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Ten teenage criminals guilty of more than 1600 offences

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Published Date:
05 March 2007
TEN teenagers have been responsible for a massive crime wave in Edinburgh involving mor than 1600 offences, it was revealed today.
Children as young as 14 have carried out hundreds of crimes such as robbery, serious assault, housebreaking, fire-raising and extortion. One 14-year-old from the east of the city has committed 233 offences to become the most prolific teen criminal in the Capital in the last three years.

Despite being repeatedly arrested by police, it is understood most of the "top ten" are free to roam the streets.

The figures, released under freedom of information laws, today sparked fury among politicians who called for the serial offenders to be locked up.

They criticised a "lack" of secure unit places in Edinburgh to incarcerate the worst criminals and called for new youth courts to handle such cases. Police chiefs admitted the youngster's records made "horrendous reading" as officers struggle to bring them under control.

The ten teenagers with the worst criminal histories during the past three years have carried out 1635 offences.

Police chiefs charged with tackling this "hardcore minority" have previously said persistent offenders were usually suspected of ten times more crimes than those for which they were charged. Among this group, that would swell the total to more than 16,000 offences.

Inspector Andy Gilhooley, youth justice inspector for Edinburgh, said: "There are a small number of youths who are carrying out huge levels of offending.

"It can't be denied that these statistics make horrendous reading and the impact on their local community is a big cause for concern. These are not the kids involved in antisocial behaviour, under-age drinking and vandalism. These are young criminals carrying out serious offences.

"We're working with schools, social workers, the city council and other agencies to try to stop them entering the criminal justice system and becoming hardened career criminals. But there's no simple answer."

The lack of secure unit places to lock up young offenders in Edinburgh has come under fire in recent weeks after two 14-year-old joyriders from Craigmillar caught by the Evening News were freed by the Children's Panel to go on another crime spree.

The pair were finally ordered to be locked up last month, but the city only has 12 residential places to house delinquent children under the age of 16.

Kenny MacAskill, SNP justice spokesman, said: "This supports our argument that more secure places need to be created."

Margaret Mitchell, Tory justice spokeswoman, said: "The hearing system needs more powers such as the ability to order weekend and evening detentions and drug treatment orders to youths this age. Youngsters like these should be going to youth courts to look at their behaviour at the earliest possible stage."

Councillor Andrew Burns, the city's children and families leader, defended the council's record in providing places. He said: "The number of secure beds in each local authority area is set by the Scottish Executive.

"We are extremely confident that we have enough beds to meet our current needs."

On Saturday, it was revealed that the number of young offenders in Edinburgh committing serial offences has risen over the past year. The Scottish Executive figures showed 87 children aged between eight and 16 were reported for at least five crimes during a nine-month period. The volume of persistent young offenders went up across Scotland.

40 youngsters arrested for drug dealing in last 3 years


MORE than 40 youngsters have been arrested for drug dealing in the Lothians over the past three years.

Among the arrests were a 12-year-old and two 14-year-olds charged with selling the anti-hyperactivity drug Ritalin.

It comes as it emerged up to 100 children, some as young as ten, are being arrested in Scotland every year for dealing drugs ranging from heroin and cocaine to cannabis.

Nationwide, police seized 20kg of illegal substances from child dealers, most of whom were being employed as pushers by older dealers, or had stolen supplies from relatives.

The youngest charged was a ten-year-old supplier of Ecstasy caught by Strathclyde Police.

Strathclyde Police also caught two 11-year-old heroin pushers and a 13-year-old selling cocaine.

Central Scotland found a 15-year-old selling cannabis, diazepam and cocaine, while Fife Constabulary caught a 13-year-old dealing amphetamines.

Scotland's most senior drugs enforcement officer said some children were following the bad example of celebrities, like The View's frontman Kyle Falconer.

Graeme Pearson, head of the Scottish Crime and Drugs Enforcement Agency, said: "Prominent people and celebrities who call for drugs to be decriminalised are not helping.

"Young people are using what they say as justification for trying drugs.

"Kyle Falconer now has an opportunity to put it all behind him and choose whether he is going to be a drug abuser or a musician of real note, but he can't be both."

The ten most prolific young offenders in Edinburgh


A 14- ear-old from East Edinburgh responsible for 233 crimes, including theft, vandalism, theft of a motor vehicle, fireraising and assault.

A 15-year-old from North Edinburgh responsible for 224 crimes, including fireraising, theft, robbery, threats, racial abuse, vandalism and assault.

A 15-year-old from South West Edinburgh responsible for 167 crimes, including vandalism, assault and fireraising.

A 15-year-old from North Edinburgh responsible for 161 crimes, including racial abuse, assault, theft, vandalism and robbery.

A 15-year-old from South Edinburgh responsible for 152 crimes, including fireraising, theft of a motor vehicle, assault and racial abuse.

A 16-year-old from North Edinburgh responsible for 151 crimes, including vandalism, drug offences, theft, serious assault and possession of an offensive weapon.

A 17-year-old from North Edinburgh responsible for 146 crimes, including theft of a motor vehicle, robbery, extortion, theft, serious assault and possession of a weapon.

A 17-year-old from Central Edinburgh responsible for 145 crimes, including theft, robbery, racial abuse and assault.

A 16-year-old from Central Edinburgh responsible for 145 crimes, including theft, racial abuse, drug offences and assault.

A 16-year-old from South Edinburgh responsible for 111 crimes, including theft of a motor vehicle, vandalism, assault, racial abuse, threats and extortion.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 March 2007 2:47 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Youth crime
 
1

Brendan,

05/03/2007 12:44:36

233 offences..... I'm sure that a little care and understanding is all that is needed to turn this young imp away from his current lifstyle choice. zzz

2

john 1,

05/03/2007 12:47:00

Like Brendan you have to see the sadly funny side. They have "rights" but what happened to everyone else's rights. Just numbers on a page here but distress to 1600 others rights.

