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That's University "Principal". If the Evening News needs proofreaders or editors who can spell, perhaps we might have a useful discussion. You have my email address.
It's superstitious nonsense, but even the superstitious are entitled to meet and share their views. Just as homosexuals are entitled to freedom of speech and freedom of association, so are idiots. It seems to me that the pickets are showing a worrying degree of intolerance.
'Orthodox Christian teaching on relationships and sex', which focus on the traditional biblical view that sex was intended by God within the life-long commitment of marriage.
Seems to me that as p**fs today can get married, oops I mean have a Civil Partnership Ceremony, then whats all the fuss about, how can that possibly make such a course homophobic ?.
Chancer, your unpleasant little remark makes little sense. The existence of Civil Partnership makes no difference to whether a group of irrationalists should be allowed to use public resources to promote their view that homosexuality is wrong.
BILL GATEs would be closer than BLOGs but I think I'll settle for BIGOTs.
They are perfectly within their religious rights to promote their view that homosexuality is wrong. Just as it's within the schools right to promote homosexuality (Section 28) and islamic women to wear viels.
It's called choice and freedom of speech.
I see the Scotsman has omitted the telling detail that this "Pure" course teaches that homosexuality can be cured - bigoted, damaging nonsense.
#10 Jane: They can teach whatever they want. There should be argument in universities, not censorship.
It would be most amusing if the LGBT (or whatever they're called this week) society put on a course purporting to cure christianity. That's the approach I'd take to that one.
I wish there was a cure for Chancer. Oh yes, there is - education.
And I thought this was a free country where everyone had the right to their own opinions, and not be indoctrinated by the trendy PC brigade Duncan. It always astounds me how in this country the PC brigade bend over backwards to accomodate and pay lip service to any minority group, while ignoring the majority.And as for my education well I suspect it was a hell of a lot better than some.
So much for freedom of speech .... the university gays seem to be demonstrating that only *their* speech can be free. As George Orwell put it - and we Christians face this all the time - "liberty is the right to be told things you don't want to hear".
The collective noun is a Camp of Homosexuals
12. A Friend of Fernando Poo - I agree. I think it would be better to insist on a parallel course on "curing Christianity".
And I think people should show up at the PURE course and ask questions the organisers won't want asked: like the fact that the Silver Ring Thing received one million dollars from the US government and collapsed - like all other "abstinence" programmes in the US - in utter failure. Like the fact that there's no clear condemnation in the New Testament of "homosexuality" (people who claim there is are usually depending on uncertain translations of a couple of verses in Paul's letters). Like the fact that the only condemnation in the Old Testament is a couple of purity laws in Leviticus, and people who want to uphold Leviticus for modern life ought to be demo'ing outside McDonalds with its cheeseburgers and baconburgers. Like the fact that there is a whole saga of gay love in the Old Testament, with the love of David and Jonathan.
I think that would be the best response to nonsense like this "Pure" course.
But, the Scotsman report isn't being very clear at all why sensible people would object to "Pure".
Why is it that if someone wants to promote gay issues it is allowed and to object is seen as the objector must have some sort of mental health problem? If someone believes it is wrong and lets not forget, millions do, then there must be something done to stop them promoting their view.Just because someone believes being gay is right does not make it so. It is tolerated, but not accepted by all.Minority groups (not just gays) are getting too much their own way. It's the tail wagging the dog as they keep getting their own way.
The public by and large have a live and let live view on life. It would appear that is not good enough for gays. It is one way traffic with them. Promote gay issues or shut up.NEWSFLASH-Not everyone agrees that being gay is acceptable.
sorry mates.....CU or Christian Union...says it allWho is really interested in what christians have to say..Look at the church attendances - pretty smallThey are christian..probably means they are also bigots.(ps...I dont like any religion and think followers of any religion should be banned from responsible jobs.. MSP's, MP's, police etc..
#15 Ross:
Don't worry. I have it on good authority that there are people over there who'll defend free speech against these idiots. One of them did ask "I wonder what the SRV would do if Muslims held a seminar on religious teachings on homosexuality?"
Jane: Good point regarding Leviticus. It would be a nice change to see some radical protests against the wearing of mixed fibres.
#15 Ross..Any comment on Madona having to drop the cross scene after pressure from Christians??? or is it only gays that are intolerant??? (also wonder how many gays are in that particular student union or if gays asked for pickets.)
Jane dear, this is the Evening News not the Scotchman. I'm only slumming it here to keep people right but a bit of effort would be appreciated.
Simple solution too this problem--hold the course in a Jewish Synagogue under the direction of a University professor---than if the gays & lesbians object--We can have the pleasure of calling them "Anti-Semetic"! as well as "anti-Christian" & as usual--liberals are only for "free Speech" when its Their's!!!
I guess if someone on The Universitys staff or a student wore a cross around their neck--all the gays & lesbians They pass would "gringe" & put their arms up "just like a vampire would"
#26 Stewart.What utter piffle! I understand that Jews, Muslims, Hindu, Sikhs, Agnostics and even some Gays manage to leave their mothers and have children without divine instruction from God. Why even animals manage to breed and I'm sure not many have read the bible.
If you're a bigot, then admit the fact, don't cloak it in your own personal take on Christianity. There are millions of Christians who abhor your views!
