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No real surprise.Pupil numbers are falling therefore the amount of funding is falling. If you are forced to keep the number of schools/teachers then something else has to go.If they are overspending by almost £10m per year (last year and projection for this year) then the cut backs will be severe.
For once I’m glad of the SNP, they have stated Council Tax can’t rise therefore I’m not going to pay for this. The reason for the mess is the declining school rolls, and now I for one was right behind school closures.
The council are a nightmare, lose the road tolls increase parking wardens to generate the extra cash, lose the right to close schools, then slash the budget to generate the extra cash.
C'mon, save us all the bull and stop going on "work releated holidays" to twin us with a town that nobody has heard off, stop taking taxi trips 200 yards and start using our money correctly!!!!!
now I am not syaing that this would raise all the cash but its a start instead of hitting the voters that put them in power where it hurst( in the pocket and the lives of thier children)
Go to the Edinburgh Council web site www.edinburgh.gov.uk type in accounts go to un-audited accounts for 2007-2008. Scroll down this document until you find the PPP projects, and you will find that the council has committed to building 12 new primary schools at an ongoing cost of £30 million per year. The total cost to the council by the year 2039 is to be £1.1 billion. Yes it is not a typing error it is billion as in thousands of millions of pounds. Private companies have been given a licence to print money. When the council say they are short of money, this is where it is all going. Worse than that, the council now need to close the existing schools (which sit on valuable land) so it can move pupils to the new privately built schools. The new schools will be built as cheaply as the private sector can get away with. You cannot blame the private sector they are there to make money, and business is business. I do however expect public representatives to be more careful with tax payers money.
...G, I take it your kids were not affected by a school closure!!!!
why hit 2 of the most underprivileged High Schools in Edinburgh, did not see the closure of any High Schools from more affluent areas of Edinburgh on that list.this is money making excuse for the council gone wrong. Labour may not have been the best but at least they never came out with rubbish like this council seems to sprout on a daily basis
It mentions the 9 million saved, but how much would the council have raked in when they sold the sites to developers. The broon envelopes have to go back to the developers now lol.
The parents may have won the School closure battle, but who will win the war.
Cut away the FAT, theres still alot of FAT that can be cut.
Cut the class sizes, think of the kids, find the money....cut the social budgets at the council, make them walk and get the bus and ban taxis. There's half the money already.
jolly jambo,
You'll find that it was labour that started the plan for school closures and created and allowed the OVERSPEND of budgets to happen.
how many MILLIONS did labour waste on The Road Tolls and other cancelled PROJECTS
WOULD HAVE PAID FOR MANY NEW SCHOOLS IN EDINBURGH
#4,
I don't have kids yet more than 40% of my council tax every year goes into the Education dapartment.
I'm not saying we shouldn't fund education but keeping schools open when there are too many spaces for the number of kids is a huge waste of everyone's money.
Mad book keeping.
Perhaps the people of Edinburgh should be consulted on how they would place their priorities.
Do they want education and nursery facilities, nursing care and sports facilities - or do they want a tram line to enable a private developer to make a mint selling poor quality dormitory flats at Granton?
Cutting schools expenditure at all is pretty low. I'm sure the council could find other ways to save finances by looking at their selling off a few of their OWN assets. Do we need the paraphernalia of chains of office in the 21st century for instance? They could be flogged along with the old-fashioned robes.
There is no need to rob peter to pay paul in todays society. Education and health are the biggest things in peoples lives and should be funded through the needs of society and the individuals who play a part in society regardless of cost. We are a rich nation and can always find the money to go to war or to fund the royal family. there was a guy on newsnight last night from the SNP being grilled about the Edinburgh schools etc. I felt sorry for him because he genuinely wanted the best for our children but his hands were tied by a system that has a totally unequal distribution of wealth. the policies of the SNP cannot challenge that system so him and all the rest of the reformist councillors who try to fine tune the system and balance one service against another cannot suceed unless they have a fundemental change in their outlook and programme and take on Brown and his cuts policy.
#1 ' the SNP state that council tax can't rise'???? Wouldn't bet on it. Alex Salmond and his cronies say a lot of stuff that doesn't exactly turn out in the long run.... And remember they are prone to changing their minds
Andrew Burns says there has to be a better way of making savings than cutting services. There was. It was the school closures programme.
