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Wednesday, 4th November 2009 Change Date Latest Issue

More chaos as major Princes Street tram works to begin

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Published Date: 25 September 2008
THE first major tram works on Princes Street will get under way next Wednesday, with bus passengers facing diversions.
Work to move the utilities under The Mound junction will see traffic banned along Princes Street between Frederick Street and Hanover Street.

Services which pass through the busy junction will be either diverted via George Street or Market Street and Waverley Bridge.

Buses will still serve Hanover Street but general traffic will be banned. Full pedestrian access will be maintained during the project, which is expected to last until April next year.

The latest work comes two months before the whole of Princes Street is due to close to traffic for six months to accommodate further tram works.

Drivers today warned the diversions will create gridlock in the city centre. Raymond Davidson, secretary of the Edinburgh Taxi Association, said: "This will have a massive impact.

"The roads where the diversions are going are already nose-to-tail at rush hour so it will only get worse when you add in all those buses and taxis.

"Passengers will be facing big delays if it doesn't work well because it is a major junction and there is so much traffic which goes through it.

"The disruption caused by this tram project is unbelievable and I think it is only now that we are beginning to see the full extent of it."

The first few days of the diversions might be made further problematic by the fact it is still not clear when Johnston Terrace will reopen following a recent rock fall from Edinburgh Castle.

City council officials are not able to confirm exactly when the road will reopen, but they have said it is likely to be the middle of next week.

Bill Campbell, Lothian Buses operations director said: "This is a major diversion. Some disruption to passengers travelling into the city centre is inevitable.

"However, we are working closely with TIE and the city council in order to ensure as best we can that disruption is kept to a minimum."

Preparations for the works at The Mound junction have been ongoing for the last few weeks.

A spokesman for TIE said full details of the project would be announced later.

He added: "The work in Princes Street is a crucial phase in the Edinburgh tram project."


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 25 September 2008 11:04 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Bob 2,

25/09/2008 11:40:27
great, just what the Bus Travelling Public wanted to hear.

This will really help Lothian Buses

Wouldn't they have been better just doing this work in a oner, rather than closing of parts of Prince Street Twice?

That would have required Common Sense and Forward Planning!!!!!

Cycling beats the Jams caused by this Project

PS Spot the tram worker
2

bluehead,

edinburgh 25/09/2008 11:55:31
more madness,!come to Edinburgh if you want to see madness at it's worse,the maniacal tram system is an utter disgrace,and should never been started,when there was a perfectly good transport service with buses,
Edinburgh will be forever known as the city that threw away millions of pounds,and nobody did any thing to stop this callous waste of money that could have been used for things that were more in need,Edinburgh is now known as a madhouse.
3

allknowing,

25/09/2008 12:12:52
You have to laugh though. Hope all the poor people appreicate this, and not trash it like everything else in their lifes.

Trams are a joke, total waste of cash, which would have been better spent improving the current bus stock, and giving everyone free travel for 5 years.
4

alex patersons English teacher,

25/09/2008 12:19:15
3
too, for, sex, ate,

who do wee appreicate
5

The Judge,

25/09/2008 12:24:45
Spot the tramLINE worker, Edinburgh brand new board game. I've yet to see a single worker, not one, zero, nil.

I was in town yesterday and it took me over an hour on the bus when it should have taken no more than 20-25mins.

I can't see how Lothian Buses can survive this type of disruption to their services. We're getting the tramLINE but at what expense to other forms of public transport? How many bus services will we have in 4 years time?

Can two buses pass even each other on Market St, or have the suspended yet more parking bays?

6

Daft Old Git,

25/09/2008 12:31:41
' The first major tram works will get underway' So we've just had a wee taster so far!
7

Bob 2,

25/09/2008 12:35:28
Princes Street will be a ghost town, by christmas.

Best Joke is the TIE website, they are still promoting a network

"During the construction of Edinburgh’s 21st century tram network, we would like to thank you all for your support and patience in helping to build a new and modern transport system."

Maybe the Advertising Standards Agency could have a quick word, or is this another thing that they are excempt from.

Funny Enough, there's no mention of the 6 month closure of Princes Street on their website?

8

Liz,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 12:36:23
There is of course the added challenge now of working out where on earth your buses are going to end up.

Everytime I have been on a bus recently there have been all kinds of wierd and wonderful diversions. Bit of a nightmare when you need to change in the City Centre though. If both your buses are diverted how on earth are you supposed to work out where you might be able to catch your connection?
9

alex paterson,

edinburgh 25/09/2008 12:37:40
Close the City down until the job is finished,send us all on a vacation at the councils expense.
10

craig7653,

Port Seton 25/09/2008 12:38:49
Another nail in Edinburgh's coffin. I hope the current council have enjoyed their term in office, because they won't get in again. They are determined to get the rechid trams in. Must be some massive back handers flying around in the council.
11

,

25/09/2008 12:39:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Bob 2,

25/09/2008 12:43:00
"During the construction of Edinburgh’s 21st century tram network, we would like to thank you all for your support and patience in helping to build a new and modern transport system."

