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Monday, 2nd November 2009 Change Date Latest Issue

Laser attack on jet plane triggers probe

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Published Date: 10 December 2008
POLICE are investigating another green laser attack on planes landing at Edinburgh Airport.
The latest incident involved an easyJet aircraft travelling from Belfast at 5.05pm on Monday.

The captain reported the light being fired at the plane from the Musselburgh area as it was approaching the airport.

Last week an easyJet spokesman condemned recent attacks, saying they were "extremely dangerous".

Last month it emerged that there have been at least nine similar incidents at Edinburgh Airport in the last five months.

Police are hunting those responsible for the attacks, which have led to some pilots having to cover their eyes and others having to take evasive action.





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  • Last Updated: 10 December 2008 12:40 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scotland's airports
 
1

TonyBLiar,

in a jam 10/12/2008 12:25:52
I just hope this wasn't a John Menzies plane - flying over Musselburgh after their former Chief Executive recommended they ditch their shops and diversify into aviation - just before he left and beacame boss of the Edinburgh trams project !!!!!!!!!!!
2

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 10/12/2008 12:34:59
What's the point in airport security if neds can shoot planes out of the sky with pocket lasers?
3

Cramondo,

Edinburgh 10/12/2008 12:40:58
#2 What can we deduce about high octane fuel heads based on your insightful post?
4

L,

Edinburgh 10/12/2008 12:48:52
#2 What are airport security supposed to do? You think the people doing this are standing in the airport?

Switch brain to 'on' position before reading!
5

Incandescent,

10/12/2008 12:56:11
"The captain reported the light being fired at the plane "

"Fired"? Presumably they meant "shone"? Unless of course it was some kind of sci-fi "blaster".
6

Bling Crosby,

Edinburgh 10/12/2008 13:12:20
if a plane ever did crash because if this and the neds were caught all that would happen is that they would go to prison for a year and then be let out to do as they please.


this country is a joke.

If they know this is happening why the hell don't they do something about it?
7

Rv2!,

10/12/2008 13:26:36
I drive down the road and have that horrile sunset blind me too. It's not fun, but hey, that's what the visors are for. Maybe I even use my hand on occasions.

Now seriously...
A plane, flying along... Considering that the laser beam actually managed to hit the cockpit window, how small an item is it. Oh, a pin point? This will have no real affect to the pilot beyond the "what the hell" moment for a split second. Also consideing that most planes are landing on near-fully automatic the pilot cloing his eyes for one second will make NO difference to the flight.

The idiots shining the lasers are doing the wrong thing and need punished, but they are not ever likely to cause a crash, loss of life, or any more than a temporary annoyance to the pilot.
8

zzzz,

10/12/2008 13:42:18
Can't help but think that publishing a story everytime it happens is just giving the neds some press coverage, that's what the want. On top of that it will get other neds thinking that'll be a good thing to do. I reckon these incidents have increased in frequency since it was fist published in the EEN
9

Zugspitze,

10/12/2008 13:45:06
Surely the point is that the complete idiots are TRYING to cause a crash and therefore if caught should a have a month in prison to consider their actions. Pretending that it is only stupid neds and therefore less important does not take away from the seriousness of the possible (though unlikely) consequences. In the simplest of terms, someone is attempting to tamper with an aircraft full of innocent people, whether ir be a laser pen or loosening a bolt, it amounts to the same.
10

Arrow,

edinburgh 10/12/2008 13:47:44
laser= Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. it is light energy and by the time you blink the damage is done because it travels so fast the speed of light and that is quite quick - no sh*t sherlock-. a`split second say (0.5) the light travels some 94000 miles so to travel less than a mile does not even give the pilot time to say "wh....." far less "wht the hell". whoever is doing this needs to have a ight shone in their eyes. you will find out that their next best friend would be a labrador with an bright yellow harness.
11

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 10/12/2008 14:06:28
These tubes need to be caught, but quite how that's achieved, I'm not sure. However, Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head; Incandescent; Rv2! (especially)all need a good kick up the *rse!
12

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 10/12/2008 14:09:39
I see that irony is lost on most people....

OK. I'll explain shall I??