I don't see why anyone is in the slightest bit surprised by this. If you suddenly punch a £9 million hole in the budget, the money has to be found somehow. It can't come from council tax rises - even if the executive doesn't choose to freeze council tax, it will be totally infeasible to put it up enough to cover this shortfall. It can't come from the council's reserves, because the council doesn't have any after Labour's mismanagement of the city's finances. One way or another, by forcing the council to put off the tough decisions on which schools to close, the SNP have forced massive cuts in services.
people in the UK are soft and spoiled. Everyone wants a school and a post office right outside their front door practically and get indignant if they cant have it. Public spending is out of control and you all are just going to have to get used to not being so pampered.
#13. Laura H. What has Alex Salmond and his 'cronies' said in government that hasn't turned out in the long run?
Re 14.
Kick the tram jamboree into the long grass until the schools, nursing care, senior citizen care, sports facilities, roads, bin collections etc are up to scratch.
The money being wasted on this tram is astounding - and if it is not stopped now there will be articles on the latest cuts required to actually useful services for years.
No.14 - sorry, lets stick to facts ... have a go at Labour by all means;
- but the fact is that the reserves were in a healthier condition as at March 2007 (just before the election) than they were back in March 2006.
This Council is NOT in the red, has a £1billion annual revenue and capital budget and well over £2billion in fixed assets ... a little bit of political will (and nouse!) is all that's required to sort this current mess out.
The Micawber Principle, based on hopeful expectation. "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."
Councillor Marilyne MacLaren - "There is a need for the department to plug the budgetary hole created by the withdrawal of the proposals. This means that we cannot guarantee that budgets will not be reduced further."
Oh for goodness sake, talk about throwing the dummy out of the pram!
They are not getting their own way so now they are in a big huff and they want to hit back by cutting individual school budgets which simply makes the kids suffer more.
Wasn't this the very woman who tried to 'sell' us the school closures by insisting that our children's education was what was important? Yet here she is now trying to make their lives more difficult but cutting budgets that provide basic books and equipment.
Makes me SO mad!
You are being ripped off. The Council in Edinburgh are building 12 new privately financed primary schools at an ongoing cost of £30 million per year for the next 30 years. They have signed contracts with the private sector and part of that will involve closing existing schools to pay for their folly. For more detail read #3.
#17 colin g - there you are again accepting second best and robbing peter ( a tram system) to pay paul ie education- putting all you prejudice against trams aside for a moment and taking into consideration that we are a rich nation can you give me one reason why we cannot have both?
Re 22.
Scarce resources. The Council have only a certain amount of money they can spend on certain activities. There must be a priority for education and other important services rather than a tram line to increase congestion and line the developers pockets?
No.21
You're presenting a truly biased picture. I'm not in favour of PPP, but the truth is:
- cost to Council £1.1billion over 30-years- for around 30 educational establishments- no other maintenance costs for 30 years- no energy costs for 30 years- no cleaning costs for 30 years- no janitorial costs for 30 years- at the end of the 30 year period all the schools come back with a further 5-year maintenance free guarantee (so it's really 35-year sof costs being covered)- AND at the end of the 30 year period the Council has around £200million of fixed assets in the form of schools which go back on the Council balance sheet
Now, I'm not claiming it's perfect, but neither is it the financial millstone that you are mis-representing ...
what we have in local government is an increasing pressure on the resources available, continually the scottish executive past and present will continue to expect local authorities to carry out their legal obligations without extra funding, the dilemma that faces local government is, do they go for budget cuts and feel the wrath of the electorate or increase the council tax and still feel the wrath of the electorate, the only sensible way forward is a complete top to bottom review but also to put party politics to one side and to focus on frontline services which affect our daily lives.
... Councillor MacLaren said "Unfortunately for a number of years, previous administrations have reduced the revenue budgets for schools to make up budgetary shortfalls".
That's a LIE - it's just not true. Revenue budgets for schools have risen every year since the new Council was formed in 1995/96.
I'm sorry, Cllr. MacLaren is simply not telling the truth and should be thoroughly ashamed of her tactics.
#26 MacLaren has never been one to let facts get in the way of what she wants to do, and has never been shy of u-turns in policy when they suit her election purposes. What a shower we are saddled with in the City Chambers. Poor Edinburgh.
