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Monday, 2nd November 2009 Change Date Latest Issue

Pressure builds as bus bosses go it alone on banning prams

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Published Date: 30 July 2008
PRESSURE is growing on Lothian Buses to abandon its controversial ban on prams after it emerged the council-backed bus firm is the only big bus company in Scotland to not to allow prams on its services.
A straw poll of bus operators, including First and Stagecoach, conducted by the Evening News has shown that nobody has an outright ban on prams and the majority have left it to their drivers' discretion.

Lothian Buses drivers were last week remin
ded they are not to allow prams on board, so that the company complies with the Disability Discrimination Act.

The firm says it has to refuse prams in line with anti-discrimination legislation and passengers on buses can only take on buggies which can fold up to maintain a space for wheelchair users.

But unhappy parents claim they are the ones being discriminated against, with some claiming they have been forced to buy a buggy as a result of the policy.

Mhari Martin, 20, a sales assistant, bought a £400 pram for her five-month old daughter Brodie in February but today claimed she has been forced into buying a £110 buggy as the new ruling means she can on longer take her daughter to her city centre nursery from their Gilmerton home.

She said: "It just feels like they are discriminating against parents and it is not fair on people like me who have bought prams."

Councillors on the city's transport committee yesterday called for a report on the rationale behind Lothian Buses' policy, which will be brought to the next committee meeting in September.

Councillor Tom Buchanan, the city's economic development leader and SNP transport spokesman, said: "I have spoken to Lothian Buses and they have said they are obliged by law to accommodate wheelchair spaces but not pram spaces. However, I think a little bit of discretion could be applied."

A spokesman for Lothian Buses said: "This is not Lothian Buses' decision. It is government legislation, as laid down by the Disability Discrimination Act."

OTHER TRANSPORT FIRMS SAY . .

FIRST BUS
"If a disabled person is to use the service and the area is occupied by a pram, then the situation is explained and a request is made by the driver for the pram to be folded away. We try to accommodate both, but if unable to, then a first come, first served rule exists."

ARRIVA
" In the case of non-foldable prams, only prams that fit into the designated areas will be carried on our bus. Our drivers have the discretion to request that buggies are folded at busy times or if a customer wishes to board with a wheelchair."

STAGECOACH
"As the capacity on different types of bus can vary, we have no policy stating that buggies or prams are not permitted on our services. However, in the event of a wheelchair user wishing to travel when one or more buggy is in the space provided for wheelchairs, our staff politely request that mothers fold the buggies to make space for the wheelchair."

TRAVEL DUNDEE
"We have a designated area for both prams and wheelchairs, but it depends on the make of bus. We always try to accommodate everybody. It's case by case, we'll ask for a pram to be folded but if unable to, we'll inform the next bus of need for wheelchair space."

www.lothianbuses.com



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 30 July 2008 12:19 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Lothian Buses , Transport
 
1

allknowing,

30/07/2008 12:08:34
before having a kid, ask yourself, will i have to depend entirely on the state for money and transport. If so, keep your trousers up until you can affrd to keep one, ie no child benefit, your own transport means, your own childcare.

Stop scrounging off the state.No one forces you to choose the bus!!!
2

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 12:10:01
Wait a minute...didn't Lothian Buses tell us they HAD to ban prams, to comply with the Disability Discrimination Act?

Shame on all those other bus companies, flouting the DDA in such a way!

Or...no...surely Lothian Buses couldn't be....MAKING STUFF UP, could they?!?

Hiding behind the DDA as an excuse to ban prams is, and always was, a sleekit and shameful move by Lothian Buses.
3

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 12:10:46
#1

What planet do you live on where buses and childcare are free? You don't seem to know as much as you think you do.
4

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 12:12:42
A spokesman for Lothian Buses said: "This is not Lothian Buses' decision. It is government legislation, as laid down by the Disability Discrimination Act."

Hmmmm....I have read right through the DDA, and I must confess I cannot find that bit that says "prams must be banned from buses"....

Can the Lothian Buses spokesman tell us which page this is on?
5

john3,

30/07/2008 12:12:43
Charity shops have them for a few £. Keep it going LRT
then they will stop buyimng the monstrosities they bring on buses loaded with messages. Maybe obesity will go down too with a bit more walking for the poor souls.
6

allknowing,

30/07/2008 12:16:49
#3, whats the cost for an infant on LRT??

I'll give you a clue, 0 pence!!!

Whats the cost for those parents on low income to send thier kid to nursery?? I'll give you another clue, same as above!
7

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 12:20:16
#6

LRT doesn't exist any more.

Childcare in this country is hugely expensive. It is free only in a very small minority of cases, and then usually only for a few hours a day.

You think babies should pay to go on buses?

