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Council leader's surprise call for a vote on independence

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Published Date: 01 September 2007
THE Labour leader of Midlothian Council has called for an immediate referendum on independence.
Councillor Derek Milligan told a meeting of the full council that, although he did not support the idea, if there was to be a referendum he wanted it to be held as soon as possible.

He added yesterday that a national poll would "get that question out of the way so that we can get on with our job - delivering services to the people of Midlothian."

His comments come despite Labour's parliamentary party being against a referendum and after Councillor Peter Boyes, Midlothian's education leader, said last week that the Labour party should "call Alex Salmond's bluff".

Midlothian's SNP group leader Cllr Owen Thompson admitted he was shocked at the comments. "We thought when Peter Boyes said a similar thing it was just one member of the party but when the council leader says it in the chamber it must be the party view."



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1

Senga Jean,

Edinburgh 01/09/2007 13:32:09

The pollsters do not get an accurate figure for those wishing Independence. Many people will not give a truthful answer on the record if an employer could find out. However in the secrecy of the voting booth it is different.

2

I'm no really here,

01/09/2007 13:55:18

Councillor Derek Milligan must really believe that Wendy actually knows who he is.

3

Tom R,

01/09/2007 14:41:48

#2 AM2

The results of a referendum-snap or otherwise-are not always predictable. That is why so many unionists oppose one on independence.

If they were truly certain of the outcome, they would not spend the next 3, 10, or however many years opposing it, and therefore wasting the nation's time.

Some day there will be a referendum and, if the independence option is defeated, then at some point in the future their will be another one and so on. Where, as here, it is possible to change a decision, then it cannot be decided for future generations, and for all time.

Unless the sense of Scottish nationhood is somehow obliterated, this will be the backdrop against which all Scottish politics will play out for the foreseeable future.

Even a unionist should recognise that engaging the interest of the population in the future of Scotland cannot be other than positive, and that in reality Salmond and others are inevitably obliged to address major issues of consequence to Scotland, even without independence.

I think it is wrong to fail to recognise that the profile of Scotland has been raised by the existence of an SNP government and, over time, many advantages will flow from this.

4

Michael Grieve,

Hawick 01/09/2007 15:21:33

Derek Stop being an ARSE

5

Tom R,

01/09/2007 16:49:42

#6 AM2

I think the SNP believe they could win an independence referendum and this is surely why it is their favoured option. This is because they believe the "more powers" supporters contain many whose positions are barely distinguishable from a wish for independence.

However, I am quite relaxed about the idea of a multi-option referendum but it would appear many unionists are not. I suspect this is because many unionists do not wish additional powers to be acquired by the Scottish parliament and therefore oppose any referendum on the issue, once again because they fear the outcome.

These polls indicate that the aggregate of the more powers and the pro-independence supporters look the likelier to win the referendum.

I am relaxed about the outcome for 2 reasons:

* where supporting data is supplied by pollsters it seems very difficult to identify those issues over which the "more powers" grouping wishes Westminster to hold sway. Foregn affairs used to be the favourite here, but Iraq has weakened that view

* the acquisition of new powers would then lessen the gap between the new staus quo and independence.

I believe that the opposition to a referendum, which many see as a denial of democracy, is a major weakness of the unionists and if not agreed to will ultimately wreak havoc among the unionists. I expect the Lib. Dems to be worst affected, losing second place to the SNP at the next UK election and at serious risk of losing all their constituency MSPs except Orkney and Shetland at Holyrood (2011)

6

Neil C.,

Aberdeenshire 01/09/2007 17:37:44

Before a multi-option referendum became possible, two things would be required; the extra powers on offer with a "more powers" option would have to be spelled out precisely (otherwise no-one would know what they were voting for) and some mechanism would be needed for determining which option wins. I don't think anything as important as this can be decided on a first past the post basis so I suggest an STV vote with a 50%+1 requirement to determine the outcome.

7

Honest Jock,

Leith 01/09/2007 21:23:33

6 AM2

I am shocked that is a very fair and reasonable point you have made apart from the statistics of course but thats always been yer downfall.
The true statistics indicate that the majority of Scots or more correctly the voters in Scotland are still undecided and I believe still wont vote one way or the other so whoever wins will still be in the minority.
The majority of voters in Scotland just dont trust our politicians and who can blame them?
I also believe that Alex Salmond more that any other party leader actually realises this fact and is working hard to win over sceptical voters hence the popular policies. Like the Rev Ian Paisley said Alex is one smart cookie and Wendy was just the wrong choice at the wrong time in the wrong place for Labour.