#18 Serious Comment
What fixed assests - the half empty schools they have just tried to rationalise?
Why did Labour close Ainslie Park ?
Why did the Labour Evening News not kick up a storm?
Where were all the concerned parents?
#26 Jim - you are the one who is lying.
#27 Duncan
That is really pathetic of you - your Labour party membership card must be inscribed on your keyboard.
It is easy to type in smears isnt?Do you feel proud?
Why did Labour close Ainslie Park school?
Hammer education and thereby our kids but spend £450M on a white elephant tram system.
What planet are these imbeciles on?
#24
As you say £200 million of fixed asset are returned for a council investment of £1.1 billion over 30 years. So we are paying the private sector £900 million for lighting and maintenance over 30 years!! Thats £30 million per year. We are being ripped off.
Further if you want to do any works/ alterations in a ppp school it has to be done by their nominated contractor at their rates - not competitive rates.
22 Sedov - please remind us of the benefits in trams?
We already have buses which I assume we will continue to have post trams and the trams therefore are merely going to add to traffic congestion by taking away even more of the road space for the trams. To add to that, these trams will it seems only serve one or two routes at most and therefiore be of little benefit to many of the citizens of Edinburgh.
Edinburgh does NOT have the space for tram lines and the money quoted £450M (which will no doubt increase a la the Parliament Building)
ooops lost teh end o that post ....
the money quoted £450m is obscene for something offering so little benefit in the eyes of most.
#23 Colin G Exactly what I thought you would say and within the confines of the capitalist system you are correct and if you want to continue accepting the status quo then things will never change and you will forever be compromised by choices of one against the other, one community against the other, one class aginst the other, one set of workers against another, shools versus health etc. This is how capitalism works = divide and rule and although you have the right to protest you are stuck with the system and you also are a victim of it like myself. The difference is that I recognise that only a fundemental change in society which does not spend our money on futile wars and outdated monarchy and accepts massive differences in the distribution of wealth can we change things and have a truly equal society.
#29 I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Labour Party. And as for accusations of "smears" - Marilyne Maclaren supported the Lib Dem policy of congestion charging nationally, and then opposed it when it was proposed in Edinburgh. Ms Maclaren also supported the introduction of the parking zone extension across Edinburgh, and then opposed its implementation in her ward. These are facts, not a smear.
#32 Jim W I am totally blase about trams and you have missed the point I was making . It should never be one set of priorities for example health versus education versus housing against another -if there is a proven need then lets have it and incidentally on balance I think there is a proven need for alternative transport such as trams but I stand to be corrected, not on cost but on practicality, need and environment etc.
Come on - what do you want Edinburgh city to be, full of executive ghettos or full of active communities that these days revolve around their local schools (whether you like that reality or not)? I know the Edinburgh I prefer and is the reason I live here and therefore contribute my earnings and my energies to this amazing city.The FACT is that the proposals that were presented were poorly considered and should NEVER have been voted through by the council without due dilligence being applied. The statistics and justifications in the report do not bear scrutiny. This was simply bad policy and bad decision making right from the start, that's why there was such a furious backlash. They need to go back to the drawing board and come up with a rational and pre-consulted set of options - IF they really do indeed have to close some schools, which I remain sceptical about, since you wouldn't be able to meet the SNP's slated smaller class sizes if they did...Yes, my child attends one of the schools slated for closure. No, it is not a failing school, it is an incredibly successful (HMI ratings) and popular school with a rising roll (>80%) and is always oversubcribed on intake. Yes the report was utterly wrong about it too.The council should not be closing successful schools, they should be replicating what makes them successful.My priority for my taxes is basic services. Health and education get my money ahead of crazy schemes like the failed traffic control and now a tram that I wouldn't use, because I walk, cycle and occasionally take the bus!!!
#35 Duncan#37 FamilyMan
Why did Labour close Ainslie Park?
#35 Duncan
You are basically a lie monger.
If you are not a member of the Labour party you should consider joining.
Marlynne MacLaren did not oppose the introduction of parking zones in her ward.
In fact she consulted local residents - and still is - over the extension of the parking zones and presented their views to the council.
She believes in consultation - I know I live in her ward.
This is about schools and school closures.
Can anyone answer this question.Why did Labour close Ainslie Park?
You GREAT BIG LIAR.
FYI and anyone reading your LIES.