Ho Ho Ho ....oops sorry thats Santa's line!!
13

Bob 2,

25/09/2008 12:48:55
TIE present , Edinburgh Mystery Tours by Bus

All for £1.10

Different routes each day, no need to pre-book, use the same bus.

Even the Driver wont know where to go.

See Edinburgh as you've never seen it before !!
14

Lothian Buses Driver,

Port Seton 25/09/2008 12:52:18
Fantastic, More overtime slips going in.
15

Fluffy,

edinburgh 25/09/2008 12:54:35
#13 LOL. I spoke to a bus driver last week and asked where the buses would be diverted via, when Princes St closes. He answered 'Fife or Glasgow dawl' - how these guys keep their sense of humour beats me!!!! They couldn't pay me enough to be a bus driver in Edinburgh at the moment!
16

Lothian Buses Driver,

Port Seton 25/09/2008 12:56:02
The overtime bill must be gigantic. The tram works have added about 1.5 hours per week extra to wage to my pay packet. No wonder they are out of pocket. Can't blame them for cutting loss making services. It's a business not a charity.
17

Unimpressed one,

25/09/2008 13:08:26
"Edinburgh will be forever known as the city that threw away millions of pounds,and nobody did any thing to stop this callous waste of money that could have been used for things that were more in need,Edinburgh is now known as a madhouse."

That all started some time ago I believe, on Calton Hill...
18

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 13:15:54
Maybe the revellers at the Hogmanay Party will bring it all to a head. 100,000 bevied people? Somebody is bound to fall into a hole/climb up a pylon/drop dead from exhaustion/just give up and go somewhere else...

Not only is this farce killing Edinburgh for the locals, it is going to kill Edinburgh as a tourist hub for years, and it will take years after that to build up again.
19

Bob 2,

25/09/2008 13:16:18
maybe a hovercraft service to Fife has its attractions

The Shops in Livingston and Glasgow must be laughing all the way to the bank

With the run up to christmas, Princes Street could be a ghost town.

Interesting, that the Pictures of the Trams show near empty streets

and they still show WIDE pavements.

Ho Ho Ho for now
20

Cumberland Sausage,

25/09/2008 13:16:54
How on earth did this crazy tram scheme get the go ahead? Was there a referendum I missed or was it decided for me?
21

Bob 2,

25/09/2008 13:22:02
there was an election of some sort!
22

Porty Pirate,

The Beach 25/09/2008 13:39:31
I think they are doing a brilliant job of diverting the bus routes due to Tram works.
It is moronic projects like removing the roundabouts at Milton Link, Duddingston Park and Kings Road that causes major delays, even when the projects are finished.
23

Bigwull,

edinburgh 25/09/2008 13:47:58
Jeeze bring back the irish navies they'd have it done in a day!
24

celtic4,

USA 25/09/2008 13:52:00
Will not be anywhere near Edinburgh next year! In the midlands of Scotland and on the Isles. That's tourism at its best.
25

AB_R,

25/09/2008 13:56:18
I had a look at the Lothian Buses web site this morning to see what changes are being made on the 5th of October and I see that the no 2 bus is no longer going to use the Fastlink.

Not too much of a surprise, but thought they might have waited until the tram was up and running first. I mean the thing was built for the tram in the first place.
26

John Knox furr First Meenister,

Embra 25/09/2008 13:57:21
#24 Good.
27

John Knox furr First Meenister,

Embra 25/09/2008 13:58:57
Bigwul, dinna know that Ireland had a navy, never mind several. Navvies, they had in plenty, mind.
28

LyonHearts,

le teil 25/09/2008 13:59:49
Two stories that always generate negative stories from Scotsman/EN journalist!

1) Anything to do with Hearts/Romanov

2) The Edinburgh Tram system!

Personally I love them both! I think it's been too long coming for a city like Edinburgh and I'd also like to see the south circular opened again!
29

AB_R,

25/09/2008 14:00:14
#21 there was an election and the elected SNP government wanted to scrap the deal, but was forced to finance the project by the opposotion parties.
30

LyonHearts,

le teil 25/09/2008 14:03:02
Drivers today warned the diversions will create gridlock in the city centre. Raymond Davidson, secretary of the Edinburgh Taxi Association, said: "This will have a massive impact.

yeah it will have a " massive impact" people will have to get out of their cars and eeerrr walk! or ride a bicycle!

We have a bicyle system where I live and it's free for the first half hour! You take a bike in one part of town cyle to where you want to go and leave it there! It's great!

We also have an excellent metro/tram and electric trolley bus service!
31

Alice in Embraland,

25/09/2008 14:09:30
If there aren't enough buses running along Princes Street then I think it is only fair for mothers with large non-folding prams to start carrying the surplus bus passengers.