Why do you hate children so much? Is it because they tend to outrank you in IQ terms?
8

alex paterson,

edinburgh 30/07/2008 12:20:52
Why dont the parents try doing what we did,we walked with the pram or buggy after all it has wheels.
9

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 12:22:39
#9

Beats taking a taxi, I suppose.
10

Darren :-),

30/07/2008 12:22:47
In the past, when there were no low floor buses, and yes wheelchairs couldnt get on, but neither could buggys, what did the mums or dads do then? we still have these buses in service, so do you wait on one with a low floor or fold the buggy up? its not rocket science.

With that said, wheelchairs should have priority on all buses over buggys, and if a person is on with a buggy they should be told to either fold it or get off. Though, in the past i have seen a person get on with a huge buggy, for 2 stops later a wheelchair wanting to get on, and the buggy owner refusing to get off, and couldnt fold up the pram.
11

,

30/07/2008 12:29:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Sarcasm,

30/07/2008 12:37:23
Afternoon allknowing.

We've had this debate about you trolling this topic before I recall.

That time of the month to pick a fight again is it.

13

Linmal,

Livingston 30/07/2008 12:38:29
When is this going to end? You have children mostly by choice. You know you are going to have to get about with a pram or a pushchair and you also know that buses will be difficult. No-one forces you to have children your choice, your problem. However, no-one wants to make things unnecessarily difficult either. There is ample room on buses to FOLD UP a pushchair. And why would you want to take a newborn child on a bus anyway? Edinburgh is a great City for walking. My parents did it, I did it and my children are doing it now.

Lets end this nonsense. Use the buses by all means, but do so with care and consideration for your fellow passengers.
14

I love to eat Sellotape,

30/07/2008 12:38:44
"Summer of Knife and Prams" has potential as an album title.
15

Ali M,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 12:47:38
As a parent with a small child I think those people saying that parents should stop complaining need to maybe spend a week looking after a small child on the outskirts of Edinburgh and walk in and out of town (5 miles each way), walk to the shops, walk to the parent & toddler group ...

Most parents I know would accomodate a person in a wheelchair if they wished to board a bus if they could. Banning prams is discriminating against children and parents which is the same as discriminating against a disabled person, it's all discrimination.
16

Jen1010,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 12:48:25
I have, on numerous occasions had to get off the bus with my son in his pram because a wheelchair user has got on after me and needed the space. I got off the bus (every time I was the one to offer to get off the bus for the wheelchair user) and waiting for the next one as of course they should have priority over the space! We choose to use prams, do you think they choose to be in a wheelchair? Have a heart all you pram users, if someone in greater need than you needs the space, then for goodness sake give it to them without making a drama out of it.
17

,

30/07/2008 12:51:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

Mr Fuzzy,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 12:51:36
#11
Close. 600 pounds buys you a hand-made luxury pram made with Italian style.


Traditional Pram

Traditional Prams and more available inside ...

The carriage is finished with a genuine Hand-decorated oval leather label. Beautiful chrome details and hand made wooden frame. The front wheels are 14" in diameter while the rear are 16" to provide a smooth and balanced ride. The Balestrino frame offers superior ride with maximum suspension.

The fabric is a fine quality gabardine and features removable internal lining for easy machine washing. Adjustable hood via a classic, stylish hand-lever. An air flow adjustment device and air inlets on the pram body moderate the internal climate for comfort. Rear brakes are activated with a touch of your foot. Anti-tip system prevents tipping accidents; safety system prevents accidental folding. Remove the bassinet to fold the chassis compactly (you can also remove the wheels for a more compact folding).

Comes with a co-ordinated bag with changing pad supplied as standard.

The only things missing are cruise control and GPS Positioning.
19

Journalistic licence,

On the No. 15 30/07/2008 12:53:59
I've never had an issue when taking my upright piano on the bus. Although, there was a bit of a problem once when I got off and forgot all about it.
20

Linmal,

Livingston 30/07/2008 12:55:01
#18 Well said Jen1010. I think Lothian Buses are wrong to ban prams - believe it or not - but I also think what is needed is a little consideration as you obviously have shown. As for #17 I have had children of my own. When my eldest daughter was a baby I lived 5 miles from the nearest village and there were no buses at all at weekends. What did I do? I walked of course and it didn't do me any harm. If it wasn't absolutely essential to go out then I didn't and just got on with things. You choose to have children and, I presume, you also choose where to live. No-one asked you to live 5 miles out of town, did they?
21

Linmal,

Livingston 30/07/2008 12:57:42
#19 - Well said. Let the PC brigade get involved and they soon turn a molehill into a mountain! Normal decency and good manners is all that is required to make things workable - hardly rocket science is it?
22

antifa,

30/07/2008 12:59:19
"Stop scrounging off the state.No one forces you to choose the bus!!!"