National LibDem policy was that councils should have the right to introduce congestion charging - not that they should actually be forced to introduce congestion charging.
Edinburgh LibDem policy was to oppose congestion charging - specifically because there was insufficient provision of public transport.
Maybe that is a bit too complex for you to understand.The LibDems are not like the SNP - where the national party just tells all the local parties what to do. That is a bit Stalinist.
Bets of luck with your next set of LIES.
Meanwhile can you answer this question.Why did Labour close Ainslie Park?
#39 In every story in the EEN where Maclaren is quoted about the parking zone changes, she condemns the council's actions. This despite the fact that she voted for them to happen. See this story as an example, but there are many more:
http://news.scotsman.com/edinburgh.cfm?id=1590562006
She is a typical Lib Dem - a fairweather friend ready to follow any prevailing wind if it should work in her favour to do so.
I have no idea why Labour closed Ainslie Park.
Did Marlynne MacLaren consult peole in her ward over school closures? Oh sorry I forgot there where no school closures proposed for MacLarens ward!
Was Marlynne concerned about the effect of closures on her own children? Oh sorry I gorgot her children are privately educated?
I wonder if a property developer helps her with those private school fees?
#38 I have no involvement with any political party. You tell me why they closed Ainslie Park!
#40 How convenient for the Lib Dems in Edinburgh that they considered that there was "insufficient provision of public transport". Ignoring the fact the the WHOLE POINT of the congestion charging scheme was to allow funds to be INVESTED IN PUBLIC TRANSPORT, how is it that despite their national policy in favour of road charging, in EVERY SINGLE local are where this policy has been tested, it has been IGNORED by the local party? What is the point of having a national policy on something if it is simply tossed aside when it might cause an electoral disadvantage?
How anyone can defend the Lib Dems is beyond me. They aren't fit to run a corner shop, never mind a council.
#41 Duncan
You really are pathetic - you have an axe to grind - You say she condemned every action taken by the council - yet in the article you link to she says
>>>>
Councillor Ricky Henderson, the city's transport leader, said today: "I'd like to reassure residents that we are working hard to ease parking pressures around S1. We have already gathered many views, and would encourage more residents to let us know their thoughts.
"We are currently responding to residents' concerns, as well as assessing feedback from residents' questionnaires, e-mails and letters, and evaluating on-street surveys from before and after S1 began operating."
Local Lib Dem councillor Marilyne MacLaren today welcomed the move and said it should have happened sooner.
<<<<
Duncan - "welcomed" means approved in this context.
What are you so bitter an twisted?
I actually feel quite sorry for you.
Anyone else explain this.
Why did Labour close Ainslie Pack school?
#45 If you have been following Maclaren's "career" then you will know that I am right. She is an opportunist and a turncoat, in much the same mould as Cardownie. To think that these people now wield executive power in our city makes me weep.
#46 Duncan
You are shown to be manifestly wrong by your own pathetic little link - and rather than make an apology you just publish another general smear.
You are very sad.
If you are not in Labour? Are you a Tory?Are you in a political party?Why not stand yourself - you are a liar that must help - doesnt it.
Again and every time after everyone of your moronic smears.I will return to a pertinent question(Perhaps no Labour supporters read this web site).
Bit harsh in #46, Duncan - to accuse a FibDem of being an 'opportunist and a turncoat' is like criticising a dog for barking. Their natural position is sitting on the fence in the middle of the road, being all things to all people.
#48 Thomas
Shouldnt your third T be a W?
And BTW why did Labour close Ainslie Park school?
#40 Doh
Here's an older example for you of Mclaren's hypocrisy.
The Lib Dems supported the concept of introducing Greenways for the City, but lo and behold, when it came to the one going through Morningside, where the Lib Dems had electoral hopes, she voted to oppose it.
And she sat on the fence so often, trying to be inbetween Labour and Tory, that she voted on the Police Board to have more police, but refused to vote for the money for uniforms and equipment - cue jibes about lots of naked cops on her beat.
#46
if the Lib Dems had put any one else but her up against Griffiths in the last Westminster election, Griffiths would have lost.
Doh
Why don't you just tell us why Labour closed Ainslie Park then? You're obviously trying to make a point so just make it. It's becoming tedious....