8

Honest Jock,

Leith 01/09/2007 22:20:01

10 AM2

I am laughing my arse of at that comment.

before all the other options have been carefully explored.

And just what would those other options be exactly?
Not quite independence? nearly independence? slight independence? half independence? a wee bitty independent? Independent every other day? Independent every other week? Independent every other month?

I see yer still puting a lot of thought into yer posts.

9

AyrshireScot,

01/09/2007 22:34:12

#6 Am2 - back to opinion poll data. Interesting but ultimately pointless. The SNP did propose a multi-option referednum, was rejected in favour of single issue referendum to establish Holyrood. Would be difficult to devise a system to interpret a multi-option referendum, would second choice STV votes tipping the figure on second count over 50% for independence be satisfactory? I favour independence but would be uneasy at any such proposal (it would increase chances of a yes vote). Critical will be the rules for spending, PPBs etc for a referendum campaign.

10

AyrshireScot,

01/09/2007 22:40:08

#Am2 - so we should also have immediate referenda on the Euro, constitutional treaty? Why a "snap" referendum on independence? Surely the SNP laid out its plans for a referendum if elected, and should be allowed to proceed, as Labour did (but didn't proceed) on Euro and European constitution? Why the different standard for the SNP? I wish you, and Unionists in general, could make up your minds - first you oppose a referendum, decry the cost of the "national conversation" and now demand an instant referendum. All tactics, party advantage, little thought of democracy or national interest.

11

mr chips,

02/09/2007 09:22:45

Derek the donkey spewed yesterday that a national poll would "get that question out of the way so that we can get on with our job - delivering services to the people of Midlothian."
JOB Delivering services, now that is funny.
Fecking labour idiot. hee haw, hee haw.

12

Brian Hill,

02/09/2007 11:40:20

I'm not surprised that Cnlr Milligan, AM2 et all want a 'snap' referendum, not because 'Protracted campaigning would be societally divisive and harmful to business' as AM2 claims but because a long campaign will give the electorate enough information to make an intelligent choice.

Worse still, the public will have a real taste of what Independence will be like following a year or more of SNP Government.

The longer it goes the more people will get used to and indeed like the idea of Independence.

No 6 AM2 forgot to add the latest statistic published only yesterday which showed that 35% now wanted Independence.

13

Brian Hill,

02/09/2007 12:27:22

No 18 AM2. I think you'll find AM2 that I have my NVQ Reading and Comprehension Cert (levels 1 to 3) and I am perfectly capable of understanding your own personal line of 'propaganda'.

All political campaigning is societally divisive to some extent or another, but we live with it. And all campaign material could be described as 'propaganda'.

Presumably you were against other referendums in this country on Europe and Devolution for the same reasons?

Indeed AM2, it sounds as if you are against anything which is going to give people the ability to make informed choices. You clearly prefer people to get their 'wisdom' from the tabloids like the Record, Scotsman and SOS.

I take your point about the 2 and 3 option polls being different. I didn't realise that the poll I quoted from was only 2 option, thanks for pointing that out.

We shall just have to watch the figures as the months role on and people get a real taste for 'Independence'.

14

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 13:38:47

16 AM2 - what "protracted campaign"? The SNP were elected and should be entitled to carry out their programme, within confines of parliamentary approval where required, just as any other government would be. The SNP stood on a platform of publishing a white paper setting out referendum plans. Publishing a white paper, consulting and later publishing the bill is no different to what any government does in support of its programme. Why again this double standard for the SNP? Why did/do no one complain at the protracted campaign on the Euro, or on hunting, etc etc when these initiatives have been brought forward. As for "re-branding" the executive - seems like a common sense change as almost everyone refers to the "devolved Scottish government".

15

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 23:53:31

Good news. Anyone who supports the concept of the sovereignty of the Scottish people SHOULD support a referendum on independence.

The fact Labour council leaders are bucking the party line shows that they know that their parties official line is undemocratic.

Btw I like labour lover AM2's 'open minded' attitude, 'I don't want to have a conversation' Why? Feart you might learn something?

You might try READING the SNP's paper which not only makes the case for independence but also for further devolution rather than just posting ill informed drivel on this forum!

www.scottishindependence.com


 

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