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Fuel crisis threatening to stop wheels on the bus going round



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Published Date: 07 July 2008
A NUMBER of Lothian Buses services could be axed as fuel costs make it harder to balance books.
The soaring price of diesel, a wider economic slowdown and tram roadworks have severely dented passenger numbers and profit levels at the council-backed bus firm in the last six months.

A review of all services has now been ordered, with a number
of loss-making routes set to be stopped as the company feels the effects of the credit crunch.

The extent of the cuts is not yet clear, but it is expected the review will be completed in weeks.

Favourites for the axe are services which rely on both council subsidies and support from the more profitable routes.

In March, Lothian Buses revealed it was facing a £4 million shortfall because of increases in tax and fuel costs, as well as a Scottish Government freeze on a rebate to transport operators used to cover rises in fuel duty.

The firm responded in April by putting the cost of an adult single up from £1 to £1.10, but it now appears that was not enough.

Council chiefs today said they are in talks with Lothian Buses on ways to mitigate the impact of the service cuts but added that the local authority – which has a 91 per cent stake in the company – was powerless to intervene because the bus firm has commercial autonomy.

A number of under-threat Lothian Buses services have been saved this last year thanks to local campaigns and council subsidies.

Colinton and Fairmilehead Tory councillor Jason Rust fears one of the first routes lost would be the No.18 Sunday service from The Gyle to the ERI

Cllr Rust helped gather close to 3000 signatures in a petition to save the service after the council cut its subsidy, persuading the administration to give the service a six-month reprieve at the cost of £12,000.

He said: "My constituents will be extremely angry that we fought so hard, and effectively won the argument, only for service cuts to come back on the table again.

"There will be concern across the city, and it is up to the council to stand up for the people of Edinburgh by asking Alistair Darling to review the taxes on fuel duty in the current climate."

Passengers made a record 114m trips on Lothian Buses last year. It was the ninth year in a row the bus firm has seen passenger numbers rise, which the company put down to more frequent services on its most popular routes.

A spokesman for Transport Edinburgh Limited, Lothian Buses' parent company, said: "We run the business on the basis that profitable services help to support the less profitable services.

"We need to manage the balance between the two and when the profitability is down we have two options, increase the fares or reduce the number of loss-making services which we cross.

"It is a matter of record that we have already been forced into an unscheduled fares increase so we are currently conducting a review of our services."

Councillor Phil Wheeler, the city's transport leader, said: "The revision of any services is a commercial decision by Lothian Buses, who operate autonomously from the council and they are obviously reacting to the current market situation and rising fuel prices. There will be ongoing discussions to see how we can mitigate this situation."





The full article contains 578 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 07 July 2008 11:46 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Transport
 
1

Darren :-),

07/07/2008 12:07:59
Cut the number of #22's and #26's as they run every 5 minutes or so, to every 10 or 12 minutes and it would save money on running empty buses. Also, they could drop the tramLINE idea, and save the cash for more fuel, AND they could use the cash they save on the tramline white elephant for to get green buses
2

Simon M,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 12:08:14
If the cuts happen, we'll have the SNP Government's freezing of the Bus Operators' Grant to thank for it.

While bus firms in England and Wales are getting higher grants to keep fares down, the Nats are using their share of the money for their own priorities. It's a disgrace.
3

allknowing,

07/07/2008 12:14:40
Poor mans travel, long may it continue freeing up space on the road for me!!!
4

allknowing,

07/07/2008 12:15:39
Thanks to all those people who druge their way to work in the rain and wind, dealing with neds and jakeys, so that I can arrive nice and warm in my car. Cheers!
5

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 12:17:48
Why do they have to use a stupid nursery rhyme based headline for this serious matter? I am sick of being dumbed down all the time.

Anyway, all those of you morons who support the high price of fuel and are even calling for higher prices can now see that high fuel prices do not just affect the car drivers that you hate so much. They will also affct YOU. If you are too thick to see that now, there really is no hope for you.
6

antifa,

07/07/2008 12:21:52
"Poor mans travel, long may it continue freeing up space on the road for me!!!"

You haven't thought this through have you, mate? Or may be you have but your brain doesn't work properly (you certainly don't know how to write a sentence).
7

geekpie,

forfar 07/07/2008 12:30:47
A service which requires subsidy now may not do so in 1 or 2 year's time. Increasingly people will make decisions on where to live and work based on availability of public transport.