I was at Broughton High before the merger and the ongoing rivalry with Ainslie Park meant that the police were regularily called out at home time. I used to be terrified walking home through Inverleith Park with gangs of kids knocking hell out each other. The merger was terrible for the kids and the ill feeling in the school palpable. I wouldn't want to put my kids through that.
#50 Kobi
I very much doubt what you say is true.Sounds like another couple of smears.
Are the SNP in between Labour and the Tory?Is that your one dimensional view of politics?
I think your K should probably be a J.
BTW why did Labour close Ainslie Park school ?
Doh,
Why don't you calm down and stop being offensive and tedious?
You can be quite interesting when you're not being obnoxious, and I WOULD like to hear why you think Labour shut down Ainslie Park.
#52 PG
That sounds terrible.I cant understand why Labour would do that to those poor kids.I presume it wsnt to create aggro in the merged school.
Does anyone else know why Labour closed Ainslie Park school?
#52
I seem to remember that one of the possibilities was the merger of Ainslie Park with Craigroyston, but the parents concerned (a) didn't want their kids to go to Craigroyston, cos it was a poorer school etc etc; (b) there would be a better social mix if their kids went to Broughton, and (c) they feared that there would more aggro between the kids if they went to Craigroyston.
Again from memory, there was masses of empty space at all three schools at the time, the educational results from especially Craigroyston and Ainslie Park were dreadful, there was little in the way of kids staying on for 5th or 6th years, and there were already placing requests away from these catchment areas.
I seem to recall that the better option would probably have been closing Craigroyston and merging both on the Ainslie Park site, but Craigroyston I think had more political weight behind it to stay open.
#54 HBOS
I dont know why - I can speculate - my challenge was for a Labour supporter, councillor or whatever to explain why they closed Ainslie Park school.
I think the question is pertinent to the debate - that is why I keep repeating it - it is the supporters of the other parties that are throwing mud. So sorry for repeating the question - but it deserves an answer.
Why did Labour close Ainslie Park school ?
3
Spot on. The unfortunate thing is that once contracts have been signed there is no way out of them that would not cost more than the cost of the contract.
But surely all councils, even the Labour run ones, must learn the lesson that PFI/PPP projects are too expensive.
#53 I can assure you that they are both true. Some of us have been observing council politics for years, and have long memories.
Go to the Council archives, and look back in the records if you don't believe me.
Drop the blinkers from your eyes.
BTW, if you think that McLaren is SNP, as your post seems to imply, then bang goes any credibility you might have had.
#58
How many schools would have been built in Edinburgh since 1997, without the use of PFI? Perhaps one.
So Doh is a Lib Dem.
Funny, I had Duncan down as a Lib Dem too.
But you boys aren't singing from the same hymn sheet on this one.
60
Considering that PFI/PPP has been almost the only finance method available for capital projects you are probably right.
That is why we will be paying credit card levels of interest on these PFI deals for decades to come.
#61 Indeed I am not, Miss H! - but I must point out that slagging off other Lib Dems doesn't necessarily exclude a person from being one. Indeed, some might consider it a good indicator. :-)
#59 Kobi
Cllr MacLaren has been my local councillor for abour 20 years,I am fully aware that she is not a member of the SNP and I dont think I have implied that in any of my posts.I have certainly observed the mismangement of the City Council by Labour since 1984.
Can you tell me how to access the Council archives - of what minutes ? Do you work for the Council ? How do I do that.
I dropped the blinkers some time ago - I think you will find that I dont waste my time or breath making smears - I want to understand the issues - and appreciate that all the parties are composed of people - and people are complex.
#61 Miss HYou are very observant - Livilion had already smoked me out and wished me drummed out the boy scouts.BTW Duncan says he is not in the Labour party.I suspect you are in the SNP?Supporter or paid employee?What is your motivation?What do you think my motivation is?
#56 Kobi - good description of what happened - but not an explanation of why Labour closed.
#63
If you knew some of the Lib Dem personalities in recent years, you would have said that it was a necessary qualification.
#62
"Considering that PFI/PPP has been almost the only finance method available for capital projects you are probably right."
The flaw in your argument is that long before PFI existed, the only game in town was building schools and paying for it from taxation. Lots of schools were built and renovated in that period, weren't they? Not.
#64
Get on a bus, and go to the Council offices, City Archivist section, and ask for the minutes of Lothian Regional Council Transportation Committee, and Lothian and Borders Police Board.
