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Councillor's dad served as an SS officer

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Published Date:
08 May 2007
A SON of a former SS officer, an ex-Australian soap actress, an open-top bus tour guide and a former deck hand on the Greenpeace boat Rainbow Warrior are among Edinburgh's new councillors.
Former athletes, cab and bus drivers, and an ex-spin doctor for the Royal Family will also take their place in City Chambers next week.

However, much of the spotlight will be on Stefan Tymkewycz, whose father Bohdan served with the Ukrainian Division of the SS during the Second World War.

The 86-year-old, who now lives in Dalkeith, Midlothian, is understood to have been an officer in the 16,000-strong 14th Waffen SS Galizien Division. Its members have been accused of taking part in a string of atrocities during the Second World War, though there is no suggestion Mr Tymkewycz's father was involved.

Bohdan Tymkewycz, was named last year as a suspected war criminal along with 50 other former SS Galizien members by London MP Andrew Dismore, who was campaigning for former Nazi war criminals to be brought to justice.

He has criticised the police for failing to take enough action to pursue alleged war criminals living in the UK before they die.

He said today: "The former Galiziens named in my Commons motion were all done so after many years of research. I don't want to comment on any individual cases, but I obviously believe that all these people are still worthy of pursuit for war crimes."

Stefan Tymkewycz was elected as an SNP councillor in the Craigentinny/Duddingston ward and was also voted in as an MSP on the Lothians regional list, though he has still to decide whether to take on both roles.

The former Metropolitan Police officer, who was born in Abbeyhill and still lives in the area, today confirmed his father had been a member of the Galizien but refused to comment further on his military background.

He said: "He doesn't keep too well now and has had three operations in the last year. I don't see what relevance this has to me."

Members of the division were offered refuge in Britain in 1947 after spending two years in a prison camp. At the time, it is thought the Ministry of Defence wanted to use them as a possible fighting force against Communism.

Earlier this year it emerged that there were more than 1400 of the original Galizien still alive and living around the UK. However, the Government has said there is not enough evidence of atrocities to pursue any cases.

Mr Tymkewycz's father's involvement with the SS is said to be common knowledge in SNP circles. One party source said: "It's not something Stefan particularly wants to advertise, but he's been pretty open about it. It's not exactly a secret within the party, but it's got nothing to do with his suitability to be a councillor or MSP."

An SNP spokesman added: "We were aware of it, but it is not an issue. It's obviously a private personal matter to do with Stefan's private family history."

Mr Tymkewycz said he would decide in the next few weeks whether to serve as both a councillor and an MSP: "There is no reason why I couldn't do both but it's something I need to decide on."

Fellow SNP councillor Deidre Brock was born and bred in Perth, Australia, where she carved out an acting career on stage and screen Down Under, including an appearance in a minor role in the hit soap Home and Away.

Cllr Brock, who moved to Edinburgh 11 years ago, has most recently been a parliamentary assistant to Highlands MSP Rob Gibson and will represent Leith Walk in the council.

She said: "I played a doctor in a couple of episodes of Home and Away who had to break the news that one of the characters had a brain tumour. I was in a few TV shows that would only have been broadcast over there, but I was also in a show called The Leaving of Liverpool, which was a joint production between Australia and the UK."

Green MSP Steve Burgess, who heads the party's research team at Holyrood, was previously a crewman on Rainbow Warrior. He said: "I spent three months on board as a deck hand when it toured Australia and New Zealand, before I joined the Greens."

Mr Burgess, who has worked at Holyrood since the creation of the parliament, worked previously as a research scientist at Edinburgh University's King's Buildings. He will serve Southside/Newington.

Fellow Green Alison Johnstone, elected in Meadows/Morningside, has been a leading figure in campaigns such as the fight to stop the selling-off of Meggetland playing fields and recent protests over the plans to replace Meadowbank Stadium. She is also a former 800m and 1500m Scottish international runner.

Norma Hart, who will be representing the Liberton/Gilmerton areas in the council, is a former chief executive of Dumfries and Galloway Tourist Board. She is a self-employed trainer, and is a member of both Amnesty International and Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce.

New Lib Dem councillor Elaine Morris, who won a seat in the Forth ward, had a spell as a spin doctor at Buckingham Palace.

Inverleith SNP councillor Stuart McIvor swapped a career in the Metropolitan Police for a job as an open-top tour guide with Lothian Buses.

Former council leader, Donald Anderson, who stepped down as a councillor before the elections, said the new intake faced a big challenge coping with the workload and responsibility which came with the job. He said: "For the ones that are new, it's getting their heads around the issues that face the city. You have to keep some time for yourself and, if you're working, you have to balance that with your council activities. Trying to keep a sensible balance is difficult but essential if you want to make a success of it."

So his advice to the city's new councillors? "Don't take short cuts, don't play games and treat it as seriously as you would treat any other job."




Dark past of the Ukrainian 14th Waffen SS Galizien Division


AROUND 8500 members of the Ukrainian 14th Waffen SS Galizien Division were given refuge in Britain after the war.

British defence officials are reported to have believed at the time that the Nazi-trained anti-Soviet troops could be used as a possible fighting force against communism.

The 16,000-strong division was formed in 1943 charged with "pacifying" villages and taking part in actions against underground armies in Poland and Slovakia. Many signed up to fight after years of Soviet oppression, seeing the Third Reich as a route to an independent Ukraine.

Galizien units have been accused of participating in atrocities during the war. These include the murder of 1200 mainly elderly people in the Huta Peniatska, and 44 civilians as young as three in Chlaniow - both in Poland in 1944. They were also said to have played a major part in a 1941 massacre of 7000 Jews.

Some 1400 of the original Galizien still survive in the UK. Last year MP Andrew Dismore launched a House of Commons motion calling for those accused of crimes to be brought to justice, but the Government has said there is not enough evidence.

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1

,

08/05/2007 10:57:23
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2

Smythe,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 10:59:32

I am more concerned with the fact that he has been elected to two different bodies. he cannot posibly serve both and claim all the allowances for both. he should step down from one or the other with immediate effect. If he does not then imediately the SNP will have an allowances scandal around their neck

3

ColinEdin,

08/05/2007 11:02:18

Why on earth should it matter what ones father did? Surely your own actions are the important ones... We live in a modern society, not some old testament barbarism where God would punish children for the deeds of their parents.

This is a complete non-story.

4

Skatedad,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 11:02:40

Remember Dresden!!!

5

Tonto43,

Midlothian 08/05/2007 11:03:12

What a garbage article trying to demean an MSP.

Evening news please stick to actual news and not this rubbish.

The MSP in question has no control over what his father did or did not do.

6

Paul Voltaire,

08/05/2007 11:04:13

What a totally underwhelming story.

7

Lothians111,

08/05/2007 11:04:13

EN do you not like the SNP?

8

Allan (Glasgow),

08/05/2007 11:07:26

AND WHAT?!!

Scotsman for goodness sake get a grip.

9

Jim Smith,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 11:16:56

methinks the SNP are just beginning to discover the trappings of power ;-))

10

ailein,

Germany 08/05/2007 11:21:31

What a nasty little article, unecessary and irrelevant to Mr Tymkewycz's job as an MSP or councillor. I have often thought that SNP supporters complain too much or exaggerate the media "spin" against them, but now I'm not so sure. In fact, I would go so far as to say that this article is a disgrace and totally unbecoming to the evening newspaper of Scotland's capital city. A cheap attempt to smear the SNP.

11

,

08/05/2007 11:21:34
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Reason:
12

alex paterson,

embra 08/05/2007 11:22:38

What can one say,Apart from WC reading matter.

13

CB,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 11:23:13

This is all rather sensationalist. In fact, it's rather as though the EN were trying to smear Mr. Tymkewycz, or they would not have printed the exhaustive details about the Waffen SS's activities in Ukraine.

There is an issue about him taking on two roles, but it seems he is deciding which to take on, so clarifying things. If he leaves the council, what happens to his seat? Another SNP member takes it? The candidate with the next highest number of votes in that ward? The latter would let another Tory in... If he leaves the Parliament, what then? Presumably another person on the SNP Lothians list takes his place?

14

ailein,

Germany 08/05/2007 11:25:04

I've now seen the cover picture which goes with this story. Newspapers in Britain are pretty dire, and this is Sun level reporting.

15

Andrew fae Rosyth,

08/05/2007 11:26:00

what a completely irrelevant story. its not taken this paper long to nail its colours to the mast.

16

TSG,

08/05/2007 11:27:43

Ditto everything apart from Dresden remark.

Sins of the father do pass onto the son.

Any strippers or clowns ? Any Penguin walkers at Edinburgh Zoo ?

1. Is Correct . Who gives AF.

17

Greig in Aus,

08/05/2007 11:28:25

gutter journalism

18

,

08/05/2007 11:30:21
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19

SunShine,

08/05/2007 11:31:15

Now that the truth has been uncovered, he should resign immediately.

20

,

08/05/2007 11:31:22
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21

Lothians111,

08/05/2007 11:33:30

The Sun at least has good pictures

22

Nectar,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 11:33:37

I wonder if the EN/Scotsman can see the pattern in these posts?
What a pile of guff this article is. Just so we have the public interest straight:
Someone's 86 year old father served in an army unit of which there is No evidence of atrocities.
The 1400 strong unit were put in a prison camp for two years, after which the British goverment said they could stay here legally.
60 years later the son of one the 1400 gets a new job.

23

Mackie,

Leith 08/05/2007 11:38:09

Now the mud starts getting flung about eh?
So we have an ex-Australian Soap Actress SNP representative for Leith Walk. Good lord - the world has turned upside down!
What an exciting political year we are going to have.

24

FedUpTaxPayer,

08/05/2007 11:38:19

I'm not a SNP fan, but is there even a story here. This is pathetic. This rubbish should never have made it to press.

25

LeithWalker,

08/05/2007 11:39:49

I trust the Evening News will now print the criminal records of the parent of all of the councillors? It wopuld be about as relevant to the sitting councillors as this story is.

26

Scotty Cameron,

Musselburgh 08/05/2007 11:40:03

Evening News/Scotsman - Labour are going to have to learn lessons from their recent collapse - otherwise they'll simply disappear. Don't you think you should learn a lesson from this too? i.e. get back to being the "proper" newspaper you once were and give up this cr*p! The public voted with thier feet to give Labour a bloody nose - and they'll do it again with your crummy paper!

27

Voice of reason,

08/05/2007 11:41:37

I wonder if the councillor in question had been a Tory ?

28

TSG,

08/05/2007 11:41:47

22. Everybody need good neighbours.

Actually now i have read the story properly I totally understand.

SNP are akin to the Nazi party and we must now have a revolution to get Labour back into power.

Thanks for letting us know EEN.

FFS.

29

pehman,

sussex 08/05/2007 11:43:31

none of the other people mentioned in the report would appear to have been questioned about their parents. Why only this one?

30

Paul Voltaire Jnr,

08/05/2007 11:45:56

16. "Sins of the father do pass onto the son"

In every case?

31

Goel,

Scotland 08/05/2007 11:46:20

For sheer nastiness, vindictiveness and political bias, the Edinburgh Evening News is now far worse than The Scotsman.

I hoped that these newspapers would become a little more 'pro-Scotland' once the Barclays were gone, but clearly there are issues with the existing staff that the stable will not be free of until they are gone.

Johnston PLC should sack EEN editor John McLellan asap. McLellan - who actually presided over some of the News' best years around the turn of the century - is past his sell-by date.

G.