It's difficult to comment on the routes under threat, but one way to raise funding would be increased car parking charges in the city, as well as introducing a charge at the numerous "free" (massively subsidised) parking areas at retail parks and supermarkets.
8

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 12:30:55
#6, ignore him. He seems to be lacking a few things in life so comes on here and talks sh1t3!
9

allknowing,

07/07/2008 12:35:40
"You haven't thought this through have you, mate? "

Yes i have, more people on buses, more room on the road for me. Quite simple really!

10

A Leither,

07/07/2008 12:38:36
Perhaps if they turned the heating off in the buses in summer, they may save a bit of money. I know the drivers like a bit of a laugh, but jumping into a mobile sauna on a warm-ish day is not fun. The 22 I was on this morning was absolutely cooking. I'm dreading my once-a-week bus commute when the sun really DOES come out :-(
11

Foo,

ejinbara 07/07/2008 12:43:22
Lucky we're getting trams then, which do not require deisel or petrol to run!

A tram can hold 220 people, a bus can hold 77 at most.

Trams are clean and buses are filthy.

Not that I use public transport, but any driver in Edinburgh will welcome less buses on the road, they are a menace!
12

Ecto,

07/07/2008 12:43:45
"The revision of any services is a commercial decision by Lothian Buses, who operate autonomously from the council" What a load of tosh just look and see who is on the board of Lothian Buses, need I say anymore. If running costs go up you should increase the price of the ticket-doh! Or dare i say it- pay the drivers a bit less??
13

I love to eat Sellotape,

07/07/2008 12:46:31
Why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why don't they get buses that run on benefits?
14

McHatter,

Leith 07/07/2008 12:49:26
They have a 91% stake but they can't intervene? What!?

#5 The headline of this article is worse than dumbing down, it's infantile.

The tax revenue escalates when fuel prices increase. Why is this windfall not ploughed into higher subsidy for public transport? Oh, sorry, it's used to replace the bridge tolls which were removed to win votes.
15

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 12:56:34
#11 -Are the trams air powered? The cost of electricity is directly linked to the cost of gas and oil.

Of course, if they had scrapped the tramline they could have used the money saved to run every Lothian Bus service completely free for almost 10 years.
16

Bob 2,

07/07/2008 12:58:29
No11 and what does electricy get produced from, well Gas Fired Power stations is one source.

Nuclear well look at the clean up costs.

No11

some facts about trams and buses

A Double Deck Bus seats some 84/86 passengers
A Tram wil seat 80.

Road Space Like for like
3 Double Deck Buses will take up about the same space as a tram: therefore lets compare like for like

A Tram will hold 250 passengers - 68% standing
3 Double Deck Buses hold 300+ passengers - 17% standing

And how are TRAMS clean, they're not even running, with 250 people on them to drop litter.

Power for trams will be produced somewhere either by coal, gas or nuclear...all have some sort of waste.

Has anyone noticed how there are less cars on the road with the school holidays being on and noticed that your bus journey is a bit quicker, not of course being helped by all the road and tram works around edinburgh just now
17

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 12:59:10
#14 Hear, hear. If this administration really wanted people out of their cars they would act to shield bus passengers from these cost increases. First already put their fares up last month, which I notice got absolutely no interest from the council or the EN.
#2 While I agree that the SNP government shares some blame in this respect, bus companies in England/Wales have also been putting their fares up, so it is not the only issue
18

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 13:00:00
#15, that depends how the electricity is generated. Something which will change drastically in the not so distant future.

Just like we will have to change the way we fuel our transport, hence the importance and long term benefit of trams.
19

Peter,

SNP for Me! 07/07/2008 13:01:06
Trams, trams, Trams, trams,
Trams, trams, trams, trams,
Wonderful trams, glorious trams

Well except if you are a business in Shandwick Place, down Leith Walk or now it seems Lothian Buses.

PS 'Econuts' electricity is going up a minimum of 40% over the next year because of oil prices, the cost of the tram build will rise because of oil prices, the tram project remains the economics of the madhouse and is going to cost Edinburgh Tax payers a fortune in terms of projects they need that will not be going ahead because the cash required has been sucked into this Unionist black hole. It also appears that to run on highly corrosive eco-diesel all the buses will need a complete refit of all their fuel systems to convert as will their fuel depots. Plus it appears eco-diesel pushes up maintenance costs and reduces engine life both of which will be good for the ecology.
20

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 13:02:56
#16 Manchester powers its trams by renweables purchased from SSE - I see no reason why Edinburgh cannot do the same.
21

Bob 2,

07/07/2008 13:07:37
If there's compensation for Shop/Businesses losing trade, then why isn't there compensation for Public Transport.

