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Tram works will stay on Princes Street for Festival

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Published Date: 06 May 2009
PRINCES Street will remain closed to traffic during this year's Festival as part of a bid to catch up on delayed tram works, city leaders confirmed today.
Abandoning a planned roadworks embargo will let tram firm TIE shave six weeks off its construction programme, allowing Princes Street to be fully reopened by early November in time for Christmas and Hogmanay.

It is anticipated that buses will return to Princes Street when work is finished, though calls for the busy shopping route to be fully pedestrianised mean this is not yet guaranteed. Officials are to identify sections of the street where work will be completed by August, and can be opened for pedestrians and Festival performers.

The Festival Fireworks will continue as planned on September 6, though spectators will be encouraged to use other vantage points such as Inverleith Park.

Discussions are continuing with Historic Scotland regarding the proposed use of Holyrood Park as an alternative venue for the Festival Cavalcade.

Minor construction work will also continue around St Andrew Square during August. Moves to continue working through the embargo, which are expected to be rubber-stamped by councillors next week, have been welcomed by the city's business community.

Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce deputy chief executive Graham Birse said: "The business community has been very clear from the start that we want the Edinburgh tram project completed as quickly as possible.

"By working through the Festival period we understand that the all-important Christmas and New Year embargo will apply."

Isabella Miller, general manager of John Lewis in Edinburgh, added: "I am delighted the council has found a way forward to minimise disruption for the Festival and allow the tram work to progress, so we can get Princes Street open as soon as possible."

Some of Princes Street's big retailers were keen for tram works to continue through the planned August embargo in a bid to avoid any danger of their lucrative Christmas trade being hit by over-running works.

Once work on the tram rails is completed in November, tram workers will return in 2010 to install the overhead electricity cables but the street will not need to be closed to traffic again.

City leader Jenny Dawe said: "We are proud to be building a modern, green tram system to promote Edinburgh's continued economic prosperity and the quality of life Edinburgh offers."

A feasibility study into banning traffic on Princes Street was ordered last month. And it is likely that any pedestrianisation plans would copy the format used for the tram works, with buses and taxis diverted along George Street.

apicken@edinburghnews.com


The full article contains 442 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

simonp,

06/05/2009 11:55:45
A great advert for the city
2

Skip McClendon,

06/05/2009 11:58:33
Another failure on TIE/CEC's commitments on the tramline...

Remember how there would be no work during the festival? Remember how tramlines would be laid on Leith Walk by November/January?

This latest flip-flop is just TIE/CEC moving the goalposts / re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic yet again...

What will the excuse be when they fail to meet their latest "commitment" to finish Princes Street works by the vital festive period, one wonders?
3

The Judge,

06/05/2009 12:12:29
Have The SNP/Lib Dem council & Tie got anything right with the tramLINE to no-where?

16 months till opening day and still not a single inch of line a laid.
4

Dave101,

Leith 06/05/2009 12:12:57
Good - better than filling it in then digging it up again after the festival
5

Daudi Baldrs,

Norway 06/05/2009 12:13:32
It's all going to be fine. The tourists will see the grubby "Edinburgh - open for business" sign, and they'll not laugh.
6

Andrew,

06/05/2009 12:15:23
1) I TOTALLY AGREE! The trams WILL be "a great advert for the city" !!!!!!
7

Daudi Baldrs,

Norway 06/05/2009 12:18:04
Trams will be a "great advert" for the city.
8

Sarcasm,

06/05/2009 12:18:10
How will be able to tell if there has been a terrorist attack?
9

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 12:19:52
Maybe the tourists will think that what they're seeing is actually part of the Fringe, and chuck some money at the 'performers?'
10

Skip McClendon,

06/05/2009 12:20:54
#8

It's the new form of extremist attack. Dig up a city and leave it looking like a bomb-site for years, all the while pretending it's a "world-class" something or other...
11

,

06/05/2009 12:25:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
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12

Hmm ...,

06/05/2009 12:30:57
... perhaps we would be best to hold the Edinburgh Festival in Glasgow this year!

