Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

Endinburgh Council
 
 
Monday, 2nd November 2009 Change Date Latest Issue

Trams chief says sorry for city centre gridlock

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 02 October 2008
TRAM chiefs have apologised for the "disastrous" diversions which brought the city centre to a standstill, as they prepare to go back to the drawing board to keep Edinburgh moving.
The first day of diversions around Princes Street caused gridlock yesterday as work to move utilities under The Mound junction saw traffic banned between Frederick Street and Hanover Street.

Drivers and bus passengers faced delays of up to an hour as the diversions, coupled with a number of traffic light failures, resulted in chaos.

Now, following crisis talks between the city council, tram firm TIE and Lothian Buses, buses were due to be allowed back on to Princes Street westbound from this morning.

Other emergency changes include additional signs to help drivers understand the new arrangements, more traffic wardens on duty at rush hour, additional road markings and new unloading and waiting restrictions to be placed on both sides of George Street between Frederick Street and Hanover Street.

A further meeting between police, council, bus and TIE representatives will take place this afternoon to address any further difficulties experienced by motorists during this morning's rush hour.

Police Sergeant Caroline McKay said: "The plans are pretty fluid at the moment – if they are not working they will be tweaked." She added that some drivers were not paying attention to the new diversions this morning .

The Evening News understands that buses may be allowed back eastbound if the same level of disruption continues today.

Driving groups and opposition politicians today demanded the mess was sorted out immediately, especially given the works are meant to last until April.

Willie Gallagher, executive chairman of TIE, said: "I would like to apologise for the delays to both bus passengers and drivers today as a result of the introduction of the temporary traffic management measures to undertake the utility works around The Mound.

"Despite careful modelling and planning, it was clear by the morning rush hour that the temporary traffic measures were not fully working.

"We would ask all bus passengers and drivers to allow a bit more time in making their normal journeys, and we will continue to monitor the improvements and changes over the next few days."

It is unclear why The Mound works were started in the middle of the week when previous major tram works, including Shandwick Place and Haymarket, were given "soft" launches at weekends to allow for any teething problems to be ironed out.

Pedestrians trying to get across George Street were left with no crossings after traffic lights put in to replace the zebra crossings failed, but these lights are expected to be working by early evening today.

Colin Barclay, 40, a Big Issue seller whose pitch is on the corner of George Street and Hanover Street said there had been a number of near misses.

He said: "I am astounded that nobody has been hurt yet on these crossings. It is just an accident waiting to happen and has been for weeks.

"People are using them like they still think they are zebra crossings, and there have been a few people getting abuse from van drivers for walking in front of them."

The congestion problems around the city centre have been exacerbated by ongoing tram works at Haymarket, as well as the closure of Canongate for resurfacing work.

Bruce Young, Lothian and Borders co-ordinator of the Association of British Drivers, said: "It is unacceptable that they can't get this sort of thing right from the start.

"But I believe that the long-term intention was to close The Mound to all traffic, so this is perhaps a sign of things to come.

"We are going to see them try and force people on to public transport by re-engineering the roads, so this is only the start of a deliberate policy to try and force a change in behaviour."

And politicians also rounded on tram bosses.

SNP Lothians MSP Shirley-Anne Somerville said today: "I am very disappointed that, just like on Leith Walk, TIE has not been able to make a good job of tram works on our city's main shopping street. The first day has proven to be completely disastrous for TIE and they will really need to work fast to sort this mess out as this is just not acceptable."

Councillor Andrew Burns, the city's Labour leader, said: "I know that some problems are to be expected, but the scale of what happened yesterday morning strongly suggests to me that the changes just have not been explained, publicised or communicated effectively."

Bus services passing through the busy Mound junction are currently being diverted via George Street or Market Street and Waverley Bridge. General traffic is being redirected via Market Street, Waverley Bridge, St David Street and then George Street or Queen Street.

The diversions will last until December, when the Christmas roadworks embargo starts, but will return in January when the rest of Princes Street closes to traffic for six months for tram track laying work.

Iain Coupar, marketing director for Lothian Buses, said: "We experienced delays of up to an hour on some services. The traffic lights sequence was not working well, and we had to cope with the sheer volume of traffic being funnelled on to George Street.

"On Princes Street it is buses only, but on George Street there are cars and lorries as well. So while the delays have been unacceptable, it is the first day, so hopefully we can a see a speedy resolution to this."

Utilities work on Walk to last until Christmas
WORK to move underground pipes on a busy stretch of Leith Walk for the city's tram project will last until Christmas.

The utilities diversion project at the bottom of Leith Walk was expected to be completed by June, then September, but tram bosses have today admitted the work has overrun again.

Manderston Street will be reopened within the next two weeks but other holes on Leith Walk between Stead's Place and Kirk Street will remain until December.

And the news comes as traders and residents face the start of preparation work to lay the tram tracks.

It is understood that problems with telecoms and gas sub-contractors are partly to blame for the hold-ups, but tram firm TIE today put the delay down to "operational challenges".

Traders today hit out at the level of disruption and poor information from TIE.

The overall programme for the tram line has not been affected by the latest delays.

Alan Rudland, vice-chairman of the Leith Walk and Constitution Street Traders Association, said: "It is crazy. I just don't see how they can possibly integrate both works in such a tight space – the logistics just don't add up.