32

PJ,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 11:47:03

I can’t see what relevance this has to do with Mr Tymkewycz's, unless the EN are trying suggest “The sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the son” The currant Pope joined the Hitler Youth, as membership was legally required but he was never involved in anything but I am sure the EN would have him guilty by association.

This is something I expected from the Sun or News of the World, not the Evening News or has it just joined the gutter press elite!

33

Mr Crisps,

Haddington 08/05/2007 11:47:29

Shame on you Evening News.

34

AJ fae Fife,

Fifeshire 08/05/2007 11:51:38

Does this mean the old socialist strongholds in West Lothian's ex-mining communities, will be "pacified", even on a Friday night?

35

pehman,

sussex 08/05/2007 11:53:22

TO the "reporter" brian ferguson, what does/ did your parents do.

36

Mick Maroon,

08/05/2007 11:53:29

I really hoped when the Barclays cleared out we might have got our quality press back. At least a bit.

No such luck, eh? Absolutely shocking standard of 'journalism', the EN should be ashamed of itself.

37

Immutable Name,

of Toll-X 08/05/2007 11:54:28

Yup, me too. Brian Ferguson and the relevant editor(s) should be utterly ashamed of themselves for a blatant smear attempt.
Fortunately, The EN is known for its rabid anti-SNP slant, so it is unlikely to have any effect on anyone who is also not similarly blinkered.

38

Ecco Warrier,

Emburra 08/05/2007 11:55:33

I am more concerned about the two salaries Mr Tymkewycz will collect. Thats whats called jumping on the gravy train.

Bisto Heil

39

Immutable Name,

of Toll-X 08/05/2007 11:56:18

I wonder if these forum remarks could constitute grounds for a complaint to the press commission?
It would be slightly ironic if Brian and his bosses were hoist on their own e-petard

40

TSG,

08/05/2007 12:01:38

34. Brian Fergusson doesnt have a dad, if you catch my drift.

29. "Don't" .

41

TSG,

08/05/2007 12:03:05

A good anagram of Tymkewycz is.. Nah , forget it.

This is PISH. It really is Pish. What kind of world do we live in when this passes at news ?

42

AD,

sunny Livingston 08/05/2007 12:07:55

An article not worth even wiping yer butt on .... it'd make a mess o' the screen anyway!!!

43

Ellen,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 12:10:15

If this was a relative of George Bush we'd be loving it but since this is one of our own representatives it's junk.

44

Peter B,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 12:16:50

And some people think my rants against the media are unwarranted.

This is journalism of the lowest kind.

It's heartening to see so many readers despise Ferguson's 'work'.

45

Linda,

08/05/2007 12:18:20

Typical gutter press from Evening News.

What relevance has this to Mr Tymkewycz's position as a councillor?

Many Ukranians who lived under the brutal Stalin oppressive regime joined the invading German forces as they considered it the lesser of two evils at the time.

46

,

08/05/2007 12:20:13
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47

ian citizen,

galician 08/05/2007 12:21:01

gets your facts straight evening news, god you cant even splell calician properly, my father now dead was in same regiment & if you did proper research you will find that they were front line soldiers & nothing to do with death camps. my mother was also ukrainian ( now also dead ) she spent years in concentration camps in germany so in rspect of her & millions of others memory please get your fact straight

48

Moyasta,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 12:26:16

Gutter journalism by Brian Ferguson, who ought to be ashamed of himself.

49

John Knox for First Meenister,

High St, Embra 08/05/2007 12:29:40

Ah kent his faither!

50

Hezza,

08/05/2007 12:46:39

This is a bit like The Sun revealing that the Pope was in the Nazi Youth...as if to some how make the association between the person/post and Nazi atrocities. In this case, it is far more tenuous and frankly makes the journalist look stupid.

The headlines across the papers from the pope one did make me smile though, eg, "Papa Nazi" and "From Nazi Youth to Papa Ratzi" etc etc.

51

Shelly,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 12:48:13

Just when I thought the EEN couldn't get any worse!

This takes this trashy little paper even further into the gutter.

To Brian - does your dad or any other of your close relatives have any criminal convictions etc?

If you don't fancy writing an article on that tomorrow then I suggest you print an apology for the most pathetic excuse at journalism that I have seen in a long time.

52

JT fae Cardiff,

08/05/2007 12:48:55

Oh good lord, Scotsman/EEN

The SNP are now the biggest party in Holyrood. Get over it, and stop the stupidly negative spin.

When did the EEN merge with the Daily Retard /The Sun? This is what I expect from them.

53

fergiewergie,

Chch, NZ 08/05/2007 13:04:26

Brian Ferguson you are a class 1 muppet. The EEN used to be a good local newspaper covering important events. Now it's just pure urine.

Why does the paper print all these non events ?

He should be sacked for writing this drivel.

54

SOLACE ONE,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 13:06:11

So BRIAN FERGUSON...
How long have you been sitting on this story..?
And what would the outcome have been if you'd run the story 7 days ago...?

55

TSG,

08/05/2007 13:11:53

Wini . You are Misguided here I think.

The SNP are NOT a Nationalist part per se , even though some of their supporters may be.

56

John Knox for First Meenister,

High St, Embra 08/05/2007 13:12:39

Agree with all the comments here. It's irrelevant nonsense who his dad was - its a non-story. The real story, and it's a total disgrace, is the way that it's been presented on the front page of the Evening News. They've used a picture of him with his fist up taken at his election (he was understandably delighted) and presented it with big Nazi type SS lettering above it as if to say 'tomorrow belongs to me'. Bottle of the barrel from EEN.

57

B S,

08/05/2007 13:13:11

A great article.

I for one am keen to know about any of our representatives with funny sounding names.

Keep up the high standards.

58

Glorfindel,

08/05/2007 13:14:29

What the heck does it matter what the man's father did?? Thev sins of the father should NEVER be visited upon the children! Why drag up this nonsense, unless you just want to make mischief!?

A plague on your house Mr Ferguson!!! And the EN for publishing this rubbish too! You want slapped with a paper tissue for a week over this. And I would wrap a house-brick in the tissue too!

Mr Tymkewycz should obviously give up ONE of his posts. That's just being greedy, what with the amounts of money involved!

No kisses for any of you under these circumstances!

Glorfindel
(humpty!)

59

,

08/05/2007 13:14:48
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60

Stuart_,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 13:15:07

Notice the article refers to "Green MSP Steve Burgess". He's a councillor not an MSP you fools! If they can't get the basics right, then you might as well stop reading before you turn over page 1 on this newspaper.

61

les smith,

Runcorn,Cheshire 08/05/2007 13:24:14

They say its in the Genes , i'll bet his son was in a position of authority, probably in some kind of militiristic occupation, i'm not saying like father like son but one has to be wary, maybe down at the pub he's one of the boys.. who knows! . Mr Bohdan Tymkewycz should stand trial if an investigation is initiated and if evidence be found to implicate him in war crimes then he should be priosecuted and justice done before his demise and as for Stefan
'the sins of our fathers'.. well maybe, maybe not.

62

Cramondo,

08/05/2007 13:28:51

This article is abysmal, and if anyone is reading this only on the Web, it is the main story in today's eveing paper. There is no hope for this newspaper and its sisters.

Whatever this man's father may or may not have done more than 50 years ago, has no bearing on his fitness for office.

(not an SNP supporter myself, just outraged by this)

63

Dox,

08/05/2007 13:32:48

3,62 Are you joking? A father passes more than just genetic material to his son. Traditions, values mores and prejudices just to name a few.

58 I don't quite understand what you're getting at. Are you claiming that certain racial types are prone to certain behaviours? Sounds like Nazi propaganda about the Jews and gypsies in reverse.

64

961,

Berwickshire 08/05/2007 13:34:57

"I don't see what relevance this has to me"

Neither do I

65

Peter 100,

08/05/2007 13:36:15

and what has this got to do with Stefan Tymkewycz absolutely nothing, this just the EEN trying to blacken the character of someone because of the so-called sins of his father

66

AJ fae Fife,

Fifeshire 08/05/2007 13:37:22

Wini,

Your description of yourself is very alluring, you're probably past your 'sell-by-date' now at 58, but you paint a pretty picture!!! I always liked the dusky sort!!!

67

Teamdroid,

08/05/2007 13:41:00

Nauseating pice of gutter smear journalism, particularly the cut-out-n-keep history of the "Ukrainian 14th Waffen SS Galizien Division". More proof, if any was needed, of the naked bias of the Scotman/EEN

68

watcher,

East Lothian 08/05/2007 13:50:20

Well done the Evening News on such a good report. We all like to know who our neighbours are. Like father like son both in a National organisation.

69

TSG,

08/05/2007 13:54:55

I heard that Alex Salmonds Father used to arch his cheeks in the direction of his mother and Pump - whilst watching "The Golden Shot" back in the early 70s.

70

Statsman,

08/05/2007 13:56:24

The EEN needs a new editor. This one is dragging the paper to the gutter.

71

Bruce Ma Goose,

08/05/2007 13:59:01

Pitiful.

As to the poster lumping the SNP, the National Front and the SS under the same umbrella. Somebody needs to brush up on their knowledge of "civic nationalism" methinks.

72

Helkat,

edinburgh 08/05/2007 14:00:44

How, precisely is this gutter journalism (whatever that hysterical phrase means)? It's a straightforward story about a man holding public office in this country who was brought up (presumably) by a father who served with one of the most loathsome units created in the 20th century and was named in an early-day motion in Westminster last year by an MP concerned about Nazi criminals taking refuge in Britain. The article makes no accusations against either Stefan Tymkewycz or his father, nor does it, given that Mr Tymkewycz has made no secret of his father's war record, invade privacy. As for those who question what relevance the story has to them, well, does EVERYTHING they read have to be relevant to them. What drab little lives they must lead

73

Mark1,

08/05/2007 14:08:24

Wini,

You are simply pathetic and that comment is shocking.

Sureley you are simply on the windup.

74

IWright,

08/05/2007 14:08:48

I stopped buying this comic some time ago and I see no reason to go back. Gutter journalism.

75

edimck,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 14:16:08

#13: "If he leaves the council, what happens to his seat? Another SNP member takes it? The candidate with the next highest number of votes in that ward? The latter would let another Tory in... If he leaves the Parliament, what then? Presumably another person on the SNP Lothians list takes his place?"

If he steps down as an MSP the next SNP person from the list will take his place.
If he steps down as a councillor, well, that is a good question. How do you hold a by-election in a multi member constituency? Surely all the candidates would need to run again, the other elected incumbents might object :-). Now, that would have been a more useful and constructive article for the EN to be talking about, rather than the activities of ST's father 65 years ago.

76

TSG,

08/05/2007 14:18:04

Wini , I think you give too much credence to the Media.

A picture of a man raising a fist and a story about the SS.

Dont be fooled my Dusky Innocence..

(!)

77

Lothians111,

08/05/2007 14:18:24

#77 WORKS FOR THE en I PRESUME.

78

PJ,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 14:20:17

Wini,

Put the lid back on your Tippex bottle!

79

AJ fae Fife,

Fifeshire 08/05/2007 14:20:52

Wini,

Glad tae here it, and as they say....."there's mony a guid tune played on an auld fiddle"!!!

80

Royster,

08/05/2007 14:22:52

The son is not responsible for the actions of the father.

81

tomias,

southside 08/05/2007 14:26:26

The EN has stooped to the level of propaganda which was once the speciality of Goebbels;

82

AD,

sunny Livingston 08/05/2007 14:28:13

#73 TSG - that would've made a MUCH better story than the tripe they did decide to print!!

83

AD,

sunny Livingston 08/05/2007 14:29:27

Would the EN not be guilty of racism and bullying tactics here??

