Its taken the Lib Dem /SNP Council only 3 months to prove what a disaster they are! These decisions are a disgrace.

Thought I'd be first to get this one in!

I know the budgets are different but close schools, spend money on trams.

That's a real vote winner!

I really think this is all too much, far too quickly.

It smacks of officials trying to get a bunch of relatively inexperienced, new Councillors to undertake a programme as fast as possible.

Wiser heads would SLOW this whole process down ... Edinburgh has a near £1billion annual revenue and capital budget; the financial pressures could be contained and this whole process better managed.

The politicians in charge need to get a grip of their officials - and fast - as childrens education is at stake here.

I think everyone understands that some rationalisation is needed. However the complete lack of any parental involvement in drawing up these plans - in contrast to the previous administration - is wrong.

And unleashing this on parents when School Boards have just been abolished, and the replacement Parent Councils yet to be set up, is just plain shifty.

Do they have a clue at all ? ?

Victoria Primary School

• On its website the school attributes its high attainment in maths, writing and reading to its pupil-teacher ratio of 18 to one. But that small pupil roll has made it vulnerable to closure, with teaching costs 60 per cent above the city average.

Are the council not aware of the huge development going on right now across the street from this School. Disgraceful.

[1] Seoras: How are they a disgrace? You statement is just an appeal to the emotions.

In the case of falling demand there must come a point when it is no longer cost effective to provide a facility. The council, like commercial businesses, can't have an open-ended commitment to provision of facilities.

Perhaps you would argue otherwise. However, when confronted with a similar open-ended commitment on your contributions in the form of council, or local, tax i daresay you would change your tune pdq.

Amazing, how much would it cost to save these schools or even put something in their place? Yet this council seem to want to close these just as fast as giving the go ahead for the ridiculous tram scheme -

Thank 'f' I never voted for these clams.

Edinburgh Councillor = Clueless, no matter what political divide they represent.

Nightmare story...just wait until Midlothian find out...they'll use this as an excuse for some closures themselves....despite the extra funding from Fiona Hyslop, or am I just being paranoid?

To quote Helen Lovejoy-

"Will someone PLEASE think of the children?" lol

To be fair, attending unsuitable, rundown, half empty schools is good for no-one.

Close them as long as capacity exists elsewhere.
Sad to see my old primary going though, Caigentinny.

i just knew this snp should not be in power. trams or schools. a very hard decision. not...... a straight forward ballot paper and these numpties would not be in power...

So where are all the City kids going? Are their parents moving to more affordable housing in the outer lying areas?

Erm #12, SNP did not want the trams remember ?

How can the council consider closing Drum Brae School when they know that over 1000 houses are earmarked for the area and that other schools, built by them, are not big enough to cope with this.

I am aware of a very small intake at the school for P1 this year and next but just like Dr Beeching and the railway closures of the late 60's this is a very shortsighted policy that will come back to haunt Edinburgh. However the current idiots will not be in power then and can criticise others who have to spend to sort the problems they created.

Course this will have nothing to do with the large tract of land around Drum Brae School and probably the other threatened schools which will be sold for even more houses.

Edinburgh Council whether this admin or previous is arrogant, profligate with other peoples money and should be held accoutnable for the excessive spending on useless policies like the opening and closing of city centre streets on what seems like an annual basis.

And as for the Trams, I cannot wait for the chaos caused by them in the city centre where getting home this month is a joke. Just exactly who atre the trams for. they do not appear to provide a service to the main residential parts of the city just to council backed schemes like Ocean Terminal and the Gyle.

There will be no children in the city in the future
http://www.edinburghatrisk.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miko9rcRhX4

aye and labour and their cronies made sure the trams were going to happen or it would cost millions to cancel.no win for who ever got into power.is that not right holy joe?

#4 Agree, timimg with loss of School Boards and PTAs and the School Forums not up and running yet is very convenient for the council.

#6 Abbeyhill and Stockbridge are nearly full, why are they being targetted? Has it anything to do with them being on prime city centre sites the council can sell?

The EN comment on Westerburn says a lot though. Low school roll because pupils who should be going there are being allowed to attend other schools outside their catchment area.

Stop the trams and save the schools.

I remember our old PM saying "education education education",

Abbeyhill Primary is a well run and much loved asset to the area. It's running at only 20 pupils below capacity, has a great grassy playground and a swimming pool.
Yes parents travel from outside the catchment area to attend but surely that shows how good the school is.
My son loves it there, we will fight the closure all the way.

How any administration can put forward the closure of so many schools, some of them very successful, is just astonishing.

The taxpayer is currently paying TIE and their consultants £5m per month for designing the tramline (not that we have had much evidence of what the £90m+ so far has produced) and yet the Council is trying to justify swingeing cuts to our educational and community facilities. Meanwhile, the lack of affordable housing becomes a bigger problem and we can't find funds for decent sports facilities or a few measly quid to keep the Play4It scheme running.

Quite, quite unbelievable! Just don't pay TIE their bonuses and the problem should be solved.

Should people not be looking to blame the previous administration rather than the present one? After all the Labour Council kept down the council tax rise because an election was coming up. They also had similar plans in place if you care to do the necessary research. This all comes about because the maladministration by the previous Council.

I knew the anti-tram brigade would jump on this.

It's not as simple as Trams vs. Schools, as they two come out very different budgets.

If the trams don't go ahead then Edinburgh won't suddenly get £600 million (or indeed any extra cash) for schools.

Any money not spent on Edinburgh's trams will be spent largely on road building elsewhere in Scotland.

Whether or not you are pro or anti-Tram, the bigger issue is that the SNP government is anti-Edinburgh, as they seem to think Edinburgh is wealthy enough already.

This story clearly shows that it's not and needs Capital City status and funds from central government to reflect this.

How our SNP councillors can reconcile this position is beyond me! How do they sleep at night?

I hope people will fight this..... what they should avoid is being "divided and ruled" by the council.... they shouldn't be drawn into arguments about keeping "our school" open and closing the others.... closures are bad both for the closing school and for the school they get sent to.... and the UK one of the richest countries in the world too .... a disgrace!

12 why would it worry you thought you where moving away from the rat race ??