They at least have the good sense not to rip up city centre roads to "progress" into the 19th Century!

And as for pedestrianising Princes Street, well, for restricting it to walkers and cyclists, have you ever heard anything so daft?

These people REALLY DO hate the city and its residents!
13

Bob 2,

06/05/2009 12:31:04
yawn

the only people laughing is the Rose Street shops, they must be rubbing there hands will all the extra shoppers passing just now

Funny how the TV coverage of the BUPA run at the weekend, managed to miss the tramworks on Princes Street.

Great flying by the helicopter pilots.

Edinburgh did look good from the sky
14

Bob 2,

06/05/2009 12:31:59
12 Hmm ...,06/05/2009 12:30:57
... perhaps we would be best to hold the Edinburgh Festival in Glasgow this year!


good idea, and they'd find out how great the shops are in Glasgow compared to Edinburgh.
15

pongo2009,

06/05/2009 12:32:25
City leader Jenny Dawe said: "We are proud to be building a modern, green tram system to promote Edinburgh's continued economic prosperity and the quality of life Edinburgh offers."


Ha, so not World Class any more?
16

Bob 2,

06/05/2009 12:33:43
green tram ...is it wind or solar powered or pedal powered...now theres and idea...installing 80 sets of pedals in the tram carriages
17

Sarcasm,

06/05/2009 12:35:58
#10

You would have thought the terrorists would have learnt that's no use in Edinburgh.

The dirty bomb in Leith didn't generate any publicity last month.
18

,

06/05/2009 12:37:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
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19

Kirspin,

Fergus, Ontario twinned with Blairgowie 06/05/2009 12:40:12
Any visitor to Scotland this year, its best to avoid Edinburgh all together, I intend to make sure our friends know this too, shame on the Council and the Tram Project in this year of Recession!
20

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 12:41:20
#Daudi Baldrs,

"The tourists will see the grubby "Edinburgh - open for business" sign, and they'll not laugh."

Worse than that, in all probability (if they have any sense) they just won't come.

In yesterday's EEN, no sponsors for the Fringe Sunday, previously, the Speigel Tent not coming to Waverley Market. This is just the start, Edinburgh's 2009 Festival could quite possibly flop and no prizes for guessing why.

21

LUVMACITY,

iN THE LOBBY 06/05/2009 12:44:41
12* I think you will find that not only was Glasgow's city centre roads dug up but whole communities disappeared as they built a Motorway through the centre. Get off Edinburgh's back. It is still a great city.
22

Bob 2,

06/05/2009 12:46:13
A feasibility study into banning traffic on Princes Street was ordered last month. And it is likely that any pedestrianisation plans would copy the format used for the tram works, with buses and taxis diverted along George Street.


bangs goes the intergrated tranport plan then, bus stops on George Street and the tram stop on Princes Street....

all hail the trams
all hail the trams
all hail the trams
all hail the trams
all hail the trams
all hail the trams
23

Unimpressed one,

06/05/2009 12:46:34
"We are proud to be building a modern, green tram system"

Thought they were to done out in maroon, yellow and white?
24

Edinburgh 100,

Musselburgh 06/05/2009 12:48:00
CEC/TIE are actually attempting to ask people to believe that the Princess Street part will be finished by November. Thats anothe big joke. Tracks arent even near being laid down Leith and they started that work first. TIE/CEC have constantly went back on any comitments in relation to planning, timing and costs so why should we believe this cr@@ from Jenny Dawes and the bunch of numpties in TIE and the cooncil.
25

D Heid ,

06/05/2009 12:48:56
its all just an absolute joke! the whole thing, everywhere is a complete mess.
26

My opinions count for more than yours,

because I'm special 06/05/2009 12:51:43
It's utterly amazing.

