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Monday, 2nd November 2009 Change Date Latest Issue

Plans to turn empty Princes Street floorspace into housing

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Published Date: 21 January 2009
THE space above shops in the city centre would be used to create affordable housing under plans being promoted by a leading heritage body.
Edinburgh World Heritage, the organisation which oversees the city's World Heritage Site, is to launch a drive to find ways of bringing empty upper floors back into use.

It hopes to identify a block on Princes Street before the end of the year whe
re it can carry out a pilot study. It would then work with owners and tenants to draw up plans for using empty space.

This could include housing as well as a range of other potential uses, such as office space.

Any housing created on Princes Street is likely to be penthouse apartments but it is hoped that once the principle is established, it will be put into practice in other parts of the city centre. South Bridge is seen as one area where there are large amounts of empty space above shops which could be used for affordable housing.

The heritage organisation says Scotland has unique challenges to such development because there are sometimes several owners within one building.

The nature of Edinburgh as a historic city can also make development difficult, particularly on Princes Street, where the upper floors are often accessed via stairs within shops.

Adam Wilkinson, director at Edinburgh World Heritage, said: "The advantages to bringing these vacant spaces back into use are very clear, and so we are certainly keen to investigate how it could be done within the World Heritage Site.

"We support any project to bring the vacant floors above shops back into use.

Such a scheme would also help to maintain the city's historic buildings and keep the city centre alive."

Change was possible, he said, providing that all interested parties were willing to co-operate.

It is hoped that by starting with one block on Princes Street, similar local projects can follow elsewhere.

Heritage leaders were yesterday due to meet with city development leaders to discuss how to take the proposals forward.

The city council is working on its own "string of pearls" plan for Princes Street with the aim of encouraging owners to develop several distinct blocks.

Councillor Tom Buchanan, the city's economic development convener, said: "It is encouraging to see the growing recognition of the need to take positive steps to invigorate the upper floors of Princes Street and surrounding properties. The 'string of pearls' project has been promoting and facilitating this as part of its programme.

"It will be working closely with Edinburgh World Heritage to further investigate how to ensure our city centre is a most desirable place, not just to work and play, but to live, study, visit and invest."





Page 1 of 1

 
1

jumpship,

Edinburgh 21/01/2009 10:36:12
Affordable housing ...


Affordable for who ........

...The mega rich
2

Buttress,

21/01/2009 10:51:59
Affordable housing has a clear definition. There is information on the council's website.



3

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 21/01/2009 11:53:33
Absolute nonsense which wont happen.

We cannot have schemie families living on our main street. They would blare music out the window and walk around with football scarves, tatoos and drug paraphernalia.
4

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 21/01/2009 11:55:16
"Change was possible, he said, providing that all interested parties were willing to co-operate"

Almost everything on Princes Street is privately owned, or via large company pensions funds.

how this translates into being available for Affordable housing projects is beyond me.

Complete airy fairy communist nonsense.
5

eric,

lothian 21/01/2009 11:57:12
Looks like string o pearls been dumped then,is this plan B.
6

allknowing,

21/01/2009 11:58:07
I cant stop laughing.

So to encourage shoppers to the once good shopping street, they want to plant edinburghs rejects in to wee flats, where no doubt drinking, drugs and violence will prevail.

Hmm, think i will stick to the Gyle thanks. Honestly, the place is a tip.
7

Grumpy,

21/01/2009 11:58:41
Just imagine - You live on Princes St but cannot get your shopping delivered because the van can only get into the street after 10pm and before 6am.

But you will have a noisy tram (eventually) running past your front door.
8

Niko Bellic,

21/01/2009 11:59:02
Launch a drive.

Go on.
9

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 21/01/2009 12:00:01
"The 'string of schemie radges' project "
10

Buttress,

21/01/2009 12:00:41
Well, the Princes Street idea didn't say anything about affordable housing, it said penthouses, if the report is carefully read, and EWH has a track record of taking on other difficult buildings and, working with other partners, turning them around into successful working/living space, utilising 'green' technology also. Spomething has to be done about all the empty historic properties, and it's good that there are plans which don't involve demolition, tower blocks, or glass fronted hotels.