3

Paul Voltaire,

www.paulvoltaire.spaces.live.com 05/03/2007 12:47:24

If there is no consequence of anti-social behaviour, it will continue and the neds will just have a laugh.If there is no 'secure places', they should go to prison.
It seems they have all the rights as the perpetrators of crime whereas the victims have none.

4

,

05/03/2007 12:49:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 418616, Article id was mapped to record!
5

Angus Mcdonald,

Edinburgh 05/03/2007 12:51:42

If these Imbeciles are caught smashing anything up or causing damage of any kind to property then bailiffs should be given the power to go to their house and smash up or Repossess goods to the vaue of what they've destroyed. The rascals should then be named and shamed.

6

Darren, Edinburgh,

05/03/2007 12:53:10

I thought Labour were boasting they were tough on crime?! I hope it is not Labour politicians that are complaining, because it is the party they represent that are ultimately responsible.

7

Hangmhigh,

05/03/2007 12:53:10

I know they are only kids but why not name them? If all else fails maybe their parents would feel some embaressment...... but then again probably not.

8

Immutable Name,

of Toll-X 05/03/2007 12:53:13

Aren't the children's pannels working well?

9

elayne,

fife 05/03/2007 12:58:05

i reckon these little horrors prob dont know any better,i reckon also most of them have prob been brought,or rather ,dragged up by ned families with no respect and probably little schooling,so they think its cool to amass a charge sheet the length of their arm,the kids need dealt with harshly of course,but i think the parents,lack of parental control,or simply parents not giving a damn is also a factor in this.the parents should be held accountable for thier kids actions!as ive said in the past stupid people breed stupid kids,this coupled with ned/chav culture is all to obvious,these kids and thier parents should be dealt with as harshly as possible

10

steve 1511,

05/03/2007 12:59:13

more cases that a good birching would cure

11

Jakey Rowling,

05/03/2007 13:00:39

So the politicians are furious and want the serial offenders locked up.
They are in a position to do something about it, why don't they actually try and deal with this.
More action, less words as public opinion would be behind them.

12

www.mevbrown.org.uk,

Edinburgh 05/03/2007 13:00:46

Many members of the public have this daft notion that if you call the police regarding teenage crime they can do something about it.

This story, at last, blows that notion out of the water.

The Labour party has systematically disempowered the police, teachers and parents.

And this is the result.

And the other parties were presumably paying attention, taking part in the debates and voting on these issues. So they can’t hold up their hands in horror and shout “We will do something about this, vote for us”, with ANY credibility.

The public are, rightly, feed up with politicians for overseeing the damage to civilised society.

I am standing on May 3, focusing on NHS and law & order issues, visit www.mevbrown.org.uk

13

scunneredddddd,

05/03/2007 13:18:54

#5 'If these Imbeciles are caught smashing anything up or causing damage of any kind to property then bailiffs should be given the power to go to their house and smash up or Repossess goods to the vaue of what they've destroyed. The rascals should then be named and shamed'

thats just an ambarrasing comment

14

Iain fae Elgin,

London 05/03/2007 13:20:17

That's too easy #6, blaming the government.

There's no one to blame here but the feckless parents and their idiot children.

15

Alex.,

05/03/2007 13:27:49

The children's panel tutors tell the trainees that the only thing that matters is the child, that is, the offender. The offender only has to pretend they are sorry to avoid being locked up. The victims don't matter. If you are not pc you don't get on the panel. It's time the pc brigade were moved out of positions of power and let some realism take place!

16

sergiesmax,

05/03/2007 13:30:12

what they need is a good kicking but if you do it your in court and locked away for one offence while these little gits just keep on going.I can hear him now thats me ive got 233 offencies am in the paper. the little rat faced git.They should give out there names and address then these 233 victims of crime can go to there house and drag the little git and his family outside and hand out justice

17

alex paterson,

embra 05/03/2007 13:34:24

#3 Indeed,If our prisons are full,Build new ones now.

18

Jack the lad,

05/03/2007 13:34:55

Mev I’m beginning to dislike you. As I’ve said before you're a 4th rate failure of a politician who, in my opinion is using this site inappropriately. You can stand all you like, you'll be sitting in your house on the 4th May.

I think rather than your notion of the Police not doing something about it when they are able point to the huge number of offences these scum have committed (and been caught for) proves, beyond reasonable doubt, that the police are doing something and they do have the powers. I would suggest its your mostly Tory friends in the judiciary that are letting public down by not locking them up.

I’m not sure who you think has disempowered parents, I don’t feel disempowered when looking after my three fine young children, but I do seem to recall the disempowerment of teachers came about during the 80s and 90s, most of which were your good lady Thatchers years.

Its always been the same under successive failed Tory and failed Labour governments and local authorities that 98% of the crime is committed by 2% of the population. And don’t think for a second smug Liberals, SNP, SSP or self publicising independents like Mev will make a difference. Not while the arrogant judiciary carry on the way they are.

19

chico,

Edinburgh 05/03/2007 13:38:36

This kind of behaviour cannot be tolerated but what is the actual cause.
The "PC" world that we now live in has led to this anti social behaviour. Youngsters think, and it would appear that they are correct, that they can get away with anything.
Parents are not allowed to raise their voice to them or clip them round the ear for fear of being prosecuted themselves.
Police are'nt allowed to do anything because it may interfere with their "human rights". Enough is enough we want more police patrols on the streets and tougher jail terms when they are caught.
We need to stop this now maybe its time to get the army on the streets in the UK before it is too late and complete anarchy rules

20

Franklin,

05/03/2007 13:39:10

Send them to Iraq and let's see what they can do there.

21

TheGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 05/03/2007 13:40:37

How do you deal with this?