"I am not surprised about the delays, though. The biggest problem for us and our members is that we are trying to keep people informed about these chances and the goalposts keep moving."

A spokesman for TIE said: "The utilities work continues to be on programme. In Leith Walk, TIE and Carillion have deployed additional resources and increased working hours to address the technical issues, and the operational challenges that continue to arise given the complexity of Leith Walk utilities.

"TIE appreciates the patience and co-operation of Leith Walk traders and residents during this period."

Page 1 of 1

 
1

Statsman,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 11:30:11
As usual, utter incompetence by TIE and the only people that pay the price are the citizens and businesses. TIE carry on as usual.
2

,

02/10/2008 11:37:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 11:40:12
Andrew Burns has got some nerve commenting on this nightmare scheme he had a hand in creating, but at least that's better than the shameful silence coming from the other 'Save Our Tram' parties.

Iain Whyte, Jenny Dawe, Margo Macdonald, are you there?

TIE have had months to plan this, and yet emergency measures have to be brought in within hours. Thank goodness Edinburgh's Transport leader is on their board, otherwise they might have to be worried about being held 'accountable'.

Picardy Place still to come, folks!
4

allknowing,

02/10/2008 11:41:12
"have not been explained, publicised or communicated effectively.""

So nothing new here then.

5

Big bob 79,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 11:45:47
Transport in the city centre is a disater, but where else do people think all these buses can go?
The only solution I can see is if the volume of buses using this diversion can be cut back, perhapse by reducing frequencies on some routes?
I fear these ever growing delays will drive more and more people away from public transport.....

6

john3,

02/10/2008 11:50:35
#5 idiotic.
7

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 11:53:59
The EEN campaigned against the congestion charge and the Traffic Management Scheme. It's time for them to swallow their pride, admit they were wrong and mount a campaign against these trams now. It can still be stopped - they can call a referendum if they want.

The Government will be glad to have the money to divert to other projects - Edinburgh can call for a big lump sum too. Get started on the light rail scheme Edinburgh and the surrounding area needs - the hovercraft too.

The lie that 'it will all be worth it in the end' is just that. Any councillors fancy making a name for themselves and taking a stand on this one? Kate MacKenzie can't be the only sensible one amongst you surely?
8

Big bob 79,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 11:55:59
#6 very constructive,
Just pointed out that its very common place to see two sometimes three buses back to back all on the same route sitting in the same jam, receducing the frequency may then easy the traffic wow's, LB have already been allow route managers turn most buses early to try and get them back on time, can this not be extended?
9

,

02/10/2008 12:00:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

allknowing,

02/10/2008 12:06:33
5/7/9 totally agree.

Biggest farce to ever hit edinburgh. If they want mass takeup of public transport, then they need to start from scratch.
1/Re organise all routes, so we have routes north to south, east to west and orbital in both directions. Not all buses need to go via princes st.
2/With money saved from trams, replace every single bus with new, low emmision vechiles, with all mod cons etc.
3/Transferable day tickets, for all buses, on all routes, and also trains etc.
4/Return the roads to ALL users, un block and undo all the crazy restrictions placed on all of us over the last 15 years.
5/Make it cheap, very cheap, but also reliable.

Do the above, and many problems will be solved. Trams will do nothing but get in the way and breakdown.
11

LUVMACITY,

IN THE LOBBY 02/10/2008 12:08:02
Would it not be sensible to allow traffic from Hanover Street to cross Princes Street on to Speakers Corner, around the rear of the Royal Scottish Academy & up the Mound thus avoiding the roadworks completely?
12

allknowing,

02/10/2008 12:08:33
#10

We car drivers have stopped coming into the city centre, and whats happened. Princes St is a dump becuase no-one visits there. It is a very sad state, espcially compared to 10 years ago!!

Cars dont create congestion. Remind me how free the traffic flows when buses are on strike, and the greenways are lifted. Its total bliss.
13

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 12:08:43
#10 its been a few years since we let cars on Princess Street and after we got ride of them look how clogged it is with even more buses!....
East bound queues on Princess Street are bus only so getting rid of cars will in NO way reduce the wait...
14

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 12:08:45
#10 its been a few years since we let cars on Princess Street and after we got ride of them look how clogged it is with even more buses!....
East bound queues on Princess Street are bus only so getting rid of cars will in NO way reduce the wait...
15

Top Floor,

02/10/2008 12:12:04


No comment from the Council's Chair of Transport Cllr Phil Wheeler ... Why not ?
16

Top Floor,

02/10/2008 12:12:56
#7 Howard, you are barking if you think a referendum can still be called for trams.
17

James (1),

02/10/2008 12:14:30
Sorry but was this not planned? The tram line was not just forced onto us. We wanted it. They meticulously planned for the least disruption and that is what we got.
Can you imagine if this had not been planned?
We would have had chaos! What? What do you mean we did have chaos?
Have they been lying to us? Is it that the majority of people don't want the tram line?
I cannot believe this!
Once more the minority get their way and the tail wags the dog.
18

James (1),

02/10/2008 12:16:21
#14+ 15 It is Princes Street. (a single male prince not a female princess).
19

allknowing,

02/10/2008 12:21:08
#18 i'll answer you, but i am still waiting for my answer.