Perhaps you're a little 'tainted' yourself with a hint of gayness, possibly as gay as a window, and are trying to convince yourself otherwise. Why else would you care what consenting adults do, and have done from the beginning of time, in the privacy of their own home! You can't catch being gay. You either are or you're not so why worry about it. It's like being male or female or dead eventually - all things that we can do little about!
Stewart # 26. I'm just curious but have you any examples of homosexuals who have been cured who are mighty grateful that it has happened?
Can't we just lock all the Gay-Libbers, veilers, CUs (not to be confused with CU-Jimmys) etc. in a large hall, and let them out when they've sorted it out amonst themselves. But what would I know anyway, I'm married (to somebody of the opposite sex).
#28 Jim – you disappoint me – as usual, a pro-homosexual commentator resorting to personal attacks and suggesting your victim is a closet sodomite. You do yourself no favours.
Why not address the issues for a change? The issue being the brainwashing of the masses as per the recommendations via the link I gave.
Only mass brainwashing could have produced the acceptance of homosexuality to the extent we now see, and in little more than a generation.
Address that, please.
Yes, animals do manage to work out what life is about. Pity some humans are so preoccupied with their bodily desires they can’t see the wood for the trees.
Why am I a bigot (an automatic response, I’m sure, due to your programming)? Is this your reply to everything you disagree with, or just this subject? Are these homosexuals that object to the Christian Union’s course bigots, or not if they agree with you?
Can’t you see what I said in #26 is true? The “gay lobby” has to attack Christianity, because some of us will still fight for truth and family life and decency no matter what. If being reminded that they are sinning upsets them so much, it is hardly surprising they are on the warpath constantly and won't rest until we are all silenced. Well, it won’t work!
“There are millions of Christians who abhor your views!”
Probably. There are many Christians who never pick up a Bible. There are many so-called Christians who don’t care about what happens to the souls of sinners after this life. Some of the “Christians” I know walk past me in the street. I will seek and embrace the truth regardless.
“Why else would you care what consenting adults do”
Because I do care – about doing what’s right. It is not a matter of what goes on behind closed doors doesn’t affect us - this is a major misconception. Wickedness affects us all, whether hidden or not. Plus, they are now preparing a full-scale assault on our children. Report Unsuitable
Stewart # 30, I'm still waiting for examples of hugely relieved ex-homosexuals.And because you never answered my question here's another 3 to keep you occupied...Who are preparing a full scale assault on our children, of what nature is that assault and what is your evidence for this?
#31 I saw a documentary on this once, where ex-homosexuals were interviewed. Despite being a Christian and a believer in divine healing myself, I did note that none of the 2 or 3 who were interviewed claimed that they had completely lost all desire for homosexual relationships/sex. But two (IIRC) of them had married women and claimed to be happy in a loving marriage relationship.
Were dinosaurs homosexual, if they were do you want to prove it. What is the collective noun for homosexuals, well during the Viking era it was aaarrghhh! A high pitched scream followed by a groan and a sort of guttural rattle. Funnily enough often repeated by a father or mother who entertained their returning offspring without having a bit of warning. It does not matter, it is part and parcel of being a human being. Christ preached against it, however at that time the population of the world was quite small. Everything changes with time, personally now a days I would prefer a fine same sex couple living next door to me rather than scruffy git who brings six kids into the world with neither ability or inclination to look after them.As I have said, I do not get any sweeter as I get older.
Hello Julian #28 & 31 – You are in the States? I am not ignoring you, it’s only 9 o’clock in the morning. Check out this report from August - there are dozens of former homosexuals protesting the American Psychological Association http://narth.com/docs/koocher.html
Did you check the link to the Christian Institute? I have to dash, I’m out all day.
My mother made me a homosexual,and if I get some more pink wool she said she will make some more
I guess you dont have to be happy to be gay!
Oh puhlease sweeties. Don't make me come down there and spank you. You big sillies!
#30 Stewart. Methink Jim's right. I smell a distinct whiff of repressed sexuality - the man protests overmuch methinks!
As for use of the word decency. I see lots of hetrosexual decency leading to violence within families, abandoned abused children, single mothers struggling, sexual abuse, divorce and so on.
Your efforts and energy would be better spent healing all the 'decent' hetrosexual people who are not fit and proper people to be allowed near children - let alone have children of their own. Is it not the case that the least able people seem to have the greatest number of children and then require state support. (support subsidised by tax-payers from all sorts of sexual backgrounds!)Sort all these social hetrosexual problems out - the ones that affect children directly - before you claim moral superiority and cast opinions about the decency of other groups in society!
People in glass houses!
#30 Stewart. I suggested you might be as gay as a window - this implies you disdain gay sex because you are uncomfortable at being aroused by it. A closet sodomite - your words - is someone who has gay sex in secret and I did not accuse you of that!
Sinning and souls? You are quoting from a superstitious belief system with origins circa the time of the Romans or before! If such belief gives you comfort then well and good, but don't sit in judgement over others who may not share your superstition. By your rules you will be 'judged' over your own religeous conceit, intolerance and hatred.