TIE are responsible for the diversions and holds up that is effecting Bus Travel in Edinburgh. Diversions, traffic lights etc.

Which is increasing the cost of running the bus services, never mind the loss of passengers, would you travel into Edinburgh City Centre.

Buses are running late (contrary to TIE media reports), waiting 20mins for a Bus only to find 2 arriving at the same time, despite there being 20mins between them isn't pleasant as many will tell you!!!
22

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

07/07/2008 13:16:26
Dont worry your stupid little heads about it. Your buses will be okay.

Why not have a laugh at a picture of Jason Rust inside ?

http://www.alba.org.uk/images/jasonrust.jpg
23

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 13:25:01
#21 - You forgot to mention that buses were never, ever late before.
24

Capital Boy,

07/07/2008 13:42:50
is it true the no 22 runs every 22 seconds ?
25

FrankGallagher,

07/07/2008 13:48:43
like a fish needs a bicycle
26

Foo,

07/07/2008 13:50:17
#16 - Your figures are wrong, individual trams can carry up to 350 people, compared to about 120 in a bus.


They are cleaner in so much as they are not spewing deisel fumes in my face every time I walk down a street.

They are kinder to the environment as they use electricity. Of course this has to come from a production source.

Nuclear does not produce carbon based air pollution, and there is increasing renewable technology providing power.

Trams are the way forward and buses should (and are) on the way down.

Honestly, why do you moan about the trams, they are coming whather you like it or not.

27

I love to eat Sellotape,

07/07/2008 13:58:13
"whather"?
28

Norman,

07/07/2008 13:58:28
Did someone mention Edinburgh and roadworks? Would make you greet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdJdoJKHyho
29

Paddy McGuire,

07/07/2008 14:00:23
I saw a cat on a lead earlier today... now that's a crisis!
30

FrankGallagher,

07/07/2008 14:04:31
nuclear tram? whatever next?
31

Paddy McGuire,

07/07/2008 14:05:15
Nuclear bunker would be a good idea
32

Foo,

ejinbara 07/07/2008 14:06:07
#27 - It's a common expression down my way.
33

Foo,

ejinbara 07/07/2008 14:06:43
#30 - Correct. In fact that would be awesome.
34

I love to eat Sellotape,

07/07/2008 14:14:09
Here are some common expressions down my way:

- plubbie
- cleem
- hlawfejbh
- winja
35

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

07/07/2008 14:16:39
Some from where I bide

1) Smaak
2) Dooei
3) Midget Golf
4) Lekker Weer
5) Ich Liebe Tripe aus Trams
36

Foo,

ejinbara 07/07/2008 14:16:41
A friend of mine worked on a nuclear submarine for a while. He used to tell me stories about how they would put the coffee on some nuclear related pipe to heat it up and have 'nuclear coffee'.

I wasn't that impressed.
37

Foo,

07/07/2008 14:19:20
#36 Pffft
'midget golf' is an expression round your way?
38

Niadh,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 14:23:29
#18 20Something
Do you know something the rest of us don't if so please share in this wonderful knowledge.
I ask because I pay reasonably close attention to power generation tech and there is nothing groundbreaking on the way that is going to generate the kind of power we need here more cleanly that current generators.
The only thing that is cleaner than current mass generation is Fusion and you are not likely to see it in public use in your lifetime.

#26 Foo.
Renewable energy generation is not going to generate enough power to run this beast.
The other problem with power generators is that they focus the pollution in one area rather than being spread out.
Nuclear power just means that not only do we have to deal with the spent fuel rods but so do our descendants 20 generations down the line.

We would have been far better investing that 586million quid on more environmentally friendly buses be they electricity, solar, LPG or cow cr4p.
39

Foo,

ejinbara 07/07/2008 14:28:41
#40 - Can you honestly come up with a reason why used fuel rods couldn't be put on a small satellite and shot at the sun?

