not like the Evening News to generalise though is it...
51

,

30/10/2008 18:30:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
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52

flyman,

glasgow 30/10/2008 18:53:29
these baskets should be jailed
53

flyman,

glasgow 30/10/2008 18:55:47
45 shows yer mameries
54

flyman,

glasgow 30/10/2008 18:55:57
45 shows yer mameries
55

flyman,

glasgow 30/10/2008 18:56:53
45 shows what size are they
56

Alberto.,

30/10/2008 20:00:50
"A total of 1700 council workers have been warned they face disciplinary action if they are caught cheating the system"

********************

Firstly, if it is a known procedure, it must mean there is a major laxity in overall Management, for some / any of the 'alleged' workforce being able to 'operate' such a system, seemingly quite unhampered, that the question must be asked - 'are some of / maybe all, the management in on this game of a quite fairly obvious Human failing (all ranks!) - one way or another, apparently following the old proverb - 'While the Cat's away etc!'- as they obviously do!

It's very worrying knowing that we, the taxpayer - as they also are, actually pay, with our hard earned cash, such presumably trusted people who, seemingly, at best, can only come up with this childish mentality in their approach to 'Earning their Corn!' - with as little effort possible - notwithstanding, presumably, the brazen ‘illegality of it all!

If staff cannot be trusted to ‘pull their weight’ at the job - then ‘Getting rid’ is the only satisfactory conclusion to improve such a situation, but as we see - in most cases of Council wrongdoers - all classes - ‘Getting Rid’ is a definite No! No! - a Taboo! - Unheard of etc.

So what is this amazing ‘Disciplinary action they face, or does informing us of that procedure mean putting the ‘Cat (that hasn’t gone away!) amongst the pigeons?’ and would the Cat be somewhat ‘overwhelmed!!!


57

The Ayrshire Bard,

30/10/2008 20:03:14
It would be interesting to know how much time council employees waste playing games and sending e.mails on their computers. The workplace is now regarded by many as somewhere to go for a bit of fun. The huge number of unsupervised computers available coupled with an undisciplined work force makes for very high council taxes before flexi time is even considered.
58

The real dracula,

Transylvania 30/10/2008 20:04:46
I used to work flexi time but hadnt thought of cheating anyway our boss was a cow , she'd have caught us straight away.
Like my bank account I was always in debt getting up late going home early ,,,just too tempting !!!

When I left I had to give up 2 days annual leave I was in so much debt !!!!!!
59

rs,

. a lot of chancers 30/10/2008 20:27:54
interesting thing about flexi.

you'll find most major employers have it.

you'll find that it helps cover "office hours" in most businesses, or you could see everyone going for their lunch from 1.00-2.00pm.
60

Harry007,

30/10/2008 20:33:53
The email from Jim Inch did not say;

- People are sneaking off to the pub
- People are being paid whilst they lie in bed

So where did Andrew Picken get this information to include in his article? In my opinion he has plucked it out thin air to make a non story a story.

In any large organisation there will be people who try and pull a fast one yet the Evening News constantly report the most inane drivel about the Council and try and make it newsworthy.

The other week they report the Council has spent £20,000 on upgrading an £80million building from a budget of £900million...hardly going to win you journalist of the year is it!!!

I accept that all public sector organisations should be open and transparent and the Council isn't perfect but in my dealings with them the people I have spoken to are courteous and helpful.
61

Parsons,

30/10/2008 21:21:04
I used to work at the Coonsil and I "stole" hours abusing the flexi system! Half an hour every lunchtime and I'd knock off at , go down to the subsidised gym and have an hour in there on the clock! Happy days!!! Anyone with any sense would do the same!!
62

Robert12,

30/10/2008 22:32:08
What the e-mail actually said was that people shouldn't be using the gym whilst still clocked in at night. It said nothing about staff getting their mates to clock in for them. A complete fabrication by the Evening News as per usual.

As for games, they are blocked on council machines along with social networking sites, Bebo etc.

The Evening News has a constant vendetta. The story last week about the glass wall was hilarious. I look forward to their next story.
63

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 30/10/2008 23:01:54
i.guess.the.flexi.system.is.to.flexible
64

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 31/10/2008 01:14:48
This doesn't surprise me at all!! All those that are caught cheating - sack them - it's as simple as that. In the meantime - stop the flexi working - it is obvious they are not honest enough to benefit from such a system. Force them to work hours that benefit the community they are paid to serve - and lets not forget - it is the community that pays their wages - so they should be grateful of a job.
65

common sense voice,

31/10/2008 05:00:34
some of the scam's I've heard about in jobs with "the region" would blow your mind. Clock in - then drive off for breakfast, legendary time off sick, theft, homers, incompetency, nepatism, OT money you'd not believe. This is socialism at it's worst and typical when you can just get the common man to pay a little more to top up the coffers.

friends look after friends, jokers get all the promotions (cos they can be trusted....) you know what I mean.

Unfortunately it will never change, things have gone too far already. When u get a change of government they will spin off more dept's (for their friends) to break up structures, practices etc etc and the leeches in charge will just be more difficult towards that gov. as we saw during the Maggie/JM years.

66

Decent,

31/10/2008 09:27:03
61 - Anyone with any decency wouldn't.
67

Pazuzu,

31/10/2008 10:49:22
Franky McNostril:

Aye that is some size of hand she has, maybe the Honesty Box is hidden in there somewhere.

Fed up with this Local Council cr%p, they should all be held accountable.
68

niddrienutters,

Edinburgh 31/10/2008 12:26:50
If the council only define 1700 as being asleep how are they others defined given the level of inactivity and incompetence?
69

hubris,

31/10/2008 13:07:29
I agree entirely with 65

having worked for the council i confirm the sad accuracy of what is said

Only if some sort of accountability is introduced will it change
70

tumshie heid,

31/10/2008 23:44:52
Council workers are there because they know it's an easy life. Holidays in abundance, a sick day allocation which is treated as a target to be met, scams left right and centre. I could go on but it's irritating as thats why we pay so much council tax.
Cut the workforce down drastically and put an end to the scandalous waste of money that is the public sector.
71

rs,

in ma house 01/11/2008 10:37:59
Staff at any company were the staff are on Flexi gives some sort of monitoring.

But what about the Bosses who are not on Flexi, who watches them?

Probably themselves!

Comment 70, you'll find the Private sector is no better.

 

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