I would like to comment on “Picket threat to 'anti-gay' course” (Fri 20 Oct 2006) So Students are threatening to picket “The Christian Union's (CU) Pure course looks at the 'Orthodox Christian teaching on relationships and sex', which focus on the traditional biblical view that sex was intended by God within the life-long commitment of marriage. “and not only this” but Activists have warned university chiefs it will do all they can to disrupt the course when it starts on Monday unless it is scrapped.” Then it is stated “Adam Knight, the President of Bisexual, Lesbian, Gay or Transgender Society (BLOGs) told the Student Association newspaper that society does not take the teachings of the Bible literally.”Since when does Mr Knight speak for the whole of Society and on basis does he make such an arrogant presumption? What makes him the arbiter of what is right or wrong? What about other peoples right of free speech? The freedom of Religion and thought? To be compounded by threats of disruption. If I remember my history right didn’t people in Brown Shirts do the same thing before the Second World War.? So the fascists are alive and well and in Edinburgh University. It would prove once and for all the only meetings approved of at Edinburgh University are the ones that toe the “Party” line so much for democracy and free speech.If the University gives way to Bullies and threats then my personal estimation of the University will fall showing that it doesn’t believe in Freedom of speech and perhaps not even in Academic Freedom neither.
PS. I have a wife and 3 kids. We have gay friends and they have been absolutely wonderful to our family through some tough times. You couldn't wish for better people as friends!
I will always support the right of free speech, even though I disapprove of the message. I also support the right of people to picket if they disapprove.
It's good that people are having a debate but there are more important things in life to worry about. The morality of war in Iraq for example.
Dave it is one thing to picket I have done that myself. However it is another story when you set out to disrupt. That isn't picketing that is simply wrong.
Alex # 38 – you utilise another ridiculous method of arguing, similar to Jim at #27, only you bring children abused by heterosexuals into the equation. That’s a very dishonest way to debate. I despise heterosexual sins just as much. Sin is sin and leads to destruction unless repentance and a change of heart occur. Do I sin? Only every day – but when I do I don’t expect people to tell me I’m doing fine: “carry on with it and be damned my good friend”.
Look at the books they want to dish out to primary school children – it is utterly disgusting. There is something very wrong with you if you think young children should be given a picture book where the story is about a boy whose mum and dad divorce so that dad can move in with his boyfriend Frank (complete with picture of dad and Frank in bed together). See it on the Christian Institute’s website I have already linked to.
No normal human being sits back and lets this happen. You should be angry as hell.
As for repressed sexuality on my part, I also condemn abortion, but I don’t secretly desire to do it. I condemn the teachings of Islam, but I have no wish to grow a long beard and pray towards Mecca 5 times a day.
More false arguments – anything to avoid answering the questions and facing the truth you fear. It’s usually better to face your fears in the long run.
At least Julian at #31 asked sensible questions, and is hopefully willing to use his own mental faculties and strength of character to check my claims and work it out for himself without simply spouting the same old ignorant clichés.
Stick to the subject please.
Sorry if I seem brusque, but my country is being destroyed.
For anyone who still cannot work it out, I do NOT hate homosexuals. I abhor the social engineers who expect us all to bend over backwards to ignore our consciences and replace what God has given with whatever they want us to accept as “gospel”. Most of these social engineers couldn’t care less what “rights” homosexuals or anyone else get, but they do like stirring up trouble and causing division. That’s how they rule. They are the ones who hate.
#25 Fox
Just for your information, I happen to be a Gay Catholic who goes to mass on a sunday, reads and even sings in the choir. Heck, I even wear my gold cross and chain from time to time. Guess what: I STILL HAVENT MELTED INTO OBLIVIAN like a vampire. I find it offensive that being gay excludes you from being a christian
#40: John.
I'd just like to clarify a few things as I sat on the SRC committee who passed the motion that the scotsman has so inaccuratly described.
I find it a bit unfair of you that you label Adam Knight as speaking for the whole of soceity when in fact there are many other people on this forum who have been excellent at tarring everyone with the one brush, see post 25 for example and my subsequent reply
I am particularly annoyed, upset and disgraced at the following statement you made: "If I remember my history right didn’t people in Brown Shirts do the same thing before the Second World War.? So the fascists are alive and well and in Edinburgh University."
In this you brandish Adam and everyone else as fascists. Not only that but you compare us to the people who committed some of the worst crimes against humanity ever, crimes, which I might add, were committed not only against people of the Jewish Faith, but also gypsies and GAY PEOPLE. Surely Adam, as president of the soceity which aims to improve the life of LGBT people in edinburgh couldn't possibly be a fascist brown shirt with the aim of torturing other gay people??
I think it is very unfair to the memory of the many thousands of gay people who suffered at the hands of the brownshirts and other nazi groups and I would urge you to retract that statement and appologise.
You may rembember your history, but I fear you are suffering from selective memory.
And as for
"It would prove once and for all the only meetings approved of at Edinburgh University are the ones that toe the “Party” line so much for democracy and free speech",
may i just cure your ignorance of the SRC?? ALL SRC members are democratically elected by the STUDENTS of edinburgh university to represent them. (Hence the name student's representative council). Those who sit on the SRC come from a wide range of backgrounds, not only interms of skin colour, religion and nat
Julian #31 – you asked three questions.
“Who are preparing a full scale assault on our children, of what nature is that assault and what is your evidence for this?”
What has to be investigated is who controls the governments of the world. It is a huge area for study, but involves various occult organisations. The last US election between Bush and Kerry shows the level of control by Luciferian cults (generally notable by their love of homosexuality and paedophilia). The cult to which they belong, Skull and Bones, admits just 15 new members a year, and distant? cousins George W. Bush and John Kerry are both members.
Hardly a genuine choice for Americans, or the rest of the world. Bush senior is also a member of S&B. The US administration is akin to a monarchy or a family business like North Korea – just not so nasty - yet.