Come on you young fit mums, you can't have it both ways!
32

Old Town Resident,

edinburgh 25/09/2008 14:12:30
The Canongate is closed from the 29th of this month for 4 weeks, to be resurfaced. Now as it is one of the main routes in the city (just stand for more than a min in the mornings) how will that impact on the city`s trafficalong with the Princes St closure and all the rest? I know it will be safer for children and older folk here without ten cement mixers hurtling past at once, but where will they be going instead?
33

PaulB,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 14:12:38
Well, there has not been much chaos yet due to the tram works - the buses seem to be doing their best to keep to schedule - I can't wait for the trams to be up and running. I agree though that I would not like to be a bus driver in the city just now! This forum seems to attract all the drivers who think it is their god-given right to drive into town and park directly outside the shop of their choice - perhaps if they ditched their cars, there would be less 'chaos' on the roads!
34

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 25/09/2008 14:12:48
What chaos , this is a storm in a teacup . Remember the predictions of doom when Shandwick Place closed , we are all still here . You know Labour policies work so shut up Tories .
35

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 25/09/2008 14:13:31
29 - they wanted to scrap because it might bring them a few short-term votes .
36

Boy Wonder,

25/09/2008 14:20:33
The capital should change it's name to Chaosburgh for the forseeable future!

This whole Tram nonsense should have been stopped after May 4 the last year!!!
37

LyonHearts,

le teil 25/09/2008 14:23:10
Well it looks like all you car addicts will just have to walk or cycle for a change!

Vive les trams!
38

Optimus Prime,

Cybertron 25/09/2008 14:29:15
BUILD IT AND PEOPLE WILL COME..........
39

dyon gollins's back,

Brussels 25/09/2008 14:29:33
Can't wait for the trams; all modern cities have trams; no modern city worthy of the name can survive without trams; without trams edinburgh was going dead, dodo; the trams will do more than anything to revive the centre of the city, just wait; who are complaining about the trams - taxi drivers who know a real and overwhelming competitive threat when they see it; anyway there's not long to go now - just think of it - gliding effortlessly from ingliston and the Maybury all the way to Newhaven; like I said can't wait, it can't come soon enough. And that's just the start, definitely; we'll soon see all original 28 tram lines back in operation - they should never have been scrapped of course - plus new ones to Penicuik, Dalkeith/Mayfield, Tranent and Haddington and Balerno amongst others. What lucky people we will be in Edinburgh with all these trams!!
40

Uncle Piehead,

Pie Castle 25/09/2008 14:29:58
I haven't noticed the tram works much. Trams will be cheap to use, popular, under budget and within schedule.
41

Jasbar,

25/09/2008 14:33:19
#10 You're wrong!

They will get reelected, only there will be fewer people voting next time round.

It seems that folks would rather ignore the system, because they know they can't affect it, rather than trot and try to hold the cretins in city hall accountable.

The tram line is civic vandalism. And for what? Who's pocket is benefitting here?

It's certainly not the taxpayers, nor the travelling public, nor the disrupted small businesses that are suffering to the point of bankruptcy.

Anyway, even if you voted the current bunch of miscreants out, who simply replaced the previous bunch of miscreants, then the next set of miscreants will be little more than clones of the first lot. The only way they can survive in the council bureaucracy is to allow themselves to be sucked into the unelected bureaucrats control.

It's they who are ruining our lives. The only failure of councillors is in failing to keep them under any semblance of political control.

Was a time we could have expected our media to act on our behalf to help hold them all to account. Haven't seen much of it recently in our local journals, have you?
42

Optimus Prime,

Cybertron 25/09/2008 14:39:35
#41

"Civic Vandalism" "Ruining our lives"

Away and have a lie down.

BUILD IT AND PEOPLE WILL COME.....
43

Farmernot,

25/09/2008 14:40:30
They should put up signs on all the major routes into the city ...just on the outskirts

Edinburgh Closed
44

Jasbar,

25/09/2008 14:42:15
#39 So cabbies are the one's moaning about trams because they're a competitive threat? I've only ever had one passenger who thought they were a good thing, and then because she'd seen them abroad and thought they would look good in Edinburgh to persuade us that we were "modern".

Question. How many people in the half million pound pads at Platinum point are going to walkabout round Leith and the rest of the tram line, rather than take a cab directly to the airport? No problem for us there.

Question. How many punters will hail a cab because they can't be bothered waiting for the 20 min tram schedule, particularly in inclement weather? No problem to us there.

Question. How many heavily load punters, or those with young families are going to struggle onto any form of mother and baby unfriendly public transport when they can take a friendly cab? No problem here either.

Question. How many groups of 5 or 6 are going to incur the inconvenience of any form of public transport, particularly what will prove a relatively expensive tram, rather than pay the combined fare towards a fast, convenient, friendly cab? No problem again for us.

In short, the trams will have little impact on taxi trips. I suspect demand for cabs will increase as more may be encouraged out, see the failure of the system and resort to a convenient cab.