84

Sense and worth o'er the Earth,

Scotland 08/05/2007 14:33:04

#79 Wini - there's more of a story in your obvious solvent abuse than this garbage?

A pathetic attempt at painting more 'Nazi' connotations on a truly inclusive party? Pathetic Scotsman.

You are quickly becoming the broadsheet Daily Retard - well done. ;o)

As for the presentation Wini, perhaps you should have a word with the Scotsman editor? He, after all - is the only one with any intention here.

85

Sense and worth o'er the Earth,

Scotland 08/05/2007 14:33:48

#92

Eh?

What - we must stop now to stop the SNP ethnic cleansing?

Get a grip you maniac. ;o)

86

Sense and worth o'er the Earth,

Scotland 08/05/2007 14:34:32

Scotsman/EN/SoS/Daily Retard/Sun - nazi publications all ;o)

87

Susie Mac,

South Side 08/05/2007 14:37:01

Never mind what his Dad did - does anyone have his phone number - he's a lot better looking than any Labour/Lib Dems/Socialist politicians.

88

Sense and worth o'er the Earth,

Scotland 08/05/2007 14:38:35

Wow - just read Wini's comments at #58.

Tell me Wini. What is it like? Being a complete nutcase?

Next you'll be asking for the SNp candidates to line up for a complete Phrenology session - just in case the 'deil is in any of them.

Btw, if you are fascinated by peeps with nasty traits, then you might want to look at small unionist elements at Ibrox on a Saturday...

...or in the sinews of New Labour's Scottish administration. ;o)

89

PJ,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 14:38:44

Wini,

My one sentence in my comment #85 does not have any foul language in it.

It is intended for laughter or amusement: comedic, humorous, jocose, jocular, witty. If you have read something into that, it is your mind and no-one else’s!

90

Kenny A,

08/05/2007 14:38:49

Wini

I think you have confused the BNP with the SNP, big style. There are Asian members of the SNP as well. The are not all Norse or Saxon, Germanic types hell bent on some Racist pogrom.

91

Sense and worth o'er the Earth,

Scotland 08/05/2007 14:42:04

Heh-heh - Wini, didn't we have a wee history lesson last week?

Or was that Lia? Or is Lia you?

Here it is, just for you sweetcheeks.

Welsh or, in fact, what it derived from [ancient Brythonic) - was a 'P Celtic' language:

Then - on the land of Southern Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, and what we would call 'England' today.

i.e. Welsh, Cornish, Breton all derive from this.

Gaelic derives from the 'Q Celtic' strain.

Then, on the land of Scotland, parts of Cumbria, Innes Man, Eire

i.e. Scots Gaelic, Irish Gaelic and Manx all derive from this.

The invading Romans did not push Brythonic Celtic peoples to the edges of the British Isles!

They defeated/settled them, and eventually created a hugely sophisticated Brytho-Roman society.

These people *were* in turn chased by invading Jutes, Saxons and Angles - as the ancient Brythonic tales narrate. Some of these people pleaded with the Brythonic cousins in what is now Edinburgh. Most were hemmed into Cornwall and Wales for the duration.

What happened to these people is hugely controversial. English historians are not very comfortable with the idea of hordes of Saxons wiping out native peoples - and will go to great lengths to show that there is no 'archaelogical evidence'.

However, most historians would agree that - though at some point there would DOUBTLESS have been 'settling' - it didn't happen anything like the Roman invasions. Dark-age genocide is a dead-cert.

Recent blood studies have indicated that the populations of Suffolk, for example, have overwhelming Anglo-Saxon heritage. The Geordies have a largely Anglo-Saxon/Danish/Celt bloodline etc

The P-Celtic line is still overwhelmingly the case in Wales and Cornwall.

In Scotland Q-Celtic is still the overwhelming principle line - though there are also strong Norse [Northern Viking] lineages as well as the ancestors of those P-Celtic Brythonics. There is also a good deal of Jute in

92

Bruce Ma Goose,

08/05/2007 14:42:10

In fairness to Wini. If you were wanting to instigate genocide then standing on an anti-nuclear, anti-war platform, continually preaching racial tolerance, being pro-immigration and having the only non-IC1 member of the Scottish parliament in your own party would be the way to go about it. Those pesky, deceitful Nats! How can I have been so blind as to not see their villainous long term plans for a racially pure, warmongering nation.

93

Mr Flibble,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 14:42:33

#58
In reposnse to your claim - "In WW2 the nazis had one surprise fluke win over France after which they suffered defeat after defeat until the final massacre of the entire nazi army at Stalingrad." - that's utter tripe. The German army had numerous victories after invading France (er...Market Garden and Dunkirk to name just two).
I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to prove, but at least get your history right.

As for the article itself, I couldn't agree more with most of the comments on here. I honestly can't see what merit this story has. I'd be more concerned if it turned out that the councillor himself was an SS officer with anti-semitic tendancies and a history of war crimes. Or even if he had been displaying nazi-sympathising traits during his canvassing.
I really couldn't care less what his 80-odd-year-old father did more than 60 years ago. It's just not news and is something I would expect from the red tops rather than a title that was newspaper of the year until just recently.

How the mighty have fallen.

94

,

08/05/2007 14:43:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 604206, Article id was mapped to record!
95

Jimmy the Pie,

North Sea 08/05/2007 14:46:34

Is this relevant to anything? My father was a chemist - so what!!
Another load of $hite from the gutter press

96

John Jamieson,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 14:51:51

Brian Ferguson has hit a new low in journalism. He is a disgrace to his profession.

97

Hebb,

Scotland 08/05/2007 14:53:35

See that Nobel Peace Prize winner Nelson Mandela, that's right, the one who led the people of South Africa to freedom and democracy after decades of white racist rule. Well, according to the more intellectually challenged on this forum he must be a Nazi 'cos he led a party called the African NATIONAL Congress. So it clearly follows that the Scottish NATIONAL Party and Stefan Tymkewycz, with that party's historic commitment to achieving Scottish independence through totally peaceful means i.e persuading the public to vote for them in elections, are neo-nazis. Yeah, I can see the connection right enough.

A pathetic, disgraceful article by the Evening News.

If this is the level that some in the Labour/Tory supporting unionist media are prepared to stoop to in order to attack the SNP just after the election then God knows what lies in store. Four years of unremitting negativity and lies about the SNP/Greens probably. No change there then.

98

Eckyboo,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 14:57:20

I have actually met this man and some pther members of the Ukranian community and I know that this story is not the full picture of what actually happaned The usual rubbish from the Evening News, only one side of the story.

99

Arthur,

08/05/2007 14:58:00

When are the media going to wise up to the fact that they can only manipulate the simple minded and idiotic
few who believe every single word in print is the gospel truth.
The rest of us know who owns the papers, and what their agendas are.
It is now time to get our enlightenment as to what is going on in the world from unbiased sources not controlled by the vested interests who will always attempt to keep us tied to their purse strings.
Such articles are beneath contempt, and I would have expected better of Brian Fergusson, but then who pays his wages, tells him what to write ???

100

Angus McIonnach,

Embra 08/05/2007 15:01:31

What a disgusting morsel of gutter journalism.

101

Sarcasm,

08/05/2007 15:01:32

103. "And Barry Ferguson is not gay, a bigot...."

and in the meantime can we have your views on the journalist in question.

102

Sarcasm,

08/05/2007 15:04:55

108. ".. they can only manipulate the simple minded and idiotic few .."

Not so few I'm afraid, that's why certain newspapers have swayed the outcome of elections.

103

Kenny A,

08/05/2007 15:05:43

#100

Don't forget the Picts. Who were rumoured to have come from the Middle East. The "Cruithene", as they were known. The Scots own legends have them coming from Egypt at the dawn of time so that clobbers Wini's racial leanings a bit as not a lot of Germanic types from there.

Still a bit astounded by her post, must be a wind up.

104

TSG,

08/05/2007 15:08:56

I just found out today we Scots came from Egypt (if you can be bothered following the links below to their ultimate conclusion).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoti
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scota
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neferhotep_I

Yes, it may be garbage but I bet it woul make a bloody good story ! Barry Ferguson should be hung drawn and qaurtered. Along with anyone else ... dum dem dum de dum

105

CB,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 15:10:14

Never mind what his dad did. A quick Google reveals this Tymkewycz fella is a die-hard Hibs fan, which gets the seal of approval from me! Check out his antics on tour with the Hibees if you don't believe me:

http://www.hibs.net/londonhibs/latest/france_2001/france_...

Or his fan profile:

http://www.hibs.net/londonhibs/profiles/stefan.htm

106

Peter B,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 15:13:12

Let's boycott the EN and force this poor quality journalism out.

Councillors should ban Ferguson from all council property.

If he should ever try this contemptable style of writing again he should sued to lifelong penury along with the 'editor.'

The overwhelming views of the correspondants above should be taken as a warning that what you are doing is unacceptable.

107

Sense and worth o'er the Earth,

Scotland 08/05/2007 15:14:45

Yup - hats off tae ye Kenny A. You're bang-on.

There is more evidence to suggest they were also 'Celts' - albeit, possibily one of the *first* Atlantic-coast dwelling peoples (in Scoltand).

Celtic nowadays is applied to all those different tribes that lived on these islands. By way of a mute point, especially by a few English historians, the Celts didn't refer to themselves as Celtic (a generic Roman/Greek name for these peoples) but shared a commanility of language, custom, religion etc

Therefore, we can use the term today to describe the race.

The Picts are fascinating - likely a fiercely independent stone-age 'Celtic' population.

108

Helkat,

edinburgh 08/05/2007 15:16:48

#84 You presume wrong

109

Confused,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 15:17:03

THIS IS DISGRACEFUL.
THE EVENING NEWS HAS HIT A NEW LOW IN BIASED SENSATIONALISM.
AN APOLOGY SHOULD BE PRINTED ON TOMORROW'S FRONT PAGE.

110

Dave B,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 15:20:17

What a pathetic post by the race obsessed 58 year old big brother viewer..
Perhaps you should consider that the SNP now has the first asian MSP, before tarring it with the BNP brush.

Regarding the artlicel, It does seem like tabloid type material. Whoever the guys father was, he should be judged on his own merits.
Or where does it end? It's like the slavery question.

It didn't do Arnold Schwarzenegger any harm. His father was allegedly a nazi stormtrooper, yet he is one of the most popular politicians in the US.

111

DC,

08/05/2007 15:25:31

I agree that this is gutter journalism. I confidently look forward to a similar outpouring of righteous indignation from all the born-again Bravehearts the next time a local LABOUR politician is done over by the EEN.

There must be a first time for everything.

112

Kenny A,

08/05/2007 15:26:42

#117

Some interesting info on the Picts, they merged with the Scots, Kenneth MacAlpine was half Pictish himself, and after a bit of murder and intermarring with the Scots they seem to have vanished. Guess this is because they did not leave any written history, (but were pretty keen on carving on rocks). Not genocide mind.

Independant to true, Calgagus is ment to have given some seriously nationalistic speach before the Battle of Mons Grompus, according to the Roman historians. Nationalists even in those days.

Well mysterious and interesting people, cleaver also, built vitrafied forts in the North, still cannot duplicate this faet even to this day.

Worth looking at the "Pictish Nation", website.

TSG also.

113

Kenny A,

08/05/2007 15:27:58

#101 Bruce

Like it.

114

Swilly Tisher,

Loch Maree 08/05/2007 15:28:37

Oh aye , here we go again - more underhand swipes at the SNP , worthy of the Murdoch group. You'll be telling us next that Alex Salmond's great , great , grandfather was hung for sheep rustling in Dingwall town centre. Get a life.