All this paper has to do is mention the word "tram" and a bewildering variety of self-important, semi-literate fartboxes crawl out from under their rocks. Even stories that have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with trams seem to work these mollusc-brained mouth-breathers into a pathetic froth.

Honestly!
27

Edinburgh 100,

Musselburgh 06/05/2009 12:53:25
Has any one ever seen the council move so fast.

Some numpty says to a cooncil numpty "wouldnt it be a good idea if traffic was banned from Princess Street ?"

Cooncil Numpty "hey that might be a good idea I will set up a feasability study"

2 weeks later low and behold a feasability study is set up.

utter B@@@@@@S if the council want people to believe that this wasnt well planned in advance and i use the words well and planned realising that it is the only time the cooncil have planned something well
28

Neo,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 12:57:03
The trams were imposed upon the people of Edinburgh without any meanigful consultation.
There are questions that need answers;
1. what happens if the trams need extra money to complete this project and who will pay?
2.when will the tram project be up and running.
3. If there is extra money avilable to build any extensions to the tram line; will there be a consulatation exercise with the people of Edinburgh?
29

,

06/05/2009 12:59:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
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30

Peedie Paws,

06/05/2009 13:00:42
They're now digging up George Street cos all the buses going along the stretch between Charlotte Gardens and Castle Street have caused a big hole to appear in the road. Some of the parking bays have been suspended due to the buses having to use them to bypass the roadworks. The Council are nothing but a joke.
31

Bill MacD,

06/05/2009 13:05:28
Trust the News to create the worst spin on a tram story, to wind up the usual suspects into their insane frothing foment of laughable diatribes. If the decision had been to stop, their spin would have been all about delays and extra costs. This dreadful rag ALWAYS takes the worst angle. Wise up you anti-tram morons... you're being led by the rings through your little piggie noses.

All cities have occasional large scale works which make certain areas less accessible. Last time I was in Berlin you could hardly get through the city centre due to civil engineering works. It's normal. Take a chill pill.
32

Grumpy,

06/05/2009 13:06:48
Watch the firworks from Inverleith Park? Do our city fathers not realise that the attraction of the fireworks is that they are set to music - and that's what the tourist want to see. From Inverleith, even via radio link, there is a time delay between the music and the fireworks.

Tourists please note: You'd be better going to Glasgow - it's obvious Edinburgh prefers to squander cash on trams than to reap the benefits of tourist cash injection.
33

LUVMACITY,

iN THE LOBBY 06/05/2009 13:07:46
Where in Edinburgh is this Princess Street people are raving about???
34

My opinions count for more than yours,

because I once killed a man 06/05/2009 13:08:56
Ferrel youths roam Princess Street.
35

Daudi Baldrs,

Norway 06/05/2009 13:09:37
#31

"insane frothing foment of laughable diatribes"

Very fifth-year essay standard, Bill. Keep it up.
36

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 13:12:07
#28 Neo,

The answer to points 1 & 3 must surely be that the Council Tax payers of Edinburgh will have to foot the bill - God help us all when the CT freeze is ended and the town hall buccaneers get back the 'control' of the city's rates.

Re point 2, your guess is as good as anybodies. I gather that Leith Walk will have to be dug-up again as the contractors have made a cobblers of re-laying the underground services.



37

,

06/05/2009 13:17:29
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38

,

06/05/2009 13:18:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
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39

I love to eat Sellotape,

06/05/2009 13:20:58
You can hide, Mario, but you can't get the runs.
40

,

06/05/2009 13:23:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
41

Statsman,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 13:26:40
This article says the trams could be £200m over budget.

"Total costs for the trams have already risen to £512m and are expected to climb another £200m before the completion date scheduled, optimistically, for 2011."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6210924.ece

Does anyone from TIE want to clarify this and does anyone from the council want to clarify where the money is coming from?
42

,

06/05/2009 13:38:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
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43

Old Cartha Boy,

06/05/2009 13:38:40
Why would terrorists want to damage Edinburgh? TIE and the Council have done their work for them, led by the Mad Mullah Dawe.