My only objection is in spending £600 million when we couldn't afford to pay for our own hospital, which will cost10 times more over 30 years than it need have, nor can we afford to fund other essential infrastructure like education, social service provision, roads, pavements et al.
45

dyon gollins's back,

Brussels 25/09/2008 14:44:21
Time to emigrate, Jasbar; how about Brussels or Amsterdam or Rotterdam or Manchester or Bordeaux or Strasbourg or --- any city in Germany --- or Paris or Lyon or Hongkong or Prague -- why not enjoy life (and trams) for a change?
46

PaulB,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 14:54:45
I am very concerned that the huge amount of negative comments about the trams will lead to a self fulfilling prophecy and Edinburgh will close for business. It's not all bad! Some temporary disruption, but life goes on. It is highly irresponsible at a time of possible recession to talk down this city and its businesses. Edinburgh is open for business, and if there are traffic jams they are mainly caused by people who will not use public transport.This forum has been hijacked by tram opponents and the general Edinburgh whingers. Bring on the trams!
47

Optimus Prime,

Cybertron 25/09/2008 15:00:57
#46

"This forum has been hijacked by tram opponents and the general Edinburgh whingers. Bring on the trams!"

Well said that man, the negativity that exists on any attempt at spending public money for the public good is quite frankly shameful and an embarassment.

BUILD IT AND PEOPLE WILL COME.....
48

Howard Moon,

25/09/2008 15:01:07
I cannot be bothered to get into another tram debate - goodness knows there has been enough of them already. All I will say is that in my opinion those who will suffer most from this scheme are bus users and cyclists. Car users will continue to use any alternative route possible to avoid the tram route, just as they are doing at the moment.

Buses (lacking the flexibility of cars) will be forced to fight for space with trams. One lane up and down Leith Walk - buses will be slower than just now. Piccardy Place - who knows? Corstorphine? Ditto.

Sadly, the cycling lobby (for reasons known only to them) refused to speak out against this scheme at approval stage, despite its provisions for them being woefully inadequate. I can only imagine they put their anti-car beliefs before their pro-cycling ones (misguidedly IMHO). This scheme, as it stands, will set the causes of Spokes et al back years. As everyone knows, part of the route for this line is much narrower than ideal (and that's putting it very mildly), and with road and pedestrian space at a premium it is the cyclists who are going to be squeezed out.

And yet, people continually claim this monumental scheme (at least £1000 for every man, woman and child in Edinburgh, paid out of the already tight Scottish Government settlement) is a victory in the fight against selfish car drivers. I despair.
49

thehitmaster,

Penicuik 25/09/2008 15:01:54
#39, the City Centre surely will need an awful lot of reviving after this!
#25 the FASTlink isn't tram ready, so they need to close it to buses so they can convert it for use with trams.
I see the new timetables are out for the Lothian Buses service changes, the whole thing printed on one sheet of A4;
"turn up at bus stop and wait!", oh and a big picture of a bus..
I support the trams in theory but all this traffic management should have been thought out and not, as it appears to be - made up as they go..
50

Jingsitsme,

EDINBURGH 25/09/2008 15:10:39
just what we need in Edinburgh!

Since when do agencies work together? They never know what each other is doing. They just don't seem to have any plans that have been properly put together and consequences thought of.

Who in their right mind will come to Edinburgh for Christmas?

I wonder if it will still be unfinished for Christmas 2009 - perhaps abandoned by then and more money down the drain - if it's not blocked!
51

Liz,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 15:12:10
#38 and others

You seem to be equating the trams with some kind of visitor attraction. It is not, it is simply a very expensive way of getting people from A to B. Sadly anyone wanting to go to C D E F G H I J are going to be royally screwed with reduced services and increased ticket costs.
52

dyon gollins's back,

Brussels 25/09/2008 15:22:30
Agreed PaulB - all this negative publicity stems from the attitude of interest groups fuelled by biased reporting. The disruption is relatively short term - there's been just as much at Canonmills for pipe works which are nothing to do with trams - or maybe there's a secret plan to revive the 23 and 27 trams on the go. It'll all be forgotten as we glide effortlessly from Ingliston and Maybury to Newhaven etc. etc. Can't wait!
53

dyon gollins's back,

Brussels 25/09/2008 15:31:28
#51 Liz - you're right; that's why services are going to have to be extended to C D E etc. All experience, especially in France, is that once the first line is built the demand quickly builds up and further lines have to be built to meet it - see Strasbourg, Lyon, Bordeaux; the beauty of this is that it can also link into light rail to neighbouring communities often using existing track or old track bed of which there is any amount round Edinburgh - how about Penicuik to kick off with via the south East of Edinburgh, Gilmerton adn Loanhead - there's disused railway line just about all the way.
54

calum,

25/09/2008 15:54:17
Can anyone explain the rationale behind the tramLINE going along Princes Street and also there being no interchange for the Waverley Station?
55

Howard Moon,

25/09/2008 15:57:40
#53

Not sure how you can claim 'all experience' points towards that - as it patently doesn't - but you are right that everything was in place for a light rail network to be re-established in Edinburgh (including the parts due to be served by the tram) and the surrounding areas. Sadly, this ridiculous scheme was forced through instead, served up to gullable councillors on the basis that 'if you don't agree to it, Edinburgh won't get the money'.

