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Doctors' pulses racing over patient-care rating website



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Published Date: 15 July 2008
DOCTORS today hit out at a new website encouraging patients to rate their standard of care.
Medics believe iwantgreatcare.org will lead to professionals being unfairly criticised and even libelled.

The site, which has been set up by an English doctor, went live at the weekend and i
ncludes the details of dozens of Edinburgh hospital doctors and GPs, which the site's bosses say were taken from the most up-to-date records available.

People can rate them out of 100 in trust, listening and recommended categories, and leave comments.

However, one consultant had used his own rating to protest about being included, especially as he has now left the Western General Hospital, where he is listed as working as a urologist.

David Tulloch wrote: "I am the above named.

"I strongly protest the inclusion of my details on this website without my express consent.

"I no longer practise in the UK and, although I feel my practice has been good, I strongly resent the way this website has been started."

The British Medical Association has also been critical of the site.

Dr Dean Marshall, chairman of the BMA's Scottish general practitioners committee, said: "I can accept the argument that we should be rated, but we give questionnaires to patients to fill in anonymously so they can be honest.

"Very few doctors are not aware of what their patients think.

"Obviously there are concerns about it being libellous. A patient could have not been given what they wanted. That might have been appropriate, but they might then give that doctor a bad rating, which would be unfair.

"It is being marketed as some great new way of improving patient care, but I have my doubts. It is much more useful for patients to let their own GPs know their opinions."

Despite its opposition, the BMA has no plans to try and get the website shut down.

Similar sites for other professions, such as Rate My Teacher, have led to concerns about bullying, abuse and libel.

The creators of I Want Great Care believe they have included the necessary safeguards to make sure it is used in a constructive way.

Dr Neil Bacon, who previously set up www.doctors.net.uk which is now used by 95 per cent of doctors in the country, said: "We have technology to track specific phrases so if people use a swearword their comment will not go on and they won't be able to return to the site.

"If people give a score which is 20 per cent less than the average then it gets flagged up and we check for abusive comments. And when you make a comment you receive an e-mail which you have to confirm before it goes live."

Dr Bacon, who has taken a year away from medicine but plans to return to his job as a kidney specialist, having previously worked at the Churchill Hospital in Oxford, added: "When we were looking at setting this up we spoke to hundreds and hundreds of patients through groups and associations and every single one has welcomed the idea.

"Doctors have of course been concerned about how this will run but, when they see how professional it is, everyone I've spoken to has said the protection against abuse is fantastic."

NHS Lothian declined to comment on the website.

www.nhslothian.scot.nhs.uk
www.bma.org.uk
www.iwantgreatcare.org




The full article contains 578 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 July 2008 1:43 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Health of the NHS
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/07/2008 11:56:21

Its all rather bizarre for the Profession, but one may argue the point, that it would not be on line in the first place, if the ones in their Profession, had not created problems and brought their Profession into a state disrepute.

Afterall who's brainchild was it anyhow,?

Yes a Doctor!
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/07/2008 12:14:26

Just been playing around with the site "iwantgreatcare.org" for the last half hour!

No-one need worry! the site is 'wanked' anyhow!

Put an Edinburgh search in, and it give you a Doctor from bloody Manchester as a result!
3

Boy Wonder,

15/07/2008 13:11:48
#3. Give him a break AFAMMV. Chuckles IS 94 after all, It takes him all his time to read the instructions first!
4

jjkiller,

15/07/2008 13:21:46
The amount of trouble making patients out there would make a mockery of this system, patients are always constantly complaining about something and I tell you that the dole scum and junkies are the worst always moaning about how long they have to wait etc
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/07/2008 13:25:08

BW ~3,

Dinny get Smart!
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/07/2008 13:25:56
re correction

BW ~4,

Dinny get Smart
7

James2122,

15/07/2008 14:10:16
The internet has many forums where people can exchange information and views. You can find restaurant ratings, hotels, books, music reviews, film reviews, price comparisons, "WHICH" review all kinds of products and services and uploads the info to the internet. Other sites compare banks and their services, others Cars and so on and so forth. Ebay has built it's whole membership credibility model on feedback.
Why do doctors think they should somehow be exempt from criticism positive or negative?
They should have a chance to respond and should also remember that most people will be aware that patients' opinions may not be correct.
8

MARY MCGINNIS,

EDINBURGH 15/07/2008 15:33:25
when people die from a direct result from doctors not listening to them with things like cancer if diagnosed quicker can be the difference between life and death and this is happening far to often and is just not being addressed .Surely doctors need to take some responsability where this is the case and people are going to their gps with symtoms over the corse of months and then being told oh sorry theirs nothing we can do now its progressed to far u will be dead within six months sorry we didnt listen to you before even if u do look like a dead corspe walking. This is happening everday as was in the case of my mother if it wasnt for a certain doctor .but again to late she died to young and suffered horrific pain during her illness just from in my opinion one gp .when a daughter has to go to a doctorS with fears her mothers gravely ill and dying from cancer theres something far wrong!
9

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/07/2008 15:45:12

MARY MCGINNIS ~9,

I sorry to hear about your Loss and the plight you went through.