Politics in the West is a false left-right paradigm that is controlled by elite families like the Rothschilds, that also control the world’s banking, and through organisations like the Bilderberg Group, have a large hand in who becomes a president or prime minister. This façade of “democracy” keeps the population happy that there is a real choice.
In the case of these books for UK schools, the UK Government, like all others in the West, has succumbed to the “PC madness” so beloved of the occultists. The Luciferians demand the promotion of sex to try and divert people from the truth of the gospel and so steal souls for their master, Satan. They are behind feminism and “gay rights” to weaken the male role and weaken the family, as they know this is the basic building block of a strong society. They want weak societies that they can control. They own the media, so can dumb down the population at will. Consider all the ridiculously weak and stupid male characters in television advertisements.
They meet at (no longer so) secret locations like Bohemian Grove in California where they engage in Luciferian ceremon
What a load of entire propaganda! This thread is absolutely abhorant both to christians and homosexuals. #48: To say that feminism is wrong and weakening the family is total garbage and to say that homosexuality is weakening society is just rubbish. Should we go back to that days when woman spent all their time in the kitchen and weren't allowed to vote? No, i doubt anyone would support this, apart from extreme right wing activists. Religion is about LIFE, about living together in peace not about hate and intolerance. It can be amazing when used for good but digusting when used (like #46) for hatred. To quote my gran - 'It is not my right to judge as a Christian, in my religion God will do that for us'. Therefore, i can only say if homosexuality, feminism and other 'left wing movements' are 'against the teachings of god' they will be judged by him and him alone. It is not ur right to preach about whether they are right or wrong, u my friend are the biggest sinner on this site - u are showing hate for ur fellow kind. Finally, I believe it is the universitie's decision to decide whether this group is preaching hate or simply expressing a point of view and therefore, like any organisation should have the freedom to decide whether it is 'educational' to take place on their grounds - they can only act in the majority interest of its students which, as shown by the SRU, is not in favour of a class which is aimed at curing homosexuality.
Stephen #46---Really!---when was the last time You went too "Confession"! Or received The Body & Blood Of Our or should I say "Your" Lord in Communion!I can give two "Didily Quats" whether Your Gay, Straight or whatever!But too call Yourself Christian--Please!!!You are what The Church has called a "Cafeteria Christian"--You pick & choose what teaching You want too believe & which one You do not.Singing in The Choir does not make You a Christian Bud! it just says You can sing.
#52 Fox, the definition of a christian is someone who believes in Jesus Christ. I happen to be someone who believes in Jesus Christ. The last time I recieved "my Lord in communion", as you so put it, was last sunday. The next time i'll recieve it is in a little under 2 hours time. I am perfectly within my rights to call myself a christian, and a practicing one at that. Our priest at the Uni of Ed has said that gay people, or indeed those who have had sex outside marriage, are no more sinful than anyone else. All christians are sinful. The only person ever to be without sin was Jesus.
The correct term your looking for by the way is A lá Carte Catholic. And if I were to accept what you were saying, then i would also have to believe that ANY person who EVER used contraception is not a christian.
Stephen #53 - If you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ then I love you as a brother.
Because I love you as a brother, I have to tell you that no unclean thing can enter Heaven. Jesus forgives, but says “sin no more”.
If you believe that sodomy is OK, I would like to know what sins you think caused the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and why the world was so wicked, that God destroyed all bar eight souls in the Flood. Murder and adultery, pride and greed, yes, but more I think. Lasciviousness is also a sin that has to be repented of.
And more importantly for all of us – what sins are hastening Armageddon.
If people at your church allow you to take Communion, then sorry, but you need to find another church.
There is an important aspect to being a Christian, and that is repentance.
“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
This line from verse 3 of Luke 13 is very interesting as it is repeated again exactly in verse 5. That’s how important repentance is. The Catholic Church is big on confession, and not so hot on genuine repentance, i.e. being so repentant that the sin being repented of actually ceases. That’s real repentance, and what Jesus requires. A church that does not preach this message is not Christian and cannot lead you to safety through Christ.
The road is narrow that leads to eternal life. Please do not seek advice from your priest at the Uni because he clearly has no idea what is required for Eternal Life. (Why is he at such odds with the pope?)
Eternal Life should be everyone’s goal, because the alternative is eternal misery and suffering, or burning with “unquenchable fire”.
A search for “repent” in the Bible brings up 105 results http://bibleresources.bible.com/keywordsearchresults.php?...
Here is another verse:
“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.” Acts 3:19
Notice the order here. First repent, then be converted, and notice how that is required for the Lord’s work on the Cross to erase your sins. Remember even Lucifer believes in Christ – well he knows it for a fact, that’s why he is battling so hard for the souls of men right now as his time is very short. That’s why his minions in secret societies, Governments, education and the media are saying homosexual acts are now (suddenly) OK.
Notice how sudden it has been – in a little over a generation they have infiltrated to promote the idea that one’s sexuality is the most important thing - it could be said to be idolatry which is also a sin – all-in-all, proof that Satan knows the end for him is nigh, and wants you. Please, please understand what is going on in the world. My advice to you is this. Repent of your sins; turn to Christ with full purpose of heart, and enjoy a better life aspiring to follow His perfect ways.