Jailing the parents would make the matter worse.
Jailing the kids would cost us money and simply wouldnt work.

Given that we cannot rehabilitate repeat offenders, we simply need harsher jails to make people realise that their anti social actions are going to result in severe dire consequences for them.

Stick them in prison where:-
There will be no early release.
There will be no TVs, novels, radios, newspapers or telephone calls. There will only be 'educational' books.
Prisoners must work for their keep. Either in chain gangs doing infrastructure labour or generating electricity using manually operated dynamos.
8 will share a cell. 4 doing 12 hr shifts while the other 4 sleep, eat and read in the cell.
Prisoners get one square meal per day but only after a successful shift. If they do not pull their weight, they will get a bare minimum bread and water supplement.
The third sentence will be a life term or death (their choice).
There will be no medical or dental services whatsoever. If you cannot get up for food/work and are stinking the cell out, your cellmates are free to dump you out in the yard.

If you repeatedly demonstrate that cannot fit into society, you should be excluded from society. I don't want to pay to keep a ned alive only for him to stab or slash my kids... In days gone by, people like these would have been (quite rightly) thrown to the lions.

22

Lena,

Edinburgh 05/03/2007 13:58:25

Bring back the birch!

23

elayne,

fife 05/03/2007 13:59:58

#21 your talking sense!!!!!SOMETHING needs to be done,these little halfwits are usually academically not clever but clever regarding thier rights etc,the parents should be jailed too for raising such horrid obnoxious kids,they should perhaps set up camp type places run on a prison./tough regime and drum the smartass and ned behaviour out of them

24

John Knox for First Meenister,

High St, Embra 05/03/2007 14:06:17

#12 Mev "I am standing on May 3, focusing on NHS and law & order issues"
Well, whoop de doo! And after all this focussing, Mev, what's the answer o wise one?
Don't pack in yer day job old son.

25

Knock em' doon!,

Meadowbank 05/03/2007 14:06:28

Throw them all in NIddrie.Then build a cage 50' high, then forget about them!
See? nae Problemo!!!

26

Knock em' doon!,

Meadowbank 05/03/2007 14:08:28

(22-Lena)

I see you like the birch.I much prefer the willow tree myself.

27

Mallory,

05/03/2007 14:11:53

There is an interesting experiment ongoing in Birmingham and featured today on BBC Radio 4.

A group of muslim youths who had caused problems were taken to Mecca and are being confronted with how the their actions were not only against their religion but against their neighbours.

They were amazed that shopkeepers didn't need to lock up property. Youth workers in Brum are cautiously optimistic that the process may well change behaviour.

Maybe some of our unruly youithgs could be sent to places such as Malawi to see real poverty and lack of opportunity.

28

ianpg,

Musselburgh 05/03/2007 14:14:46

Jack McConnell and Cathy Jamieson should hang their heads in shame. This nonsensical situation is getting worse each day. Quite clearly, the 'childrens reporter' process is a waste of time and money in terms of measurable outcome. My observation is that this outfit is run by 'mother earth' types who would otherwise be filling-in forms for some other farcical department in the Scottish Executive. Jack and Cathy - while you're both still in power - do us a favour, get up of your backside's and do something, anything about this unacceptable situation.

29

Lena,

05/03/2007 14:30:28

26 - very funny!

30

Knock em' doon!,

Meadowbank 05/03/2007 14:43:03

27 MALLORY!!!

I too hate unruly "youithgs" ,, yeah! youithgs.tut! Its years since I saw one.Do they still come in green?

31

,

05/03/2007 14:57:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 419295, Article id was mapped to record!
32

unbiased,

On my high horse 05/03/2007 14:59:48

Agree with Jack the Lad and John Knox - go away Mev - I looked at your web link. Excuse me, the NHS was asset stripped in the late eighties and early nineties by the Tories! SO THERE!

On the issue in question, I agree that it is not all the kids' fault, but their parents who have not instilled into them the ethos of right and wrong.

33

Darren, Edinburgh,

05/03/2007 15:05:14

Re no 14, yes, the kids and their parents are to blame for their actions, but the Labour government is responsible for law and order legislation. They have totally failed the electorate in this respect. There is no deterrent for youths not to commit crime in this country and until that is resolved more and more youths will continue to offend. The whole system is weighted against what is in the best interests of the vast majority in this country, both young and old. The rights and welfare of the general public must be taken account of in addition to the needs of the offender. At the moment the victims rights and welfare are totally ignored by the youth justice system. Labour have had their chance and blown it. It is time another party, with a more robust approach was given an opportunity.

34

ddmc,

05/03/2007 15:22:12

#21 I like the human dynamo idea, never thought of that, my option would be chain gang, the only thing criminals are scared of ' a hard days work'

35

Youth Worker,

Midlothian 05/03/2007 15:23:22

As a youth worker who works with youths who are young offenders I have to agree with Darren at 33. The Labour Government claimed they would not tolerate youth crime,and yet youths are ruling the streets of this country. The police have their hands tied and are not allowed to do their jobs. ASBOS were brought into try and gain control and yet councils will not support the police in serving them. Teachers have had all disciplne taken away and so pupils are running riot both in school (when they attend)but mainly on the streets terrifying communities and instead of being punished they are being rewarded!!!! Projects are set up and paid for by the tax payer for these youths to attend trips ie. ski-ing, water sports, go-karting etc. Its no wonder they are running wild commiting crimes, if they stay in school and work hard they get nothing, if they roam the streets causing mayhem they are sent away on holiday and taking on adventure sports weekly! Where is the justice in that?

36

tomais,

Newington 05/03/2007 15:25:34

SHARIA LAW ! Now will you believe me?

37

xcazx,

edinburgh 05/03/2007 15:53:38

nothing works for these kids they are all losts causes they will only be something done about them when they commit serious crimes such as murder etc.