115

Scot in London,

London 08/05/2007 15:28:46

This is complete crap. I've known Stef Tymkewycz for years and if he is a Nazi then I'm a dutchman. As the report says, he's never hidden his father's past. A large of Scots of Ukrainian ancestry would be descendents of members of the Galician division, are they all Nazis as well?

116

Sense and worth o'er the Earth,

Scotland 08/05/2007 15:29:03

Aye - nice one #101 ;o)

117

Ann Berczuk,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 15:30:27

A disgraceful piece of "gutter press" reporting, we're lucky to have Stefan and even more lucky not to have been in Stalin occupied Ukraine in 1939-45 period and prior to that when over 7 million Ukrainians were deliberately starved to death and their very existance post death denied this over a 2 year period -25,000 deaths A DAY!! No wonder the Ukrainian Nationalists fought for freedom and eventually joined the S.S..This has nothing to do with Stefan and his well earned victory. Shame on you Evening News join the group of Sun reporters!!!

118

mooseloose,

08/05/2007 15:30:32

Thanks EN, you will be saving me 37p a day from now on.
What a hideous article, you should be ashamed.
I have already stopped buying the Scotsman, and I urge any sane person to do the same.
Your biased newspapers have no place in a democratic Scotland.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

119

Kenny A,

08/05/2007 15:31:28

#120 Dave

Yup, for the folks who do not know, Mr Bashir Ahmad, well pointed out.

120

TSG,

08/05/2007 15:34:51

Bashir Ahmad's dad was a nazi too.

Joke. I repeat JOKE.

Who knows when this sort of garbage makes the front page.

I'm getting the Scottish Cringe.

121

DC,

08/05/2007 15:35:55

It is pretty cheap journalism, but if it gets all the whingeing Bravehearts boycotting the EEN and thus off this site, Barry Ferguson's day has not been entirely wasted :-)

Get used to it, guys - it is the kind of thing political Parties in power get all the time. The mature response is just to ignore it for the tripe it is.

122

Gregorf,

08/05/2007 15:39:09

I was going to post something but why bother -we have all figured out the Scotsman and have hopefully stopped buying it.

123

TSG,

08/05/2007 15:39:30

I hope Barbara Ferguson is proud of herself.

124

IainGlasgow,

08/05/2007 15:42:08

I believe Arnold "Governator" Schwarzenneger's father also served in the SS or the Gestapo as did the fathers of a not insignificant number of German and Austrian citizens.

It is utterly deplorable that the Evening News has lowered itself to Daily Mail level and made a headline of this! It makes a mockery of all the people who suffered at the hands of the Nazis and I expect to see a follow up article tomorrow by way of a written apology to them.

125

JT fae Cardiff,

08/05/2007 15:48:56

#134 dinny count on it.

Tomorrows headline is more likely to be "Salmond's Great Granny Ate Children" or "Hitler Voted SNP" or something utterly pointless

126

PJ,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 15:49:51

Wini,

Your assertion that your history is right!

Operation Market Garden was an Allied military operation during World War II in 1944.

127

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 15:52:36

Amazing stuff ... the sins of the parents shall be visited upon the children ? .. and I thought that was only confined to some wee toons in the Borders ...

How about ex bank manager swindles bank, swindles local rugby team, then becomes a local councillor, swindles common good fund, & covers up a 4million fraud at the Council ?
would that be news perhaps ?

128

JT fae Cardiff,

08/05/2007 15:57:35

Wini I'm not sure how or why you're lumping the SNP with the BNP? Is it because BNP is almost spelt the same as SNP and it's confusing you?

I can't see any other reason you could be doing this, because it is certainly not based on any understanding of the quite blatantly different ideals and policies of the two parties.

Do you also attack the BNP Paribas bank in France because that has a similar name too, y'know.

129

Allan Retentive,

08/05/2007 16:01:07

This may be the worst piece of "journalism" I've ever read in the Evening News.

And considering you've published John Gibson every week for the past 40-odd years, that's some achievement.

Truly a new low.

130

izzie,

dundee 08/05/2007 16:01:25

oh lord preserve us is this all we can expect

what about the shambles the dirty tricks

and the mis information we have suffered.

GET A GRIP

131

Lothians111,

08/05/2007 16:01:42

"Hitler Voted SNP lol

132

2dogs in D.C.,

barking at nonsence 08/05/2007 16:02:40

Yep, and I have ancestors who were confederate soldiers. So what? this is a BFD.

133

Old Town Resident,

08/05/2007 16:08:06

Shocking, I wonder if the journalist in question is now regretting this non story. What the people of Edinburgh want to know is what the councillors are going to do to improve the lives of all in Edinburgh, and what they are going to do to preserve its uniqueness in history and architecture.
This surely is what is required of a local paper....local democracy...not spreading this sort of thing. Sales may well be affected. I know I didn`t buy it when I saw the newstands.

134

DC,

08/05/2007 16:10:00

Aw, diddums. Don't you Bravehearts think you're over-reacting just a tad? Serious political parties get this sort of trash all the time. Ignore it, get over it and move on.

135

Steve98,

Barry Ferguson should be ashamed. 08/05/2007 16:15:26

If he isn't ashamed of himself, then his father should be.

136

Polmonto,

08/05/2007 16:16:35

I think the author, Brian Ferguson, whom I wouldn't go as far as to categorise as a journalist, should appologise for this story: it is disgusting.

137

Steve98,

Why removed???? 08/05/2007 16:26:16

I put up a posting to say that Barry Ferguson (award winning journalist) is not a child molester, nor a convicted paedophile, nor does he cruise the gay bars of Edinburgh at the weekends.

Barry unfortunately was unavailable for comment.

Why does the EEN not accept truthful statements like this in the forum?

I hope it is true of course, but Barry if it isn't we should be told!

138

Gilbie's Boy,

08/05/2007 16:27:00

Sorry folks, but I have had to change my opinion about the usefulness of the Evening News - I now would NOT even allow this "newspaper" to come into contact with my fish and chips.

How much more of this "journalism" do the people of Edinburgh have to put up with? People might say "well why read it then", and that's a fair point, but when it is "the" evening paper for the Capital City, surely we have a right to expect better?

PLEASE - COULD THE EDITORIAL TEAM CONTRIBUTE THEIR "WISDOM" TO THIS PARTICULAR DISCUSSION - I'D LOVE TO HEAR THEIR JUSTIFICATION FOR THE ARTICLE AND WHY THEY THINK IT IS RELEVANT?

And if you are thinking of asking "is he shouting?" you are damn right I am!

GB

139

Alex.,

08/05/2007 16:28:51

He doesn't look old enough to have been born during world war 2. Move on.

140

,

08/05/2007 16:33:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
141

Swilly Tisher,

Loch Maree 08/05/2007 16:36:49

I'm reminded by a family member that a second cousin of my grandfather's - hungry for work in the dusty days of mass unemployment in the USA - helped construct the first "humane" gas chamber in the state of Nevada. Way back in 1929. Clearly, I wish I hadn't been reminded of this family fact. But does that make ME a bad person ? I think not.

142

Herr General,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 16:39:33

#145 and all like you...

...Why should we accept the gutter press assaulting our senses with this sort of tripe just because they have *always* done it in the past? No matter what government has been in power, they always come up with rubbish like this, so there is no point claiming it is nationalist whinging.

Unlike an earlier comment, the mature response to this type of reporting is to encourage more intellectually relevant argument from our daily newspapers. Why accept that we should contiune to consume trash just because thats what we've always had?

It's time for a change.

143

J,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 16:46:44

As the husband and father of jews, I think that the Evening News has done no good to the honest people who seek out Nazis who carried out atrocities.

A very unfortunate decision was taken by the Editor to print this article and the treatment given on the front page of the print edition is abusive.

I am surprised no recently elected councillors have come in and complained about this. They certainly should.

Perhaps during the first full council meeting they should pass a motion condemning the Evening News for this article. I would assume it should be proposed and seconded by councillors who are not members of the SNP.

144

AD,

sunny Livingston 08/05/2007 16:50:14

#141 Why email the writer of this (I'm not using the world journalist!) he'll only ignore it?

Methinks writing to his superiors is called for because this is a complete disgrace.

145

Steve Foley,

England 08/05/2007 16:59:00

Why the hell publish this story unless to cause mischief? This man cannot be held in anyway responsible for the acts of his father in a far off country a long time ago. Any decent Editor would have spiked such rubbish.

I cannot help but wonder if The Scotsman would have published such a story had a Labour Candidate had a father who had been an IRA Activist during the "Troubles" for example?

The Electorate in Edinburgh have judged this man and found him worthy irrespective of the actions of his father. That's good enough for me and personally I cannot see why he should not be both an MSP and an Edinburgh Councillor, plenty of MPs in the past have discharged both roles and as long as he is careful about his expenses I can see no problem.

Best Wishes Cllr Stefan Tymkewycz MSP, I wish you well in your elected offices.

146

Dan McLean,

E Lothian 08/05/2007 16:59:59

And the problem is?????.
What on earth has his fathers service with the SS got to do with him and his position with the SNP. I would imagine this is more muck slingging from the Labour lot who just cant take a beating.
Dan

147

Iain Ban,

Kirkcaldy 08/05/2007 17:03:11

And what has his dad´s past got to do with the price of fish? The Evening News is scraping the barrel this time.

148

Donald Brown,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 17:14:01

I am really surprised at the Evening News for even considering to print this rubbish. When I buy/read a paper I expect some decent journalism not a smear campaign. For this to be on the front page, the editor should be sacked. What a waste of paper.

149

Kenny A,

08/05/2007 17:18:59

#100

Just remembered Norwegian Viking in Northern and Western Isles. Danish Viking in rest of UK. Norman influance almost impossible to isolate as their ancestors originaly came from Denmark area along with the Jutes et al.

Iceland mixture of Norse and Celtic genes, imagine that? So my pal in Iceland let me know.

Not exactly to do with the main topic but thought it may be of interest.

150

Jim A,

08/05/2007 17:34:09

Sour grapes and mudslinging from Labour because Big Joke is no longer Der Fuehrer

151

Allan Retentive,

08/05/2007 17:39:34

If you want to express your views on how this newspaper is being edited, you should contact Johnston Press plc on this link.

If enough readers register their distaste, we might see an apology for this gutter journalism.

http://www.johnstonpress.co.uk/Contact.aspx

152

ANTM,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 17:53:48

I bet they couldnt print half the stuf about his dad because it was too hard to prove it all. Well done BF for some investigative journalism.

153

,

08/05/2007 18:12:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
154

ANTM,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 18:14:22

If it was in the public domain then why was everyone so outraged by it?

155

,

08/05/2007 18:17:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
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156

macshoestring,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 18:25:51

Was this article written by a closet Labour supporter whose is unaware that gossip spreads anger just as surely as north winds bring rain?
macshoestring

157

First Minister,

Bute House 08/05/2007 18:26:57

I just despair at the quality of "JOURNALISM" in this once proud paper.
I think it is rather foolish commercially for Johnston press to continue with this negativity towards the SNP, talk about digging your own grave?

158

,

08/05/2007 18:31:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
159

First Minister,

Bute House 08/05/2007 18:35:56

Watcher/Agent Provocateur, you fool no one!
Grow up with your childish rants. At least contribute something worthwhile?
What if Euan Blair wants to go into politics? Are you trying to suggest that he shouldn't be allowed to enter politics because his father is Tony Blair? Ridiculous!