It's about time. I'm sick of my taxes being thrown at schools which are failing or who's numbers are so low, they cost twice the regional average to run. What an absurd waste of public money.

I want my councillors to take these kinds of tough decisions. I went to a state school with over 1000 pupils, average class sizes of around 20-25 and did very well. And I had a half hour walk to get there. There's no reason why children today can't do the same. Fitness levels would improve for a start.

If people want smaller classes and smaller school roles in the middle of their local areas, let them build and run their own private schools.

The tax payer can't go on subsidising them forever.

As for the TRAM issue. You guys are making a lot of sense. The bus network in Edinburgh is excellent. Why replace it? Instead they should continue to develop it and make it cleaner and safer and spend the rest of the money on the A9 upgrade.

Ok. Rant over...

I hope that someone in the council is working out how far children might have to walk of cycle to school if all these schools are closed. I believe that the council is keen on promoting walking and cycling.

And it will be sad to see a number of Victorian and Edwardian school buildings going. They have lasted a lot longer than many of the newer school buildings and with large rooms, offer much more flexibility than many of their more modern counterparts. With good maintenance they could last a lot longer.

Of course, spending money on new-builds (especially on "buy now, pay later" PPP schemes) is a lot easier to sell to voters than just keeping buildings maintained. It would be interesting to know what the annual spend on PPP payments is.

I notice they don't mention that 7 of the 23 secondary schools in Edinburgh are at or over capacity and that another 5 more are at over 90% (Edinburgh own figures by the way).

Edinburgh are passing the buck for providing suitable school accommodation into the hands of PPP and private developers. By enforcing that new housing developments include a new school, they can close down the surrounding schools and not have to pay to upgrade them. By forcing Drummond kids to walk miles across the city to Broughton (because nearby Leith and Trinity are both at or over capacity), they can use the newly PPP upgraded building for Broughton Primary and some offices and again save on upgrade costs AND they can justify shutting Stockbridge because the new Broughton Primary at Drummond will have more capacity - bonus!

Local primaries are vastly underestimated. Allowing your kids to take the first steps to independance by letting them walk to school on their own is very important. Most parents are happy to do this when the walk is safe but they're not going to let their kids walk miles and cross busy roads. Combined with the extra time travelling, they're all going to jump in the car! So much for the environment and encouraging exercise! So much for the personal touch of small local schools.

No wonder the roll is falling - the city is becoming so difficult to live in for families.

It's time for a referendum...since the ruling powers don't appear to have a clue.
This tram idea could be called a joke if it wasn't, at this time, so financially serious.
Perhaps a tax revolt is called for...listen to the people or stuff it!!

#16 says "There will be no children in the city in the future"

And what children are left will be poorly educated when organisations in your Umbrella Group, such as PPAG, would willing keep 1,400 pupils crammed into a site totally unfit for purpose with no access to green space.

This is an excellent idea. I'm fed up seeing taxpayers money being thrown at education.

Privatise the lot, always a good idea. If this generation needs educated people to nurse them and take care of their sewage system and mend their roads and fight their wars in 30 years let those who need it pay for it. Oh wait, f*ck! We all do, and we should rightly pay for it.

How many grants has Edinburgh council given to the rich by way of subsidies to set up their businesses? That is where savings should be made, tax help for the rich, it is in all our interests to have a well educated society.

Stop the trams, eduction may be in need of changes but they should not be driven by funding shortages caused by an unwanted tram line.

I wish the LIB DEMS and CONSERVATIVES would wake up and realise that it is not the SNP who are the enemy here.

I'm sure the fact that the developers were salivating over these nice parcels of central land had nothing to do with the decision.

Re 24.

Yes it is that simple. Every penny which the Council spends on the congestion creating trams could be spent on schools. That would immediately close the 'funding gap'.

But there is worse to come, when the liars at TIE are finally given the signal that they have spent enough sunk costs and can reveal the true amount this tram line is going to cost we are going to see absolutely enormous funding difficulties at the Council.

Re. the school closures themselves, No 29 has it spot on. The Council gets a capital receipt from selling 'nice' area old schools - many gifted from Churches etc - and then mortgages for the next 30 years on ridiculously expensive low quality PPP schools.

#34 Yes. The council is probably especially pleased about sites that are in the "tram belt" (within 750m of the trams). The council can use receipts from those sites to fund the trams, and the developers pay a contribution to the council depending on the size of the development.

I agree with Ironic Maiden #21, the swimming pool at Abbeyhill is a fantastic asset to the community and schools in the area.

Many generations of people have learned to swim there.

We are loosing swimming pools all over the city, we cannot afford to loose another one.

I suppose the developers are only thinking about how much money they will make when the site is full of flats. Once it's gone, it's gone.

but the council can blow ££££££££££'s on trams & statues & new offices

No 13 you hit the nail on the head, people have left Stockbridge as they can't afford bigger property for their growing family. Lets see if I can hazard a guess as to what will happen to the school. Apartments (luxury of course), bought by singles, who'll stay maybe a couple of years, or the absolutely loaded who will buy as a weekend/holiday pad in the city. At last now people are begining to notice the decline of the city kid, thankfully mine will have great memories of the area, 7 years of them spent happily at Stockbridge Primary. MONEY GRABBING, MONEY GRABBING.

The full proposals are at:

http://cpol.edinburgh.gov.uk/getdoc_ext.asp?DocId=100415

I'm a sixth year pupil at Drummond Community High School. My school is NOT empty, NOT falling apart, and NOT rough. It is a good school despite it's undeserved reputation and I will fight this as hard as possible. Drummond has now, for the first time ever, reached past the 500 pupil mark. It is a small school and this is how it has to stay. To cram us in with the already overpopulated Broughton High would be a disaster. Divisions already exist in Broughton between the original Broughton students and what would have been the Astley Ainsley pupils, and they were integrated generations ago!
Small class sizes are accepted all round as a good thing. I feel privileged to be part of a small school, as it has much more of a friendly, community atmosphere, and I would absolutely hate to be in a school like Broughton where you can ask someone if they know another pupil in their year and they don't even recognise the name! School is not and should never be about processing children through the system - it should be a happy, educating experience and stuffing schools full of children is certainly not the way to go about this.