38

Higgy,

05/03/2007 15:59:36

hello.

39

_higgy_,

05/03/2007 16:02:38

hello

40

keit011,

edinburgh 05/03/2007 16:21:51

young people do have it a lot easier now what they cant rob the mums will buy them .the army will do them some good but when i was in the army the drugs dealers were there as well. only some borderline hooligans changed there ways the others learned more ways of being little well trained crims.there will have to be other ways like community service street sweeping or road gangs with tough gangers to make these guys suffer

41

keit011,

edinburgh 05/03/2007 16:25:54

that would solve the problem of edinburgh beig scotlands worst maintained road and litter problem that was in last weeks news

42

kirky,

edinburgh 05/03/2007 16:34:05

what i would do is fine or jail the parents then maybe they would keep the little sh*** under control.

43

an interested party,

05/03/2007 16:37:48

we have, as a society, have already failed these young people.

you all seem so happy to discard those that are less well off than yerself, all so happy to start the 'blame' game'. but i hear no viable solutions suggested just some things that stem from our less civilised past.

I am not making excuses for any criminal here. you do the crime you do the time. but if someone as young as 14 is a repeat offender then they are a responsibility of the system. if they then commit numerous crimes thereafter it is they system that has failed and bears some of the responsibility.

if we are to allow this failing our youth to continue, then we can expect any number of other kids to fill their boots. the problems still exist the environment is still the same. and we have to pay to keep these 10 inside, inside another institution with a long line of apparent success and great record of reducing re offending, NOT

oh and i think the idea of sending young kids on courses and outward bound adventures is to give them a chance to see and do something that perhaps they have never done before, you know give them a reason to live, a desire perhaps, even god forbid HOPE.

and all I read here is destruction of that hope, lets get them on board our ship of civilisation rather than laffing at them trying to swim to keep up.

44

Agent 99,

05/03/2007 16:49:58

[12] Mev its Brown and from Edinburgh:

You have to see the supreme irony in this. Here you are contributing comment on law and order issues, those very themes on which you build your candidature for election on May 3, and yet you actually have nothing, yes, absolutely nothing, to offer the public in the way of a policy on this kind of delinquency.

There is one minor glimmer of something in your post: That people are fed up with politicians. Yer right. This is the only thing of value that you've contributed. Same as practically all of your posts on other threads. Can we expect more of the same [i.e. nothing] when, and in the unlikely event if, you are elected?

You appear particularly skilful at flogging your website, but how about actually coming up with a comment, policy, statement or something that would give someone the inclination to vote for you? Come on, make a statement about what YOU will (not would but WILL) do if you're lucky enough to fool enough of the people...

Before you turn round to rebut my assertions, bear in mind that it is you, not me, that is standing for election. Best behaviour now...And some real answers please, not sound bites.

45

Open Minded,

Nowhere Perfect 05/03/2007 16:51:50

This article is yet another example of Society and the structure and rules supposed to make it better for all of us, just not working.

One of the reasons often put forward for "failure" is lack of resources / funding. Here we have "youngsters" who (barring accidents, drug overdoses etc) will probably evolve into adults inflicting greater stress and discomfort on society. And different problems to be dealt with but again, not resolved.

Why not get these young misguided people linked into a system of community improvement. Litter, Graffiti, Anti Vandalism etc in their own community.

The cycle, and a vicious one, has to be broken

I am not sure what you would use to keep them in the programme. It would have to be something much more unpleasant to them! But before all you PC, anti slave gang people reach for your keyboards, just think.

If a project that could actually improve a community and educate and (heaven forbid) introduce an alien concept (the work ethic), is it not worth trying ? When funding and resources are not available, we have to look at other ways of getting the job done.

46

Concerned Citizen,

Edinburgh 05/03/2007 16:54:20

Its about time that all politicians got on top of this situation and stop pussy foot and deal with is on a practical level. Stop playing politics with this an get on a get solutions in place now. This problem is affecting real peoples welfare and health.

- more police on the streets ,if you have spent our taxes on more policing then show it.
- harsh sentences for the 10 more hardcore trouble makers.
- get them off the streets tonight.

If you can count them then you know who they are.
If you can count what they have done then you then you don't need any more evidence to sentence them.

We want results not statistics.

47

Dougie, Edinburgh,

05/03/2007 17:02:55

42. an interested party
How utterly naive. It's attitudes like yours which are responsible for the farcical situation we have now. You should try to do a little less feeling for manipulative criminal scum and a little more for their victims

48

Agent 99,

05/03/2007 17:06:17

[42] Interested Party: Tsk Tsk. That's the sort of sentiment that will get you hanged round here. Don't you understand that we're all out for blood?

>>"oh and i think the idea of sending young kids on courses and outward bound adventures..."

Privileges must be earned. Giving these things as a reward for antisocial behaviour is self-defeating. How will the delinquent either gain respect for society, or for that matter him/herself when they only have to misbehave to be rewarded?

Please enlighten us.

49

unbiased,

05/03/2007 17:16:58

Boswell- if you check out Mev's site, he has no policies yet! 2 months to go and NO policies! Says "Under Construction"

50

Suck-McCrunchie,

05/03/2007 17:17:48

Each and every one a budding MSP.

51

elayne,

fife 05/03/2007 17:21:40

these kids do need educated,they have usually had little or no moral guidance or social responsibility taught at home so they think its ok to get into criminal behaviour and generally be a nuisance and hey its ok!all they get is an asbo,which is like a badge of honour amongst the underclass/neds,how can kids be brought up to be responsible etc when in a lot of cases the parents are thick and coudnt care less,bad parenting is a lot of the blame.punish the parents too,take away there benefits,flat screen tvs,cars,computers,playstations,crazy frog cds(thats the parents im talking about!)sometimes sadly you cant teach people who are dumb and ingrained with that type of mentality

52

LMG,

The Burgh 05/03/2007 17:27:08

Little B's!!! Can you imagine the crappy upbringing they've had too? My parents went through me if I got a punishment exercise at school, nevermind 233 criminal offences. I wish it was legal to name and shame them...oh, no, hold on...they have no shame. Hence the reason they're already a drain on society. They'll never even contribute a fraction of the cost back into society they've cost the rest of us in legal aid and prosecution time and police time.

