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Foreign language pupils put strain on Capital classrooms

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Published Date: 27 February 2008
THE NUMBER of Edinburgh school pupils who do not speak English as a first language is putting a strain on the city's schools, teachers have warned.
New figures show there are 3490 youngsters across the Capital for whom English is not their native tongue.

There are now 88 languages spoken by children in Edinburgh's schools, with Polish the most common after English, followed by Urdu and Punjab
i. Across Scotland, the number of pupils who do not speak English fluently was up by 61.5 per cent in a year.

Ronnie Smith, the EIS union's general secretary, warned that teachers were struggling to provide added support.

"If there are insufficient resources put in to make it manageable then everybody loses."

The Scottish Government figures show that 15411 Scots pupils have English as an additional language in 2007 – up 5925 from 2006. In West Lothian schools, there are 44 languages spoken and 524 pupils with English as an additional language.

In East Lothian the figures were 35 and 144 respectively, and 33 and 175 in Midlothian, where Scots was listed as the most common second language.

David Eaglesham, general secretary of the Scottish Secondary Teachers' Association, called for translators to be brought in. He said: "We are doing the best we can, but it is all we can do without more resources."

Councillor Mrs Marilyne MacLaren, education convener for Edinburgh city council, said: "There is an increased pressure on our schools. To help ease this, last week we allocated an additional £60,000 to the English as an Additional Language service budget."

Last year, teachers backed a motion calling for a cap on the number of non-English speakers in the classroom, amid fears that their education was suffering.

A teachers' conference revealed that increased immigration had created classes without a single child who only speaks English.

One solution proposed by teachers is to send non-English speaking pupils to special "immersion" units, where they can improve their language skills.

Local authorities are required to meet the needs of all pupils, regardless of language.

A spokeswoman for the Scottish Government said the increase in numbers was a result of better reporting of languages spoken by pupils.

She said: "It is clear that the increase in number of non-fluent pupils is causing pressure within authorities. As this is the second year in which statistics on English as an additional language have been published, this information should help authorities plan for and manage such pressures."







Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 February 2008 10:28 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Poles in Scotland
 
1

truthsleuth,

27/02/2008 11:14:57
Bring us your children ... we will educate them at cost to our own (both financially and academically.
No wonder we are the laughing stock of the world.
2

Beergut,

Embra 27/02/2008 12:41:55
I thought the media were telling us just the other day that all the Polish people were heading back home again because they could now earn better money there. So it will obviously just be a temporary blip, don't worry about it. I still remember the mini Ice Age the media warned about in the 1960's and look at us now with Global warming never out of the news. Nothing lasts forever but what goes around always comes around again.
3

spiggot,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 12:42:04
Since immigrants contribute sonificantly more to the economy on average than the already resident population it would appear that many of the above contributors want to cut off their noses to spite their faces...Indigenous Brits are an ageing population....

Immigrants, being on average younger than the indigenous population, contribute more in taxes, national insurance etc. to the pot of money that gives us State Schools, the NHS, Old Age Pensions etc...

These facts are generally well known which suggests to me that the above contributors are motivated not by real concern about our schools etc. but by racism.
4

spiggot,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 12:42:45
Since immigrants contribute significantly more to the economy on average than the already resident population it would appear that many of the above contributors want to cut off their noses to spite their faces...Indigenous Brits are an ageing population....

Immigrants, being on average younger than the indigenous population, contribute more in taxes, national insurance etc. to the pot of money that gives us State Schools, the NHS, Old Age Pensions etc...

These facts are generally well known which suggests to me that the above contributors are motivated not by real concern about our schools etc. but by racism.
5

Anon,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 12:48:26
What a horrible attitude to take towards immigrants.

It is hardly the fault of the children if English is not their first language.

These countries are in the EU therefore we are under every obligation to provide educational needs for these children.

I don't think it is going to starve the education department to put in place some extra tutoring for these children.

If immigrants come here and work full time then I am happy for their children to receive the same education as our own, their parent or parents are paying taxes and insurance just like everyone else is.

6

Fairfax,

27/02/2008 13:09:36
spiggot (7): "Since immigrants contribute significantly more to the economy on average than the already resident population"

It's by no means clear to economists that this statement is true: much depends on estimates of costs of infrastructure. The key point is that most of our immigrants are performing fairly low-paid jobs, and there is a wage threshold below which the cost of infrastructure implies that they are a net loss, rather than a net gain.

"Immigrants, being on average younger than the indigenous population, contribute more in taxes, national insurance etc."