44

totally indecent,

06/05/2009 13:39:38
You're not allowed to say darkie anymore.
45

I love to eat Sellotape,

06/05/2009 13:41:45
You can say "comment removed," though.
46

The Hon. Liam Fairtod,

06/05/2009 13:44:43
Would they work faster if pizza head boyle promised to perform for them as a reward for finishing early?
47

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 13:58:47
#37 Big Darkie butterfingers,

"Peter, shutup."

Too near the truth for you me buckoo?

48

,

06/05/2009 14:03:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
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49

,

06/05/2009 14:03:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
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50

PaulB,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 14:04:11
It's a shame most of the anti-trammers posting on here cannot string a sentence together in a gramatically correct way. Work on the scheme seems to be picking up apace - always plenty of activity. The trams are coming!!
51

Skip McClendon,

06/05/2009 14:04:46
City leader Jenny Dawe said: "We are proud to be building a modern, green tram system to promote Edinburgh's continued economic prosperity and the quality of life Edinburgh offers."

- Jeez...at least Nero fiddling while Rome burned was midly entertaining. But Jenny's press office just keeps churning out the same old mince.
52

PaulB,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 14:07:16
#36 Peter v disappointed etc - what evidence do you have that Leith Walk will be dug up again due to poor workmanship? Or are you just making this up as another scare story? I'm sure if it is true the News would be delighted to speak to you about it. Of course, the walk will be dug up again - but to lay the tram lines.Please do pass on your inside information to the rest of us.
53

,

06/05/2009 14:16:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
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54

PaulB,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 14:18:05
#51Skip - you are the Mince King of Edinburgh with your comments on here mate!
55

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 14:19:15
#52 PaulB

As far as I am aware this was reported in the News roughly at the end of last year/early this, sorry I don't have the date of publication to hand. There was also a report of leaking water mains in Leith which may (or may not) be attributable to tram works.

I have also been told this by several people who either have or still are working on this project (one is a fairly prominent transport engineeer whom I won't name for obvious reasons).

This problem plus the concrete ramps under the Mound and at the West End are additional hazards which have also been referred to here by other posters.

56

Skip McClendon,

06/05/2009 14:19:55
#52

Well, to be fair, they will hardly need to dig it up AGAIN....since they haven't yet finished digging it up the first time.
57

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 14:20:26
#52 - How about the bit outside Tesco at Brunswick Road, where water can be seen percolating through the road surface. Again. That normally indicates something is amiss with the utilities below. When they go in to fix it, I'd make that the fourth time they've howked it up. What more evidence of incompetence do you need?
58

I love to eat Sellotape,

06/05/2009 14:22:12
I am also anxious beyond tablets, although I don't like to bang on about it.
59

I love to eat Sellotape,

06/05/2009 14:25:24
On another matter entirely, I have just fashioned a miniature replica of a tram out of my daughter's earwax (she has a problem).
60

Skip McClendon,

06/05/2009 14:28:55
#59

You should sell it to City of Edinburgh Council for £500M+
61

,

06/05/2009 14:34:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
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62

Skip McClendon,

06/05/2009 15:33:47
#62

What's weak kids' Shandy got to do with it?
63

Bigwull,

edinburgh 06/05/2009 15:38:08
Scrap the festival altogether, let the people of Edinburgh Live
64

,

06/05/2009 15:42:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
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65

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 15:43:12
#s 28&41 - Answering a series of Parliamentary Questions from Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie -Lab) on March 19 2009, Stewart Stevenson, Minister for Transport replied that the amount invoiced by the City of Edinburgh Council to Transport Scotland as of that date was £236 million. And not an inch of rail laid. Could this be the West of Scotland Numptocrats finally waking up? Does anyone know if the Council are contributing their own funding in proportion, or if Jenny and TIE are just 'hoping something will turn up' when Transport Scotland's meter stops dead at the £Half Billion. I couldn't care less if #31 calls that an 'insane frothing foment of laughable diatribes'.