No one want to tell me why my last post was wrong? Surely someone can explain it to me?
56

Kirsty Boyd-Williamson,

New Town - agreeably close to the tram line 25/09/2008 16:02:15
The best way to respond to the ill-informed anti-tram malcontents is to point at them and laugh.
Personally, I can barely wait for the first tram to glide along Princes Street, especially so if TIE adopts my sensible suggestion of having one coach on each tram reserved for First Class passengers.
57

Robin Bankes,

Culross 25/09/2008 16:15:15
~39 Well argued, sir! If we relied on all the whingers we would still be waiting for man to conquer Arthur's Seat.
At present I drop off my Lexus 4 x 4 at the Ingliston Park & Ride and then have to use two buses (X48 / 22) to get to Leith where I do some private consultancy work. Once the tram is operating from the airport I will be able to board it at Ingliston P&R and take it to Victoria Quay without the need for changes. An added advantage is the I will soon be in possession of a Scottish Concessionary Bus Pass and can offset the notional cost of public transport against my business tax.
58

Starkravingsane,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 16:17:27
I cycle, and wherever there are road works, it becomes infinitely more dangerous for cyclists, who are thrust in the same lane as drivers who are desperately trying to figure out which lane they in their turn should be in. This sounds like a recipe for disaster.
59

AB_R,

25/09/2008 16:19:02
Laugh at what Kirsty?

Oh wait a minute this is the usual response from the pro-tram lobby, insults and more insults.

as for ill-informed, we are spending 600 Million pounds to effectively replace one bus service, it wouldn't take much planning for the 22 bus service to continue it's journey to the airport. According to TIE figures the tram will reduce congestion by 1%, pollution will move from Edinburgh to another part of the country.

What we don't know is what bus services will be taken of the roads by the tram, it wouldn't make much sense to keep the no 22 for example, apart for the people who maybe catch it to go to work at say on the West Approach Road, where they will have to go to Shandwick Place to get the tram.

Which bit of the above is wrong? Look at the proposed tram route (not the one that was approved, but the new one).
60

The Judge,

25/09/2008 16:20:30
#56

Do you know how few tram stops there's going to be?

I've said it before but where are the passengers for the tramLINE going come from?

Why get off a bus and wait for a tram when the bus you're already on will get you there quicker and more importantly closer to where you want to go.

There isn't enough stops to make it a truly integrated system with the buses. Not that there will be many bus services left if it keeps going like its going.

Lets not forget it won't just be this Christmas, it'll be the next 4 Christmases.

At A BILLION DOLLARS(and counting) I would hope every coach is a first class coach!!

61

Andrew,

25/09/2008 16:21:15
NO trams (as yet) to the Castle/Royal Mile/Holyrood - OBVIOUS destinations, as well Edinburgh Royal etc etc.
WHY????????????????
62

Howard Moon,

25/09/2008 16:27:50
#59

You're right of course. It's one of the things people in favour of the trams never mention. Far better to stick to the 'it's trams or motorways' level of argument.
63

Kirsty Boyd-Williamson,

New Town - a 5 minute walk from the tram stop. 25/09/2008 16:47:44
>61:Judge ~ Do you know how few tram stops there's going to be?

I find the notion of some people born in Edinburgh that it is beyond their ability to walk more than 20 paces to board a bus a curious one. I warmly welcome the choice of stopping points which could hardly be more conveniently located for my purposes. It's almost as if I had chosen them myself.
64

festerlehearts,

25/09/2008 16:50:46
the cooncil are making a fine mess of our fair city .this is affecting all types of companies in a bad way by the time they finnish with the trams in 500 years there wont be any body here to use them .....stop this mess now
65

ikonoclast,

25/09/2008 16:52:24
#46. I'm sure that when the tram scheme is a dismal failure, the pro-tram lobby will try to blame the anti-tram lobby for creating a "self fulfilling prophecy".