As for Ainslie Park, it was closed due to (a) not enough kids being sent there; (b) not enough kids going to be there in the foreseeable future, even if all the catchment area kids went; (c) building in poor repair, needing major work spent on it; (d) poor educational experience for the kids who were there.
Vote them out...
We can bitch away on forums like this, and no matter how well researched and thorough our argumenst are, they turn into tomorrow's chip paper (virtual type).
I have felt there is a need for a web site that pulls together the dissatisfaction with what is happening in our name, at both local and national levels. Incompetence I can tolerate, but it is the corruption and backhanders going on, barely challenged if it does see the light of day.
This site could be something that sustains the campaigns long after they have moved to the inside pages of the newspapers.
edinburghsucks does a good job, but in my opinion is too personal, and is obviously driven by a very few people. This would be an attempt at least to be a voice of the people.
The voting shambles is just a case in point, where the guilty ones will produce waffley statements and then keep their heads down, and then it usually goes away.
The site would need careful planning, and we would need to look at the legal aspects, but that can be handled.
If you (Vote them out) is interested, or anyone else for that matter, leave a message here on this forum and I will provide an email address so you can contact me and we can take it from there.
If you are Special Branch just call yourself Mr Brown fae Niddrie and I will be able to pick you out. (They don't like this sort of thing you know!).
so much for our self interest politicians, telling us that,the children of today are the future. if they mean that then shut up and put up. if engerland is not happy at scotlands desire to self finance using our oil revenues then the english can find someone else to payroll their lavish lifestyle.we are done after 300 years of being ripped off.much like the americans the english are quite happy to let the rest of the world support their habits.
I did say after they lost out on the closures they will start by cutting the budgets for the schools this they have done before the proposals £6000 that what each school was told to cut from their budget a bit like the Meadowbank scenario run the building down over the years and its well its a bit tatty now who suffers your child the Hypocrites(LIBS) never give up do they
#67 Kobi
Which party do you support?Or are you ashamed of it?If you dont support a party - whu dont you stand at the next election?
For all the reasons you give Labour could have just spent more money and kept the school open.
Are you saying Labour just didnt care enough or that they were trying to save money by not addressing the issues you cite?
Labour closed Ainslie Park school - why?
Kobi et all.
Ainslie Park was closed when Cllr Maginnis (remember her) was the Education convenor.
She said it was merging with Broughton for the purposes of 'SOCIAL ENGINEERING'. She wrote an article about it in the Scotsman at the time.
Whether she had, currently has or ever will have any qualifications in Social Engineering I doubt, but that was the reason she gave.
I am sure we all have our own definitions of social engineering. Mine comprises a 15 year old NED, and 2 half bricks in MY hands.
Perhaps it is not too late for the learned Councillor to explain more fully what she meant, and of course tell us if it was successful.
cllr. mclaren, how do we fill budgetary holes after proposals are withdrawn.there should be no holes caused by any proposals being withdrawn. you fools obviously live in cloud cuckoo land spending our hard-earned cash with your silly pet projects. if you are not up to the job ?then make way for someone who is.how clever is marilyne mclaren ? not very!worse than that !WHO CARES!
IT IS INTERESTING THAT ONCE GEORGE FOULKES HAS VENTED HIS SPLEEN ALL IS WONDERFUL IN THE LABOUR LAND OF SILLY GAMES, BEING PLAYED WITH THE KIDS EDUCATION.REMEMBER WHEN TONY BLAIR SPOUTED EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION WAS THAT THE BEGINNING OF LABOURS SCAM?MR. FOULKES IF IT WERE NOT FOR YOU INTERFERING SELF-INTEREST MUPPETS OF THE NEW LABOUR MOVEMENT NO PROBLEMS WOULD EXIST .
#71 Doh
Whether I support any party or not is irrelevant to the issues on here. Some may say that party politics is at the root of all the problems in Edinburgh.
The most important reason for the closure of Ainslie Park was that the educational experience of the kids there was poor.
Your answer though was to throw more money at the half-empty (actually I don't think that it was even as full as that) building, to the detriment of kids elswehere in the city.
It was the parents in the area who condemned Ainslie Park, the Labour council was just the executioner.
Question for you to answer: how empty should a school be before it gets closed?