66

Andrew,

06/05/2009 15:46:31
33) AGREED!
It's because folk wrongly pronounce it as PRINCESS rather than PRINSIEZE (Princes') that it gets continually "MISS-PELT"!
67

Incandescent,

06/05/2009 16:06:47
#62 G-tone

"top deck"? Do you intend to sit on the roof?

In any case, I expect you will expire during a particularly exciting episode of Road Wars long before this fiasco is over.
68

Incandescent,

06/05/2009 16:49:15
#69 G-Tone

Nothin stupid about it. You will have a job finding a seat on the non-existent top-deck of a single decker carriage. That's why I was wondering if you intended sitting on the roof. You have insulted me and I await your apology.
69

Incandescent,

06/05/2009 17:14:16
#71 G-Tone

"Stupid comment" implies the commenter is stupid. I'm still waiting.

"tram network"? It's a line.
70

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 06/05/2009 17:47:06
What are you all talking about. This is assuming that they get to the stage of actually laying tram lines by the time of the Festival.

What we are liable to get is the stupidity that laying of tram lines will start about two weeks before the Festival
71

Incandescent,

06/05/2009 17:57:11
#81 G-Tone "There are a lot of fools on here..."

Yet more abuse Tony? Dear oh dear.

"...double deck trams are arriving soon!!"

Just how high do you imagine the overhead wires will be? At no stage have double-deckers been mentioned by TIE.
72

Incandescent,

06/05/2009 17:58:17
#82 G-Tone "Any person who voted for them is a clown and an idiot."

Yet more abuse. Hypocrite.
73

Incandescent,

06/05/2009 18:36:01
#89 G-Tone - "I have heard it from the horses mouth!!"

Double-decker trams? Talking horses? Whatever next?
74

Euan,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 18:54:38
Those in charge of this project can bleat on and on all they like about how they're speeding things up with the works on Princes St, but they can't hide from cold, hard facts.

One of those facts is that the entire tram project is on it's knees financially and clearly running up to 8 months behind schedule in certain areas.

Let's also not forget the 'around 100' issues that Bilfinger Berger still need to resolve with TIE. Any resolution here will surely involve many millions of pounds - money which is simply not available from anywhere.

And how about this for a howler from Jenny Dawe - "We are proud to be building a modern, green tram system to promote Edinburgh's continued economic prosperity and the quality of life Edinburgh offers."

'Green' my @rse.

My God, the blinkered and untrue statements this woman is continually coming with are staggering, absolutely staggering.

Anyway, not long to go until all the money has run out..









75

tomias,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 19:26:54
market forces
76

snoopy,

Musselburgh 06/05/2009 20:40:05
What's the betting that this mess will not be finished by Hogmanay?
77

Ian down under,

Musselburgh 06/05/2009 21:31:13
Stop moaning and let them get the job finished. The festival can still go ahead and if they want parades then there are plenty of streets to use.
78

Julian.,

edinburgh 06/05/2009 22:30:43
Judge,

You're about 1 year out with your figures there. although you're spot on with the usual anti-tram tactics, ie. give out false information to make your position look stronger.

Rs,

As people keep forgetting, Lothian Buses is owned by the council. Unless I'm mistaken that gives the council the power to appoint it's chief executive and directors. So if the council do their job properly they should be intervening in any way they can to limit any fare increases. If you or any others don't like what's happening with bus/tram fares lobby your local councillor, start a protest and vote them out if they don't comply.