Before knocking this try doing some thinking and some research.

11

eric,

lothian 21/01/2009 12:03:49
Nedinburgh
12

Old Cartha Boy,

21/01/2009 12:05:14
No shortage of empty blocks to choose from! The one above Burger King/Boots/Waterstone's opposite the Balmoral would be my starting point!

13

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 21/01/2009 12:07:29
Buttress, penthouses make a lot more sense. For the reasons Ive outlined above we simply cant allow low income radges anywhere near Princes Street. Next thing you know HSBC wil be a huge chippy and BHS a massive cash convertors.
14

Buttress,

21/01/2009 12:13:10
I think that people might find that the need for 'affordable' housing covers the needs of many - including key workers such as nurses and teachers, firefighters, the police, and also the elderly. Shopworkers, council workers... Not all who live and want to work in the city are rich, and not all who are not rich are workshy neds.

The prejudice displayed by some is really dreadful.

However, the council does have its own definition of affordable housing. EWH has in the recent past taken on and repaired city historic buildings alongside a housing association, very successfully.

15

Buttress,

21/01/2009 12:16:52
"It hopes to identify a block on Princes Street before the end of the year it can carry out a pilot study. It would then work with owners and tenants to draw up plans for using empty space.

This could include housing as well as a range of other potential uses, such as office space.

Any housing created on Princes Street is likely to be penthouse apartments but it is hoped that once the principle is established, it will be put into practice in other parts of the city centre. South Bridge is seen as one area where there are large amounts of empty space above shops which could be used for affordable housing."

Am I the only one reading and understanding?

16

11+failed,

the pans 21/01/2009 12:18:41
Great idea, it should save the beggars and the Big Issue sellers having to travel to their sites on Princes Street!
17

Hmm ...,

21/01/2009 12:36:29
... isn't Big issue supposed to be sold ONLY by the homeless?
18

It's heading straight for us!,

Edinburgh 21/01/2009 12:41:24
I think the 'affordable' tag is a bit of a red herring, probably EEN getting it wrong. Having spaces occupied by responsible owners would help cut crime. Access as stated is a problem but I seem to recall that there used to be an old lady who lived in a flat above the Bank of Scotland building on the mound and she used to have to go through the bank to get to her house!
19

Arrow,

edinburgh 21/01/2009 12:43:14
the Council will insist that a propotion of the accommodation is for "affordable housing need" and be allocated to needy members of Councillor's families and senior members of the officers at the Cooncil. the balance will be for who knows?
20

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 21/01/2009 12:50:37
19

I used to know an old lady

who lived in a schuh,
She had so many children,
She didn't know what to do.
She gave them some broth,
Without any bread;
She whipped them all soundly,
And sent them to bed.

Butress , 'tis me , 'tis mario, relax.
21

Embra boy,

Edinburgh 21/01/2009 12:52:16
#16 - No, I'm with you on this.

There has been a move to occupy empty properties above shops in England for some years now (an RICS initiative I think), so there's no reason why it shouldn't work here.
Probably a bit ambitious to start with Princes Street (access issues etc.) but South Bridge or other parts of the town would also yield suitable properties.
22

antifa,

21/01/2009 12:52:58
14 - well said. Why is there so much hatred for low-paid workers on this board?

They're not responsible for the mess we're in.
23

Embra boy,

Edinburgh 21/01/2009 12:54:39
Eg. Merton Council working with Empty Homes Agency to a similar end.

http://www.merton.gov.uk/emptyproperty.htm
24

Buttress,

21/01/2009 12:55:32
Well, EWH has already done similar things elsewhere, why not wait and see?

In Shandwick Place it took on shops and let them out in order to fund housing above.

It has also worked with Lister Housing Co-operative on the Energy Heritage Project:

http://www.ewht.org.uk/Energy-Heritage-Project.aspx

It is doing excellent work on Well Court in Dean Village. There have been a number of other successful ventures.

25

Buttress,

21/01/2009 13:02:07
21 - it's Mario - RELAX?