This is one reason I 'harp-on' so much about Womens Health matters.
10

Dr JS,

ABERDEEN 15/07/2008 16:06:45
I agree to some extent that standards may improve if there is some kind of "feedback system" in place to rate experience of care

However, I am also aware of the potential drawbacks, that I fear will occur as a result of this system.

Remember dear old Harold Shipman folks?? Well he was a much loved single handed GP. I doubt that many of his patients would have had a bad word to say regarding the "care" he provided.

"Great care " is a difficult thing to "quantify", and the parameters listed on this site are still vague and open to different interpretation.

The emphasis here seems to be a shift in responsibility of care. I regularly "refuse" patients treatments, referrals etc if i do not believe them to be in the best interests of my patients, and although it may not be popular, I can justify my decisions on "clinical grounds" (all evidence based of course.) so what does that mean for my patients who are refused something they dearly wish for. they can now choose to "throw their toys out of the pram" (remember the customer....however uneducated is always right!!)....... they can now take revenge and "hang me out to dry in public!!!" WONDERFUL

But on the flip side of the coin, im sure there are a large number of happy and satisfied patients I have seen over the years who may "balance the negatives" and post something kind and realistic.

Just remember folks "Dr Lickspittal" although pandering to your every whim, may not be the best clinician..........perhaps one day I may be able to "rate my patients!"...........nah.....they dinne pay me enough to cover the cost of the libel claims that would come knocking.!

11

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/07/2008 16:22:38

Dr JS ~11,

Yet again your, 'sense of humour' is apparent in your comment.
I had to read the last paragraph twice! thought that your "Dr Lickspittal" was referring to me! :)

12

tomias,

Edinburgh 15/07/2008 16:28:11
Try the Cowgate site-opposite Blackfriars Street;Some interesting doctors there as well as excellnt technicians; I'd recommend this place to oh so many posting on the EEN site.!!!!
And it is clean with NO nasty bugs claiming patients or clients- take my word for it
13

Dr JS,

ABERDEEN 15/07/2008 16:47:27
Thank you Charles

At last you can get your own back on that "negligent" doctor in your now infamous meningitis scenario!

You never mentioned his name, but im sure he is "shaking in his boots" right now. Go get him tiger.

And as for "Dr Lickspittal" Im sure you will be hearing a great deal of him in the near future. Yes sir, he will be nominated for various awards, lifetime achievements, hereditary peerages, OBE'S, knighthoods etc etc......... all for his commendable services to medicine.(sorry I meant his patients)

Maybe the doctors of the future will be able to enroll in acting lessons as part of their medical training to improve their "rapport" with patients. Someday in the not to distant future we will all have smiles as genuine as our dear prime minister "incapability Brown"!!!







14

James2122,

15/07/2008 16:48:34
#11 Dr JS
eh you doubt that many of Harold Shipman's "patients would have had a bad word to say regarding the 'care' he provided".
Well why would they? Once he'd done his harm they were dead. However a number of his patient's relatives DID have concerns that were not taken on board by anyone!! This forum could have been a place where one of these concerns posted, could have prompted another.. and another. So this kind of forum could have been just the thing to stop him much earlier.
I worry that a doctor might not have thought of this point. I hope you are not my doctor, your analysis capability is very poor.
Furthermore, you use the metaphor "flip side of a coin" which only has two sides and so your high handed posting only seems to cover 2 possibilities:
1. That you are wrongly criticised by the "uneducated"
2. That you are praised by others who "post something kind and realistic"
OMG how arrogant!!!
The actual reality is that doctors ARE NOT perfect and dare I say it YOU ARE NOT perfect... sometimes you will provide a less than perfect service.
So again I'm surprised that you did not mention this third possibility.
Here are 2 more possibilities:
1. You are not a doctor
2. You are an arogant doctor and should not be a doctor.

I hope it's no 1, but if its 2 then I'm sorry if this offends you.



15

Dr JS,

ABERDEEN 15/07/2008 17:09:00
Dear James at comment 15

I, realise that I am not perfect , but thank you for reminding me of that fact! point taken.....grovel grovel.........would you like a cup of tea, one sugar or two! perhaps whilst you are here I can shine your shoes!!! or would you like the "shirt off my back!"....... Now sir can you kindly rate me highly so that I can continue to do what I spent years training to do!!!!!

In all seriousness sir, my comments were made to highlight that a more robust sysytem of feedback is necessary to

1. take patients views into account.
2. improve the standards of clinical care

but one must make sure that professionals are not made scapegoats for things that might not be within there control. The very basis of the NHS (finite resources) means decisions have to be made, which may not always be "popular"

Dr Lickspittal may offer "service with a smile" but will he be a responsible cusodian of a "finite budget?".