If I am on a plane and it hits the ground hard I am going to die. So is everyone else on the plane. Whether the cause is down to Ali al-Jabba Mohammed bin Sado or Wee Stevie fae Porty is immaterial. I am still dead and so is everyone else.
13

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 10/12/2008 14:33:09
#7:

You've hit the nail on the head. Here we go with yet another addition to my list of over-reactions.
14

carrottop,

Dumfries 10/12/2008 14:38:52
Laser travels in a straight line so must be someone left in Scotland with the maths skills to work out where it came from by the position of the aircraft and the trajectory.

Or keep it simple and send a missile back down the beam.
15

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 10/12/2008 14:42:21
#10:

A little physics for you...

The "light amplification" occurs within the laser device itself, not the beam or inside your eye.

The damage is proportional to the power of the beam. The kind of power we are talking about with these devices, subject to the attenuation over that kind of distance is not enough to cause instant damage to the human eye. The kinds of lasers that can damage the eyes at this distance instantly do exist, but fortunately, they are well beyond the reach of your average ned.

Light travels at approx 3.3 x 10^8 m/s. There is no connection between the speed of light and the speed you can blink at.
16

Cod,

10/12/2008 14:42:56
Rogue Jet Planes rampaging through swathes of Edinburgh. Bang Bang I shot them down. Bang bang.
17

Rv2!,

10/12/2008 14:44:16
Curious Yellow? What is wrong with my statements and why are we all wrong?

Lasers are regularly used in nightclubs and these are much higher powered than the 2-250mW devices available from Ebay. I have worked in an industry where we used 50W lasers to etch labels and plastic bottles. I know about lasers, officially and through extensive certification.

MR Arrow. Lasers travel at the speed of light. Yup, so does my torch light, the sun, and the candle on my desk. The difference with laser is the intensity because the light can be funnelled into a small beam. The point where this gets dangerous is when the narrow beam and high power devices are trained on a point for too long. An eye is delicate and can be affected quickly. However the power in a sub 1Watt laser will cause anyone to flinch away, blink or otherwise turn away WELL before any damage occurs. Only an idiot like the people pointing telescopes at the sun generally get blinded or hurt.

When was the last time a night clubber went blind due to the lasers? When was the last time you heard of a plumber being hurt by his laser-spirit-level? Or a shop assistant in Morrisons being blinded by their barcode scanner? Laser are far from the dangerous items many people believe.

The whole "lasers blind you" situation is correct, but unless the person being blinded is stupid, tied down, or otherwise movement restricted, there will be NO blinding with anything you are likely to find in the field with Neds.

Now if you want evidence of lasers, please ask and I'll arrange access to my 3mW Red laser, 250mW Green laser and a 50w Infrared laser. The 50w infrared laser will happily tattoo anyone getting in the way, and cause very quick blinding but this is more due to the beam being invisible so not causing the target to flinch away. This laser is 200 times more powerful than any "high power" portable device and 25,000 times more than a typical handheld pointer carried by the Neds.

Please don't try to tell me abo
18

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 10/12/2008 14:47:12
#14:

"Or keep it simple and send a missile back down the beam."

Lol!! (oops, sorry. That's ironic again isn't it?)

However, it nearly happened. Not to a ned with a laser though. According to legend, PC Plod was out collecting revenue with his shiny new radar speed gun when a passing, armed RAF jet fighter picked up the signal from the gun, tried to interrogate it, got no response, assumed it was an enemy or some sort and prepared to automatically dispatch a missile to deal with it.

Luckily (or maybe not, depending on your viewpoint) the pilot realised what was happening and hit the over-ride switch just in time before said copper and speed gun were blown into squillions of tiny little bits.
19

Zugspitze,

10/12/2008 14:53:01
Surely the problem isn't about the pilot being permanently blinded, it's more of a case of the pilot's eyesight being temporarily disturbed when he/she is carrying out important procedures to land an aircraft safely or being distracted/having to try to cover the beam when he/she needs to have both hands free to complete the tasks required.
20

Rv2!,

10/12/2008 14:56:03
As for tracking the location of these lasers. That's easy. Just use a front facing camera and keep a lookout for the spot. There may be flare on the lens elements with a direct hit, but once the direct hit moves on there is a distinctive spot at the location of the source.