What does this mean and how is it relevant to the story?

Why not just write: "I am an idiot!!!" next time.
23

Peedie Paws,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 13:02:23
Bring back the good olde days when buggy's and wheelchairs couldn't use the bus cos there was no access. If they can't agree over who gets top priority, then neither should be allowed on.
24

antifa,

30/07/2008 13:03:33
"You choose to have children and, I presume, you also choose where to live. No-one asked you to live 5 miles out of town, did they?"

What does this have to do with the fact that Lothian buses are, alone among all bus companies in Scotland, discriminating against mothers with young children?

Some people are just completely mad, and you're one of them.
25

Bob 2,

30/07/2008 13:08:08
Quite clearly someone has complained to Lothian Buses under the Disability Discrimination Act about wheelchair spaces and have had to act under the law.

The DDA and the rules as Lothian Buses has been there for a few years, so clearly someone has complained.

It would be interesting to see what the other bus companies do, if they are challenged under the DDA.

Modern Prams and Buggies have got bigger and fancier, almost some sort of designer status symbol, with one mum out doing the other.

The Driver has to take the brunt of abuse that is often given be people asked "politely" to fold up there buggy.

No4 Skip McClendon, I have not read the DDA, but a Pram is a slightly different beast to fold up particularly the old silver cross style - never mind that the baby is probably under 6 months?, where as a buggy tends to be more easily folded and will have an older child in it.
26

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 13:09:48
20-30 years ago, if people had come out with rediculous ideas like this, they would have been laughed at and we would have heard no more about it. They would probably also have lost their jobs.

We need to roll back the clock a bit.
27

I love to eat Sellotape,

30/07/2008 13:09:52
The phrase "PC brigade" really does need to be stricken from the English language.
28

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 30/07/2008 13:12:10

I went to a private school, so I'm afraid to get on a bus in case any of my former classmates see me and think I'm a schemie.
29

LUVMACITY,

IN THE LOBBY 30/07/2008 13:13:33
When I was younger the mothers always folded the pushchair before boarding the bus or tramcar. However it would seem todays generation are too lazy.
30

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 30/07/2008 13:15:06

The PC brigade are probably in the minority now.

The laptop/pda/ iphone brigade is where it's at, hep cats.
31

Martin 2,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 13:16:46
The idea that buses have places for folding buggies is wrong. Lothian Buses new 49 has a space for bags but the design means a folded buggy would just fall onto the floor.

Until recently, commonsense prevailed and somebody with a pram would get off if a wheelchair user wanted to board -I really don't understand this apparent change of policy by Lothian Buses - especially if there latest buses are designed so that buggies cannot be carried even when folded.

The issue is not being able to afford a car -some people choose to go by bus to try and reduce pollution. And for those families that cannot afford a car, then why should they have their right to travel around a city curtailed by a council run bus company?
32

Bob 2,

30/07/2008 13:18:24
The question to ask the other Bus Companies including Britains Biggest Bus Company FIRST is

Are they required under the DDA to make a space available on their buses? and what happens if they fail to let a wheelchair user on?

no34 has made a good point, laziness and a wee bit of selfishness from buggy users who could quite easily fold up their buggys!
33

I love to eat Sellotape,

30/07/2008 13:18:59
Prams on trams
Clams with yams
Tams for Sams
Rams on dams
Pams with mams


34

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 30/07/2008 13:27:46

Pram Mam Slamz Bus Bamz Unilateral & Discrimatory Ban
35

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 30/07/2008 13:29:55

A spokesman for Nasa said yesterday - "Yes, it's cool for you to take a pram on the Space Shuttle. But we charge 500 000 GBP for corkage if ya open that can of Irn Bru, missus"
36

I love to eat Sellotape,

30/07/2008 13:32:48
Why would they need a pram on the space shuttle?
37

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 30/07/2008 13:37:03

#43 for the infants? for stolen goods? who knows
38

Hoof Hearted,

Potato 30/07/2008 13:58:02
The true fact is that the 'other' bus companies are all run on a profit driven basis. They have tight margins in order to make big profits for their greedy shareholders, therefore the very thought of turning away a fare (which a competitor might then get) is completely unthinkable. They would rather break the law than lose a fare.

Lothian Buses, however, is in the enviable position of having a near monopoly in its operating area, plus it hasn't got to appease fat cat shareholders in the same way as the privately owned companies. Therefore they can afford to obey the law in the same way that the LB bus fleet are modern, roadworthy and safe, unlike another local operator or ten.