Blimey, I've said it about 50 times, the main objectives of public transport do not involve trying to make a profit. Anti-tram people seem to be incapable of understanding this concept unfortunately.
79

Julian.,

edinburgh 06/05/2009 22:35:58
Euan,

Could you name me a greener form of public transport that we could have had as an alternative to trams...apart from horse-drawn trolley buses.
80

Big bob 79,

06/05/2009 22:42:02
#146
Where have you been since 1986???......
LRC was sold off and became LRT Lothian it was no-longer a council operation and since then has had to make profit and pass on a share of its massive profits to its major share holders, where the hell have you been?....
You talk absolute drivel
as for £1.25 per journey yeh sure we will see
81

Big bob 79,

06/05/2009 22:44:00
The council have no conrtol over the running of Lothian buses

As they have found out when they started to cut routes and banned prams from the buses, surly you recall that little slap in the face?
82

Big bob 79,

06/05/2009 22:44:59
#147

Walk
83

Big bob 79,

06/05/2009 22:45:19
#147

Cycle
84

Big bob 79,

06/05/2009 22:45:33
#147

Skip?
85

snoopy,

Musselburgh 06/05/2009 22:48:29
Big Bob - from Lothian Buses website:

"The Lothian Buses name has been used since January 2000. The company remains publicly owned - the major shareholder being The City Of Edinburgh Council."

So Julian is actually more or less right as the major shareholder is the Council.
86

Euan,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 23:04:55
Gorgie_Tony

Considering that you're a diehard bus user, why the subject of the trams intrigues you so much is a mystery.

If and when a tram screeches out of it's depot at Gogar on it's one-off, ill-fated journey, you'll be well and truly pushing up the daisies.

#147 Julian

How about hydrogen-powered buses?

Much 'greener' than a tram which will run on electrical energy created by coal-fired power stations I would say..


87

Julian.,

edinburgh 06/05/2009 23:08:44
Snoopy,

Thanks for that.

Big Bob 79,

It's usually not a good idea to accuse people of talking absolute drivel without checking your facts. Lothian Buses, as it is now called, is 90% owned by Edinburgh, East West and Mid Lothian councils. I'm not sure on who has what share but Edinburgh is by far the biggest shareholder.

Therefore that gives the 4 councils a massive influence over this company.
88

Julian.,

edinburgh 06/05/2009 23:15:35
Euan,

Hi mate.

Hydrogen powered buses? Sounds great. But where exactly do they exist in operation today? If such things have been invented lets have hydrogen powered trams:-)

As for trams running on coal energy, check your facts please. Trams will run on 30% coal, 30% gas (much cleaner than coal), 25% nuclear and 10% renewables.

And as you know fine well, they will be much greener as well because they are not polluting our people-congested streets of this city.

Another thing you might like to know is that renewables will constitute 20% of elctricity generation by 2020 and 50% by 2050, with coal diminishing to around 10 to 15%.
89

snoopy,

Musselburgh 06/05/2009 23:15:57
Julian - you're welcome.

Big Bob, if you're looking for proof, it took me 10 seconds to find the information on LB website that the Council is the majority shareholder. You can find it at:

http://www.lothianbuses.com/company.php

As Julian says, it's generally not a good idea to accuse people of talking drivel without checking your facts first. Read the above link and you will see he is not talking drivel about who owns/influences the company.

Obviously if the Council have the biggest share in the company, they are going to have the biggest say in how the company is run.
90

Euan,

Edinburgh 06/05/2009 23:44:27
#156

Hi Julian.

From the information I have gathered, the Scottish Government looks to be very much against nuclear power and fully committed to coal for it's future energy rquirements, and that means a very large percentage of the electricity for the trams being provided by this fossil fuel.

The reason? - they are (in my opinion, foolishly) placing their bets on as yet un-invented 'carbon capture' technology.

The renewables percentage you mention is probably fairly accurate, but not for base load supply. Nuclear and coal are the only capable and reliable sources of such large and consistent power generation; and that is where the trams would draw their power from.