The city bypass gets congested in two main locations.
1/Sherrifhall roundabout, due to bad planning and lack of foresight, plus the introduction of traffic lights, this is whats causes congestion here. Want proof, several weeks back, throughout the roadworks, the lights went down for 3-4 days, result, dramatic reduction in queues and congestion.
2/ Traffic heading west gets congested when hitting the gogarburn roundabout. Again, exact same problems. Too many roads trying to converge onto one small roundabout. Coupled with bad light timings, this is what causes tailbacks.

So, you tell me, with NO cars on Prnces St, why is it like a bus park every morning and pm? Why when the buses are on strike, congestion drops right down to almost nothing. Still the same number of cars, in fact probally more, but no congestion.

Congestion is caused by obstructions, be it road works, stopped buses, greenways, crazy council restrictions and the like.
20

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 12:21:26
#18 so I struggle with the bus I nev use the bypass at rush hour, however I can comment on bus congestion waverly steps rush hour....
Dozens of buses trying to use two stops, the buses not only block each other in but block the road due to the lenght of the buses this causes tottaly grid lock at the Eastend and this is without any roadworks, this is simple too many buses trying to use the same space..

21

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 12:23:32
#17

Why not? It wouldn't be binding, but if they really needed a mandate (I don't think they do, but they might think so) that would give them it. We'll lose millions by cancelling the trams now, with only some new pipes to show for it, but at least we won't have a tram station at Picardy Place, narrower pavements on Princes Street, and one lane each way on Leith Walk!

#11

Agreed. There are so many options when it comes to improving Edinburgh's transport infrastructure. What a shame the council/government only ever seriously considered a fatally flawed one.
22

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 12:25:12
#26

Hardly. A service still needs to be offered to the 90%+ of people who don't live on the tram line. Do you think all the buses will just shuttle people from those areas to the line and then turn round? There will be a few less buses fighting for a lot less space.
23

,

02/10/2008 12:25:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

Grumpy,

02/10/2008 12:28:18
The congestion was entirely predictable. Buses had Princes St al to themselves, george St was already congested with cars. And Queen St was in turmoil because of the roadworks on Picardy PLace.

Answer: (1) - Fix Picardy Place (2) ban cars from George St and make that the new Princes St - i.e. buses only. (3) Close Princes St and turn it into a funfair. Ooops - sorry, forgot it already was one.
25

Way Out West,

02/10/2008 12:29:23
This is all part of a long-term plan, to screw up as many bus services as possible during the tram construction period.

Result - reliability suffers, passenger numbers drop, routes get cut.

By the time the trams start in 2011, there will be no need to axe nineteen services - it will have already been done.
26

,

02/10/2008 12:30:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
27

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 12:30:19
#29

I think your comment goes a long way to explaining why. You have no idea if what you are suggesting is true so I suggest you give it a rest. People will be grieving over this.
28

Way Out West,

02/10/2008 12:31:36
25 - who would run a bus down the bypass anyway? That route is for cars not buses.
29

Way Out West,

02/10/2008 12:33:02
34

"People would have to get used to changing over to the tram."

Yes and people will have to get used to routes being cut left, right and centre in the run-up to the trams opening.
30

Some guy,

02/10/2008 12:33:25
For once i agree with some of allknowings comments. A re-organisation of the bus routes and a complete rethink on the location and number of bus stops is required. I know it's been said loads of times before but look at buchanan street in glasgow.

1. Create a large underground car park at one end of princes street (e.g. Buchanan Galleries) and re-arrange the routes to give priority to traffic going there keeping the car users happy.
2. Either pedestrianise princes street or re-route some bus routes to George Street at the same as giving the buses 2 stops they can stop at along the length of the street instead of the daft 10-20 seconds between each stop as it is now.
3. Get approval for the RIE spur of the Tram and have this link up with the two new main bus stops at either end of Princes St/George St. and you then have Tram access from North, South and West. Buses from other areas of the City and a main route into a large car park for the out of towners.
31

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 12:34:16
#34

I agree they will to some extent. All the 22s will be gone for a start. But enough to make for a net reduction in buses factoring in the loss of bus lanes and overall road space? No chance.
32

Incandescent,

02/10/2008 12:38:25
#10 G-tone & #29 Jenny

Welcome back you two. Interesting that, yet again, you were both absent over the same period. Were you perhaps on a short break together? Or, more likely, you are one and the same? Oops...BUSTED!
33

malcyh,

edinburgh 02/10/2008 12:39:56
To help ease congestion at the East End in rush hour, perhaps the Police could enforce the parking regulations outside the Balmoral Hotel and the double parking that also happens?
34

Disgruntled Black cab customer,

02/10/2008 12:41:46
TRAMS the biggest talking point since time began.

The vast majority against them, however no-one seems to want to do anything to stop them.
35

malcyh,

02/10/2008 12:42:54
G29 The Police report the traffic light was at green and the pedestrian then set off to cross the street. I agrre it still is a tradgedy.
36

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 02/10/2008 12:47:02
Given that only 550 buses enter the city centre each morning peak hour (carrying 20,000 passengers) compared to 20,000 cars (carrying 22,000 people), it is not rocket science to work out who are the REAL congestion causers.
But then the motorist blames EVERYONE/THING but themselves !
37

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 12:47:53
# 28 where have you been the last 3 years? 19 routes to go some of them becoming "tram feader services" NOTHING will be allowed to run along side the route of the trams to ensure people use them, come 2012 many journeys that cross PRINCES STREET will become Bus Tram Bus this way the GOV can gaurentee people use the tram, after all TIE stated 80% of expected tram users will come from exitsing services
38

Incandescent,

02/10/2008 12:51:47
#44 Impressive, if made-up, figures.
39

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 12:56:02
44# you can half the 20,000 passengers carried right away as in the council survery they count "journeys made" not "people carried" and most people have to use more than one bus to get to their destination, so really far less people are using the bus. The council gloss over this fact hoping that no one spots these inflated figures, the real figures of actual people using the bus is much lower.