I'd never let my kids behave like that - hope their parents realise how crap they are. Hopefully they don't have any more. Unlikely though, there's probably a brood of 10...

53

musicismylife,

05/03/2007 17:29:23

In my young day everybody knew who the local teen hoods were! Name them and shame them! And if THAT doesn't work, put them up in Parliament Square in stocks so everyone sees them and pelts them with rotten fruit and veg! That'll teach 'em! Kids hate being embearrassed!

54

Agent 99,

05/03/2007 17:37:09

[48] Unbiased. Thanks for the confirmation. I suspected as much.

It's also interesting that the first sign of anyone rising to his bait or challenging him on these threads and that's him...gone. Deafening silence.

'Bout what you might expect from a politician.

55

elayne,

fife 05/03/2007 17:37:28

#51,true enough,these type usually have a high capacity for breeding,yeah they have no shame either,you just got to watch trisha or jeremy kyle show to see the type i mean,complete scum,no wonder there kids are running riot.

56

Kieran of Kitchener.,

Ontario, Canada. 05/03/2007 17:41:40

You aint seen nothin' yet! Just wait 'til these neds start to breed, if they haven't already, and produce a strain of Superneds. Look out Jack!

57

simply the best....,

edinburgh 05/03/2007 17:43:56

@25 this is nothing to do with niddrie as a place , its a handfull of individuals, i wish people would NOT judge us all on what these wee b4stards do . no need for it . we are all different .

58

TheGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 05/03/2007 17:46:29

#42 an interested party, 'we have, as a society, have already failed these young people'.

Yeah, 10 teenagers convicted of more than 1600 offences. Perhaps you are right! We as a society let their parents breed. We as a society make life too easy too many anti social misfits who have no intention of working and therefore show no intention of gaining an education (the same free education that is placed in front of everyone in this country). The parents take no responsibility for their life as they know they will be continually looked after - they do not even take responsibility for bringing their kids.

The first rule the parents and children should learn is that breaking the law will not be tolerated. How do we teach them this? We do nothing. In some cases we even reward them. The time has come to get brutal with them.

59

Toast,

05/03/2007 17:48:40

Name and shame followed by boot camp
#42 wake -up,nobody makes them rob & steal

60

Agent 99,

05/03/2007 17:48:53

[52] Musicismylife: Probably the first realistic suggestion we've had here. The stocks.

Anonymous neds in their hoody gear and ubiquitous chav hats can't be shamed, since they're essentially faceless.

But being made captive AND a fool for everyone to laugh at is another matter. That's a serious dent in the street cred.

Now if only there was a way to combine the stocks with TheGlaswegian's suggestion [21] of manually operated dynamos I think we would have the start of a solution.

61

Repton,

edinburgh 05/03/2007 17:49:15

Let`s count to ten and try and be as calm as I can.Right,why do we have this problem and what can we do.Firstly let`s tell the do gooders their day is done.We`ve got to get back to basics.Basics being ,what is right from wrong.Wrong is ,what we`ve allowed to exist in our society over the last 40 years and get away with under the excuse of they`ve had a hard life.Right is to tell these people who pepetrate these crimes that we as a nation will not tolerate this any more.The next Parliament must make this a number one priority as the way I see it we will have a nation of ferral children completely out of control.Enough is enough ,time to act now.

62

simply the best....,

edinburgh 05/03/2007 18:01:36

well people should'nt judge us all . because i agree these kids are little b4stards but no need for comments like no 25's.

63

Tillybud,

05/03/2007 18:25:01

These slime balls are laughing in the face of authority. The KNOW they can get away with it so they have nothing to lose. When they do get caught they are treated like royalty with trips away and treats, no wonder they re offend as there is no deterant.

Honest hard working folk are totaly fed up with this and all the crazy excuses that are drip fed to the public.
'Well he comes from a broken home' 'He lost his mum/dad/ granny to cancer'
Well I know loads of folk who come from a broken home and they have turned out ok, work hard and keep out of trouble. I have also lost close members of my family to cancer but I don't go round being anti social.

These kids are just plain evil and no amount of ski trips, bonding trips etc will change them.
They will amount to nothing, end up in jail, scrounge off the tax payer for life and most likely spawn more like them because they know no better and don't want to find out.

64

In the know....,

05/03/2007 18:29:06

I used to teach some of these wee neds and the best thing the authorities could do with them is to let their victims have 5 minutes in a locked room with them. Either that or send them to Iraq or Afghanistan. The we would see how tough these wee sh1tes are.

65

Agent 99,

05/03/2007 18:50:03

[63] In the know.... (and others): There have been implicit suggestions that military service would do these jokers no end of good.

Disagree. I can't imagine anything worse than putting an SA-80 into the hands of one of these jerks. You'll just end up with someone who's not just antisocial but a positive and ultra violent menace to civilian society on leaving the army. Your proposed first alternative of 5 minutes with their victims is also no guarantee of a submission to overwhelming force; some would fight back or resist just for the cachet.

Like sending young people to prison, which teaches them "a trade", such ideas as military service have to be seriously misguided in these cases.

The "treatment" regime has to be one that is so onerous that they are desperate to get away from it and will do anything to command the respect of the decision maker that has the power to free them. Unfortunately, such regimes tend to become the domains of tyrants and sadists (a minor operational snag).