“If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.” Mark 9:23
Steven---You did not mention--"Going To Confession" in Your reply---so You received "Our Lord" in the state of 'Mortal Sin".Because You did not say You stopped Your Gay lifestyle before receiving.There are plenty of "Rouge" Priests who do not care about the "Rules" or church "Doctrine" in regards too receiving Communion. Most of these are in the UK & France & other EU countries.Our Lord & all Christians forgive any Sin or Lifestyle--but only when that person confesses & amends His or her life.There are alot of straight catholics who follow Your same path---picking & choosing what church doctrine too believe & what not too--such as abortion & contraception---& they too continue too receive are lord while in the state of Mortal Sin.There are may Catholic Gay & Lesbian men & women who do go too confession & amend their lives--by not living the gay lifestyle---.
Steven--Also---just for Your own edification, the correct term is "Cafeteria Catholic" as told in a letter too The People by Pope John Paul II.In it He said, quote " Being Pro-Choice & Pro-Abortion Are One & The Same, & Cannot Be Seperated".
Stewart, you said to Stephen "I have to tell you that no unclean thing can enter Heaven."
You should read Chapter 10 of Acts of the Apostles, and remind yourself that St Peter himself said "God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean." Do you think yourself better than St Peter, more enlightened than him, that you dare to call a fellow-Christian an "unclean thing"?
"I would like to know what sins you think caused the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah"
Failure in hospitality: lack of kindness to strangers and people different from you. Again, your besetting sin, evidently.
Rather than set yourself up as a judge of other people's sinfulness, why not concern yourself with repenting and amending your own sins - the pride that leads you to think you know better than St Peter, the lack of kindness that leads you to call a fellow-Christian an "unclean thing" - and leave other people's relationship with God to God, rather than thinking it's for *you* to judge and lecture.
Jane #58 – Thank you for your input. I have re-read what Peter says, and it is a matter of context, and the context is different to that which you have stated.
The whole verse is “And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.”
It refers to the fact that no longer should a Jew regard a Gentile as unclean, it does NOT refer to the unrepentant sinner! I don’t know better than St. Peter, I just understand what he means.
I would refer you to Galatians chapter 5 to prove my point –19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. It is my DUTY to judge in righteousness to save a soul from the clutches of Hell.
I don’t know what gospel you believe in that states otherwise. We will be judged as we judge, and so I trust that people will bring to remembrance my own sins that need attention. What else do we do? Let sin flourish? That’s what Satan wants you to believe (see verse 20, above, for heresies).
“He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.” (John 12:25)
The prize is eternal life.
To warn Stephen what the Bible says is an act of kindness. This might be th
Stewart: "It refers to the fact that no longer should a Jew regard a Gentile as unclean, it does NOT refer to the unrepentant sinner!"
Then shouldn't you repent your sins of pride and arrogance before presuming to judge anyone else's?
Matthew, chapter 7: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. "
You arrogantly assume that you know Stephen is an unrepetent sinner, and take it upon yourself to do what St Peter was warned by God not to do: call him unclean.
To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
You shouldn't assume that Christianity exists for you to police the behaviour of others. You are responsible for your own behaviour: you are not required to setting yourself up as a Pharisee to tell others that they are unrepentent sinners w
Both groups should be allowed their views. I would rather the CU was allowed to spout its view, even if some of it revolves around curing people. Only then will we see their true colours.
Also if memory serves it was an Edinburgh University professor who was at the forefront of curing gays in the 60's, involving various treatments which are not even allowed in Guantanemo.
Comparatively speaking curing is better than executing. Which as odd as it sounds was an issue mentioned in recent years by one Polish Catholic Bishop as a way which was perhaps not that bad after all.
#47 Stephen: It's good to see someone at least associated with the SRC popping their head in. I note though that you've taken all the easy meat and ignored the key question: why are the SRC trying to suppress a lecture rather than argue with the points with which they disagree?
No argument that the SRC are elected, but clearly this somehow hasn't made them wise enough to avoid bullying and censorship.
#62: To be perfectly honest I'd say the reason the approach that was taken was taken is because everyone agreed that running pure on campus was a bad thing. No one challenged the motion because they all agreed with it. The president condemned the course and we also know that it violates our Equal Opportunities policies.
I don't understand how you think we're bullying people. The CU have every right to bring a counter motion up through the welfare committee and to the SRC. We're a democratically elected structure and everything we do is done democratically. If someone had challenged the motion, we'd have debated it and voted on it. The point is, no one there challenged it because they agreed with it.
Bullying implies the SRC is throwing its weight around. We're not, we're simply passing a motion that was brought up through the relevant structures.
The motion was based on the fact that the SRC believes homophobia is wrong and that as the student's elected representatives, we have to stand up for those students who are gay by challenging homophobia. We haven't actually censored anything, as, in so far as i'm aware, it isn't within our power to stop a soceity from doing something unless a complaint is made, and even then the complaint would go to the societies executive, not the SRC.
What this motion does is mandate the president of EUSA to publically condemn pure and all homophobia and to lobby the CU and other Univeristy authorities to campaign to get the course stopped. It also mandates us to support a peaceful picket outside pure meetings untill they are stopped and to run a Stamp out homophobia campaign.
It basically allows the SRC to show publically that they disagree with the course based on the fact that it is homophobic as it attempts to heal and repress homosexuality. Homophobia is against EUSA's equal opportunities policy and the policy also states that elected officers of the SRC are reminded of their obligation to adhe
Stephen on the contrary my memory isn’t selective. 1) I referred to the interwar period 2) the brown Shirts disrupted their opponents meetings. That is what was reported was going to happen 3) I was talking about the denial of other people’s rights of free speech. So you disagree with them fine but who gives you the right or anybody the right to disrupt or threaten to disrupt anyone one’s meetings. This is supposed to be a free and democratic Society or am I wrong. Why don’t you prove me wrong by allowing them to have their meeting or are you and your committee afraid?