40

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 12:56:10
#45

I agree with most of that. I will believe the final TIE concoction when I see it, however.

Where have I been? I have been here the whole time, moaning about the trams (but not doing anything about it of course).
41

Bob 2,

02/10/2008 13:01:07
Now, following crisis talks between the city council, tram firm TIE and Lothian Buses, buses were due to be allowed back on to Princes Street westbound from this morning.


and FIRST ?
42

Bob 2,

02/10/2008 13:02:52
15 Big bob 79,02/10/2008 12:08:45
#10 its been a few years since we let cars on Princess Street and after we got ride of them look how clogged it is with even more buses!....
East bound queues on Princess Street are bus only so getting rid of cars will in NO way reduce the wait...

comment 15 Big bob 79 where is Princess Street?
43

jambali,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 13:03:47
Glasgow bans all roadworks from the central area for xmas & the new year - forward thinking/planning from a cooncil - it'll never catch on!

Seriously though - Edinburgh has gone beyond incompetance, it's now at the stage where peoples civil liberties are being deliberately infringed for political reasons, not expediency. Someone should take legal action!
44

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

02/10/2008 13:04:18
#18 - in answer to your question, buses & taxis create the congestion on the bypass because vehicles are forced to use this as they are not allowed to travel freely in the city. I thought this point would have been glaringly obvious to even a half wit, but apparently you need it spelled out.
45

Hmm ...,

02/10/2008 13:05:46
... Road raga (44) said cars were responsible for congestion. So just how is that compatible with bus strikes, when as Allknowing (13) reminded us, when there are no buses, Greenways are cancelled and car traffic increases, traffic flows freely?

I think we can blame David Begg and his imitators for Edinburgh's present congestion.
46

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 02/10/2008 13:05:55
Cars are to blame for the mess yesterday . Tram chiefs should withdraw their apology .
47

Incandescent,

02/10/2008 13:09:10
#53

G-Tone's persona is actually only a quarter-wit. However, when combined with his other persona, Jenny, he becomes a half-wit. If he were to join forces with HArrington and Raga, he may someday become whole. But I doubt it.
48

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 13:09:21
#55

LOL! Good windup.
49

Hmm ...,

02/10/2008 13:13:44
... sorry, Voice (55) - only a relatively few cars were caught up in the jams - they have the advantage of being able to re-route in such conditions. Buses are committed to their route - just think how trams will cope with such emergencies - they can't even come off their rails!

Let's remember the reason that there are trams in the first place was that the rails made it easier for the horses to pull heavier loads on the "buses" they pulled. Cables then electricity replaced the horses but the rails remained.
50

scotsol,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 13:16:41
I love seeing car drivers thoroughly inconvenienced, and I hope to see more of it in the future when congetion charging is introduced. High time we banned cars altogether in the city centre. Then the buses and taxis wouldn't be greatly inconvenienced by these minor and temporary road closures.
51

Padraig,

02/10/2008 13:22:38
Gorgie (10) said "Instead of cutting back on buses, which so many folk rely on, why don't the selfish, obnoxious car drivers stop coming into the city centre? Reducing cars will reduce congestion!!"

Car drivers, whether or not obnoxious, HAVE stopped coming into the city centre - they have choice of where to go! Not a lot of cars stuck in this bus-jam!

That's why the shops' trade was suffering even before the present recession.

And strange isn't it that the more Edinburgh discouraged cars, the busier the City Bypass became! Never was a route better named!
52

MrCalm,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 13:25:49
Come on - please get things under perspective. Yes it has been chaos and yes planning could and should have been better but what alternatives are there? Edinburgh city has always been concentrated on Princes Street and its supporting roadways. For any major development you have to put up with the pain (although hopefully not that of the extent felt yesterday). Edinburgh planners should have resolved our public transport needs in the 80s and 90s when other big cities took the plunge.
53

NYC Hibee,

edinburgh 02/10/2008 13:25:51
its buses pulling out onto junctions with no means of exit that cause a lot of hold ups. Is there a law that allows them to sit on boxed junctions?
Traffic a nightmare yesterday. Think I'll buy a permit and leave my car at home - only the council wants to charge extra for my car sitting there oh, and the buses are running an hour late! Wonderful!
54

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 13:27:36
Ooops

Great news 26 users

East Lothian Council is joining in , with guess what Road Works.

Yes at the tranent end of the 26 route, ELC is going ahead with road resurfacing in tranent, with temporary traffic lights.

Even better, if true, nothing on the Edinburgh City Council Website:-

Supposedly to allow the removal of the Portobello/ Seafield roundabout, Part of the junction will be closed off, with traffic diverted via the Industrial estate

Things can't get any better can they ?