Even more worrying! ;-)

Yes, a number of councils have schemes to bring empty buildings back into use, there are so many shops throughout the UK with empty space above which, if all can agree, can be used for offices, housing etc.

Here's Thanet's No Use Empty project:

http://www.nouseempty.org/index.php?rm=news&article=28
26

Vandala,

21/01/2009 13:44:31
#23. Because most of the people who post are elderly psychopaths with nothing better to do than pretend that they are wealthy.
27

Niko Bellic,

21/01/2009 14:26:43
#27

I'm 49, divorced, and I earn about £3k more than the national average. And I haven't killed anyone (apart from a few thousand members of the Sindacco family).

Elderly? Nope. Psychopath? Nope. Wealthy? I'll put some numbers on tonight's lottery and get back to you on that score.
28

Foo,

21/01/2009 15:11:22
#27 -

Foo is~
Elderly (I'm 30)- Nope
Psychopath - Not unles you count being a badass pirate as being a psychopath.
Anything better to do? Possibly. I can read/write/speak Japanese so I could be on the Osaka evening News (OEN) wasting time too.
Wealthy - I'm the king of Brazil, so I've a few bob flying about the place.
29

FreddieIII,

21/01/2009 15:24:49
"Why is there so much hatred for low-paid workers on this board? They're not responsible for the mess we're in."

Yes - they are called sub prime borrowers
30

jdships,

Edinburgh 21/01/2009 15:27:28
"THE space above shops in the city centre would be used to create affordable housing under plans being promoted by a leading heritage body."

"Any housing created on Princes Street is likely to be penthouse apartments "

These quotes from the article surely contradict each other ?

Then we have this gem
"Councillor Tom Buchanan, the city's economic development convener, said: "It is encouraging to see the growing recognition of the need to take positive steps to invigorate the upper floors of Princes Street and surrounding properties. The 'string of pearls' project has been promoting and facilitating this as part of its programme.
"It will be working closely with Edinburgh World Heritage to further investigate how to ensure our city centre is a most desirable place, not just to work and play, but to live, study, visit and invest."

It beggard belief the guff these so called administartor's come out with
31

Buttress,

21/01/2009 15:33:06
But this has already been happening in the city - it's simply an extension of that. The affordable part (read the article) suggests not the space above Princes Street.

Great idea in my view.

I agree though about the PR speak!
32

Rap,

21/01/2009 15:52:49
#30 I would have thought that with the blanket coverage for the last 6 months you would understand that the problems lies not (in the main) with the sub prime borrowers. It lies with the greed of the bankers who choose to lend to the "sub prime" borrowers - you'd have thought their name might have given them a clue to the risk involved.

And, just to clarify further, low-paid workers are not necessarily sub-prime borrowers. Sub-prime refers to those with no or poor credit histories, proven to have had financial problems. This is not the same as those low paid workers who clean Princes St, or police it, or who deal with the physical injuries inflicted on it, or teach us all.

Clear now? Now run along and stop with the sweeping, insulting generalisations, there's a good boy.

33

Mallory,

Edinburgh 21/01/2009 16:10:21
The sub-primes households were actively targetted by banks FOLLOWING PRESSURE AND LEGISLATION under the Clinton Presidency to enable home-ownership for the low paid. Bush tried to warn against this but was overruled by Congress. In the UK heavy bonuses, high commissions and hyped up stuff about the benefits of home ownership insured a repeat over here.

http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/sept2008/nyt1999-subprime.html
34

Seb,

21/01/2009 16:34:19
There's already a planning application lodged to turn the upper floors of 43 Princes Street (next to BHS)into flats.
35

Buttress,

21/01/2009 17:11:38
I think this may be more than simply a planning application, more looking into wider ways of encouraging owners and finding other means and funding to try to bring empty upper floors back into use.

36

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 21/01/2009 17:18:48
#16 Buttress - Totally agree, this is an excellent idea.
37

Niko Bellic,

21/01/2009 17:22:15
Princes Street needs Brazilian women pole dancing inside of a suicided goat.