All it will really prove is that a majority of the people didn't want the trams. Which is why the scheme should have been put to a public vote in the first place...
66

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

25/09/2008 17:03:04
It will be all worth it in the end.
67

Bigwull,

edinburgh 25/09/2008 17:05:59
What I can't understand is why they couldnt throw manpower at it and get it done inside a week. Less than 1 mile of track is going to take more than 6 months, who's laying the track "Bob the f'n Builder"
66 I believe the money was earmarked for this system/line by central government, if this was not taken up by Edinburgh we would not be not allowed to use for other purposes, such as decent council housing but instead it would be redirected to other cities
68

eDUCATIon,

25/09/2008 17:10:45
Wheres our old decrepit friend......the Tonemeister???
69

thibor,

musselburgh 25/09/2008 17:13:31
Trams , Trams , Trams , This farce just gets better by the day. The great and the good at tie dont give a rats a** about what we have to say. Niether do our esteemed and valued council. We the citizens of this city are a cash crop. I suggest that once these trams come into service then everyone should simply NOT use them . Just boycott them and when the expected revenue fails to arrive in the coffers of whatever organisation is in charge of them we should all go out and buy "I TOLD YOU SO T-SHIRTS. Let them go ahead with this monstrous scheme, then turn it into an embarrasingly huge white elephant . There are more ways than one to skin a tram.........Bide your time........Let tie carry on digging a deaper hole.
70

calum,

25/09/2008 17:16:44
#69 - Don't encourage him for goodness sake.
71

Kirsty Boyd-Williamson,

New Town 25/09/2008 17:17:36
>60:AB_R ~ Laugh at what Kirsty?

Malcontents, as stated in line one of my original post.
72

eDUCATIon,

25/09/2008 17:24:56
71

Me thinks hes off for a colostomy bag change...........
73

tumshie heid,

25/09/2008 17:34:39
Its funny how the very few people on here who are pro tram constantly say that this board has been hijacked by anti trammites. It hasn't, it's just that hardly any one wants the trams. A bloo#y disgraceful waste of money which is doomed to failure. I for one will be delighted when they grind to a halt and the whole lot are torn down in a few years.
74

piper,

25/09/2008 17:34:56
somebody wants to start cracking the whip any time you go past the tram works you never see the workers working they are either having a fag blethering or on the mobile phones. the council should have supervisors of some sort to make sure the work is getting done. i can guarantee that the work will go over schedule and the price will be like the parliament building it will go well over budget mark my words
75

gus1940,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 17:37:54
Does anybody know who it was that originally proposed this ridiculous waste of taxpayers'money?
76

argonaut,

east lothian 25/09/2008 17:39:10
I was walking around the town yesterday - a rarity these days - giant holes trenches everywhere ! perhaps we simply allow our the cash strapped MOD to order the cash strapped RAF to use our city centre for bombing runs - could the resulting damage be any more severe ???? just evacuate the citycentre for a few hrs - leaving only essential personnel i.e - greedy money men , some lawyers and council execs,with a peppering of red and blue politicians for good measure.
You see a whole bunch birds killed with just one stone !!!
77

calum,

25/09/2008 17:55:27
#75 - Do you know that in the works in Leith Walk the machine operators tip only 1.5 tons of spoil into the tippers? And the tippers take the load to Gogar? 8 miles away? And the machine operator waits for the tipper to come back? Maximum of 6 loads a day on a 12 hour shift? That's why they seem to sit around all day seemingly doing nothing.... on big money.
Any tramlINE supporter or TIE care to deny it?
78

The Judge,

25/09/2008 18:15:59
#64 So you don't know how few tram stops there will actually be.

It's a lot of things but the tramLINE will not be convenient for 99% of public transport users.

You do know the tramLINE goes nowhere near the new town?
79

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 18:26:57
#78 - and a wee bird in the Kooncil tells me there are more leaks in the new water pipes down the foot of the Walk than you'd get at Cardiff Arms Park on international day. Shop basements are flooding and all the pipes have been covered with concrete.
80

Kirsty Boyd-Williamson,

New Town - a 5 minute walk from the tram stop. 25/09/2008 18:47:19
>79: Judge:#64 So you don't know how few tram stops there will actually be.


I think my earlier response indicated that I know precisely where each stop will be. I can also tell you where each electricity sub station will be as it all a matter of public record.
The stated intention of TIE is that the system will expand in time, thereby serving more of the population. A route to the ERI has often been mentioned. My contacts at Holyrood advise that Stewart Stevenson is warming to the idea.
81

Kirsty Boyd-Williamson,

The First New Town - amazingly close to tram line 25/09/2008 19:04:46
>79: Judge ~ You do know the tramLINE goes nowhere near the new town?

Your ill-founded mutterings are becoming tiresome.
The First New Town lies between Princes Street and Queen Street with the Second New Town lying north, east and west of the First New Town. And where, pray, in the city centre does the line run in a generally east / west direction? I don't live in Princes Street nor do I live in the Second New Town and am therefore ideally placed to board a tram unless, of course, you consider a walk of approximately 5 minutes beyond normal human capability.
82

Axelfols,

25/09/2008 19:13:53
Have all you idiots who constantly moan about the trams got nothing better to do? Get a life. Its happening so learn to accept it.
83

The Judge,

25/09/2008 19:19:10
The stated intention of TIE is that the system will expand in time, thereby serving more of the population. A route to the ERI has often been mentioned. My contacts at Holyrood advise that Stewart Stevenson is warming to the idea.

See now you're just making things up as you go along.

Your contacts? Behave yourself.