160

Marecisko,

Slovakia 08/05/2007 18:36:08

Hi, Iam from Slovakia - It´s sad story, that people like
mr. Tymkewycz father found shelter in U.K. For what they done during WW II in my country, for all death Jews, women and children, for all war crimes, they must spend rest of their life in prison - not on quite pension in Scotland!

161

Allan Retentive,

08/05/2007 18:39:32

I've just seen the front page of the print edition. It's even worse than the internet version, with the Nazi SS logo incorporated into the headline, juxtaposed with the above clenched fist salute from Cllr Tymcewycz. The attempt at inference is obvious (and unsubtle). It's truly shameful reporting.

The editor of this rag is John McLellan. I assume that his email address is:

jmclellan@edinburghnews.com

162

Glorfindel,

08/05/2007 18:41:00

I have to admit my daddy looks at me and you can just see his brain screaming the words in two foot high letters in a deep flame-red, "WHAT DID I DO WRONG TO HAVE MY SON TURN OUT LIKE THAT??"

Sins of the father?? He told me when I was FIVE that Santa was dead!!!

That is my defence .... I am his punishment!

Now, who wants to bid for MY life story?? It's much more interesting than a father being a nasty Nazi!

My daddy killed Santa Claus!!!

Glorfindel
(needing hugs and kisses, lots of them!)

163

Derick fae Yell,

Earth 08/05/2007 18:41:09

finally the press has managed to shock me.

Does anybody actually buy this rag?????

but, wait...the fellow does look a bit 'foreign'... and that's a pretty foreign sounding name... Good work EEN...they must be watched...

Tossers.

164

,

08/05/2007 18:51:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
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165

Swilly Tisher,

Loch Maree 08/05/2007 19:03:46

I also know someone who's father was a Hun...he supported Rangers.

166

oder,

Scotland 08/05/2007 19:05:24

So what! the queens uncle thought the Nazi`s were nice people too does that make her guilty by association? I would suggest that the EEN/Scotsman
try concentrating on how to improve your standard of journalism.

167

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 19:07:53

I think we are going to have to keep this page for posterity, such is the importance of the story !

No doubt later on, if Mr Tymkewycz slips up in something, this will be cast up again .. or we can expect Holyrood to be tagged as the new Reichstag ?

I was just digging around for soem other headlines .. how about former jumper knitter gets appointed to Council Housing Stock Chief, converts it to Housing Association, wastes all the money then plunges said Association into huge debt & ruin ? or famed LibDem Councillor & Farmers Boss gets off the hook from Salamander St crawl ? ...

Admittedly, I haven't seen the print issue yet .. have to send out the dog to buy one quickly or will that end up as law critic makes dog carry newspaper ?

168

oder,

Scotland 08/05/2007 19:09:01

So what! the queens uncle thought the Nazi`s were nice people too does that make her guilty by association? I would suggest that the EEN/Scotsman
try concentrating on how to improve your standard of journalism.

169

oder,

Scotland 08/05/2007 19:10:14

Oops sorry slip of the fingers

170

First Minister,

Bute House 08/05/2007 19:10:35

Watcher, you are no socialist brother, have you heard of an individual country's right to self - determination? it is enshrined in the UN Constitution if you care to look/ surely as a socialist you recognize that right? i am an Englishman supporting SNP, how can i be described as racist nutter?
Scottish Not British

171

First Minister,

Bute House 08/05/2007 19:13:47

Watcher, watcher, can i not be a supporter of the SNP who chooses to live in Edinburgh?

172

Märio Antoinette,

08/05/2007 19:15:03

Oh dear. How many copies of the EEn did they sell today- that is the bottom line.

Its not news and its not clever, but it sells copy.

Thank God I have a soul, these assholes havent.

173

Marecisko,

Slovakia 08/05/2007 19:15:16
174

Märio Antoinette,

08/05/2007 19:16:39

179 A perfect example of the EEN target readership.

A Self deluded state dependant cretin.

175

Steve Foley,

England 08/05/2007 19:23:06

Hold on, reality check here # 182. I would think that this man is younger than me and I'm 54 and take absolutely no blame whatsoever for anything my father or grandfather or any other ancestor of mine may have done. His father could have been Reinhardt Heydrich or Heinrich Himmler for all I care, or even Joe Stalin or Lavrenti Beria if you want two Commie Monsters instead. Whatever his father may have done he was not a party to so he should be judged only on his own words and actions.

Stefan Tymkewycz was elected as an SNP councillor in the Craigentinny/Duddingston ward and was also voted in as an MSP on the Lothians regional list, though he has still to decide whether to take on both roles.

The former Metropolitan Police officer, who was born in Abbeyhill and still lives in the area.

Those are the RELEVANT facts from the article in the EN and on those alone should he be judged, that and his future conduct and effectiveness as an Elected Representative. I would think that a former Policeman is a fit and proper person to be made an MSP and a Councillor whatever his father may have done as they are two separate and distinct people.

Surely, Wini, you are not one who believes that the "sins of the fathers are to be visited upon their children" I thought that idea died in the Middle Ages if not before?

176

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 19:25:34

saved the dogwalk ... front page here : http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/frontpage.cfm

That'll be up in the Labour spin doctors room tonight !

177

iainbhern,

08/05/2007 19:27:58

So Stefan's father was in a branch of the SS that may or may not have committed atrocities ! What a non story. I find the thought of Alex Salmond attempting to run Scotland far more worrying.

178

watcher,

East Lothian 08/05/2007 19:29:01

Does the First Minister as a self confessed Englishman ever read the Guardian.
Quote!
Hitler's Ukrainian SS division was created from the merger of many different units, including the Nightingale battalion, said to have participated in the massacre of thousands of Jews in Lvov, Ukraine, and the Ukrainian Self Defence Legion, accused of murdering villagers in eastern Poland. Some Galizien troops are said to have played a part in the bloody suppression of the 1944 Warsaw uprising, while others are alleged to have murdered a number of British and American airmen who were being sheltered by partisans in Slovakia. Its soldiers were Ukrainian nationalists.

By the way you are supporting an organisation whos motto at one time was "English out"

179

BIG EYE,

Paisley 08/05/2007 19:30:50

I know Stefan personally and a more decent person you would find it hard to meet.

If my Dad flew a spitfire does this mean I can too?

This is a complete non story and can only lead to further drops in the circulation...turkeys and christmas come to mind!

180

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/05/2007 19:31:40

172 - you're presuming poster 167 knows his own faither.

181

Märio Antoinette,

08/05/2007 19:32:13

I'll do it if you want .

182

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/05/2007 19:33:57

171 - Wini you're scraping the barrel. Give up before you make an even bigger diddy of yersel.

183

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/05/2007 19:34:53

182 Wini you ARE a diddy.

184

Steve Foley,

England 08/05/2007 19:35:10

#191 this is getting silly! My name is Stefan in German, that does not make me a Nazi, any more than its Slavic equivalent Istvan makes me a Commie. The name Adolf is still common in many countries even the peace loving Swedes use it. Calling me Stefano would not make me one of Franco's Falangists either.

By all means attack this new SNP Councillor and MSP on his polices and actions, that's Democracy , but I feel that to attack him on a guilt by association basis because of his name or his father's activities long, long ago is just stupid. What next? Attack the Pope because he is a German and for a brief period was in the Hitler Youth which was compulsory for all German Boys in those days. Let's get real!

185

,

08/05/2007 19:35:45
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186

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/05/2007 19:36:10

191 - and your point ?

187

Märio Antoinette,

08/05/2007 19:37:34

Wini , be careful in the game you play .

If zou are saying there are gentic characteristics connected to evil and racism are you saying that only applies to white people ?

Please dont go down that road. Think about what you are saying here, you are justifying your own complaints.

188

Polmonto,

08/05/2007 19:38:46

#148 - Steve98

I thought your post (copied below) was highly entertaining!

I had not heard that about Mr Ferguson, as described. Interesting. There should not be an investigation into it, and no-one should write about it.

"I put up a posting to say that Barry Ferguson (award winning journalist) is not a child molester, nor a convicted paedophile, nor does he cruise the gay bars of Edinburgh at the weekends.

Barry unfortunately was unavailable for comment.

Why does the EEN not accept truthful statements like this in the forum?

I hope it is true of course, but Barry if it isn't we should be told!"

189

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/05/2007 19:39:03

Watcher you are Wini's twin diddy

190

First Minister,

Bute House 08/05/2007 19:40:58

Wini and Watcher, watcher, are not who they say they are. Labour Party Members i suspect?
Lord Grant Thy Marshall Wade , crush rebellious Scots and all that old chap?

191

Steve Foley,

England 08/05/2007 19:41:52

Quote from Wini #201

"There are different breeds of humans, each with its own characteristics. So the parent is reflected in the child."

That is exactly what the Nazi Eugenists believed and tried to put into action by selective breeding. You are not seriously saying that you believe that just like them!

Look, you don't like the guy, he is SNP, he won both a Council Ward and a Regional Seat as an MSP. I don't think a lot of some MPs, MSPs, Councillors etc but I don't attack them for their names or the deeds of their parents.

192

ailein,

Germany 08/05/2007 19:47:16

I wonder why the Evening News decided to run this story after the election and not before.

193

MarkP,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 19:49:34

I occassionally buy the Evening News sometimes. Some of there articles are quite interesting but to publish that rubbish on the front page is way out of order. EN get your act together or I shall not be buying
this paper again.

194

Derick fae Yell,

Earth 08/05/2007 19:49:51

Wini Haiku

Wini in a hole.
awful sore labour loser.
Still at the digging

195

Not a taxi lover.,

08/05/2007 19:50:22

I wonder why they ran it at all!
Big deal.

196

IWright,

08/05/2007 19:57:34

wini and watcher, you are SCUM

197

Paula,

08/05/2007 19:59:23

How many generations need to apologise? This was his father, not him, or should we judge the families of murderers and criminals as being the same as the perpetrator?

Was this written by a Labourite?

198

IWright,

08/05/2007 20:01:01

So the reporter is a pedophile, why is he allowed to be a reporter then?

199

Polmonto,

08/05/2007 20:02:47

I hear that Brown Party candidate Jilben McHussein's grandpa was a slobby jobby protestor. You need to watch that Jilben, and the party. Who'd vote for that?

200

Polmonto,

08/05/2007 20:04:40

217 IWright - don't be naughty/silly - he isn't. But he is a bad journo.

201

Derick fae Yell,

Scotland in the World 08/05/2007 20:07:13

Where's AM when somebody is gratuitously insulted and smeared. Off on his high horse somewhere else I suppose.

Wini is expressing clearly racist views. Nice. Modulated - taken away in the backwards pajamas more like and good thing too.

202

Mackie Ringo,

Leith 08/05/2007 20:11:59

I only mentioned the Aussie ex Home and Away soap star as SNP representative for Leith and was amazed that nobody thought that worthy of comment!

203

,

08/05/2007 20:21:35
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204

Derick fae Yell,

Scotland in the World 08/05/2007 20:22:57

I would strongly urge everyone to complain formally to the Press Complaints Commission about this article

The Press Code of Conduct includes under "Accuracy"

i) The Press must take care not to publish inaccurate, misleading or distorted information, including pictures.

ii) A significant inaccuracy, mis-leading statement or distortion once recognised must be corrected, promptly and with due prominence, and - where appropriate - an apology published.

iii) The Press, whilst free to be partisan, must distinguish clearly between comment, conjecture and fact.

You can make a complaint by e-mail including either link or attachment e.g. the offending front page

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/frontpage.cfm
or the article at the head of this thread. Go get em!

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=713582007#new
or by post including the hard copy if you are unfortunate enough to possess one.

http://www.pcc.org.uk/complaints/form.html?