Once again, been there, certified and paid to do that.
21

Nitten bull,

10/12/2008 15:10:13
#20 - I bet you cook the chickens at Morrisons at Ferry Road !
22

Decent,

10/12/2008 15:31:05
21 - He's not that clever. I bet he wheels the trollies back.
23

Peedie Paws,

Livingston 10/12/2008 16:15:33
I know where laser ones in Livingstone were fired from - the path at the back of my house - as the idiots who aimed it at the pilot arriving at Edinburgh airport also aimed it through my livingroom window for several seconds. And no, I didn't look out of the window to see who it was either as that would have invited them to target my house even more.
24

True Jambo,

Edinburgh 10/12/2008 16:42:28
i bet they are shining it through their mates ear 1st then it hits the plane
25

Cynicaltalk,

10/12/2008 18:24:33
Rv2 must also be a qualified and experienced airline pilot, as well as a physics master!

How do you possibly know what effect it will have on a pilot in charge of a big airliner travelling at a couple of hundred miles an hour whilst undertaking difficult manouevres to line it up for landing? If it was as little a deal as you claim, i'm sure there wouldn't be such a big song and dance about it.

But i'm sure you know best, which is why you are commenting on the EEN forum, and not working for the CAA or government.

And High Octane, well done on googling 'laser physics' and cutting and pasting what you found onto this site.
26

A Ness,

Edinburgh 10/12/2008 18:49:39
if a plane crashes due to a stupid laser pen i will eat c rap for 5 years
27

Rv2!,

10/12/2008 19:09:19
25: Any decent size plane (Most at Edinburgh) are using auto-land. Now this does not mean the pilots have their feet up, but it does mean the plane would do a very good job of landing safely even if the crew were in the pub. How do I know? My friend Alistair flies for EasyJet, and another for BA.

Also people think forward and are looking out for things that may happen. That's why, when the sun hits your eyes as you drive you usually don't crash.

Also, a plane travelling at over 150mph or so when landing is a hard target to sustain a laser hit on, unless you are sitting at the airport. Also, given the fact the laser is probably targeting at a range of over half a mile, the beam has spread quite a bit, is also wavering around a bit due to thermal actions. This makes a sustained "attack on the window" almost impossible, especially with a portable unstabilised device.

I've never once said that the culprits should get away with this stupid action. They do need caught and dealt with. However exaggerating the result of their actions does nobody any favours. It's just another "speed kills" generalisation.

Pilots have a right to be pssd with this, as I would be if it happened to me as I drove along the road. They have the need to report this, not because they'll crash and everybody will die, but because it's annoying and causes a distraction. This is far from the sensationalising that the newspapers want to report.
28

Cynicaltalk,

10/12/2008 19:50:52
How can it cause a distraction of the plane can land itself and the pilots may as well be in the pub?
29

Schot,

10/12/2008 20:13:52
"When was the last time a night clubber went blind due to the lasers?"

In July of this year 29 ravers were partially but irreparably blinded by lasers at the Aquamarine Open Air Festival near Moscow. All laser shows are capable of damaging your retinas, treat your eyes with the respect you give your testes rather your ears at nightclibs. A low power pen laser is unlikely to cause retinal scarring, and this is no more likely to cause a crash than firing fireworks at aircraft. The danger is real though due to distracting a pilot at a crucial moment. It is a pathetic attempt at mass-murder but it is an attempt at mass-murder and should be treated as such. Making hand held lasers illegal to sell or possess seems a sensible first step.


http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14310-party-laser-blinds-russian-ravers.html
30

Schot,

10/12/2008 20:15:35
This is one typo I thought worth correcting:

A low power pen laser is unlikely to cause retinal scarring to pilots at that distance,
31

Finbarr Saunders,

10/12/2008 20:43:05
#26 - Gorgie_Tony - For once, I was happy to read your mental opinion.

Laser geekieness is no match for your crazed ramblings!
32

Conan the Librarian™,

10/12/2008 22:33:11
Laser weapons were mounted on the Hermes and Invincible in the Falklands War.

They were not used against submarines.
33

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 11/12/2008 01:04:13
#25:

I didn't copy/paste. I merely listened to my physics lessons at school and at university.
34

bertiblunt,

11/12/2008 10:18:12
how the hell could you shine a laser pen into a planes cockpit from the ground?? plus this laser is green laser pens are red, also if you picture a cockpit and its dash board you would need to be above it to shine it in someones eyes .

 

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