When I was a teenager I heard about the military borstals that existed at that time. No, I wasn't in one myself. These places had a regime that made the inmates do everything on the double. From the moment of waking, through work and learning. Eating too. It was reported that those that survived did not reoffend. But then those were different days...

66

Bell-the-Cat,

05/03/2007 18:59:54

I have worked with these kids, and in secure, 99% become pleasant children for a short space of time, due to clear boundaries, and logical ENFORCED consequences that are consistently enforced. There are NO grey areas. However, on the street, they know they are untouchable by the law in almost all cases, and offend with impunity. They make lots of money through crime, and make even more for the fagin-characters who use their relative legal untouchability to get them to do the sharp-end crime for them. By the time they enter the adult criminal justice system they are well-connected, and well-connected, and gaol is just but an inconvenience to these career criminals.

Sadly, I now conclude that hundreds more secure places, and thousands more prison cells are the short-to-medium term answer for Scotland. Swingeing, very long sentences are the only answer to keep the new, hugely indulged, criminal aristocracy off the streets while long term social engineering is carried out that places respect, tolerance, care for self and community, at the heart of Scottish society. Many social workers need to be recruited from the realms of those who inhabit the real world too.

67

Bell-the-Cat,

05/03/2007 19:01:37

They're so 'well-connected' it did need saying twice, but 'well-respected' has its place too ;-)

68

A Scot in exile,

Canada 05/03/2007 19:13:27

"We're working with schools, social workers, the city council and other agencies to try to stop them entering the criminal justice system and becoming hardened career criminals. But there's no simple answer."

A little late for that, I think! Give them the "short, sharp, shock" treatment in the beginning, knock the stuffing out of them.

69

A Scot in exile,

Canada 05/03/2007 19:20:01

Way to go 21. I like your thinking!

70

simply the best....,

edinburgh 05/03/2007 19:24:33

@63 so you know who they are then?

71

simply the best....,

edinburgh 05/03/2007 19:48:25

does anyone know any of these kids.

72

elayne,

fife 05/03/2007 19:54:43

i think that they should be publicly humiliated(eg given the bloody birch in public)"but they are kids"i can hear the pc brigade say,well if your old enough to do the crime etc!the parents should be held accountable and made to pay hefty fines from their benefits/wages and all made to publicly appologise to the victims of thier crimes,even at primary school you can tell who is going to be a ned in a few years,ned culture should be stamped out!!!scotland is full of tracky wearing layabouts and their brattish offspring

73

Adamski,

Edinburgh 05/03/2007 19:57:59

A simple bullet in the head is the answer for these 10 leeches on society.

74

One-man-bucket's older twin,

05/03/2007 20:05:13

#27 Mallory - I agree with you, but I wish you'd learn to type so it doesn't take so long to figure out what you mean.

Sure, send the bu99ers abroad - but to live and work as people in thrid-world countries do. Let the survivors back only if they can prove they've reformed.

I'd also make their parents do community service in this country - many of them are 'not economically active' (at least, not legally so) so let them spend all their daylight hours cleaning the streets, removing grafitti and other highly-visible but unpopular and boring tasks before they get their dole.

75

One-man-bucket's older twin,

05/03/2007 20:06:07

Sorry Mallory, line 3 last work should read 'third'.

76

One-man-bucket's older twin,

05/03/2007 20:06:36

Oh well.

77

Gonnaenodaethat,

Edinburgh 05/03/2007 20:15:56

#70 yes I do and they're scum. They run riot through the streets at all hours of the night. Probably tucked up in bed all day!! Why cant the 16 and 17 year olds be named? Also the two "latest" murders in the North have been carried out by 2 brothers but you'll never hear about that will you? makes me pigging angry that wee sh1ts like this get to destroy MY stuff and get away with it. Lock em up and let them serve hard time. No luxuries. Just a long hard sentence.

78

simply the best....,

edinburgh 05/03/2007 20:24:42

@76 come on then name 1 and i will name another lets see if you really know these kids.

79

Gonnaenodaethat,

Edinburgh 05/03/2007 20:27:53

Not gonna name them. Do you think I'm daft. Just google murder west pilton and see what you come up with.

80

Cannyk8 canny w8t,

05/03/2007 20:28:45

I came from a broken home - my father was killed in a road accident on the newly opened dual carriageway between Hamilton and Motherwell in 1955 (I was 6). My mother was therefore a single mother, we did not have much (I got free school dinners), Mum got nothing because Dad had been a poultry farmer (self employed) in 1946 and had gone bust (no welfare payments therefore). I and my two elder brothers did not end up as delinquents - we have made a positive contribution to society. So what is all this about deprivation!

81

Robert12,

Edinburgh 05/03/2007 20:29:07

Part of the problem here is that these young people are most probably disillusioned at life. Their parents most probably couldn't care less what their kids get up to (I'm sure the excuse would be "Ah cannae control him"). What opportunities are there for them if they can't afford to go to Uni and haven't been able to get the right grades to get a job? Half of them probably wouldn't even have some smartish clothes to wear to a job interview. No trades for them to do anymore.

As a result they have a future of collecting the dole to look forward too. Probably they'll stay in the same area as their parents did and spend their time smashing things to release the anger they feel against society. People can see there are plenty of organisations trying to get young peoples' points of view regarding the areas they live in and what could be done, but young people see this as being "sad" and "geeky" and as a result the ones that need the service the most won't use it.

Giving the young people involved a good kicking or putting them in prison is no good. Making them face their victims may be a good start though.

82

MGJ,

05/03/2007 20:31:34

How many of these offences actually ever reach a childrens hearing for consideration? I saw a lad last week; allegedly 60 offences since January but not one on paper before us 2 months later. Fiscals still deciding what to do with them. He'd spent months in secure but there were no resources when he got out so he wandered back into old habits, with old mates.