The trams aren't 'green' as Jenny Dawe would like to think. She uses this angle to try and hoodwink people into thinking the trams are worthwhile for Edinburgh and will help 'save the planet'.

Like hundreds of millions of people around the world, she had been fooled by the mass propaganda of the so called 'man-made global warming' thing, and as a result is using this as a political tool to try and help gain support and consequently force the tram line onto Edinburgh's streets.

I for one hope she, and all the others behind this tram scheme, fail in their disgraceful support of this money-gulping and ultimately useless transport project.



91

Julian.,

edinburgh 06/05/2009 23:45:15
Snoopy,

You sound far too forthcoming with the facts to be anti-tram. Am I right?

Do you agree with me that all these doomongers going on about £4 tram fares completely miss the point of public services. Setting a price to meet wider public interest objectives is what sets Lothian Buses apart from say Stagecoach. The buses, or indeed the trams are not there to make a profit. They're there for things like easing congestion and pollution and, making it easier for people who can't afford a car to be mobile.

You want my opinion? Make buse and tram fares 10p and prop them up with public subsidy. Reward the employees on how much surplus the company makes taking into account a previously agreed public subsidy.
92

Julian.,

edinburgh 06/05/2009 23:54:30
Euan,

Sorry but it's my understanding that energy generation is a matter for the UK govenment. They have the final say and are committed to a phased ramping up of renewables to constitute 50% by 2050. In Scotland this will be even higher as we are more suited to this type of energy generation.

In addition, now that Obama has been elected the US is, along with the UK, fully committed to the upcoming Kyoto 2 treaty which will force nations to cut greenhouse gases by 80% by 2050. The SNP, if they are still in power in 2 years, cannot and will not resist this. If carbon capture is feasible then this may be a possibility.

But at the end of the day, trams will in a few years be powered by electricity which involves a low amount of greenhouse gas emmissions.

Now, about those hydrogen buses???
93

snoopy,

Musselburgh 07/05/2009 00:23:55
Julian - oh no I am anti-tram! The main reason being is that I think that the tram LINE is going to cost way too much. Imagine how many hospitals etc could be built for the same money?

Personally I think they'd be better doing away with the tram LINE and instead giving the money to LB to invest in better buses.

Also the trams would be of no use to me as they are not coming out to Musselburgh or anywhere even near Musselburgh, and they certainly do not go anywhere near my work!
94

Julian.,

edinburgh 07/05/2009 02:17:58
Snoopy,

Sorry, you tricked me. I haven't seen any exagerrations or misinformation in your comments usually associated with the anti-trammers.

The hospital argument is a bit of a red herring. It's a bit like telling someone that if they spent less time working to pay for that new car and more time exercising they would live a bit longer. It could also be used as a comparison for any number of spending decisions, eg. Olympic games

It's not really a black and white issue as the usual suspects would have you believe. Trams will be less polluting, faster and smoother than buses and will attract thousands of car drivers out their vehicles. And once the mess is cleared up they will raise the international image/status of our capital city. Whether that's worth half a billion is a close call. But in my opinion to scrap it now and waste £300m would be madness. An extra £200m to make them underground in the city centre would have been a much better idea.

As for Musselburgh, give it time...next stop South Edinburgh and line 3. Did you get that Euan;-)
95

Euan,

Edinburgh 07/05/2009 07:27:04
#163 Tony

Why does there have to be a web link to everything Tony? Do you believe every bit of information on Wikipedia to be true?!

Tony, the way this project is headed and with the current financial state of Lothian Buses (reporting a loss for 2008), can you tell me, where exactly do you think the operating costs for the trams will come from?

As I've just said, it is looking increasingly unlikely that Lothian Buses is going to be able to prop the trams up to the amount previously expected. The council are staring into a financial black hole for the foreseeable future and there won't be 'a penny more' from the Government. It would also appear to be a VERY unlikely scenario indeed for a private investor to get themselves entangled in the trams mess now or even in several years time.