26 Users get your sleeping bags out.

Has anyone else heard this story?
55

WackAttack,

Leith 02/10/2008 13:27:47
It's shambles... Plus all the number 25 buses seem to have disappeared from the bottom of Leith Walk this week.

Are they taking a different route?
56

SS,

02/10/2008 13:28:09
Edinburgh city centre will be like a ghost town this Chrstmas - with the credit crunch, fuel bills and all that jazz. This congestion will make it so so so much worse and even fewer people will make the trip in. probably be job losses, closures etc. etc. If Loyds axes lots of HBOS jobs it'll be even worse. Edinburgh is in for a rough ride for the next 12 months
57

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 13:28:26
#59

'Minor and temporary'

Do you work for TIE, or is this Iain Whyte finally ending his self-imposed silence on the subject?
58

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 13:30:51
#60 following on to your comments, off subject but as you may know Sheifhall has been altered with extra lanes added, watch this space as I have been told we may see some BUS LANES added to it!...

So not even the Bypass is safe!
59

Tomsk,

02/10/2008 13:32:28
#59

Like all puritans, the only joy you get from life is the joy you feel at other people's suffering.
60

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 13:32:28
25 Big bob 79,02/10/2008 12:21:26
#18 so I struggle with the bus I nev use the bypass at rush hour, however I can comment on bus congestion waverly steps rush hour....

Please note a lot of the congestion at Waverley Steps is caused by Cars PARKED permanently on the Yellow Lines at the Balmoral (or what ever its called now).

Never seen a Traffic Warden yet.

But if your parked on a side street, causing no congestion, your ticketed.!!!
61

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 13:36:55
53 The Geniune Mario Antionette,02/10/2008 13:04:18
#18 - in answer to your question, buses & taxis create the congestion on the bypass because vehicles are forced to use this as they are not allowed to travel freely in the city. I thought this point would have been glaringly obvious to even a half wit, but apparently you need it spelled out

Now why is it called the BYPASS, so people can BYPASS the city.

Imagine if the bypass was not there, Edinburgh City streets could not cope with this volume of cars (with or without bus lanes)

Its the sheer volume of cars on the bypass that cause the congestion.

Which isn't helped when SLOW MOVING tractors are allowed to trundle along at 10 mph, causing havoc!!!
62

Casey Beer,

02/10/2008 13:38:23
#22 James (1) -a single male prince not a female princess.

It is plural male prince, not single as that would be Prince Street.
63

Casey Beer,

02/10/2008 13:38:30
#22 James (1) -a single male prince not a female princess.

It is plural male prince, not single as that would be Prince Street.
64

Heather B,

Anstruther 02/10/2008 13:38:40
Would bring a tear to a glass eye.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdJdoJKHyho
65

Casey Beer,

02/10/2008 13:38:49
#72/73. So good, I said it twice. Sorry.
66

Son of Gramsci,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 13:41:08
Ride a bike, be happy.

67

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 13:43:42
#70 please take time to watch what happens, its got nothing to do with the cars at the hotel. Its simple too many buses and not enough space, the stops are so close and so heavily server that the buses loading and waiting to pull into the first stop block the buses pulling away from the second, this causes the delay. So much so that a driver from a 3 got out his cab and battered the door of an X48 to give the fellow driver some choice words.

68

Howard Moon,

02/10/2008 13:46:27
#76

Until they remove the cycle lanes to make way for the good old trams, eh?
69

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 13:52:15
77 Big Bob 79

yip the stops are too close,

But have walked past many a lunch time.

With Cars parked right along the Front of the Hotel to Waverley Step.

Result Buses going west end up sitting in the outside lane blocking other buses from getting to the next stop and beyond

Its a bit of both me thinks

But take the cars away from the Hotel and you'll find that most of the problems would be solved.
70

The Judge,

02/10/2008 13:56:49
5 years to go!

I've been predicting this for months now, I even pointed out as late as Friday that 2 buses cannot pass each other on Market St.

How much are we paying people like Willie Gallagher?

If he had any decency he'd tender his resignation today, because it's becoming very clear he is NOT up to the job.

As someone has already posted, where is The EEN's pet councillor Mr Wheeler? Nothing to say or too embarrassed to say anything at all?

Councillor Andrew Burns, the city's Labour leader, said: "I know that some problems are to be expected, but the scale of what happened yesterday morning strongly suggests to me that the changes just have not been explained, publicised or communicated effectively."

You voted for it Andrew, I can't see how you can complain now, you and the rest of New Labour Scotland forced the tramLINE on us nobody else.
71

MasterXX,

02/10/2008 14:00:38
It is terrible what is happening to our city centre, why cant they just concentrate on one area at a time instead of causing gridlock through the entire city, in a word, pathetic!
72

,

02/10/2008 14:03:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
73

,

02/10/2008 14:04:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
74

Cod,

Leith 02/10/2008 14:05:06
Walk!! Walk!! Walk!! You'll all be very fit in 3 years time :-) As fit as the Polsih girls are now...
75

,

02/10/2008 14:07:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
76

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 14:07:53
Foo its quicker by push bike

11 miles in under 45mins, quicker than the bus and the car.

Roadworks do happen , buses normally cope, but almost every road in edinburgh is being dug up at the moment

Worst one is Craigentinny, Temp Traffic lights, no roadworks.

The workmen, switch them off when they please.
77

likkitysplit,

ludicrous 02/10/2008 14:12:51
#10 "Cars dont create congestion. Remind me how free the traffic flows when buses are on strike, and the greenways are lifted. Its total bliss."