And many of these offences are technical; the numbers sound bad but stealing a car is 3 offences (no license, no insurance as well as the theft), so it is easy to rack them up.

Yes, there are no secure beds available but the Executive put money into tagging pilots that haven't worked. One tag in 2 years, and the guy got that off the next day.

Biggest way to stop them offending; work on the girls. If their girlfriend tells them it's not cool, they soon stop. Anecdotally, that is the one thing that produces big gaps in their offending histories.

83

simply the best....,

edinburgh 05/03/2007 20:32:09

@78 no not at all but you proberly dont know any of these kids, do you name 1 no surnames involved.

84

simply the best....,

edinburgh 05/03/2007 20:38:13

@
78 you must stay local if they destroy your stuff.

85

Cannyk8 canny w8t,

05/03/2007 20:47:05

#83 What does that mean?

86

Conan,

Here 05/03/2007 20:55:33

Birch with vigour!

87

simply the best....,

edinburgh 05/03/2007 20:59:39

@84 who rattled ur cage.

88

Cannyk8 canny w8t,

05/03/2007 21:06:38

Simply the Best - it was a simple question, please give me and everyone else out there an answer - don't understand what you mean - what do you mean "you must stay local". If that was the case you wouldn't be posting on a national /international site. Get real and fill in the chip on your shoulder!

89

Cannyk8 canny w8t,

05/03/2007 21:10:11

#86 YOU DID

90

In the know....,

05/03/2007 21:15:56

No 70 - I have a fair idea who some of these characters are. If you remember the bus that was stolen by joyriders at asda jewel, i taught them when they bothered to come to school. If you also recall the article in the news a few weeks back that included photos of the neds torching cars in fields, I could i.d. the kids despite the pixelation of their faces. They are lost causes. Believe me, these guys will feature in the paper for years to come, until they get murdered.

91

GorgieRepublic,

05/03/2007 21:48:30

If there are no secure places why not reintroduce public stocks? Stick the wee scunners in them in the middle of town with large baskets of rotten fruit to fling at them as they are locked in the stocks (this way we help them to their '5 a day' too, a win-win scenario). Of course, if some of them freeze to death overnight in the stocks that would be a terrible shame...

92

citizen smith,

midlothian 05/03/2007 21:59:32

Boot Camp - Stop rewarding bad behaviour, one day we are going to ask what the hell hit us, to many do gooders, to much about these thugs rights.
Disipline starts in the house with the parents, non in the school now, and litterally non in society.
Victims of crime are the ones who should have the day trips, the holidays and the rewards not the tow rags who are causing havoc, wake up people, it is already becoming to late, we need to sort the rot, all parties across the spectrum unite and fix it.

93

Conan,

Here 05/03/2007 22:11:50

Boot camp? Stocks? All far too complicated.

Just do like they used to do in the formerly crime-free Isle of Man - before they embraced the EEC's madness which put a stop to this very effective punishment ..... birch the little barstewards until their bowels surrender. Name one who came back for a second dose?

Video tape the proceedings and show it to the little wannabe criminals on their very first arrest, regardless of age - tell them they're looking at their future next time they're caught.

Give it a shot - I do believe it WILL work.

It is God's work - we will be saving them from themselves!

94

the droothy neebur,

06/03/2007 00:24:55

Is anyone surprised? We are raising a generation feral children.

When children are not in the company of adults who discipline and teach them, the result is terrible. This is what is happening. CHildren do what they want, when, where and how.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsfvSWljqpc

95

syntax,

Edinburgh 06/03/2007 00:38:22

So 1.8 million people sign a petition against road charging and the Government simply ignores and dismisses it..... Does anyone who posts here really think that the politicians and Council leaders give a damn about your expressed views ?

I see a number of people want names ? Hell that's easy. I've been collecting newspaper cuttings of young offenders since 1974. Names of families who are the main offenders are well known to the police, social workers and local communities. The trouble is there is nothing you can do to them or about them. That's the sad truth......

There are not enough secure places (but we all know that) and even if we had them nothing would change..... I have a letter from a head of social work which clearly states that a young person who had attempted murder would not necessarily get a place in a secure unit ? Good God ! What does a youngster actually have to do to get him/herself locked up !! Multiple murders ?? Probably even that wuld not be sufficient.......

96

sandy,

USA 06/03/2007 00:57:01

interesting, a story about "underage" criminals, & the most important word is not used....parents.
do they have parents? or are they under the care of the "schools,social workers, city council & other agencies"??

97

McBUNKEY,

MASSACHUSETTS, USA 06/03/2007 01:35:37

OH SURE, JAIL THE PARENTS...THEIR BRATS DON'T RESPECT SOCIETY...THEY DON'T RESPECT THEIR PARENTS. WHAT CAN PARENTS DO IF THE 'KIDS' DON'T REPECT THEIR AUTHORITY/ WON'T 'OBEY THEM'. IF PARENTS BEAT THE 'KIDDIES' OR LOCK THEM IN A CLOSET, THE PARENTS GO TO JAIL. (DOES ANYONE THINK THE LITTLE DARLINGS 'LISTEN' TO PARENTS OR ANY ADULT?) BUT, OUR POLITICIANS WON'T JAIL THESE LITTLE DARLINGS NO MATTER WHAT THEIR CRIME.

98

Faye,

Scotland 06/03/2007 02:57:09

What happened to the Brownies, the Scouts, the Girl guides, the Boys brigade and structure when growing up?

All the tests that went with these groups were aimed at having to prove that one could look after themselves.

The outdoor school trips - canoeing, orienteering etc. this was the norm to test stamina.

It seems that kids are left to hang about the streets glugging Buck fast, made by err....Monks!

Feral youth is ugly.

It's time to engage these young people, give them hope and test their abilities in harsh environments, boot camp in the Scottish hills.