It's not the age of immigrants but their income distribution that is crucial. You can find a brief summary of the economic points here

http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/faqs.asp
7

spiggot,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 13:13:35
#12 Migration Watch UK, if that's what you mean, is well known as a rabid, racist, anti-immigrant organisation which publishes "facts" that are acceptable to the right wing media and the British National Party! (see wikipedia)
8

Journalistic licence,

A Primary School 27/02/2008 13:14:47
Aye, ah ken like, it's jist a disgrace that naebuddy can spoke proper English, like we's can. When ah wis wentin' tae school it wus a prerequisite fur us aw tae spoke the lingo. Shocking.
9

Mensa George,

Washington, DC 27/02/2008 13:17:04
In the US, many of our illegal immigrants are found to be illiterate in their native language as well as English. The propagandists for the joys of diversity have worked to adapt to this development by changing the title of the classes from English as a Second Language to English for non-English speakers.
10

Fairfax,

27/02/2008 13:18:48
Anon (9): "These countries are in the EU therefore we are under every obligation to provide educational needs for these children."

That's certainly correct: we are now allowed to discriminate between educational provision on the grounds of EU citizenship. However, it is important to recall that only Britain, Eire and Sweden allowed free migration of workers from new EU nations in 2004; see

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4985212.stm

Thus immigration from new EU nations has been highly imbalanced. It is also worth remembering that our own government's estimate was an influx of merely 13,000 workers (see the link above) -- we now have approximately 1,000,000.
11

Martin 2,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 13:19:48
Some children who don't have English as their first language in the home may not be immigrants.( Gaelic speakers) Stop attacking them.

My Scottish Aunt lives in Spain and has received superb treatment from the Spanish health system - paid for by Spanish. EU allows free movement and equal treatment.

Those attacking immigrants would find much more ammunition from looking at Scottish-born children who are a disruptive influence in the classroom ( behaviour as learnt from parents in their Scottish born and bred living rooms at home) - this impacts much more on fellow students and teachers.
12

Fairfax,

27/02/2008 13:26:27
spiggot (20): "#12 Migration Watch UK, if that's what you mean, is well known as a rabid, racist, anti-immigrant organisation which publishes "facts" that are acceptable to the right wing media"

Their website does not seem to be rabid or racist. Still, perhaps you would instead consider the academic site (http://www.borjas.com) of Harvard economist George Borjas, himself the son of immigrants? His finding for the US is that the marginal benefit of unskilled immigration is low. Since the UK has greater welfare provision, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that the net economic benefit is very small indeed.

There is also the point that the problems are rather different for England and Scotland. Scotland's immigrant population is small, albeit growing rapidly, whilst England's ethnic minority population now exceeds the total population of Scotland.

13

Gothic Rose,

27/02/2008 13:45:21
16#Grushka.
"Its a problem of arithmetic" If thats the case some of us never learn.On the other hand,"everything in its own time"and that goes for language as well.
14

Fairfax,

27/02/2008 13:47:18
The Genuine Marie Antoinette (32): "Its time to think the bigger picture - Europe."

The EU is a noble ideal. However, only Britain, Sweden and Eire "saw the bigger picture" and allowed free migration of workers from the new EU in 2004. All of the other EU nations forbade this, at least in part due to fears that problems like this would arise.
15

Statsman,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 13:49:04
32 The Genuine Mario Antoinette

5) To create a European superstate under the control of people no one has elected.

I think you'll find that is the real reason.
16

Fairfax,

27/02/2008 13:56:53
TGMA (37): "But they arent banned for ever, i take it you know that."

Indeed. The current date given by Germany is 2009, although there is strong German support for a longer ban.

"Poles will soon be able to work in germany, and many will be offski pretty sharpish from scotland.."

I think we'll have to wait and see. Germany's labour market and economy are very different from Britain's. I was discussing this with a Polish colleague here in Cambridge, whose view was that many Poles would avoid Germany, if any reasonable alternative was available, for obvious historical reasons.
17

Statsman,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 14:01:42
38 The Genuine Mario Antoinette

Oh my sides. What a witty poster you are. The quality of your posts is inversely proportional to the quantity. Keep spamming.
18

`Side show bob,

27/02/2008 14:42:21
Methalions,27/02/2008 13:30:19
Here in Spain, unless you go to an international private school, the lessons are all in Spanish. Children of ex-pats must get their kids up to scratch in Spanish.It appears to work. The "foreign" kids I know who live here are bi-lingual

Yes and i think they should adopted that policy in Scotland as well, btw, do you have farmfoods in spain?
19

Statsman,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 14:42:56
45 The Genuine Mario Antoinette

You're one of these muesli munching uber liberals that thinks even discussing immigration is racist.

It is not racist to say that we do not have the resources to cope with immigration on this scale. It is not racist to say that you are worried about the cultural identity of your own country being seriously compromised.