39

NorT,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 14:01:50
If the driver told the people standing to move up the bus and stand clear of the stairs then both prams and wheelchairs could be accomadated. By the way a buggy is just a fold up pram and they should be folded up when getting on the bus.
40

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 30/07/2008 14:05:59

All this wheelchair talk. Wheelchair users aren't on the bus that often. Fewer than 1 in 1000 journeys on LRT are by wheelchair users.Comparing wheelchair users with prams isn't comparing like for like.
41

Cassandra,

Not on a bus 30/07/2008 14:06:13
#37 Bob - the wheelchair space on buses exists solely to comply with the DDA. It is not intended primarily for the use of anyone else, no matter what encumbrance they want to bring on the bus. Buses carry a notice to this effect. There are still different designs for buses because bus companies have till 2017 to make all their buses wheelchair accessible. It would be unreasonable to expect them to convert to accessible buses immediately, and the Act imposes only 'reasonable' adjustments.
Bus drivers are expected to ask people occupying the wheelchair space to move to let the chair on, but are not expected to force them to move, and once they've paid for a ticket, it's a bit unreasonable to ask them to get off.
I work with drivers for several companies, and they tell me it can be more than their life is worth to ask some people to vacate the space, whether they have a buggy or not.
To those who say, you seldom see wheelchair users on the bus, why do you think this is? Might it possibly be because a) not all the buses are adapted, so it makes it difficult to plan their journey, particularly if they're trying to get to work or an appointment, and b) they can't face creating a scene.
42

Hoof Hearted,

30/07/2008 14:06:49
1 Bob 2,28/07/2008 13:22:00
Lothian Buses says it has to refuse prams in line with anti-discrimination legislation. Passengers on the Capital's buses can only take on buggies which can fold up if a wheelchair users needs the space.

But bus company First South East & Central Scotland, part of the First Group, said prams and buggies are allowed to board their low-floored buses, provided there is space available.

Sounds Like the same Policy?


Gillian Richards, a mother of nine-month-old twins from Willowbrae, said she was "outraged......"I believe that my daughters' rights are as important as that of a disabled person."

Ms Richards, "SELFISH" ? ...just think your TWINS will be able to walk onto a bus when they are Older.
A PERSON in a wheelchair has a life sentence and will still be in their wheelchair.
Hoping that a space will be available on the bus for them, or have to wait for the next bus in hope..think about it?.

Report Unsuitable2 Hermitage,Edinburgh 28/07/2008 13:22:01
Perhaps we could also have child-free areas in restaurants so that we can enjoy a civilised meal in peace without the 'yummy-mummy complete with screaming brats who are the most important people here' brigade?Report Unsuitable3 Mike Hunt,Edinburgh 28/07/2008 13:22:17
I think the comments about the twins not being allowed in taxis may be wrong. I seem to remember that you CAN take children in taxis, but you need to hold babies in your arms and children need to use an adult seatbelt.Report Unsuitable4 Joe Smith.,Moscow 28/07/2008 13:24:11

These outraged mums need to chill out and think this one through.

A pram on the bus is a danger to

1. The mum (outraged or otherwise)
2. Other passengers

And most importantly:

The occupant of the pram. Report Unsuitable5 john3,28/07/2008 13:26:28
Thank goodness at last LRT has the power to refuse prams. What happened to lifting your own child now and then. I saw the first easy boarding for a wheelchair yesterday in Moira
43

Davy,

30/07/2008 14:07:14
Now you know why the masses drink & take drugs The transport department is to blame.
44

I love to eat Sellotape,

30/07/2008 14:08:01
44.

But don't prams rely a lot on gravity? I mean, their contents - a child, stolen goods, a nutritious breakfast, whatever - run the risk of just floating off in a zero-gravity environment, don't they?
45

internationalist,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 14:10:54
Many years ago , in Auckland New Zealand, the buses had hooks on the front on which parents used to hang the prams (after removing the baby).
46

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 30/07/2008 14:27:30
#51

Zip covers mate. Why the aggressive questioning?
47

Ffion,

not on a lothian bus 30/07/2008 14:32:12
Lothian buses should just go the whole hog and ban passengers which they so don't seem to like-not so long ago a Lothian bus driver was pulled up for throwing a women off the bus for breastfeeding so this should come as no great suprise-only this week I saw a group of bewildered tourists trying to understand why they couldn't get change. How many other cities have exact fare only or lose your money? How many other european cities have such sad public transport?
48

I love to eat Sellotape,

30/07/2008 14:32:17
I don't mean to be aggressive. I'm just confused. I've never touched a real pram, and only seen a few.
49

Jasbar,

30/07/2008 14:36:51
How is it that one man's anti-discrimination measure is usually achieved by discriminating against someone else?
50

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 14:47:42
Why don't scum just stop breeding?
51

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 30/07/2008 14:49:30

#57 - that's a proper Yoda style question.
52

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 30/07/2008 14:53:56

As Chewbacca once said (rightly, in my opinion)

GNUUHEEUUWWWW
53

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 30/07/2008 14:56:14

Lando Calrissian: You can't take that damn pram on the Millennium Falcon!