The problem of course is their 'maw and paw' who think little sooty poppit should be wrapped up in cotton wool in a centrally heated home watching shit TV.

Get the welly boots out and show kids that there is much more to life than hanging around the streets clutching a bottle of buckie.

Future generations need to learn cricket, "kirby", footie and lots of other challenging sports.

99

Pete39,

Tassy 06/03/2007 05:38:38

If you Google "the isle of man birch", there are fascinating articles on birching in the Isle of Man and the names of people and councillors who removed this invaluable and popular deterrent from the island. Also four recipients who would maybe like a walk down memory lane to comment on their punishment.

100

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 06/03/2007 09:14:58

this is a sad reflection of our "pc" brigade!you cant touch a bairn!!!!! recently i had the misfortune to have to speak to the police about youngsters in the area who were causing mayhem! you know what they said to me,and i quote!!! "kids now-a-days are virtually bulletproof"
you phone the police about vandalism,they give you an incident number and thats the end of it!
cathy jameson "proudly" announced that crime figures are down! ermmmmm ok...for the politicians who sit in luxury...heres the clue....they are down because simply...we the general public are fed up phoning the authorities and getting no where! so we dont phone in the crimes,simple eh?
whats the answer...pc brigade..gets the blinkers on quick!
bring back the belt....make parents totally resonsible for their innocent wee darlings by way of a fine first,then evection then jail.
the little darlings! bring back list 'd' schools and detention.stop mollycoddling them and within reason lets get back to the days where a "little darling" is caught by the police...kick them up the arse and then take them home where they should get it again,and get kept in for ages.and bring in curfews....how many kids do we see in the streets after 9pm? after 10pm and even later! and thats on school days!
enough is enough...lets take the streets back...more cops on FOOT patrol instead of a nice wee warm car that we the tax payer foot the bill for!(how many times have you see police in the chippy?and the car is outside?)

101

Biker,

Ayr 06/03/2007 09:23:26

A friend of mine many years ago was placed in prison for 4 days merely for setting a waste bin on fire (they thought he was a terrorist). The net result was that when he was released he vowed never to allow himself to be put in there again. It scared him to death!!. Perhaps it is time for the short sharp shock. Stick the destructive little gits in prison for a couple of night and fine their parents the price of their stay. It's about time we claimed the streets back.

102

citizen smith,

Midlothian 06/03/2007 10:55:50

I say it again, boot camps, tough regime, discipline, taught respect, for persistent offenders send the parents with them, and yes parents are responsiable and accountable, they are part of the problem,why are their kids walking the streets in the early morning ? we are way to soft, the PC brigade and the do gooders will regret their action one day, people are scared to walk the streets and human life is worth 7 years, where did we go so wrong ?? Tough on crime rings a bell, just not seeing it ?? unless your a motorist that is, or ever better a biker !

103

,

06/03/2007 11:06:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 421135, Article id was mapped to record!
104

sandy,

USA 06/03/2007 11:38:45

#98...#100.....bravo!!

105

suz,

06/03/2007 12:48:29

The problem is that these kids know exactly what to say to get themselves out of trouble and can come up with witnesses to back them up when the police come to call.The offenders are the only ones who know how to protect themselves from the law, and the only one's willing to lie through their teeth to the police.
My daughter was attacked in Princes Street Gardens by another teenage girl in a group of about 12 yobs who were hanging around, trying to provoke trouble. My daughters mistake was try to verbally remonstrate with the 12 year old boy in the group who had hit her in the face with a stone after failing to get her and her friends stirred up any other way. The girl claimed my daughter was about to hit the 12 year old so she jumped in and grabbed her by the hair and punched her until one of my daughters friends pulled her off. As she suffered bruising and scratches in the attack, and knew she hadn't had any intention of hitting the boy, she went to the police and they interviewed the girl and charged her with assault. She was of the opinion that it was a fair fight and was surprised my daughter had complained, but then a couple of days later went back to the police and got 2 of the other thugs to say that my daughter had hit her first and say that my daughter had actually thrown a punch at the 12 year old and she had stepped in and got punched instead. So from being a victim of a crime, my daughter went straight to being an aggressive bully who had to be stopped! Upshot, my daughter has been charged with assualt also. Damnable thing is that she didn't actually touch anyone as she was using one hand to stop the girl ripping her hair out, and the other hand to protect her face. The police sat in my house saying 'don't worry about it, it is a minor offence, it will be wiped from your record when you are 16' while my daughter and I were too appalled to speak. To us it was a huge deal and if they were at the other girls house saying the same thing, then it is

106

,

06/03/2007 16:03:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 422206, Article id was mapped to record!
107

Fizzy,

Edinburgh 07/03/2007 00:46:10

No easy solution to this problem but locking kids up doesnt seem to be the answer. Bringing back discipline to schools and the power to parents to deal with the problem without fear of prosecution would go a long way to help with this issue though.

Why the tories banned the belt I will never know now kids who rebel have no fear of reprisals from the law, there is no where to put them and no one wants the responsibility of dealing with them. From personal experience a lot of these kids are intelligent and not really bad through and through, and if you delve deep enough you get to the root of the problem, then you have a chance to help them and give them some hope for the future. Many kids classed as neds and troublemakers are often called so because of the poorer backgrounds they are from and as they are already labelled its not hard for them to fall into the lifestyle they have been brought into. Keep the Secure units for the kids that really should be there and lets help and change the way these kids think.

Bring back discipline and problems will improve immediately. Kids know their rights and dont fear the outcome of their actions these days. If I had these laws in the 70s when I was at school I would have been a right handful, but the thought of getting the belt or the words "just you wait till your dad gets in lady" was enough to curb my wild ways.

108

mark jacobs,

edinburgh 07/03/2007 00:53:59

out of europe now ,make our own laws in scotland tougher, european rights laws must not have a say in the way we deal with our criminals .


 

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