This has nothing to do with my attachment to the school. The fact that this is happening to so many schools and nurseries is worrying to say the least, and is completely and totally unjustifiable. The reasons they give for the schools they have chosen are completely nonsensical! Abbeyhill is to be closed because it's too BIG to serve the community? When it's got an almost full school role?

Absolutely ridiculous and shows that whether it's a Labour council or a Lib Dem/SNP one, they're all the same and none of them care. Thankfully however Labour seem to be (however opportunistically) opposing these proposals.

I will be on Princes Street with Colin Fox on Saturday campaigning against this if anyone would like to find out a bit about how to get involved in fighting this.

well the people of Edinburgh may now appreciate the Labour council they voted out. Lib Dems are Tories using another name and are now showing there true colours this is a disgrace children's education should come before this £10milon the lib Dem's are so desperate to keep in a reserve account they say these closures are not financial what a lot of rubbish don't take the people of Edinburgh as fools shame on you

i think that its terrible that they wont to close any school we will be trying everything to stop them from closing my kids school

It is quite correct to close schools with a falling schhol age population. Even more closures could be made if The Council were to end the shocking bigotted and archaic policy of having separate schools for Catholics

I don't get it... For years the government has been going on about making class sizes smaller, now they want to close schools with the 'Ideal' class size and put these pupils in other schools which will send class sizes through the roof again!!

How about the councillors stop getting expenses paid out on top of their over-inflated wages/waistline.

Is this the same council that complain about parents driving their kids to school? If so do they really expect pupils from the Wester Hailes catchment area to walk to Forester high? Quite a trek in the unpredictable (global warming affected) weather we're having.

I think the clogged arteries in the overweight council members is cutting off the oxygen to their brain cell(s)*

* delete as appropriate

what an absolute shambles, ruining kids education, its a crying shame, i hope edinburgh revolts against this disgusting plan.

Surely education should be the top priority here. These decisions are a disgrace made by fools who probably don't even live in the city. If this is just the start of the Lib Dem/SNP reign then god help us!
The trams should have been scrapped because no one in Edinburgh wants them and they are are complete waste of taxpayers money. Trams over education?? aye well done. I mean it's no exactly rocket science is it? Angry Drummond parent.

Check out what you can do to stop the family silver being sold off
http://eh8.org.uk/common_good_0

This has a lot more to do with previous incompetence and cover ups plus perhaps the next ppfi contract awards.
Find out who has their snout in the trough!

Thank you, Sarah! Your well-written, articulate post shows that schools with small class sizes are an investment in the potential of our younger generation. How can this ever be considered a loss of assets?

Ok so the buildings cost a lot to run therefore we should get better use out of them. They should be used more - outside of school hours - for after school clubs and community acitivities. And staffed approprately.

I don't like the idea of Primary schools being centralised, they are often at the heart of their communities. Small children should be able to walk to school, not have to travel. Isn't there something in the council's transport policy about this?

My sons' school is not one of the ones being closed, but has class sizes of an average 28-33 kids per class. Surely it would make sense to use falling roles as a means of reducing class sizes?

The Fort school near where I live is not on teh list, yet the sink estate it serves is scheduled for dcemolition, while Victorie School, with a good track record is being closed.

I'm sure the parents will be overjoyed to have their kids bundeld in among the lpocal chavs and ner do wells.

I was going to give my opinions on this matter but
comment #41 sums it up much better than I could.

All I will say is that my school ( Drummond CHS) is a small school but this means that the students, many of which may come from more difficult backrounds, get the individual attention they need and would not get at a larger school. Also for alot of students who are at drummond and are in the catchment area for the school, Broughton high school is quite a distance away and I'm sure theres alot of parents who would not be comfortable with their children having to make this journey every day to school.

Sarah Higgins (41). It is encouraging to hear such conviction and passion from one so young. You should write to your local councillors on the subject, just as I and, I am sure, many others, shall be doing. I hope many more Drummond pupils follow your example.

By the way, don't write Broughton off. My daughter left recently with 7 Highers and 2 Advanced Highers at excellent grades and she was far from being the only one in her year to achieve such good results.

Broughton has to cater for children from a very wide range of backgrounds and ability but the facilities and standard of teaching are in place for kids to achieve if they want to.

Strange, how the 3 high schools closing are community schools, and how they are also closing community centres...
How will closing a school like Castlebrae help the regeneration of Craigmillar? What will these kids, already in a deprived area, get educated in a big, anonymous school with 32 pupils per class already?
Castlebrae Community High School is at the heart of Craigmillar, educating not only teenagers but also adults. Staff are dedicated and ready to make a difference in the life of these people.
Turning it into a police station? Well, the local population already has a chip on the shoulder with the force, the best way to make it worse is to turn their school into a a police quarter.
"The city's education leader, Councillor Marilyne MacLaren, said the closures were for educational, not financial, reasons." How can it be educational to transfer the Craigmillar kids to another community, with classes of more than 30, less support, more bullying, etc.
Are we really wanting Craigmillar to become a no-man's land?

#44 what are you havering about. 2 RC schools are on the list. This argument has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the financial mismanagement of the previous council administration and the blinkered & short term priorities of the present administration.

#48 - the trams aren't a complete wast of money as they could always be used as additional classrooms when the population kicks off again instead of having to hire in portakabins. Didn't I read somewhere that Edinburgh is likely to become the largest city in Scotland by 2020 or something?

Not just the pupils who are affected but all the youth groups and other societies who make good use of school premises.

I think some people are confusing government schools with education. It's about budgets, people, and that's all we should expect from government.

Education is the responsibility of parents, and if you're not sure on what the law says about that look up the education act.

Parents -> Education
Government -> Budgets.

It's quite simple, really.

My children attend Abbeyhill Primary School which is only 5 minutes walk away. We are considered outside the catchment area. I repeat, OUTSIDE the catchment area.

How can councillors justify closing this local primary school on the grounds that there are not enough people in the area, at the same time they plan to bring in over 1500 more residents just 10 minutes walk away? This is bureaucracy gone utterly and completely mad.