Its true, it is very noticable, but if you remove buses permanently and all the current bus users get themselves a car then there would be much worse congestion. Suddenly your argument appears to be utter nonsense!
Unless of course you assume the bus-less commuter would revert to walking or better still, staying at home just so as not get in your way.
78

Man On Corstorphine Omnibus,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 14:14:36
"Wullie Gallagher"? Sounds like someone playing inside-left for Celtic during the 1930's. But then trams ARE a 1930's concept are they not?

79

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 14:17:12
87 Like wise

Its nearly the school holidays, less cars on the road

Remind us how free the traffic flows when the schools are on holiday.


The bus strikes were only for a day or 2.

It would have been interesting if they had been out for weeks, and thousands of extra cars took to the roads?
80

Pond Hall,

02/10/2008 14:18:39
87 yip the bypass flows freely every morning and evening at the peak times.

and not a bus is sight on the bypass

now what can be causing the problem?
81

Incandescent,

02/10/2008 14:25:03
#90 Try reading the thread for several succinct, correct answers to your embarrassing rhetorical question.
82

GMann,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 14:32:36
"TIE appreciates the patience and co-operation of Leith Walk traders and residents during this period."
Like we have a choice. We don't appreciate or want to co-operate during this period but have a lame duck council who do nothing to help.
Perhaps the council have given up and don't want re-elected. Also I agree with who ever said Burns had a cheek he was in at the start of the whole thing.
83

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 02/10/2008 14:37:08

The tramworks are killing Leith Walk - it looks like Iraq
84

ejstubbs,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 14:50:53
"Pedestrians trying to get across George Street were left with no crossings after traffic lights put in to replace the zebra crossings failed, but these lights are expected to be working by early evening today."

The problem with the pedestrian crossings at the George Street/Hanover Street and George Street/Frederick Street junctions has been ongoing since some westbound services were diverted along George Sreet a few weeks ago. The zebra crossings were removed and pedestrian lights were installed, but they were not switched on until this week. Why not?
85

Solo Lobo,

02/10/2008 14:55:53
In a vain attempt to assist traffic flow, George Street now has double yellow lines on both sides to prevent parking, and loading and unloading between 07.00 and 19.00 hours is prohibited. No prior warning was given before this "patch" was applied so this also means no consultation with businesses, residents or other interested parties. Strangely centre street parking still remains, no doubt so that revenue from motorists will not be lost.

I would have thought that new Traffic Regulation Orders would be required before such a major change was implemented but obviously not in this case.

This will have a knock on effect on businesses in George Street who are now unable to receive goods or to load vehicles for customer deliveries. As if things for retailers were not bad enough. Perhaps the much vaunted rates rebate will kick in, in the same manner it's been avoided for all the other retailers who have been ignored in Leith Walk, Haymarket etc.

A sticking plaster over a gaping wound, a desperate act, from an inept consortium, building a tramLINE in a city which doesn't need it.
86

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 02/10/2008 14:56:13
I agree with 82 , but many of them are repairing the neglect after years of Labour inaction .
87

Concerned of Leith,

02/10/2008 14:58:15
#80

Willie Gallagher is currently on a salary of £170k with a bonus of £350k if Edinburgh Tram Line One is completed on time and on budget. (The on-time bit presumably by the revised deadline of July 2011!)
88

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 15:03:07
When are people going to realise that traffic disruption and delays are going to become the norm once this ridiculous train set is in place?

Just look at the proposed tram map and you will see what I mean.
89

mystic,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 15:08:08
Theres no way back now. We just have to live with the mess. All we can do now is not to vote labour at the next Scottish or general election.

www.SeeingEdinburgh.co.uk
90

,

02/10/2008 15:17:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
91

likkitysplit,

Thatchers legacy still biting us 02/10/2008 15:23:08
#89. Agreed. I missed that point about school run traffic.
Lets not be erses here and admit that were all to blame for believing the dream that cars give us freedom when in fact it is the exact opposite. We choke on the fumes, die early from stress and suffer the economic and security instability that comes from dependency filling the tank.
Thats slavery ya bass!
92

The Judge,

02/10/2008 15:32:25
£170k a year and he can't get something as simple as the diversions right?

Forget giving him the chance to resign, sack him.

Anybody with a single brain cell could have seen this coming. Almost every bus goes along Princes St, what did they think would happen?

Can you imagine what 5 years of this will do to the city's reputation. Don't come to Edinburgh, it's closed.
93

GMann,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 15:39:05
#105 I agree - let's get a campaign going to get him sacked - he won't resign not on the money he is earning. I wonder what shops they will be taking us to in 2011 - by then they will all be closed, if he is still in control!
94

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 15:55:30
#105 not closed, just diverted!....lol
95

valleyjim,

stuck in a traffic jam 02/10/2008 16:03:32
#106. You mean "Free Willie"?
96

FrankGallagher,

02/10/2008 16:09:41
104

Like microwaves?
97

jdships,

02/10/2008 16:27:42
34 The Genuine Mario Antoinette

The big problem with your argument is that there is only going to be one stop on Prince's Street and then Shandwick Place
98

GMann,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 16:28:39
#109 Yeah let's "Free Willie" from his obviously overtaxing responsibilities before 20 11(2008). He'll feel a whale lot better or at least we will.
99

The Judge,

02/10/2008 16:44:03
I wonder why Willie hasn't been pictured with the "chaos" in the same way he was pictured in Berlin with a load of rusty tram tracks proclaiming how good TIE was?