Stewart Stevenson said an expansion would be a good idea, no mention of how we would pay for it, just a good idea.

I'm sure he thinks many things are a "good idea" but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

The tramLINE to no-where will cost this city dear, it will cripple the once world class bus service and nobody will use it when it's finished in 4 or 5 years time because for the simple reason the bus will take you closer to where you need to go.

If you can get to the New Town to a tram stop in 5 minutes may I suggest you get in training for the 2012 Olympics, the 100mtr gold is yours for the taking.


84

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 25/09/2008 20:01:53
Same old rubbish from the anti-trammies I see.

Now there's ''lets not use the trams and make it a failure, so we can say - we told you so''

Pathetic !

85

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 25/09/2008 20:07:00
And 87, how the f to you expect roads to be maintained ? Yeah ok lets just resurface the road whilst the traffic still runs on it. Tyre marks in the nice new soft tarmac. Doh.

If you can't talk sense then just don't talk.

And the Canongate is hardly the M8 traffic wise.

And canceled is cancelled by the way.
86

Kirsty Boyd-Williamson,

New Town 25/09/2008 20:12:00
.84: Judge ~ If you can get to the New Town to a tram stop in 5 minutes may I suggest you get in training for the 2012 Olympics, the 100mtr gold is yours for the taking.

Princes Street, as I previously indicated, forms the southern boundary of the First New Town with Queen Street forming the northern one. Tram Line 1a runs most of the length of Princes Street despite your previous claim:
"You do know the tramLINE goes nowhere near the new town?"
My home to the proposed stop on Princes Street - 5 minutes by foot!
How deep do you intend going with the hole you are currently engaged in digging for yourself?
87

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 25/09/2008 21:06:52
Yeah yeah, every tram project in the world gets built in a week or less, it's just Edinburgh Council that can't finish a 600 million pound project in a few days.

Maybe if all the greetin face motorists on here (who appear to be so concerned about the buses) didn't take their cars into the city centre (which is the REAL cause of congestion and delays to buses), then problem would be solved.
88

Bob Marley The Wailer,

parked in george street 25/09/2008 21:16:12
i dont know what all the fuss is about? the trams will be a fantastic addition to edinburgh. they look like small thomas the tank engines and just thimk off the fun all the neds will have trying to derail them on a weekend.
89

Statsman,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 21:19:45
94 Road Raga

You appear to be a communist.
90

tumshie heid,

25/09/2008 21:27:24
#94 Maybe if the council hadn't systematically destroyed the city centre over the years with it's crazy road closure/one way schemes then there wouldn't be as much congestion. The latest gem I have noticed is burning off all the zebra crossings that were installed at much cost only a few years ago on George Street and putting in traffic lights. Perhaps if the traffic planning muppets thought about moving these lights away from the roundabouts then traffic would flow easier.
As for a £600 million project, it was £500 million originally and even then it's still only 1 useless line that serves no real purpose other than allowing a few councillors to brag about their precious trainset.
91

dyon gollins's back,

Brussels 25/09/2008 21:47:39
All ye anti-trammers'll be laughing on the pther side of your trousers when you're sitting snug and gliding along to Pr St on rainy February day (maybe having interchanged along the way - temporarililly till the new tram lines are built) and then you'll all be wondering why you had any doubts in the first place! This is just the start of the greta tram comeback in Edinburgh!
92

Howard Moon,

25/09/2008 21:53:18
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why my posts (48 and 55) were wrong. Surely one of the posters in favour of the trams can tell me.

It seems interesting to me that, when presented with (relatively) legitimate, sensible argument, those in favour of the tram scheme return once again to attacking car drivers on what amounts to little more than a purely emotional level. The thinking seems to be, anyone who is against spending over half a billion pounds on this tramline must be a 4x4-driving, anti-environment, anti-public transport lunatic.

Yet when a cyclist says he is against the scheme because it will aversely affect his cycling experience, or a bus user (such as myself) is unhappy, amongst other things, at the impact it will have on an excellent service, he is ignored. Strange.
93

,

25/09/2008 22:03:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
94

Kirsty Boyd-Williamson,

New Town, an oik-free zone 25/09/2008 22:11:28
.88: rs ~ Ok Ya ....oink oink oink oink

If you were to remove the letters 'n' from the above comment, you would describe yourself with the greatest of precision.
95