Come to the public meeting tonight at Meadowbank, 7pm and ask councillors there how we can cope with such crazy losses in facilities. Are they trying to destroy Edinburgh? Have they totally lost the plot?

www.savemeadowbank.org

#56, I know, I wasn't meaning Broughton was bad, I know it's a very good school that gets very good results! It is already absolutely full of students though, a massive school, how they expect to fit 500 more in I have no idea! It is also quite far away from Drummond, especially considering Drummond's feeder schools are not from the better off area beside Drummond, but are from Broughton, Leith Walk and Abbeyhill, which are even further from Broughton than Drummond is. But Leith Academy is, naturally, at it's capacity.

I think any sort of campaign around this has to be centralised or it will all fall apart. Individual campaigns will be used by the council as scapegoats - pitted against each other, while the council attacks the weaker campaigns first. This sort of thing, where there is so much emotional investment, has to be handled sensibly with an all for one approach, and schools need to look after each other. It's a really difficult one, because it will be hard to orchestrate something with so many schools and nurseries involved. Perhaps even a Save Our Services sort of campaign, given the other council attacks on community centres and sports facilities.

Once again, another disgraceful example of treating families with complete thoughtless disregard, simply because they want to balance the books, or sell off land to property developers.

When most people think of vandals, they imagine neds smashing windows, or spraying graffiti, but when I think of vandals, I think of the type that wear suits and sit in our City Chambers.

Told you before, the money for the Grand TramCar Vanity Project is going to have to come from somewhere. Yes, I know about 'separate budgets' too but Budgets aren't cast in stone and money saved in one is money to be spent somewhere else next year. The Embra FibDems, with Tory and Labour support, will end up selling their Grannies over Trams- watch this space.

This is brilliant, you couldn't make it up.

When the previous council was trying to reduce the number of schools in the city the lib/dems opposed it every step of the way.

Now they're proposing an even bigger package of closures for "educational" reasons. Aye right.

The Lib Dems and Tories were fairly triumphalistic, I recall, when they overturned the decision to close Lismore.

Now they're proposing to .......... close Lismore !

I also think one of the new SNP cllrs was a member of the Lismore Action Group (or whatever it was called) now the new coalition that he is part of, is proposing to ..... close Lismore !

Good luck to all those who are going to stand up for their local school and community.

After looking at the schools to be closed, it has dawned on me, the way to save your local school from closer is to apply to become a PPP (public private partnership) built and managed school. The city council enters into a 25-30 lease with a private contractor. The council could not afford to break that contractual arrangement, thats why Craigroyston High School and the 4 (yes 4) primary schools in West Pilton and 2 in Muirhouse have not been targeted for closure.

If we are so hard up why are we building a tram line, surely the money would be better spent on our kids and their education..............

What this article doesn't mention (you have to read the full document for all the details) is proposals to merge other schools as a result of these closures. For example, they are proposing to relocate both Broughton Primary and St Mary's Primary to the vacated Drummond Community High building - selling off their lovely Victorian buildings and large playgrounds. The full document is at:
http://cpol.edinburgh.gov.uk/getdoc_ext.asp?DocId=100415

#66 - That's what I thought, but Drummond IS PPP and it's still facing this. I suspect the council will still be renting the building and using it for more profitable purposes for Amey Contracters.

I don't know whether to be astonished or depressed by your cynicism but, you are, of course, absolutely correct: the Council will attempt to play one school off against the other and will, without orchestrated and robust opposition, steamroller through all their proposals and feel justified in doing so. That, sadly, is the way democracy seems to work these days. I am reminded of the quote "Democracy is the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people".

Having discussed this with my ex-Broughton daughter, she suggests this would be a very good matter for the various student councils to take up, so that all pupils from all local schools can send a clear and undivided message to the political body and also organise all pupils in the respective schools to participate in the consultation process. This would be likely to attract significant media interest which appears to be the only force that politicians really fear!

You are also correct in saying that Broughton is already a very large school and, despite the plans to build a new school, I doubt whether the Council will have factored in sufficient capacity for an extra few hundred pupils.

Best of luck.

Sorry. My post No. 70 was meant for Sarah Higgins (62).

This is all about finance.Who has asked the schools ,teachers parents or pupils what they think and want?? Perhaps we should ask how much it cost to build the new City Headquarters at Waverly Court? How much was wasted on the "Oor Willie" statue? Perhaps the council should get their own house in order first before disrupting 1000,s of young peoples education.!!!

It is obviously not sensible to keep Schools that are at only 1/3 capacity open unless that School is in a rural area with no other nearby option.

However I do have to ask - If there is GBP 5 million available for the administration of the silly tram building project (in order that Labour and Lib/Dem politicians can play toy trains) then surely that would be a more obvious place to find savings ?.

Edinburgh City Council under the Labour maladministration of course went over budget by £10 million last year so money has to be saved...I don't think even City Councils have bank managers quite 'that friendly'.

.

I find Miss Higgins anything but cynical! She appears to have the combination of intelligence and common sense that's sadly lacking in many of those in power at the Council.

I am so glad to see so many people interested in commenting on the proposals to close schools, centres, etc. Each place has its own reason for being kept open and hopefully we will have the chance to air all of these in the next few weeks. Education is such a vital part of everyone's upbringing that such decisions should not be made in haste or for purely financial reasons. Schools and centres also provide a lot more than education or a place to meet. At their best, hey provide a sense of identity, pride, tradition and culture. Remember these decisions will affect the lives of a significant number of people in a wide range of communities.

It is refreshing to see this new administration, taking this decision which will be unpopular with some. The previous administration Labour has been putting this decision off for years.

However the LibDem/SNP are going to do what needs done.

Governments and Local Governments have to make popular and unpopular decisions from time to time and I for one am pleased to see this adminitration is prepared to act.

Those of you who keep on about the trams when things like this come up, if the SNP were the controlling party in this new administration there would be no trams in Edinburgh.

This is all thanks to Labour mis-management, there is now doubt about that!

This is all thanks to Labour mis-management, there is NO doubt about that!

'TWENTY-TWO schools are to be closed '
'School's out as 16 to be closed'
I suppose Twnty-Two sounds a better than SIXTEEN

Craigentinny and St Cuthberts? Both of which have Language and Communication Units attached to them? Units in which places are already in desperately short supply?