That's what.
38

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 21/01/2009 17:40:38
Yet another 'realistic' suggestion from a 'heritage' group.

Affordable housing? Yes, to Donald Trump and his friends - maybe not such a bad idea. Who knows he might convert Princes Street gardens into an executive golf course - God knows, we need one in the City Centre, I'm fed having to go all the way to the Burgess at Barnton.

39

Buttress,

21/01/2009 18:30:46
Oh dear, Peter who hasn't the plot as ever.
40

Think Tank,

21/01/2009 19:16:21
It's not in itself a stupid idea, it's just exceedingly unrealistic. Affordable housing by its very definition is cheap housing, unless its construction is subsidised by taxpayer money. Since the plans for Princes street involve private investment, affordable housing will see the cheapest possible solution sought for bringing the unused floors into operation. I think most would agree that Princes street needs regeneration and rejuvenation, not cheap sticking plasters.

It also has to be said that whilst Edinburgh World Heritage's intentions may be fine, one has to question why they're joining this debate so very late. There has been extensive consultation on Princes' street for many years now, with the String of Pearls' documentation kicking around for many months.

It would have been far more sensible and productive to get involved in these plans during the early consultation stage, rather than turning up so late.
41

Buttress,

21/01/2009 19:21:40
And as usual, Septic hasn't a clue either.

Do your homework Septic. Way out of touch.
42

Ronnie Fae London hfc,

21/01/2009 19:59:21
i use to live on the bridges above shops and there was plenty more so why cant it be on princes street
43

Starkravingsane,

Edinburgh 21/01/2009 20:59:24
Gosh, what a fab cooncil hoose to get! And likely at taxpayers expense!
44

Buttress,

21/01/2009 21:50:04
Oh dear another who doesn't have a clue.
45

suse,

21/01/2009 22:05:29
ridiculous. Why cant the council spend some b***Y money buying up flats on the open market now whilst the prices are falling and use them to rent out???
46

Julian.,

edinburgh 21/01/2009 22:17:41
Buttress2,

Before knocking other posts why don't you try reading the article...first 5 lines in fact which says they are looking at a block in Princes Street to be used as a pilot project for turning city centre properties into affordable housing.
47

Julian.,

edinburgh 21/01/2009 22:19:53
Buttress2,

"THE space above shops in the city centre would be used to create affordable housing under plans being promoted by a leading heritage body.

Edinburgh World Heritage, the organisation which oversees the city's World Heritage Site, is to launch a drive to find ways of bringing empty upper floors back into use.

It hopes to identify a block on Princes Street before the end of the year where it can carry out a pilot study"
48

Yok Finney,

21/01/2009 22:42:39
Princes Street could hardly get tattier than it is. In the Embra manner, "they hope to identify a block before the END OF THE YEAR" Then draw up some plans (sorry, a pilot study) by the end of next year? Is this process or ingrained lethargy?

The whole system or taxes and rating needs be reconsidered for the age of motor car which has been on the go for 100 years. BUILDING affordable conversions to residences makes sense. It'll never be the quality or quantity shopping street of days past. The SNP's LIT proposal (effectively a national income tax that would be spent in Scotland) seems both reasonable and sensible.

Edinburgh's super rich have nearly sunk the Capital's standing as a financial center. It's the low paid workers (who'd like an affordable house) that maintain the vestiges of civilisation.
49

Buttress,

22/01/2009 01:04:45
I did read the article. I suggest you read it in full, before rushing to say that what is happening is that Princes Street will be used as a pilot for affordable housing.

Also, there's a great deal of rushing to conclusions by people who I bet haven't bothered to find out any more.

Princes Street may become housing, probably penthouses, it may become offices, there isn't actually anything hard and fast as yet. Also, funding partners may come from sectors not exclusively the council.