Your support of open door immigration plays into the hands of the BNP. We will soon be faced with a situation where the muesli munchers precipitate a very right wing Britain.
20

blackley,

Edinburgh 27/02/2008 15:30:44
It can only do good for our kids to be learning alongside those from other cultures. Hopefully, it will stop them becoming Little Englanders like some of the people on this page!
Oh by the way truthsleuth - we are NOT the laughing stock of teh world! Where did you pick that one up? The Tory Party Conference?
21

Fairfax,

27/02/2008 15:50:43
blackley (60): "It can only do good for our kids to be learning alongside those from other cultures."

A cosmopolitan environment can be excellent, particularly for children. Consider, however, whether you wish to emulate England here: at present, the under-18 population of London is majority ethnic-minority.
22

streetwise,

somewhere in my head 27/02/2008 15:57:09
Cant believe your having this debate now,where have you lot been hiding,welcome to the world,what did you think was going to happen,surely you know what you vote for,dont moan now.
23

Fairfax,

27/02/2008 16:10:29
Fairfax (61): "at present, the under-18 population of London is majority ethnic-minority."

I forgot to post a reference for this. The DFES (now the DCSF) provides several useful statistics on schoolchildren in England here:

http://www.dfes.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000744/index.shtml

The Additional infomation Excel spreadsheet labelled "(Additional Local Authority level information including schools by status and religious character, pupils by ethnic group and first language, pupils by age in independent schools.)" contains the relevant information as Table 32. You will notice that the percentage of pupils identified as "white British" in Inner London is 37%.
24

Fairfax,

27/02/2008 16:26:32
TGMA (67): "65 most Western european major cities are like that !"

In fact European cities vary greatly in youth immigrant population, as can be seen in the following document:

http://www.uceu.org/Assemblees/Resume%202003%20EN.pdf

England and Holland are particularly noticeable for this phenomenon. Glasgow and Edinburgh hardly display this. As you will also see from the DFES statistics, some 20% of schoolchildren in England are ethnic-minority. For comparison, this implies that there are roughly twice as many ethnic-minority schoolchildren in England as there are Scottish schoolchildren in total.



25

James (1),

27/02/2008 16:49:20
I say let them keep coming. Let them put an ever increasing burden on the country and all the services. Eventually the system will grind to a halt. Then we will start to sort it out.
As it stands right now if does not really affect anyone so we get the come one come all attitude.
Who cares what language you speak. We will find someone to teach you. Who cares if you are ill and need to take up a bed in a hospital? Not us we have more than enough beds. What about housing? Give immigrants priority and make those born here to wait. The local are better at adapting. Your time for a house will eventually come.
We are in the EU and that means a welcome all. To change it we need to get out the EU and that will only happen when we grind to a halt.
26

Fairfax,

27/02/2008 16:56:47
James (1) (69): "As it stands right now if does not really affect anyone so we get the come one come all attitude."

It certainly affects London! Some 45% of all ethnic minorities are concentrated in London, compared to Scotland's containing 3% of Britain's ethnic minority. In other words, London contains 15 times the ethnic minority population of Scotland.

Here's the National Office of Statistics distribution of ethnic minorities:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=263
27

Fairfax,

27/02/2008 16:57:27
Fairfax (70): "Britain's ethnic minority" should be "Britain's ethnic minority population".
28

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 27/02/2008 17:35:39
Wow! This is one hot potato! I don't think the arguments are anti-immigrants, more to do with the fact that Scottish children are being held back because the teachers must cater for the needs of the slowest pupil, and if that pupil can't understand the language the problem grows until it becomes racial.It seems that it's the huge number of Poles who are causing the problem in Scotland, but in other parts of the UK, particulary London, there are many more languages to cater for every day. Thousands of children are consequently leaving school without a basic education and are filling the columns of the country's newspapers with their behavioural problems. The cultural divide in the country is growing wider by the minute and will continue to do so until every child speaks the Enhglish language.
29

Fairfax,

27/02/2008 19:20:58
TGMA (73): "70 I dont see that as a problem. For the future, think "star - trek""

Futures can be dystopian as well as utopian. I wonder if you would take this view if you lived in London, rather than Scotland. However, let's construct a thought experiment to test your views: suppose we encouraged (via financial incentives) further English immigration in Scotland, with the result that the English population of Scotland, currently 10%, became 40% over the next 10 years (this is an increase of just over 2 million English residents in Scotland, so less than the increase in England's ethnic minority population from 1991 to 2001). What would Scotland's attitude be to, say, Edinburgh expanding massively, becoming almost half-English? Would it really not matter?
30

Fairfax,

27/02/2008 19:47:58
TGMA (76): "its only a problem if you want it to be a problem."