And Westfield Court - they also have special needs places. I'm especially sad to see this one go. My son went there, and they're wonderful. It's been there for 54 years. Why is the council suddenly bothered about it being upstairs now?

They need to know how this is going to benefit their children, how the money is going to be reinvested and they need to know they have been heard."

This is the Quote from CONcillor Aitken he is having a laugh this is to do with Money not Education and will only hurt our children how do we vote these non-entities into power why dont we get rid of some of these CONcillors and their over inflated salaries
we should start a campaign enbloc that no closures are done but this has to be done enmasse and not divided to have any effect

#78
Get a grip!
The present council are having to sort out the shambles left by Labour, if anyone is to get the blame it should be the previous Labour Council
The present council recognise that there is falling numbers at these schools and are not financialy economic

It was Ewan Aitken last year who was behind the plans for closing schools due to falling numbers of kids

What about all the staff who work at these schools too? The council are struggling to redeploy 26 nursery nurses whom they deemed surplus to requirements, so what are they going to do with all the "surplus" staff on permanent contracts at the schools deemed for closure. Also nurseries like westfield court are full with no spaces but so are other local nurseries so where will all these 3-4 year olds go for the places the Government promised them.

My son started P1 today and his first letter home was to tell me WHEC is closing and will be moving all pupils to Forrester with all Carrick Knowe Pupils feeding in to Tynecastle. Yet the consultation for this will not take Place until January 2008 and the propose to close WHEC in June of 2008!!!

this has probably been in the pipeline for years schools in other areas are closed down and rebuilt against fierce opposition but still went ahead. although new houses were being built in the same areas .this will be a massive problem for all political parties in the future with the countries door wide open to all who want to enter there wont be enough teachers because there was not enough schools to teach at.you will have to do it yourself while you toil to pay off your mortgage

#79 - I don't know why this article says 16, when the Evening News' own headline is "22 schools in the firing line"

No-one has yet made the point that, as stated, Abbeyhill and Stockbridge have a high percentage of pupils from outside their catchment area.

Hopefully as these pupils will now be able to walk to their neighbourhood schools the school run congestion will be eased?

#90
Its no excuse, its a fact!
Suggest you look
This is why Ewan Aitken has not been vocal on this
The article in the Eveing News of May 17th 2006
is about Ewan Aitken plans to close Burdiehouse Primary due to falling numbers in pupils
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=736382006
This is actually the Labour plans from last year

its a bad idea closing the whec as its the only secondary school in wester hailes,and they want to send them to forresters-i can just see the fights and bullying.why not close forresters or st augustines secondaries as they are right next to each other and what about the travelling in the dark winter mornings

One thing that has been omitted in this artcle is that the closures are not definate as this is only at a consultative stage. The present council are only going over the plans of the previous Labour administration
It shoul also be noted that Ewan Aitken ensured that there were new schools built in hi constituency prior to him losing the election

i'm glad to see that nobody has really shouted about saving Craigentinny primary.This school has been under achieving for years and nobody has bothered to take notice.My daughter goes to the nursery because i live on its doorstep but i was dreading sending her to the school next year.The place is a hell hole,i sincerley hope it gets closed!And as for Ewan Aitken,it seems all he wants is publicity for himself! I'm sick of seeing his face on every shop door in the area!We need a councillor who wants to do well by our families not just transport and tourism!

I find this very very upsetting, i was at DRUMMOND for most off my teenage years, i have alot off memories as do many many people, also my siblings attended the language unit @ CRAIGENTINNY, I also had family @ the WHEC i can't understand why the council are deciding that money is more important than children learning in an enviroment which they are not happy, i can only see this as a bad thing, and there are plans to send children from one school to a school that there is a rivelry with, how is that going to promote a healthy learning situation, THE COUNCIL NEED TO TAKE A LONG HARD LOOK AT WHAT THEY ARE ABOUT TO DO - THEY ARE ABOUT TO DISTROY ALOT OFF PEOPLES LIVES

I don't think we can get party-political and blame the SNP/Libs for this. Labour were considering doing this and, as Ewan Aitken says, support the ideas.
Personally, as a teacher, I feel that something along these lines is needed but don't necessarily agree with the plans in their current format - they look rushed and ill-thought through. For example Craigentinny is meant to be merging with Hermitage despite the fact Hermitage is already nearly at capacity and has very limited playground facilities.
I'd also seriously question any move to close Castlebrae which is more than just a school for people in Craigmillar.
I just wish the Exec would put their money where their mouth is and use falling rolls as an opportunity to actually reduce class sizes and employ all the teachers who can't currently find jobs. The lack of joined-thinking between CEC and the Exec is frankly laughable.

i have two kids at westburn primary and i think that it is a disgrace that they are even thinking about shutting it down.And also the wester hailes education centre and having the kids form whec forresters and st augustines all in one school is acomplete joke. after all the work on whec and westburn it just seems very unfair to do this

The closure of the schools and other recent noted events such as the strike taking place are a result of our council tax dodgers failing to be responsible and pay their council tax. The council tax, after all, covers these services such as education, estate management, street cleaning and other public services. With the council now suffering the consequences of the council tax dodgers in the city, I feel its time these people should be named and shamed. The reality where I live, funnily enough, is those who do not pay their council tax are the first to complain when they haven't had their stair cleaned or bin empty.

MY THOUGHT IS HAD THEY PAID THEIR COUNCIL TAX, WOULD WE BE CLOSING SCHOOLS AND PAYING OFF STAFF WHO PROVIDE VITAL SERVICES TO OUR COMMUNITIES?

AS A COUNCIL TAX PAYER, SAVE THE SCHOOLS AND COMMUNITY SERVICES AND SCRAP THE TRAMS!!!!!!

Poor Deaf chidren need Deaf school and it is very importanf for Deaf children getting excellent education and Donaldson's School for deaf will be close on December. It will be very very sad to see Deaf school will be disappear !!!!!!!!

Aren't Castlebrae, Drummond and Wester Hailes all Community schools?? Which means that more than just school pupils use the buildings.

Very short-sighted of councillors. Surely closing down community centres (except in areas where there are no schools) and transferring all activities to the schools would be a better idea?