Renewable energy can and will be the solution. A hundred years ago they said everything that could be invented had been. Things develop very rapidly these days.
40

11+failed,

the pans 07/07/2008 14:33:50
Edinburgh MP and government minister Darling insists on increasing fuel taxes to encourage people out of their cars onto the buses. Before you get on the bus,Edinburgh fares increase to keep you off! Not that I should be seen dead sharing a bus with the great unwashed.
41

Statsman,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 14:46:06
"tram roadworks have severely dented passenger numbers and profit levels"

Not my problem. The council and Lothian Buses wanted the tram fiasco. The majority of citizens didn't. Lothian Buses is council owned. It has a responsibility to the public to provide the services whether the tram works are happening or not. Trams are not an excuse as they are self inflicted.

The council, TIE and Lothian Buses should come clean about any planned cross-profiteering that uses the buses to pay for the construction of the tram route.
42

,

07/07/2008 14:49:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
43

20something,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 14:51:34
40, I didn't say groundbreaking. I said a change.

It seems the wonderful knowledge I have that you don't is being able to read.
44

,

07/07/2008 14:59:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
45

I love to eat Sellotape,

07/07/2008 15:07:47
What irritates me is this huge boil I've got on the inside of my left thigh.
46

Brian Ferrari,

07/07/2008 15:09:30
Getting back to the football, why don't LRT just charge passengers more on the loss making routes - Say £2 a pop instead of £1.10?
47

Foo,

ejinbara 07/07/2008 15:19:26
In all seriousness, why don't they consider alternative forms of energy such as gas?
48

I love to eat Sellotape,

07/07/2008 15:20:36
Expensive tolls on all roads leading into Edinburgh. £4 a pop if you want to get into the city.

Money from this goes to making public transport free to everyone who isn't legally drunk.

I'm not joking.
49

Mr Fuzzy,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 15:24:33
#48
It wouldn't make any difference - the "regulars" on a loss making route will all have monthly bus passes.

If the services were reduced, these passengers would have not incentive to purchase a monthly bus pass and would be forced to use a double taxi trip or use their own car.
50

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

07/07/2008 15:31:23
39 . Yes, sorry I've been busy trying to work out whether it's all worth it in the end. Everything , you know.
51

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

07/07/2008 15:32:42
Guys , youve all been suckered. This is like a local news report like with a local take on like the global rise in price of oil like.

Just dont worry.
52

Foo,

ejinbara 07/07/2008 15:52:14
#53 - Yes, but it gives me something to do at the office...that and that hippo photo.
53

ChrisEH26,

Penicuik 07/07/2008 15:59:52
Bound to happen as Lothian Buses are a business so if costs go up (ie: fuel) and income goes down due to less people travelling then something has to give.
Fares here are way below other areas - how far would you get in most cities for only £2.50?
54

I love to eat Sellotape,

07/07/2008 16:10:54
I've calculated this for Moenchengladbach. The answer is 3,324.3m.
55

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

07/07/2008 16:18:21
55 Name a city and I will tell you how far you can go for 2 pounds 50. BUt you have to tell me a starting point.

Keep in mind that if its a foreign city they wont even let you on the bus /tram /donkey for 2 pounds fifty.

Cmon then ya bam. Cmon.
56

Foo,

ejinbara 07/07/2008 16:30:01
#57 - St Kilda, Melbourne. £2.50 = roughly $7. All day card for zone one is $6.

Zone 1 gets you from St Kilda all the way to North Coburg.

http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/var/metlink/storage/images/maps_stations_stops/metropolitan_trams/864-22-eng-AU/metropolitan_trams.gif

Does that count?
57

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 16:33:58
Foo,

What is deisel?

Assuming you mean "diesel", you are exaggerating when you talk about blowing diesel fumes into your face. That is typical of the anti-everything brigade. I honestly hope that some of you REALLY come up against something that ACTUALLY causes you great discomfort and potentially, harm. Perhaps then you'll see the difference and stop whinging about everything and multiplying the "badness" by a factor of about 1,000 every time you mention it.
58

,

07/07/2008 16:41:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
59

Foo,

ejinbara 07/07/2008 16:47:57
#59 - I'm dyslexic, but don't let that stop you mate.

Honestly, I'm not against anything like what you make out. However I have had a face full of DIESEL more than once.

I hate buses. I hate the people you find on them, the drivers, the amount of space they take up and all the rest.

I've lived half my life in a variety of cities around the world with trams and loved them.