205

Arthur,

08/05/2007 20:26:34

I knew a Brian (not Barry) Fergusson once
in the seventies. He was quite a good DJ but
I believe he had trained as a journalist.
He used to work the old Americana, brfore moving to Radio City in Liverpool then coming back to Radio Filth (oops sorry Forth) in Embra. I wonder if it's the same guy. I'd hate to think he would stoop so low of his own volition, I rather suspect his
masters have told their hacks to dig up the dirt, why else give it front page when there is much more of import going on.
Certainly the EN's circulation should collapse after this, but it probably won't

206

Arthur,

08/05/2007 20:33:21

227 Ask it of him then, not us we neither know nor care. I will judge a man on his
deeds not his fathers.

207

Arthur,

08/05/2007 20:35:09

Wini, wimmin yer oot the box, an yer erse is oot the windae, so stop flappin yer buttocks aboot

208

Arthur,

08/05/2007 20:43:39

I'll put it another, way shall I.
Yer fu o wind, which is the cause of your
posterior problem, and why it is dangling precariously out of your window, pasiing
utter verbal diarrhoea.

209

Arthur,

08/05/2007 20:45:00

Keep diggin hen soon ye'll no be able tae climb oot yon hole.

210

ian citizen,

edinburgh 08/05/2007 20:46:05

if it was muslim politician would it be treated so lightly i dont think so

211

James Donald,

Midlothian 08/05/2007 20:49:08

This is a scandalous smear not only of Stefan Tymkewycz but also of his father. The has been a long running campaign to smear the Galizien Division as War Criminals. There is not enough evidence to bring any member of the Division to trial let alone Bohdan Tymkewycz. Anyone interested in the REAL history of this unit should try this book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Formation-Waffen-SS-Grenad...
rather than the Evening News history.
Andrew Dismore has his own agenda and "plays to a certain audience". He is prominent in Labour Friends of Israel, which is "a Westminster based lobby group working within the British Labour Party to promote the State of Israel".
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Labour_Friends...
He has links to many Jewish organisations within and outwith the UK and was a leading force behind the introduction of (Jewish) Holocaust Memorial Day in the UK. He uses Parliamentary privelige to make unsubstanciated accusations agains Ukrainian soldiers (some of these SS men also fought in the UPA agains both the Germans and the Soviets) Hardly an impartial source carrying as he does the "Torch" once carried by the odious Lord Janner.

212

,

08/05/2007 20:49:58
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213

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/05/2007 20:50:54

Wini 223 I too have what is called a Germanic name - Robert - so effing what ? I have fair hair, blue eyes, Viking ancestry , also have Irish blood in my veins, ditto Highland blood, Borders blood, Ayrshire blood, once again so effing what ?

214

Zhenya,

St Petersburg, Russia 08/05/2007 20:53:49

My granddad was a captain in the Soviet Army during the war and I would question anyone's wits if they said it has not influenced my values, opinions and life altogether. I would definitely want to know such facts if the person in question was to represent my interests. There is no man without roots. I bet it would have been well publicized if his dad had been a hero or anything else worth mentioning.

215

Pilrig,

Livingston 08/05/2007 20:56:56

Arthur 234 - she's about as rational as Vlad Romanov !
No there's a point - Vlad served in the Soviet navy, according to Wini's logic that would make his son Roman a commie.

216

Derick fae Yell,

Scotland in the World 08/05/2007 20:59:51

Dear Wini oh Great "breedist" wtf???

Lets try and take this slowly, lest you spokie your ballot paper.

1 Political views are not inherited
2 Political views are not inherited
3 Political views are not inherited
4 The cover photograph/headline juxtaposition on the EEN front page today is clearly a deliberate and disgusting smear and in breach of clauses i and iii of the Press Code, and also of the introductory text to the code

"All members of the press have a duty to maintain the highest professional standards.."

[The] "code be honoured not only to the letter but in the full spirit."

Any candidate with "SS opinions" wouldn't get within a billion miles of standing for the SNP. Away and boil your bonce (might do it some good)

217

Kenny A,

08/05/2007 21:01:28

Wini

Sorry you are losing the plot and the arguement, your initial post was worth reading as a persons opinion. Wrong in many ways in my opinion and also a few others who have added their comments.

Your recent comments have brought you down a bit.

If you go through the posts, the underlying theme is this MP seems, (no idea about him first hand) fairly decent.

Myself served in the forces most of my life,my father and grandfathers before me etc.

Does that make us bad men.

Following your logic my childern should be cursed regardless. While still struggling with the concept of Christian forgivness, I feel you should give this matter a great deal more thought.

In conflict situations nasty things happen.

Many branches of the SS were animals, others were superb fighting soldiers, don't read anything into that apart from a blunt true statement.

218

Derick fae Yell,

Scotland in the World 08/05/2007 21:07:32

My granny was awful religious, but I am an athiest.

219

Kenny A,

08/05/2007 21:10:52

#202 Steve

Met guys in various regions of the world with names like Bismark, Stalin, Hitler and a lot in Eastern Europe called Ghengis.

Ghengis is OK as a name but most of the other people were slightly embarrased about their name.

No worries a name is a name what you do is what matters.

220

Arthur,

08/05/2007 21:12:06

242) Then perhaps you will get with this,
your postings verge on the libelous to both
the MSP and myself. You know neither of us
yet make assumptions based on lineage.
Your outporings of ignorant bile do not deserve a sensible retort. I suggest you cease now, you are quite obviously in the wrong judging by the vast majority of the preceding postings. This is as sensible as I intend to get.

221

Porty Belle,

08/05/2007 21:13:27

I echo many comments already posted. This man's father' past has nothing to do with his current politics. The article clearly insinuates the MSP/councillor must also be a Nazi. I wonder how long it took the journalist to find the picture used? I also wondered how he can be both an SNP MSP and a city councillor.

222

ian citizen,

edinburgh 08/05/2007 21:13:44

just read the part of the article which donald anderson gives advice to new councillors
DONT PLAY GAMES HE SAYS YOU HAVING A LAUGH YOU LABOURITES HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS ONLY THING NOW IS THE PEOPLE OF GILMERTON & EDINBURGH ARE HAVING THE LAST LAUGH SEE YOU AT THE JOB CENTRE DONALD

223

James Donald,

Midlothian 08/05/2007 21:13:52

Any who try to smear Stefan Tymkewycz because of what his father was have themselves more in common with the Nazis than either father or son. The Nazis called it "Sippenhaft".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sippenhaft

224

Kenny A,

08/05/2007 21:14:40

#246

Derick

Stand by you will be marked as was Cain,and known as a Devil worrishiper, or worse a man who hangs his washing out on the Sabath.

If you can shed a grain of enlightment what is this woman rambleing on about being a Breedist.

Confused .com stuff

225

PJ,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 21:15:36

Wini,

I can't see why someone who claims to so intelligent, can come off sounding so illiterate! Eisenhower believed until his death that Market Garden was a campaign that was worth waging and Montgomery called Market Garden 90% successful, given the odds that they were against but there I digress!

Do I see you getting all steamed up and writing to the Vatican, complaining about the Popes involvement in the Hitler youth! I think not. I think you should take a look at your pitiful attempts at intelligence, as they just coming across as is just coming across as racist insults.

And as for an article being accurate, I have never found anything in the media to be accurate.

I served in the forces, my father and my grandfather does that make us bad or evil men in your warped mind.

As Kenny A, pointed out "Many branches of the SS were animals!" But in times of conflict, what would seem or be deemed inappropriate become the norm and the senses dulled or numbed to the pain.

226

JT fae Cardiff,

08/05/2007 21:20:44

Wini you're aff yer heid.

Totally.

The BNP and SNP are nationalists of totally different types.

The BNP believe in White Supremacy, no immigration, no mixed marriages, and repatriation of non-whites "by persuasion".

The SNP believe in home rule, and erm, thats that. They have no interests in "supremecy" just the right for Scotland to rule Scotland. I haven't heard Alex Salmond say we'd stop different races entering Scotland or removing anyone else who's already here.

You are most confused.

227

Kenny A,

08/05/2007 21:28:30

#253

PJ

Another one who has served, good. To slightly clear my position I do not advocate going OTT though it is stunningly easy to happen. The pain for many gets worse over the years also, memory does not go away, and it has a tendency to comeback to haunt you. War is generaly a younger mans game and young people sometimes grow up.

After times of conflict be bloody grateful you are still alive is the way I look at it. Rules of engagement were designed to prevent excesses happening and while it is usualy lurking in the back of the mind, I must admit it does take a flier on occasion.

Wini would probably say I am a Nazi, and that is as far from the truth as possible, signed up to protect people, possibly a bit naive but thats the fact.

228

Kenny A,

08/05/2007 21:31:08

~255
Wini

Which others, good night.

229

James Donald,

Midlothian 08/05/2007 21:31:34

Stefan Tymkewycz MSP
#255. Wini, Scots in England - "The unanswered question is .... does Stefan have SS opinions and sympathies ?" - you want to know, you ask him but remember, ask a stupid question........
Stefan Tymkewycz MSP
The Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
Telephone: 0131 348 6822
Fax: 0131 348 6825
Holyrood E-mail: Stefan.Tymkewycz.msp@scottish.parliament.uk

230

JT fae Cardiff,

08/05/2007 21:40:01

Wini at 255

Your argument is illogical and irrational.

Because I think the EEN is wrong to portray someone as a Nazi because their father was in the SS 60 years ago you think that makes me a Nazi?

I've visited a concentration camp in Germany and it was a harrowing experience. I've learnt about the 2nd world war and know the ins and outs of how Hitler rose to power. I hope something like WW2 or the persecution of the Jews (or ANY OTHER race) never happens again.

Now you strike me as a first class choob, so I don't think theres much point arguing with you. Next you'll be accusing me of being Hitler himself just because I'm an SNP supporter. If anyone here is a facist it's you.

231

Sheila K,

08/05/2007 21:54:26

Wini

I read your earlier comments, I am 4 foot 9 inches tall, dark but fair and have been described asbeautiful. My childern certainly are.

So thats you out of the picture. My husband who is Scottish, a serving soldier and a good man in general would be upset with what you have written today.
As a person from India who has had to fight against many injustices , I feel your comments are a disgrace if you are mixed in your parents. I have always found the people in Scotland very tolerent even if they sometimes do say the English they do not like. I think you should stay there.

Soldiers make nasty decisions they must do. This MSP was I do not believe a soldier.

Please do not upset us any more.

Before you say anything I am a British Citisen and have been here for over 13 years, my childern are born here, I believe in the Union although my husband wants independence.

Stay in bed please.

232

,

08/05/2007 21:54:31
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233

AJ fae Fife,

Watchin' Wini 08/05/2007 21:57:14

Having read the posts of the person who is called Wini, I jist got tae say, that folk like her, shouldnae be walkin' the streets. A straight jecket should be the order of the day, with a heavy dose of strong medication thrown in. Perhaps a wee bit o' electric shock treatment widnae go amiss either!!!

Yer a sick cookie hen....go and section yersel before it's too late!!!

234

,

08/05/2007 22:02:32
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235

,

08/05/2007 22:06:43
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236

James Donald,

Midlothian 08/05/2007 22:15:01

#264. Flondrix, Edinburgh -"Ukrainian/Latvian/Estonian SS legions were ferocious racists who murdered with impunity" - bit of a sweeping statement is it not? If they were what you claim, why were they allowed to settle in Britain? I actually knew a member of the Estonian SS Legion who lived in Hemel Hempstead but is now deceased. When he was 15 he was "recruited" as an Anti-Aircraft Helper and taken to the North of Germany to defend a town against Allied Air attack. Once he reached the age of 17, he was transfered to the Replacement battalion of the Estonian SS Legion in Denmark where he surrendered to the British Army a few weeks later and without havin seen any ground fighting. Ferocious racist murderer? I don't think so. People should be judged by their deeds not what they are perceived to be by the ill-informed.