Han Solo: It's a Wookie, you fool, not a pram.

Lando Calrissian: Sorry, I've never seen a pram. You can't be too careful, like. What with the gravity and that.
54

,

30/07/2008 15:01:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
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55

Phil MaGlass,

Holland 30/07/2008 15:07:20
you want kids, then dont expect other people to bend over backwards to accomodate you.
56

Giraffe,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 15:15:21
Mario, you make me laugh like a giraffe at times, you really do. I used to think I was going on adventures in green buses, I still call first bus a green bus but quite obviously they aren't. Still, the memories .... ah!

Why does everyone (mostly) think that all women with prams are schemies and scrounging? This went from a debate on prams on buses to almost everyone that has a child is a scrounger. Were all your mums/dads like that to, sad!!
57

Giraffe,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 15:19:48
I was on No. 3 the other day and a girl with - God forbid - a pram made her way to get on the bus - the driver told her she couldn't and before he could say anymore she screeched at him "why noh", when he got the chance to speak he said coz there's already a buggy/pram (who cares) in the space, she said, "noh thers no, coz ah cannie see it", the driver said, there is, you can't see it because there are 100 people standing (more or less), and she screeched again, "well, ah cannie see it", the driver shut the door and she gave him a load of abuse - why, just coz she couldn't see the buggy/pram. It was actually quite funny to see it - you had to be there.
58

CarolineB,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 15:24:04

I love that people believe when it is quoted as being “the law” they do not question it.

Lothian buses have said that the pram / other non folding baby travel systems are not suitable due to compliance with DDA. The Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (as amended by the Disability Discrimination Act 2005) covers the construction, use and maintenance of regulated public service vehicles.

I think they are meaning to quote from the following

The Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) Regulations 1990

The Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) (Amendment) Regulations 2002

The section 12(2) in the 2002 regulation states
“if there is an unoccupied wheelchair space on a vehicle , a driver and conductor shall allow a wheelchair users to board . . “

In their guidance to the bus and coach staff these regulations from the department of transport state that,

“Where other passengers are occupying the wheelchair space you should ask them to move to allow the wheelchair user to board. You do not have to let the wheelchair user on if the carrying capacity – seated or standing - would be exceeded. Other passengers on the bus aren’t obliged to move and you are not expected to make them”
Whilst not obliged by law to vacate the space I am a responsible individual and would ALWAYS vacate the space -given my three in one travel system in non -folding I would simply get off the bus and wait for another. I have only had to do this once in all the time before this ridiculous rule was enforced.

All – tune into radio Scotland tomorrow morning for a live debate at around 9am.
59

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 15:25:00

Dinny even start the "Discrimination" malarly!

This IS A "DISCRIMINATION" on our most 'VULNERABLE' members of our society, that of a Baby!

To that end, a Mother and her Baby should be Accommodated for in our Public transport systems!

NO ARGUMENTS REQUIRED!!!
60

,

30/07/2008 15:41:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
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61

,

30/07/2008 15:42:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
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62

Peedie Paws,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 15:45:28
Ok, what would the driver do if a woman got on with a disabled child in a buggy then a wheelchair user wanted to get on the bus?
63

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 15:49:56
#71 - throw the woman off, she's probably a chav anyway.
64

Peedie Paws,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 15:55:39
73, You are entirely blameless. However, I'm keeping my eye on you!
65

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 15:55:55
#73 - Mario, I don't want to get along with scum, I want scum removed and sent to live on some remote island. Either that or steralise them and they will eventually die out.
66

Peedie Paws,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 15:58:00
#75 - w hich Island will you go and live on then?
67

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 16:02:11

#70,
Majestic, you have the brain lesser of a child.
68

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 16:02:41
#76

I dunno, but I'm going to drill a hole in his boat. Or overload it. With prams.
69

Peedie Paws,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 16:03:58
#78 - don't forget the wheelchairs!
70

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:04:37
#76 - Hahahaha........are you a comedian, that was soooo funny.

Obviously a single mother on benefits who got a PC off the back of a lorry.
71

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:06:18
Oh my god, it's the 3 stooges.