DIESEL contains a variet of poisons which, when inhaled can be harmful. Not to mention the fact that all of Edinburgh's buildings are stained black from the sh1te the buses produce.
60

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

07/07/2008 17:02:22
#47 - from your daily inane drivel and general comedy repetoire suitable for 2 year olds to understand. I would be more concerned with the boil in your brain. It could be a tumour.
61

Niadh,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 17:07:16
#61 Foo have to agree with you on that.
It is provable that the fumes from a Diesel powered vehicle contain far more carcinogenic compounds than an equivelant petrol engine plus a few that are not produced by petrol.
However. You ask what is wrong about firing the spent fuel rods into the sun. I'll tell you. The chemicals burned to send the fuel rods into space to send them to the sun are far more hazardous than car exhaust fumes.

#45 20Something. You have not answered the question and mine was quite correct.
"that depends how the electricity is generated. Something which will change drastically in the not so distant future."

What technology are you hinting at that does not produce any hazardous by product that could be used to power this tram system?
It would have to be groundbreaking because there is nothing out there at the moment which can generate sufficient power to supply to this tram and be environmentally friendly.

The same goes for this comment
"Just like we will have to change the way we fuel our transport, hence the importance and long term benefit of trams."
62

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

07/07/2008 17:16:26
58 foo no it doesnt ebcause you cant spend 2 pounds 50 in melbourne.

anyway, for the rest of you wittering on about where our future energy is coming from , i suggest you shut your mouths and do some work (unless you work for shell R&R in which case carry on).
63

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 17:17:14
"I'm dyslexic, but don't let that stop you mate"

Don't worry, it won't.

I don't think you have ever had a faceful of diesel. You may had had a faceful of fumes from a diesel engine exhaust...

Yes, some of the components are harmful if you breath in too much of them. However, in a normal roadside environment they are relatively harmless.

The particulates in diesel exhaust fumes can make buildings dirty as you say but there are plenty of other factors in that as well.

I'm not a great fan of buses. I use them when I have to but I'd rather take the car (which is petrol powered and therefore has a cleaner exhaust) or the motorbike if I can. I've also been to continental cities where they have trams, but in the main, these are cities with huge great wide boulevards where trams, normal traffic and pedestrians have room to interact without a problem.

Edinburgh is not such a city. There is already talk of closing roads to acommodate this overgrown toy train set, which will serve only to create even more congestion in and around the city. From an engineering perspective, there WILL be problems with the damn things getting up Leith Walk during the winter months. The reason? The old tram system was driven by cables under the road surface. The proposed system will be driven by friction between the wheels and rails---which we all know will be significantly reduced by the presence of ice, snow and the salt and grit they shovel onto the roads to try to stop it.

I could go on and on listing serious, unconsidered problems with this scheme. Not least is the cost. We already have a good, reliable bus service. We do not need to waste billions on a toy train set to impress the tourists and give the politicians something to crow about.
64

neds-r-us,

3, Edinburgh Road, Perth 07/07/2008 17:21:22
All SNP candidates in Edinburgh, at the last election, promised more buses for Edinburgh.

The SNP are happy to see the buses in Edinburgh cut so that more money will go to farmers and fishermen in the north-east of Scotland.

The SNP are also very happy to spend hundreds of millions of pounds on more roads and motorways whilst buses in Edinburgh are cut thus forcing more people onto cars.

The SNP are not the slightest bit interested in public transport.
65

rs,

.on the bus seat 07/07/2008 17:49:16
"It is a matter of record that we have already been forced into an unscheduled fares increase so we are currently conducting a review of our services."....

What Unscheduled Fares increase, the £1 single fare was due to rise, there is normally fares increase on the single fare every 2 years, the last increase saw the 80p fare disappear.

no68 is correct The SNP are wasting sorry spending some £692m on 5 miles of road in glasgow, a mere £138.4m A MILE

The reality is the demand for OIL is increasing while the supply is decreasing.

We have become a Generation that has wasted Our resources. A Throw it away generation.

LB have to live up to the reality, unless THE SNP government increase the FUEL REBATE and encourage people to use the bus.

They also need to re-imburse Bus companies for the FREE travel for OAPS, just now they only get a percentage of the fare back.... The BALANCE is PAID for by the Bus Travelling Public.

Yes its bad enough that you can't get a seat or even on a bus at peak times beacuse of the Blue Rinse brigade...but subsidising there fares as well.