237

Arthur,

08/05/2007 22:19:04

264) & 265) Have either of you bothered to read and understand the preceding responses, or have you just jumped in with both feet to sout your ill informed opinions.

238

,

08/05/2007 22:26:04
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239

James Annand,

08/05/2007 22:26:24

If his dad was a racist right wing pig, I doubt he would want to go into politics. I doubt even more that he would want to join the SNP (a left of centre group). And most of all, I really, really doubt that he would be accepted into the party if he was a racist, and then get onto the list.


Think about it.

240

Dave M,

08/05/2007 22:28:07

Disgusting smear story.

I believe from a posting yesterday that the Scotsman have an ombudsman that keeps an eye on this sort of thing.

What is he going to do about this?

241

Dave M,

08/05/2007 22:29:42

268 Flondrix

Any black sheep in your family that we can associate you with?

Maybe the Scotsman could run an article.

Just like the Sun with Kenny Gibson, victor in Cunnnghame North.

242

Flondrix,

Edinburgh 08/05/2007 22:38:11

I'm not a politician. But i haven't lied about this. Check it out. Good night.

243

Dekester,

Canada's westcoast 08/05/2007 22:40:55

A very sad and pathetic attempt to smear the MSP.

Many emigrated from the UK'S shores as a result of their families "sins".

The two stories that would be interesting, would be the two paycheques, and why did the UK goverment realy want S.S troopers to settle in the U.K.

Have a nice day!

( still amazing that the SNP won such a skewed election process, and despite the media bias).

244

James Donald,

Midlothian 08/05/2007 22:41:20

#268. Flondrix, Edinburgh - The units you referred to in your original post were Waffen-SS units raised specifically to fight against the Red Army not to carry out the Holocaust. If individual members of these units were involved then they should have been brough to trial and indeed many were. The majority, however, were soldiers fighting against what they saw as the greater enemy rightly or wrongly, the Soviet Union. Thus I see any attempt to associate British citizens with the crimes of the holocaust as a smear as much as any attempt to discredit Stefan Tymkewycz because of his father.

245

morris,

Dun Eidean Alba 08/05/2007 22:44:56

This is not a newspaper ! This is a toilet roll.

What utterly disgusting reporting this is. You are as low as the Labour Party,and thats saying something.
YOU REALLY HAVE GONE TOO FAR THIS TIME.

246

JimC,

08/05/2007 22:48:58

First I read the front page of the Sun today about another SNP MSP who had broke off his engagement, now this crap from the Scotsman. Have you hacks all got together and started looking for junk stories on every SNP MSP? This really is News of the World style reporting.

247

morris,

Dun Eidean Alba 08/05/2007 22:53:32

214

Winnie forget about floating voters.The only people who would give this the time of day are voting floaters ....................like you!

248

GD,

Glasgow 08/05/2007 23:24:45

This disgusting rag of a newspaper doesn't deserve to carry the name of our nation.
Can't they change it to something more appropriate like The Starman, The Sunman or The Conman?

249

Iain More,

Moray 08/05/2007 23:27:54

Just when I thought the Scotsman could not get anymore insulting and disgusting - I was proved wrong!

This paper is well and truly in the gutter! A mere reflection of the Union and values it claims to uphold! Rotten to the core!

I have been to Burma! I have seen how several Brit companies make thier profits! Need I say more ! This is the present day scandal!

I have also been to India! I have seen how some so called pro Unionist companies make thier profits - another essentially unreported scandal

Will Scotsman name and shame those individuals in Politics who make tidy sums from the exploitation of present day child and slave Labour!

Tony Blair today sat and supped tea with an ex terrorist! There was a very different spin put on that story!

Western so called Democracies stood by and stand by whilst genocide is commited today!

The Scotsman defends an establishment of War criminals in London!

This paper digusts me!

250

Name,

08/05/2007 23:35:05

#269 I was talking about Stefan's dad not him.

The only good nazi is a dead one.

251

James Donald,

Midlothian 08/05/2007 23:42:31

#281. Name - What makes you think he was a Nazi?

252

Cabbie,

South Queensferry 08/05/2007 23:42:45

Glad I stopped buying the news before the election. No reason to start buying it again after the headline about Stef.

253

Iain More,

Moray 08/05/2007 23:50:46

Wini!

Your views are repellent! Do you have a family without any black sheep - how lucky you are !?

My great great grand father killed Russians.
My great grand father killed Boers. He also apparently gaurded "concentration camps" in what was the Orange Free State!
My grand father killed Germans! My father served in the Royal Navy and I dont believe he hurt a fly his entire life! He was not flawless either! He was a Communist! He cheered the Day Russian tanks rolled into Wenceslas Square!
I never served in the Brit military! I cheered the day the Berlin wall fell - my father needless to say didn't! Perhaps one day I will join the SNP and stand as a local council candidate!

254

Elizabeth M,

Edinbra 08/05/2007 23:53:38

#283 - then why are you even reading this newspaper online? You must WANT to read it - just stop - go buy the SUN or whatever the best alternative for you is.

255

Elizabeth M,

Edinbra 08/05/2007 23:54:19

#285 -

256

Iain More,

Moray 09/05/2007 00:22:08

I will not be purchasing this paper to see if my online views are published!
Pull the other one!

257

Iain More,

Moray 09/05/2007 00:27:07

How many Polish people who have recently come to UK have a family secret? Are they to be similarly smeared!
What about those Germans who live here? Are they to get similar treatment?
Oh OK - only if they stand for SNP and get elected, how thick of me not to see it!

258

Iain More,

Moray 09/05/2007 00:30:18

re 265!

Take your medication - it will make you feel better at least but I guess any trace of humanity got doped out of you a long time ago! Assuming that is you had any to start with?

259

Goel,

Scotland 09/05/2007 01:17:30

wini writes:

"a true breedist does not believe in a master race, sub-human races or inferior races. They do not believe in war as a natural state or in mass murder.

Most important of all... a true breedist does not tolerate those who do, and speaks out against them; and those who, in ignorant, support them.

It is time the question was asked. Does Stefan have SS opinions or sympathies ? And would you have voted for him if he does.

There, I’ve asked it."

This is all highly entertaining stuff.

Keep it up.

G.

260

mobrown,

melbourne, australia 09/05/2007 01:38:36

#265 you are just a neanderthal. how would you know the circumstances of his father joing the SS. If you actually listen in history many of these guys were brainwashed into joining and I bet all the money in the world if you were German and living at that time you would have been in the SS again.

Grow up and get your facts right

261

Christopher Crossley,

Wuhan, Hubei, China 09/05/2007 01:55:54

A grand-daughter of wartime Japanese prime-minister General Hideki Tojo, who was hanged as a "Class A" war criminal, has just announced her intention to run as a candidate in July for election to the Japanese House of Councillors.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/mail/nn20070509a8.html

I can imagine some newspaper in Japan running a headline and a story similar to this one if she does get elected!

And, lest we forget, Alessandra Mussolini, the daughter of the Italian dictator, Benito Mussolini, was active in right-wing politics in Italy.

Are people who are blood relatives of dictators, military personnel and others, for whom one is supposed to have a healthy disdain, supposed to be made to pay for their relatives' actions? What is next? If this councillor's grandson or grand-daughter becomes a politician, what headline will be run? "Councillor's / M(S)P's great-grandfather was an SS officer!" By that time (say, two generations from now), a lot of people will say, "What was the SS?"

So long as the media want to enflame people's passions by reminding/telling them what horrors people operating under some brutal regime that happened so many years ago, it will always be a case of "the (great-)(grand-)parents' sins are visited onto the (great-)(grand-)children".

262

tapper,

japan 09/05/2007 02:51:25

speaking for myself;my own religion evangelical christianity would certainly not hold children accountable for their fathers sins.saying that a man serving in an Ukranian SS division was most likely hoping to win freedom for his country against communism.hardly a sin.Stalin and lenin caused the deaths of tens of millions through their policies.

263

outlaw,

location location location 09/05/2007 02:53:16

As Salomon Tauber said:

Peoples are not evil.
Only individuals are evil.

264

gaffer,

kamloops,b.c canada 09/05/2007 03:56:23

oh for heavens sake, sins of the father, come on get over it , it was war times, every one was guilty of doing bad things, ration book stealing from your neighbours, even today ( it fell off the back of a lorry ), crime is every where, but we do what we have to to live in different times, people who live in glass houses should throw stones, look into your own background

265

Sheikh,

09/05/2007 04:40:51

And the Point is ???????????

266

James Donald,

Midlothian 09/05/2007 05:38:29

Despite the mince printed by the EEN, here is what a Canadian Judge had to say about the Galizien Division in a report to the Commission of Inquiry on War Criminals in Canada:
While in [POW camps in] Italy these men were screened by Soviet and British missions and neither then nor subsequently has any evidence brought to light which would suggest that any of them fought against the Western Allies or engaged in crimes against humanity. Their behaviour since they came to this country has been good and they have never indicated in any way that they are infected with any trace of Nazi ideology... From the reports of the special mission set up by the War Office to screen these men it seems clear that they volunteered to fight against the Red Army from nationalistic motives which were given greater impetus by the behaviour of the Soviet authorities during their earlier occupation of the Western Ukraine after the Nazi-Soviet Pact. Although Communist propaganda has constantly attempted to depict these, like so many other refugees, as "quislings" and "war criminals" it is interesting to note that no specific charges of war crimes have been made by the Soviet or any other Government against any member of this group."
"56- The Galicia Division (14. Waffengrenadierdivision der SS [gal. #1]) should not be indicted as a group. 57- The members of Galicia Division were individually screened for security purposes before admission to Canada. 58- Charges of war crimes of Galicia Division have never been substantiated, either in 1950 when they were first preferred, or in 1984 when they were renewed, or before this Commission. 59- Further, in the absence of evidence of participation or knowledge of specific war crimes, mere membership in the Galicia Division is insufficient to justify prosecution. 60- No case can be made against members of Galicia Division for revocation of citizenship or deportation since the Canadian authorities were fully aw

267

ian citizen,

galician 09/05/2007 07:00:53

im a second generation ukrainian just like stefan & like stefan my father was in the galician regiment, i have reseached all aspects of what was done by them & can not find one case to connect them to any atrocities, also my mother who was also ukrainian was in a concentration camp during the war but survived , she was a lovely woman who was never spiteful or hated anyone, yes if people did commit crimes they should pay, may i just add with no disrespect to jewish people 6 MILLION DIED DURING WAR BUT 11 MILLION UKRAINIANS DIED WE DONT HEAR MUCH ABOUT THAT all i ask is lets move on

268

,

09/05/2007 07:19:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
269

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 09/05/2007 07:44:15

I believe my great great great great grand pappy was a deck hand on a boat that ran slaves from Africa to America.

I will hang my head in shame..........NOT!

270

Flondrix,

Edinburgh 09/05/2007 07:52:55

#300 I DONT GIVE A SH*T WHAT THE DID DURING THE WAR AS SURVIVAL WAS THE NAME OF THE GAME.

Killing innocents under some half baked racial theory is alright then. And why are you shouting?
According to ST his father was denied a British passport by the British government but under an independant administration he would receive automatic citizenship.
The question is: Why?

271

Kenny A,

09/05/2007 08:26:47

# Wini

Dont do it, you got mauled yesterday.