Scott #51 – When I said that Feminism was created by Satanists to weaken families, I was referring to the movement that mushroomed in the 1960’s and has plagued us since, that has convinced millions of women that godly ideals like chastity and modesty are no longer valid, and that getting drunk is OK, and swearing like savages is the way to go, and that page 3 girls and strippers are liberated and independent, rather than being manipulated and controlled.
None of my female relatives or their friends were chained to the kitchen sink in the 1960's but now most of the ones who survive are chained to alcohol (because women can get plastered now), addicted to TV and shopping (because life has become so shallow), on prescription drugs for things like their nerves.
Women’s Lib?
The older ones I remember that were born in the early part of the century (sometimes we are fortunate still to be able to meet them - maybe at church) were and still are feisty and fiercely independent and never had an antidepressant in their lives. They brought up families and had jobs. They were the liberated ones because they were young in a more moral and godly society. Sin is like dragging chains around – they had fewer in the old days.
Jane #60 – I am not intending to be arrogant, I’m just stating facts and am not mincing my words in the process because souls are at stake. Stephen has shown he is unrepentant by partaking in Communion and denying he has a problem that will result in him losing his soul.
Imagine if one of the apostles was missing, and one of the others said that he was having sex with his boyfriend. When the fellow returned, what do you think Jesus would say to him.
a) I hope you were sensible and practiced “safer sex”,orb) You have to control your carnal desires, but you are forgiven, go and sin no more.
It really is that simple. More difficult in practice perhaps, but God really does heal and change really is happening to many homosexuals http://narth.com/docs/koocher.html
To reiterate, St. Peter said that Gentiles were no longer to be seen as unclean. Jews and Gentiles can still be unclean through their sins. I showed you that in Galatians 5:19 “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, UNCLEANNESS, lasciviousness…”
I am not exalting myself above anyone. Why do you have a problem with the Biblical principal of edification? What separates us from God?
SIN
Why are we meant to confess our sins? So we can be forgiven. Why are we meant to renounce our sin? So we can enter the presence of God. Isn’t a belief in Jesus enough? We have to have faith in Him to gain eternal life, but we have to “sin no more” (John 5:14) “Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, LEST A WORSE THING COME UNTO THEE.”
I’m not making things up when I say that unrepentant sinners who do not accept Christ will go to Hell – the Bible says it. Political Correctness is the Devil’s tool. Rejoice in the truth instead.
Yes, I am responsible for my own actions, but Jesus said to go into the world and convert people. To be converted means ditching sin
OK this is getting weird. Every time I make a light hearted comment on any article that includes the word homosexual it get's pulled (ooer missus). What in the name of Norton is going on?
Stewart, you asked: "Imagine if one of the apostles was missing, and one of the others said that he was having sex with his boyfriend. When the fellow returned, what do you think Jesus would say to him."
I think Jesus probably said: "Why didn't you bring your friend Bartholomew back with you, Phillip?" and sent Phillip back to fetch Bartholomew.
"I am not exalting myself above anyone"
Then you have deluded yourself: your comments on this thread are arrogant and full of self-love.
Jane #68 - That is about the most derogatory comment about our Saviour and his apostles I have ever come across.
You have already demonstrated that you don’t understand scripture, now you are becoming blasphemous.
I don’t know what your motives are for posting here, but mine are to encourage people to find healing and redemption through Jesus Christ before it is too late and all they have for eternity is unimaginable torment.
Here we go again Stewart eh, you really are a man who walks his own path, much of it built by yourself by the sounds of it. I find it sad that you are not only brainwashed to this extent but seem to be on some sort of 'Stewart Crusade' to take your views just that little bit further. Jane is right, you sound like some kind of Evangelical die-hard, pious, pompous and incredibly arrogant in your 'souls at stake' campaign. I dont think there is any sequince lurking in your cupboard Stewart but perhaps an oft fondled cassock complete with dented bible.
There is still hope, even for you Doreen. The clock ticks ever onwards towards the end of time. One day it will be the last day.
I think you are probably a nice person, despite the name-calling (I reject pompous and arrogant but the others are a compliment!), and I very much hope we can meet in paradise.
You say I have been brainwashed. Answer me this please Doreen, considering the massive campaign against Christianity by media, Government and big business, how do you know what is true and what has been planted in your brain by the unscrupulous media?
Most of the world’s main TV stations, film studios, music companies, newspapers and magazines are owned by very few people – all exceedingly wealthy (As “the love of money is the root of all evil” it is not surprising they attack Christianity, is it?).
Most of the others are state-controlled. The BBC has just admitted being anti-Christian as this article from the weekend proves. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news....
Why do you think they do that, and do you like being brainwashed, because that’s what the BBC is doing to you.
The Government is controlled and the media is controlled - by occultists who hate Christianity.
When will you believe me that I am telling you the truth?
It is not my “souls at stake” campaign, it is a fact of life – everyone’s soul is at stake. You are not in this world by accident. We do not live through thousands of moral tests in our lives for no purpose. This life really is for sorting the wheat from the chaff, or the wheat from the tares. The tares and the chaff get discarded.
The moral of the story – make sure you the wheat.