Off Peak travel FREE, but Peak times should be FULL FARE
66

rs,

in ma house 07/07/2008 17:51:21
So maybe some of the videos on the TIE website are showing the future.

With only Trams running on our streets, No cars or buses to be seen, with a few tourists searching for whats left of Edinburghs World Hertitage.!!
67

Ianfraefife,

Leven 07/07/2008 19:37:15
Well said #65. Was any serious consideration given to introducing trolley-buses instead of trams? No digging up of roads,easily extendable network, manoeuvrable, and most importantly NO DIESEL!
68

Foo,

07/07/2008 19:56:30
#67, what is this acommodate of which you speak? Do you mean accommodate?

Yes, it sounds like you have lots and lots of clever little arguments thought out, however you didn't really answer my points, more, you just acknowledged them to be true and brushed over them.

There's one thing you haven't thought of though, the trams are coming whether you like it or not. So all your moaning and whining will achieve nothing whatsoever.
69

Andrew,

07/07/2008 20:24:40
15) "Are trams air-powered"? Well YES, if you think wind turbines!!
70

McMadman,

http://scottishreferendum2008.blogspot.com 07/07/2008 21:23:28
"Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head"

"The old tram system was driven by cables under the road surface. The proposed system will be driven by friction between the wheels and rails---which we all know will be significantly reduced by the presence of ice, snow and the salt and grit they shovel onto the roads to try to stop it."

Wrong. Leith trams were always electric. Embra trams were cable hauled until 1920 when Embra city boundary shifted to include the republic of Leith. The boundary was at Pilrig Street at the church on Leith Walk (hence the "Boundary Bar").

Until 1920 this used to be caused the "Pilrig muddle;" there was no interoperability betweein the electric and cable systems. Edinburgh went electric for the remaining 35 years or so of trams; thus for at least 30 years plus there was no probs running trams from the foot of the walk right up leith street, the mound and the bridges in all weathers and when winters were arguably more severe then than now.
71

Ian down under,

Kawerau 07/07/2008 21:29:29
Antitrammers are struggling a bit now.
Not only can electrically powered trams and trains use renewable or sustainable generation with the only fossils to be seen standing on the side moaning about trams.
There is also regenerative braking where the vehicle slows down by turning the motors into generators and putting the power back to the lines. This is not new BR used it in the 1950s between Manchester and Sheffield and Sir Richard Beardie's Pendolinos have it on the West Coast Main Line. Lots of electric uniots south of London are now doing the same. They can effectively reduce power consumption by up to 15% this way.
Also the rolling resistance of rail is less than rubber tyres and tarmac so 7 times as much weight can be moved on rail compared with road. So even if we had diesel trams one bus engine could pull as much as 7 bus loads of people.
There is also other technology like battery power on city centre routes but with overhead lines in outlying areas. These trams could then run on bateries in the city centre and get charged up when they are off the streets on the old rail lines, then there is flywheel technology.
72

Drat,

Edinburgh 07/07/2008 21:46:50
#67 The old tram system that I remember had overhead cables and I don't remember any problems getting up Leith Walk.
73

Foo,

ejinbara 07/07/2008 22:10:54
#67 - Ever lived in Geneva? Plenty of hills, narrow streets and, believe me, a lot colder weather than we get. Trams work fine and dandy there.
74

Ian down under,

Kawerau 07/07/2008 22:18:00
#77 you are right. I thinkt the earliest trams in Edinburgh were cable drawn but the overhead pwer cables took over and the trams did climb some pretty steep hills. Modern trams are even better at this because they have antislip technology and more efficient motors. I think they even went up the Mound to reach George IV Bridge.
As for the salt and grit causing problems, the answer is quite the opposite. Even high speed trains have sand pipes which blow sand onto the rails to improve adhesion in slippery conditions also individual wheels can be controlled separately to keep the best grip. If you are not convined go down the M74 to just north of Beattock and park up on one of the laybyes off the old road and watch electric trains romping uphill at 100mph in all weathers. I've actually been in the cab of a BR electric loco in icy weather with a 400 tonne train which started the climb at 100mph and finished it 10 miles later by applying the brakes to keep to the 90 mph limit at the summit. So don't worry about Leith St, it'll be fine.
75

rs,

in ma house 08/07/2008 20:40:06
Ian

have you ever been in Edinburgh, slighest bit of rain or snow and the whole city comes to a halt.


 

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