#72
Wrong. Ainslie Park was merged with Broughton in preference to merger with Craigroyston for "social engineering" purposes, or as I put it earlier for "a better social mix" as one of the reasons.
That was not the reason for one school being closed in the first place. I have already described those reasons.
#75 Kobi
If you too are embarrassed to say which political party you support fair enough.
If you did support a political party it might explain your prejudices - that is why I asked - I wondered if you had an "excuse".
AS for how many kids in a school before it is closed? Are you serious - have not read my previous contributions on school closures.
Labour closed Ainslie Park School.FULL STOP.
You and any other Edinburgh parents and taxpayers can draw their own conclusions.
#76
Why the rush to pigeonhole people? If I declare support for a party, you then rush to condemn me on the basis of some policies you don't like with which you immediately associate me. It's an old trick of those who are poor at responding to debate in these sorts of fora.
Anyway, I recognise the good in all parties (apart from the Lib Dems who are pointless, charlatans and hypocrites).
So answer the question. I don't have time to trawl through the rest of your postings on the subject.
Labour closed Ainslie Park, with the support of most of the councillors on the council - fence-sitter Mclaren was no doubt calling for more consultation and refusing to take a decision as usual - and they were right to do so.
Anyway, what is your obsession? It was not the only school that Labour administration closed.
#78
Well the moment you close a school, the local community always seems to dream up every sort of idea to use the building, involving more public subsidy for its activity.
Most Ainslie Park Parents - those that still sent their weans there - supported the merger with Broughton, because of the greater social mix and lack of community confidence and cohesion.
My daughter was one of them.
Not so with the SNP/LID botched fiasco!
Doooooohhhhhhh!!!!!!!!
Ainslie Park was transferred to Telford College around the time Thatcher uncoupled FE provision from Local Authority management and it was refurbished and became a part of a successful thriving Campus, widening local access and opportunities.
Now Telford have regrouped and consolidated itself in its new West Granton Campus as a centre of excellence for Adult Learning, with strong community links and participation.
The old sites have presumably been sold off fer development o' more flats - not affordable family/mixed tenure hooses.
"Social engineering" - or listening to parents and recognising and supporting community aspirations.
What point are you actually making Doh, efter 6 'oors on-line?
I trust that yer Mammy Mrs McLaren has finally tucked you up in yer wee bed by now..... but I'm sure we will all enjoy yer bemused ravings - ranging from 'semi -sensible' to semi-detached - the morrow!
An aside - has the wee Laird left the building?
Power to the people. I have no kids, but Education is very important.
Home learning on Computers for kids who are old & wise enough to use a computer should be the way forward even if its for 20% 30% (2 / 3 Days a week) of there Educational time - & the other times they all could go to one big schools to do activities that need interactions with others.
There would be a huge cost reduction!
It would also keep at least one parent at home 20% 30% (2 / 3 Days a week) keeping there own kids in check rather than the teachers.
Also if any parents that do not work & are on the Social & are @ home all day any way they should have there own kids @ home lets say 80% of the time home learning.
Lets fact it, its better this than just shipping them all of to school & letting them all get on with it.
#77 Kobi
Embarassed to admit you support Labour?Is it Iraq, ID cards, cash for honours or what?
Anyway I am not putting anyone in a hole - I'll leave mindless prejudice to you - you are better at it.
Labour did close Ainlsie Park school - another contributor says they closed others - of course they did - any responsible council has to rationalise crowded and empty schools.
Labour could have kept Ainslie Park open - rebuilt it - with up to date facilities - changed it's catchement area to do their "social engineering". They didnt. Labour closed it.
20. Drumbrae Primary parent,
Thats actually a good point some of the saved schools, once their budgets are cut to the bone may become untenable and strengthen the case for closure during the next "round".
Perhaps the councillor should check the pockets on her "other Robe" for the funding.
37. FamilyMan, non-political
Are we related? as we seem to have the same surname.
I also agree with you on most things except I probably would use the trams (for a laugh) and NEVER cycle when I can drive.
68. Stephen101
"We can bitch away on forums like this, and no matter how well researched and thorough our argumenst are, they turn into tomorrow's chip paper (virtual type)."
Thats not actually correct, these days everybody uses google on most subjects so with reasonably well chosen wording on your posting you can "virtually" guarantee that your views "persist" in a way that paper or the spoken word can't possibly.