The moral of the story – make sure you are the wheat. (I should have said)
Stewart, "derogatory" is in the eye of the beholder. Phillip and Bartholomew were the two apostles linked as a pair (like the gay saints Serge and Bacchus) at the Greek Orthodox "friendship ceremonies" for solemnising same-sex couples relationships in a similiar form to marriage.
I do not find it in the least derogatory to suppose that Phillip and Bartholomew were lovers - an idea *you yourself* were the first to propose - nor that Jesus's response to their pairing would be one of love and acceptance, the message he preached and lived by.
I'm certain that God can find a place in heaven even for people like you: what concerns me is that you would prefer Hell to a Heaven where you discover that, far from God hating what you hate, God sees your hatred as deserving of forgiveness, but love as deserving of celebration.
There is no god there is no devil or satan, whatever, there is no paradise in the hereafter or the fires of hell. All religions, all holy books are dangerous, damaging, stupid and oppressive. We are born and we die, what we do with our lives inbetween should be the result of compassion, humanity and love. Not because we are blackmailed into behaving. The human race is a war mongering terrorist that is in the process of scarring this beautiful planet. Until we wake up and realise that we are 'god' and have the ability to change and mature, the world will continue to suffer. However I fear that may never happen.
Have you ever allowed yourself to ponder the thought that perhaps the god you believe in does not exist, that it was all down to fear, superstition, manipulation and guilt? I believe that an intelligent person would do that, if so I would like to know what your feelings were at that particular time.
By the way I dont have a TV and only listen to Gardeners Question Time. I made up my mind a long time ago.
If the Greek Orthodox Church solemnises same-sex unions, then this sort of thing was prophesied, as follows, and also explains the position that members of the Student Representative Council (SRC) find themselves in.
2 Peter 3 -3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
Jude 1 -18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
I did not suppose for a second that two apostles were an “item”. That flies in the face of everything the Bible teaches. I merely proposed it to try and help you see what a ridiculous notion it is. I still hope you will when you consider the plethora of scripture that warns against lust – sex is to be confined to a man and woman who are married, and any other arrangement outside of this is lust and scripture constantly condemns it, because scripture is there to lead people out of danger and into Life with God.
Your last paragraph also contains a serious inaccuracy. I do not hate (see my comment #45). It is out of love that I warn people of the consequences of sin. I cannot stress that enough. If you loved God and His children, you would support me in that quest.
Doreen, if you believe Darwinists that the human race has been around for millions of years, how long do you expect it to take before we “have the ability to change and mature”?
The biggest warmongers and murderers in history were atheists. Mao Zedong and Stalin had tens of millions killed. They also sought to eradicate religion. Today the Communist Chinese still persecute Christians.
The Soviet Union only lasted a few decades and the people lived in misery and fear.
Is this better than say, how the Amish live?
Your summary of the human race is depressing. Don’t worry though, the scriptures tell us loud and clear that the world will be destroyed and those "warmongering terrorists" will get what they deserve, as will you and I. Funny how all the talk is about the end of the world, isn’t it? Terrorists with nukes (Americans with nukes), biological weapons, global warming, rogue asteroids ready to wipe out all life, oil about to run out (another lie), overpopulation (an exaggeration to promote eugenics).
Of course I have considered that I am mistaken in my faith, but every time, I have to come back to the same position because I realise that it is true after all. I search the scriptures (as you are aware), I pray, I study life, history, science that all point to the same conclusion. I know, like I know the sun rises in the morning. I know, because I am not here due to an impossible series of freak biological accidents that began in a warm muddy swamp billions of years ago.
I know because “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me” John 10:27.
…continued
You might not believe in Satan, but the people who control the planet through their cults do. These are the same people who want to wipe out Christianity (like Mao and Stalin), because it stands in the way of total occult control.
I commend you on not watching the telly. I no longer watch mine. Radio 4 is a part of the now proven anti-Christian BBC of course, so be careful.
The newspapers are highly controlled as well. They don’t give out really damaging things, like the serious inconsistencies in terror attacks that are linked to governments. MI5 makes sure of that!
So, what do you think about all our countrymen and women being conditioned by the BBC, now that this report has been leaked for all to see and wonder at?
I see the BBC intends to spend millions on a new channel directed at Iran. Why would they do that?
Once you realise that brainwashing is so rife, and that everything is so controlled, you get a better perspective. Why do you think our Government is so keen to get women into work and get the toddlers into nursery? To condition them as early as possible, of course. Everyone knows that a toddler is best looked after by its family. Recent studies prove it if common sense couldn’t. The problem for the occult leaders is that Christian parents will disseminate their knowledge and values to their children, so they have to be sent off as young as possible to receive diversity training instead.
Very basic stuff, really. What’s amazing is how they are getting away with it. That’s why the controlled media has to try and make us as dumb as dirt.
I don’t know how you manage to get such long posts out of me. This information needs to get out though.
Stewart I take my hat off to you (although I still dont agree with you) I cannot debate your outlandish conspiracy theories as I do not have any knowledge in that field. However I would seriously question the amount of people killed by the commies as opposed to those who have died, are dying right now, and will die tomorrow in the name of religion. As far as toddlers and nursery are concerned, women are damned if they do and damned if they dont. Incidentally the word 'Disseminate' is akin to 'brainwash' as far as I am concerned, as in 'spreading the word'. Children should not be indoctrinated but should be able to make up their own minds. I thought the Amish turned their backs on their children if they decided to leave their community? Come to think of it, a lot of religious communities do this.
