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Edinburgh transport chiefs eye 100% rate cut for traders



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Published Date: 02 May 2008
BELEAGUERED traders on Leith Walk are in line for more financial support after city councillors acknowledged that tram works are threatening their livelihoods.
Council leader Jenny Dawe has ordered officials to investigate the possibility of offering 100 per cent rate rebates to some businesses to boost the current deal, which only provides average compensation of 20 per cent.

Meanwhile, councillors have admitted that last week's announcement of a £10 million hike in the cost of the controversial tram project – up to £508m – may "severely impact" plans for an extension from Roseburn to Granton.

Currency fluctuations and "protracted" contract negotiations with the firms building the trams and associated infrastructure have eaten into the funding available for the spur – known as 1b.

At a full council meeting yesterday, the SNP group successfully passed a motion that warned of the financial shortfall, and also said the local authority should "endeavour to satisfy" traders who have pleaded for more help.

Deputy council leader Steve Cardownie said: "Some family firms (on Leith Walk) have said they face going bankrupt, and everyone here is very concerned about that. We have asked the director of finance to see if we can help alleviate this."

Cllr Dawe said she acknowledged the hardship traders were facing, and said she was aware that Labour MSP Malcolm Chisholm has appealed to Finance Secretary John Swinney to help provide 100 per cent rates relief.

"We know this is difficult to do, and a very strong case has to be made, but I have also asked our director of finance to investigate if this could be possible in individual cases," Cllr Dawe said.

Earlier this week, over 150 traders from Leith Walk and Constitution Street confronted tram firm TIE with tales of incomes slashed by up to 90 per cent.

TIE is currently offering businesses with a rateable value of under £28,000 a 20 per cent rebate with a support package of up to £4000, which they have been able to extend to off-route side streets due to a lower-than-expected uptake.

However, many traders at the meeting said this fell far short and suggested further measures, such as a freeze in rates or a low-interest loan to tide businesses over.

Nigel Duncan, vice-chairman of Edinburgh's Federation of Small Businesses, said today: "Anything that will relieve this disaster zone will be welcomed.

This is a very positive step forward, and we applaud Jenny Dawe for it."

In March, TIE launched a project team to investigate ways to pay for line 1b, and said it was "optimistic" it would go ahead.

But Cllr Cardownie said today: "We now have to find more money from elsewhere, because the budget is £10m greater."

TIE has said it is still committed to the spur.


The full article contains 471 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Arrow,

edinburgh 02/05/2008 12:39:33
how about holding it back from the excessive fees being paid to TIE in recompense for their earlier assurances that there would be only very limited disruption. better still, take it out of the expenses of the councillors who voted for the white elephant and if that is not enough deduct it from the severance pay that they get when they are voted out of office at the next local government election.
2

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

02/05/2008 13:11:21
The Council can't discriminate against others in this way. Businesses know the risks of trading & that there will always be good & not so good times. If a business gets a 100% rate cut, then they should not be allowed to trade.
3

Wee Keef,

02/05/2008 13:12:27
Better still, cut your losses, fill in the holes, cancel the whole damn thing and spend the money on something that will actually benefit Edinburgh. The argument that trams will boost the city's economy is a bit hollow if you have destroyed that economy in the process.

Try re-doing the cost benefit analysis now, based on experience, and see what comes out at the end.
4

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

, Newington 02/05/2008 13:25:28
This is turning into the most expensive game of Train Sets I've ever seen.
5

LouW,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 13:33:07
How long will it take, and how much of OUR money will be wasted, before the council realise that nobody (except them) wants the trams! I feel so sorry for the traders, a full rate rebate would at least help them a little, but Wee Keef was right - cancel the whole thing now! The chaos in Leith is unbelievable and also dangerous, not only for traffic (I was on a bus on Leith Walk a couple of weeks ago and there was a huge traffic jam - a passenger eventually had to get off my bus to guide it through a narrow space) but also for pedestrians. CANCEL THE TRAMS!!
6

vote them out,

02/05/2008 13:34:35
You can get the extra £10million for the trams by closing 10 schools, better still lets make that 20 schools and Jenny Dawe can treat herself to a new fur lined robe. It is only a matter of time before the lib/dems try to make the public pay for their tram fiasco.
7

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 13:38:34
Wee Keef.
Take your point about cost benefit analysis but wonder what contribution some of the shops on Leith make to the overall Edinburgh ecomony. I can't imagine that TV and Darts guy gets invited to Sir Fred Goodwins pad to discuss the latest developments in global business and finance.
As I keep saying the marority of shops are local shops for local people. Folks are still able to walk past and get off buses etc. Like those who say they have never met anyone who wants the trams, I have never met anyone who drives to Leith Walk to do their shopping with the exception of Valvona Crolla.
8

The Judge,

02/05/2008 13:47:23
A handful of months into the project and already its £10m over budget, and still not a single inch of line laid.