But yes straight bitching goes nowhere.
As for a saner version of edinburghsucks, that could be a good idea, i guess it will be mainly down to how its done.
#82 Surely the salient point is that Labour took tough decisions and stuck with them, while the present administration fill their boots at the first sign of local opposition. If a school closure is justified, it should go ahead. There will always be individuals adversely affected by such a decision, but it is the council's job to act in the greater good.
Unfortunately, people like Marilyne Maclaren, Steve Cardownie and Jenny Dawe have built their careers by switching sides in an argument when it suited them politically. You simply cannot govern that way, as many people, including me, pointed out before the last election. Unfortunately it takes this sort of mess to demonstrate this truth to the population at large.
70. davydee
I agree this must not be allowed to happen If a school is to remain open it must be supported fully.
I think that would be a sensible part of the new consultation document. (which IS coming)
Namely "we are proposing closure of schools X,Y and Z but we are increasing funding to schools A,B and C".
The reasoning for closures must be robust enough for a "logical parent" to accept (obviously some parents will never accept a school closure no matter the reasoning behind it).
If they proppse closing a school they MUST offer something concrete (or sandstone) that is demonstrably BETTER at the time of the "handover", nothing airy fairy or "at some point in the future".
79. Kobi
I assume you mean "before" a school is closed as opposed to "after" .
I mean the kind of actvity the "community" uses a school for after tends to be as flats/grafitti walls/ tinder?.
I do understand your point though, communities do try to pull together with a "what do we use this building for" list to help stave off closure, and its a fair thing to do.
My thoughts on the matter however are that its the buildings "primary"(!) use that is paramount.
How good is it as a school? If it's good at that, build on that, if it's not so good, fix it.
81. Mikey-The-Talk107-Emailer
Smells like HOME SCHOOLING to me.
Perhaps you should speak to Jenny Dawe for her opinion.
Personally I believe home schooling could be a problem for a lot of people taking aside the whole "social hamstringing" issue do you really think that a large proportion of parents would make decent teachers?
As for leaving it all to the PC, that would be educational armagheddon, why not leave it to the XBOX with an added porn and "chat all day" channel.
#86 Duncan in Edinburgh
Another shameless plug for the Labour party.
However I agree with your first paragraph if not your second.I wish Labour had changed their minds abour bombing Iraq.
#90 Moscow
Some truth in what you say - it takes time for a party to become accostmed to the responsibility of office as well as the luxury of opportunity. Although, if you will forgive me, I think that accusation is probably more accurately leveled at the SNP councillors - who are all new and of course undermined theconsultation process.
The SNP councillors were easy to lazy to read the report before they voted for it - or to stupid to understand it. Anyway now that it has been explained to them by their MSPs - they could consider not claiming their renumeration for this "lapse".
I guess if Labour were wanting to show themselves as being so responsible they would suggest what schools they would recommend (not demand) closing and where exactly the budget cuts could be made.
The Lib Dems are by no means perfect - but we are listening - if the Labour party have anything constructive to say - lets hear it.
#92 The mess that the new administration is in is entirely of their own making. The alleged financial "black hole", which has been variously set at £2.3million, £10million and £25million, is a complete fabrication. That is what happens when canny officials and departmental heads take advantage of a change in personnel on the elected benches and drastically revise their budgets. The fresh-from-school LibDems and SNP councillors took it all at face value and screamed deficit, when an experienced council leader would simply have sent the budgets back and told them not to be so stupid.
It is telling that the first priority of this coalition of the unwilling was to ditch the notion that an elected individual was responsible for each department, and return to the committee-based fudge system of the past. And here we are reaping the rewards of that decision already.
#84 non-political - seems we are related!
I do drive a car too (and once in a blue moon a motorbike), but only when the other options are not practical - okay, okay, I admit it, sometimes I'm just plain lazy too.
I can't see the point investing in trams though until we sort out the budgets for basic services.
True whilst the budgets are apparently separate, sucking the funding out of the schools they intend to keep open may make my tram ride quite a glum affair.
Perhaps they should freeze the budgets but crack on with the new document, that way they are neither"wasting" (using that word advisedly) cash nor starving schools in the interm.
That way they can't be accused of nobbling schools to get them on the list which is what the EN is implying in the Bonnington primary story.