Ian down under,

Musselburgh 26/09/2008 03:09:05
Why have none of the anti-trammers been to have a look at cities which have built new light-rail/tram systems? They work well and would soon show them that. One line in Nottingham has been such a success the whole area is after them and the same in Birmingham, Manchester and Dublin. Over on the European mainland they were not so daft as we were and kept their systems and with modernisation they have kept well ahead.
Cars clog cities, they are inefficient users of fuel and they each need at least twice their own space to move and to park in. If we don't have better public transport we will need more car parks and then more roads and then more demolition and then more congestion and then GRIDLOCK. Buses are not the answer for high volume routes because they lumber around belching noxious gases in yer face. They are good for light traffic routes and feeder routes but no city in the world over 400 000 people depends on buses and keeps mobile. Only light rail and heavy rail do that.
As for 4 x 4 s they are basically hiking boots on wheels but we don't seem to need to walk around the city in big knobbly boots so why drive in them. If you need to go off road onto rough and steep ground
[ that's not the car park at the mall] then have a 4x4 but in towns...no!
96

tumshie heid,

26/09/2008 08:12:26
Why have people like Ian down under posted such tripe?
Theres another question for you. How can you possibly know whether someone voicing an opposition to trams has visited another city with them?
How much of a green issue is the amount of pollution being caused to build these damn things? Where will the energy to run them come? (Hint its not the green fairies, either coal or nuclear power)
What right do you have to piously judge whether a 4x4 is required by anyone? It is nothing to do with you!
I don't have one but it's none of my business if any one else does.
97

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 26/09/2008 08:23:58
#103 - 4x4's are the most selfish, thoughtless invention ever. They guzzle huge amounts of precious fuel, pollute the air far more then the average car, take up more road space then other cars, are a greater danger to other road users and pedestrians, need I go on ?
And the vast majority of these stupid things are bought to pose in, not for practical reasons.
98

dyon gollins's back,

Brussels 26/09/2008 08:36:46
#102 Well said that man and it's time to bring trams back to Musselburgh, by the way. Soon all the gas-guzzlers will be away when the oil runs out and therefore investment now in trams will be seen as money well spent.
Of course in this country any investment ion public infrastructure is greeted with a chorus of moaning but it can be seen from other countries, as Ian Down Under has pointed out, how continued investment has contributed to their prosperity and sense of well-being.
Of course if people prefer to live in a city where the streets are clogged up with SUV's and no one can move around and the general environment is thereby destroyed to the extent that no one wants to live or do business there then that's certainly a free choice but not mine! Wait and see - this will just be the first step in the revival of the tram system of Edinburgh and I expect to see at least four more lines being built over the next Fifteen years.
99

tumshie heid,

26/09/2008 08:54:20
Road raga, the people driving them pay for the precious fuel so its their decision. I think that you are mistaken though as I doubt very much if the fuel consumption is as bad as it used to be. As for saying that they are bought to pose in , well thats their choice isn't it and what business is it of anyone else to condemn them for it?
100

tumshie heid,

26/09/2008 09:00:14
#105 when the oil runs out how will we transport parts for the precious trams? How does the coal get to the power stations to provide electricity for them?
Trams were ousted 50years ago but then there was a network which arguably should have been sustained.
However now we have a giant white elephant project causing massive disruption for the sake of a few councillors egos.
Can you seriously suggest that people in the upmarket waterfront developments will all drop their nice clean new cars and go on an inflexible tram line instead?
101

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 26/09/2008 09:55:04
Ian (102) - Just as a point of information, I believe Curitiba in South America moves 2 million passengers a day by way of a very impressive bus system.
102

wolfette,

Edinburgh 26/09/2008 11:32:00
"The disruption caused by this tram project is unbelievable and I think it is only now that we are beginning to see the full extent of it."

Ya think? You ain't even begun to see the START of it.

103

eric,

lothian 26/09/2008 11:36:12
Glasgow has right idea and away ahead of us,wish we had subway,trams are in a lot of british towns nottingham blackpool,etc .
104

wolfette,

Edinburgh 26/09/2008 11:41:51
pro-tram cyclists should talk to older cyclists who remember what it was like to cycle on Edinburgh's streets when they still had the old tram rails. Not the first cyclist who went head first over his handlebars when trying to cross a tramline at speed, or got his wheel stuck in the tramlines.

105

La La,

26/09/2008 14:08:02
so you're not allowed on a bus with a buggy unless you wake your sleeping baby to fold it up, then there's nowhere to store the buggy on the bus. Wriggly toddler meanwhile is seriously p*ssed off at having to be on the bus for over an hour whilst these tramworks are going on and has a huge paddy. No wonder shops are complaining about the loss of business - Mums are avoiding town like the plague
106

WL,

livingston 26/09/2008 15:07:15
#39
Modern (and some not so modern) cities have an underground. And Edinburgh Airport should have a train station - not a tram stop.
107

geekpie,

forfar 26/09/2008 15:52:36
Once the trams are in place, the council should put up parking charges.

If people want to bring 1.5 tonnes of steel with them into the city every day, they should pay through the nose.

There isn't space for everyone to do it, ergo it's selfish.
108

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 26/09/2008 17:57:23
29 - You can't rewrite SNP history. Yes the other parties voted trams through, yes they said they would have a vote of no confidence in the Parliament if Salmond turned the trams down but it was Salmond that backed down under pressure and rubber stamped the trams. Cowardice under pressure.

PS I and many neighbours voted SNP for 1st time because they said would scrap the tramline. Won't get fooled again.


 

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