72

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 16:07:58
#80

You seem to have a pathological hatred of women and children. I'd see a Doctor if I was you.
73

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:08:51
#82 - Which one are you Skip?
74

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:09:30
I only have a hatred of scum and bleeding heart liberals.
75

Peedie Paws,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 16:09:57
#80 - shows how much you know. I'm female, single, no kids (don't want them), in full time employment, own house, own car, 2 cats, great social life, hate trams! And yes, I do believe have a sense of humour which LRT are sadly lacking at the moment!
76

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 16:11:03
#84

Yeah, send them all to labour camps, eh? I know of someone else who tried that.
77

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:13:20
#85 - Don't believe you, it's obvious you want a man and kids, cats don't make up for them, I've heard.

Having to tell me that you have a job, car, house, etc.....it's a give away that you are a sad, lonely and almost certainly ugly woman.
78

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:14:22
#86 - You didn't answer my post 83. Why???
79

,

30/07/2008 16:16:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
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80

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 16:16:47
#88

Because:

a) It's none of your business
b) You're an idiot
81

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:17:58
#90 - She's not for sale, she too happy with her great social life and 2 cats..........not
82

Peedie Paws,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 16:19:19
#87 - believe what you want. The reason I'm single is because the posibility of meeting someone like you would almost certainly turn me into a nun! And no, I'm not sad, lonely or ugly. My standard requirements in a man are just so high, someone like you couldn't possibly meet them!
83

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:21:57
#95 - I've heard it all before. I'm ugly with no personality and 2 cats so I'll tell people that I'm single because no guy lives up to my expectations.

What a shame!!
84

Graham P,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 16:21:59
#1 allknowing knows not
And knows nit that he knows not
He is a fool. Shun him.
85

Peedie Paws,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 16:22:38
#90, sorry, not for sale. But thanks for the offer!
#94, enjoy your new Island home. Just make sure its near or possibly on the Bermuda Triangle.
86

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:23:03
#92 - I can't have a discussion with someone called Skip....sorry.
87

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 16:24:23
#99

Oh no. I'm devastated. I'm off to throw myself in front of a big bus/pram/wheelchair.
88

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 16:25:54
....just a thought. Could Majestic's pathological hatred of women/children be linked to the fact that no-one of the opposite sex will entertain him?
89

Peedie Paws,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 16:27:14
#100, can I join you? Mr Majestic seems to have a serious personality disorder which needs looking into.
90

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:27:43
#100 - Did you see the story the other day about the court who have ordered a childs name to be changed because it is so stupid......or did you skip that article?

Bye bye Skip, will anyone notice when you are gone?
91

Peedie Paws,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 16:28:15
#101, Entertain him? I'd prefer to shoot him!
92

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:28:55
#102 - Of course you can join Skip, 2 done, 1 to go, where's Charlie?
93

Peedie Paws,

30/07/2008 16:29:27
#103 - then how did you end up with the name of an 80's TV show?
94

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 16:30:41
#103

It may surprise you to learn that Skip McClendon is not, in fact, my real name.

Is Mr Majestic your real name?
95

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:31:28
#101 - Women entertain me all the time. Peedie's quite entertaining is she not. Then there are strippers, pole dancers and the like. They are entertaining too.
96

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:32:49
#107 - of course it's my real name, why would I make one up?
97

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 16:33:35
#108

So you have to pay for any kind of interaction with women? U-huh...
98

Peedie Paws,

30/07/2008 16:33:46
#108 - go onto the UK page and look under the section where they have a pair of Queen Victoria's 1890's unger garments. The comments are quite funny!
99

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:35:36
#110 - No I don't have to, I choose to. Got to keep them in a job or they would be claiming benefits and bringing prams on buses too.
100

Skip McClendon,

30/07/2008 16:40:38
#112

How very Liberal of you. That explains the self-loathing then.
101

,

30/07/2008 16:41:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
102

Linmal,

Livingston 30/07/2008 16:45:03
This is becoming boring now - just be nice to each other for goodness sake!
103

Peedie Paws,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 16:46:10
Ah, enough fun for one day.
104

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:46:41
#113 - What self-loathing?

I thought it was women and kids i hated.
105

Mr Majestic,

30/07/2008 16:47:53
#115 - The idiots on here are just too easy to wind up. They fall for it every time.
106

I love to eat Sellotape,

30/07/2008 16:48:05
Eat fresh fruit. Or have it in a delicious smoothie.
107

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 17:13:02

Dont worry, certainally not Majestic, hurried comments from a mobile phone aint easy, but I am still here.
108

D40,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 17:30:59
What a shame Scotland seems to be filled by selfish unreasonable people, how does taking a bus make you scrounge from the state. (Thought we were being encouraged to leave the car at home and take the bus) And it shows the bus company policy of "well you can fold up your buggy" have no idea that not all buggies/prams fold up and just shows they have not had to - get a baby out of the pram, remove shopping etc, hold onto toddler so he/she does not run across the road, then hold baby folded up buggy, pick up shopping and toddler,and then try to get on the bus, it is impossible. So we are just supposed to stay in 24/7 How unreasonable it that. Does not mean we cant go and get shopping, take our children swimming etc.