" I do not hate "
You can tell yourself that all you like. But so long as you keep calling love "sin", and obsessing yourself with policing other people's behaviour, setting yourself up as a superior with the right to judge, you won't convince anyone else.
By the way, according to <I>my</I> Bible, there's a lot more in it about the evils of poverty and being cruel to people than there is about the evils of lust. ;-)
Jane, do you really think I would be spending all this time trying to spread the truth because I hate people? I could be working extra hours and making more money instead of doing this. Now get real.
Love is never sin – lust is. What’s wrong that you cannot tell the difference?
Yet again your lack of knowledge of scripture is leading you astray. There are so many warnings about lust and how it corrupts and leads souls astray that I wouldn’t know where to find the time to list them all.
By your way of reckoning, adultery, incest, polygamy, paedophilia and bestiality can be justified if you love the object(s) of your desire.
Crackpot and dangerous stuff.
Poverty is not a sin in itself. Keeping someone in poverty by underpaying them, for example, may be. The Bible instructs us to help the poor and warn the sinners -
“Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?” (James 2:5)
Let me make the lust argument easier to understand with this oft-quoted scripture -“God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” (Romans 1:26-27)
Jane – why aren’t you as concerned with the “recompense” for homosexual activity as I am??
I may not be able to convince you Jane, but some people will understand what I am saying and want to know the joy of godliness and yearn to be saved from eternal damnation.
Doreen, this article lists the estimated number of people killed by Communist regimes:http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/bates/050510
You wonder how many people are dying right now because of religion. I do not speak for a) other religions and b) people who have misused Christianity for their own ends while ignoring what the core values are. Political leaders want power, and they saw what power religious leaders had, especially in the past, and wanted it for themselves, so you ended up with ungodly men assuming the role of religious leaders.
Who is dying “right now” because of religion? Blair and Bush are waging war because they are employees of the occultists, while they pretend to be Christians (for whatever reason). I’ve already said that Bush is a member of the Luciferian society “Skull and Bones” (not a conspiracy – both him and John Kerry have been interviewed on TV about it and refused to comment because it is secret.)
I’ll tell you who IS being killed because of religion – Christians! Atheist Governments like China and Eritrea are persecuting horrendously, and some Muslim countries make it a capital offence to convert from Islam to Christianity, and homosexuals in some Muslim countries are killed.
None of this killing is being done by genuine Christians because we love our neighbours as ourselves. People like me are not responsible for mass murder and illicit warmongering.
“Children should not be indoctrinated but should be able to make up their own minds.” But children are being indoctrinated, by the BBC and practically everywhere else. Parents sit their toddlers in front of the telly, and pack them off to school to be brainwashed, then wonder why they get wacky ideas. Good Christian parents give their children an antidote. That’s love, not indoctrination. The large number of children who grow up and fall by the wayside proves that the streng
THUMP!!!!!......that was just me kicking the chair away.
creak....creak.....creak...........
Stewart: "Jane, do you really think I would be spending all this time trying to spread the truth because I hate people?"
Why would you be spending all this time being hateful and objectionable and cruel if *not* because you are filled with hate?
"Yet again your lack of knowledge of scripture is leading you astray. "
You cite Romans 1:26-27 (which two verses in that one letter by Paul is literally the <B>only</B> place in the entire Bible where relations between same-sex couples are explicitly condemned).
The word Paul used which is translated in the version you quote as "nature" was the Greek word "phooska" and "against nature" was, in the original Greek, "para physin". Paul used "para physin" (contra naturam, in Latin) again in Romans, 11:24, to describe God's actions in grafting Gentiles (the wild olive branches) on to the "good" olive tree of the early Church. "Phooska" means just what "natural" means today: produced by nature, innate/natural behaviour.
What the verses suggest is a condemnation of people turning against what is natural behaviour for them. For a heterosexual man to have sex with another man would be "against nature": but for a gay or bisexual man to have sex with another man would be "phooska". Likewise for a heterosexual woman to have sex with another woman, where it would be normal and natural for a lesbian or bisexual woman to do so.
Further, in the context of Chapter 1 of Romans, the letter is clearly about people who "when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God or given thanks". To use those two verses to condemn fellow Christians is to make a mockery of their intent: they were directed against non-Christians.
It seems to me that I know the Bible better than you do: you don't appear to be aware of the words originally used, nor do you seem to b
Jane, where do you get your information from?
“two verses in that one letter by Paul is literally the <B>only</B> place in the entire Bible where relations between same-sex couples are explicitly condemned”
Not so at all – check here for several more (“To know” (Hebrew “yadah”) is used many times in Scripture to refer to sexual activity.) http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Rom/1/26.html
You spoiled your argument by saying, “What the verses suggest is a condemnation of people turning against what is natural behaviour for them.”
God has shown us what behaviour He expects from his children, for example from Mark 10,
“6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”
Greek “Phusis” (Strong's 5449) meaning nature, can be used in several contexts. You chose the one that you want to fit your argument, despite all the contrary evidence. It wouldn't stand up in court. http://www.blueletterbible.org/search.html#strongs (choose "Greek")
Romans ch.1 is not about grafting olive branches, it is a stark warning of what are sins and what the consequence is, i.e. death. If you start at verse 24 in Romans 1, there cannot be any doubt what we are to derive. I have quoted from the NIV this time -
“24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised.