Hi. I'm also a sixth year pupil at Drummond Community High School and would like to voice my support for stopping this from becoming reality and back up Sarah, Katie and everyone else completely.

I am so angry that Drummond is being given the axe by the council who seem unaware of the facts that underpin their 'report' (the school roll, the condition of the building) so surely cannot be credible. Not only this but they are also completely insulting the ethos of small schools such as mine by assuming it is preferable for us to be ‘relocated’ into a school such as Broughton where the teaching and personal development methods are, by this very measure, only going to become more anonymous and impersonal than ever.

Also, as the daughter of someone who works at one of the biggest schools in Edinburgh, it is clear to me some parents, such as my own, are actively choosing smaller schools such as mine to avoid this very thing. In addition, the highest results achieved from Drummond this year were in fact BETTER than those of this much bigger and generally seen to be more successful school, which isn’t facing closure.

I find this especially insulting since it is simply to paper over the mess they have got themselves into financially and seem to think coming up with an excuse such as this will cover their back.

Can I also point out that the higher number of births in Edinburgh over the last couple of years meaning that schools will be sorely needed in 10 years time, and that this is the kind of impractical, non forwarding thinking idea that I had expected from this council from day one.

Whilst I agree that the all money allocated to the trams can't be streamed directly into school, I refuse to believe it impossible for a fraction of this to be put towards stopping this and not into a plan which the majority of people, and certainly a great deal of the children and parents who will be affected by these closures have no interest whatsoever i

#103 grow up
Why should my hard earned taxes be wasted keeping a number of schools open that don't need to be so? If these parents want to drive their children out of their catchment area to a school of their choice then let them enlist them at a public school. Perhaps the council could keep some of these schools open but charge fees to allow pupils to attend? Any profits could be used for the benefit of all schoolchildren in Edinburgh rather than a select few.

#104. That's not my point. My my point is that the general consensus is that smaller classes are better, clearly and people choosing Drummond is proof of that.

My daughter started at Drummond in S1 this week. We are in the catchment area, and despite the reservations of some of the parents of her former P7 class who chose to send their children to out of catchment Trinity, I have been extremely pleased with the school. My reasons were partly to do with the ethos of DCH (I love the size of the school and the classes) and also practicality. The school is literally 2 mins away. Having read the well constructed points of view of a few of Drummonds S6 pupils on this forum, I am more sure than ever that I made the right choice.

With Leith Academy at just over 100% capacity, and Trinity at 105% capacity, there is no chance that any of our kids will get in there, even if these schools are more convenient than Broughton High. I didn't want my kids to have to add 1/2 hour travelling time each way to their school day. They have enough on their plates as it is! I certainly didn't want my daughter to be on the Broughton campus during their rebuild. But the council are now taking away my right to chose. There isn't another secondary within miles that has any sort of spare capacity.

I will be fighting hard against this closure and hope that other parents will make their voice heard too. The school is in good nick, the new Head Teacher is making a great start in improving the school and this is showing in the attainment. I believe the roll is increasing too, with the figures being quoted actually the September 2006 roll. Drummond SHOULD have a good future, but instead parents, pupils and staff of Drummond are being sold out along with parents of the other schools whos premises are being sold off for a fast buck by a sell out administration.

yeah why should taxes be spent on schools which are not needed.let market forces prevale...anyhow my kids are all grown up now so why not close tham all !

Im speaking as a student in 3rd year at drummond.

#104 if you had read the article then you whould have read that some, but not all, the schools have the problem of students being out of the catchment area. Also people wouldnt like the idea of having start to pay school fees for their children to go to school when they already pay taxes. After all not everyone can afford to pay that kind of money.
Drummond is a community school and welcomes people of all different backrounds, religions, cultures etc. Shouldnt schools like this be encouraged to stay open, instead of shut down?

#post 95

Craigentinny Primary is far from a hell hole. My child has attended there for some years and is achieving results in addition to being a happy well rounded individual who has benefitted from the supportive learning climate offered at the school.

The school has neglected to work on its reputation in the neighbourhood and has suffered a falling roll as a result of that. I was slightly uneasy about sending my child to the school but after visiting it and seeing what it offered was more than happy to use it. I am a strong believer in sending your child to the local school - if everyone did this we wouldnt be in the mess we are now!

So much for SNP manifestos of small class sizes and more teachers - not for the children of Craigentinny Primary. I for one will be joining the many parents who will campaign to keep this school open. I certainly wont be supporting the ludicrous suggestion of keeping it open as an annex of the Royal High Primary.

Give me the choice of small class sizes and dedicated, enthusiastic teachers at Craigentinny or squashing the kids into already the already oversubscribed Hermitage Park or Royal High School and I know what I would choose anyday.
Sadly I supect we wont be given any choice as the so called "consultation period" is just a smoke screen for a decision which has already been made based purely on finance without consideration of parents/childrens wishes or aspirations.

I have 2 children in Stockbridge PS, P6 and P1. Having received the official letter from the council, 1 of the options is to merge Stockbridge with Flora's and make Stockbridge an Annexe.
If that's the case, why not just take down the sign that say Stockbridge and replace it with one that says flora's, and save us all the stress!
In addition, the letter says we will be invited to meetings to express our opinion. What a waste of time and money! The sad fact is they have already made their decision. I will have to pay for bus fares to take 1 of my children to any alternative school, are the council gonna reduce my council tax? I don't think so. I am sorry to say I voted them in, but I will vote them right back out at the next opportunity!
As Billy Connolly once said, " The desite to become a politician should barr you from ever becoming one!" Not an exact quote, but you get the gist!
Get them out, education should be first and foremost!

Just how many Councillors & their wives, friends, family trusts et al, will stand to make money out of the redevelopments flowing from the closures?
Lets have these people earmarked for forward personal audits.
These snouts-in-the-trough should be reminded that they are playing with public assets - no matter what use the buildings are put to in the short term, their sites must be retained in public ownership.
As for PPP - enough said - the idea runs totally counter to socialist ideals and must be dropped - let's remember how costly the Skye Bridge fiasco has been to the public purse.
Lastly - Thanks for 109's comments - why is Hermitage Park still on the go? - it was a dump in the 50's and apparently still is - lets see some evening-out of the facilities available - even if this does mean bending cachment area rules.