It is absolutely correct that disabled people should be able to get about freely with no discrimination. But so do people with young children and prams, wether you are a parent, grandparent or childminder.

I am just so glad I have a car and don't have to take a bus, as it is hell.

Allowing prams on the buses does not make them break the DDA law. As long as they provide buses that allows access for Wheel chairs.

In Austria they have buses with a sticker with a wheel chair and a sticker with a pram, which means both can use it. What is wrong with a first come basis.

Banning prams is discrimination against another group of people.

109

lunar jim,

midlothian 30/07/2008 18:31:25
My wife used buses regularly when having to go long distances with our first child. But that was after we had to buy a buggy that was very small when folded. Before that drivers would regularly drive past the bus stop, not give time to get the buggy folded or generally say the bus was full. This was just one stop from the terminus at Eastfield, full I think not. Now we live further out of the city, buses are a bit more of a life line and so far she hasn't tried with two children and after reading all these stories doesn't want to get stuck somewhere with out transport.
For those that say get a taxi, will you pay the £25 fare? No didn't think so...

Come on Lothian, public transport is for everyone, not just the few. Why not bring back the luggage spaces that where on the old double deckers so that the buggies have somewhere to go and maybe sacrifice some of the profits to do it?
110

bun107,

EDINBURGH 30/07/2008 19:43:52
I cannot believe the nastiness of some of these comments.

Would the individuals who want people to stop breeding think for a moment about what would have happened if their parents had been banned from having children!!! hmmmm

As per usual, ALL MOTHERS, are being tarred with the same brush, just as ALL TEENAGERS are being accused of knife crime....

It's a small minority who spoil things for the larger majority.

OK, picture the scene, you must make a necessary trip into town with your baby, would you

a) put baby in a pram where (esp while v. young) it would be supported safely whilst you do what you need to do

OR

b) carry the baby everywhere?

Please, please all of those cynics please walk a mile in a mother (or for that matter father's) shoes before criticism with such venom that's been exhibited in the comments on these articles.

I did not realise that Edinburgh was such a child UNFRIENDLY city.....


111

eltel,

in the hoose 30/07/2008 19:45:28
Some people on this forum tend to forget. This debate would not have came about, if these selfish parents would vacate the "wheelchair space" when asked. 90% of the time they dont. Trust me! I know for sure!
112

Franck,

30/07/2008 19:56:15
As a parent that lives out of town i trust in the development of my child with the support that comes from being carried in his pram.

Going back through centuries we have always had prams, only latterly have we had a foling pushchair tp carry older children.

Almost every parent who uses a pram will do so because the effect and strain on an undeveloped spine is lessened. It has ben proven that placing young infants who are unsupported in a pushchair from birth is detrimental to their development.

It is also a pity that like i am told, buses are greener and more enviromentally friendly. Seems i will no longer use Lothian Buses definately not the Bus operator of the Year. I have no issue with allowing a wheelchair user the space however seeing as my son is banned .....

I'll travel with my car and pollute the world instead.
113

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 20:21:35

bun107 ~126,

Absolutely,..'WELL-SAID'!

I also cant believe the 'hostilities' The Edinburgh Population appear to have against Babies, as I said previous, "our mos Vulnerable" members of our society.

Maybe that 4x4 gas guzzler, their £400 home, and that 60" LCD TV on their wall is of more importance.

One should remember, our 'Babies' are our future generations, one should respect this.

One also (unless dumb) should understand 'Preemie Babies, require extra care, and require a Pram at all times when out.

Mothers don't go out their way to upset anyone, maybe they should from now on, and start 'Breast Feeding' on the Bus!

Sad state of affairs, when one can show so much hatred towards Babies.
114

Jenny100,

EDINBURGH 30/07/2008 20:22:55
Has anyone here actually read this article? Fold-down buggies are not "banned" from LRT buses, only prams that can't fold down. If you look at the other companies statements, none of them actually contradict this viewpoint, with the exception of Dundee, and I wonder how long they will last with this, because of the DDA.
115

Number1,

30/07/2008 20:35:38
Fools, 130 comments on this article.
As per, the idiots of Edinburgh rally against its 'own' transport service, yet still complain about the tram works.
Wake up and smell the diesel!
116

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 20:45:36

Number1 ~131,

I don't think anyone is,...
"rallying against its 'own transport system"

Until recently there was NO issue, until some Bureaucrats made this topic an issue.

Also is it not LRT that will run the "Trams" Services, maybe the "Trams" will accommodate our "Prams"?