Where are all the protramies now?
9

Saloux,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 13:49:39
This is only the first phase of this trash - presumably all these concessions will need to be made again if the tracks ever get laid down. Amazing how none of the dimwits on our council foresaw any of this chaos. How much has this toy train set cost to date - perhaps the EN could find out and publish the figures for us all to see. As for the proposed line 1b - TIE get lost!
10

LouW,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 14:01:04
Scallywag, I frequently drive to Leith to do shopping (I live in Trinity) as it's a good shopping area with a wide range of shops in Leith Walk and the Kirkgate. Many of my neighbours do, too, but it's very offputting to have to risk life and limb to cross Leith Walk while the tram work is going on! By the way, Valvona Crolla isn't in Leith Walk....
11

Wee Keef,

02/05/2008 14:04:10
Scallywag

TV and Darts guy is in business to feed. clothe and house his family and those of his employees and is, presumably, paying his rates, taxes and contributing just the same as everyone else. It is not just the HBOS's of this world which have a part to play in the economy.

Nor is it just Leith Walk. Ask the business people in Shandwick Place. Ask them in Constitution Street. Ask them in Princes Street when its closed for half a year in 2009.
12

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 14:05:28
Let it not be forgotten that the 'Operational' part of TIE is overseen by third-rate, early-retiral refugees from City Development. They were incompetent to manage and maintain the roads in a safe and serviceable condition then, why should anybody expect them competent to see through a project of this magnitude now. I hate to say I told you so. And will this 100% rates relief be coming out of TIE's budget?
13

Mike Hunt,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 14:11:50
I was in Shandwick Place yesterday at 4.30pm and it was nice and quiet with no traffic....and no workies either - they had knocked off for the day.

Frankly, that's ridiculous...to minimise the commercial effect on nearby businesses (and reduce compensation claims) why are they not working at least 8-8? I bet in Germany they'd be doing 18-hours in shifts and weekends too to get the thing finished.
14

Dragonlord,

02/05/2008 14:30:01
Where will the council get the money? LibDem/Labour left us with a black hole has it been filled? If so get whoever filled it down to the walk.
15

The Judge,

02/05/2008 14:39:58
#13 In most other countries they would be working 24/7 52 weeks of the year until the job was finished, but here they know they'll be paid whether the job takes 5 years or 10 years and with an open ended contact it suits them to knock off early every day.

#14 Simple people will be paid off, no management of course, and services will be cut to the bone, there is no other way to raise the money now that the SNP have capped their contribution at £500m and frozen the council tax.

I'm still waiting on a protramie telling me it'll still be finished "on time and on budget".
16

I love to eat Sellotape,

02/05/2008 15:14:16
Ooh, get her in the pink blouse - "protramie"!
17

Optimus Prime,

Cybertron 02/05/2008 15:17:39
BUILD IT AND PEOPLE WILL COME.............
18

THE BPRENTICE,

02/05/2008 15:28:39
At least people like Cllr Cardownie are taking this seriously...it is.

Most of the posts on here are bang on - apart from Scallywag.....

Of course you're entitled to your opinon - but I'm entitled to mine too: Scallywag, I can only assume you don't have anything to do with Leith and don't know anyone that has a business in Leith and indeed, you don't spend anytime or money in Leith?

....your comments come across to me as being borne out of ignorance and devilment. I know directly of people with businesses on Leith Walk that have had their businesses brought to their knees with the tram work.

In fact, if you're not sure about the subject your talking about - why not try being less dismissive? Otherwise, rightly or wrongly, anyone reading your comments might assume you are a 2 inch cheesy stabber. I'm sure that would be unfair? Maybe?
19

vote them out,

02/05/2008 16:13:07
£508 million bank rate of interest 6%

thats 30.48 million per year or £83,500.00 per day so this is the profit that the tram must make excluding running costs just to break even!

So lets say that 10% of every tram ticket sold is pure profit. This means that the tram would have to sell £835,000 worth of tickets per day. Population of edinburgh - approx 200,000. So every man woman and child would have to spend £4 per day on the tram for it to break even!!
20

vote them out,

correction 02/05/2008 16:17:42
sorry approx. population of edinburgh is 415,000 so its good news every man woman and child only has to spend £2 per day on the tram for it to break even.
21

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 16:39:50
#10
So at last someone who drives (and knows others) to Leith to do your shopping. From you post the only difference is taking life and limb crossing road works as opposed to crossing the normal four lanes of traffic. If you are so loyal to Leith shops do you still shop there or does every little bit on inconvenience put you off? If you do then whats the problem? If not then why not?

#11, Of course TV and Darts guy is making a living for his family. I have no problem with that but these guys knew these works were coming and only now have they set themselves up into some group. Where was the collective action to put forward entrepreneurial ideas to mitiagte against the situation. No, all we get is the ususal Edinburgh reaction, sit back and then go whining to the press and ask for handouts at the earliest opportunity.
You don't hear much from Shandwick Place businesses becasue the vast majority are national to medium sized chains who wuill weather this storm out.