Craigentinny poor achieving i think not. Many of the former pupils have accomplished credit grades in the recent standard grade exams and now fully intend on completing higher courses. Myself included. In fact a few of my year were actually experiencing Level F papers in primary 7, usually not acquired until S1/S2. By expressing Craigentinny as low performing is mightily selective. Why concentrate on the negative aspects and ignore the fact that Craigentinny has successfully produced many efficacious individuals?
Also how can there be a complaint made against Craigentinny regarding it as "half empty"? The council deems 400 pupils as an ideal number for a primary school. Craigentinny has 372. So criticized for being half empty, yet only 28 pupils off the mark. Doesn't make sense.

Apparently Hermitage Park is near capacity and has limited playground facilities, so the point of crushing the former pupils of Craigentinny into that primary is what? Surely it would make more sense to make use of Craigentinnys' spacious grounds and move pupils into there rather than away. The school, which has stood firm since 1935, holds a gym hall, music hall, multi-purpose hall, library and resource and parents room so why deprive the children of this and instead force them into a less ample address? Doesn't make sense.

The fact that Craigentinny has one of the largest playgrounds in Edinbugh however makes perfect sense as to why the council intends its' closure. They of course want the land. History being sold for flats perhaps. As if there isn't enough protruding flats occurring throughout the area. The area of Craigentinny I do believe is going down in the world of late, and to be rid of a school and have council houses...deprived will not be the word to descibe such a place. It is not fair on the current residents and parents who have inhabited there for a large part of their lives. If the closure goes ahead, this council has absolutely no right to comp

Oh and #104 I live in the catchment area, i'm not talking about being driven out of catchment areas. I'm saying that my family could have sent me elsewhere but thought Drummond, rightly,was best. Get a grip.

Another thing I would like to say. Have the council taken into account the rising number of immigrants coming into our schools? There were (to my knowledge) at least 2 children in nursery school who required additional teachers as they were not English speaking. The Council should give education the highest priority, the children are the ones who have the potential to lead this country.
I am seriously thinking of getting the HEll out of this city and this country. What does it take to get the politicians to sit up and take notice?
Oh, I know! AN ELECTION!!!!

Surely this is a COUNCIL decision. SNP need to step in now to ensure these decisions DO NOT go ahead. or are their pockets just getting lined as well? Strange how most of the Edinburgh primary schools earmarked for closure are on prime propery development land.
Close down the schools, make the money available for the Trams, sell the sites to the YUPPIES - as long as you dont need to get a tram to another school, a hospital or anywhere meaningful, everything will be okay.
Politicians wonder why people dont bother voting any more - this is a prime example.

This whole school closure program is just mad....
There are very good schools, in old solid buildings, which are earmarked for closing.
It's a total disgrace......!!!!!!!!!
But then it's perfectly ok to be spending hundreds of Millions £ on a useless tram system, which those effected by all the school closures , won't have any benefit from.
This whole thing is all very short sighted and just shouldn't be allowed!
I just can not see, how they can make out, that this would actually benefit the kids.....
When they managed to push through to amalgamate the Currie primary's, despite their school roles were over 80%, by just 1 single vote, it caused major chaos,as 1 of the primary's had to get extentions build, which are now well late, which has caused major disruption to puplis and now a wonderful ,historical old building be sold off to developers to do with what ever...., but then it's ok [in Labour /Lib /dem eyes] to get as much as possible into PPP, which will cost the next generation millions....

Ever thought, why this short fall is?
Those PPP schools [etc] are charging what ever they like for just very small jobs, as they are privately owned, they don't need to go for the best quote, as council owned buildings have to do.

The "Bean Counters" strike again.

I would call for special audit of the council accounts is required before any of this monsterous plan is put into effect. A full moritorium on all external consultants as of now. It is quite feasible to find accountancy mistakes. Pity to demolish a school because some clown as put a decimal point in the wrong place. I have known staff to be layed off due to short term accountancy errors. Think and check again Mr Bean Counter.

A careful evaluation of benefits of the contribution which these nurseries, schools and community centres have in the area in which they reside.

Maybe the councillors can only see the £££££££££ they would make by selling of the high value real estate to housing developers at approximately £2,000,000 per acres. In doing that devalue the surrounding property by removing a community asset - the local school.

AND

The outrages decision to make this all happen in 8-9 months shown an utter disregard for the -

- effect this will have on the pupils
-- uncertainty for where they are going !
-- disruption it will cause to pupils education
-- fear that they will be split up from friends

- effects this will have on staff.
-- job insecurity , stress , health.
-- workload , extra planning meetings (if any)
-- feeling of their work being devalued.

And it has been said that this plan has NOT been link to any of the school rebuilding program.

Councillors ,THINK VERY CAREFUL AGAIN

Once you have demolished the facility and sold the land and houses have been built it is too late then discover the decimal point was in the wrong place. You can not reinstate either the building or staff and the trust of the parents.

These schools and centres belong to the people. They are community property not some corporate asset that can be bought and sold at the whim of some 'BEAN COUNTER'

There are hundreds of children in Edinburgh for whom the council should be providing places - except that they are going to private schools. And is it any wonder that parents who can manage to scrape the fees together do this, with the continual threats of cutbacks to state schools in Edinburgh?

And this current round of proposed closures will probably convince even more parents to go private.

Aitken really takes the biscuit. It was his administration that drew up the original plans and had a hand in these ones as well only to put them on the back burner until after the elections. At least be honest Aitken instead of saying whatever it takes to get back into power.

The city needs to close schools - a budget deficit of ten million can't go on. It would mean poorer quality education in all schools. However the plans to move pupils into schools already bursting at the seams is ludicrous. They need to get that part of it right or this will just be a recipe for disaster.

well here we go,this seems to be the start of things to come with both the snp and liberals,lets first off all blame labour then lets get stuck into the people of edinburgh by closing schools, then lets destroy the communities within edinburgh,then lets attack front line services by making cut backs need i go on,
edinburgh is one of the best cities in the world ,this sort of attitude can only cause damage its reputation

I'm a 3rd Year at Drummond.