Not a single inch has been laid and we're already behind.
100

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 02/10/2008 16:48:05
As usual the critics are being wise after the event . They knew this was going to happen but did not have the guts to go into print .
101

The Judge,

02/10/2008 16:51:04
#116VOR I predicted this exact result when the plans were published last week in the EEN.

I think a lot of people predicted it, but as ever the protrammies laughed it off as "moronic ramblings".

102

FrankGallagher,

02/10/2008 17:08:37
114

I concur, pot noodles have a lot to answer for
103

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 02/10/2008 17:18:08
Well, one day on and everything is running fine.

So thats one less thing for the anti trammies to greet about, so they will now be frantically looking for something else for their CONSTANT MOANING.

And well done to TIE for getting it sorted so quick !
104

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

02/10/2008 17:23:58
#85 - you must be another dim wit if you don't realise that vehicles which would normally route through the city are being forced onto the bypass because of congestion caused on the city roads by the bus/taxis lanes that are in operation.
105

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

02/10/2008 17:26:03
#85 - duckhead
106

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 17:31:17
WOW todays journey home was something special, home in record time on a bus, nearly no conjestion. Reason why all the bus were stuck going Eastbound WOW what a queue, looked like half of the LB fleet was caught up, two lanes stuffed full of buses, solid all the way from the Westend. I can only imagine what the delays must have been? Not to mention the pollution from all these buses going nowhere? and guess what not one car was cught up in the queue
107

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 02/10/2008 17:33:04
WRONG 85.

The bypass goes nowwhere near the city centre, it caters for longer distance travel and cross city trips, that is why it is a trunk road, maintained by the Scottish Gvt.

Are you trying to say someone living in Leith is going on a 12 mile trip round the bypass to get to say Dalry ?

Igonrance is bliss.......
108

festerlehearts,

02/10/2008 17:42:10
ever since the public voted not to have pay tolls in edinburgh the council have made it there business to p*ss evey body of ,i think they have done a good job .....its time for a change vote them out
109

Incandescent,

02/10/2008 17:52:45
#123 In your case, perhaps "arrogance is bliss" might be more appropriate. I regularly use the bypass rather than endure the mess of Edinburgh these days. You are using a somewaht extreme example simply to support your own views.
110

Incandescent,

02/10/2008 17:53:14
somewhat, even
111

Just another day,

Edinburgh 02/10/2008 18:31:57
#34 "If the tram runs along princes street (which it will) you could argue that there are no need for buses at all along princes street"

Utter mince!

There are plenty of cross-city services that barely touch the tram route. If you are currently using one of the bus services to get from A to B, what will be your alternative? Go part way (to Princes Street) by bus then get off and get on a tram... then get off again and get on another bus to continue your journey?

You're a tw@t.
112

Goat Boy,

02/10/2008 18:48:46
127: Another good point.

I can’t think of any bus routes that will be replaced by the tram - even the 22. The 22 passes through residential areas that will not be served by the tram. So “they” really should have invested in new bus technology because only the bus provides a link to the whole city and all the neighbouring areas (like Midlothian, East Lothian and West Lothian). So we have been landed with a £575m transport system that goes no where and benefits few people. How did this happen?
113

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 18:56:28
#127 you are exactly right you will have to part way by bus then get the tram along Princes Street and then get back on a bus, Bus Tram Bus is exactly what TIE is planning for you all. A number of routes will be cut in half and two routes formed in its place, a bus/tram interchange will be built at Haymarket and St. Andrews Square. this means people will be forced to buy day tickets and as routes are cut in half they will be easier to manage and may even run to time.
114

Big bob 79,

02/10/2008 19:07:18
LOL
Willie "the jam" Gallagher love it as good as
T.I.E Termoil In Edinburgh
115

The Judge,

02/10/2008 19:22:54
You will have to forgive Road Raga and the rest of the protrammies. They only see what they want to see, RR knows fine well everything is not running smoothly.

116

jdships,

02/10/2008 19:24:06
127/128/129 ,

First class posts - absolutely correct as to what will happen !

I wrote to TIE and Lothian Buses in February on this very subject and have never had a reply from either company !
They seem to forget that with any new enterprise it has got to be "sold" properly to the prospective users.
117

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 02/10/2008 19:56:50
So a 600 million pound project is underway, and there is a wee bit disruption. Boo-Hoo.
Get used to it anti trammies ! The trams are a comin.
118

Goat Boy,

02/10/2008 19:59:57
What about a debate?

See if we can come up with 10 reasons to support the tram and 10 reasons why it's not a good idea.

1.The tram will hardly touch the growing problem of commuter traffic that enters the city every day, so claims that it will reduce emissions of greenhouse gases are unfounded.