#18 I have plenty experience of businesses whining in the EEN that everybody and there uncle is to blame for them failing,. I admit that the tram is a bit out of the ordinary but when its all over you will find that the quality, niche and specialist shops will still be standing. Go around any part of town and you will see independant businesses that have been there for years and will withstand hurricanes, drought famine etc. Invariably the ones who go under fail because they are poor quality, open the wrong business in the wrong place and have the owners have little or no idea of their market.

And let us all please remember if people aren't shopping on Leith Walk they must be shopping elsewhere so the local and national economy will still be rolling along quite the thing.
22

THE BPRENTICE,

02/05/2008 16:46:33
#21 ...okay,I can admit when I am wrong - you ARE a 2 inch cheesy stabber.
23

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 17:09:50
#22
Don't get me wrong I have a degree of sympathy but life isn't fair and the world does not own shop owners a living. It's called the free market and its a jungle out there.
24

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 17:17:13
#20
God I hate repeating myslef.
The £500 million comes form central taxation and thus is a cost to the UK taxpayer, not Scotland and not Edinburgh. 500 mill divided by a UK population of circa 60million is £8.33 per person, or call it £35 quid for the nuclear family. We are all in our small and same way paying for the Olympics etc etc.
Edinburgh council ax payers will be hit with cash the council can raise for the tram project by developer contributions or the sale of assets. That the figure you have to worry about along with whether or not the tram meets its operating costs.
Are you aware that the Glasgow Subway recives a subsidy from the Glasgow taxpayers and capital provision through the Scottish Government. Why no outcry in the west!!!!!!! And they are talking about extending a system that needs a subsidy to run it!!!
25

LouW,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 17:41:33
Scallywag, re post #21, I didn't say that having to cross the road works was the only difference, although it is the one which concerns me most, nor did I say that I was loyal to Leith shops, merely that it is a very convenient place to shop as well as use bank, post office, etc. Yes, I am still shopping in Leith, albeit very carefully - if I or my family happen to be squashed by a bus (with whom I have huge sympathy having to drive in this fiasco) or hit by oncoming traffic when attempting to negotiate the roadworks it might just be more than a 'little inconvenient'.

Also, yes, you are right that if people are avoiding Leith they will be shopping elsewhere but this story is about the Leith traders so that is really quite irrelevant to their current situation.
26

Ian Ross,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 17:42:34
Scrap the trams now! How much more money is going to be wasted on this stupid idea/brainstorm ? All the work is doing is inconveniencing folk and costing shops money. There will be NO benefit to the people of Edinburgh. We got rid of trams in 1956, why do we suddenly need them in 2008 ? Because some morons thought of an idea to cost us millions, that's why.
27

rs,

in ma house 02/05/2008 18:14:20
Mmmmm..Didn't TIE and The Council say that there would be NO taxpayers money used to finance the Tramline.

And here we are looking at 100% rates relief.

Which is effectivly TAXPAYERS money.

The Tram Project gets more interesting by the day.
28

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 18:42:13
Scallyway, while your consistent defence of this scheme is in some ways admirable I would really ask that you do what it appears that none of the politicians who voted for this scheme did and actually read the business case. Which is so flawed that it is amazing that TIE had the gall to submit it. Were you aware, as an example, that the incremental revenue expected to be generated by the tram line is ZERO POINT SIX PERCENT PER ANNUM of costs. Take away the costs and the tram line has a net negative cost FOR EVER!!!!! Yet still it was voted through.

This whole scheme is a farce. TIE is, in the Scottish engineering community, is a widely discredited organisation yet some of our politicians think this mob, with no track record of success, is to be trusted with hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers money.
29

Euan,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 21:44:31
I have been commenting on this tram topic since it started being reported on these pages quite some time ago.

In this time, my opinion that this tram LINE should never have been concieved has changed not one bit, not one bit.

I'm no clairvoyant, but all the things that I thought would happen if this silly project were to actually go ahead would appear to be coming true.

Local businesses being severely affected was obvious, and just look at the incredible dispespect the perpretators of this shambolic project are showing to the local traders - it's sickening, nothing more, nothing less.

Now look at this fine City, a historic, well-built, gem of a City, a capital City which is now being carved-up and scarred forever.

Look at it's residents, the very people who make this City great, their everyday lives are being inconvenienced beyond belief, not only now but in the decades to come.

It was a very sad day for Edinburgh when the SNP were forced to concede in this tram battle, a very sad day indeed.

The only real way this town can be saved from financial oblivion and physical destruction is for this disgraceful tram project to halted with immediate effect.

Not only this, but Scotland itself can then spare itself from a world-wide taunting for the squandering of HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of pounds of valuable public money,







 

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