We look forward in anticipation.
117

Strawberries!,

30/07/2008 20:49:26
I think that everyone should be allowed on public buses. And I half and half agree with the first come first served idea that some people are suggesting but I do have an other:

Carry on what we are doing now!
I'm sure that half decent parents would give up their space for a disabled person if needed but I also know from personal experiences that hardly any disabled people take buses all the time, in fact its very rare for a disabled people to be taking the bus!!!

Who's with me that EVERYBODY should be allowed to ride a bus?
118

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 21:10:27

Strawberries! ~133,

Sensible and fair comment.
119

Ghost Of Scotland Past,

30/07/2008 22:15:44
This is ridiculous,135 comments on the trivia of getting a pram on a bus, and a serious debate about weed control can't even muster 30 sensible comments.
Firstly I was not aware that people still used real prams
these days, preferring the folding but child deforming buggy.
Secondly i have not seen a real pram on the streets anywhere for years. We had a pram for both our girls
and would never have attempted to get it on a bus.
This is just silly, and further indication of how stupid and selfish people are becoming. The human species is doomed ah tell ye, doomed
120

Maxibus,

30/07/2008 22:17:13
Wondering what's the position if a driver allows a pram on then the bus has a smash and the unstrapped baby is crushed against the end of the pram. Bus company is sued I suppose.
121

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

30/07/2008 22:50:08
"But unhappy parents claim they are the ones being discriminated against"

This misses the point completely. It's OK to discriminate against unhappy parents. It's illegal to discriminate against the disabled.
122

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

30/07/2008 22:56:18
"As a parent with a small child I think those people saying that parents should stop complaining need to maybe spend a week looking after a small child on the outskirts of Edinburgh"

There's the cunning part: they don't have to, because they used cotraception.
123

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

30/07/2008 23:01:43
"The idea that buses have places for folding buggies is wrong"

Huh? Don't buses have a boot any more?
124

Julian.,

edinburgh 30/07/2008 23:09:12
#133 Srawberries

"who's with me that everyone should be allowed to ride a bus"

I'm with you...except the debate is not about whether everyone whould be allowed to ride. So what's your point?

Unless you mean that every parent with a pram should be allowed to ride. Well, of that's what you meant, how about every person with a push bike. Should they be allowed to ride also? And if we say no to them then aren't we discrminating against cyclists?
125

Ghost Of Scotland Past,

30/07/2008 23:09:22
138)"There's the cunning part: they don't have to, because they used cotraception."
Is this some devious means of not having to provide the failed abortion with something to sleep in?
126

Julian.,

edinburgh 30/07/2008 23:16:47
Ghost of Scotland past,

You've summed it up perfectly. 140 comments today, 200 on Monday and the same last week. Parents up in arms talking about being discrimated against. The only thing that might spark more interest is an ultra-negative tram story.

You'd think they were talking about banning toddlers from buses. All I can say to those parents complaining is shut up, put your hands in your pockets and take out £40, go down to Mothercare and buy a buggy.
127

craig7653,

Port Seton 31/07/2008 09:51:23
Sick of these people with kids. They choose to have them and then want everyone else to bend over backwards to help them through life. Ban all prams and buggies from buses. Wheelchairs only. Other thing is that when Lothian Buses is privatised there won't be many buses around, and it won't be £1.10 per journey.
128

Paulie9,

Musselburgh 31/07/2008 10:26:53
allknowing...knownothing! Why another dreary scrounge off the state comment? They're paying a fare you idiot.
129

Daddykoolest,

Edinburgh 31/07/2008 10:46:23
As a concerned father I've always been respectful those less fortunate than myself.

I know of the area where Caroline B lives and it has a sizable community of disabled and while admittedly not many use public transport those who do deserve all the help we can give.

As parents we CHOSE to have children, disabled people DO NOT chose.

My own mother used to walk everywhere with myself and my sister in the 70s. Now confined to walking with two sticks she would gladly give up her seat to anyone who needs it.

When my own son was born we took him up to register his birth in a large three-wheeled monster, it got on the bus ok but was too big to get off through the back doors. My face was beaming as I realised that should have used the front door, but fortunately the driver and the passengers were very patient.

A much smaller buggy was bought very soon afterwards with a matching sling.

My son is now six and happily various car boot sales have recycled most of our baby equipment.

Carolin B you chose to be a mother and the three-in-one system: many wheelchair users never get that choice.

130

Julian.,

edinburgh 31/07/2008 13:29:12
craig7653,

Maybe we should ban you from nursing homes when you're older...where some of these children you so detest will be wiping your @rse in a few years.

And Lothian Buses is already privatised.
131

JimmyC06,

31/07/2008 14:56:41
craig7653

What do you expect from these child haters - Port Seton SCUM

 

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