That's correct, but you're avoiding the question: do you believe that an increase in the English population of Edinburgh to, say, 50% would be without problems? What would the general Scottish reaction be? Do you honestly believe that it would be anodyne?

As an English academic, with friends and family in Scotland, I suspect that there would be a palpable increase in tension. Consider, then, the result of further mass immigration from elsewhere.

"To be quite honest mate theres not anything you could do about it , i would save yourself the stress and enjoy life."

You're avoiding the question again. If you're this intellectually lazy, why bother posting?
31

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 27/02/2008 20:10:33
#77 Such a situation could only arise if tere was a mass emigration of professional and skilled Scots. Those left behind would eventually drift into the same sort of life style as the indigenous people of the Antipodes.
32

,

27/02/2008 20:31:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

Max Born,

27/02/2008 21:20:52
#80.
Yes perhaps I am,but when we hear that by and large most "indigenous" kids can,t hold a conversation,use a knife and fork or do not understand the concept of sharing when they start school.Exposes this "article" as cheap sensationalism.
34

Max Born,

27/02/2008 21:33:57
And when the same story allbeit re hashed was in the Scotsmanthis morning with no opertunity to comment make me feel like Mohamed el Fahed this is thought control.
http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Sharp-rise-in-pupils-lacking.3818485.jp
35

Fairfax,

27/02/2008 22:18:01
Max Born (81):"Exposes this "article" as cheap sensationalism."

For Scotland there certainly doesn't seem much to worry about yet. For England, 1 in 5 schoolchildren are from ethnic minorities, rising to 1 in 2 in London. England therefore has more children with English as a second language than Scotland has children; see the DFES reference in my earlier post for the statistics. Every year, England takes in roughly 250,000 new immigrants, although the figure might be higher due to census errors and illegal immigration: England takes in roughly half the population of Edinburgh every year. It would be remarkable if teaching problems did not occur.

Given your eponym, you presumably have some interest in statistics; what's your view?
36

Fairfax,

28/02/2008 09:20:47
TGMA (84): "Fairfax, Im not an academic EG I dont spend my time solving barely feasible hypothetical problems."

For which read "I don't like to think about difficult issues that require thought"; still, at least your "star trek" comments have been given pause. In the late-1990s, I briefly joined a group of economists who had been asked to comment on aspects of immigration by the Treasury. I was asked to join them as a mathematician, in order to estimate numbers and growth in the immigrant population. In discussing our findings with a Treasury civil servant afterwards, I remember his surprise that we had estimated an ethnic minority school age population of 15% by the mid-2000s. Like you, he mentioned "hypothetical growth" in his reply, then reminded us that the ethnic minority population of England was only slightly over 4% in 1991 -- in his view, our estimate was far too high. However, our estimate was, in fact, too low: the current figure is 20%.

Of course, I'm not seriously suggesting that the percentage of English citizens in Scotland will dramatically increase to 40% of the Scottish population. I am, however, suggesting that your ethnic minority population, currently low, could increase greatly in a short period of time, as occurred in London. It would be pleasant to think of Star Trek as our future, but sadly I suspect our future will resemble the history of the Balkans.
37

James (1),

28/02/2008 11:18:53
Easy solution, just print more money!
People arrive here that cannot speak the language then use some of this new printed money to pay for teachers and interpreters. Give those who are ill prepared for their arrival here some of this money as well. Use this money to build more hospitals.
It is so simple OR we could do what we are doing now and just ignore the problem!

38

Calum Crubag,

28/02/2008 13:21:47
#1 and 2 - how many 'Brits' are equipped to live in Spain, France or anywhere else where English is not widely used? Our language skills are appalling. Some Scots can't even respect their own tongues.

Given proper support, these foreign kids will flourish. Most of them are already bilingual. Most learn English very easily. These linguistic skills are what employers are looking for.
39

Fairfax,

28/02/2008 14:44:17
Calum Crubag (87): "how many 'Brits' are equipped to live in Spain, France or anywhere else where English is not widely used?"

Relatively few. This lack of assimilation is also causing problems in France and Spain. The cost of providing infrastructure for them is also causing concern. In particular, the French government intends to remove health benefits for many British expatriates; see

http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page14542.asp

"Given proper support, these foreign kids will flourish."

I'm sure that's true. However, the key point is the sheer number of children, implying that the cost of providing this proper support is substantial -- remember that 1 in 5 English schoolchildren comes from an ethnic minority, although the figure is much smaller in Scotland. Indeed the cost of providing infrastructure is one of the reasons why mass unskilled immigration is not a pure economic gain.
40

Cassandra,

17/04/2008 18:34:31
Does anybody else find this revamped site a bu99er to navigate?

 

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