50

Julian.,

edinburgh 22/01/2009 02:56:40
#51,

Suggest you go and read your post again:-

"Well, the Princes Street idea didn't say anything about affordable housing, it said penthouses,"

That's quite plainly wrong as the article does talk about the possibility of using Princes Street for affordable housing (amongst other things)....which is why some of the posters were "knocking this"
51

Rap,

22/01/2009 07:59:52
"Edinburgh World Heritage, the organisation which oversees the city's World Heritage Site, is to launch a drive to find ways of bringing empty upper floors back into use.

It hopes to identify a block on Princes Street before the end of the year wheADVERTISEMENTre it can carry out a pilot study. It would then work with owners and tenants to draw up plans for using empty space.

This could include housing as well as a range of other potential uses, such as office space.

Any housing created on Princes Street is likely to be penthouse apartments but it is hoped that once the principle is established, it will be put into practice in other parts of the city centre. "

Now, where does is say affordable housing ON Princes St? This is a trial by EWHT to encourage use of existing empty floors. After this trial other spaces may be used for affordable housing, whilst these trial properties likely to be Penthouse properties. Can you stop arguing about the semantics and just comment on the general concept, please.
52

Buttress,

22/01/2009 10:02:19
Exactly Rap - which I think I said earlier too. Seems not many people read and understand, do they?

I note Septic has gone quiet again. Much of what he said, as usual, is 'misguided' too.
53

Think Tank,

23/01/2009 19:35:03
It's boring Buttress- if someone doesn't agree with your line you just slag them off. It's childish.

And as for not responding:
http://news.scotsman.com/opinion/This-is-the-way-forward.4834042.jp?CommentPage=1&CommentPageLength=1000#3589833

"I don't have to answer anything at all Septic - that's the fun of baiting you" (c) Buttress 2009...says it's all about what a waste of time you are really.
54

grantcat,

Old Town 23/01/2009 20:05:12
Two things - perhaps we could use empty houses as homes for "affordable housing" there are 18 empty flats in the Canongate, 8 of which are council whixh are just sitting there not even being used not even for temporary accommodation!

Affordable homes have to be affordable - and that means the land value has to be affordable too.

Are we talking about affordable housing or social housing?

However if there are empty space it makes sense to turn them into homes
55

Buttress,

24/01/2009 12:59:32
It's boring Septic - if anyone doesn't agree with you you get petulant and 'slag them off'. Do stop stamping your feet, dear. It's childish. I'm not the first and I have no doubt I won't be the last poster here you have has a bit of an obsession with, but then that's what trolls do I suppose.

Now you don't have to keep writing reams here you know, it's not compulsory. You don't even have to read it.

Affordable housing in Edinburgh:

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/internet/Housing/Development%20and%20regeneration/CEC_affordable_housing_

56

Buttress,

25/01/2009 11:44:06
"42 Think Tank,21/01/2009 19:16:21
It's not in itself a stupid idea, it's just exceedingly unrealistic. Affordable housing by its very definition is cheap housing, unless its construction is subsidised by taxpayer money. Since the plans for Princes street involve private investment, affordable housing will see the cheapest possible solution sought for bringing the unused floors into operation. I think most would agree that Princes street needs regeneration and rejuvenation, not cheap sticking plasters."

Very realistic, EWH has a good track record, hardly sticking plaster, no mention in the above (do try to read with more care) that Princes St will be 'affordable housing', no reason why the highest standard of work will not prevail and no reason to suppose there will be no private investment (see EWH website for details of other work carried out, including Well Court, Dean Village, on which this paper had an article last week).

"It also has to be said that whilst Edinburgh World Heritage's intentions may be fine, one has to question why they're joining this debate so very late. There has been extensive consultation on Princes' street for many years now, with the String of Pearls' documentation kicking around for many months."

That's right. And further investigation will reveal that you are wrong about that too. EWH has, I understand, been part of consultations, it is after all part council funded, and

"It would have been far more sensible and productive to get involved in these plans during the early consultation stage, rather than turning up so late."

So - wrong again. But overall plans have to be turned into detailed ones. Which is what is now being investigated, surely? Princes Street won't be turned around overnight, and many poor planning decisions (including demolitions of fine buildings) from the past are in part to blame for the blight. Slowly and carefully and with sensitivity must be the way forward.

 

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