One must be very careful when trying to run our NHS on free market principals. "the customer is always right " has worked well for TESCOes but probably is not the best thing when it comes to a tax funded health system.






16

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/07/2008 21:49:09

Dr JS,

Now I do feel sorry for what you Doctors have to put up with.

James2122, Don't give the Doc a hard time! :)
I like our local Scotsman Dr JS and had many a good argument with him, albeit the innuendos of me being 'Sectioned' at times, this being started by our,..
'Boy Wonder' (trouble maker)

Anyhow Dr JS the, "Meningitis scenario"!

NO!I am not gunning for any Doctor, it was only an illustration of concern,

But if memory serves me correct, Edinburgh had a case of a child dying closely related to my scenario.

Getting back to the subject of Topic, the mentioned web-site is pretty rubbish, so maybe it wont take off and all will be 'Well'!

17

Ian down under,

Kawerau 15/07/2008 22:28:30
I trust we will have similar websites for named lawyers, accountants, MPs/MSPs/Councillors, lorry drivers, farmers, airline pilots, supermarket managers, homeopaths/osteopaths/gardenpaths and any other group who directly affect the health, wellbeing and finances of the population.
As far as the NHS is concerned there should probably be a managerwatch site,a senior managerwatch site, a manager limousine controller watch besite too. How about a named journalist watch website.
How about simply a witch hunt.
I cannot imagine why anybody goes into medicine nowadays. The course is long and arduous, the working hours and conditions are dreadful and the entire population now knows more than the entire medical profession combined. The fraudulent quacks have such good publicity machines that they get all sorts of postivie spin and the poor doctors get flack.
18

Rodger the Leith lodger,

edinburgh 15/07/2008 22:30:26
#16 - such arrogance, and James2122 had you nailed spot on. You are an accountable public servant and making a lot of money, I want to know if you are worth that or not. There are, for example, physician assistants or practice nurses that might be more consistent and reliable and may in future provide a better service for us all. Time for the gravy train to arrive at the buffers?
19

Ian down under,

Kawerau 15/07/2008 23:59:30
#19 then make all public servants face the same accountability.
If you are concerned about the 'gravy train' then why are the numbers applying to join that train getting smaller and smaller. The answer is simple in that lots of other professions have shorter training times, and faster promotion to high salaries and nobody expects them to be 100% perfect and availbale 24 hours a day.
Doctors are human too and #16 is correct about the finite resources for the NHS and the rationing of services that is determined by politicians and bureaucrats, not doctors.
If British Airways decided to take one engine off all their jumbo jets and fly on 3 engines all the time would you blame the pilots for increased delays and more accidents? Probably not I hope, well the doctors and nurses are in that same position being asked to manage with meagre resources all the time, then carry the can if things go wrong.
20

Fi,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 03:27:44
#17 - Dr JS

I'm troubled;

1 - you claim to be a doctor - but a doctor of what? You make grammatical errors that would embarrass an eleven year old (if we could find their paper to mark it, but that's a side bar.)
2 - perhaps if families were not in an apoplectic state of grief, they might raise concerns over misdiagnosis more often? This website presents opinion, not fact, and that is a problem, but when distraught, who can reliably impart fact?

Doctors are not infallible, they're human. When they have reasonable doubt about their own diagnosis, they are bound, by ethics, to seek a second opinion.

Should the patient public be prevented from stating the fact that friends and relatives are dying because Doctors are not fulfilling this duty?
21

Dr JS,

the Deen 16/07/2008 06:39:21
16, 19, 21

Do you think that this system is indeed foolproof? For example the gentleman in 19 believes that he would be able to determine from the criteria listed on this website, if a doctor were "good or not?"

Utter nonsense. Can you explain to me what determines "good care?"

I can give you numerous examples and clinical scenarios , like my good friend Mr Linskaill that would highlight the fact that this may be used to "undermine" professional status.

I also know of many high calibre surgeons (who you may find insufferable) but who you most certainly would want near you in times of need.

Look also at the possibility that the website could could be manipulated by a poor performing doctor, who could set up "dummy reviews" to improve his status.

I think opinion can be very misleading indeed, especially since medical care can be so emotive.

No one is perfect or indeed immune from mistakes. This includes doctors.

And also remember, we are entering a time where there is growing resentment from within the profession (take it from me) of "continuous political meddling"
If you want real medical care from human beings, and not actors or "politicians" be very careful what you wish for.

If clinical autonomy continues to be eroded, your highly skilled doctors may one day choose to emigrate (it is after all very simple to do) and maybe some of you will get your wish of " physician assistants and nurses" taking control of your care!

My My times are interesting indeed are they not?




















 

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