There's been alot of changes there in the past few years, it was refurbished a while ago, and now under the new head's reign has been changed quite alot. So much that there's now over 500 students there, which as people have said before is higher than it's ever been.

It's not the biggest school, some people like smaller schools you know you're way around and you know most people in your year. Anyway Drummond isn't empty, or anything; where are they getting this info? So whys it even on the list?

If it's because it's meant to be doing bad it isn't. Loads of people passed there exams last year, some of them doing Standard Grade exams a year early.

If this is the start of the SNP/LD running the Country it just proves there no better than Labour or the Tories.

Was all the money that's been put into this school, for all it's refurbishments and changes going to waste?

And I'm right up ther with Sarah, Katie and Ali. Do need to close the school when there's no reasonable explenation.

Also closing down the schools will enevitably have all those teachers sacked. which won't do anything to help the economy.

I'm a 3rd Year at Drummond.

There's been alot of changes there in the past few years, it was refurbished a while ago, and now under the new head's reign has been changed quite alot. So much that there's now over 500 students there, which as people have said before is higher than it's ever been.

It's not the biggest school, some people like smaller schools you know you're way around and you know most people in your year. Anyway Drummond isn't empty, or anything; where are they getting this info? So whys it even on the list?

If it's because it's meant to be doing bad it isn't. Loads of people passed there exams last year, some of them doing Standard Grade exams a year early.

If this is the start of the SNP/LD running Scotland it just proves there no better than Labour or the Tories. And Who knows how much chaos it'd cause if we did go independant, with them incharage?

Was all the money that's been put into this school, for all it's refurbishments and changes going to waste?

And I'm right up ther with Sarah, Katie and Ali. Do need to close the school when there's no reasonable explenation.

Also closing down the schools will enevitably have all those teachers sacked. which won't do anything to help the economy.

i wrote #124, sorry i made a few errors.

I didnt read the article properally about the teachers getting sacked thing, but i suppose there will probably be some losing their jobs if they did go ahead.

And I'm not saying that they other school's should be shut down aswell, schools are doing better; it's not gonna help with students have to walk farther and have a smaller choice of schools to attend.

And about the SNP/LD thing i meant them running Edinburgh, not scotland. I guess i was too angered about the propasal and to get my opinion across that i forgot to check some of my facts, sorry.

But there's no reason to shut the schools, what's the country's future going to be like if it's future isn't educated properly? And wouldn't people get a better education, if they had a wider chocie of schools?

#104 I can't believe you told someone to grow up just because you were aware of their age, when their arguments were much more reasoned and articulate than yours..

I was out today on Princes Street about this, though the weather and a dodgy printer made it almost impossible to do anything. Picture should be in the EN on Monday though. Hopefully the start of a massive campaign.

It's absolutely insane that 1/4 of Edinburgh's children attend private schools - that's got to be a higher percentage than anywhere else in the UK. It's so worrying that privatisation and the ability to buy your way into 'better' education, healthcare, etc., are considered so normal in this city. If anyone wants an answer for low school rolls, look there.

@ #126 - We'd have a far worse education funding crisis if the 25% who currently opt out needed to be funded for state education.

Also @ #125 - This has very little to do with SNP/LD running Edinburgh. CEC Children and Families was gearing up for this under Labour control way before the elections in May.

Yes and the point is Labour was voted out. For some people, that will have been part of the reason. People didn't vote Lib Dem/SNP councillors in because they said "Vote for me and I'll close your child's school", and to do something like this that no one voted for so soon after the election especially is a major slap in the face

Well if we're going to be really accurate the change in council had far more to do with the voting system than widespread discontentment with Labour and their policies. Under the old FPTP system Labour would still be in a majority in the council I believe.
Either way none of the parties made any guarentees about school closures so it's a little naive to think this comes down to who we did or didn't vote for in May.

The counsil gives the reason for the proposed closure of Westfield Court Nursery School as:

"Based on the eighth floor of a high-rise building, the council has concerns about how quickly aid could be reached in an emergency."

How extraordinary! How long has it taken them to dream up that excuse? My daughter attended Westfield Court Nursey School. She is now 26 years old!! I reckon it must have been based there for at least 30 years.

Yeah, half the schools on the list seem to only need a bit of refurbishment. No point closing them down, to make save money. They would have enough in the first place; exept for the fact that their wasting it all on all the "Independant Scotland" stuff. If there in such financial turmoil, i wonder what it'll be like if Scotland goes Independant without the grants from the government and financial support of the rest of the UK.
So it's Independace over Education? There won't be any future politicans (or anyother jobs) if we lose the quality of our Education, and that one of the qualities is choice.

i went to lieth walk in the early fiftys once a week we would go to abbeyhill to learn to swim what will local schols do now

We've started a group to try and organise some kind of united front on school closures and let everyone know how to get involved.
If you're interested please add or ask your children to add
www.bebo.com/saveedinburghschools
Almost 90 members already!
Thanks.

#129, it's really frustrating when people call you naive because they disagree with you - patronising and offensive and based solely on the fact that you know my age, rather than what I'm actually saying. It IS stabbing voters in the back to allow them to vote you in to form a new council, no matter what the changes in the system are (I'm well aware of the changes and how it affected the elections, I was heavily involved in an election campaign), it is totally misleading to not mention what is possibly the most major thing the council will put through until the next election (when they think of more things to sneak in through the back door) in your election campaign as what you're going to do if elected, and then implement said major thing a mere matter of months after the election! It's not as if they even have the excuse of a couple of years having gone past and things having changed in the city - this is obviously something that was intended prior to the election.

Don't use this chance to patronise me again, before I say, I know - that's politics. Doesn't change the fact that it's completely unethical and should not be tolerated. WILL NOT be tolerated.

@ Sarah - I'm sorry as my intention was not to patronise you in any way but I still maintain that this would have gone ahead whatever the result of the May election.
As I mentioned before I am a teacher in Edinburgh who will be affected by these changes and I whilst wish you all the best in saving your school from closure I would though urge you to look at the current deficit and ask yourself what CEC should be doing to balance their books and deal with the falling rolls.