#301

Hello Dave, lots of people who went to sea landed up in fairly grim jobs. Decky on a slave ship, grim, not as bad as the poor buggers below decks though.

272

Kenny A,

09/05/2007 08:29:06

#300

Easy now, to early in the day to fly of like that. Wait for the return of Wini tonight and give it laldy then.

273

,

09/05/2007 08:32:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
274

Helkat,

09/05/2007 08:38:05

Jacobite

What quality has survival if it comes at the price of your soul?

275

dave from invercargill,

invercargill new zealand 09/05/2007 08:42:54

g'day my da was a sheep farmer had a couple thou up central, what does that tell you about me, nothing I sell building materials I hate sheep, by the way anyone want a mint 1963 Landy s/wb slightly poked in the axle dept.

276

,

09/05/2007 08:58:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 606376, Article id was mapped to record!
277

PJ,

Edinburgh 09/05/2007 09:57:43

#303 Wini,

Go back under the rock you crawled out from this morning!

As Kenny A pointed out, you will only get mauled again!

278

Peds,

Edinburgh 09/05/2007 10:20:39

I am not too sure that this story is irrelevant. Tymkewycz is quoted in regard to his father; "He doesn't keep too well now and has had three operations in the last year. I don't see what relevance this has to me." Apologetics for a war criminal to my mind.

If it is true that his father's Waffen SS outfit is guilty of committing war crimes, and Tymkewycz senior was an officer, surely it is only right that he should be investigated. Andrew Dismore MP has after all nanmed him as being a war criminal. Serious allegations that deserve to be examined.

Or should age and infirmity be grounds for exemption from prosecution? Ronnie Biggs, a far lesser criminal, was not exempted on these grounds.

Children should not be held to account for the crimes of their parents. But when someone seeks to shelter their father from having to face the consequences of their war crimes, the suitability of this person for high office must surely be questioned?

279

iainbhern,

09/05/2007 11:05:55

Wini your ignorance really is astounding

"In WW2 the nazis had one surprise fluke win over France "

Really ! Is that the case? So what was happening in Belgium, Holland, Norway, Poland, Czchekoslovakia, Hungary, to name just some of the countries the Nazis rolled over. I suppose they were just flukey wins too.

280

Steve98,

Tell me what to do. 09/05/2007 11:07:12

I have a friend who has a Polish name. He is originally from the borders. Why a Polish name? His father was 17 when Germany invaded Poland. He had the option of joining up and fighting with the German army, or some other option - not sure precisely what it was. He joined up. Then captured by the Americans, brought to a POW camp near Jedburgh.

He then joined the Polish brigade, and fought again, this time on the Allied side.

A girl he had met in Jedburgh drew him back there after the war and they got married. His son is now my friend.

Should I disown him? Clipe on him about something? Or what?

How stupid is this EEN article? How shockingly dreadful it ever saw print. Do unions not exist in newspapers any more? Can we make sure that some heads roll?

PS What about the 'Nazis' who stayed on in Jed after the war? Should we hound them too?

281

Arthur,

09/05/2007 11:20:26

Wini, Give up will you and go and get help.
Your utterings display paranoid, psychotic, schizophrenic tendencies.
I am of a similar age, was born in Edinburgh, now live in England, and my late father fought in the Signals Corp in the 8th Army at Tobruk, Alamain, Monte Casino.
Like most of his generation who served and survived
he spoke little of his war experience, but of the three
times in the 53 years I knew him, when he did, he had respect for his opponent, whom he recognised as human, German, professional, but not Nazi.
This was a view held by most of the allied command
of the Afrika Corp, and Rommel in particular.
So you have met two people whom because of their perceived attitude toward you, you label nazi, and germanic. As a result you coin this phrase breedist
to disguise the fact that it is actually as racist as the nazi position. That is sad and wrong headed please
seek help to alter your perceptions, and remove that
chip from your shoulder.
You are of course right in that people with Nazi attitudes still exist, but it is not based on race or as you put it breed, it is, as in your case based on ignorance and the fear ignorance breeds.
Who is this "we" you speak of, how many other poor deluded souls are there. should the rest of us be concerned, that is those of us who have never come across this laughable term breedist.
What a waste of time watching BB to detect nazis,
these wee lassies were there as eye candy for simple minded males, they were not there for their intellect. They were silly, ignorant, spiteful little bitches, but not nazis, they are so thick they don't know what it means. They got their just deserts,
and Shilpa Shetti was more than a match for them.
How skewed your view is, where exactly was this overt support for them in the media, they were baying for blood, as I recall.
You further display your ignorance of history by claiming the naz

282

Steve98,

The ONLY ones worth contacting 09/05/2007 11:21:14

Let them hear what you think of 1. Brian Ferguson 2 the Editor of the EEN

The Board of Johnston Press has made a clear commitment to operating all of the Group's business activities to the highest standards of business ethics and integrity. These principles are not only contained in the Group's Corporate Social Responsibility Statement but it is also policy to include them in employment contracts.

The code of ethics specifically requires adherence to all legal requirements. It has a clear policy and procedure for addressing issues such as bribery, corruption, conflicts of interest, espionage and the giving and receiving of gifts. The Group opposes all forms of oppression and is a supporter of all human rights.

The Group’s entire business is in Europe, the vast majority being in the UK and Republic of Ireland.

An acceptable use policy has been developed for all of the company's assets including but not restricted to computer equipment, email facilities and use of the Internet. This policy is required to be signed by every employee and is designed to protect both the employee and employer.

The Group has the absolute objective of always acting as a fair and reasonable employer. We also acknowledge, and are keenly aware of, our responsibilities to the many communities we serve; our readers, customers, suppliers, shareholders, and to the environment.

Board Responsibility
The Board has delegated the day to day responsibility for all matters related to Corporate Social Responsibility and social issues to the Executive Directors. They are assisted by the Company Secretary who is generally the first point of contact for any issues of this nature.

T J Bowdler, CBE, BSc, MBA
Chief Executive Officer (59)
Joined the Board in 1994. Former Managing Director of Cape Architectural & Building Products Ltd, a division of Cape plc. Non-Executive Director of The Miller Group Ltd and The Press Association Ltd. Chairman of th

283

Adamski,

Edinburgh 09/05/2007 11:30:12

What difference does it make what his Dad did.
Remember, a lot of the guys in Eastern Europe who joined the SS did so spcifically because it was the only way to fight soviet oppression so fair play to them.
They most definitely did not know what you know now.
And remember, history is written by the victors.
If i'd been in their shoes i'd have done the same thing!.

284

Goel,

Scotland 09/05/2007 11:45:08

Well said, Arthur (no 315).

Wini writes:

"It is time the Germanic nazi breed were recognised for what they are... the pit bull terriers of the human species, who must be restrained and guarded against through out the world."

Sounds exactly like the arguments put forward by the apologists for the disaster in Iraq: that Muslims are - by their very nature - violent and irresponsible, and need to be 'restrained' from controlling their own oil resources.

No doubt - as the issue of Scotland's oil and gas reserves heats up - the same arguments will be put about regarding the Scots generally: that we cannot be trusted to run our own oil industry - and that we are a 'real threat to the monarchy'.

Speaking for myself, I am no Nazi - but I am proud to consider myself a threat to the monarchy.

Keep the irrational, blind and arrogant bigotry coming, Wini - still enjoying it immensely.

G.

285

Arthur,

09/05/2007 11:45:41

315 Contd "Fluke" win They took over Austria before the war by concensus, the hinterland, holland and poland, by blitzkreig which is where britain came into the fray only to be kicked out of france by your one fluke Nazis.
As to this pointless unanswered question, What business is it of yours, this man has joined a non nazi
political party, he has gone through their selection process befor standing for election, he has made public speeches, been interviewed on tv and radio and written
articles, if there was any unacceptable attitudes they would have shown themselves by now.
If you have been reading other responses you will
see the defence of the unit his father fought in, which at the very least suggests they weren't nazis
This man should not under any circumstances be castigated in any way for the actions of his parents
leave it, stop now before you are sued for libel.
I fully expect of course that you have chosen to ignore those articles which destroy your facile arguements as you wish to continue living on your own nazi bitter twisted little world.

286

Arthur,

09/05/2007 12:31:29

304) After you have been for your therapy, I hope.

287

Arthur,

Stalagluft UK 09/05/2007 13:07:45

Der obengrupperfurher wini resplendent in her jackboots an jodpurs has graciously granted me permission to continue posting, but I fully expect to be horsewhipped when she reads what I say.
Every cloud has it's silver lining and for anti nationalists this article and the ensuing debate means that nationalists have taken their eye of the ball while we sort out the bigots, ignoramouses. and sad extremists who have posted their rubbish on here, in which case was it written for that very obtuse purpose and to flush out the idiots. Unless they start their nonsense again let's get back to the business we have allowed ourself to be distracted from and ignore this unscottish disgrace named wini. If she has any Scottish in her she is a disgrace to the most generous, gregarious, hospitible, and fair minded nation on earth. But maybr she is just a dangerous troll.

288

watcher,

East Lothian 09/05/2007 14:58:11

I see i have had my comments removed. Must have been hurtful to the SNP cause.

289

Roman Senkus,

Toronto, Canada 09/05/2007 17:32:16

Note that the article states correctly that the Galizien division was created in 1943, but then says
"Galizien units ... were also said to have played a major part in a 1941 massacre of 7000 Jews." Perhaps the author could explain how this was possible two years before the division's creation.

290

Kenny A,

09/05/2007 17:46:54

#323 Kenny here

Could be units were not formed into divisions untill that time.

291

Pilrig,

Livingston 09/05/2007 19:20:26

Wini #304 don't bother, you've made a 'hosses ass' of yourself.
'breedist' - Jesus H Christ !

292

Pilrig,

Livingston 09/05/2007 19:22:11

watcher #322 Away and find yer faither and ask him if he ever was a bad lad.

293

Flondrix,

Edinburgh 09/05/2007 19:22:17

#307
An odd analogy to say the least. All ss divisions were volunteers. To happily engage in the slaughter of innocents doesn't constitute unwilling collaboration. The so called "ivan the terrible" was hardly coerced into his crimes.
Ah yes, the beastly English. Wondered how long it would be before they came along.
ps. Stop shouting. Either learn about this period of Europe's history or go back to sleep.

294

KMC1,

Edinburgh 09/05/2007 20:26:58

Wasn't the current Pope in the Hitler Youth? Not only can we not involve ourselves in his fathers past, but it is a sad state of affairs when we judge others in a past that wasn't even theres to begin with.

Why don't we start looking to the future of Scotland like Stefan clearly is and stop delving into the past.

295

James Donald,

Midlothian 09/05/2007 22:14:07

#327. Flondrix, Edinburgh - "All ss divisions were volunteers" - Not all were volunteers, there were many thousands of conscripts in the Waffen-SS. "Ivan the Terrible" was a Trawniki Guard not in the Waffen-SS, so you seem to be suffering a little confusion about this period of history.........zzzzzzz

296

Kenny A,

09/05/2007 23:11:27

Veher is Vinmi

Jobpurs anbd jackboots a bit tuhit


Forgive me folks it was deliberate.

297

Royster,

10/05/2007 07:18:43

#100. All out of date now. No difference in 'Y' chromosome distribution between English and Scotsmen - we're all British. Scotland and England were just petty kingdomes of yesteryear.

298

In my opinion...,

30/08/2008 16:13:01
Ridiculous journalism as usual from EEN.

I have no respect for Tymkewycz since he reneged on his pre-election opposition to selling-off Meadowbank for housing.

But I feel for him on this issue.

 

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