So, there lies my case for the almost certain £3 - £4 tram fares.

If you can see it any other way Tony, I'd be glad to hear it.

As for Hydrogen buses?

http://mediacentre.canada.travel/content/travel_story_ideas/hydrogen-fuel-cell-buses-hit-2010-winter-games
96

Foo,

07/05/2009 08:56:52
The main reason I'm for the trams is for the hope GT will end up under one.
97

Daudi Baldrs,

Norway 07/05/2009 10:12:57
#165

Good to see some humour on this thread.
98

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 07/05/2009 10:30:16
#83 Gorgie_Tony,Edinburgh,

"you can blame the SNP for this fiasco - remember they PROMISED to scrap the tram project if they got elected - and guess what - they buckled at the first hurdle. SNP = WASTE OF TIME!!"

Tony, I'm sure many of us have tried to explain this to you before, but with respect, here goes once again.

The SNP in Holyrood could NOT scrap the trams as they do not have the necessary overall majority in the Scottish Parliamant to pass this kind of 'order'.

The blame in Holyrood for this fiasco lies with Labour, Lib Dems, Tories and the Green parties who voted jointly against the SNP when this business was raised.

Why did all these parties vote against cancellation? Because they could not accept the fact that the SNP held the largest number of seats of any party at Holyrood (following May 2007 elections)and were determined to give the SNP as hard a time as possible.

In Edinburgh, the blame must fall on the late (but not lamented) Labour controlled Council led by Ewan Aitken. Ewan and his 'crew' were democratic enough to hold local referenda on congestion charging and the 'privitisation' of Council housing, both of these votes they lost. Sadly Labour could not stand the thought of a third defeat and no opportunity was given to the citizens of Edinburgh to vote on the question of trams. This surely indicates that Ewan & Co were well aware in advance what the outcome would be and that speaks volumes.

I hope that the trams are cancelled, but the citizens of Edinburgh are in for a very rough time financially whatever happens over the next few decades.
99

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 07/05/2009 10:41:06
#81 Gorgie_Tony,Edinburgh

"I have it from the horses mouth that double deck trams are arriving soon!! Roll on the trams!!! Top deck is best!!"

Tony, I'm not specifically gunning for you, but I must respond to this comment also.

Obviously, like you, I remember the great fun and pleasure to be had when sitting on the top deck of the old trams. However, I think I am right in saying that the new system is to be powered via overhead cables (as with the old trams). The new trams are all single deckers which means that the overhead cables will be set to a fairly low height (the power pick-ups on the 'dummy' outside Jenners looks very low, short and slung back) and I presume that the height of these cables cannot be altered to cope with double decker vehicles? I assume therefore that there won't be an upper deck on any of the new trams - please correct me if I am wrong.

100

Derts n telly ya basta,

Church 07/05/2009 10:44:07
Peter

Aitken is a holy man, possibly even a Jedi. So stop insulting him. He knows more about how to run a transport line than heathens like you.
101

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 07/05/2009 10:55:37
#169 Derts n telly ya basta,

I take it your a Labour supporter then? I used to be, but certainly won't be giving them my support again.

"He knows more about how to run a transport line than heathens like you."

I very much question whether or not he could run anything (outside of a church of course).


102

Mallory,

Edinburgh 07/05/2009 11:03:26
All part of the Homecoming Celebrations - come home and see Edinburgh still in a shambles..
103

Derts n telly ya basta,

Church 07/05/2009 11:11:42
#170

Labour are full of good Christians. They're a bit cloudy on the "shalt not kill" commandment what with the illegal war in Iraq, but they're a good bunch, and Britain is in a great position right now.
104

Derts n telly ya basta,

Church 07/05/2009 11:14:08
#172

So people who left a cold raining city of nippy faced Calvinist types and trams to go abroad, return to a cold raining city of nippy faced Calvinist types and trams to go abroad again?

More of a re-emigration than a homecoming.

 

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