Next…
119

suse,

02/10/2008 21:15:22
i think the sooner everyone realises that the tram line isnt really for locals who commute to work- its for tourists- the better. We'll be bus-tram-bussing it all over the place and thats just the way it seems to be. Annoying eh?
120

,

02/10/2008 21:22:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
121

,

02/10/2008 21:24:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
122

tumshie heid,

02/10/2008 22:20:16
When will this ever end? A bairn with a biscuit airm could have predicted this chaos but the clowns in charge still chose to pursue this giant white elephant.
123

,

02/10/2008 22:20:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
124

Ian down under,

Musselburgh 02/10/2008 23:00:41
When St Andrew Sq bus station was fully operational all the buses from East Lothian and all the Dalkeith direction buses went there. Now we have almost all the Frist Bus routes going through the city centre to Haymarket and further afield. We've got so called CrossRail from Newcraighall whcih goes to Haymarket and Edinburgh Park and its operated by First. So why not have the option of the E. lothian buses going this way [some almost do anyway] and with through ticketing on the trains to Haymarket and Edinburgh Park. As for getting rid of the old bus station well where are the howls of protest about that. When it existed at least you knew exactly where you could get a bus , now you wander along Princes St trying to find the right stop.
125

PJ,

Queensland 03/10/2008 06:32:05
I am glad I left Edinburgh in June, for sunny Hervey Bay! No Trams...no hassle! Now you know why they are called TIE, they like to tie people in knots.
126

AB's,

03/10/2008 07:57:09
Waited on a bus west bound at drumbrae roundabout - 2.5 hours to turn up!!! Got there at 9.30AM and wasnt on the bus untill a little after 11AM...

I even know people who missed the airport shuttle, therefore missing flights etc.

Terrible.


& from what I hear, it is only to get worse. Even after the trams are actually working...
127

,

03/10/2008 09:15:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
128

,

03/10/2008 09:17:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
129

World class concrete,

03/10/2008 09:39:06
Time for the EN to start campaigning against the closure of Princes Street. While they're at it, they could push for a review of the whole project. It's obviously being run by a bunch of incompetents.
130

Decent,

03/10/2008 10:04:14
156- haha ok you win - this time
131

Howard Moon,

03/10/2008 10:33:26
#159

Tony/Jenny

So you're a fan of the bus? You must hate these trams with a passion then. I agree, buses are needed, and modern technology could make them virtually pollution-free too. Shame we aren't investing in new bus technology, isn't it?
132

Decent,

03/10/2008 10:52:14
Why do they leave in cunp? And they took out canker?
133

,

03/10/2008 11:37:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
134

Decent,

03/10/2008 11:57:02
You do make me laugh Mr Foo - you annoy the flock out of me but you do make me laugh.
135

Ian down under,

Musselburgh 03/10/2008 21:06:46
A lot of the buses in this gridlock are run by First. The trains across Edinburgh from Newcraighall to Haymarket and Edinburgh Park are run by First. The North Berwick trains are run by First.
How about a revolutionary idea.
Get more buses going via Newcraighall to feed the trains and encourage passengers off the buses and onto the trains at Wallyford, allow THROUGH TICKETING and extend the North Berwick Trains to Curriehill or Kirknewton [they can crossover to come back there] and maybe we could reduce the number of First bus services crossing the city. In fact if they still had a central bus station this problem would be non existent. Again THROUGH TICKETING onto LB buses [they're not full all day] would mean less buses but each with more passengers.
It really is that simple, not perfect but a lot better than the current mess.
136

geekpie,

forfar 06/10/2008 13:47:19
While the tram work is going on, keep the buses moving, keep the cars out.
137

Ian down under,

Musselburgh 12/10/2008 23:19:44
#167 We need all tickets to be interchangable between the bus companies and the railway. Ideally if we must have separate companies why don't we franchise the routes and get less wasteful duplication.

The bus station we have is a tiny affair and only really copes with long distance services the old one was more useful. It also meant you could have a snack or visit the toilet before catching a bus.
138

notw1959,

Murrayburn Place, Edinburgh 15/10/2008 00:43:49
My comment refers to the absolute chaos that the gas pipes and other areas of re-alignemnt before the tram tracks are laid in Edinburgh. We were told that Princes Street an surrounding areas in Edinburgh were initially to start the creation of Tram track laying, when in fact we have yet again had the wool pulled over our eyes, as this work was and is all about the re-alignment of gas pipes etc, and nothing to do with the trams. When the work is all done aall refilled in and then tarred over, the same streets and the same chaos is set to return when the proper tram works are to begin in earnest. Why do the good people of Edinburgh put up with this nonesense? We succesfully voted against the congestion charge for Princes Street, surely there should have been a public vbote to see if the people of Edinburgh wanted the trams to return, did we get a vote? nope yet again the Edinburgh people were overlooked by people supposedly in the know to rush through the vote to bring back the trams to Edinburgh. Surely if trams were needed in Edinburgh would it not have been better to have left the original tram tracks where they were instead of getting rid of them in the first place, instead of all this commotion and buisnesses closing all around us because no-one can get close to the shops etc.
139

Bob 2,

22/12/2008 08:56:47
Speaking on the vote Cllr Phil Wheeler, Transport Convener at the City of Edinburgh Council, said: "I'm delighted that there was cross-party support for the temporary full closure to traffic of Princes Street in early 2009. Work will now continue to ensure that the traffic management arrangements are as robust as possible.


 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 

Today's Vote

Will a full-size model of a city tram help persuade you of the project’s benefits?
No, nothing will convince me it's not a waste of money
No, I'll reserve judgement until the trams are in operation
Yes, it's something concrete to show for all the roadworks

Featured Advertising



Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.